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  #101  
Old 04-25-2013, 12:04 AM
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I understand where you are coming from, I don't agree she was right for what she did. It's hard to sometimes get a clear picture when you are reading the post

As a provider, I would have never taken You on as a client knowing you would not allow me to transport your child. We just would not be a good fit. You have every right to not want your child transported.

She gave you a very short notice which i dobt think wAs fair but I'm confused you said that you knew she needed to leave early but you still didn't arrange to pick up your child when needed. Does she have in her contract that you are responsible for providing back up care for days that she may take off???

I'm not trying to go against you at all....just trying to see where she may be able to get away with what she did.
finding back up care for her days off was in the contract.. but shouldn't i get notice for those days???
  #102  
Old 04-25-2013, 12:07 AM
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basically what i am getting from all of this is that even though she did take my son without my permission, she did nothing wrong. the permission slip was not in the actual contract(it was a separate piece of paper) therefore i still owe her the 4 weeks of care whether my son is there or not.

i am also getting the feeling that everyone is in agreement that i have nothing legally binding for her to get any type of consequence for what she did, whether it be through licensing or just the state in general.....?
  #103  
Old 04-25-2013, 01:13 AM
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I'm not trying to upset you. Like crystal and I both said before you should still call licensing and let them investigate.

All I was asking is what the DCP policies are.

I have in my contract that if I need to leave and you are not here that I will take your child with me and you will need to pick them up wherewver I am at.

Now, I understand that your situation may be different. Like I said I'm just asking about the policies. I'm not saying its not a leagal binding document, I don't know what you signed.
  #104  
Old 04-25-2013, 05:07 AM
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So after you get this text saying you need to pick him up early... what did you do??? Did you try to have an adult conversation/explanation with this provider...Or you just stayed passive waiting to see how far could you push your personal interests over this provider's personal life!!

Now, if this provider, as many others, had to give you a short notice due to her own illness... would you just ignore it the same way??!!! Do you really do not have a back up plan for these situations?????! ...or you just intentionally decided to not use it this time !!!

The provider was in the wrong... but I'm getting the impression that also this parent is intentionally trying to push this providers buttons and just used this event as an opportunity!

This seems to me more like a power struggle of "who's the boss" and it is so sad to see one parent jeopardizing his child safety and a provider jeopardizing her license for such a childish behavior!
  #105  
Old 04-25-2013, 06:54 AM
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basically what i am getting from all of this is that even though she did take my son without my permission, she did nothing wrong. the permission slip was not in the actual contract(it was a separate piece of paper) therefore i still owe her the 4 weeks of care whether my son is there or not.

i am also getting the feeling that everyone is in agreement that i have nothing legally binding for her to get any type of consequence for what she did, whether it be through licensing or just the state in general.....?
Yes, since it was not part of the contract, the contract will not be void.

Licensing has said she did nothing wrong, so contacting a lawyer will more then likely get you nothing.

I'm also wondering, was there anything in the permission slip that if the provider needed to leave and you weren't there, the child would be transported? I know Daycare has that in her contract and I think some others do also.
  #106  
Old 04-25-2013, 07:03 AM
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Perhaps it was an oversight and she thought you actually did check the other box?

Otherwise I can't see her not addressing the issue then, even if it was no big deal to you that she miss parts of her sons games it obviously was to her.


When you told her that you wouldn't be able to pick up early what did she say?

As far as back up goes there are other alternatives than just family. Lots of family childcares offer drop in care, as do many stay at home moms when they're looking to make a bit of extra money. If you advertise that you're looking for drop in care I'm sure you could come up with at least an option or two.
  #107  
Old 04-25-2013, 07:09 AM
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finding back up care for her days off was in the contract.. but shouldn't i get notice for those days???
That's a question you both should have hammered out at interview time.

In her eyes it seems she gave you notice, in your eyes she didn't. Who's right and who's wrong is all a mere matter of opinion because no clear cut definition was ever established.
  #108  
Old 04-25-2013, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by kelliott View Post
basically what i am getting from all of this is that even though she did take my son without my permission, she did nothing wrong. the permission slip was not in the actual contract(it was a separate piece of paper) therefore i still owe her the 4 weeks of care whether my son is there or not.

i am also getting the feeling that everyone is in agreement that i have nothing legally binding for her to get any type of consequence for what she did, whether it be through licensing or just the state in general.....?
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Yes, since it was not part of the contract, the contract will not be void.

Licensing has said she did nothing wrong, so contacting a lawyer will more then likely get you nothing.
I'm also wondering, was there anything in the permission slip that if the provider needed to leave and you weren't there, the child would be transported? I know Daycare has that in her contract and I think some others do also.
I disagree. Just because the permission to transport was NOT part of licensing requirements, it was still part of an agreed upon contract between the provider and the parent.

Just like I state in my policies that I will not allow TV. If a parent came to my daycare and saw their child watching TV, I would consider our agreement to not be adhered to and therefore NOT what I (as the provider) agreed to provide or not provide for the child and as the parent, I would upset the provider did not provide the environment that was promised or implied to me during the interview.

This provider IMPLIED that there was or would be an agreement (a contract) between the two of them by presenting a permission slip or ASKING the parent to give permission to transport.

This parent did NOT give permission.

The provider understood and essentially AGREED to NOT transport the child and I believe the agreement was an implied contract or a personal contract between parent and provider.

A contract the provider went against.

All of us have rules/agreements in our policies that WE chose to have as rules but aren't part of our licensing requirements. Rules/policies such as not giving OTC meds or allowing late pick ups or drop offs etc. We all enforce those rules as a "law" or agreed upon CONTRACT between ourselves and our clients. I don't see why this case is any different.

Kelliot, I would absolutely contact an attorney as I believe that you DO have a right to remove your child WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE or PENALTY (having to pay the 4 weeks).
  #109  
Old 04-25-2013, 07:35 AM
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#1. i had texted her FIRST that day stating that my boss said i could not leave earlier than 4:30..4:30 is the time the baseball game started, she could have missed the first 10 minutes..
#2. an illness is quite different in my eyes as i am sure most people feel that way. EVERYTIME my son got an illness there i left work and was able to pick him up...this was not an emergency
#3.i am a SINGLE mother.. my parents are divorced and my father moved to another state, so no, i do not have back up sitters i can just call on a whim. the ONLY family i have within 300 miles of me is my mother, who mind you, works 12 hours a day and owns a business-perhaps i don't need to explain to you that she cannot just leave work when she feels like it...?
#4 i am telling my side of the story and answering the questions asked. you do not know me outside of this forum so keeping your judgement to yourself would be appreciated
You received the day before very clear instructions to pick up your child earlier... you ignored it!!! ...and now you expect us to not judge your decision but only to judge your provider's decision!!

This is her business... she decides when it is important to close the daycare... she was very clear from the beginning with you that these games were important... you lead her thinking you would cooperate at the time of the events... You ďgambledĒ and now you're putting on ďThe VictimĒ label and trying again to get privileges by not paying the 4 weeks in the contract!!!

We all in this forum are very familiar with parents that feel entitled for special treatment and find their lives more important than the providers' lives... so it becomes very easy to recognize one and read between the lines!

You and the provider were both wrong! Accept accountability...
  #110  
Old 04-25-2013, 07:58 AM
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Can we ask Tom this question? I'm sure he would know.

Could we just ask-Is the permission slip considered a contract between provider/parent and if broken does it break the money contract?
  #111  
Old 04-25-2013, 07:58 AM
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I disagree. Just because the permission to transport was NOT part of licensing requirements, it was still part of an agreed upon contract between the provider and the parent.

Just like I state in my policies that I will not allow TV. If a parent came to my daycare and saw their child watching TV, I would consider our agreement to not be adhered to and therefore NOT what I (as the provider) agreed to provide or not provide for the child and as the parent, I would upset the provider did not provide the environment that was promised or implied to me during the interview.

This provider IMPLIED that there was or would be an agreement (a contract) between the two of them by presenting a permission slip or ASKING the parent to give permission to transport.

This parent did NOT give permission.

The provider understood and essentially AGREED to NOT transport the child and I believe the agreement was an implied contract or a personal contract between parent and provider.

A contract the provider went against.

All of us have rules/agreements in our policies that WE chose to have as rules but aren't part of our licensing requirements. Rules/policies such as not giving OTC meds or allowing late pick ups or drop offs etc. We all enforce those rules as a "law" or agreed upon CONTRACT between ourselves and our clients. I don't see why this case is any different.

Kelliot, I would absolutely contact an attorney as I believe that you DO have a right to remove your child WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE or PENALTY (having to pay the 4 weeks).
I could not agree more with Blackcat.

I'll add that even if the daycare provider had an emergency she was still NOT permitted to transport your child anywhere.

Contact a lawyer. If you can't find one I'm sure we can help you find someone to help you.

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  #112  
Old 04-25-2013, 08:07 AM
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I'm curious how OP knew where to pick him up?

And what was said during that phone call to establish where on earth he was and during the pick up since I'm assuming she ultimately had to go get him from the ball field?



I'm sorry but I have to believe there is more to this story than we're hearing based on licensing saying the provider did nothing wrong. Most parents upon discovering their child was not at the daycare where they're supposed to be would more than panic. Calling the provider and the police wouldn't be out of the realm of expectation because it would be that big of a deal.

I have no idea about the legal ramifications because it could definitely turn into a big he said she said bit.....parent could say she never consented, provider could say she did because at interview time she made it clear these games wouldn't be missed and parent still choose her. Provider has proof she notified parent of the game via the text, parent has no proof she ever said she didn't want her child going.

EVEN IF the provider was in the wrong here parent is going to have a heck of a time trying to prove it, especially if in CA you don't need an actual signed form to transport.
  #113  
Old 04-25-2013, 08:09 AM
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If you think it's worth it I would contact an attorney to see if your obligated to pay. My contract is seperate from my policies and each one of my parents have broken a policy at one time or another and so have I when I didn't charge the fee or give the consequence that was stated in my policies. I don't have my contracts right here but they are based on Tom Copelands examples and I believe it says something about failure to follow x does not void the contact.
FYI almost every parent says their child's runny nose is because of allergies. A runny nose that's been going on for years is in no way normal.
I don't think the provider should have transported without permission but I'm confused and have a hard time believing part of your story. From what you said the provider text you the night before saying you needed to pick up early. You didn't respond back that night and neither of you addressed the problem at drop off. You responded after talking to your boss that day that you couldn't pick up until 4:30 and then what? It's common sense the provider would have text you back and said that if you weren't here when she needed to leave she would either have to take your child with or call emergency contacts/CPS to pick up.
It seems there are missing pieces. Did you drop off that day knowing full well that you could not pick up in time? You being a single mother with no family in the area is no excuse. A lot of us have been or are single moms. I have a majority of single moms who work and go to school. Most are not from this town and came here to go to college so they don't have family. They still do what they need to do.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think the provider should have transported, I wouldn't have accepted you into care that day, but take responsibility for your part in this situation.
  #114  
Old 04-25-2013, 08:09 AM
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Just double checked our regulations-no we don't have to have permission to transport.

1. Have a valid license and proof of insurance
2. Adequate number of seat belt/car seats/booster seats

You have to have permission to use sunscreen but not transport children-very interesting-
  #115  
Old 04-25-2013, 08:11 AM
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I'm curious how OP knew where to pick him up?

And what was said during that phone call to establish where on earth he was and during the pick up since I'm assuming she ultimately had to go get him from the ball field?



I'm sorry but I have to believe there is more to this story than we're hearing based on licensing saying the provider did nothing wrong. Most parents upon discovering their child was not at the daycare where they're supposed to be would more than panic. Calling the provider and the police wouldn't be out of the realm of expectation because it would be that big of a deal.

I have no idea about the legal ramifications because it could definitely turn into a big he said she said bit.....parent could say she never consented, provider could say she did because at interview time she made it clear these games wouldn't be missed and parent still choose her. Provider has proof she notified parent of the game via the text, parent has no proof she ever said she didn't want her child going.

EVEN IF the provider was in the wrong here parent is going to have a heck of a time trying to prove it, especially if in CA you don't need an actual signed form to transport.
exactly. So many inconsistencies.
  #116  
Old 04-25-2013, 08:15 AM
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Mom tried to make arrangements with the little notice she had. The provider must have known before 8pm about the game the next day. If being there was THAT important to her, then she should have given more notice. Chances are things got hectic and being human the provider forgot, but that oversight falls on her. The provider knew during the next day that the parent was only permitted to get off a half hour earlier. The provider had a choice to make. She could have her daughter fill in, but perhaps not able on shot notice either. Be late to the game, or transport a daycare child without consent.

While yes attending our family outings are important we need to be professional too. Parents do need to work and make and income too, and leaving work on little notice is not always easy to do. It was not an ideal parent/provider match, but with adequate notice of early closures it may have worked out.
  #117  
Old 04-25-2013, 08:26 AM
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We don't know how many the provider was taking so maybe the daughter couldn't stay back. That would have possibly put the provider over ration. I'm thinking it was a larger in home care if there were two of them running it.

This really needs to be a lesson-check over ALL paperwork and if something goes against providers wishes/needs the parent is more then likely not going to be a good fit.
  #118  
Old 04-25-2013, 08:45 AM
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AND UNRELATED TO THIS POST I THOUGHT I WOULD MAKE IT CLEAR: i DID technically sign the permission slip for transport right below the box i checked stating i was NOT okay with her transporting him off the premises.. it's not like i just ignored it.. she knew i had seen it because i signed it..and she also saw and noted i did not allow it
And here is the kicker ... I doubt that this would even be a debate had this been known in the beginning. The parent signed the form which I now am assuming had two little boxes that gave you a choice to either agree or not agree with transportation. Probably something like
[] I agree to allow vehicle transportation
[] I do not agree with allowing vehicle transportation

If the parent marked the "I do not agree" box then the provider 100% had no business taking the child from the property in a car, but did so anyway. If the provider did not notice that the parent did not agree with vehicle transportation then it was an oversight in her part. This MIGHT be the parents way out of ending the contract without having to pay, it would be up to the discretion of the courts.

Question for the Parent: Does your contract or policies say anything about how it is the provider's responsibility to keep the child safe etc.?

If it does then this could help you in a claim against the provider to show that you are not entitled to pay for the termination period. Provider was to keep the child safe, gave clients the option to say that the do not accept vehicle transportation for their child, parent marked "I do not consent" box because parent felt that vehicle transportation is unsafe, parent was told she would be given a schedule or advance notice before vehicle transportation was required, provider did not give a schedule or sufficient notice, parent contacted provider to communicate that her work did not give her permission to leave early because no sufficient notice was given, provider took child in vehicle anyway, parent feels uncomfortable after this "safety issue" and immediately pulled her child from the daycare.

I would definitely contact legal counsel. Ask (in writing) that the provider give you copies of every form that you signed, a copy of the contract and policy handbook if she has one for you to take with you when you get legal advice.
  #119  
Old 04-25-2013, 08:54 AM
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We don't know how many the provider was taking so maybe the daughter couldn't stay back. That would have possibly put the provider over ration. I'm thinking it was a larger in home care if there were two of them running it.

This really needs to be a lesson-check over ALL paperwork and if something goes against providers wishes/needs the parent is more then likely not going to be a good fit.
great point CK... one time I over looked something on one of my contracts with a parent. BUT it was nothing like this, it was a very simple thing, but had I not caught it, it could have ended bad..

Now, when i enroll a new child, I require all paperwork in my hands before they start and I look over it front to back, and make sure that everything is signed and that I have a pretty good understanding about the child's admission history (like allergies to foods and what not)
  #120  
Old 04-25-2013, 09:04 AM
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Just double checked our regulations-no we don't have to have permission to transport.

1. Have a valid license and proof of insurance
2. Adequate number of seat belt/car seats/booster seats

You have to have permission to use sunscreen but not transport children-very interesting-
The licensing regulations only apply to the states minimum regulations of how to run a FCC and have nothing to do with the contract between a parent and the provider. The state regulations also don't say that a parent must pay a provider for services rendered but those are still expected because you have a contract which the legal system can enforce ... see what I mean? So just because the state regulations for child care (Title 22) do not say anything about transportation (which licensing can do nothing about in her area as it seems) she may still be able to do something legally. If a verbal agreement is made it is still uphold-able in court regardless of whether it is in writing or not. The parent has the burden of proof to say that the provider was supposed to not transport the child in the vehicle and was to give the parent advance notice and did not. If the parent can prove these then I believe she has a chance.

This is no longer a battle through licensing, this is a court issue now. Did the provider give enough notice and did the provider break the agreement by transporting the child without the parent's permission.

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I'm curious how OP knew where to pick him up?
According to the parent the provider told her about the game the night before the game at 8:00 p.m and told the parent that she was going to the game. At that point you can assume that she knew that the provider would be at the child's park during the time of the game. If she arrived at the home and found the child not at the property it can be assumed that you would know that there was no emergency considering that you knew that the provider was going to be at the game. There would be no reason to call the police if you know where your child is.

It was also probably mentioned at some point where her child plays games whether at school or at a sports park. The parent says that she able to get off at 4:30 pm and that the provider could have waited a bit and been late 10 minutes to her child's game, this makes me think that it was close so probably not hard to find.
  #121  
Old 04-25-2013, 09:05 AM
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great point CK... one time I over looked something on one of my contracts with a parent. BUT it was nothing like this, it was a very simple thing, but had I not caught it, it could have ended bad..

Now, when i enroll a new child, I require all paperwork in my hands before they start and I look over it front to back, and make sure that everything is signed and that I have a pretty good understanding about the child's admission history (like allergies to foods and what not)
  #122  
Old 04-25-2013, 09:18 AM
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And here is the kicker ... I doubt that this would even be a debate had this been known in the beginning. The parent signed the form which I now am assuming had two little boxes that gave you a choice to either agree or not agree with transportation. Probably something like
[] I agree to allow vehicle transportation
[] I do not agree with allowing vehicle transportation

If the parent marked the "I do not agree" box then the provider 100% had no business taking the child from the property in a car, but did so anyway. If the provider did not notice that the parent did not agree with vehicle transportation then it was an oversight in her part. This MIGHT be the parents way out of ending the contract without having to pay, it would be up to the discretion of the courts.

Question for the Parent: Does your contract or policies say anything about how it is the provider's responsibility to keep the child safe etc.?

If it does then this could help you in a claim against the provider to show that you are not entitled to pay for the termination period. Provider was to keep the child safe, gave clients the option to say that the do not accept vehicle transportation for their child, parent marked "I do not consent" box because parent felt that vehicle transportation is unsafe, parent was told she would be given a schedule or advance notice before vehicle transportation was required, provider did not give a schedule or sufficient notice, parent contacted provider to communicate that her work did not give her permission to leave early because no sufficient notice was given, provider took child in vehicle anyway, parent feels uncomfortable after this "safety issue" and immediately pulled her child from the daycare.

I would definitely contact legal counsel. Ask (in writing) that the provider give you copies of every form that you signed, a copy of the contract and policy handbook if she has one for you to take with you when you get legal advice.
You bring up some VERY valid points.

From what I've read so far, I believe the provider DID know the parent was not okay with transportation or she wouldn't have made a point of saying the parent had to pick up early.

If the provider thought the parent was ok with transporting the need for early pick up would have been irrelevant and the provider would simply have said that the parent could meet her and pick up her child at the baseball game when the parent was off work. Eliminating the need for early pick up.

Although Tom Copeland is clear about contracts being enforceable and policies being changed at will, I think transporting a child OFF SITE is akin to kidnapping (although I wouldn't classify it as such if I were to pursue the issue).

As a parent I would be LIVID if this happened to my child as I am one of those parents who has major issues with allowing someone else to transport my minor children.

I also imagine that since the provider texted the parent the night before and did NOT receive a response that it was her (provider) duty as the professional business owner to reiterate the agreement for early pick up at the time of drop off.

I am betting the provider simply didn't say anything because she KNEW the parent wasn't going to pick up and that would be HER out to get rid of the child/family that was a wrench in the plans to always be available to see her DS's baseball games.

There was definitely a lack of communication about expectations from BOTH parties but I will say again that the parent has a right to be angry and upset with the provider and I also feel that if I were the provider I would simply let this whole thing go and not pursue the remaining balance for the final 4 weeks of care. I would just be done.

As the parent I would more than likely try and come to a fair and equitable compromise with the provider and either agree to pay a portion of the final 4 weeks or not pay anything.

If the provider was persistent in trying to get payment, I would pay it but then you can bet your bottom dollar I would file a complaint (whether licensing would do anything or not is moot) against the provider and I would seriously consider trying to get my money back in civil courts. I think the safety of MINOR children is nothing to take lightly.

Tom Copeland does have a blog entry about this and DOES mention a parent permission slip but otherwise is vague about the laws concerning transportation of MINOR children without parental consent. http://www.tomcopelandblog.com/2010/...-provider.html
  #123  
Old 04-25-2013, 09:28 AM
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According to the parent the provider told her about the game the night before the game at 8:00 p.m and told the parent that she was going to the game. At that point you can assume that she knew that the provider would be at the child's park during the time of the game. If she arrived at the home and found the child not at the property it can be assumed that you would know that there was no emergency considering that you knew that the provider was going to be at the game. There would be no reason to call the police if you know where your child is.

It was also probably mentioned at some point where her child plays games whether at school or at a sports park. The parent says that she able to get off at 4:30 pm and that the provider could have waited a bit and been late 10 minutes to her child's game, this makes me think that it was close so probably not hard to find.

I disagree it's that simple. If the parent said the child couldn't go I don't see how then the parent would just assume the provider went regardless of her instruction not to.

I would have absolutely assumed there was an emergency if we'd both come to the understanding that she was not allowed to transport my child off the property. To say I'd have had a bird in an absolutely fit of panic probably would have been an understatement. I don't think any parent would be wrong for having done so when they discover their child isn't where they're supposed to be and they haven't been notified otherwise.

Also, if mom isn't from town I don't think it's a stretch to wonder how on earth she knew which park they were at and where they'd be sitting so she could come to collect her child.


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Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa View Post
The parent has the burden of proof to say that the provider was supposed to not transport the child in the vehicle and was to give the parent advance notice and did not. If the parent can prove these then I believe she has a chance.

This is no longer a battle through licensing, this is a court issue now.

I do agree with the above but again don't think the proof is there, at least from what's been said here.

Provider made it clear at interview time that she does not miss these games.

Provider notified parent of a game before drop off the day before (the amount of time is moot, she DID let her know).

Parent still dropped off the next day.

Parent did not pick up by the designated time.

Licensing has said there was no wrong doing on the providers part.


Those are the facts.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong what happened, only that I don't think mom is going to have a leg to stand on in court based on her actions in this. The rest is all a bunch of he said she said and a judge will not void a contract on that alone. If they did can you imagine how many parents could fudge to get out of fulfilling the termination notice stipulations of provider contracts??
  #124  
Old 04-25-2013, 09:46 AM
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There are several things that you, the OP, have said since your original post that has made up my mind that I would never consider taking you on as a client. The provider was clearly upfront with you. She informed you from the get go that she would NOT miss NOT ONE game of her sons. You knew this and obviously since you did not agree for her to transport your son you DID AGREE TO PICK HIM UP FOR EVERY GAME. My son plays ball too and in the past we have gotten his schedule the day before ball games as well. This could have very well been the providerís situation. The provider notified you that she would be CLOSED FOR YOU by 4:30pm the following day (since you didnít allow transportation of your son) and you ignored the fact that SHE WOULD BE CLOSED. If you did that to me I would be livid. I donít give a rats a** if I give you a months notice, a weeks notice, a couple days notice, 24 hours notice or an hours notice if I need to close for any reason you better be there to pick up your child. That just looks so wrong and neglectful on your part.

I wouldnít have transported your child though I would have blown up your phone, all of your emergencies contacts and if no one responded my next call would have been to the police. Youíre just lucky all she did was take your son with her to the game. I would have made you look like a complete fool and terminated my contract with you that day. I donít transport but I do attend several fertility appointments every month for which I provide a back up provider for. If you were one of the parentís that didnít want your child left with my back up provider and you didnít show up to pick him up when you were told he had to be picked up (and I sometimes get less than a days notice of these apt times) I would have left your son with my back up provider and then handed you a termination letter when you walked in my door that night.

I WOULD NOT PUT MY LIFE ON HOLD BECAUSE OF YOUR AWFUL PARENTING!! Oh and you better believe you would get no refund for any days of care that were already paid because my contract covers parents disrespecting me and gives me the ability to terminate families on the spot for this and keep all fees. I would have pocket the remainder of your fees for that month as well as your deposit. Also OP I would have been sending your son home every single day too if his nose was running to the extent you have said it was. I donít care if itís a cold or allergies I go off of symptoms only and I donít have the time or the staff to wipe a childís nose every 5 minutes while still providing excellent childcare to all my other children. The provider wasnít lazy she was using common sense in that she didnít have the time or extra staff to wipe his nose constantly or clean up everything he wiped his snot on.

Itís unfortunate that you have turned this situation around on the provider in the sense that she is now being looked down on for transporting your child when you didnít give her permission to do so WHEN YOU WERE THE ONE THAT MADE ALL THE WRONG MOVES TO BEGIN WITH. I just see a child having a temper tantrum in this situation. Licensing said she wasnít in the wrong but you still want to get her in trouble somehow. Why? Because your mad and your being childish. Maybe you should look at your HUGE mistakes in this situation.

Last edited by Blackcat31; 04-25-2013 at 09:59 AM. Reason: separated paragraphs f
  #125  
Old 04-25-2013, 10:07 AM
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Itís unfortunate that you have turned this situation around on the provider in the sense that she is now being looked down on for transporting your child when you didnít give her permission to do so WHEN YOU WERE THE ONE THAT MADE ALL THE WRONG MOVES TO BEGIN WITH. I just see a child having a temper tantrum in this situation. Licensing said she wasnít in the wrong but you still want to get her in trouble somehow. Why? Because your mad and your being childish.
I completely agree!!!!

Signed Ė The ďUnregisteredĒ from post #85 and #109 of this thread
  #126  
Old 04-25-2013, 10:25 AM
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There are several things that you, the OP, have said since your original post that has made up my mind that I would never consider taking you on as a client. The provider was clearly upfront with you. She informed you from the get go that she would NOT miss NOT ONE game of her sons. You knew this and obviously since you did not agree for her to transport your son you DID AGREE TO PICK HIM UP FOR EVERY GAME. My son plays ball too and in the past we have gotten his schedule the day before ball games as well. This could have very well been the providerís situation. The provider notified you that she would be CLOSED FOR YOU by 4:30pm the following day (since you didnít allow transportation of your son) and you ignored the fact that SHE WOULD BE CLOSED. If you did that to me I would be livid. I donít give a rats a** if I give you a months notice, a weeks notice, a couple days notice, 24 hours notice or an hours notice if I need to close for any reason you better be there to pick up your child. That just looks so wrong and neglectful on your part.

I wouldnít have transported your child though I would have blown up your phone, all of your emergencies contacts and if no one responded my next call would have been to the police. Youíre just lucky all she did was take your son with her to the game. I would have made you look like a complete fool and terminated my contract with you that day. I donít transport but I do attend several fertility appointments every month for which I provide a back up provider for. If you were one of the parentís that didnít want your child left with my back up provider and you didnít show up to pick him up when you were told he had to be picked up (and I sometimes get less than a days notice of these apt times) I would have left your son with my back up provider and then handed you a termination letter when you walked in my door that night.

I WOULD NOT PUT MY LIFE ON HOLD BECAUSE OF YOUR AWFUL PARENTING!! Oh and you better believe you would get no refund for any days of care that were already paid because my contract covers parents disrespecting me and gives me the ability to terminate families on the spot for this and keep all fees. I would have pocket the remainder of your fees for that month as well as your deposit. Also OP I would have been sending your son home every single day too if his nose was running to the extent you have said it was. I donít care if itís a cold or allergies I go off of symptoms only and I donít have the time or the staff to wipe a childís nose every 5 minutes while still providing excellent childcare to all my other children. The provider wasnít lazy she was using common sense in that she didnít have the time or extra staff to wipe his nose constantly or clean up everything he wiped his snot on.

Itís unfortunate that you have turned this situation around on the provider in the sense that she is now being looked down on for transporting your child when you didnít give her permission to do so WHEN YOU WERE THE ONE THAT MADE ALL THE WRONG MOVES TO BEGIN WITH. I just see a child having a temper tantrum in this situation. Licensing said she wasnít in the wrong but you still want to get her in trouble somehow. Why? Because your mad and your being childish. Maybe you should look at your HUGE mistakes in this situation.
Wow! That was ALL really uncalled for. How is she in AWFUL PARENT? WHY does the provider's right to GO TO A BASEBALL game, trump the parent's right to the CARE SHE PAID FOR and the possible the loss of her job if she left work for a NON-EMERGENCY?????

This parent agreed to pick her child up with NOTICE in ADVANCE so that she could inform her boss that she would be leaving work early. I do not think that is too much to ask, and the provider certainly could have informed her sooner.

I personally think that the provider did it intentionally so as to force the parent out of her care without having to terminate services herself.

And frankly, I think YOU are being extremely immature when you state that you would have "made a fool out of her". Honestly, if you called the police, I think you would have made a fool of yourself. The police aren't going to touch a case where a provider calls them because a parent didn't pick up early for her to go to her son's baseball game.
  #127  
Old 04-25-2013, 10:26 AM
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all members of this family refuse to miss any of his baseball games if they are located in town. at the start of my son attending they had me sign a contract and included a permission slip for transportation of my son to these baseball games if i could not pick him up before the game-i did NOT sign it. i work 8am-5pm everyday and the games start at 4:30 in which she said, at the time of signing up, that she would let me know the dates of these games.
I have to agree with Willow in the sense that some of the key facts are obviously missing from this story. See above: THEY HAD ME SIGN A CONTRACT AND INCLUDED A PERMISSION SLIP FOR TRANSPORTATION OF MY SON TO THERE BASEBALL GAMES IF I COULD NOT PICK HIM UP BEFORE THE GAME.

If the above was in the contract including the IF I COULD NOT PICK HIM UP BEFORE THE GAME. I think it is safe to say that the true wording of the contract likely stipulated that parent's had two options. They could allow transportation to these baseball games OR they could pick up their child.

I feel we are not getting the full story.
  #128  
Old 04-25-2013, 10:30 AM
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I am SICK of providers defending other providers who are wrong simply to be in defense of their "profession" and never seeing anything from a parent's point of view.

This parent was not being unreasonable in any way and those of you who are chastising her should be ashamed of yourselves, and honestly you make me ashamed of being a provider, as I know that parents tend to lump us all together and think we are all the same.

Parents have rights. They have the right to DEMAND that their child not be transported. They have the right to expect AMPLE notification of early pick ups/closures. They have the right to expect to recieve the services for whihc they PAY.

Good grief, I honestly wonder how some of you manage to stay in business.
  #129  
Old 04-25-2013, 10:33 AM
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Wow! That was ALL really uncalled for. How is she in AWFUL PARENT? WHY does the provider's right to GO TO A BASEBALL game, trump the parent's right to the CARE SHE PAID FOR and the possible the loss of her job if she left work for a NON-EMERGENCY?????

This parent agreed to pick her child up with NOTICE in ADVANCE so that she could inform her boss that she would be leaving work early. I do not think that is too much to ask, and the provider certainly could have informed her sooner.

I personally think that the provider did it intentionally so as to force the parent out of her care without having to terminate services herself.

And frankly, I think YOU are being extremely immature when you state that you would have "made a fool out of her". Honestly, if you called the police, I think you would have made a fool of yourself. The police aren't going to touch a case where a provider calls them because a parent didn't pick up early for her to go to her son's baseball game.
Crystal I used the wording "awful parenting" in connection with the part where she was TOLD to pick up her child and didn't pick up her child. That's neglect as far as I am concerned. You're right it is the provider's right to go to her son's baseball games as she sees fit. And in her right to do so as a professional she needs to let parent's know that either A) she will transport them to the games along with her or B) they will have to pick up. The provider did this. The parent was in the wrong by agreeing that instead of having the provider transport the child she would pick him up and then failed to pick him up. The parent didn't pay the provider to watch her son over the provider's son's ball game times as per the contractual agreement the parent was to pick the child up over those times meaning the provider would not be paid to care for him over those times as the child was not suppose to be in attendance during those periods of time. Whether the parent would be putting her job on the line in this situation isn't the provider's problem. The parent is the one that agreed to pick her child up early for every game.

No one has defined what NOTICE IN ADVANCE means. I inform my families in advance (as soon as I know) of my fertility appointments and to me sometimes that notice means less than 12 hours.

You do not think that calling all of the parent's emergency contacts and getting the police involved (regardless of to what extent they can help) would not make the parent feel like a fool? That's ok because I think it would.
  #130  
Old 04-25-2013, 10:37 AM
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I am SICK of providers defending other providers who are wrong simply to be in defense of their "profession" and never seeing anything from a parent's point of view.

This parent was not being unreasonable in any way and those of you who are chastising her should be ashamed of yourselves, and honestly you make me ashamed of being a provider, as I know that parents tend to lump us all together and think we are all the same.

Parents have rights. They have the right to DEMAND that their child not be transported. They have the right to expect AMPLE notification of early pick ups/closures. They have the right to expect to recieve the services for whihc they PAY.

Good grief, I honestly wonder how some of you manage to stay in business.
No one is saying that the provider was right. Infact all I was saying was that the parent was the one in the wrong to begin with. Your right parent's have rights. They have the right to demand that their child not be transported. The provider tried to work with the parent on this situation it's the parent who in end didn't work with the provider which caused the provider to make a bad decision.

Parent's don't have the right to ample notification of early pick ups/closures. Unless that is part of the contractual agreement. Life happens and ample notification can not always be given. That's common sense.

This parent didn't pay for the service of her child being cared for over the time the provider's son had baseball. That was clearly covered.
  #131  
Old 04-25-2013, 10:38 AM
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so this thread does not get hairy, I think that we can all agree and learn that this was not a good business deal from the start.

I think we should just leave it at that...

As providers, we should learn from this that if a family cannot comply with all of our polices of our PHB, then they are not a good fit for us and enter into an agreement together when everyone is not on the same page. The parent should recognize the same. In the end, it is us provider who makes the final decision if a family is allowed to enroll or not....NOt the parents..

We should not offer special just for families, we know in the end, most of the time it never works out..... THis case proves it.

there is a lot of confusion in this thread, and we are only getting one side of the story here. All we can do is make a lot of assumptions of what did or did not happen...

I stopped posting on this form because I got tired of the outta control post and I just started posting again this week, just to find out that I guess these types of post are always going to exists......

Hopefully we can all keep this civil..........
  #132  
Old 04-25-2013, 10:50 AM
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No one is saying that the provider was right. Infact all I was saying was that the parent was the one in the wrong to begin with. Your right parent's have rights. They have the right to demand that their child not be transported. The provider tried to work with the parent on this situation it's the parent who in end didn't work with the provider which caused the provider to make a bad decision.

Parent's don't have the right to ample notification of early pick ups/closures. Unless that is part of the contractual agreement. Life happens and ample notification can not always be given. That's common sense.

This parent didn't pay for the service of her child being cared for over the time the provider's son had baseball. That was clearly covered.
You are very much saying the provider is right.

There is absolutley NO REASON that the provider couldn't have given earlier notice. There is NO WAY she found out at 8:00 the night before that her child had a game the next day. She did it intentionally because she wanted to cause the parent to be the one to terminate services so she wouldn't have to.

I would definately take legal action against her if she tried to charge me for the last four weeks of care.
  #133  
Old 04-25-2013, 10:52 AM
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You are very much saying the provider is right.

There is absolutley NO REASON that the provider couldn't have given earlier notice. There is NO WAY she found out at 8:00 the night before that her child had a game the next day. She did it intentionally because she wanted to cause the parent to be the one to terminate services so she wouldn't have to.

I would definately take legal action against her if she tried to charge me for the last four weeks of care.
Well I have gotten my son's baseball schedules the night before a game so I guess I see it differently then you. But let's agree to disagree here. I was just stating my opinion in the same way you were.
  #134  
Old 04-25-2013, 10:59 AM
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There are several things that you, the OP, have said since your original post that has made up my mind that I would never consider taking you on as a client. The provider was clearly upfront with you. She informed you from the get go that she would NOT miss NOT ONE game of her sons. You knew this and obviously since you did not agree for her to transport your son you DID AGREE TO PICK HIM UP FOR EVERY GAME. My son plays ball too and in the past we have gotten his schedule the day before ball games as well. This could have very well been the providerís situation. The provider notified you that she would be CLOSED FOR YOU by 4:30pm the following day (since you didnít allow transportation of your son) and you ignored the fact that SHE WOULD BE CLOSED. If you did that to me I would be livid. I donít give a rats a** if I give you a months notice, a weeks notice, a couple days notice, 24 hours notice or an hours notice if I need to close for any reason you better be there to pick up your child. That just looks so wrong and neglectful on your part.

I wouldnít have transported your child though I would have blown up your phone, all of your emergencies contacts and if no one responded my next call would have been to the police. Youíre just lucky all she did was take your son with her to the game. I would have made you look like a complete fool and terminated my contract with you that day. I donít transport but I do attend several fertility appointments every month for which I provide a back up provider for. If you were one of the parentís that didnít want your child left with my back up provider and you didnít show up to pick him up when you were told he had to be picked up (and I sometimes get less than a days notice of these apt times) I would have left your son with my back up provider and then handed you a termination letter when you walked in my door that night.

I WOULD NOT PUT MY LIFE ON HOLD BECAUSE OF YOUR AWFUL PARENTING!! Oh and you better believe you would get no refund for any days of care that were already paid because my contract covers parents disrespecting me and gives me the ability to terminate families on the spot for this and keep all fees. I would have pocket the remainder of your fees for that month as well as your deposit. Also OP I would have been sending your son home every single day too if his nose was running to the extent you have said it was. I donít care if itís a cold or allergies I go off of symptoms only and I donít have the time or the staff to wipe a childís nose every 5 minutes while still providing excellent childcare to all my other children. The provider wasnít lazy she was using common sense in that she didnít have the time or extra staff to wipe his nose constantly or clean up everything he wiped his snot on.

Itís unfortunate that you have turned this situation around on the provider in the sense that she is now being looked down on for transporting your child when you didnít give her permission to do so WHEN YOU WERE THE ONE THAT MADE ALL THE WRONG MOVES TO BEGIN WITH. I just see a child having a temper tantrum in this situation. Licensing said she wasnít in the wrong but you still want to get her in trouble somehow. Why? Because your mad and your being childish. Maybe you should look at your HUGE mistakes in this situation.
i am not asking for refund of any kind..and to say that i am an awful parent is ridiculous!!!.. attack me .. attack the fact that you think i'm being childish in that i wanted my son SAFE... but DO NOT comment on my parenting..you know nothing about the mother i am..keep your judgemental ridiculous immature comments to yourself! apparently the schedule is posted online in February, so no, she did not get it that night...i did respond her text that night about why she gave me such short notice..and she still took in my child the next day. with doing that i felt we were on the same page with the transportation situation.... i am simply here to ask for advice..not for your rude hateful opinion... perhaps you are on the wrong site..!!!
  #135  
Old 04-25-2013, 11:03 AM
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i am not asking for refund of any kind..and to say that i am an awful parent is ridiculous!!!.. attack me .. attack the fact that you think i'm being childish in that i wanted my son SAFE... but DO NOT comment on my parenting..you know nothing about the mother i am..keep your judgemental ridiculous immature comments to yourself! apparently the schedule is posted online in February, so no, she did not get it that night...i did respond her text that night about why she gave me such short notice..and she still took in my child the next day. with doing that i felt we were on the same page with the transportation situation.... i am simply here to ask for advice..not for your rude hateful opinion... perhaps you are on the wrong site..!!!
And I am here to give my opinion. I understand you wanted to keep your child safe and that's great. But you then should have picked him up and not risked the provider transporting him that day. Do you not feel you played a part in risking his safety? To me you gambled.
  #136  
Old 04-25-2013, 11:06 AM
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Crystal I used the wording "awful parenting" in connection with the part where she was TOLD to pick up her child and didn't pick up her child. That's neglect as far as I am concerned. You're right it is the provider's right to go to her son's baseball games as she sees fit. And in her right to do so as a professional she needs to let parent's know that either A) she will transport them to the games along with her or B) they will have to pick up. The provider did this. The parent was in the wrong by agreeing that instead of having the provider transport the child she would pick him up and then failed to pick him up. The parent didn't pay the provider to watch her son over the provider's son's ball game times as per the contractual agreement the parent was to pick the child up over those times meaning the provider would not be paid to care for him over those times as the child was not suppose to be in attendance during those periods of time. Whether the parent would be putting her job on the line in this situation isn't the provider's problem. The parent is the one that agreed to pick her child up early for every game.

No one has defined what NOTICE IN ADVANCE means. I inform my families in advance (as soon as I know) of my fertility appointments and to me sometimes that notice means less than 12 hours.

You do not think that calling all of the parent's emergency contacts and getting the police involved (regardless of to what extent they can help) would not make the parent feel like a fool? That's ok because I think it would.
you are beyone immature..good thing i don't live in your town or have ever ran across your daycare.. i would be writing reviews glaore on ur awful attitude and childish comments.. stay off of this post!.. i am asking for opinions..and your's is below any and ALL others...
  #137  
Old 04-25-2013, 11:07 AM
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Crystal - to be fair, how many providers don't consider or simply don't give a rip about parents' feelings when they charge for time they're not actually caring for a child? Or for their own vacations. And holidays. And sick days. Etc. When they have to hand over loads of cash upfront for deposits, and to pay for services they haven't even yet been provided?

What you and others may consider good business practice others find abhorrent, so who's right?

I too wonder how providers stay in business with some of their practices but the fact of the matter is it's none of my business because it's no skin off my teeth. Providers can implement whatever they want to and if parents sign up then they need to gracefully accept the agreement that was made and abide by it.

Whatever a providers stipulations are, that's their own personal business and I don't think they deserve to be judged for them. Especially when we're only hearing one side of the story, especially when we could all sit here and pick each other apart for things we think are nuts. What would be the point?



I don't care the reasons behind this provider feeling the need to go to every single one of her child's baseball games. For all we know her child has terminal cancer and is dying, or is a senior who is starting this last season. Perhaps he's overcome something big in his life and it's important to him for his parents to see him now succeed in something he loves.

There was a breakdown of communication somewhere along the line. It happens to the best of us. I would assume licensing would have taken action if it would have been warranted, it speaks volumes that they did nothing in response to a mother calling and giving them the whole dirty on what happened from her point of view.


I do believe there is more to life than doing daycare and I think far too many parents have no respect for that.
  #138  
Old 04-25-2013, 11:09 AM
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you are beyone immature..good thing i don't live in your town or have ever ran across your daycare.. i would be writing reviews glaore on ur awful attitude and childish comments.. stay off of this post!.. i am asking for opinions..and your's is below any and ALL others...

You asked for opinions on a public forum.

You have to expect that people are going to be honest with you whether you like the answers you receive or not.
  #139  
Old 04-25-2013, 11:10 AM
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you are beyone immature..good thing i don't live in your town or have ever ran across your daycare.. i would be writing reviews glaore on ur awful attitude and childish comments.. stay off of this post!.. i am asking for opinions..and your's is below any and ALL others...
Lol I do not even live in your country lady. When you post on this forum you need to expect both positive and negative opinions to your post. The immaturity lies in not accepting that. I have been reading this thread since the day it started and in the beginning I did side alot with you but as things progressed and I thought things through more and read more and more of your comments I realized that you were the one in fault to begin with and as someone else stated are now trying to come off as the victim. I thought long and hard before posting today. I wasn't even going to touch the thread. Immature people don't think before they do. I thought this out and wanted to share my opinion. You don't have to read it. You don't have to respond to it. You don't even have to like it. My opinion is not the end all it's just simply an opinion.
  #140  
Old 04-25-2013, 11:16 AM
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I am SICK of providers defending other providers who are wrong simply to be in defense of their "profession" and never seeing anything from a parent's point of view.

This parent was not being unreasonable in any way and those of you who are chastising her should be ashamed of yourselves, and honestly you make me ashamed of being a provider, as I know that parents tend to lump us all together and think we are all the same.

Parents have rights. They have the right to DEMAND that their child not be transported. They have the right to expect AMPLE notification of early pick ups/closures. They have the right to expect to recieve the services for whihc they PAY.

Good grief, I honestly wonder how some of you manage to stay in business.
  #141  
Old 04-25-2013, 11:20 AM
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you are beyone immature..good thing i don't live in your town or have ever ran across your daycare.. i would be writing reviews glaore on ur awful attitude and childish comments.. stay off of this post!.. i am asking for opinions..and your's is below any and ALL others...
Also I think my point has been proven that you acted childishly and were essentially looking to get the provider back. At least this is how your personality comes off:

I WOULD BE WRITING REVIEWS GLAORE ON YOUR AWFUL ATTITUDE AND CHILDISH COMMENTS.

I don't even know you lady, haven't watched your child and you don't like something I SAY so you threaten (want) to ruin my business?

GOOD GRIEF!!
  #142  
Old 04-25-2013, 11:25 AM
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You are very much saying the provider is right.

There is absolutley NO REASON that the provider couldn't have given earlier notice. There is NO WAY she found out at 8:00 the night before that her child had a game the next day. She did it intentionally because she wanted to cause the parent to be the one to terminate services so she wouldn't have to.

I would definately take legal action against her if she tried to charge me for the last four weeks of care.
Do you have kids who participate in sports? I have 3 boys in baseball right now & I have to say although we have not yet received schedules for our games (games set to start the 2nd week of May) it is not at all unusual for games to be re-scheduled with very little notice (due to very common rainouts in the spring & the fact that there are a lot of teams playing on only a few fields), as in coach calls you at 6 pm or later saying you will be having a make-up game the next day. Not saying anyone is right or wrong but it would not seem unusual to me as this has happened many times in our league (5th year baseball mom!)
  #143  
Old 04-25-2013, 11:27 AM
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Crystal - to be fair, how many providers don't consider or simply don't give a rip about parents' feelings when they charge for time they're not actually caring for a child? Or for their own vacations. And holidays. And sick days. Etc. When they have to hand over loads of cash upfront for deposits, and to pay for services they haven't even yet been provided?

What you and others may consider good business practice others find abhorrent, so who's right?

I too wonder how providers stay in business with some of their practices but the fact of the matter is it's none of my business because it's no skin off my teeth. Providers can implement whatever they want to and if parents sign up then they need to gracefully accept the agreement that was made and abide by it.

Whatever a providers stipulations are, that's their own personal business and I don't think they deserve to be judged for them. Especially when we're only hearing one side of the story, especially when we could all sit here and pick each other apart for things we think are nuts. What would be the point?



I don't care the reasons behind this provider feeling the need to go to every single one of her child's baseball games. For all we know her child has terminal cancer and is dying, or is a senior who is starting this last season. Perhaps he's overcome something big in his life and it's important to him for his parents to see him now succeed in something he loves.

There was a breakdown of communication somewhere along the line. It happens to the best of us. I would assume licensing would have taken action if it would have been warranted, it speaks volumes that they did nothing in response to a mother calling and giving them the whole dirty on what happened from her point of view.


I do believe there is more to life than doing daycare and I think far too many parents have no respect for that.
  #144  
Old 04-25-2013, 11:31 AM
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http://www.daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60861

Did any of you remember this thread?

It's a provider's point of view of a similar situation...

The event is a PROVIDER'S BEING SICK instead of PROVIDER'S SON BASEBALL GAME... but I think it has some similarities with the present thread in the sense that a mother assumed her job's demands entitled her to ignore the provider's short notice that the daycare would be closed.


Ok... PROVIDER'S BEING SICK it's an emergency and the BASEBALL GAME it is not... but in the other hand, these games where something expected by this mother and she should be better prepared for the situation.

BUT, what I find interesting is how different, this somehow similar situation, was received by this forum.

In the ďPROVIDER'S BEING SICKĒ thread most members were shocked by that mother's attitude in dropping off the child despite the provider's notice... In this ďPROVIDER'S SON BASEBALL GAMEĒ thread most members think the mother was not in fault by not picking up her child earlier after being informed by provider to do so...

I can't make sense of that!!
  #145  
Old 04-25-2013, 11:34 AM
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Angelwings you attacked her mothering abilities and basically called her an awful mother. The Mamabear instincts are bound to kick in

Kelliott - it's a learning experience. Gather the information you find useful from the posts. Learn from the varying opinions, and disregard the rest. I think many of us have learned from this post, so I thank you for coming here and posting in the first place.

No matter what the provider shoulders at least some of the blame for taking this client on in the first place.
  #146  
Old 04-25-2013, 12:38 PM
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You asked for opinions on a public forum.

You have to expect that people are going to be honest with you whether you like the answers you receive or not.
it's not the answers i have a problem with.. it's the demeaning nature in which she delivers them!.. give me your two cents and tell me i was wrong. don't don't attack my ability as a mother and how i can't keep my child safe!!!(the cops should have been called?!).

i am 23 years old and doing the best i can.. for everyone else that commented and gave their respectful opinions on my situation-siding with me or not, THANK YOU..it is appreciated!! definitely a learning experience..
  #147  
Old 04-25-2013, 12:45 PM
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it's not the answers i have a problem with.. it's the demeaning nature in which she delivers them!.. give me your two cents and tell me i was wrong. don't don't attack my ability as a mother and how i can't keep my child safe!!!(the cops should have been called?!).

i am 23 years old and doing the best i can.. for everyone else that commented and gave their respectful opinions on my situation-siding with me or not, THANK YOU..it is appreciated!! definitely a learning experience..
I am glad you view this as a learning experience.

That attitude can only be helpful in the future so good for you!

I do hope you have a plan for alternate care and in a program that better suits your needs. Sometimes, it takes a little bending from BOTH parties to come to an agreement so I hope this experience at least opens up the lines of communication on a deeper and clearer level between you and your next provider.

Please update us as to what your plan of action will be as far as paying for the final 4 weeks of care or if you and the provider have somehow come to a mutual agreement, which I hope for everyone's sake is somehow possible.

I am curious though....was this your first child care experience?
Is the provider fairly new or one who has been in business for a while?
Was it large group or a small group?
Did the provider ever transport for other purposes such as field trips?
Did she bring other daycare children with her to he son's baseball game that day or just yours?

I don't mean to ask 100 questions, but I like to know the background of things to give myself a deeper and clearer picture.

Anyways, I really do hope you can learn from this and I hope you find alternate care that is better suited for you and your son. Good luck!
  #148  
Old 04-25-2013, 01:17 PM
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it's not the answers i have a problem with.. it's the demeaning nature in which she delivers them!.. give me your two cents and tell me i was wrong. don't don't attack my ability as a mother and how i can't keep my child safe!!!(the cops should have been called?!).

i am 23 years old and doing the best i can.. for everyone else that commented and gave their respectful opinions on my situation-siding with me or not, THANK YOU..it is appreciated!! definitely a learning experience..
I am sorry for using the words "awful parenting" you're right I don't know you and I don't know how you parent. In the moment of my posting I chose very strong words and I apologize for that. But I still think that you made very poor decisions.

1) MOST IMPORTANTLY: Choosing a provider whom would not be available to care for your son (without transporting him) during the hours that you needed care for when you knew you didn't have enough flexability at work.

2) Not communicating effectively enough with your provider to find a solution that both you and her could accept as far as what would happen after 4:30pm that day. Then choosing to gamble that your provider would not transport your son if you just put your foot down and upright refused to pick up your son. The provider put your son's life at risk by transporting him and you put your son's life at risk by not picking him up on time knowing she may end up transporting him.

Your mistakes were the ones I feel caused the reactions from your provider in the end and that's what I was emphasizing on.

The provider made poor decisions when:

1) She did not communicate effectively enough with you to find a solution that both you and her could accept as far as what would happen after 4:30pm that day.

2) By deciding as a reprocusion to your incooperation in the situation that she would transport your child regardless. Like I said she should have been blowing up phones looking for someone to pick him up and presented you with a termination letter.

Both of you were at fault. I just didn't understand how you didn't see the mistakes you made leading up to the final result. It's not fair that provider is the one getting all the slack here (calling licensing, threatening to ruin business, etc..) for something that took two parties to go down.
  #149  
Old 04-25-2013, 02:32 PM
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Do you have kids who participate in sports? I have 3 boys in baseball right now & I have to say although we have not yet received schedules for our games (games set to start the 2nd week of May) it is not at all unusual for games to be re-scheduled with very little notice (due to very common rainouts in the spring & the fact that there are a lot of teams playing on only a few fields), as in coach calls you at 6 pm or later saying you will be having a make-up game the next day. Not saying anyone is right or wrong but it would not seem unusual to me as this has happened many times in our league (5th year baseball mom!)
I don't know about her but I do. And yes this happens and when this does my child's coaches know that if I don't give my clients notice in advance that I can't leave and if I can't find someone to take my child to her short notice games then she can't make it.

I have a business to run and although my children and my family are extremely important to me I don't expect my clients to be inconvenienced by a short notice to find alternative care. It's my responsibility as a business woman to interview my clients, make sure that they are a good fit and to have my ducks in a row by having all of my required forms signed, I's dotted and T's crossed. For that reason I simply don't enroll clients that are not 100% comfortable with me leaving my property with their children with or without vehicle transportation for whatever reason at all whenever I wish. It is clear to them that if they don't feel comfortable they need to move on.

I wouldn't take on a client that didn't sign my transportation form because I require it. I have enough trouble when I call clients to come and get a sick child and that's when they are sick. If I allow a client to refuse to allow vehicle transportation enroll in my program with the contingency that they pick the child up when we have to use a car I can easily assume that at one point or another I will have a client that either showed up late or not at all. To me as a provider that has seen the track record of sick pick ups and late pick ups I can make the assumption that hey, clients don't always come and pick up their kids on time. Sign the form so that I can take your child with me or pick another daycare. It really is that simple.

Not saying that DCM here has no fault in this because as a parent if I knew that I hadn't been handed a schedule of games I'd be hounding that provider for it day and night, no action doesn't make you any less guilty ... but (according to the parent) the provider has a piece of paper that is signed by the parent that restricts her from taking the child anywhere in a car. I don't know if she will win, that depends on her contract, policies and a whole lot of other stuff but she can try KWIM?
  #150  
Old 04-25-2013, 02:58 PM
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I really think this is unfair to the parent. She agreed to work with the provider on this, but the provider did not give her enough notice. Honestly, the provider is expecting WAY to much IMO.....an occasional early pick up, sure, but a couple of times each week....NO.
Then she should not have contracted with her!!!!
  #151  
Old 04-25-2013, 03:00 PM
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I am baffled?!? There is NO emergency "card" in CA that I have ever been given or seen! What is the number on this, so I can look it up. The Identification and Emergency Information "form" is LIC 700 and has NO back side! Am I in the twilight zone???? I have been doing this since 1986 and this is news to me!
Same here. I don't know what form your talking about. I do know that licensing just went to a friend of mine yesterday. And asked if her how many passenger seats her van was. She has a 15 passenger van (I do as well) the only thing licensing g told her was that we needed a class B license and a certificate from the Sherriff. Nothing was mentioned about permission slip needing to be signed. I just got a visit also in January and I was not asked about this form either. But if its out there I would like to know also.
  #152  
Old 04-25-2013, 03:06 PM
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I am glad you view this as a learning experience.

That attitude can only be helpful in the future so good for you!

I do hope you have a plan for alternate care and in a program that better suits your needs. Sometimes, it takes a little bending from BOTH parties to come to an agreement so I hope this experience at least opens up the lines of communication on a deeper and clearer level between you and your next provider.

Please update us as to what your plan of action will be as far as paying for the final 4 weeks of care or if you and the provider have somehow come to a mutual agreement, which I hope for everyone's sake is somehow possible.

I am curious though....was this your first child care experience?
Is the provider fairly new or one who has been in business for a while?
Was it large group or a small group?
Did the provider ever transport for other purposes such as field trips?
Did she bring other daycare children with her to he son's baseball game that day or just yours?

I don't mean to ask 100 questions, but I like to know the background of things to give myself a deeper and clearer picture.

Anyways, I really do hope you can learn from this and I hope you find alternate care that is better suited for you and your son. Good luck!
this was my second licensed daycare experience..the last one he was at i had no problems with except for the price..i was just not able to keep up with it anymore..i gave her two weeks notice and paid for that without hesitation. she has been in business for years so she is experienced but as she was threatening me about court and garnishing wages she did say "this isn't my first time at the rodeo with a fussy parent" which leads me to believe she's obviously had other issues with parents in the past. it was a large group daycare with a cap of 14 kids. she did not ever do field trips and told me she doesn't at the time of our first meeting. i am not sure if she took other kids to the game with her along with my son, but at the time i picked him up he was the only child there with her.
  #153  
Old 04-25-2013, 03:30 PM
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ultimately, i think she was wrong<--that is MY opinion. i did not appreciate her taking my son off the premises without my consent. in conclusion, she is sending me to collections because i refuse to pay her for the 4 weeks of care(owed whether my son would be attending those weeks or not)
  #154  
Old 04-25-2013, 03:41 PM
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ultimately, i think she was wrong<--that is MY opinion. i did not appreciate her taking my son off the premises without my consent. in conclusion, she is sending me to collections because i refuse to pay her for the 4 weeks of care(owed whether my son would be attending those weeks or not)
I honestly don't think she is in the right to come after you for the payment....But I think you were both wrong...jut my opinion.

You both could have handled it better. Despite that fact you can't go back and change time, I think it would be a really good idea for you to find someone who could help you as a back up form now on.

Don't get me wrong, I think the provider was way in the wrong for doing this. I would have never started a contrat with you in the first place, but with that being said, if I were in this providers shoes I would have stayed or had my daughter stay until you showed up and then told you that either:

a> we have to cut ties, this is not working out
b> I need you to have back up to pick up on days that you can't make it for my sons games.

YOu could have:
called her in the day time and told her I cannot get off work early and that you would need her to wait this time at the house.
or you could have called someone you trust to go and get your son so that this situation did not occur.
  #155  
Old 04-25-2013, 03:54 PM
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I honestly don't think she is in the right to come after you for the payment....But I think you were both wrong...jut my opinion.

You both could have handled it better. Despite that fact you can't go back and change time, I think it would be a really good idea for you to find someone who could help you as a back up form now on.

Don't get me wrong, I think the provider was way in the wrong for doing this. I would have never started a contrat with you in the first place, but with that being said, if I were in this providers shoes I would have stayed or had my daughter stay until you showed up and then told you that either:

a> we have to cut ties, this is not working out
b> I need you to have back up to pick up on days that you can't make it for my sons games.

YOu could have:
called her in the day time and told her I cannot get off work early and that you would need her to wait this time at the house.
or you could have called someone you trust to go and get your son so that this situation did not occur.
i did text her and let her know i was not able to leave work early.. that is when she replied with "he needs to be picked up by 4. if he is not picked up i will be taking him with us even though you did not approve it and you can pick him up at the varsity baseball field"

i understand i should have backup.. but i don't. i don't have much of a social life because being a mom, student, and employee has taken up pretty much all of my time. therefore, i have 2 friends that i actualy talk to pretty much everyday and they both work just as i do everyday so i cannot use them as backup..and as i said i do not have family members near me except for my mom who works 7:30am-7:30 pm(if not later) everyday, so she too is not able to help much.. i will check into an actual daycare center for drop-ins from here on..
  #156  
Old 04-25-2013, 04:00 PM
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i did text her and let her know i was not able to leave work early.. that is when she replied with "he needs to be picked up by 4. if he is not picked up i will be taking him with us even though you did not approve it and you can pick him up at the varsity baseball field"

i understand i should have backup.. but i don't. i don't have much of a social life because being a mom, student, and employee has taken up pretty much all of my time. therefore, i have 2 friends that i actualy talk to pretty much everyday and they both work just as i do everyday so i cannot use them as backup..and as i said i do not have family members near me except for my mom who works 7:30am-7:30 pm(if not later) everyday, so she too is not able to help much.. i will check into an actual daycare center for drop-ins from here on..
ugh, I see.... what did you say to her when she told you that if you are not here that she was going to transport him?

i understand where you are coming from when it comes to not having back up, but can I ask you this..
lets say you got into a car accident on your way to work or on your way home and you could not get to your child on time or even worse you ended up in the hospital? Who is going to pick up your child.

I was a single mother a long time and I always learned to plan for the worst, but always expect the best. My closest family member and father of my children was over 5000 miles away in a different county. I made really good friends with my neighbor who was my back up and she even had to pick up my son from school one day when he was sick and the school could not get in touch with me.

You really need to look at things all the way around for both you and your child. Maybe you can ask one of your good friends parents or find someone who could help be a back up.
  #157  
Old 04-25-2013, 04:23 PM
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I would love to know if the daughter remained back at the daycare with some of the children. I would be curious to know if she choose to take a child that she did not have permission to transport, over a child she did have permission to transport. Just curious.
  #158  
Old 04-25-2013, 04:39 PM
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AND UNRELATED TO THIS POST I THOUGHT I WOULD MAKE IT CLEAR: i DID technically sign the permission slip for transport right below the box i checked stating i was NOT okay with her transporting him off the premises.. it's not like i just ignored it.. she knew i had seen it because i signed it..and she also saw and noted i did not allow it[/quote]

This is the first time I've seen this info... And it's totally related to this post... You signed giving permission and then wrote in handwriting you didn't allow it. That right there will make the legal process difficult. I do think by what you've said that the provider knew you didn't want her to transport, but I also coach a softball team and sometimes they do just throw games on us without any notice at all... I believe everyone made mistakes in this and you already contacted licensing. So, it's starting to really seem to me that you are on some war path here that may not have a good ending for anyone involved, including you.

Good luck with this though, I'm glad your child is safe. I also would NEVER agree to take so someone who wouldn't allow me to take their child off property.

I may have missed it, but why exactly didn't you want her to take your child off her premises ????
  #159  
Old 04-25-2013, 04:48 PM
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ultimately, i think she was wrong<--that is MY opinion. i did not appreciate her taking my son off the premises without my consent. in conclusion, she is sending me to collections because i refuse to pay her for the 4 weeks of care(owed whether my son would be attending those weeks or not)
If I were you I'd try very hard to work something out with her as far as payment goes. Maybe a compromise on the amount, or a payment plan.

Without reading the actual contract I obviously cannot tell for sure, but it sounds like she has a perfectly enforceable contract and the transportation without permission doesn't void it.

If she takes you to court and wins this could end up costing you hundreds of dollars in fees, costs and perhaps even attorneys fees, plus interest until it's paid. If she gets a judgment it will be on your credit, whether it's paid or not for a minimum of 7 years. She could keep you from buying a house or getting a loan when you need it. She could garnish you wages and/or bank account.

Either have an attorney take a look at the contract to be sure you can't be held liable or try to work it out with her.

That's my advice, and it's good advice. Take it as you will.
  #160  
Old 04-25-2013, 07:02 PM
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I am in CA and the state does not get involved with transportation type stuff./ From what I understand, they do not even check to make sure that we have the right amount of auto insurance to transport children.

they (lic) cannot tell us how to type up or contracts, but they do want for us to have a plan of operation which includes a transportation arrangements.


I think you were both in the wrong for doing business together. If she knew she was going to be going to games, then she should have not taken your child when she knew that you were not going to allow for her to transport him. In my eyes that was wrong on her part. But then also wrong on your part for having him in a place that you knew this was going to happen......

I think you two should come to a mutual understanding and try to work it out.

Can I ask why you don't want your son to be transported?
Pretty much.
Both of you made a bad decision trying to work together.
She should have given you way more notice with a complete schedule, that is true.
From the posts it sounds like she was looking to get you to leave.
I also have a funny feeling that when you texted her to say you couldnt come early she probably replied letting you know he would be brought to the game.

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Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
I really think this is unfair to the parent. She agreed to work with the provider on this, but the provider did not give her enough notice. Honestly, the provider is expecting WAY to much IMO.....an occasional early pick up, sure, but a couple of times each week....NO.
Actually the provider can do whatever she wants. Its her business. Whether or not she gets clients is another story.
  #161  
Old 04-25-2013, 08:49 PM
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they had me sign a contract and included a permission slip for transportation of my son to these baseball games if i could not pick him up before the game-i did NOT sign it. i work 8am-5pm everyday and the games start at 4:30 in which she said, at the time of signing up, that she would let me know the dates of these games. this week she had sent me a text message at 8PM the night BEFORE a baseball game telling me i had to leave work early the next day and pick up my son by 4pm so they could go to their game. with such short notice i was not able to leave work and she took my son to the game with her without my permission!
You signed a contract saying that you would pick up your child early on days her son had baseball games. You didn't want your child to be transported so your provider depended on you to stick to your side of the bargain and pick up your child early on those days. It sounds like she never said how much notice she would give you, my children have played baseball and I was notified about a game or a change at the last minute on several occasions. I tell my parents I will notify them I have to close early or close as soon as I know. There have been times in the past I've had to text parent's at 5 am the day before because I woke up and felt deathly ill. It's your responsibility to have a back up plan.

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at my work i have to fill out a form to request time off.. when she let me know about this early pick-up it was 8pm and was not able to do that until the day of, which my boss would not let me do
So she text you at 8 pm. You didn't text back I assume? Then you dropped your child off and nothing was said about this issue. You went to work and asked your boss about getting off early and were told he/she couldn't let you off work until 4:30? Then what? Please fill in all of the obvious missing pieces.

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Originally Posted by kelliott View Post
she texted me and said that i did not approve transportation therefore i would need to pick him up early.. and it was the DAY OF the game in which case i could not just tell my boss i wanted to leave
When she text back and said you would need to pick him up early because you didn't want her to transport how did you respond?

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Originally Posted by kelliott View Post
everything was not great.. my son like her, yes.. but i wasn't %100 happy with her at any point in time.. the fees were ridiculous and it just seemed as if mine, or any of the kids for that matter, were a burden to her on any given day. the day i checked out her daycare(because i know how daycare centers are with sick kids) i told her that pretty much ever since my son was born he has had a runny nose which his physician said was allergies and nothing to be concerned about..she replied to that statement with "as long as it's not green it's okay. green means they have an infection"... about 3 weeks ago she sent me a message stating "contagious or not, if your child has allergies and you don't want them on medication then they need to stay home...ash and i have spend the last week cleaning noses and everything that snot can be smeared on. call your pediatrician and they can tell you what would be best to take"...... if i would have taken him out then(my physician-who i'm sure knows more about toddler health issures than she does, said that he does not need medication) would i still be legally binded to the contract since she technically was the one who told me not to bring him?
Are you just trying to find a way to get out of the contract here?

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Originally Posted by kelliott View Post
#1. i had texted her FIRST that day stating that my boss said i could not leave earlier than 4:30..4:30 is the time the baseball game started, she could have missed the first 10 minutes..
So she sent you the message about the game at 8 pm. You must not have responded to the text or addressed the issue at drop off. This probably lead the provider to think you were either going to pick up early or she could transport so she didn't address it with you at drop off either. Then you text her that day, after dropping off your child and said you wouldn't be able to leave until 4:30? It sounds to me that you intentionally did not respond that night or that morning at drop off so your provider would assume you were ok with her transporting. Then you dropped off your child and text her later saying you couldn't get off and she couldn't transport.
  #162  
Old 04-25-2013, 08:52 PM
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.good thing i don't live in your town or have ever ran across your daycare.. i would be writing reviews glaore on ur awful attitude and childish comments.. stay off of this post!.. i am asking for opinions..and your's is below any and ALL others...
This statement right here makes me positive that there is so much more to this story.
  #163  
Old 04-25-2013, 08:56 PM
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she has been in business for years so she is experienced but as she was threatening me about court and garnishing wages she did say "this isn't my first time at the rodeo with a fussy parent" which leads me to believe she's obviously had other issues with parents in the past.
Most of us have had issues with parents in the past. Some parents think we are their employees. Some parents think they deserve special treatment. Some parents intentionally do things to us that effect our lives in a negative way. Thankfully most parents aren't that way.
  #164  
Old 04-25-2013, 09:01 PM
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I would love to know if the daughter remained back at the daycare with some of the children. I would be curious to know if she choose to take a child that she did not have permission to transport, over a child she did have permission to transport. Just curious.
To the OP. How old was the daughter? Do you know is she was an assistant or if she was a co-provider? The difference would be that she could not leave your child alone with her assistant (at least in my state). Was her daughter's certificate of registration displayed?
  #165  
Old 04-25-2013, 09:35 PM
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i did text her and let her know i was not able to leave work early.. that is when she replied with "he needs to be picked up by 4. if he is not picked up i will be taking him with us even though you did not approve it and you can pick him up at the varsity baseball field"
Like I said before, it sounds like you dropped your child off and purposely did not address the issue leading her to believe you would be picking your child up early. Then you got to work, text her and said you could not leave work early. I believe it when you say she said "he needs to be picked up by 4. If he is not picked up I will be taking him with us" but every word you say happened after that is just not the path that normal human conversation follows. Did she actually say "even though you did not approve it and you can pick him up at the varsity baseball field"? This isn't how people talk.
Let's say she did say all of that. Most parents would have then left work and picked their child up if they were so very adamant that their provider not transport their child but what did you do? You went on the rest of your day knowing that if you didn't arrive in time your child would be transported. It doesn't make sense.
You said her son was in high school. Was he old enough to drive? Did he have his own car or did he depend on his mom to drive him? Having to be there at 4:30 makes me think she had to drive him and he had to be there early enough to warm up. Of course I could be wrong about this but it's obvious there is more to this story.
If I was your provider I don't know what I would have done. I would like to think that I would have stayed home and handed you an instant termination notice when you picked up.
What would yo have done if the provider would have called in sick that day? I had to inform my parents I was closing once 3 hours before they were supposed to arrive. What if she had become ill during the day or had some other life event and needed you to pick up early? It think it was possible for you to pick up but you just didn't think the providers reason was important enough so you decided to test her and you didn't get the result you wanted.
Did you just want a way out of the contract? Earlier you said that you didn't like her fees. I found that interesting. Fees usually means money on top of weekly tuition that is usually charged because the client breaks a policy. Why were you being charged fees?
So many questions, I really wish the provider was on here.
  #166  
Old 04-26-2013, 05:48 AM
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Did she actually say "even though you did not approve it and you can pick him up at the varsity baseball field"? This isn't how people talk.
Let's say she did say all of that. Most parents would have then left work and picked their child up if they were so very adamant that their provider not transport their child but what did you do? You went on the rest of your day knowing that if you didn't arrive in time your child would be transported. It doesn't make sense.
You said her son was in high school. Was he old enough to drive? Did he have his own car or did he depend on his mom to drive him? Having to be there at 4:30 makes me think she had to drive him and he had to be there early enough to warm up. Of course I could be wrong about this but it's obvious there is more to this story.
If I was your provider I don't know what I would have done. I would like to think that I would have stayed home and handed you an instant termination notice when you picked up.
What would yo have done if the provider would have called in sick that day? I had to inform my parents I was closing once 3 hours before they were supposed to arrive. What if she had become ill during the day or had some other life event and needed you to pick up early? It think it was possible for you to pick up but you just didn't think the providers reason was important enough so you decided to test her and you didn't get the result you wanted.
Did you just want a way out of the contract? Earlier you said that you didn't like her fees. I found that interesting. Fees usually means money on top of weekly tuition that is usually charged because the client breaks a policy. Why were you being charged fees?
So many questions, I really wish the provider was on here.
Very well said!! This is not a mother worried with her child safety... this is a mother trying to frame a daycare provider that refused to "bend" to this mother's "tantrums"!! I'm almost positive that if this provider came to this forum she would have a completely different interpretation of this "transportation slip" issue! This mother obliviously does not like to be said she's wrong, do not take accountability for any results and is in this forum just presenting the information that favors her childish desire of "revenge"!! A lot more is being concealed and THAT IS the information that made the licensing office say the provider did nothing wrong!! This all seems SO CLEAR to me!!!
  #167  
Old 04-26-2013, 09:04 AM
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This is also a clear example of Passive-Aggressive Behavior parents. This mother had to settle with this provider because of her low rates... this mother did not agreed with this provider's regulations... and instead of doing something about it and going to another daycare, she just agreed to cooperate and then ďperformedĒ her passive-aggressive behavior.

I met in my daycare business a couple of mothers with this ďproblemĒ and it is an impossible relationship to work with in this business.


http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/pas...havior/AN01563

Quoting the article in the above link:

ďWhat are the signs and symptoms of passive-aggressive behavior?
Answer
from Daniel K. Hall-Flavin, M.D.
Passive-aggressive behavior is a pattern of indirectly expressing negative feelings instead of openly addressing them. There's a disconnect between what a passive-aggressive person says and what he or she does. For a passive-aggressive person, true feelings are shared through actions, not words.
For example, a passive-aggressive person might appear to agree ó perhaps even enthusiastically ó with another person's request. Rather than completing the task, however, he or she might express anger or resentment by missing deadlines, showing up late to meetings, making excuses or even working against the task.
Specific signs and symptoms of passive-aggressive behavior include:
Resentment and opposition to the demands of others
Complaining about feeling underappreciated or cheated
Procrastination
Stubbornness
Inefficiency
Memory lapses
Sullenness
Irritability
Cynical or hostile attitude
Although passive-aggressive behavior can be a feature of various mental health conditions, it isn't considered a mental illness. If passive-aggressive behavior is interfering with your relationships or daily activities, consult a therapist who can help you identify and try to change your behavior.Ē

I'm sure many ladies in this forum can recognize in this article some of the issues we struggle with in this career...
  #168  
Old 04-26-2013, 09:10 AM
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I have been providing care for 15 years. My family comes first. I started this to be with my kids and every family that I care for knows that. I tell them when they sign up about having to close early on occasion and with sports, I don't always know exactly when and what time that will be. My families have been wonderful throughout the years.
I don't take advantage of it, but won't miss my kids events.

I had one family no show to pick up early once and they were very apologetic. I was not happy, since I missed a special event for my child. They never missed an early pickup again!

Obviously, her schedule is not going to work for what you need. Find other care.
Not every day care family or day careprovider is the perfect fit for each other.
  #169  
Old 04-26-2013, 09:21 AM
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i am a mother worried about my child..if i wasn't, i would have signed that damn slip without hesitation..and yes, ofcourse i'm trying to get out of this contract with her.. i don't think what she did was right, therefore i should not have to pay for services not rendered to me. this is not a tantrum. a tantrum is what the daycare provider pulled on me the day after, calling me a bitch and a brat. i texted her very respectfully when i let her i know i was pulling my child from her care, and that is what she responded with.

and yes when i let her know i could not leave work early the night before AND the day OF her sons game..she did in fact respond with these exact words "we would gladly take him with us but you didn't approve it. he has to be picked up by 4 or we will take him with us" to that i did not respond-i was at work! by the time i had received that message is was already past 4pm and there was really nothing i could do at that point. her daughter is 22 years old and clained as her "assistant" on all of the daycare forms/contracts so yes, she could have stayed back for 15 minutes.

let me break it down for all of you confused judgemental people:
-i met her before signing up to check out her place and talk with her
-everything seemed fine as far as the baseball issue. she said she would let me know when these games were
-he signed up and was attending for a month and a half and seemed to like it
-at 8pm on tuesday she texted "hi ***** i need you to pick up Caiden tomorrow by 4pm. we have a home baseball game and i noticed that you didn't approve transportation. thank you"
-i responded with "the only way i will be able to arrange that is is Caiden stays with his aunt all day tomorrow..she's 14 and can't drive to pick him up at 4, so if thats the case i don't think i should have to pay for tomorrow with this short of notice." that was the end of the conversation that night
-nothing was said or brought up when i dropped him off. it might had lead her to believe i was going to pick him up and everything was fine, BUT it also lead ME to believe she understood where i was coming from and would not transport him
-the day of the game i texted her at 1pm and said "i asked my boss and the earliest i can leave is 4:30 today..are there any other games i need to know about rt now so i can make plans for them"
-she responded "i told you Thursday" -which she did not EVER tell me of a nother game other than the one that day!- "..we would gladly take him with us but you didn't approve it. He has to be picked up by 4 or we will take him with us"


all of that is word for word directly from my phone. believe what you want. i feel like MOST of the people that responded to my original post were helpful to me in finding out what is right and wrong, my next step, etc..
  #170  
Old 04-26-2013, 09:31 AM
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1. You provider was wrong. She broke contract. I would not pay if I were you. If she comes after you, you have a very valid reason for not paying. Let the courts figure it out. Even if technically she did nothing wrong according to the county, I would take my chances in court.

2. You NEED a backup babysitter. A high school student, college student, neighbor, etc. to be able to pick your child up in a case of emergency. Not just for silly situations like this, but what if you were in a car accident or stuck in hours of traffic? Your child would be stranded at the providers home. That would not work. You need to make connections in your community to prevent situations like this from happening. Care.com is a nice site for sitters.

3. Find a provider who doesn't go off site ever in a vehicle. Maybe consider a center.

4. While I do understand that you are a single parent, you can't leave your child daycare after they are closed. It doesn't really matter if she told you at 8pm the day before, 8 weeks before, or an hour before. When your daycare is closed, it is closed. You can't just leave the kid there and hope for the best. And I do think it is entirely possible that she just got the schedule. I often get sports schedules at the very last minute -- once even the day OF a game.

5. Communication is key. Stop texting and pick up the phone. If you had said "Sally, I don't want my son going to the game but I can't be there to pick him up on time," she would have said not to bring your child at all that day. And that is her right in her home and business. You were aware of these circumstances upon enrollment.

I really think this entire thing would have not happened if you two had just talked. I don't think this is your fault. I think she should have waited with your child and given you an immediate termination notice. I would NEVER transport without permission.
  #171  
Old 04-26-2013, 09:33 AM
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I am pretty sure this thread has run it's course.

The OP asked for advice and opinions. She has gotten PLENTY!

There is no need for posters to continue posting their opinion repeatedly.

I am pretty sure the OP gets it.

So unless there is more helpful advice to offer, I think we need to leave this thread be.

  #172  
Old 04-26-2013, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kelliott View Post
i am a mother worried about my child..if i wasn't, i would have signed that damn slip without hesitation..and yes, ofcourse i'm trying to get out of this contract with her.. i don't think what she did was right, therefore i should not have to pay for services not rendered to me. this is not a tantrum. a tantrum is what the daycare provider pulled on me the day after, calling me a bitch and a brat. i texted her very respectfully when i let her i know i was pulling my child from her care, and that is what she responded with.

and yes when i let her know i could not leave work early the night before AND the day OF her sons game..she did in fact respond with these exact words "we would gladly take him with us but you didn't approve it. he has to be picked up by 4 or we will take him with us" to that i did not respond-i was at work! by the time i had received that message is was already past 4pm and there was really nothing i could do at that point. her daughter is 22 years old and clained as her "assistant" on all of the daycare forms/contracts so yes, she could have stayed back for 15 minutes.

let me break it down for all of you confused judgemental people:
-i met her before signing up to check out her place and talk with her
-everything seemed fine as far as the baseball issue. she said she would let me know when these games were
-he signed up and was attending for a month and a half and seemed to like it
-at 8pm on tuesday she texted "hi ***** i need you to pick up Caiden tomorrow by 4pm. we have a home baseball game and i noticed that you didn't approve transportation. thank you"
-i responded with "the only way i will be able to arrange that is is Caiden stays with his aunt all day tomorrow..she's 14 and can't drive to pick him up at 4, so if thats the case i don't think i should have to pay for tomorrow with this short of notice." that was the end of the conversation that night
-nothing was said or brought up when i dropped him off. it might had lead her to believe i was going to pick him up and everything was fine, BUT it also lead ME to believe she understood where i was coming from and would not transport him
-the day of the game i texted her at 1pm and said "i asked my boss and the earliest i can leave is 4:30 today..are there any other games i need to know about rt now so i can make plans for them"
-she responded "i told you Thursday" -which she did not EVER tell me of a nother game other than the one that day!- "..we would gladly take him with us but you didn't approve it. He has to be picked up by 4 or we will take him with us"


all of that is word for word directly from my phone. believe what you want. i feel like MOST of the people that responded to my original post were helpful to me in finding out what is right and wrong, my next step, etc..
Oh I believe that what is stated above was the provider's word for word.

Here is my thoughts again:

Provider says:

"hi ***** i need you to pick up Caiden tomorrow by 4pm. we have a home baseball game and i noticed that you didn't approve transportation. thank you"

Mother says:

"the only way i will be able to arrange that is if Caiden stays with his aunt all day tomorrow..she's 14 and can't drive to pick him up at 4, so if thats the case i don't think i should have to pay for tomorrow with this short of notice."

OH WAIT DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!! Mother could have made alternative arrangements but instead chose to ignore the providers original request: I NEED YOU TO PICK UP CAIDEN TOMORROW BY 4PM. Provider was able to provide care for Caiden until 4:00pm that day so no payment should have been refunded. It would have been your choice to not bring him at all.

Provider said:

"i asked my boss and the earliest i can leave is 4:30 today..are there any other games i need to know about rt now so i can make plans for them"

Why did you wait until you were already at work to look for the solution to the problem?

Provider said:

"..we would gladly take him with us but you didn't approve it. He has to be picked up by 4 or we will take him with us"

The fact that you claim you didn't see this message until after 4pm is BS!! You didn't want to see the message bc you had already made up your mind that you weren't going to pick him up.

Again with the questioning of your parenting skills: what would have happened if your child was injured that day and the provider couldn't get ahold of you until after 4:00pm??

Your excuses are pathetic!!
  #173  
Old 04-26-2013, 09:47 AM
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OP you may think my judgements are harsh but remember when and if you take this to court the provider's lawyer is going to bring all of these points up to the judge who is going to judge you on your decisions as well. I honestly think you will lose in court. When lawyers try to get someone off they look at the mistakes the other party made prior to the big "mistake" (transporting without permission) and use those mistakes made by the other party to build their case and get their client off on the main "mistake" (transporting without permission). If a lawyer can prove that the other party made enough mistakes prior to the main mistake the judge will throw all evidence of the main mistake out. The provider's lawyer is going to be quite pleased with the amount of mistakes you made prior. Something to keep in mind.
  #174  
Old 04-26-2013, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Angelwings36 View Post
OP you may think my judgements are harsh but remember when and if you take this to court the provider's lawyer is going to bring all of these points up to the judge who is going to judge you on your decisions as well. I honestly think you will lose in court. When lawyers try to get someone off they look at the mistakes the other party made prior to the big "mistake" (transporting without permission) and use those mistakes made by the other party to build their case and get their client off on the main "mistake" (transporting without permission). If a lawyer can prove that the other party made enough mistakes prior to the main mistake the judge will throw all evidence of the main mistake out. The provider's lawyer is going to be quite pleased with the amount of mistakes you made prior. Something to keep in mind.
Small claims courts here do not allow attorney's to be present.
  #175  
Old 04-26-2013, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Angelwings36 View Post
Oh I believe that what is stated above was the provider's word for word.

Here is my thoughts again:

Provider says:

"hi ***** i need you to pick up Caiden tomorrow by 4pm. we have a home baseball game and i noticed that you didn't approve transportation. thank you"

Mother says:

"the only way i will be able to arrange that is if Caiden stays with his aunt all day tomorrow..she's 14 and can't drive to pick him up at 4, so if thats the case i don't think i should have to pay for tomorrow with this short of notice."

OH WAIT DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!! Mother could have made alternative arrangements but instead chose to ignore the providers original request: I NEED YOU TO PICK UP CAIDEN TOMORROW BY 4PM. Provider was able to provide care for Caiden until 4:00pm that day so no payment should have been refunded. It would have been your choice to not bring him at all.

Provider said:

"i asked my boss and the earliest i can leave is 4:30 today..are there any other games i need to know about rt now so i can make plans for them"

Why did you wait until you were already at work to look for the solution to the problem?

Provider said:

"..we would gladly take him with us but you didn't approve it. He has to be picked up by 4 or we will take him with us"

The fact that you claim you didn't see this message until after 4pm is BS!! You didn't want to see the message bc you had already made up your mind that you weren't going to pick him up.

Again with the questioning of your parenting skills: what would have happened if your child was injured that day and the provider couldn't get ahold of you until after 4:00pm??

Your excuses are pathetic!!
the "aunt" i am referring to above was my son's father's family..who didn't even return a voicemail!!! it was the only alternative i had..and it did not go through

i had no choice but to wait until i was already at work..how am i going to call my work at a time they are closed?!?!

like i said..believe what you want!! i did see the message, but not before she had already transported him in her vehicle!

in the case of an emergency, whether it be regarding my son or myself, my mother would have immediately left work to pick him up.. at the time of signing they ask for emergency contacts for use in a situation where they could not get a hold of me..I.E. the above!!!.. and they have my work number as well...without a response, they should not just assume that means "okay"

a lot of you..actually MOST i'm assuming are mothers in this forum..and if ANYONE were to attack your abilities as a parent, you too, without hesitation, would also go on the defensive!!!! i don't care what you people think about my ability as a mother, a single one at that!.. my son is happy, healthy, and has never had any major injuries. i watch him closely and make sure the daycare's he attends does the same. i simply came here to ask a question, let my situation be known, and get advice... if you arent responding to any of those requests, and those requests ONLY, then keep your comments to yourself
  #176  
Old 04-26-2013, 09:55 AM
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TO THE OP....

I am sorry that some people on here are making such harsh judgments towards you and using words not necessary.

I am really sorry that you have had to go through this experience. Hopefully you can find a daycare provider that will better suit your needs and be more open with you..

I have been in your shoes, I was also a very young single mother. From the sounds of it, you are doing a great job by holding down a job and going to school.

As I said before, really think about finding someone who can help you out in cases of emergency. Imagine if something happened to you and you couldn't get your son from care......

Best of luck to you and your son....Wish I was closer, I would love to help you guys out finding a provider..i'd help you but I transport....
  #177  
Old 04-26-2013, 09:55 AM
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I will repeat post #171

I am pretty sure this thread has run it's course.

The OP asked for advice and opinions. She has gotten PLENTY!

There is no need for posters to continue posting their opinion repeatedly.

I am pretty sure the OP gets it.

So unless there is more helpful advice to offer, I think we need to leave this thread be.

  #178  
Old 04-26-2013, 09:59 AM
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What is frustrating to me is after all of these posts we finally hear a very important missing piece. Mom DID have backup with the aunt she mentioned BUT she didn't want to pay for a day her son wasn't in care. THAT is super important! She chose to take him because she wanted her money's worth and took him knowing in the end what would happen...An earlier thread caught my attention as well regarding the runny nose and if she could get out of the contract. It's almost like she is trying to find a way out without paying the 4 weeks.

The provider should NOT have transported, this is clear but the missing pieces make it obvious to me what was really going on....
  #179  
Old 04-26-2013, 09:59 AM
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Here is Tom Copeland's reply http://daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61919

"The provider violated her agreement with the parent by transporting the child against the express wishes of the parent. What should the provider have done? Called the parent. Called other persons on the authorized list to pick up the child. If this failed, called child protection/police as a last resort.

Rather than call child protection or the police, the provider could have stayed home and waited for the parent. Yes, she misses the ball game, but her primary consideration should be the child. It seems to me a situation where the provider needed to have made better plans with the parent as to what would happen if the parent didn't pick up on time. This could involve identifying a number of other people who could be called to pick up the child in this situation. Or it could be made clear to the parent that the provider would call child protection if the parent didn't fulfill her agreement to pick up the child. Calling the police without a heads up is probably an extreme reaction if the parent doesn't have a warning about it.

I can understand the parent being angry in this situation because the provider went against her express wishes. If this went to court, I think the parent would probably win. If I was the provider I wouldn't try to collect money owed under the contract as this would make the parent even more angry. Angry parents are more likely to spread bad word of mouth. I would let this go and plan ahead more carefully the next time around. "
  #180  
Old 04-26-2013, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kelliott View Post
the "aunt" i am referring to above was my son's father's family..who didn't even return a voicemail!!! it was the only alternative i had..and it did not go through

i had no choice but to wait until i was already at work..how am i going to call my work at a time they are closed?!?!

like i said..believe what you want!! i did see the message, but not before she had already transported him in her vehicle!

in the case of an emergency, whether it be regarding my son or myself, my mother would have immediately left work to pick him up.. at the time of signing they ask for emergency contacts for use in a situation where they could not get a hold of me..I.E. the above!!!.. and they have my work number as well...without a response, they should not just assume that means "okay"

a lot of you..actually MOST i'm assuming are mothers in this forum..and if ANYONE were to attack your abilities as a parent, you too, without hesitation, would also go on the defensive!!!! i don't care what you people think about my ability as a mother, a single one at that!.. my son is happy, healthy, and has never had any major injuries. i watch him closely and make sure the daycare's he attends does the same. i simply came here to ask a question, let my situation be known, and get advice... if you arent responding to any of those requests, and those requests ONLY, then keep your comments to yourself
I was a single mother to a now 8 year old boy for 3 years myself. You can't use that as a crutch.

The facts remain:

Provider told you, you had to pick up your child by 4:00pm. You FAILED to do that. You MADE your provider care for your son who told you she would not be available to help you that day. You left your child with someone who clearly said they couldn't take him unless they transported him. YOU WERE OK WITH THAT.

My ADVICE would be to find a way to work this out in a civil manner with your provider because I believe if she takes you to court she will win. Just my advice.
  #181  
Old 04-26-2013, 10:01 AM
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NeedaVaca NeedaVaca is offline
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Sorry Blackcat was typing when your post was made
  #182  
Old 04-26-2013, 10:01 AM
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Angelwings36 Angelwings36 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Small claims courts here do not allow attorney's to be present.
Oops my mistake. In Canada an attorney can be present in small claims court.
  #183  
Old 04-26-2013, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by kelliott View Post
the "aunt" i am referring to above was my son's father's family..who didn't even return a voicemail!!! it was the only alternative i had..and it did not go through

i had no choice but to wait until i was already at work..how am i going to call my work at a time they are closed?!?!

like i said..believe what you want!! i did see the message, but not before she had already transported him in her vehicle!

in the case of an emergency, whether it be regarding my son or myself, my mother would have immediately left work to pick him up.. at the time of signing they ask for emergency contacts for use in a situation where they could not get a hold of me..I.E. the above!!!.. and they have my work number as well...without a response, they should not just assume that means "okay"

a lot of you..actually MOST i'm assuming are mothers in this forum..and if ANYONE were to attack your abilities as a parent, you too, without hesitation, would also go on the defensive!!!! i don't care what you people think about my ability as a mother, a single one at that!.. my son is happy, healthy, and has never had any major injuries. i watch him closely and make sure the daycare's he attends does the same. i simply came here to ask a question, let my situation be known, and get advice... if you arent responding to any of those requests, and those requests ONLY, then keep your comments to yourself
Oh so you mean your mother could have left work and picked him up by 4:00pm but again another option you didn't use!!
  #184  
Old 04-26-2013, 10:34 AM
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Blackcat31 Blackcat31 is offline
 
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Oh so you mean your mother could have left work and picked him up by 4:00pm but again another option you didn't use!!
...pretty sure you made your point in your other posts.
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