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Parents and Guardians Forum>Just Turned 3 Cleaning Up Urine?
dansmail26 11:33 AM 10-25-2012
My daughter just turned 3. She started daycare in September. She has not had any bathroom accidents since once this summer walking at a county fair, she is toilet trained very well.

She did have a urine accident at lunch today. The provider then made her clean it up. Also, as it has never been needed in her bag I neglected to include extra pantsthough there was extra underwear, they put her in her underwear and her coat for the rest of the day, I was surprised they didn't have any extra shorts or sweatpants there.

It's a small (maybe 8-10 kids) husband/wife daycare. The husband appears very strict, which I noticed but haven't really minded until today.

Should I be upset about her having to clean this up?
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Michael 11:37 AM 10-25-2012
Welcome to the Daycare.com Forum! I upgraded your status. You can post freely now.
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lovemykidstoo 11:41 AM 10-25-2012
I would be very upset if my daughter had to clean it up I can see them putting a coat on her if you didnt' include extra pants. I have all of my parents bring extra clothes to stay here. It is highly possible that they wouldn't have extra clothes there. I would definately be sure to put those in her bag. Did they at least wash out the pants and dry them so she could wear the pants? I have done that before.
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dansmail26 11:42 AM 10-25-2012
Thanks. Really upset about this one!
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lovemykidstoo 11:48 AM 10-25-2012
I don't blame you. I would find another daycare and contact licensing. Is this a licensed daycare? I think that this is ridiculous.
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dansmail26 12:03 PM 10-25-2012
Yes they are licensed.
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Heidi 12:04 PM 10-25-2012
I would say that it would depend highly on the circumstances:

The cleaning up bit...I have asked children to HELP do this if they had a lot of accidents and were really, truly potty-trained. You know, the kiddo who is too busy playing, doing the potty dance, then gives in, then pees on the floor because she was being obstinant. Now, that would be a rare exception, and like I said, I would be supervising/helping. I would not be yelling...just "oh, well, now we have to clean this up".

As for the pants...again, it would depend.

I have all the children keep a couple changes of clothes here, and I have a few things I bought at a resale as extras.

However, If I remind a parent over and over that the child needs something, then they don't have it when needed, I'd be reluctant to put something of mine on them, because it wouldn't come back.

I have one family now that just cant EVER seem to send their children in shoes that actually fit. Every time they come (once a week), one of the children has a shoe issue, usually shoes too small. We walk and play outside every day. Luckily, I have extras, or we'd ALL be stuck!
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sharlan 12:15 PM 10-25-2012
If it was an accident, then I would be upset.

I would be upset about the no clothes, though. It is your responsibility to provide extra clothing. You never know when it will be needed.

I have one child that used to intentionally pee on the floor when he got mad. I would make him help me clean it up because it was intentional.
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dansmail26 12:16 PM 10-25-2012
Heidi - Yes, I agree with what you are saying but in this case she's never had an accident there (last accident was months ago walking at a county fair) and we bring a bag every day that normally has extra clothes in it but has never been needed.
The strict father has complained to us that she takes too long eating lunch. Also, she has skipped breakfast before and when we asked about it his answer was she is 3, she should be able to decide if she wants it or not!
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dansmail26 12:19 PM 10-25-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
I would be very upset if my daughter had to clean it up I can see them putting a coat on her if you didnt' include extra pants. I have all of my parents bring extra clothes to stay here. It is highly possible that they wouldn't have extra clothes there. I would definately be sure to put those in her bag. Did they at least wash out the pants and dry them so she could wear the pants? I have done that before.
Yes, we just totally forgot extra pants today, since they have never been needed they were easy to forget. This happened at lunch, so they just put her down for her nap in underwear and coat.
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dansmail26 12:23 PM 10-25-2012
Just picked her up now (early). They told me that at 3 years old if they are old enough to say they need to go to the bathroom they are old enough to clean it up. They did make her clean herself and the floor.
Not sure she will be going back tomorrow!
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Kaddidle Care 12:34 PM 10-25-2012
I don't think I've ever made a child clean up their own urine. For one thing, as a provider, you want it cleaned up properly and a 3 year old would probably just spread it around more.

That's just wrong IMHO. They'll feel pretty bad if the child has a UTI which could have caused the accident. I would suggest a little chat with your provider.

As far as the extra clothes - do check your contract. Most providers require at least 1 set of spare clothes. It's not just in case of an incident like this. Different types of play things - shaving cream art, water toys, etc. may necessitate a 2nd set of clothing.
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dansmail26 12:39 PM 10-25-2012
Definitely know we wrong about not having extra clothes in her bag, it was just an accident (like the urine - lol). Luckily there was extra underwear in the bag.
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Willow 01:00 PM 10-25-2012
No she should not have had to clean up urine.

And no she shouldn't have been left in her coat and underwear. If no clothes were available they could have called you to come get her. As much as you should have had clothes there they should have reminded you to keep a spare set on hand. I have cubbies for all my daycare kiddos and every one of them regardless of age is required to keep an extra set of clothes. What happens if they spill a glass of milk at breakfast? Get paint all over themselves or get filthy outside?


The fact that their response was so uncompassionate and barbaric (seriously people thought like that in the 60's, it's not normal or encouraged to be so hard edged in society today about toilet training).

If she were my child I would NOT be bringing her back.
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MyAngels 01:12 PM 10-25-2012
I agree with the others - no way would I have one of my daycare kids clean up urine. As far having her wear her coat - I realize it's your responsibility to provide clothing, but I always keep a couple of extra pieces of clothing in different sizes just in case something like this happens. I've also been known to wash a child's soiled clothing if I have time before the end of the day.

I'd be asking your child about the circumstances surrounding this accident as well. I'm sure I'm reading too much into it, but what came to mind after reading your posts was that this "strict" provider may have made her wait to go to the restroom until after lunch and she couldn't hold it.
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dansmail26 01:17 PM 10-25-2012
He said she could have went, but I have doubts as he is always complaining she eats too slow.

Does anyone know did he break any daycare codes in NY doing this? Otherwise we owe him a 2 weeks notice to quit which I really don't want to pay.
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Willow 01:31 PM 10-25-2012
Originally Posted by MyAngels:

I'd be asking your child about the circumstances surrounding this accident as well. I'm sure I'm reading too much into it, but what came to mind after reading your posts was that this "strict" provider may have made her wait to go to the restroom until after lunch and she couldn't hold it.

This is where my mind went too.......



OP - you can call up your local licensing department and ask if there were any violations with how this was handled. Go online, look up your county human services and daycare licensing should have a number listed.

Doesn't hurt to inquire just to make sure.


If I were you I'd pull her immediately and if they demand payment for the two weeks I'd tell them to take me to court. There is no way a judge will enforce such a policy if there were valid reasons concerning her care and safety.

If you wait however and pull her at a later date you will not be able to use this incident as an excuse later on. Bring her back for even a day and they'll be able to use that as an argument that you were ok with what they did....because who would bring their child back if had concerns over actual maltreatment?
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dansmail26 01:59 PM 10-25-2012
I found a NY regulation which he definitely violated-

416.9(h) Methods of discipline,
interaction or toilet training which
frighten, demean or humiliate a child
are prohibited.
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Blackcat31 02:04 PM 10-25-2012
Originally Posted by dansmail26:
I found a NY regulation which he definitely violated-

416.9(h) Methods of discipline,
interaction or toilet training which
frighten, demean or humiliate a child
are prohibited.
I agree with other providers that said they would not have made a child clean up urine, HOWEVER, cleaning up after ones self is neither demeaning, frightening or humiliated. IMHO.

It really isn't any different than helping clean up any other mess they made.

As a child care provider, I would NEVER make a child clean up the urine. I would have them take off their soiled clothing and redress on their own though.

As a parent, I would maybe have my own child help clean up their own urine but that is as a parent. Whole different ball game.

But I still don't think having a child clean up urine breaks the above rule.

I think Willow gave some good advice. Pull her immediately and do not return. File a complaint with your licensing agency.
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itlw8 02:04 PM 10-25-2012
wait today at lunch she had an accident and had no clothes they dressed her in what she had and called you ( so you could bring some clothes. They put her down for a nap and you waited until 2:30 to pick her up even though you knew she had no clothes in her bag?

Well that one is against you.

cleaning up the mess... not happy about that one but not being there not sure of what happened.

and the she skipped breakfast.. well they are right if she does not want to eat they can not force her to do so.That id a big no no. We serve the food the child decides if they will eat it.

but you do not trust them so give notice and find other care for tomorrow.
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itlw8 02:09 PM 10-25-2012
Originally Posted by Willow:
. If no clothes were available they could have called you to come get her.
sounds like they did mom posted at 1:30 and picked up at 2:30 so they did call when it happened
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clep 02:15 PM 10-25-2012
Originally Posted by dansmail26:
I found a NY regulation which he definitely violated-

416.9(h) Methods of discipline,
interaction or toilet training which
frighten, demean or humiliate a child
are prohibited.
While I agree it was not okay for your child to clean up her own urine, I do not see how it was frightening, demeaning or humiliating.

I agree that if there wasn't an issue with the child in the past, I would wonder about uti or something else first. I would call you to bring your child clothes and would let you know not to forget again. I would also have the child hand me the needed items to be able to take the opportunity to learn how to clean something up.

If it was my child, I would terminate on the spot but would leave payment with the provider if it was prepaid already. I would not ask for payment back as the chances of me getting it are slim to none without court action.

Also what does the contract you signed say? If the contract did not address this issue, I would send an email letting the provider know I was terminating care immediately in hopes of her sending something back in the form of an admission of some kind. At least then if court is required you have a leg to stand on as well as for licencing.

I would also call licencing immediately and let them know the issue. They will take care of it from there.
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Willow 02:17 PM 10-25-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:

But I still don't think having a child clean up urine breaks the above rule.

I agree.


I'd call and ask about a child specifically being required to clean up their own urine or feces by a provider. I can't imagine that would be considered sanitary or age appropriate.
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Blackcat31 02:25 PM 10-25-2012
Originally Posted by itlw8:
sounds like they did mom posted at 1:30 and picked up at 2:30 so they did call when it happened
I would assume OP picked up and then drove home before posting an update. Unless she is a die-hard and posted from her phone while driving home.
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itlw8 02:42 PM 10-25-2012
but either way if she knew they had to have called when it happened to let her know there were no clothes not saying Mom was wrong just they did notify her when it happened.
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dansmail26 03:30 PM 10-25-2012
Originally Posted by itlw8:
wait today at lunch she had an accident and had no clothes they dressed her in what she had and called you ( so you could bring some clothes. They put her down for a nap and you waited until 2:30 to pick her up even though you knew she had no clothes in her bag?

Well that one is against you.

cleaning up the mess... not happy about that one but not being there not sure of what happened.

and the she skipped breakfast.. well they are right if she does not want to eat they can not force her to do so.That id a big no no. We serve the food the child decides if they will eat it.

but you do not trust them so give notice and find other care for tomorrow.
It happened at noon, they called my wives cell at work and left a voice mail which she didn't get until 3 (she's a nurse and very busy), they called me at 2 - I am disabled so I got grandma to pick her up when she woke up from the nap at 3. Normally she gets picked up after 4.

Disagree about breakfast with you, it is the most important meal of the day. A 3 year old playing with her friends will choose to play instead of eat many times. Three year olds need guidance, she isn't mature enough to decide to keep playing instead of eating.
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dansmail26 03:38 PM 10-25-2012
Originally Posted by clep:
While I agree it was not okay for your child to clean up her own urine, I do not see how it was frightening, demeaning or humiliating.

......
Most people I talked to disagree with you on this one. I did talk to someone on the state hotline who actually led me to this regulation who thought it fit perfectly.
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dansmail26 03:44 PM 10-25-2012
Originally Posted by itlw8:
but either way if she knew they had to have called when it happened to let her know there were no clothes not saying Mom was wrong just they did notify her when it happened.
Two things - I'm not sure what you professionals would have done but they called and left a voice mail at noon, since they didn't get an answer they called the second number 2 hours later. Would you have waited that long?

Second thing is the lack of clothes to me wasn't a super problem since as soon as they eat they nap and she did have underwear. I was surprised they don't keep some emergency clothes there though for parents who do mess up and forget a second outfit as we did.
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youretooloud 03:48 PM 10-25-2012
Holy Cow.. I try not to even look mad (even when I am) for potty accidents. (unless it's just a constant issue) I DO make them change their own clothes though. At age three, I expect them to dress themselves. I throw a towel on the floor and wipe it up, hand them a bag for the wet clothes, and their dry clothes, and they change themselves. If it's all backwards and inside out, i'm fine with that.

Then while they are changing their clothes, I go clean up the mess. No more discussion of it at all...when it's over, it's over.


I don't have the parents bring extra clothes very often. I tend to lose them. So, I just mark all my extras with my name and send them home like that.

I don't have a problem with a three year old in skivvies all day though.... these kids are in undies or diapers very often. But, if it was chilly out, I can't see making him or her be cold.
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dansmail26 03:55 PM 10-25-2012
Originally Posted by itlw8:
wait today at lunch she had an accident and had no clothes they dressed her in what she had and called you ( so you could bring some clothes. They put her down for a nap and you waited until 2:30 to pick her up even though you knew she had no clothes in her bag?

Well that one is against you.

cleaning up the mess... not happy about that one but not being there not sure of what happened.

and the she skipped breakfast.. well they are right if she does not want to eat they can not force her to do so.That id a big no no. We serve the food the child decides if they will eat it.

but you do not trust them so give notice and find other care for tomorrow.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Willow View Post
. If no clothes were available they could have called you to come get her.
sounds like they did mom posted at 1:30 and picked up at 2:30 so they did call when it happened

Since I am getting some blame, here's the timeline -
It happened around noon
They called mom at work and left voice mail
They called me at 2 est since they didn't get response from mom
I arranged ride as soon as her nap would be over (3 est)
I started researching if this was 'normal' actions.
My first post was at 2:30 est!

Yes, we did forget the extra clothes today!!!
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Cat Herder 03:55 PM 10-25-2012
Originally Posted by dansmail26:
Disagree about breakfast with you, it is the most important meal of the day. A 3 year old playing with her friends will choose to play instead of eat many times. Three year olds need guidance, she isn't mature enough to decide to keep playing instead of eating.
I think you are misunderstanding.

We LEGALLY cannot force a child to eat.

We may only OFFER the food, the child chooses to eat or not.

Meals are to be stress free.
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Heidi 03:57 PM 10-25-2012
I'd like to clarify...when I said that I would have the child help clean up, it was more like...."you hold the paper towels"...not the child actually CLEANING the urine off the floor.

As for the breakfast thing, everyone sits at the table here at meal times, but I do not force anyone to eat. I might encourage them a little, but I don't beg, cojole, or force.

If they don't they wait for the next meal. I would not let a child continue playing while the others eat. This is not a buffet restaurant, come on over and eat if you feel like it...

The clothes thing, I still think it's not a deal breaker...I'd let that go.


I'm guessing that the man of the daycare there has a blunt communication style.
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daycarediva 04:59 PM 10-25-2012
I am a licensed provider in NY.

I have kids help clean up EVERY mess they make. It is more along the lines of "Miss **** needs another paper towel. Oh, did we miss a spot?" etc. I had a dcb have an accident yesterday for the first time in months and he ran into the bathroom and gabbed the paper towels and was asking me to help HIM. Same goes for spills of food/drink and toys as well. I would want to know what EXACTLY they meant by she cleaned it up by herself.

All of the kids sit together at meal times. It IS up to the child if they will eat. I CANNOT force a child to eat. I can encourage, but I won't go beyond that.
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daycarediva 05:02 PM 10-25-2012
I probably wouldn't have even called you to come early (?). I really don't think it warranted that. I would have called you if she didn't have pants to go home in.

I REQUIRE my parents to leave a change of clothes in a cubby. If a child doesn't have those clothes, it then falls on me. I have kids in sizes 12m-8/10 kids. I do NOT have spares in each of those sizes, in each appropriate seasonal item, etc. That, imo, is unrealistic to expect of a provider.
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daycarediva 05:05 PM 10-25-2012
Originally Posted by dansmail26:
It happened at noon, they called my wives cell at work and left a voice mail which she didn't get until 3 (she's a nurse and very busy), they called me at 2 - I am disabled so I got grandma to pick her up when she woke up from the nap at 3. Normally she gets picked up after 4.

Disagree about breakfast with you, it is the most important meal of the day. A 3 year old playing with her friends will choose to play instead of eat many times. Three year olds need guidance, she isn't mature enough to decide to keep playing instead of eating.
I would have just made sure she had clothes to go home in. I fail to understand why she had to be picked up early.

Disagree or not, I cannot LEGALLY make a child eat, ever. I DO have all of the kids sit at the table together until we are finished with each meal time.

Here, missing breakfast isn't a HUGE deal as snack is right around the corner at 9:30 and consists of a fruit, grain and milk (same components as breakfast) so she would have just eaten MORE at snack.
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lovemykidstoo 05:20 PM 10-25-2012
Originally Posted by dansmail26:
Yes, we just totally forgot extra pants today, since they have never been needed they were easy to forget. This happened at lunch, so they just put her down for her nap in underwear and coat.
Do they have a dryer in this daycare? I have had this happen and I have washed out the pants before and thrown them in the dryer so that in 30 minutes the child could have pants again. Sometimes for whatever reason there isn't a change of clothes there, you improvise.
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lovemykidstoo 05:21 PM 10-25-2012
Originally Posted by dansmail26:
Just picked her up now (early). They told me that at 3 years old if they are old enough to say they need to go to the bathroom they are old enough to clean it up. They did make her clean herself and the floor.
Not sure she will be going back tomorrow!
Not sure? I would tell them to stick it for sure. That is just outrageous.
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daycarediva 05:26 PM 10-25-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
Do they have a dryer in this daycare? I have had this happen and I have washed out the pants before and thrown them in the dryer so that in 30 minutes the child could have pants again. Sometimes for whatever reason there isn't a change of clothes there, you improvise.
devil's advocate here- for santary reasons I can't clean out soiled clothing. According to licensing I have to double bag it and send it right home.
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dansmail26 05:35 PM 10-25-2012
- On the breakfast thing, I totally agree with you all about not forcing them to eat, and I agree with you about sitting around the breakfast table. At this place if she doesn't want to eat he doesn't make her come to the table - that's my problem. She loves breakfast at home, including the same cereal they serve. If she was at the table they wouldn't have to force her to eat.

- They might have been calling just to bring pants to her, but we knew she wouldn't want to sit there all afternoon in her undies.

- They didn't offer to dry the pants, they just sent them home (without even being rinsed) in a plastic bag.

- No problem if they had her assist in the cleanup, but that didn't happen.

- If there was clothes she does dress herself all the time.


Please remember though, the clothes thing is a minor one to me. The lack of encouragement (not forcing her) to eat breakfast (even after asking them to encourage) bothers me, but this cleaning up her own urine really bugs me.

I am all for fostering independence in kids, but this guy seems to think 3 years olds should be as smart as he is! (maybe they are though, lol)
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youretooloud 05:35 PM 10-25-2012
Originally Posted by dansmail26:
Disagree about breakfast with you, it is the most important meal of the day. A 3 year old playing with her friends will choose to play instead of eat many times. Three year olds need guidance, she isn't mature enough to decide to keep playing instead of eating.

We make the food. We put it in front of them. They eat it or don't eat it. That is not our problem. Our job is to prepare it, her job is to eat it.
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lovemykidstoo 05:36 PM 10-25-2012
[quote=dansmail26;277958]Two things - I'm not sure what you professionals would have done but they called and left a voice mail at noon, since they didn't get an answer they called the second number 2 hours later. Would you have waited that long?

Second thing is the lack of clothes to me wasn't a super problem since as soon as they eat they nap and she did have underwear. I was surprised they don't keep some emergency clothes there though for parents who do mess up and forget a second outfit as we did.[/QUOTE]

I do have to say about the item in bold that to expect a provider to have the appropriate sizes of extra clothing for each child can be a stretch. It is the parents responsibility and I totally understand how it can happen that you didn't have any in the bag. I have had this problem before and sometimes I will swap someone else's extra clothing, wash the soiled clothing and redress. I think that out of this whole situation, the actual pants is the least of the problem. The biggest problem in my eyes is the actual cleaning up of the urine.
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youretooloud 05:37 PM 10-25-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
Do they have a dryer in this daycare? I have had this happen and I have washed out the pants before and thrown them in the dryer so that in 30 minutes the child could have pants again. Sometimes for whatever reason there isn't a change of clothes there, you improvise.
Even if I rinsed them, I wouldn't put wet pee pants in my clean dryer. I wouldn't even re-dress her in them until they had been washed.
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lovemykidstoo 05:44 PM 10-25-2012
Originally Posted by youretooloud:
Even if I rinsed them, I wouldn't put wet pee pants in my clean dryer. I wouldn't even re-dress her in them until they had been washed.
No not just rinsed "washed out". I have a quick wash on my washer and can seriously have 1 piece of clothing washed and dried in 30 minutes. A little pair of pants would take no time at all. Even if you hand washed them and then threw them in the dryer it's better than letting her run around in underwear in October.
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Cat Herder 05:54 PM 10-25-2012
Originally Posted by dansmail26:
- At this place if she doesn't want to eat he doesn't make her come to the table - that's my problem.
OK, yeah, that is weird, IMHO.

Typically everyone lines up, washes hands and sits at the table politely waiting to be served. It is a loosely timed thing. After 30 minutes, here, if they have not eaten they are asked to get down from the table.

It is VERY rare and typically I'd know the reason why, have expected it and have a plan for a larger snack (antibiotics, constipation, sinus congestion, etc).

As for making her clean up urine, that is also unusual to me unless it is a recurrent/behavioral thing (I understand you said it was not in your case), IYKWIM? I have seen it in the older preschoolers who will occasionally use toileting as a control method (Example: a 4yo boy who would urinate across the wall to see it run in lines down to the floor ).

As part of their Discipline Plan (agreed to by parents) they are being taught self-help skills and would be given gloves, mop and a bucket. It would not be done in front of other kids, typically one provider stays inside while the other takes the rest of the kids outdoors.

Personally, I'd just have laundered the pants, but I have that ability. My State has no regulation against it. Each State is different.
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dansmail26 06:51 PM 10-25-2012
Yes, I agree with most everything that has been written here. You can't make them eat, but you can make them come to the table. He just accepts the answer of no thanks. Sometimes I wonder if he is just happy he doesn't have to supply food when they say no.
He also complains she eats too slow so he doesn't give her as much as the others at lunch....
Obviously he talks too much or we wouldn't know all this.
She's staying home tomorrow and we are having a short conversation with him saying it's because we are mad about what happened with the accident and deciding what to do. When we calm down we will make a decision as to what to do with her next week.
Thanks for the advice and sharing your experiences.
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dansmail26 06:58 PM 10-25-2012
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
OK, yeah, that is weird, IMHO.

Typically everyone lines up, washes hands and sits at the table politely waiting to be served. It is a loosely timed thing. After 30 minutes, here, if they have not eaten they are asked to get down from the table.

It is VERY rare and typically I'd know the reason why, have expected it and have a plan for a larger snack (antibiotics, constipation, sinus congestion, etc).

As for making her clean up urine, that is also unusual to me unless it is a recurrent/behavioral thing (I understand you said it was not in your case), IYKWIM? I have seen it in the older preschoolers who will occasionally use toileting as a control method (Example: a 4yo boy who would urinate across the wall to see it run in lines down to the floor ).

As part of their Discipline Plan (agreed to by parents) they are being taught self-help skills and would be given gloves, mop and a bucket. It would not be done in front of other kids, typically one provider stays inside while the other takes the rest of the kids outdoors.

Personally, I'd just have laundered the pants, but I have that ability. My State has no regulation against it. Each State is different.
I'm sure it wasn't a behavior issue (but I don't understand IYKWIM!) as one reason they were mad (and gramma was told this when she picked her up) was that after she peed she didn't tell them, she obviously was very embarrassed. And again, we can count on one hand the number of accidents she's had, we were blessed with how easy it was to toilet train her. I'll bet since he yells at her to not take so long eating she didn't want to take a bathroom break in the middle of lunch.
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lovemykidstoo 07:35 PM 10-25-2012
For me personally, I don't care what reason the child had an accident, I would NEVER have a 3 yr old clean it up. I would most definately be calling licensing and asking them if that is acceptable in your state. No matter what they said though, i would not by any means take my child back there. You have how many signs so far. The cleanup, the yelling if she's not eating fast enough, the not giving her breakfast ect and those are only the things you know about. Imagine the things you dont' know about.
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Kaddidle Care 07:37 PM 10-25-2012
IYKWIM = If you know what I mean
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Cat Herder 07:41 PM 10-25-2012
Originally Posted by dansmail26:
I'm sure it wasn't a behavior issue (but I don't understand IYKWIM!) as one reason they were mad (and gramma was told this when she picked her up) was that after she peed she didn't tell them, she obviously was very embarrassed. And again, we can count on one hand the number of accidents she's had, we were blessed with how easy it was to toilet train her. I'll bet since he yells at her to not take so long eating she didn't want to take a bathroom break in the middle of lunch.
Sorry, IYKWIM = If you know what I mean.

I was stating that a Behavioral Discipline Plan did not make sense in your daughters case. It would have been discussed several times before that plan was set up between you and the provider.
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dansmail26 07:55 PM 10-25-2012
Thanks all!
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lovemykidstoo 05:54 AM 10-26-2012
Keep us posted on what happens today. Good luck
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SunshineMama 06:03 AM 10-26-2012
Originally Posted by dansmail26:
My daughter just turned 3. She started daycare in September. She has not had any bathroom accidents since once this summer walking at a county fair, she is toilet trained very well.

She did have a urine accident at lunch today. The provider then made her clean it up. Also, as it has never been needed in her bag I neglected to include extra pantsthough there was extra underwear, they put her in her underwear and her coat for the rest of the day, I was surprised they didn't have any extra shorts or sweatpants there.

It's a small (maybe 8-10 kids) husband/wife daycare. The husband appears very strict, which I noticed but haven't really minded until today.

Should I be upset about her having to clean this up?
I did not read all of the other responses, but I do not think that it is bad at all to teach her the natural consequences of her actions. If you make a mess, it needs to be cleaned up. My 1 year old helps to clean up her pee pee accidents at home if she has them. It is not traumatic at all and she understands she made a mess and is happy to help clean it up.

I would be more concerned about the child not having any pants on, but I think that depends on the child. I know my oldest at 3 would feel badly about only having underwear on, but my youngest wouldnt care if she were naked running around. The provider should have called the parent and let them know that the child has no pants. However, it should be the job of the parent to always be prepared. I send my daughter to preschool everyday with an extra set of clothes, just incase. It isn't the providers job to provide clothes for your child.
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JenNJ 06:07 AM 10-26-2012
My biggest concern is the yelling which I find to be shaming. Which could very well be why your dd had an accident. She may have been afraid to ask if she could use the bathroom.

I will say that once a child is old enough to wear underpants in my daycare, they are responsible in part for accidents. I have the child remove the soiled clothes, put them into a bag to be sent home (I do not rinse or launder soiled clothing as it poses health risks to others in the home and daycare), wipe their body off with wipes, and change into fresh clothes. I then have them assist me in the clean up by using paper towels to mop up the mess.

I will repeat what I said on the other forum:
It's not a big deal. My dcps actually appreciate it because when an accident happens at home, the kids get out of the wet clothes and begin cleaning up after themselves. No meltdowns, no freak outs -- just calm kids cleaning up after an accident.

The way I see it is that spilled juice and a pee accident are no different. In both cases the child wasn't aware of their body. Whether it is a wild hand motion that spills the drink or waiting a little too long to get to the bathroom, an accident is an accident. It happens. The important thing is that the child has the confidence AFTER the accident to know that accidents happen, it isn't a big deal, but we are responsible for ourselves even if the result was unintentional.

It isn't shaming or humiliating, it is part of being a human. Humans make mistakes. What is important is that we learn from them and try not to make the same ones over and over. I feel that taking part in the clean up instills responsibility in the child and makes them a better person.
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SunshineMama 06:11 AM 10-26-2012
Well after reading everyone else's responses I can see how this situation can be perceived negatively. I suppose everything needs to be considered on an individual basis and details need to be taken into consideration.

When my daughter helps, of course I help her too and we make it a loving, learning experience. There's no degradation or humiliation at all. I think if the provider was loving and kind and said something like, "uh oh, it looks like you had an accident, let's get you all cleaned up, you can help with..." That's not bad. It is loving and learning and a teaching opportunity.

I think the perception that others are reading is that the provider angrily stood over the child and forced them to clean up her own urine as punishment in a bad manner- which I would not definitely not agree with.

This all being said, I have never made a dck clean up after themselves at my house, mostly because it's just easier if I do it myself.
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dansmail26 08:45 AM 10-26-2012
Originally Posted by SunshineMama:
I did not read all of the other responses, but I do not think that it is bad at all to teach her the natural consequences of her actions. If you make a mess, it needs to be cleaned up. My 1 year old helps to clean up her pee pee accidents at home if she has them. It is not traumatic at all and she understands she made a mess and is happy to help clean it up.

I would be more concerned about the child not having any pants on, but I think that depends on the child. I know my oldest at 3 would feel badly about only having underwear on, but my youngest wouldnt care if she were naked running around. The provider should have called the parent and let them know that the child has no pants. However, it should be the job of the parent to always be prepared. I send my daughter to preschool everyday with an extra set of clothes, just incase. It isn't the providers job to provide clothes for your child.
I don't think kids that young know the sanitary issues of cleaning up bodily fluids. Cleaning up toys and other messes, fine - body fluids - NO.

As has been stated many times it was a mistake that extra clothes weren;t there - but it seems like having some emergency shorts or sweat pants around isn't a bad idea. Size wouldn't matter, they don't need to fit exact in emergencies.
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dansmail26 08:48 AM 10-26-2012
Originally Posted by JenNJ:
My biggest concern is the yelling which I find to be shaming. Which could very well be why your dd had an accident. She may have been afraid to ask if she could use the bathroom.

I will say that once a child is old enough to wear underpants in my daycare, they are responsible in part for accidents. I have the child remove the soiled clothes, put them into a bag to be sent home (I do not rinse or launder soiled clothing as it poses health risks to others in the home and daycare), wipe their body off with wipes, and change into fresh clothes. I then have them assist me in the clean up by using paper towels to mop up the mess.

I will repeat what I said on the other forum:
It's not a big deal. My dcps actually appreciate it because when an accident happens at home, the kids get out of the wet clothes and begin cleaning up after themselves. No meltdowns, no freak outs -- just calm kids cleaning up after an accident.

The way I see it is that spilled juice and a pee accident are no different. In both cases the child wasn't aware of their body. Whether it is a wild hand motion that spills the drink or waiting a little too long to get to the bathroom, an accident is an accident. It happens. The important thing is that the child has the confidence AFTER the accident to know that accidents happen, it isn't a big deal, but we are responsible for ourselves even if the result was unintentional.

It isn't shaming or humiliating, it is part of being a human. Humans make mistakes. What is important is that we learn from them and try not to make the same ones over and over. I feel that taking part in the clean up instills responsibility in the child and makes them a better person.
Sounds like a responsible answer.. having a child hand paper towels over or something is not a bad idea. Handing towels to a 3 year old and telling them to clean is not a good idea, imho. The fact that she didn't even tell them until she had to get up from the table showed she was afraid of his reaction.
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dansmail26 08:51 AM 10-26-2012
No news today. Called in and just said she wasn't going to be there. He asked if she was sick and we said no.
More next week when we figure out where she's going.
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SunshineMama 09:04 AM 10-26-2012
Originally Posted by dansmail26:
I don't think kids that young know the sanitary issues of cleaning up bodily fluids. Cleaning up toys and other messes, fine - body fluids - NO.

As has been stated many times it was a mistake that extra clothes weren;t there - but it seems like having some emergency shorts or sweat pants around isn't a bad idea. Size wouldn't matter, they don't need to fit exact in emergencies.
You're right, children don't innately know the sanitary issues. Which is why, as adults, we need to take the time to teach them. It is no different than teaching them to cough or sneeze into their elbows, or to wash their hands before eating, after blowing noses, and bathroom usage. My 1 year old knows that if she has an accident, she will help mommy take a cloth and clean it up, and then we go to wash hands. We talk about staying clean and dry. I go back in afterwards myself and sanitize- she's too young to use chemicals. But she knows the process because I taught her. Kids learn by mistakes, and parents and care providers need to take each opportunity to help them learn.

I personally keep a set of spare clothes for all of the kids that the parents provide, and I have even let a child borrow one of my child's pants before. But that is going above and beyond, as a courtesy to the families, and should be considered an extra special nice gesture. Unfortunately, as providers, we all have been burned too many times by doing extra, and providing things like extra clothes to the parents, which never get returned. (Not saying you are that way-but it happens a lot). If you sent your child to a preschool and your child had an accident, the preschool would not launder your child's clothing, or provide extra clothes for your child to wear. They would just call you to come and pick up your child.

I guess all I am saying is that teaching a child to clean up after themselves is an important life skill. If your child was helping clean up a little bit of her own pee pee with the assistance of a caring adult, and then was taught to wash her hands, etc, then that's really not bad. Most kids enjoy being big helpers and learning self-help skills.
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daycaremum 10:02 AM 10-26-2012
Originally Posted by dansmail26:
Two things - I'm not sure what you professionals would have done but they called and left a voice mail at noon, since they didn't get an answer they called the second number 2 hours later. Would you have waited that long?

Second thing is the lack of clothes to me wasn't a super problem since as soon as they eat they nap and she did have underwear. I was surprised they don't keep some emergency clothes there though for parents who do mess up and forget a second outfit as we did.
For a child that wets themselves and has no spare clothes, as long as it was warm in the house, I wouldn't have called the second number right away either, it wasn't an emergency. If she left you a message, she likely went about her day with the kids, I think you said there were about 8 kids in care.

And I also do not keep spare clothes for the kids. I ask all parents to leave a full, weather appropriate change of clothing (shirt, pants, underwear, socks) no matter their age and I put their clothes in a ziploc bag and they remain here. If they are soiled I remind the parents every single night to replace them until they send in clean ones. A spare set of clothes is VERY important.

I likely wouldn't have made a three year old clean up their pee, but it could have been as simple as they gave her some paper towel and let her do the initial clean up in order to help clean the mess she made (I would do that if they spilled their drink, or water for painting), and then the adults cleaned it up properly after. I would ask the child to take off their soiled clothing and put them in a bag which I held open for her, and ask her to wipe herself with a wipe (to help me clean her up) and redress herself.

As for not wanting to eat snack, yes, I have had kids refuse to come to eat (they all eat together so it's not like they get to keep playing with their friends, she'd be playing by herself while the others ate). I give them the choice at snack time to teach them the logical consequence of being hungry by lunchtime.

All that being said, if you're not happy there, move on, but I don't think your provider did anything wrong, just things you don't like. If you signed a contract that you aren't owed any refunds, then just move along quietly and start anew somewhere else.
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lovemykidstoo 10:27 AM 10-26-2012
Originally Posted by SunshineMama:
I did not read all of the other responses, but I do not think that it is bad at all to teach her the natural consequences of her actions. If you make a mess, it needs to be cleaned up. My 1 year old helps to clean up her pee pee accidents at home if she has them. It is not traumatic at all and she understands she made a mess and is happy to help clean it up.

I would be more concerned about the child not having any pants on, but I think that depends on the child. I know my oldest at 3 would feel badly about only having underwear on, but my youngest wouldnt care if she were naked running around. The provider should have called the parent and let them know that the child has no pants. However, it should be the job of the parent to always be prepared. I send my daughter to preschool everyday with an extra set of clothes, just incase. It isn't the providers job to provide clothes for your child.
Your 1 year old is potty trained?
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MarinaVanessa 10:29 AM 10-26-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
Your 1 year old is potty trained?
Not if she is still having accidents.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 10:32 AM 10-26-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I agree with other providers that said they would not have made a child clean up urine, HOWEVER, cleaning up after ones self is neither demeaning, frightening or humiliated. IMHO.

It really isn't any different than helping clean up any other mess they made.

As a child care provider, I would NEVER make a child clean up the urine. I would have them take off their soiled clothing and redress on their own though.

As a parent, I would maybe have my own child help clean up their own urine but that is as a parent. Whole different ball game.

But I still don't think having a child clean up urine breaks the above rule.

I think Willow gave some good advice. Pull her immediately and do not return. File a complaint with your licensing agency.
I 100% agree with this post.
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lovemykidstoo 10:33 AM 10-26-2012
Originally Posted by SunshineMama:
You're right, children don't innately know the sanitary issues. Which is why, as adults, we need to take the time to teach them. It is no different than teaching them to cough or sneeze into their elbows, or to wash their hands before eating, after blowing noses, and bathroom usage. My 1 year old knows that if she has an accident, she will help mommy take a cloth and clean it up, and then we go to wash hands. We talk about staying clean and dry. I go back in afterwards myself and sanitize- she's too young to use chemicals. But she knows the process because I taught her. Kids learn by mistakes, and parents and care providers need to take each opportunity to help them learn.

I personally keep a set of spare clothes for all of the kids that the parents provide, and I have even let a child borrow one of my child's pants before. But that is going above and beyond, as a courtesy to the families, and should be considered an extra special nice gesture. Unfortunately, as providers, we all have been burned too many times by doing extra, and providing things like extra clothes to the parents, which never get returned. (Not saying you are that way-but it happens a lot). If you sent your child to a preschool and your child had an accident, the preschool would not launder your child's clothing, or provide extra clothes for your child to wear. They would just call you to come and pick up your child.

I guess all I am saying is that teaching a child to clean up after themselves is an important life skill. If your child was helping clean up a little bit of her own pee pee with the assistance of a caring adult, and then was taught to wash her hands, etc, then that's really not bad. Most kids enjoy being big helpers and learning self-help skills.
I think that this might be the issue here. I think that the op is saying that the dcp is a bit heavy handed so to speak.
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clep 10:52 AM 10-26-2012
Originally Posted by dansmail26:
Most people I talked to disagree with you on this one. I did talk to someone on the state hotline who actually led me to this regulation who thought it fit perfectly.
So then why are you posting here any further. You seem to have decided your pov before you even came on here. Seems to me that you are looking for providers to cosign your thought processes.

In all reality, your child knew she was cleaning up a mess she made. Nothing demeaning about that, unless you are one of the elite that thinks hiring someone to do the job would be a better fit.

While the scenario wasn't what you would have chosen, your child was not abused nor could have suffered emotional damage or any lasting scars. I would have removed my child, but then again I also would have been very well aware of the policy if a child soils their pants. Seems like this is not the first time your child soiled herself there. What happened the other times?
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SunshineMama 11:25 AM 10-26-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
Your 1 year old is potty trained?
Yes, I did the 3 day method with her and it worked great. She still gets busy and will have pee pee accidents 1-2 times per month, but she's 100% diaper free, even at night.
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Willow 12:10 PM 10-26-2012
Originally Posted by clep:
So then why are you posting here any further. You seem to have decided your pov before you even came on here. Seems to me that you are looking for providers to cosign your thought processes.

In all reality, your child knew she was cleaning up a mess she made. Nothing demeaning about that, unless you are one of the elite that thinks hiring someone to do the job would be a better fit.

While the scenario wasn't what you would have chosen, your child was not abused nor could have suffered emotional damage or any lasting scars. I would have removed my child, but then again I also would have been very well aware of the policy if a child soils their pants. Seems like this is not the first time your child soiled herself there. What happened the other times?

You know, I think that's incredibly unfair to this parent.

Your comment about being one of the "elite" was especially insulting. None of my parents are "elitest" in any way shape or form but yes, they would have that expectation just the same.

What we all perceive as appropriate, inappropriate or even damaging is a matter of perspective and perception (on our end too not having the full picture available here). In the end it doesn't matter what your individual opinion is of what is appropriate. The only thing that matters is a parent has concerns about what THEIR opinion is of what is appropriate.

We are all raised differently. We all have different beliefs. What this boils down to is there being a discrepancy between the beliefs of a parent and their child's daycare provider. This parent came here to bounce their thoughts and feelings. I think that was the right thing to do before jumping the gun. I do the same thing. I think most parents do when it comes to something they feel strongly about but are concerned they're off the mark about.


No matter what this parent does it will be their prerogative to do so, and even if it conflicts with the actions we personally take doesn't necessarily mean they're wrong. All we can do is what believe is right by our own.
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Crystal 12:14 PM 10-26-2012
As a provider, there is NO WAY I would EVER have a child clean up their own urine or feces. There are several reasons:

1. It is likely to result in a BIGGER mess than it was initially
2. It is unsanitary....a child of three years old does not have the proper motor or cognitive development to clean up such a mess without getting it on hands/clothes/walls/materials within close proximity
3. It is teaching that the adult is "superior" and what he says goes.....regardless of wether or not it was an accident
4. It IS shaming and demeaning.....the child is likely already feeling guilty and embarassed about the incident itself.....requiring the child to clean it up only draws further attenion to the matter....in front of all of her peers....how could that NOT be shaming and demeaniing the child?
5. Parents PAY ME to care for their child, not to teach them to clean up urine or feces.
6. In regards to teaching responsibility....that's just hokey....there are MANY, MANY teachable moments throughout every single day where we have the opportunity to instill responsibility in children....cleaning up toys, putting away their art materials, USING THE TOILET and other self-care skills, putting away their dishes and cups after mealtime.....

I could go on, and on....but I won't, other than to say if I was the parent of said child, I would be LIVID and the provdider would undoubtedly know IMMEDIATELY. And, I wonder what other providers here would do if the sho was on the other foot....it is one thing for YOU to have your OWN child do it as your own values as a parent, but what if a provder as making your child do it? How would you HONESTLY feel about it then????
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dansmail26 01:43 PM 10-26-2012
Originally Posted by clep:
So then why are you posting here any further. You seem to have decided your pov before you even came on here. Seems to me that you are looking for providers to cosign your thought processes.

In all reality, your child knew she was cleaning up a mess she made. Nothing demeaning about that, unless you are one of the elite that thinks hiring someone to do the job would be a better fit.

While the scenario wasn't what you would have chosen, your child was not abused nor could have suffered emotional damage or any lasting scars. I would have removed my child, but then again I also would have been very well aware of the policy if a child soils their pants. Seems like this is not the first time your child soiled herself there. What happened the other times?
Wow you are kind of nasty, sorry if the cleaning is your line of work and I offended you. And if you are able to read and comprehend the posts you will see this was the first time this has happened to her there, a matter of fact it is the first time it has happened to her anywhere in the last 5 months.

If you were able to follow the posts you would see I took the advice of someone after my original post and called the licensing agency and found out about the regulation later in the day yesterday. So in other words, by my posting I was able to educate myself and get good advice which I followed.

But in addition, I did want to find out from others if I was over-reacting or this was normal day care operating procedures, which I have found out it definitely wasn't.

And how do you know with the operators attitude and actions she wasn't scarred? She did ask today if she had to go to "Jeff's" next week.

Thanks again to everyone for the good advice.
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dansmail26 01:46 PM 10-26-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
As a provider, there is NO WAY I would EVER have a child clean up their own urine or feces. There are several reasons:

1. It is likely to result in a BIGGER mess than it was initially
2. It is unsanitary....a child of three years old does not have the proper motor or cognitive development to clean up such a mess without getting it on hands/clothes/walls/materials within close proximity
3. It is teaching that the adult is "superior" and what he says goes.....regardless of wether or not it was an accident
4. It IS shaming and demeaning.....the child is likely already feeling guilty and embarassed about the incident itself.....requiring the child to clean it up only draws further attenion to the matter....in front of all of her peers....how could that NOT be shaming and demeaniing the child?
5. Parents PAY ME to care for their child, not to teach them to clean up urine or feces.
6. In regards to teaching responsibility....that's just hokey....there are MANY, MANY teachable moments throughout every single day where we have the opportunity to instill responsibility in children....cleaning up toys, putting away their art materials, USING THE TOILET and other self-care skills, putting away their dishes and cups after mealtime.....

I could go on, and on....but I won't, other than to say if I was the parent of said child, I would be LIVID and the provdider would undoubtedly know IMMEDIATELY. And, I wonder what other providers here would do if the sho was on the other foot....it is one thing for YOU to have your OWN child do it as your own values as a parent, but what if a provder as making your child do it? How would you HONESTLY feel about it then????
Extremely well said and thought out, thanks!

I especially like how you expressed #4.
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GrandmaDinasDaycare 01:59 PM 10-26-2012
I have owned a daycare for 25 years and never once would I have had a child clean up anything other than their toys. It's unsanitary and humiliating. I'm sorry this happened to your child and pray it doesn't happen again. Discuss it with your providers. Communication is always key...

Miss Dina (Schaefer)
Grandma Dinas Daycare
Yreka, Ca.
475405744

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dansmail26 03:18 PM 10-26-2012
Originally Posted by GrandmaDinasDaycare:
I have owned a daycare for 25 years and never once would I have had a child clean up anything other than their toys. It's unsanitary and humiliating. I'm sorry this happened to your child and pray it doesn't happen again. Discuss it with your providers. Communication is always key...

Miss Dina (Schaefer)
Grandma Dinas Daycare
Yreka, Ca.
475405744
Thank you. This guy appears very hard headed, I don't think talking to him will do any good. His wife seems to just go alng with him, he is definitely a type a personality. The only good solution is to leave, but we are having trouble finding another one.
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lovemykidstoo 03:30 PM 10-26-2012
Originally Posted by SunshineMama:
Yes, I did the 3 day method with her and it worked great. She still gets busy and will have pee pee accidents 1-2 times per month, but she's 100% diaper free, even at night.
Wow I've never heard of a 1 yr old having that control, not to mention the vocabulary. That's something.
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lovemykidstoo 03:35 PM 10-26-2012
Originally Posted by dansmail26:
Thank you. This guy appears very hard headed, I don't think talking to him will do any good. His wife seems to just go alng with him, he is definitely a type a personality. The only good solution is to leave, but we are having trouble finding another one.
The only talking I would do with him is to say good bye!
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saved4always 07:01 PM 10-27-2012
I wouldn't make a child clean up after an accident. It is not unusual for a 3 year old to have an accident like that. It is just that, an accident. Maybe if the child was peeing or pooping their pants repeatedly and obviously on purpose, I would consider the child helping clean it up as a detterant but not for an isolated incident like that.

As for extra clothing, I work in a center and we do not have any extra clothing to change kids into if they do not have spares. It is in our handbook that all children are to have an extra outfit just in case. When I previously did childcare in my home, I also did not have extra clothing. My youngest is 11 years old so any small clothing left our house long ago.
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Angelsj 08:40 AM 10-28-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
Wow I've never heard of a 1 yr old having that control, not to mention the vocabulary. That's something.
Interesting. My middle daughter was speaking full sentences (in French) at 10 months, and fully bilingual by age 2. She didn't potty train quite that early but she certainly had the vocabulary to do so if she had chosen to try.

I also had one train just before age 2, mostly due to his competitive spirit with his brother (age 3.5) who was training.
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lovemykidstoo 11:39 AM 10-28-2012
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
Interesting. My middle daughter was speaking full sentences (in French) at 10 months, and fully bilingual by age 2. She didn't potty train quite that early but she certainly had the vocabulary to do so if she had chosen to try.

I also had one train just before age 2, mostly due to his competitive spirit with his brother (age 3.5) who was training.
That is awesome. I think it's not that common to have a child of that age talking so good. Great though

I definately had alot more success with kids training when there is 2 of them doing it together for sure.
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Angelsj 12:17 PM 10-28-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
That is awesome. I think it's not that common to have a child of that age talking so good. Great though

I definately had alot more success with kids training when there is 2 of them doing it together for sure.
Not sure how awesome it was. She got that way through practice...LOTS of practice. She is 16 today and speaks 6 languages, 4 of them quite fluently. She still never stops talking.


And amen on the teamwork. If I can get two of them to work together or if they feel some competition (I don't push it, but if it is there..great) I love it!! They are so much easier.
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lovemykidstoo 01:28 PM 10-28-2012
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
Not sure how awesome it was. She got that way through practice...LOTS of practice. She is 16 today and speaks 6 languages, 4 of them quite fluently. She still never stops talking.


And amen on the teamwork. If I can get two of them to work together or if they feel some competition (I don't push it, but if it is there..great) I love it!! They are so much easier.
Do girls EVER stop talking? LOL!
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countrymom 01:54 PM 10-28-2012
hmm, this is the first accident in the daycare. To me it seems harsh for her to be cleaning it up her own mess. I can understand if a child was doing it over and over again and knew the what they were doing it and doing it on purpose, but one accident, thats mean. Also, why didn't they put spare clothes on her.

I had a dcg who near the end of the day had peed thru her clothes (tummy sleeper) I changed her and put my own clean clothes on her. I did tell dad that it was too late for me to throw it in the wash and it wouldn't have been done by pick up but to soak the clothes right away. I usually wash the stuff during the day so they go home clean.

also cleaning up should be more like, handing paper towels or holding the plastic bag, but I never allow touch kids to touch urine, that would mean that I would have to clean more.
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SunshineMama 12:52 PM 10-29-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
Wow I've never heard of a 1 yr old having that control, not to mention the vocabulary. That's something.
Both of my children are really verbal and could speak in full sentences and communicate their needs at age 1. Also, with the potty training, I did the 3 day method, which is a no pants deal, which helps the child to be more aware of their body. But then again, that was with my own child- something I would not replicate with a dck

I did a lot of research on potty training in other countries. Most children in the world are potty trained before the age of 2 because the majority of the world (mostly non-Western) cannot afford diapers. In China, they even make special pants with a split in the middle of them for potty training, so they can squat when they need to and learn when they have to go. I also did a bit of eliminiation communication and semi-attachment parented my own children. (Not something I would do if I sent my child to daycare-but I think it contributed to the success).
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lovemykidstoo 01:04 PM 10-29-2012
Originally Posted by SunshineMama:
Both of my children are really verbal and could speak in full sentences and communicate their needs at age 1. Also, with the potty training, I did the 3 day method, which is a no pants deal, which helps the child to be more aware of their body. But then again, that was with my own child- something I would not replicate with a dck

I did a lot of research on potty training in other countries. Most children in the world are potty trained before the age of 2 because the majority of the world (mostly non-Western) cannot afford diapers. In China, they even make special pants with a split in the middle of them for potty training, so they can squat when they need to and learn when they have to go. I also did a bit of eliminiation communication and semi-attachment parented my own children. (Not something I would do if I sent my child to daycare-but I think it contributed to the success).
When you say 1 year old, was your child closer to 12 months or closer to 2 years? Also, where can I get a pair of those pants and do they come in my size LOL!! Just kidding of course!
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SunshineMama 01:07 PM 10-29-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
When you say 1 year old, was your child closer to 12 months or closer to 2 years? Also, where can I get a pair of those pants and do they come in my size LOL!! Just kidding of course!
She was 18 months when I started, and it took a few weeks to get her down to the very few accidents. She went pull up free at night at 19 1/2 months- so i suppose she's a bit closer to 2. We aren't talking 12 months lol.
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dansmail26 07:29 PM 10-29-2012
Left a voice mail yesterday that we weren't coming back and would drop off the money for last week. Never received a followup call from them.
Hopefully it is all over with them.
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makap 08:05 PM 10-29-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
For me personally, I don't care what reason the child had an accident, I would NEVER have a 3 yr old clean it up. I would most definately be calling licensing and asking them if that is acceptable in your state. No matter what they said though, i would not by any means take my child back there. You have how many signs so far. The cleanup, the yelling if she's not eating fast enough, the not giving her breakfast ect and those are only the things you know about. Imagine the things you dont' know about.

Definitely this!!
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lovemykidstoo 04:44 AM 10-30-2012
Originally Posted by SunshineMama:
She was 18 months when I started, and it took a few weeks to get her down to the very few accidents. She went pull up free at night at 19 1/2 months- so i suppose she's a bit closer to 2. We aren't talking 12 months lol.
That's good. I have a couple that are 2 1/2 and smart as a whip and the parents have no interest in potty training. Well, I'm not doing it on my own. I have to say though they're big boys so I"m really kinda getting grossed out changing their diapers. Can I give them your number? LOL!
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JennyBear 05:26 AM 10-30-2012
I would be upset if a daycare made my daughter clean up her urine by herself; however, if she was asked to help and they were nice about it I would get that.

I have a home daycare and if a child has an accident I just clean it up and bag their soiled clothes. It is my policy that each child has 2 sets of spare clothes no matter what (they could get wet, muddy, soil them, etc). It is the parents responsibility to remembered these things. It's not my job to go out and purchase spare clothing for the children whose parents aren't responsible enough to follow my policies. It sounds harsh, but I already invest a ton of money into my daycare and make very little at the end of the month. I don't need to spend my hard earned money on things parents can simply remember to provide. Just my opinion.
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SunshineMama 05:45 AM 10-30-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
That's good. I have a couple that are 2 1/2 and smart as a whip and the parents have no interest in potty training. Well, I'm not doing it on my own. I have to say though they're big boys so I"m really kinda getting grossed out changing their diapers. Can I give them your number? LOL!
I had an almost 4 year old boy whose parents never were interested in potty training him, so I understand those big boy diapers!

One day, (after 90% of the kids went through 2 weeks of intense potty training at my house), he decided he wanted to use the bathroom. And he hasnt had an accident since. I suppose that's one way to go about it But those diapers....
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Willow 05:57 AM 10-30-2012
Originally Posted by dansmail26:
Left a voice mail yesterday that we weren't coming back and would drop off the money for last week. Never received a followup call from them.
Hopefully it is all over with them.
If I were you I'd try to get something in writing saying you're all paid up and the contractual terms have been fulfilled...either by bringing something with you or by sending an email and garnering a response.

You don't want this to come back and bite you later on and if the male in the household has a bit of a strict side he sure could be one to hold a grudge, stew on it, and then try to take you to the cleaners later.


Glad to hear your daughter will continue on somewhere else with a more reasonable provider
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Blackcat31 08:50 AM 10-30-2012
Originally Posted by dansmail26:
Left a voice mail yesterday that we weren't coming back and would drop off the money for last week. Never received a followup call from them.
Hopefully it is all over with them.
Originally Posted by Willow:
If I were you I'd try to get something in writing saying you're all paid up and the contractual terms have been fulfilled...either by bringing something with you or by sending an email and garnering a response.

You don't want this to come back and bite you later on and if the male in the household has a bit of a strict side he sure could be one to hold a grudge, stew on it, and then try to take you to the cleaners later.


Glad to hear your daughter will continue on somewhere else with a more reasonable provider
I agree. Put it in writing. Alot of providers do not consider a family withdrawn unless they have the notice/request in writting.

When you drop off the money, make sure at that point that you get something saying you are now paid in full and withdrawn from care.

Hope you were able to find other, more suitable care arrangements.
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DBug 10:42 AM 10-30-2012
I totally respect the OP for going with his gut and pulling his DD from this daycare.

I would definitely have a 3 yo help me clean up after an accident. We teach them to wipe anyway, so how is this different? Of course, I would be right beside her, cleaning and disinfecting afterwards and making sure she washed her hands really well. I've had a house full of teenaged boys and a nasty peed-on bathroom afterwards that proved to me that kids DO need to learn to clean up after themselves . Why not teach them early, before it becomes even more embarrassing?

BUT, I think OP had more to go on, even if it was just a gut feeling about this daycare, that something wasn't right. And in that case, ANY parent in the same situation (something not sitting right) needs to keep their child home until they figure out what's really going on. It's not worth placing your child in a potentially dangerous or verbally abusive situation.

Good luck, OP! I hope your search for a new (and much better!) daycare is quick and easy .
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dansmail26 08:07 PM 10-31-2012
Dropped of the three days (not four like we contract for) pay for the days we used last week. The man was busy with a crying baby and just took the money with a comment 'wish you would have talked to me we could have come to an understanding', I replied 'no, I think it was best to just move on!'
We start at a regular day care center next week. It's a larger center then the home care center she was in, but I think she's going to enjoy it. She was very excited she was moving to a new school (her uncle is in college, she is sad when he leaves so we always talk about her going to day care, then school, then high school and finally college, she thought this was an advancement!). But then it was sad because she asked if Mae (her best friend) was going to the new school too....
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Tags:3 year old, potty accidents, urine
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