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JeepGirl6 05:50 PM 11-01-2013
How many of you have or have had your child's vaccinations split up?

How many of your child get them all at once?

My son will be 3 months old this Sunday. His Dr. wanted him to get 5 shots last month at one appt. I thought it seemed to me so much on a little baby so I asked to have them split up. I have to go back every month now until he is about 9 months old since I want to have them split up.

He had to get 3 yesterday to catch up from his 2 month appt. We thought he was going in for 2 shots but he had to get caught up on his Hepatitis B vaccine since he had the first one in the hospital.

You hear about the possibility of vaccinations causing autism and that just worries me. Our Dr. said that it couldn't be proven.

I think about all that medicine going in my little guy. Its so much on his little body.

Maybe I am just being paranoid.
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dbslas 06:28 PM 11-01-2013
I am all for splitting them up! I don't understand the push to have so much jammed into them at once.
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TwinKristi 06:45 PM 11-01-2013
Yes we split them up as well. I didn't do any at 2 mos, did 1 at 4mos, 2 at 6mos, 2 at 9 mos, and that's it so far. He's had his HIB and Prevnar completed but that's it and our Ped was ok with that. Pertussis isn't as rampant as it was a few years ago. I did the normal timeline with my other kids just because I didn't know better but there weren't even as many then as now and we didn't do the hep B at birth with our youngest. It wasn't given at birth prior to 2007-2008 I believe? The youngest before my last was 2005 so it wasn't offered.
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Angelsj 06:50 PM 11-01-2013
First of all, he doesn't HAVE to do anything. You can choose an alternative schedule. The only issue is having shots too close to each other, being further apart does not necessarily cause an issue.

Secondly, the best thing you can do for your child is research. Look at what they want, and the diseases they want it for. Look at the "recommended" distance for each immunization (not shot, some shots immunize for more than one thing) and what is actually a good separation for each immunization.

Go into every appointment armed with what YOU have decided your child will have at that appointment and demand it be met. If you have good information and a clear picture of what you want to happen, you will get a lot less flack from the staff and the doctor.
NOT saying you should do this, you should research for yourself, but we didn't even begin immunization until my kids were over a year. Point being you can decide what you want to happen.

I will caution you, however, that anything you decide NOT to immunize against or to hold off on, know that disease, its symptoms and the dangers. The more you know what you are talking about, the safer your child will be, either from immunizations or from the diseases.
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EchoMom 08:30 PM 11-01-2013
I followed Dr. Sears delayed vaccine schedule. I've been happier and more comfortable following that schedule, although it is much more work with a tiny baby because you do have to go in every month instead of every other month at first.

However, now in hindsight, my DS is 2 years old and it's much much easier. He only gets shots every 6 months. He never did get a Hep B in the hospital or at all yet.

I agree, it just seems like too much at once. However, will I do the delayed schedule again if I have another child? Probably, but POSSIBLY not... but it's a strong probability that I will do delayed again.
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dingledine 08:42 PM 11-01-2013
I got all of my first childs done all at once. Co-incidence or not, he has attention issues, dyspraxia, etc. He also got over vaccinated for Polio. He also has allergies and got sick all of the time.

I got my second childs delayed, and I only picked and choose DTaP. He has a great immune system, almost never gets sick, is very bright, but has some sensory disorders.

I got my third child delayed, and picked DTaP when she was older as well. She has a pretty good immune system, and no behavior or otherwise issues at this point.

I don't know if it is co-incidence or not, but that is my personal experience.
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Cradle2crayons 11:00 PM 11-01-2013
My 10 year old daughter developed a seizure disorder after her 18 month MMR and now is never allowed to have another one. The seizures did eventually go away. But after that vax, she was diagnosed with ADHD, spd, and several other things including asthma. Her immune system is not good and she's spent most of her x10 years sick with something. We have no history if any of it in either family so all of it came as a complete shock to us.

My 5 year old we delayed his vax. Never seen a more healthy child.

My take?? SOME children have something in their genetic makeup that can't tolerate all the chemicals and over vax. Not all kids. But some kids. Just like every kid is different. Those kids that have X makeup, develop issues afterwards. Most don't. But there's just no way to predict it. And we may never be able to.


The fact that the lady in charge of the MS department of health didn't dispute or seem at all shocked by what happened with us, concerns me. She is he one who, even with our states strict vax laws, insisted my daughter could never have any of the components of the MMR ever again. But she DID say, what happened to my daughter was DEFINATELY NOT an allergic type reaction to it.
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Unregistered 04:33 AM 11-02-2013
I have delayed my daughter's. I do not believe they cause autism, I just feel like it's a lot of chemicals at one time in her little body. I've looked at the side effects of the vaccines compared to the risks of the diseases themselves to make my decisions.

I work in the mental health/intellectual disabilities field. I've worked with many a family that believed vaccines caused their child's issues, but I've also seen individuals that are disabled due to a bad bout of measles or other childhood disease. I have one client who was bit by a horse and got equine herpes and ended up severely disabled. I guess anything can happen, but chances are honestly super slim. I'm going to end up getting everything (except chicken pox), but probably right before school begins.
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Angelsj 07:44 AM 11-02-2013
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
My take?? SOME children have something in their genetic makeup that can't tolerate all the chemicals and over vax. Not all kids. But some kids. Just like every kid is different. Those kids that have X makeup, develop issues afterwards. Most don't. But there's just no way to predict it. And we may never be able to.


The fact that the lady in charge of the MS department of health didn't dispute or seem at all shocked by what happened with us, concerns me. She is he one who, even with our states strict vax laws, insisted my daughter could never have any of the components of the MMR ever again. But she DID say, what happened to my daughter was DEFINATELY NOT an allergic type reaction to it.
I agree, but I think it is more than any of the medical community likes to admit. And we are not talking about just developmental delays, though I believe that link (though anecdotal) exists for a reason. Perhaps kids who are already prone to developmental delays react more to the immunizations? But we are also seeing steep rises in childhood cancers, asthma, spd, etc, etc...

I also often wonder about cumulative effects. The added effect of having vaccinated several generations. It may not have a direct connection, but what about my MOTHER being immunized, then ME being immunized, then my child...could that be affecting our kids?
My theory stems more from the fact that we did delay, and I still have four on the spectrum, so I don't think there is a direct connection. I also saw signs in two of them LONG before they ever had any shots.

Regardless, I just agree with that being a LOT of chemicals in a very short time. My kids have most of the vaccinations, it just took a lot longer for them to get them, and they are physically healthy as horses. My 12 yo dd has had ONE round of antibiotics in her entire life, and that was for a tick bite.
However, your lady isn't shocked because of the huge numbers they see. This is a voluntary database, but it is huge. And for all the reports that are minimal, there are dozens of reactions that never get reported.
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Willow 09:35 AM 11-02-2013
For the most part I did them altogether but do remember opting out of ones like annual flu vaccines. I fell behind occasionally but that usually wasn't intentional.

My son is now 9. No ear infections, no hospitalizations, has only been on antibiotics once for a bad bout with bacterial bronchitis or some such thing. Started kindy just 3 weeks after he turned 5, has always been evaluated as above grade level, no social, developmental or learning disabilities/delays.

Daughter is 10 1/2. Had a vp shunt placed at 15 months, removed at age 8 (due to hydrocephalus/faulty csf ventricle "flow" but it's something she grew out of). Other than that never a single ear infection, hospitalization outside of shunt placement and removal and she has never been on antibiotics. She has/had dylexia (genetic) but has near completely overcome it with Susan Barton method tutoring. She has no social, developmental or learning disabilities/delays.

I do not attribute her hydrocephalus or dyslexia to her vaccinations.


I credit their health to breastfeeding (not extended), attachment parenting (it's been long since proven that children who feel loved, nurtured and safe being cared for the first three years in a consistent environment by a consistent attentive caregiver remain healthier) and me staying home with them which gave me the opportunity to get them out and challenge their immune systems in a reasonable way.



Vaccines do NOT cause autism. That said you need to do what you feel comfortable with as a parent at the end of the day. There are potentially fatal risks both ways you go. The question I asked myself was, "If I don't do these vaccines and my child dies a horrific death from a preventable disease will I be able to survive not only the grief but also the guilt?" On the flip side I asked myself "If I do sign the consent form to authorize all these vaccines and there is some kind of reaction or long term consequence will I be able to survive not only the grief but also the guilt?"

For me I chose to consent because it was a choice made in the name of protecting their health long term and I just didn't see choosing *not* vaccinating in thst same light despite all the research I did supporting both options.

It's an INSANELY personal choice, and one that should be protected and respected as a parents and a parents alone.
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Willow 09:46 AM 11-02-2013
Angelsj - not arguing with you that vaccinations are a lot for a little body to handle, but so is just the air they breathe nowdays. The unregulated, unstudied polluted air we all breathe everyday is a far bigger concern to me for my children than regulated, studied and controlled vaccinations are......the processed foods they eat, the chemicals in the containers they eat out of, the chemicals in the toys they play with, the chemicals in their clothing, bedding and detergents both are washed in, virus/bacteria mutations due to antibiotic and sanitation over use/abuse creating these drug resistant super bugs etc etc etc into infinity.

Vaccines are one of the least of my concerns in regards to everything else they're exposed to on a daily basis......just to offer additional perspective of course.


The odds of a child being severely injured/killed in a car accident are far greater than those of a child having an adverse reaction to a vaccination. People don't let that stop them from loading their children up and taking the risk every single day, so it's really hard for me to understand the double standard even after considering all the worst case scenaio research I've done.
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Cradle2crayons 10:06 AM 11-02-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:
Angelsj - not arguing with you that vaccinations are a lot for a little body to handle, but so is just the air they breathe nowdays. The unregulated, unstudied polluted air we all breathe everyday is a far bigger concern to me for my children than regulated, studied and controlled vaccinations are......the processed foods they eat, the chemicals in the containers they eat out of, the chemicals in the toys they play with, the chemicals in their clothing, bedding and detergents both are washed in, virus/bacteria mutations due to antibiotic and sanitation over use/abuse creating these drug resistant super bugs etc etc etc into infinity.

Vaccines are one of the least of my concerns in regards to everything else they're exposed to on a daily basis......just to offer additional perspective of course.

The odds of a child being severely injured/killed in a car accident are far greater than those of a child having an adverse reaction to a vaccination. People don't let that stop them from loading their children up and taking the risk every single day, so it's really hard for me to understand the double standard even after considering all the worst case scenaio research I've done.
Don't forget the tap water. I hate tap water.
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Willow 10:30 AM 11-02-2013
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
Don't forget the tap water. I hate tap water.


It's easy to go on for days.....and scary that while researching the safety of vaccines is important, parents today aren't at all considering all the other chemicals their children are exposed to every single day that could have just as many if not more devastating effects than jabs meant to protect do.
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Leigh 10:37 AM 11-02-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:


It's easy to go on for days.....and scary that while researching the safety of vaccines is important, parents today aren't at all considering all the other chemicals their children are exposed to every single day that could have just as many if not more devastating effects than jabs meant to protect do.

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Angelsj 10:48 AM 11-02-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:
Angelsj - not arguing with you that vaccinations are a lot for a little body to handle, but so is just the air they breathe nowdays. The unregulated, unstudied polluted air we all breathe everyday is a far bigger concern to me for my children than regulated, studied and controlled vaccinations are......the processed foods they eat, the chemicals in the containers they eat out of, the chemicals in the toys they play with, the chemicals in their clothing, bedding and detergents both are washed in, virus/bacteria mutations due to antibiotic and sanitation over use/abuse creating these drug resistant super bugs etc etc etc into infinity.

Vaccines are one of the least of my concerns in regards to everything else they're exposed to on a daily basis......just to offer additional perspective of course.


The odds of a child being severely injured/killed in a car accident are far greater than those of a child having an adverse reaction to a vaccination. People don't let that stop them from loading their children up and taking the risk every single day, so it's really hard for me to understand the double standard even after considering all the worst case scenaio research I've done.
No doubt that other things also cause issues, from fluoride in our water, to garbage in our food, and chemicals in our air, it is just that this thread was discussing vaccinations. I just see no harm whatsoever in slowing down that dosing schedule and allowing some time between all that crap going into their little systems.
For the record, though, I do not consider choosing not to vaccinate or to put some off, and driving with my kids in the car to be a double standard. I also use car seats and careful driving to minimize the chance of an accident, exactly the way I use an extended schedule to minimize risk of vaccine damage. Same concept.

One thing I have an issue with though.. we CANNOT say that "Vaccines do NOT cause autism." We can say that no link has been found. We can say that we do not believe autism is caused by vaccines. But we cannot make a definitive statement like that. Science and medicine are an ever changing world. Who knows what tomorrow will bring?

I do absolutely agree, however, with that last statement. It is an insanely personal choice. You are comfortable with yours; I am comfortable with mine. OP, you must be comfortable with your decisions. Only you know what you can live with and where you fall on this concept. No one decision is right for everyone.

I also agree, Willow with all the other ideas about keeping kids healthy. Breast feeding, exposure to germs without dipping them in it, being home when they need you, loving and nurturing them, feeding them good homemade food. All of those things do wonders to build those little people into healthy children.
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safechner 03:16 PM 11-02-2013
My son had 5 shots at once when he was two months old at check up about two months ago. My doctor told me that FDA have to separate each shots that is why they got 5 shots. Both of my daughters had three shots. One shot had 3 different kind of it inside. FDA changed the rules. He is fine..

Vaccines do not cause autism... If they do then all the kids will get it. That doesnt make any sense to me. All my children go to the same doctor. My oldest daughter has PDD on the Autism Specturm when she was 3 years old. My other daughter didnt have it.

It will be fine, anyways...
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SilverSabre25 04:51 PM 11-02-2013
I believe that vaccines CAN cause SOME forms of autism. Or rather, that damage from the vaccines can cause autism-like symptoms, just as severe food intolerances/allergies (gluten and dairy) can do the same thing.

You have to weigh your family's history, your child's history, your personal beliefs, and all the information gleaned from researching both sides to determine whether and which vaccines are safe for you.

Personally, i choose to delay vaccines until my children are over one--this gives the immune system time to develop. By then, the number of vaccines needed has diminished just due to age (a lot of those early ones are only aimed at young babies anyway). I do DTaP and MMR, though MMR not until over 3.
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Willow 06:52 PM 11-02-2013
I don't want to start any kind of grumpy debate, but if vaccines *caused* autism then no non vaxed child would ever have it. Obviously, thats not the case. It is as prevalent in vaxed children as non.

Whether or not vaccines can influence onset and severity in a child already set to have it is debatable, but it does not *cause* it and science has long since proved that.


It would be easy to irradicate it if that were the case.

To date science has not been able to pin down ANY cause.
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melilley 06:56 PM 11-02-2013
I just posted this question a few days ago and it's interesting to see others opinions on this! My ds gets a high fever EVERY time he gets his vaccinations, and I'm talking 104.8! I don't know if there is any correlation or not, but we have wondered. His doc says that it's not from getting them, but I just think that It's just odd that he gets these temps every time and hasn't ever had one that high any other time!

My 10 yo dd on the other hand, has had all vaccinations and has only been sick (besides a cold) a handful of times.
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Willow 07:32 PM 11-02-2013
Originally Posted by melilley:
I just posted this question a few days ago and it's interesting to see others opinions on this! My ds gets a high fever EVERY time he gets his vaccinations, and I'm talking 104.8! I don't know if there is any correlation or not, but we have wondered. His doc says that it's not from getting them, but I just think that It's just odd that he gets these temps every time and hasn't ever had one that high any other time!

My 10 yo dd on the other hand, has had all vaccinations and has only been sick (besides a cold) a handful of times.
It's odd your doctor won't acknowledge that the fevers are very likely the direct result of the vaccinations. Fever means the vaccine has effectively introduced the illness and is challenging the immune system. It means the body is creating a memory of sorts on a cellular level, making the body better able, or completely able, to fight off that illness the next time it encounters it.

Many would argue that your child who gets the fevers actually needs vaccines more than your child who has no reactions to them at all. Ones immune system is obviously better equipped to handle those large scale challenges as opposed to the other one who's immune system is weaker, which is evidenced by the elicited response to the exact same challenge. Like muscles, t cell memory in many people, need a "trip to the gym" to stay in tip top shape. For some, maintaining a "buff" physique requires more maintenence than others. It's a good thing you're sending your one childs wimpy, waspy t cell response through the ringer, that'll definitely improve his body's response to all illnesses later in life.

If that makes any sense lol



Eta. Every time my children got a vaccine we were sent home with an informational sheet describing the illness/disease, vaccination benefits, risks, side effects etc. Every single one discussed fever as a side effect because of the challenge to the immune system, and that was exactly the point. That wasn't my only point of reference as I've researched this topic to death, but my kids' doctors have always openly acknowledged the correlation and never described it as a negative reaction.
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Cradle2crayons 01:27 AM 11-03-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:
It's odd your doctor won't acknowledge that the fevers are very likely the direct result of the vaccinations. Fever means the vaccine has effectively introduced the illness and is challenging the immune system. It means the body is creating a memory of sorts on a cellular level, making the body better able, or completely able, to fight off that illness the next time it encounters it.

Many would argue that your child who gets the fevers actually needs vaccines more than your child who has no reactions to them at all. Ones immune system is obviously better equipped to handle those large scale challenges as opposed to the other one who's immune system is weaker, which is evidenced by the elicited response to the exact same challenge. Like muscles, t cell memory in many people, need a "trip to the gym" to stay in tip top shape. For some, maintaining a "buff" physique requires more maintenence than others. It's a good thing you're sending your one childs wimpy, waspy t cell response through the ringer, that'll definitely improve his body's response to all illnesses later in life.

If that makes any sense lol



Eta. Every time my children got a vaccine we were sent home with an informational sheet describing the illness/disease, vaccination benefits, risks, side effects etc. Every single one discussed fever as a side effect because of the challenge to the immune system, and that was exactly the point. That wasn't my only point of reference as I've researched this topic to death, but my kids' doctors have always openly acknowledged the correlation and never described it as a negative reaction.
That IS a good point. It's also my understanding that fevers are NORMAL after vaccinations and NOT a signal of allergic or atypical reaction.

I know some of the high fevers do panic parents though.

But it's just like with typical illness, our doctors do NOT want us to treat a fever unless it's bad enough to make the kids feel so bad they don't want to keep themselves hydrated.

For instance. My daughter, when she was little, ran high fevers for EVERYTHING. Even a typical cold would run hers over 103. The docs said only treat them because she would get so lethargic she would nearly refuse to drink at all, risking dehydration. But if it was under 101, she would still drink. The docs said leaving the fever alone generally would result in the virus getting killed off quicker.

Now, my son, on the other hand, has only had one or two fevers in his entire life. Or at least over 100.5. After his shots, he would run one about 99.9 or similar. They never made him feel bad and he acted completely normal. Of course, he's rarely ever been sick either. I can still count on one hand his illnesses total in 5.5 years.

Every child is different but I also can't imagine why a doctor would think that a high fever would be abnormal after shots at all. The point of them IS to elicit an immune response after all.
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melilley 05:40 AM 11-03-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:
It's odd your doctor won't acknowledge that the fevers are very likely the direct result of the vaccinations. Fever means the vaccine has effectively introduced the illness and is challenging the immune system. It means the body is creating a memory of sorts on a cellular level, making the body better able, or completely able, to fight off that illness the next time it encounters it.

Many would argue that your child who gets the fevers actually needs vaccines more than your child who has no reactions to them at all. Ones immune system is obviously better equipped to handle those large scale challenges as opposed to the other one who's immune system is weaker, which is evidenced by the elicited response to the exact same challenge. Like muscles, t cell memory in many people, need a "trip to the gym" to stay in tip top shape. For some, maintaining a "buff" physique requires more maintenence than others. It's a good thing you're sending your one childs wimpy, waspy t cell response through the ringer, that'll definitely improve his body's response to all illnesses later in life.

If that makes any sense lol



Eta. Every time my children got a vaccine we were sent home with an informational sheet describing the illness/disease, vaccination benefits, risks, side effects etc. Every single one discussed fever as a side effect because of the challenge to the immune system, and that was exactly the point. That wasn't my only point of reference as I've researched this topic to death, but my kids' doctors have always openly acknowledged the correlation and never described it as a negative reaction.
His doctor did say that he may get a fever, I just didn't think it would get that high and he did say the high fever was not from the vaccinations, but a virus.

What you said definitely makes sense! I don't know why I didn't think of it this way.
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Angelsj 05:51 AM 11-03-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:
I don't want to start any kind of grumpy debate, but if vaccines *caused* autism then no non vaxed child would ever have it. Obviously, thats not the case. It is as prevalent in vaxed children as non.

Whether or not vaccines can influence onset and severity in a child already set to have it is debatable, but it does not *cause* it and science has long since proved that.


It would be easy to irradicate it if that were the case.

To date science has not been able to pin down ANY cause.
We just had this discussion. This is flawed logic. Many diseases/disorders can be "caused" by a variety of things. The exact same disorder can be caused by many, many things, and can act differently in different people. I could give you one hundred examples.

However, this may be a semantics thing. I wonder if things might be clearer if we used "contributed." Perhaps vaccines, in some children, contribute to autism in a way that they do not in other children. Perhaps they do not.

But science has NOT proven anything. So far a link has not been found, or we are not being told about it, but it has NOT be proven to not exist.
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Cradle2crayons 05:53 AM 11-03-2013
Originally Posted by melilley:
His doctor did say that he may get a fever, I just didn't think it would get that high and he did say the high fever was not from the vaccinations, but a virus.

What you said definitely makes sense! I don't know why I didn't think of it this way.
It's also interesting that in my experience as a nurse since 1995, doctors will do anything in their power to refuse to acknowledge that a vax caused ANYTHING.

When the seizures started within a week of my daughters MMR, the first doc was so adamant that the seizures and the other symptoms couldn't possibly be related. I got a second opinion and that dr profusely apologized straight up telling me that most docs are told to not acknowledge vax reactions if they don't have to. And in my research, I've found the same thing.

I had a dr I used to work with admit to me the same thing. He said the FDA doesn't mind them reporting reactions to drugs administered but they frowned upon vax reactions being documented. The reasoning is that there is already some controversary around them and the FDA nor doctors wanted more in the media.

As a nurse, most of my years being pediatric, if ant tell you the number of times a dr has reported a high fever after vax as being viral instead of even entertaining the idea it was just a common post vax reaction.
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melilley 06:01 AM 11-03-2013
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
It's also interesting that in my experience as a nurse since 1995, doctors will do anything in their power to refuse to acknowledge that a vax caused ANYTHING.

When the seizures started within a week of my daughters MMR, the first doc was so adamant that the seizures and the other symptoms couldn't possibly be related. I got a second opinion and that dr profusely apologized straight up telling me that most docs are told to not acknowledge vax reactions if they don't have to. And in my research, I've found the same thing.

I had a dr I used to work with admit to me the same thing. He said the FDA doesn't mind them reporting reactions to drugs administered but they frowned upon vax reactions being documented. The reasoning is that there is already some controversary around them and the FDA nor doctors wanted more in the media.

As a nurse, most of my years being pediatric, if ant tell you the number of times a dr has reported a high fever after vax as being viral instead of even entertaining the idea it was just a common post vax reaction.
This is very interesting, I didn't know this! My dh asked the doc why he gets the high fevers every time and the doc did say it's viral and my dh argued with him saying that it's every time and the doc said "Well I don't have a magic bullet to tell you otherwise" or something like that.

And I'm sorry your daughter has/had to go through that!
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Willow 07:07 AM 11-03-2013
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
We just had this discussion. This is flawed logic. Many diseases/disorders can be "caused" by a variety of things. The exact same disorder can be caused by many, many things, and can act differently in different people. I could give you one hundred examples.

However, this may be a semantics thing. I wonder if things might be clearer if we used "contributed." Perhaps vaccines, in some children, contribute to autism in a way that they do not in other children. Perhaps they do not.

But science has NOT proven anything. So far a link has not been found, or we are not being told about it, but it has NOT be proven to not exist.

Non vaccinated children get autism.

At exactly the same rate if not HIGHER rates than vaccinated children.

That IS DEFINITELY unequivocal proof that vaccines do NOT *cause* autism. As far as the possibility of them being a trigger to a child already predisposed....I've admitted that's not yet been determined but again, nothing has. And if parents are going to buy the propaganda that vaccines are to blame for triggering, what sort of answers does that offer parents of non vaxed autistic children?

If everyone hollars STOP! Don't vaccinate your children or it *could* trigger a "possible predisposition" your child may or may not have!!!! What of the mother who loses her child to measles even though her child was never at risk??

I'm all about responsible and ethical investigation in every direction, but the above assertion is anything but and the fear it creates is putting children, the lives of everyone around them and the lives of generations to come at grave risk.
There was a dangerous man ONCE, who fraudulently declared otherwise and children have died because of that blatent disregard of actual science. If he would have never opened his lying gob we wouldnt be having this discussion, yet some people still insist on falling back on his disgustingly inaccurate assertions.

I'd go so far as to declare what he did criminal.
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Willow 07:09 AM 11-03-2013
Originally Posted by melilley:
This is very interesting, I didn't know this! My dh asked the doc why he gets the high fevers every time and the doc did say it's viral and my dh argued with him saying that it's every time and the doc said "Well I don't have a magic bullet to tell you otherwise" or something like that.

And I'm sorry your daughter has/had to go through that!
I'd consider switching doctors if I was you. The fever is biology/immunology 101.

Sounds like he is either unbelievably arrogant or frightengly under educated
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Cradle2crayons 08:04 AM 11-03-2013
Originally Posted by melilley:
This is very interesting, I didn't know this! My dh asked the doc why he gets the high fevers every time and the doc did say it's viral and my dh argued with him saying that it's every time and the doc said "Well I don't have a magic bullet to tell you otherwise" or something like that.

And I'm sorry your daughter has/had to go through that!
Another example.....

When we adopted our son at birth, and took him for his first set of shots at the local health department, they were pushing the oral rotavirus vaccine. My daughter didn't get offered it when she was little and actually ended up with rotavirus at age 3 months. The one time we took her out into crowded public at my father in laws funeral at a very small church with about 50 in attendance. She spent a couple days in the hospital and recovered fine.

Fast forward. I asked the nurses a lot of questions about the oral rotavirus because it was new. They minimized the side effects and said even though it was live, they've NEVER EVER seen a child GET rotavirus from the vax. I understood it was live though and I knew how the live vax worked.

He got the first oral dose of rotavirus. And WHAMO BAMMO the child got rotavirus so bad he was sick for WEEKS.

I was pissed I had been lied to and deceived. When it happened I went back up there for he first follow up like they prefer. They lied to me again and said they had NEVER seen a child get rotavirus from the live oral vax.

When he had his second set and third, I refused that vax.
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Angelsj 08:35 AM 11-03-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:
There was a dangerous man ONCE, who fraudulently declared otherwise and children have died because of that blatent disregard of actual science. If he would have never opened his lying gob we wouldnt be having this discussion, yet some people still insist on falling back on his disgustingly inaccurate assertions.

I'd go so far as to declare what he did criminal.
This is a little bit insulting to those parents who have strong feelings about not vaccinating. And not true.
I began questioning vaccines for myself when my son had a nasty reaction to a pertussis vaccine 21 years ago. At that time, I found material that was already taking issue with the quantity/quality of what we were injecting into our children. This was long before the experiment you mention was ever done.
I am not going to argue about what that one scientist did, but to indicate that we "wouldn't be having this discussion" is just wrong. We WERE having this discussion. And children have also died from the vaccinations, so if we are arguing criminality, we would have to shoot an eye at the pharmaceutical companies as well.
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Willow 09:26 AM 11-03-2013
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
This is a little bit insulting to those parents who have strong feelings about not vaccinating. And not true.
I began questioning vaccines for myself when my son had a nasty reaction to a pertussis vaccine 21 years ago. At that time, I found material that was already taking issue with the quantity/quality of what we were injecting into our children. This was long before the experiment you mention was ever done.
I am not going to argue about what that one scientist did, but to indicate that we "wouldn't be having this discussion" is just wrong. We WERE having this discussion. And children have also died from the vaccinations, so if we are arguing criminality, we would have to shoot an eye at the pharmaceutical companies as well.
I was only referencing the purported link between autism and vaccines, not the danger of them entirely.

My only experience with vaccines is one of near full disclosure. My children's doctors were always honest about the other *confirmed and proven* risks and it's easy to find plenty of other information both from the pharmaceutical companies themselves as well as unbiased/double blind studies.

I realize that has not been everyone's experience but no one is forcing a parent to authorize their child to be immunized and there is a heck of a lot of information out there for those who seek it.

I don't buy the whole, we're all victims here and everyone else in the world is corrupt, trying to hurt us and our families. A healthy dose of skepticism is good, but being overly paranoid can often times hut more than it helps. With that, balance is essential. Investigate, but investigate ALL. There are millions of parents in this country right now not vaccinating their children because they believe that will protect them from ever ending up with autism. The blinders are on, the vast majority are looking in only one (and in my opinion misguided) direction.
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Angelsj 11:02 AM 11-03-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:
There are millions of parents in this country right now not vaccinating their children because they believe that will protect them from ever ending up with autism. The blinders are on, the vast majority are looking in only one (and in my opinion misguided) direction.
See, this isn't my experience. I see a lot of media coverage on this idea, and I hear this a lot, but I am involved with a LOT of non-vaccinating parents, and this is just not the case.
I will grant you, I do not know ALL of the non-vaccinating parents out there, mostly just the more active ones, but they are NOT trying to protect their children from autism. As a matter of fact, most of them would be the first in line to tell you they do NOT believe vaccines are a direct cause of autism at all, often because they recognized signs that their child/children different prior to any vaccinations, if they vaccinate at all.
Many of them are the most educated (vaccine wise) people you have ever met. They have done the research, and they question both the safety (overall) and the efficacy of vaccinations. Many of them also question how and where they are made, the necessity of some of the components, and a variety of other issues that have ZERO to do with autism.

I just don't see these mislead, confused, ignorant people that we are being told all these "non vaccinating" parents are. They may be out there, but I do not see them.
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Willow 02:04 PM 11-03-2013
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
See, this isn't my experience. I see a lot of media coverage on this idea, and I hear this a lot, but I am involved with a LOT of non-vaccinating parents, and this is just not the case.
I will grant you, I do not know ALL of the non-vaccinating parents out there, mostly just the more active ones, but they are NOT trying to protect their children from autism. As a matter of fact, most of them would be the first in line to tell you they do NOT believe vaccines are a direct cause of autism at all, often because they recognized signs that their child/children different prior to any vaccinations, if they vaccinate at all.
Many of them are the most educated (vaccine wise) people you have ever met. They have done the research, and they question both the safety (overall) and the efficacy of vaccinations. Many of them also question how and where they are made, the necessity of some of the components, and a variety of other issues that have ZERO to do with autism.

I just don't see these mislead, confused, ignorant people that we are being told all these "non vaccinating" parents are. They may be out there, but I do not see them.
I'm not at all saying non vaxing parents are misled, confused or ignorant. But there are plenty of large scale studies supporting that it happens with equal prevalence on both sides of the fence (some even going so far as to prove it occurs more frequently in non vaxed children). These are studies done not just on children in the United States but worldwide and thats why I've drawn the conclusion that vaccines are not any kind of catalyst. There have to be other factors and I wish there was more research in every other direction possible.

If you ask parents in this country, today, their main concern with vaccinations is the purported and fraudulent link to autism. Heck, look at how this thread began. That one concern and one concern alone is so typical it makes my head spin. I personally believe any link between the two has been dispelled, the dangers of reaction have already been proven, now lets move on in different directions kwim? We're stuck in the vaccines cause autism rut, how about exploring other factors that may ACTUALLY be causing it, triggering it, exacerbating it so these families dealing with it today can have some answers and famikies in the future can have some real means of protection.
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Willow 02:22 PM 11-03-2013
A fantastic link to credible, widespread, and very conclusive studies that dispell any concerns regarding a link to autism, thimerosal, amount of injections given at one time etc.

Not media hype. Not internet forum opinions. Actual unbiased information parents can use to make an solid decision on which direction to take their own child.

http://m.cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/48/4/456.full
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Angelsj 02:35 PM 11-03-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:
I'm not at all saying non vaxing parents are misled, confused or ignorant. But there are plenty of large scale studies supporting that it happens with equal prevalence on both sides of the fence (some even going so far as to prove it occurs more frequently in non vaxed children). These are studies done not just on children in the United States but worldwide and thats why I've drawn the conclusion that vaccines are not any kind of catalyst. There have to be other factors and I wish there was more research in every other direction possible.

If you ask parents in this country, today, their main concern with vaccinations is the purported and fraudulent link to autism. Heck, look at how this thread began. That one concern and one concern alone is so typical it makes my head spin. I personally believe any link between the two has been dispelled, the dangers of reaction have already been proven, now lets move on in different directions kwim? We're stuck in the vaccines cause autism rut, how about exploring other factors that may ACTUALLY be causing it, triggering it, exacerbating it so these families dealing with it today can have some answers and famikies in the future can have some real means of protection.
I have four children on the spectrum, so yes, I would like to see more and more research on the subject.
However, I would ask for an evidenced based peer reviewed study (from any country you like) that actually backs up that statement.
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Willow 03:22 PM 11-03-2013
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
I have four children on the spectrum, so yes, I would like to see more and more research on the subject.
However, I would ask for an evidenced based peer reviewed study (from any country you like) that actually backs up that statement.
See the link right above your post, it cites MANY.
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Angelsj 03:48 PM 11-03-2013
Originally Posted by :
No studies have compared the incidence of autism in vaccinated, unvaccinated, or alternatively vaccinated children (i.e., schedules that spread out vaccines, avoid combination vaccines, or include only select vaccines). These studies would be difficult to perform because of the likely differences among these 3 groups in health care seeking behavior and the ethics of experimentally studying children who have not received vaccines.
From your page...and specifically what I was interested in. For the record, I am not using a challenging tone. I am interested in ALL research along these lines, from ALL sides. I have never heard of a study that claimed that unvaccinated children had a HIGHER incidence of autism than vaccinated children.
That is what I was interested in finding a study for specifically.
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Cradle2crayons 03:57 PM 11-03-2013
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
From your page...and specifically what I was interested in. For the record, I am not using a challenging tone. I am interested in ALL research along these lines, from ALL sides. I have never heard of a study that claimed that unvaccinated children had a HIGHER incidence of autism than vaccinated children.
That is what I was interested in finding a study for specifically.
I'm interested in that also. Mainly because I'd think there are more vaxed than not vaxed so I don't see how it's possible more unvaxed kids have autism.

But one thing I do know, my daughter had NO signs of autism or any of her abbreviations before the reaction she had to the MMR. That, is a fact.
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Willow 03:57 PM 11-03-2013
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
From your page...and specifically what I was interested in. For the record, I am not using a challenging tone. I am interested in ALL research along these lines, from ALL sides. I have never heard of a study that claimed that unvaccinated children had a HIGHER incidence of autism than vaccinated children.
That is what I was interested in finding a study for specifically.
I don't take your tone as challenging, and have no qualms with the back and forth we've had

I thought that link had a link within it that addressed the prevalence compared.....hang on.



(FTR though, true research should never come from any "side" )
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Willow 05:10 PM 11-03-2013
Bah! I can't find a link to exactly what I'm looking for...... This is close, cant find a link to it being available to the public but the study referenced here sounds very much like what I remember running across:

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/...cinated-study/

Get past all the blah blah biased stuff that'll probably tick you off and you'll hit a blip about "One study published in Pediatrics in 2004 found that".....

It concluded environmental factors, poverty level especially, effect prevalence. Un/under vaccinated children often live below poverty level (not all, there is obviously a population of unvaccinated children who's parents make that choice because they are higher educated than norm and live quite well).

Basically this:

http://www.apa.org/pi/ses/resources/...behaviors.aspx

Because I'm struggling to find the words to clip together - socioeconomic factors typically effect access to healthcare in general, including means to vaccinate, and that can and does influence prevalence of neurobehavioral disorders.




So just because you and people you network with are financially stable while making the choice not to vaccinate, many others who don't vaccinate aren't refraining from doing so by choice and YES, those families ARE hit harder by neurological afflictions. That's long since been proven and in regards to many many afflictions.

The non vaxing world doesn't just consist of those doing so by choice. Consider your entire spectrum and you can maybe see where I'm coming from then with my assertions?
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