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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Not Potty Trained 3.5 Year Old - WTD ?
blandino 04:06 PM 10-07-2013
I have a new (started the last week of July) DCB who isn't potty trained yet. I know a lot of you deal with children that age who haven't been PT yet, but we have never had a child (without special needs) over the age of 3 and not PT. he was over 3 when he started and mom said they were working on it; normally we don't allow pull-ups but because of his age and DCM said they were working on it we allowed him to continue to wear pull-ups. He has shown no progress since being here, and uses the pull-ups like diapers. I even really wanted to work with him on it, but mom did nothing at home the weekend she was supposed to let him wear cloth training pants.
He arrives at 8ish each morning, and by 9:00 most days he wets through (normally when we get up from Breakfast his shorts are wet). I have him change the pull-ups (pee only) and put them in the diaper pail. Today while changing his pull-up, he peed A TON all over himself and the carpet.
At 3.5 I would expect that his bladder control should be to where he can control urinating for the 1-2 minutes he is not wearing a pull-up. DCM is out of town, and when I told DCD (who babies this DCB beyond belief) he laughed and said "oh, did you have an accident ?". Ummm it isn't what I would call an accident because he isn't even remotely PT and it isn't funny.
DCM said her oldest son was 3.5 when he PT, so I think that is why she is so laid back about it.
Between urinating so much he soaks through, and not being able to hold his bladder while changing a pull-up - I feel like he needs to be in diapers.
I don't know, between this and his parents totaly lack of parenting (no discipline, speech is very behind, eats horribly, has a pacifier) I am just really irritated.
He arrives at 8ish each morning, and by 9:00 most days he wets through (normally when we get up from Breakfast his shorts are wet). I have him change the pull-ups (pee only) and put them in the diaper pail. Today while changing his pull-up, he peed A TON all over himself and the carpet.
At 3.5 I would expect that his bladder control should be to where he can control urinating for the 1-2 minutes he is not wearing a pull-up. DCM is out of town, and when I told DCD (who babies this DCB beyond belief) he laughed and said "oh, did you have an accident ?". Ummm it isn't what I would call an accident because he isn't even remotely PT and it isn't funny.
DCM said her oldest son was 3.5 when he PT, so I think that is why she is so laid back about it.
Between urinating so much he soaks through, and not being able to hold his bladder while changing a pull-up - I feel like he needs to be in diapers.
I don't know, between this and his parents totaly lack of parenting (no discipline, speech is very behind, eats horribly, has a pacifier) I am just really irritated.
Unregistered 04:20 PM 10-07-2013
Originally Posted by blandino:
I have a new (started the last week of July) DCB who isn't potty trained yet. I know a lot of you deal with children that age who haven't been PT yet, but we have never had a child (without special needs) over the age of 3 and not PT. he was over 3 when he started and mom said they were working on it; normally we don't allow pull-ups but because of his age and DCM said they were working on it we allowed him to continue to wear pull-ups. He has shown no progress since being here, and uses the pull-ups like diapers. I even really wanted to work with him on it, but mom did nothing at home the weekend she was supposed to let him wear cloth training pants.
He arrives at 8ish each morning, and by 9:00 most days he wets through (normally when we get up from Breakfast his shorts are wet). I have him change the pull-ups (pee only) and put them in the diaper pail. Today while changing his pull-up, he peed A TON all over himself and the carpet.
At 3.5 I would expect that his bladder control should be to where he can control urinating for the 1-2 minutes he is not wearing a pull-up. DCM is out of town, and when I told DCD (who babies this DCB beyond belief) he laughed and said "oh, did you have an accident ?". Ummm it isn't what I would call an accident because he isn't even remotely PT and it isn't funny.
DCM said her oldest son was 3.5 when he PT, so I think that is why she is so laid back about it.
Between urinating so much he soaks through, and not being able to hold his bladder while changing a pull-up - I feel like he needs to be in diapers.
I don't know, between this and his parents totaly lack of parenting (no discipline, speech is very behind, eats horribly, has a pacifier) I am just really irritated.
First: oh my goodness he still uses a pacifier?!? That is something I refuse to do. A pacifier delays speech and tooth decay. It could also be related to eating. The child would rather suck on it then eat?? I have a new (started the last week of July) DCB who isn't potty trained yet. I know a lot of you deal with children that age who haven't been PT yet, but we have never had a child (without special needs) over the age of 3 and not PT. he was over 3 when he started and mom said they were working on it; normally we don't allow pull-ups but because of his age and DCM said they were working on it we allowed him to continue to wear pull-ups. He has shown no progress since being here, and uses the pull-ups like diapers. I even really wanted to work with him on it, but mom did nothing at home the weekend she was supposed to let him wear cloth training pants.
He arrives at 8ish each morning, and by 9:00 most days he wets through (normally when we get up from Breakfast his shorts are wet). I have him change the pull-ups (pee only) and put them in the diaper pail. Today while changing his pull-up, he peed A TON all over himself and the carpet.
At 3.5 I would expect that his bladder control should be to where he can control urinating for the 1-2 minutes he is not wearing a pull-up. DCM is out of town, and when I told DCD (who babies this DCB beyond belief) he laughed and said "oh, did you have an accident ?". Ummm it isn't what I would call an accident because he isn't even remotely PT and it isn't funny.
DCM said her oldest son was 3.5 when he PT, so I think that is why she is so laid back about it.
Between urinating so much he soaks through, and not being able to hold his bladder while changing a pull-up - I feel like he needs to be in diapers.
I don't know, between this and his parents totaly lack of parenting (no discipline, speech is very behind, eats horribly, has a pacifier) I am just really irritated.
As for the PT that can be a big frustration. A lot of people will disagree with me! I put them in underwear. I have had huge success with difficult PT children just putting them in underwear. I have to be really careful the first few days. Like not sitting on furniture. One of my dcks is almost 5. He will still go in his pull up if he is wearing one but won't go in underwear. Good luck!
blandino 04:23 PM 10-07-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
First: oh my goodness he still uses a pacifier?!? That is something I refuse to do. A pacifier delays speech and tooth decay. It could also be related to eating. The child would rather suck on it then eat??
As for the PT that can be a big frustration. A lot of people will disagree with me! I put them in underwear. I have had huge success with difficult PT children just putting them in underwear. I have to be really careful the first few days. Like not sitting on furniture. One of my dcks is almost 5. He will still go in his pull up if he is wearing one but won't go in underwear. Good luck!
He gets the pacifier at home, but at daycare I make him keep it is his cubby. I let him have it at nap when he was transitioning, but now he doesnt use it. First: oh my goodness he still uses a pacifier?!? That is something I refuse to do. A pacifier delays speech and tooth decay. It could also be related to eating. The child would rather suck on it then eat??
As for the PT that can be a big frustration. A lot of people will disagree with me! I put them in underwear. I have had huge success with difficult PT children just putting them in underwear. I have to be really careful the first few days. Like not sitting on furniture. One of my dcks is almost 5. He will still go in his pull up if he is wearing one but won't go in underwear. Good luck!
See that is totally how I reccomend PT, but I want the parents to start that at home over a weekend and I will continue it over the following week. She was supposed to work on it the first weekend in Oct, but kept him in pull-ups.
JoseyJo 06:48 PM 10-07-2013
I would tell parents for sanitary reasons dcb needs to be in diapers as he is soaking through the pullups. Blame it on licensing if you need to. IMHO if they don't want to pt then that is up to them, but you shouldn't have to suffer for it. Personally I always suggest children stay in diapers until PT and forgo pullups entirely. They can take off/put on a diaper as easily as a pullup if trained how, they cost much less and hold much more.
Cradle2crayons 06:56 PM 10-07-2013
Originally Posted by JoseyJo:
I would tell parents for sanitary reasons dcb needs to be in diapers as he is soaking through the pullups. Blame it on licensing if you need to. IMHO if they don't want to pt then that is up to them, but you shouldn't have to suffer for it. Personally I always suggest children stay in diapers until PT and forgo pullups entirely. They can take off/put on a diaper as easily as a pullup if trained how, they cost much less and hold much more.
I would tell parents for sanitary reasons dcb needs to be in diapers as he is soaking through the pullups. Blame it on licensing if you need to. IMHO if they don't want to pt then that is up to them, but you shouldn't have to suffer for it. Personally I always suggest children stay in diapers until PT and forgo pullups entirely. They can take off/put on a diaper as easily as a pullup if trained how, they cost much less and hold much more.
At 3.5 it would be very unusual that he can't hold his bladder long enough to change pull ups. He may do this on purpose at home and think its funny. I would be sure the parents and child know is isn't funny.
Pull ups aren't allowed at my house AT ALL. EVER. they can use them at home all they want but they wear diapers here until they are dry two weeks.
Can the child verbalized when he has to go??
If he's soaking through a pull-up with ONE urination, then that's proof enough that his bladder holds quite a bit.
During the day, how long does he go between wetting his pull up?
blandino 07:19 PM 10-07-2013
We normally don't allow pull-ups, but I made an exception for this boy because of his age when he started and because DCM said they were working on it. I really thought with his age, that PT would be right around the corner.
And as with most times I bend my rules, I am totally remembering why the rule existed in the first place.
I actually lost a potential client because I didn't allow pull-ups, and I didn't change my tune then - so I am not sure why I did this time. But I am totally regretting it. I LOATHE pull-ups. I have extra size 4 diapers that were donated from a DCG who is potty trained, and I will use those tomorrow. I mean he is leaking through AND I can't even allow him to change a pull-up without risking an accident. I really feel like that is my only choice.
And as with most times I bend my rules, I am totally remembering why the rule existed in the first place.
I actually lost a potential client because I didn't allow pull-ups, and I didn't change my tune then - so I am not sure why I did this time. But I am totally regretting it. I LOATHE pull-ups. I have extra size 4 diapers that were donated from a DCG who is potty trained, and I will use those tomorrow. I mean he is leaking through AND I can't even allow him to change a pull-up without risking an accident. I really feel like that is my only choice.
Angelsj 07:24 PM 10-07-2013
The child needs a medical workup. How in the world is he producing enough urine to wet through a pull up, then still managing to pee everywhere while changing one?
blandino 07:25 PM 10-07-2013
Can the child verbalized when he has to go?? No. The child is severely lacking verbal skills. And does not form sentences with any real content. So expressing that he needs to go isn't something I would really expect of him.
If he's soaking through a pull-up with ONE urination, then that's proof enough that his bladder holds quite a bit. I don't think it is just one urination. I check him whenever I do diaper checks and sometimes he is slightly wet. The consistent soak through happens around 9:00 every morning. I have stopped it sometimes by changing him in between 8:00 (his arrival) and 9:00 diaper changes - but I don't feel like I should need to be so on top of a child's diaper that is that age. KWIM ?
During the day, how long does he go between wetting his pull up? [B]He normally soaks through or is very wet at 9:00 diaper changes, at 11:00 he is normally wet. Pre-nap diaper check at 12:40 he is normally dry, and then I will send him to the toilet if he is just to avoid a nap soak through. And then he normally wets right after nap.
If he's soaking through a pull-up with ONE urination, then that's proof enough that his bladder holds quite a bit. I don't think it is just one urination. I check him whenever I do diaper checks and sometimes he is slightly wet. The consistent soak through happens around 9:00 every morning. I have stopped it sometimes by changing him in between 8:00 (his arrival) and 9:00 diaper changes - but I don't feel like I should need to be so on top of a child's diaper that is that age. KWIM ?
During the day, how long does he go between wetting his pull up? [B]He normally soaks through or is very wet at 9:00 diaper changes, at 11:00 he is normally wet. Pre-nap diaper check at 12:40 he is normally dry, and then I will send him to the toilet if he is just to avoid a nap soak through. And then he normally wets right after nap.
BABYLUVER21 07:56 PM 10-07-2013
Originally Posted by JoseyJo:
I would tell parents for sanitary reasons dcb needs to be in diapers as he is soaking through the pullups. Blame it on licensing if you need to. IMHO if they don't want to pt then that is up to them, but you shouldn't have to suffer for it. Personally I always suggest children stay in diapers until PT and forgo pullups entirely. They can take off/put on a diaper as easily as a pullup if trained how, they cost much less and hold much more.
Agree with this. Also I'd get rid of that binky! Tell them it's not sanitary for him to have anymore because other babies want to take it and they stick in mouths.I would tell parents for sanitary reasons dcb needs to be in diapers as he is soaking through the pullups. Blame it on licensing if you need to. IMHO if they don't want to pt then that is up to them, but you shouldn't have to suffer for it. Personally I always suggest children stay in diapers until PT and forgo pullups entirely. They can take off/put on a diaper as easily as a pullup if trained how, they cost much less and hold much more.
blandino 07:59 PM 10-07-2013
Originally Posted by BABYLUVER21:
Agree with this. Also I'd get rid of that binky! Tell them it's not sanitary for him to have anymore because other babies want to take it and they stick in mouths.
He does not have it at my house. He walks in with it, puts it in his cubby and it comes back up at pick-up. They send it everyday for nap only, even though he walks in using it. But he does fine without it at nap.Agree with this. Also I'd get rid of that binky! Tell them it's not sanitary for him to have anymore because other babies want to take it and they stick in mouths.
Lil'DinoEggs 09:23 PM 10-07-2013
I dislike pullups so much, but I never thought of banning them. I have a new two year old whose parents had in pullups. However, I did not see any evidence that the child wanted to pt. Never said that he had to go potty, has yet to even perform on the potty. Of course, they were only bringing in two pullups a day. I told them they needed a week's worth and that the child goes through five to six a day. They started to look worried and I said, "Look, he isn't interested with me right now. I will continue to sit him on the potty, but save your money and just bring in diapers" They looked so relieved.
I think I might do what some of you do and ban them. Most of the time, the children are wearing such tight clothes anyway that they still need my help to get undress. (that's a whole other issue)
I think I might do what some of you do and ban them. Most of the time, the children are wearing such tight clothes anyway that they still need my help to get undress. (that's a whole other issue)
blandino 09:32 PM 10-07-2013
Originally Posted by Lil'DinoEggs:
I dislike pullups so much, but I never thought of banning them. I have a new two year old whose parents had in pullups. However, I did not see any evidence that the child wanted to pt. Never said that he had to go potty, has yet to even perform on the potty. Of course, they were only bringing in two pullups a day. I told them they needed a week's worth and that the child goes through five to six a day. They started to look worried and I said, "Look, he isn't interested with me right now. I will continue to sit him on the potty, but save your money and just bring in diapers" They looked so relieved.
I think I might do what some of you do and ban them. Most of the time, the children are wearing such tight clothes anyway that they still need my help to get undress. (that's a whole other issue)
I just don't buy into the whole, he/she is 50% potty trained. In most cases I have ever seen, you are either potty trained or not. Patches, calls them a glorified diaper, and I think that is a perfect term. There is no negative feeling when a child wets in them, so why would they stop playing and use the toilet every time ? I have not had one DCK successfully completely potty train in pull-ups.I dislike pullups so much, but I never thought of banning them. I have a new two year old whose parents had in pullups. However, I did not see any evidence that the child wanted to pt. Never said that he had to go potty, has yet to even perform on the potty. Of course, they were only bringing in two pullups a day. I told them they needed a week's worth and that the child goes through five to six a day. They started to look worried and I said, "Look, he isn't interested with me right now. I will continue to sit him on the potty, but save your money and just bring in diapers" They looked so relieved.
I think I might do what some of you do and ban them. Most of the time, the children are wearing such tight clothes anyway that they still need my help to get undress. (that's a whole other issue)
Play Care 03:20 AM 10-08-2013
Honestly, it sounds as if this child has more serious issues then potty training.
My policy is that I typically do not accept new children over the age of 3 who are not potty trained. I'm not saying parents have to train if they feel the child isn't ready, but this is not the child care for them.
With kids who have grown up in my care and are showing signs of readiness I have had great success in just putting them in underwear and having them use the potty at natural transition times (after breakfast, before going outside, before and after naps, etc.) I just make sure to plan a couple of days where I am quite near the child just in case. But usually but that point they are more then ready and the fact is if they do have an accident (especially after being successful for the most part) I am pretty nonchalant about it "that's okay, you'll make it next time!" Once they know I'm not going to break out the diapers they usually get on board very quickly. To me it's worth it as it's one less diaper to change. I usually find we are pretty much done with PT by the end of the week when a child is ready. But all of that is at my discretion. I'm not about to be coerced in to months of potty training because IME that is totally unnecessary.
My policy is that I typically do not accept new children over the age of 3 who are not potty trained. I'm not saying parents have to train if they feel the child isn't ready, but this is not the child care for them.
With kids who have grown up in my care and are showing signs of readiness I have had great success in just putting them in underwear and having them use the potty at natural transition times (after breakfast, before going outside, before and after naps, etc.) I just make sure to plan a couple of days where I am quite near the child just in case. But usually but that point they are more then ready and the fact is if they do have an accident (especially after being successful for the most part) I am pretty nonchalant about it "that's okay, you'll make it next time!" Once they know I'm not going to break out the diapers they usually get on board very quickly. To me it's worth it as it's one less diaper to change. I usually find we are pretty much done with PT by the end of the week when a child is ready. But all of that is at my discretion. I'm not about to be coerced in to months of potty training because IME that is totally unnecessary.
heyhun77 04:47 AM 10-08-2013
Are you trying to pt while he is in your care? I have found with some kids that if you have connected with the child and have a good relationship foundation you can sometimes get them to understand the toilet and with frequent trips to the bathroom eventually they get it. That being said I had one in my classroom last year that we finally got the parents to go through the early intervention services screening and it turns out he was severely delayed in social emotional (which I suspected) and the potty training was most likely part of that. By the time I decided to leave the classroom and come back to home childcare he was just finally getting services so I don't know what interventions they are using with him.
blandino 07:14 AM 10-08-2013
Originally Posted by Play Care:
Honestly, it sounds as if this child has more serious issues then potty training.
My policy is that I typically do not accept new children over the age of 3 who are not potty trained. I'm not saying parents have to train if they feel the child isn't ready, but this is not the child care for them.
With kids who have grown up in my care and are showing signs of readiness I have had great success in just putting them in underwear and having them use the potty at natural transition times (after breakfast, before going outside, before and after naps, etc.) I just make sure to plan a couple of days where I am quite near the child just in case. But usually but that point they are more then ready and the fact is if they do have an accident (especially after being successful for the most part) I am pretty nonchalant about it "that's okay, you'll make it next time!" Once they know I'm not going to break out the diapers they usually get on board very quickly. To me it's worth it as it's one less diaper to change. I usually find we are pretty much done with PT by the end of the week when a child is ready. But all of that is at my discretion. I'm not about to be coerced in to months of potty training because IME that is totally unnecessary.
I would agree that he has a lot more going on. He started with is the last week in July, so I am still getting a grasp on what is going on with him and trying to sort it all out. Honestly, it sounds as if this child has more serious issues then potty training.
My policy is that I typically do not accept new children over the age of 3 who are not potty trained. I'm not saying parents have to train if they feel the child isn't ready, but this is not the child care for them.
With kids who have grown up in my care and are showing signs of readiness I have had great success in just putting them in underwear and having them use the potty at natural transition times (after breakfast, before going outside, before and after naps, etc.) I just make sure to plan a couple of days where I am quite near the child just in case. But usually but that point they are more then ready and the fact is if they do have an accident (especially after being successful for the most part) I am pretty nonchalant about it "that's okay, you'll make it next time!" Once they know I'm not going to break out the diapers they usually get on board very quickly. To me it's worth it as it's one less diaper to change. I usually find we are pretty much done with PT by the end of the week when a child is ready. But all of that is at my discretion. I'm not about to be coerced in to months of potty training because IME that is totally unnecessary.
I am ALL FOR the straight to underwear mentality, but I ask parents to take care of the first few days at home. And his parents didn't do it the weekend we talked about.
Cat Herder 08:22 AM 10-08-2013
Originally Posted by blandino:
Can the child verbalized when he has to go?? No. The child is severely lacking verbal skills. And does not form sentences with any real content. So expressing that he needs to go isn't something I would really expect of him.
The consistent soak through happens around 9:00 every morning. I have stopped it sometimes by changing him in between 8:00 (his arrival) and 9:00 diaper changes - but I don't feel like I should need to be so on top of a child's diaper that is that age. KWIM ?[/b]
He normally soaks through or is very wet at 9:00 diaper changes, at 11:00 he is normally wet. Pre-nap diaper check at 12:40 he is normally dry, and then I will send him to the toilet if he is just to avoid a nap soak through. And then he normally wets right after nap.[/b]
I have a DCK almost like yours except a year older with many other sensory issues. Can the child verbalized when he has to go?? No. The child is severely lacking verbal skills. And does not form sentences with any real content. So expressing that he needs to go isn't something I would really expect of him.
The consistent soak through happens around 9:00 every morning. I have stopped it sometimes by changing him in between 8:00 (his arrival) and 9:00 diaper changes - but I don't feel like I should need to be so on top of a child's diaper that is that age. KWIM ?[/b]
He normally soaks through or is very wet at 9:00 diaper changes, at 11:00 he is normally wet. Pre-nap diaper check at 12:40 he is normally dry, and then I will send him to the toilet if he is just to avoid a nap soak through. And then he normally wets right after nap.[/b]
A diagnosis seems difficult to obtain for his family. IMHO it is my responsibility to be on top of it. I need to help establish a potty routine for my DCK. My hope for him is that one day when the timer goes off, he will already be in the bathroom going potty ON HIS OWN.
It may never happen in my time with him (off to public school next year), but I keep that goal in my head for the days I am "over it" .Yes, it is frustrating and occasionally outright gross (raisin bran muffins anyone
) changing an almost 5YO. 
Personally I'd take your DCB potty at 8:50 and every hour thereafter. I'd keep him in a diaper (no thin, leaking, rash causing, pull-ups) in between. I'd use the potty timer, set for 60 minutes, to alert me since he can't himself.
After a few weeks, reevaluate. Maybe move up to 90 or 120 minutes. I hope he will have much better progress...
blandino 04:56 PM 10-08-2013
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
I have a DCK almost like yours except a year older with many other sensory issues. A diagnosis seems difficult to obtain for his family.
IMHO it is my responsibility to be on top of it. I need to help establish a potty routine for my DCK. My hope for him is that one day when the timer goes off, he will already be in the bathroom going potty ON HIS OWN. It may never happen in my time with him (off to public school next year), but I keep that goal in my head for the days I am "over it" .
Yes, it is frustrating and occasionally outright gross (raisin bran muffins anyone) changing an almost 5YO.
Personally I'd take your DCB potty at 8:50 and every hour thereafter. I'd keep him in a diaper (no thin, leaking, rash causing, pull-ups) in between. I'd use the potty timer, set for 60 minutes, to alert me since he can't himself.
After a few weeks, reevaluate. Maybe move up to 90 or 120 minutes. I hope he will have much better progress...
I can totally get where you are coming from, but I feel like it is DCM's responsibility to be on top of it. To my knowledge her idea of working on PT has been putting him in Pull-ups - I really dot think she has gone beyond that. So for me to be the one on top of it, doesn't feel like my job. I have a DCK almost like yours except a year older with many other sensory issues.
A diagnosis seems difficult to obtain for his family. IMHO it is my responsibility to be on top of it. I need to help establish a potty routine for my DCK. My hope for him is that one day when the timer goes off, he will already be in the bathroom going potty ON HIS OWN.
It may never happen in my time with him (off to public school next year), but I keep that goal in my head for the days I am "over it" .Yes, it is frustrating and occasionally outright gross (raisin bran muffins anyone
) changing an almost 5YO. Personally I'd take your DCB potty at 8:50 and every hour thereafter. I'd keep him in a diaper (no thin, leaking, rash causing, pull-ups) in between. I'd use the potty timer, set for 60 minutes, to alert me since he can't himself.
After a few weeks, reevaluate. Maybe move up to 90 or 120 minutes. I hope he will have much better progress...
Idk. If mom were to come to me with developmental concerns or the results from a screening and then we could arrange special plans for PT DCB, then I would consider timing and reminding him (but I am very specific in my policies that we don't "toilet time" or prod the children into using the toilet.
With, the special needs that I think need to be assessed, it may very we'll be what he needs. But I feel like until DCM and I discuss a plan to address said special needs - I feel like I shouldn't have to alter my polices.
And I can totally see how what I am saying could be interpreted selfishly. But I guess it just hits a nerve the wrong way for me to put in all that extra work when DCM doesn't even acknowledge that there are special needs, let alone work with him at all. Does that make sense from my POV ?
I am not trying to sound aggressive about your post, because it was very helpful. Those are just my honest to god, irritated feelings about the situation.
Oh, and my quote about "being on top of it" meant his diaper changes. I don't feel like I should have to check his pull-up every 15 minutes. Just in case he floods.
blandino 05:02 PM 10-08-2013
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
I have a DCK almost like yours except a year older with many other sensory issues. A diagnosis seems difficult to obtain for his family.
IMHO it is my responsibility to be on top of it. I need to help establish a potty routine for my DCK. My hope for him is that one day when the timer goes off, he will already be in the bathroom going potty ON HIS OWN. It may never happen in my time with him (off to public school next year), but I keep that goal in my head for the days I am "over it" .
Yes, it is frustrating and occasionally outright gross (raisin bran muffins anyone) changing an almost 5YO.
Personally I'd take your DCB potty at 8:50 and every hour thereafter. I'd keep him in a diaper (no thin, leaking, rash causing, pull-ups) in between. I'd use the potty timer, set for 60 minutes, to alert me since he can't himself.
After a few weeks, reevaluate. Maybe move up to 90 or 120 minutes. I hope he will have much better progress...
And I should add, that at the first week of Oct (when they were supposed to work on PT at home over a weekend - but didn't), we tried going every hour and it still wasn't enough - he was still wetting in between. I have a DCK almost like yours except a year older with many other sensory issues.
A diagnosis seems difficult to obtain for his family. IMHO it is my responsibility to be on top of it. I need to help establish a potty routine for my DCK. My hope for him is that one day when the timer goes off, he will already be in the bathroom going potty ON HIS OWN.
It may never happen in my time with him (off to public school next year), but I keep that goal in my head for the days I am "over it" .Yes, it is frustrating and occasionally outright gross (raisin bran muffins anyone
) changing an almost 5YO. Personally I'd take your DCB potty at 8:50 and every hour thereafter. I'd keep him in a diaper (no thin, leaking, rash causing, pull-ups) in between. I'd use the potty timer, set for 60 minutes, to alert me since he can't himself.
After a few weeks, reevaluate. Maybe move up to 90 or 120 minutes. I hope he will have much better progress...
I just don't have enough time/energy to be his personal attendant and remind him more frequently than that. While caring for 6/7 other kids and doing a preschool program. KWIM ?
blandino 05:06 PM 10-08-2013
So today he soaked through his pull-up at 8:30. We had extra size 5s (donated from a previously PT DCG) and I put them on him all day. He went home in one too. I put a note in his daily report saying that the pull-ups are no longer holding the amount of urine he is putting out.
Sunshine75 05:25 PM 10-08-2013
Blandino I totally understand what you are saying. It is frustrating when a parent tells you they are working on it which causes you to think-we can work on it together-only to find out they don't take it seriously and aren't really working on it with him. I would ask how they are working on with him when it comes to PT and present it to them with the angle of.."i just really want to know we are on the same page with how we are going to go about PT him" and see what they say. Anytime you present it to a parent as if you are a team and you are looking out for them is taken better I have found than a negative connotation. Not that you would do that but just saying in my circumstances that is what I have learned. I will tell you that I have two boys and neither of them were potty trained before 3. Not that we didn't try but they simply couldn't express to us that they had to go and didn't care so much that they were wet. They were vocal but I realized that each child "gets it" at different times. Just like tying their shoes or learning multiplication or all the other things they need to learn. They all learn at different times. With my one son we had a reward system and that is what did it. He needed motivation. He is still stubborn (which as he is getting older I am thankful for) and needs much praise.
Cradle2crayons 05:43 PM 10-08-2013
Originally Posted by blandino:
I can totally get where you are coming from, but I feel like it is DCM's responsibility to be on top of it. To my knowledge her idea of working on PT has been putting him in Pull-ups - I really dot think she has gone beyond that. So for me to be the one on top of it, doesn't feel like my job.
Idk. If mom were to come to me with developmental concerns or the results from a screening and then we could arrange special plans for PT DCB, then I would consider timing and reminding him (but I am very specific in my policies that we don't "toilet time" or prod the children into using the toilet.
With, the special needs that I think need to be assessed, it may very we'll be what he needs. But I feel like until DCM and I discuss a plan to address said special needs - I feel like I shouldn't have to alter my polices.
And I can totally see how what I am saying could be interpreted selfishly. But I guess it just hits a nerve the wrong way for me to put in all that extra work when DCM doesn't even acknowledge that there are special needs, let alone work with him at all. Does that make sense from my POV ?
I am not trying to sound aggressive about your post, because it was very helpful. Those are just my honest to god, irritated feelings about the situation.
Oh, and my quote about "being on top of it" meant his diaper changes. I don't feel like I should have to check his pull-up every 15 minutes. Just in case he floods.
ABSOLUTELY 100% agree here.I can totally get where you are coming from, but I feel like it is DCM's responsibility to be on top of it. To my knowledge her idea of working on PT has been putting him in Pull-ups - I really dot think she has gone beyond that. So for me to be the one on top of it, doesn't feel like my job.
Idk. If mom were to come to me with developmental concerns or the results from a screening and then we could arrange special plans for PT DCB, then I would consider timing and reminding him (but I am very specific in my policies that we don't "toilet time" or prod the children into using the toilet.
With, the special needs that I think need to be assessed, it may very we'll be what he needs. But I feel like until DCM and I discuss a plan to address said special needs - I feel like I shouldn't have to alter my polices.
And I can totally see how what I am saying could be interpreted selfishly. But I guess it just hits a nerve the wrong way for me to put in all that extra work when DCM doesn't even acknowledge that there are special needs, let alone work with him at all. Does that make sense from my POV ?
I am not trying to sound aggressive about your post, because it was very helpful. Those are just my honest to god, irritated feelings about the situation.
Oh, and my quote about "being on top of it" meant his diaper changes. I don't feel like I should have to check his pull-up every 15 minutes. Just in case he floods.
I don't do timed potting here and my program isn't set up to provide nanny care to one child whose parents aren't even TRYING to PT.
I wouldn't worry about it for now, don't stress. Put him in diapers, demand they bring them and have one on him at drop off or refuse care for the day.
I'd change him just like I would any other diapered child, while reminding him of potty phrases and words.
Cat Herder 05:44 PM 10-08-2013
Originally Posted by blandino:
With, the special needs that I think need to be assessed, it may very we'll be what he needs. But I feel like until DCM and I discuss a plan to address said special needs - I feel like I shouldn't have to alter my polices.
And I can totally see how what I am saying could be interpreted selfishly. But I guess it just hits a nerve the wrong way for me to put in all that extra work when DCM doesn't even acknowledge that there are special needs, let alone work with him at all. Does that make sense from my POV ?
.
Oh, hun... no. With, the special needs that I think need to be assessed, it may very we'll be what he needs. But I feel like until DCM and I discuss a plan to address said special needs - I feel like I shouldn't have to alter my polices.
And I can totally see how what I am saying could be interpreted selfishly. But I guess it just hits a nerve the wrong way for me to put in all that extra work when DCM doesn't even acknowledge that there are special needs, let alone work with him at all. Does that make sense from my POV ?
.
That was not how I intended it at all... I do not think you are selfish. I am usually very hard on potty training being a parental responsibility, not mine. Almost to a fault. Before my having a dck who could not communicate and having a parent not be able/willing to do the hard work of getting a diagnosis/supports, I felt just like you do now (ask Nan, I talked her ear off about it for almost two years
) It is just than NOW at almost 5 I have come to the realization that I must do the work or let this kid down.
I have guilt that maybe if I took the helm sooner we would not be so behind the ball now.Is it my guilt to carry? No. Will I carry it? Absolutely. This kid was my first like this... normal in so many ways, but then.... YKWIM? It is hard to know where the line is with them.
I had to change my mindset
blandino 05:48 PM 10-08-2013
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
Oh, hun... no. That was not how I intended it at all... I do not think you are selfish. I am usually very hard on potty training being a parental responsibility, not mine. Almost to a fault.
Before my having a dck who could not communicate and having a parent not be able/willing to do the hard work of getting a diagnosis/supports, I felt just like you do now (ask Nan, I talked her ear off about it for almost two years)
It is just than NOW at almost 5 I have come to the realization that I must do the work or let this kid down. I have guilt that maybe if I took the helm sooner we would not be so behind the ball now.
Is it my guilt to carry? No. Will I carry it? Absolutely. This kid was my first like this... normal in so many ways, but then.... YKWIM? It is hard to know where the line is with them.
I had to change my mindset
I didn't think you had taken me that way - I just knew I was about to go on a "my side, my side, my side" tyrade. I just know when you vent like that, it can come out looking like you are selfish. Oh, hun... no.
That was not how I intended it at all... I do not think you are selfish. I am usually very hard on potty training being a parental responsibility, not mine. Almost to a fault. Before my having a dck who could not communicate and having a parent not be able/willing to do the hard work of getting a diagnosis/supports, I felt just like you do now (ask Nan, I talked her ear off about it for almost two years
) It is just than NOW at almost 5 I have come to the realization that I must do the work or let this kid down.
I have guilt that maybe if I took the helm sooner we would not be so behind the ball now.Is it my guilt to carry? No. Will I carry it? Absolutely. This kid was my first like this... normal in so many ways, but then.... YKWIM? It is hard to know where the line is with them.
I had to change my mindset
I TRULY appreciate your point of view.
daycare 05:56 PM 10-08-2013
I have not read many of the responses, but several of the boys in my group do not even try to potty train until about 3-3.5.
Honestly, it was becuase the parents were not doing anything to help me or their child with the process.
I have one right now that sounds like your child's twin. Same age, is also still on the paci (only at home I don't do paci here) wears undies all day here, but as soon as he gets home he won't poo until mom puts a pull up on him.
I have another one that comes back every monday untrained. Monday kid shows up in pull ups, I put back in underwear and By Friday we are all good to go, just to start over on monday again.
I think you need to have a talk with mom
Honestly, it was becuase the parents were not doing anything to help me or their child with the process.
I have one right now that sounds like your child's twin. Same age, is also still on the paci (only at home I don't do paci here) wears undies all day here, but as soon as he gets home he won't poo until mom puts a pull up on him.
I have another one that comes back every monday untrained. Monday kid shows up in pull ups, I put back in underwear and By Friday we are all good to go, just to start over on monday again.
I think you need to have a talk with mom
blandino 09:45 PM 10-08-2013
Originally Posted by daycare:
I have not read many of the responses, but several of the boys in my group do not even try to potty train until about 3-3.5.
I have had a lot of kids wait until right at their 3rd birthday, but he is 41 months now, and he isn't even there at all. Normally my kids who wait until closer to 3, are still in the ballpark and you can see them getting closer and closer. Honestly, I just don't see it in the immediate future. DCM has an older son who she says was 3.5 when he potty trained, so I think that's why she doesn't see it being an issue. But I really think that 3.5 is going to come and go without any progress. I have not read many of the responses, but several of the boys in my group do not even try to potty train until about 3-3.5.
He has only been here two months, so we are still figuring out what issues exist because they haven't been worked on, and what is an actual delay.
daycare 07:47 AM 10-09-2013
Originally Posted by blandino:
I have had a lot of kids wait until right at their 3rd birthday, but he is 41 months now, and he isn't even there at all. Normally my kids who wait until closer to 3, are still in the ballpark and you can see them getting closer and closer. Honestly, I just don't see it in the immediate future. DCM has an older son who she says was 3.5 when he potty trained, so I think that's why she doesn't see it being an issue. But I really think that 3.5 is going to come and go without any progress.
He has only been here two months, so we are still figuring out what issues exist because they haven't been worked on, and what is an actual delay.
Unlike most other providers here, I do most of the PT.I have had a lot of kids wait until right at their 3rd birthday, but he is 41 months now, and he isn't even there at all. Normally my kids who wait until closer to 3, are still in the ballpark and you can see them getting closer and closer. Honestly, I just don't see it in the immediate future. DCM has an older son who she says was 3.5 when he potty trained, so I think that's why she doesn't see it being an issue. But I really think that 3.5 is going to come and go without any progress.
He has only been here two months, so we are still figuring out what issues exist because they haven't been worked on, and what is an actual delay.
the kids are with me more waking hours than the parents, so I do what works best for me here. I think of it as one less diaper to change.
One thing that I have noticed, is that in the last 3 years, most of the boys in my care are not potty trained until sometimes as late as 4.5. I even had one child who was 5 that was not potty trained at all. I termed care with that family when the parents told me that the child suffered from genetic laziness. LOL NO JOKE, that is what they told me.
I have a potty training contact agreement. With some parents it works great and in 3-5 days we are 100% potty trained. The I have some parents that don't do anything about it at all. They don't provide the right clothing, the right supplies and so on.
I have had two boys here that took almost 9 months to potty train. VERY frustrating.
If I see no progress, I stop. I put the child back to square 1. It's not our fault or theirs, the child is just not ready. I have them try hard for 1 full week, if I see zero to little progress, we put the child back in a pull up and stop having them PT. I will however, require the child to go into the bathroom and do as much of the toileting they can unassisted. Of course I am in there with them, but let them do as much as they can. At this point, I am only making sure they are getting on the toilet during designated toilet times, sitting on the pot, flushing, pants up and down, washing hands. (of course not in that order, lol)
I stop for about a good 2-3 weeks, give the kid a break and then try again. Rinse and repeat.
BUT if the parents are not helping you, then really there will not be too much that you can do about it. It's up to you to decide if you want to try to potty train them on your own. I have done it, sometimes it works, sometimes it does not.
I feel your pain, it is frustrating. Keep your head up, things always get better....
daycarediva 09:48 AM 10-09-2013
Originally Posted by JoseyJo:
I would tell parents for sanitary reasons dcb needs to be in diapers as he is soaking through the pullups. Blame it on licensing if you need to. IMHO if they don't want to pt then that is up to them, but you shouldn't have to suffer for it. Personally I always suggest children stay in diapers until PT and forgo pullups entirely. They can take off/put on a diaper as easily as a pullup if trained how, they cost much less and hold much more.
I would tell parents for sanitary reasons dcb needs to be in diapers as he is soaking through the pullups. Blame it on licensing if you need to. IMHO if they don't want to pt then that is up to them, but you shouldn't have to suffer for it. Personally I always suggest children stay in diapers until PT and forgo pullups entirely. They can take off/put on a diaper as easily as a pullup if trained how, they cost much less and hold much more.
diapers, for SURE!
I have it in my PH that if a child is not FULLY PT by age 4, I require a developmental evaluation to rule out underlying causes or medical issues. This has SAVED MY BUTT a few times when a kid with developmental concerns is pushing it in terms of age/ability. I WILL term an older child who has parents not even on board or working with me to address it.
I have a dcb in care who was 3.5 and not PT, but it was a medical issue that I had to FORCE them to seek a dx for. He has since had surgery (narrow ureters, he never could completely empty his bladder and was constantly leaking urine, couldn't control it anymore, etc) he was 100% trained within a week of the surgery.
Like daycare, I do a LOT of the pting and pushing of parents. I have one kid not PT'ed right now, and he is 18m. The rest are JUST 2-4.5 and only one needs a pullup at nap (also the only time I allow pullups). I see late potty training as parental laziness for the more part nowadays. Around 2, most kids are ready.
I completely get your frustration over the situation. With this kid though, PT seems to be the symptom of a much bigger issue. Have you voiced concerns over his developmental issues to Mom? At 3.5, not being able to speak a sentence is a large delay, imho and he needs services immediately.
blandino 11:20 AM 10-09-2013
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
diapers, for SURE!
I have it in my PH that if a child is not FULLY PT by age 4, I require a developmental evaluation to rule out underlying causes or medical issues. This has SAVED MY BUTT a few times when a kid with developmental concerns is pushing it in terms of age/ability. I WILL term an older child who has parents not even on board or working with me to address it.
I have a dcb in care who was 3.5 and not PT, but it was a medical issue that I had to FORCE them to seek a dx for. He has since had surgery (narrow ureters, he never could completely empty his bladder and was constantly leaking urine, couldn't control it anymore, etc) he was 100% trained within a week of the surgery.
Like daycare, I do a LOT of the pting and pushing of parents. I have one kid not PT'ed right now, and he is 18m. The rest are JUST 2-4.5 and only one needs a pullup at nap (also the only time I allow pullups). I see late potty training as parental laziness for the more part nowadays. Around 2, most kids are ready.
I completely get your frustration over the situation. With this kid though, PT seems to be the symptom of a much bigger issue. Have you voiced concerns over his developmental issues to Mom? At 3.5, not being able to speak a sentence is a large delay, imho and he needs services immediately.
diapers, for SURE!
I have it in my PH that if a child is not FULLY PT by age 4, I require a developmental evaluation to rule out underlying causes or medical issues. This has SAVED MY BUTT a few times when a kid with developmental concerns is pushing it in terms of age/ability. I WILL term an older child who has parents not even on board or working with me to address it.
I have a dcb in care who was 3.5 and not PT, but it was a medical issue that I had to FORCE them to seek a dx for. He has since had surgery (narrow ureters, he never could completely empty his bladder and was constantly leaking urine, couldn't control it anymore, etc) he was 100% trained within a week of the surgery.
Like daycare, I do a LOT of the pting and pushing of parents. I have one kid not PT'ed right now, and he is 18m. The rest are JUST 2-4.5 and only one needs a pullup at nap (also the only time I allow pullups). I see late potty training as parental laziness for the more part nowadays. Around 2, most kids are ready.
I completely get your frustration over the situation. With this kid though, PT seems to be the symptom of a much bigger issue. Have you voiced concerns over his developmental issues to Mom? At 3.5, not being able to speak a sentence is a large delay, imho and he needs services immediately.
I haven't voiced concerns yet, because he is so new - I am trying to separate what is a delay and what hasn't been worked with. His last "daycare" was a grandmother type who only had him and from my conclusions there was NO structure and a lot of TV. I really feel like he was left to his own devices while she carried on with her business in the house. DCM told us she wanted to retire, but they begged her to keep him. So I think we all know how much attention someone who really doesn't want to be doing this anymore is going to pay. So I feel like that has definitely hindered development, although not I the point where he can't form a sentence.
So I feel like I am still feeling this kid out. We have loved leaps and bounds in two months as far as eating, social skills, paci use, etc.
Last weekend at a birthday party, I realized that DCM can't understand his speech and that was definitely a big red flag for me. So I am definitely planning on having a sit down with her, but I am just getting to the point where I feel like I know him enough to really know his delays.
Candy 05:15 PM 10-09-2013
I personally wouldn't have taken him. Have you seen some 3 year olds they are huge and I just can't see myself picking up on one of them to change them. I must say I did love the pull ups cool alert they worked wonderful. I Would give her a date that he has to PT or I would term him.
blandino 04:38 PM 10-11-2013
UPDATE
The next day he flooded his pull-up at 7:45 am.
DCM came back into town the next morning. She said that DCD wasn't having him go the the bathroom after he woke up in the morning. The next two days all was good, he stayed dry for long periods of time and I would send him to the potty. And both days he left in the same pull-up he came in.
Today, He used the bathroom at 12:00 and again at 3:30, at 4:30 he peed so much that it came out of the pull-up soaked his clothes and ran down his legs onto the carpet. He doesn't tell anyone he is wetting, and pees on the toys too.
This would be the 4th time that he has gotten pee on the carpet this week.
So when she came in, we told her that he needed diapers. She was angry. She said that when he comes home from daycare sometimes his pull-up is on inside out and that is why he is soaking through. We explained that he goes into the bathroom by himself, so he might put his pull-up on inside out but that isn't why he is soaking through. She said she would bring diapers, but wasn't happy about it. She also said that he was almost potty trained when she started with us in August (DCB was 3 years 3 months and wearing pull-ups at that time). He has never once asked to use the toilet in 2.5 months. So she was upset, but we emphasized the hygienic issue and that we simply can't have a child getting pee all over the floor.
The next day he flooded his pull-up at 7:45 am.
DCM came back into town the next morning. She said that DCD wasn't having him go the the bathroom after he woke up in the morning. The next two days all was good, he stayed dry for long periods of time and I would send him to the potty. And both days he left in the same pull-up he came in.
Today, He used the bathroom at 12:00 and again at 3:30, at 4:30 he peed so much that it came out of the pull-up soaked his clothes and ran down his legs onto the carpet. He doesn't tell anyone he is wetting, and pees on the toys too.
This would be the 4th time that he has gotten pee on the carpet this week.
So when she came in, we told her that he needed diapers. She was angry. She said that when he comes home from daycare sometimes his pull-up is on inside out and that is why he is soaking through. We explained that he goes into the bathroom by himself, so he might put his pull-up on inside out but that isn't why he is soaking through. She said she would bring diapers, but wasn't happy about it. She also said that he was almost potty trained when she started with us in August (DCB was 3 years 3 months and wearing pull-ups at that time). He has never once asked to use the toilet in 2.5 months. So she was upset, but we emphasized the hygienic issue and that we simply can't have a child getting pee all over the floor.
daycare 04:43 PM 10-11-2013
Originally Posted by blandino:
UPDATE
The next day he flooded his pull-up at 7:45 am.
DCM came back into town the next morning. She said that DCD wasn't having him go the the bathroom after he woke up in the morning. The next two days all was good, he stayed dry for long periods of time and I would send him to the potty. And both days he left in the same pull-up he came in.
Today, He used the bathroom at 12:00 and again at 3:30, at 4:30 he peed so much that it came out of the pull-up soaked his clothes and ran down his legs onto the carpet. He doesn't tell anyone he is wetting, and pees on the toys too.
This would be the 4th time that he has gotten pee on the carpet this week.
So when she came in, we told her that he needed diapers. She was angry. She said that when he comes home from daycare sometimes his pull-up is on inside out and that is why he is soaking through. We explained that he goes into the bathroom by himself, so he might put his pull-up on inside out but that isn't why he is soaking through. She said she would bring diapers, but wasn't happy about it. She also said that he was almost potty trained when she started with us in August (DCB was 3 years 3 months and wearing pull-ups at that time). He has never once asked to use the toilet in 2.5 months. So she was upset, but we emphasized the hygienic issue and that we simply can't have a child getting pee all over the floor.
I have a kid that did the pull up inside out and it went all over the place too.UPDATE
The next day he flooded his pull-up at 7:45 am.
DCM came back into town the next morning. She said that DCD wasn't having him go the the bathroom after he woke up in the morning. The next two days all was good, he stayed dry for long periods of time and I would send him to the potty. And both days he left in the same pull-up he came in.
Today, He used the bathroom at 12:00 and again at 3:30, at 4:30 he peed so much that it came out of the pull-up soaked his clothes and ran down his legs onto the carpet. He doesn't tell anyone he is wetting, and pees on the toys too.
This would be the 4th time that he has gotten pee on the carpet this week.
So when she came in, we told her that he needed diapers. She was angry. She said that when he comes home from daycare sometimes his pull-up is on inside out and that is why he is soaking through. We explained that he goes into the bathroom by himself, so he might put his pull-up on inside out but that isn't why he is soaking through. She said she would bring diapers, but wasn't happy about it. She also said that he was almost potty trained when she started with us in August (DCB was 3 years 3 months and wearing pull-ups at that time). He has never once asked to use the toilet in 2.5 months. So she was upset, but we emphasized the hygienic issue and that we simply can't have a child getting pee all over the floor.
I try to explain to the parents that DC is so much different than home. there are so many distractions here and that sometimes it is very difficult for the kids to break away from what they are doing to use the toilet. It really does take self discipline.
I am sure you already told her that stuff, but good for you for putting your foot down.
blandino 09:38 PM 10-13-2013
Tomorrow is the first day DCB was supposed to bring diapers and is now sick, and will be staying home tomorrow. 
EntropyControlSpecialist 12:13 PM 10-14-2013
Goodness gracious.
Here it is so common for boys to be potty trained around 3 1/2. I definitely agree with whoever said it is parental laziness. It has nothing to do with the kids abilities at all. I also do not do any potty training here and if you have 2 accidents in one week you get plastic pants over your underwear (some kids get the plastic pants after 1 accident because they are very capable of going t to the restroom and choose not to). They hate that and I have less accidents. Hopefully that mom potty trains him soon and you can be done with the flooding.
Here it is so common for boys to be potty trained around 3 1/2. I definitely agree with whoever said it is parental laziness. It has nothing to do with the kids abilities at all. I also do not do any potty training here and if you have 2 accidents in one week you get plastic pants over your underwear (some kids get the plastic pants after 1 accident because they are very capable of going t to the restroom and choose not to). They hate that and I have less accidents. Hopefully that mom potty trains him soon and you can be done with the flooding.