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  #1  
Old 07-29-2013, 02:33 PM
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Default Still Biting

I need help again with my biter. He has a pacifier now that is in almost every min. while he is here. He is so quick to bite that I rarely ever see it happen...mostly to just the same kid over and over; today--middle of the back last week on the face. The victim is almost 18 mos and the biter will be 2 in Nov.I can't term cause this fam also has a SA and are a main source of income since dear hubby was forced to retire( no benefits) 3 yrs ago and has not found anything yet.I separate as much as possible but then I have to climb over the gates all day. This little guy is now hitting all of us too. Besides having his own play space(which cuts down on how much room the rest have) what do you all suggest...he has almost all his teeth; it is not teething. Thanks I'm hoping that my vacay time starting soon will help him get past this but I'm not sure.It sure makes me feel inept that I can't stop this behavior.
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Old 07-29-2013, 03:24 PM
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You can term. If you don't term the biter, the parents of the victim are likely to term you. Which would you rather keep?
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Old 07-29-2013, 03:27 PM
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You can term. If you don't term the biter, the parents of the victim are likely to term you. Which would you rather keep?
I agree....... don't risk losing a good client by keeping this child. You will have to make some changes to your personal spending until you are able to replace the child.

No way in the world would I keep sending my kid back to a child care where they kept getting bit over and over again......

Sometimes the only thing that we can do is get them into a different environment, which means removing them from our program........
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Old 07-29-2013, 03:27 PM
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You can term. If you don't term the biter, the parents of the victim are likely to term you. Which would you rather keep?
You need to interview for his space but if you can't keep the bitee safe, the biter NEEDS to go. It is NOT acceptable for this child to be repeatedly bitten like that.

In the meantime, this child is NEVER, EVER out of arms reach or physically capable of reaching another child. Gates, a play yard, depending on regs where you are a high chair or pack and play for your potty breaks.
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Old 07-29-2013, 03:33 PM
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This won't be much help, but I had that same kid-except he was just 17 months old and targeted my little one the same age who has developmental delays and is not capable of defending himself. Did the pacifier, but like yours, he popped it out, bit, and popped it back in. When he wasn't close enough to bite, he pinched and pulled hair. I've isolated, etc. Even though I really need to keep him (it took 8 months to fill that space), I had made up my mind to term him. Before I could, his mom gave notice that they were moving away at the end of this month. Of course, in the last week, he hasn't bit or hit or pinched a single time and has been a complete joy to have around. Now I'm glad I didn't term him and sorry to see him go. I had given up on him ever stopping. It took 3 months of constant supervision, but it seems the worst is over. I guess his new provider will reap the benefits of all my hard work.

I will add that only a couple of the bites were bad-1 left a bruise but didn't break skin. I was always hovering enough to break it up before it got too deep. Mom of the victim was very calm about it. I told her the first time it happened that I would term him. She said not to-one of her's was a biter too , although not to this degree. I explained how I was handling it and said that one word from her and he was gone. I told the biter's mom the same thing. She was very concerned and cooperative, and because the 3 of us talked every day, we were able to get through it with no bad feelings. I'm really lucky to have calm mommas.

Last edited by Sunchimes; 07-29-2013 at 03:38 PM. Reason: add something
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by sly red cid View Post
I need help again with my biter. He has a pacifier now that is in almost every min. while he is here. He is so quick to bite that I rarely ever see it happen...mostly to just the same kid over and over; today--middle of the back last week on the face. The victim is almost 18 mos and the biter will be 2 in Nov.I can't term cause this fam also has a SA and are a main source of income since dear hubby was forced to retire( no benefits) 3 yrs ago and has not found anything yet.I separate as much as possible but then I have to climb over the gates all day. This little guy is now hitting all of us too. Besides having his own play space(which cuts down on how much room the rest have) what do you all suggest...he has almost all his teeth; it is not teething. Thanks I'm hoping that my vacay time starting soon will help him get past this but I'm not sure.It sure makes me feel inept that I can't stop this behavior.
You CAN term, and you SHOULD term. If you don't, the victims parents have a serious issue and YOU will be held liable. We all understand financial issues, but unfortunately, the victims parents may not understand.

Can you advertise for this spot??
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Old 07-30-2013, 05:14 AM
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I had to term a biter. He was the best little boy except for biting & he always went after the same little girl. I needed the money, but I though about the little girl was going though. If I was here mom I would be peeved to no end. He HAD to go.
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Old 07-30-2013, 07:04 AM
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Toddlers bite for all sorts of reasons. This doesn't make it okay, but it is typical behavior. It's ugly and primal, and it's a PITA to deal with!


Sounds like your little guy is biting because he doesn't have the tools to communicate otherwise. The back-biting especially gives me a clue. For some toddlers, it's their way of saying "hey, come play with me...don't go" Obviously not the way you or I would communicate that, but to a child that age, a hand or a mouth are not so different.

In addition to the pacifier and own-area time, I think it would be helpful to teach all your kiddos some simple baby signs like "please", "more", "play".

I would do some floor time with him periodically throughout the day, where you are RIGHT next to him, and you help him negotiate the social scene. If he goes to grab a toy, you say "you want the truck, you want to play (give the sign) with the truck", or if you don't want to do the signs, just over-enunciate the word play and encourage him to say it. If he goes to bite, get your hand over his mouth and say "NO...biting hurts your friends. Bite THIS (pacifier)".

A couple 10-15minute periods a day where you do this will help him enormously. Because, right now, you're taking away opportunities for him to bite, but you are also taking away the opportunities to learn what he CAN do, kwim? If he's isolated, he can't make progress learning the skills. You are only avoiding the biting.

When your time is up, get him involved in another activity in his "area" before you move on, if possible. It's not supposed to be a punishment, it's supposed to be a tool for you to prevent biting.
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Old 07-30-2013, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Heidi View Post
Toddlers bite for all sorts of reasons. This doesn't make it okay, but it is typical behavior. It's ugly and primal, and it's a PITA to deal with!


Sounds like your little guy is biting because he doesn't have the tools to communicate otherwise. The back-biting especially gives me a clue. For some toddlers, it's their way of saying "hey, come play with me...don't go" Obviously not the way you or I would communicate that, but to a child that age, a hand or a mouth are not so different.

In addition to the pacifier and own-area time, I think it would be helpful to teach all your kiddos some simple baby signs like "please", "more", "play".

I would do some floor time with him periodically throughout the day, where you are RIGHT next to him, and you help him negotiate the social scene. If he goes to grab a toy, you say "you want the truck, you want to play (give the sign) with the truck", or if you don't want to do the signs, just over-enunciate the word play and encourage him to say it. If he goes to bite, get your hand over his mouth and say "NO...biting hurts your friends. Bite THIS (pacifier)".

A couple 10-15minute periods a day where you do this will help him enormously. Because, right now, you're taking away opportunities for him to bite, but you are also taking away the opportunities to learn what he CAN do, kwim? If he's isolated, he can't make progress learning the skills. You are only avoiding the biting.

When your time is up, get him involved in another activity in his "area" before you move on, if possible. It's not supposed to be a punishment, it's supposed to be a tool for you to prevent biting.
I could see trying what Heidi says, however, I think you are way past this point, as it has happened way too many times already and you can't let it happen again.

But that's just me. It's your call. Can you afford to take another chance of letting this kid bite another kid again is what I would be asking myself. Right now there is nothing that can guarantee that no one will get bit again except for removing the bitter.

You're in a hard situation My heart goes out to you. Good luck.
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  #10  
Old 07-30-2013, 08:13 AM
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NO!!!! It is NOT typical behavior! If it were typical every kid that passes through our door would do it. Please do not accept it as typical behavior.
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  #11  
Old 07-30-2013, 08:48 AM
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NO!!!! It is NOT typical behavior! If it were typical every kid that passes through our door would do it. Please do not accept it as typical behavior.
Maybe typical is not the right word. It is NOT ok, I am absolutely not saying that. But, it is not uncommon. I don't have any statistics, only anecdotal data here, but I don't know a single daycare provider (and I've know a lot of them in 23 years) who hasn't had one or two biters.

People can term every kiddo that bites if they don't want to deal with it. That's fine. But, OP said this is not an option. I have a kiddo now that age that was a biter for about 2-3 weeks. But, doing the above (my other post) got us through it, and it hasn't happened in 6 or 8 weeks now. It CAN be managed. In my case, the other family was not happy either, but I assured them that I was working on it, and if I felt like I couldn't conquer it, the biter would be terminated (I only have 2 toddlers, so the culprit was pretty obvious in this case).

Sometimes, we all get a little carried away with the term, term, term thing. There are situations where we should term (I've termed 3 families in the last 2 1/2 years, each for different reasons). But, if OP is in a situation where that is not a valid option, then I would like to give her some ideas on how to fix the problem, if possible.

Again, just because it's happens with a lot of toddlers does not mean I am saying it's OK. Toddlers hoard toys, toddlers hit, toddlers throw food, toddlers climb on furniture, eat dog food, play in the toilet, and generally get into stuff they shouldn't, and sometimes, toddlers bite. None of this is okay in my house, but it's my job to teach them, right?
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Old 07-30-2013, 08:54 AM
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I had a little guy who was trying the biting here last year. 18 months old. He was trying to bite ME.

Found out Mom, Dad and teenaged sisters thought it was "cute" and "funny" and he was just playing. I informed them that if there was ONE MORE, they would be termed immediately. They didn't think it was so funny anymore. NEVER happened again.

There needs to be swift, clear consequences for it. No "oh, honey, we don't bite" crap. A loud, firm NO!!!!! NO!!!!! We do NOT bite!!!! and removed from the group.

I don't care WHY the biting is happening. It will not be tolerated here. My job is to protect all of the children. Putting up with two, three weeks of it is FAR to much, IMHO.

A bite on the face, and knowing it wasn't the first bite,......as a parent, I would be off the wall LIVID and would pull my kid immediately and inform licensing that the provider has continued to care for a biter, putting other children at risk.

No way, no how, uh uh.
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Old 07-30-2013, 09:02 AM
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Maybe typical is not the right word. It is NOT ok, I am absolutely not saying that. But, it is not uncommon. I don't have any statistics, only anecdotal data here, but I don't know a single daycare provider (and I've know a lot of them in 23 years) who hasn't had one or two biters.

People can term every kiddo that bites if they don't want to deal with it. That's fine. But, OP said this is not an option. I have a kiddo now that age that was a biter for about 2-3 weeks. But, doing the above (my other post) got us through it, and it hasn't happened in 6 or 8 weeks now. It CAN be managed. In my case, the other family was not happy either, but I assured them that I was working on it, and if I felt like I couldn't conquer it, the biter would be terminated (I only have 2 toddlers, so the culprit was pretty obvious in this case).

Sometimes, we all get a little carried away with the term, term, term thing. There are situations where we should term (I've termed 3 families in the last 2 1/2 years, each for different reasons). But, if OP is in a situation where that is not a valid option, then I would like to give her some ideas on how to fix the problem, if possible.

Again, just because it's happens with a lot of toddlers does not mean I am saying it's OK. Toddlers hoard toys, toddlers hit, toddlers throw food, toddlers climb on furniture, eat dog food, play in the toilet, and generally get into stuff they shouldn't, and sometimes, toddlers bite. None of this is okay in my house, but it's my job to teach them, right?
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:31 AM
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Default still biting

Thanks Heidi good to see someone on my side! I know that terming would not stop the biting. I know it's a phase,etc. His sister was my first biter and she eventually got verbal enough and older and it stopped.The victim is usually in the biters "space" so I am on these two like a hawk but the biter is so quick i don't even see him remove his plug and put it back, and the victim hardly ever complains..His parents are the best about all this so it does help. I know Biter Mom gets more upset.I do the stern, loud verbal "No" and remove/redirect and all the 'right' stuff with biter when it happens. And if I could afford to term I still don't think that is the true ansewer .........thanks for all the input.
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:49 AM
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Curious OP, WHY is terming not an option?
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Old 07-30-2013, 11:15 AM
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Curious OP, WHY is terming not an option?
I think she said money.
Not trying to be mean, no dollar amount is worth having your child being bitten. Sorry, If my child was the target, I would be shopping for a safe haven for my child. It's a personal choice though. Choose, but choose wisely...

Last edited by coolconfidentme; 07-30-2013 at 11:38 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 07-30-2013, 11:26 AM
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I think she said money.
Not trying to be mean, no dollar amount is worth having your child being bitten. Sorry, If my child was the target, I would be shopping for a save haven for my child. It's a personal choice though. Choose, but choose wisely...
That is what I was wondering.

All too often providers feel as though money is what ultimately decides their fate.

If you absolutely won't term due to money, they you just have to deal with whatever comes your way.

If money is not a mitigating factor in your decisions to care for, enroll and/or term children then this would be an easy situation.

When money comes into play, your hands are tied.
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Old 07-30-2013, 11:27 AM
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Thanks Heidi good to see someone on my side! I know that terming would not stop the biting. I know it's a phase,etc. His sister was my first biter and she eventually got verbal enough and older and it stopped.The victim is usually in the biters "space" so I am on these two like a hawk but the biter is so quick i don't even see him remove his plug and put it back, and the victim hardly ever complains..His parents are the best about all this so it does help. I know Biter Mom gets more upset.I do the stern, loud verbal "No" and remove/redirect and all the 'right' stuff with biter when it happens. And if I could afford to term I still don't think that is the true ansewer .........thanks for all the input.
I am not "not" on your side. I just do not understand why you would continue to care for a child who is continuously biting. You say his sister did it and "eventually" got better. That kind of attitude and acceptance of something that is so terribly painful and inappropriate will eventually catch up with you when a parent gets pissed that their kid is continuously bitten and they turn you in for allowing it. And, by not removing the biter, you ARE allowing it. Your vigilance at watching the child like a hawk is CLEARLY not working. Trust me, eventually it WILL come back to "bite" you.
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Old 07-30-2013, 11:38 AM
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I think she said money.
Not trying to be mean, no dollar amount is worth having your child being bitten. Sorry, If my child was the target, I would be shopping for a save haven for my child. It's a personal choice though. Choose, but choose wisely...
No, I get that. I know you wouldn't be mean, anyway.

The thing is, the "bite's" family could term (although it sounds like OP is communicating well). But, what if they get to the next daycare, and there is a biter there? They give the biter a little time, and in the meantime, bitee get's nailed 3 or times. So, they move kiddo again. Taking your child out of a daycare where they get bitten a few times is not necessarily going to solve the problem, although I get why someone would want to.

I just got a call from a lady who was leaving her daycare because her 2 year old was getting hit by another child. Maybe there was a lack of supervision, maybe not. I have no idea. I did tell her that it is a common problem with 2 year olds. If she's changing daycares (for the 3rd time in 2 years, from the sounds of it), she's not always solving the problem.

At some point, we as providers need the tools to deal with these situations. We can't term every misbehaved child that we get. Some, we have to try to deal with. To me, it's part of our job. When I worked in a bank, I had to deal with crabby customers. Sometimes people were completely unreasonable, but I couldn't say "piss off"...lol. I thought it sometimes, though.
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Old 07-30-2013, 11:54 AM
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No, I get that. I know you wouldn't be mean, anyway.

The thing is, the "bite's" family could term (although it sounds like OP is communicating well). But, what if they get to the next daycare, and there is a biter there? They give the biter a little time, and in the meantime, bitee get's nailed 3 or times. So, they move kiddo again. Taking your child out of a daycare where they get bitten a few times is not necessarily going to solve the problem, although I get why someone would want to.

I just got a call from a lady who was leaving her daycare because her 2 year old was getting hit by another child. Maybe there was a lack of supervision, maybe not. I have no idea. I did tell her that it is a common problem with 2 year olds. If she's changing daycares (for the 3rd time in 2 years, from the sounds of it), she's not always solving the problem.

At some point, we as providers need the tools to deal with these situations. We can't term every misbehaved child that we get. Some, we have to try to deal with. To me, it's part of our job. When I worked in a bank, I had to deal with crabby customers. Sometimes people were completely unreasonable, but I couldn't say "piss off"...lol. I thought it sometimes, though.
I agree that moving the victim won't resolve the biter's problem. But as a parent, I wouldn't CARE about the biter's problem being resolved, and I certainly wouldn't allow my child to continue being bitten for the sake of helping resolve the biter's problem. A bite on my child's face, after she had already been bitten by the same child before would send me into a fit.

As a provider I would care that the victim's parents were removing a child who doesn't bite, leaving me with the child who does bite, because I want to "help" the biter learn to not bite. As a provider, I would also be concerned that my reputation would be destroyed by the victim's parents letting the public know that I condone biting for the sake of helping the biter, instead of PROTECTING all of the other children, which is my primary responsibility.

I don't know why you keep saying it is a common problem for toddlers to bite. It is NOT a common problem. It happens, yes. But in 16 years of doing this, starting 98% of my children as infants, I have only had 2 children that I can recall ever having a problem with biting, and it happened with each of them ONCE....had it happened again, they'd have been out the door. I refuse to lose clients because I allowed a biter to remain in care.

I agree that we cannot term every misbehaved child. I rarely recommend terming. BUT, when it comes to biting, CONTINUOUSLY, then I do recommend it. I would go as far as saying to yes, try to help resolve the biting, but when you have attempted that and it hasn't improved, then WHY put yourself at risk of losing other clients, AND being reported for neglect....because honestly, it IS neglect......neglecting to protect other children for the sake of helping a biter AND not losing income.
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Old 07-30-2013, 11:55 AM
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No, I get that. I know you wouldn't be mean, anyway.

The thing is, the "bite's" family could term (although it sounds like OP is communicating well). But, what if they get to the next daycare, and there is a biter there? They give the biter a little time, and in the meantime, bitee get's nailed 3 or times. So, they move kiddo again. Taking your child out of a daycare where they get bitten a few times is not necessarily going to solve the problem, although I get why someone would want to.

I just got a call from a lady who was leaving her daycare because her 2 year old was getting hit by another child. Maybe there was a lack of supervision, maybe not. I have no idea. I did tell her that it is a common problem with 2 year olds. If she's changing daycares (for the 3rd time in 2 years, from the sounds of it), she's not always solving the problem.

At some point, we as providers need the tools to deal with these situations. We can't term every misbehaved child that we get. Some, we have to try to deal with. To me, it's part of our job. When I worked in a bank, I had to deal with crabby customers. Sometimes people were completely unreasonable, but I couldn't say "piss off"...lol. I thought it sometimes, though.
I know. I tried working with my biter's DCM to no avail. Some days she was on board & other days she wanted me to take care of it all. It was getting very stressful for me to shadow him & it took quality time away from the other children. The DCG who was being bitten started to act out towards others so I have to put an end to it. 8 weeks was more than enough time for me. It's a personal choice.., a very hard one too.
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Old 07-30-2013, 12:02 PM
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BTW, Heidi, I mean no disrespect to you, I just really disagree with trying to work it out when other children are being bitten on a regular basis.
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Old 07-30-2013, 12:11 PM
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I agree that moving the victim won't resolve the biter's problem. But as a parent, I wouldn't CARE about the biter's problem being resolved, and I certainly wouldn't allow my child to continue being bitten for the sake of helping resolve the biter's problem. A bite on my child's face, after she had already been bitten by the same child before would send me into a fit.

As a provider I would care that the victim's parents were removing a child who doesn't bite, leaving me with the child who does bite, because I want to "help" the biter learn to not bite. As a provider, I would also be concerned that my reputation would be destroyed by the victim's parents letting the public know that I condone biting for the sake of helping the biter, instead of PROTECTING all of the other children, which is my primary responsibility.

I don't know why you keep saying it is a common problem for toddlers to bite. It is NOT a common problem. It happens, yes. But in 16 years of doing this, starting 98% of my children as infants, I have only had 2 children that I can recall ever having a problem with biting, and it happened with each of them ONCE....had it happened again, they'd have been out the door. I refuse to lose clients because I allowed a biter to remain in care.

I agree that we cannot term every misbehaved child. I rarely recommend terming. BUT, when it comes to biting, CONTINUOUSLY, then I do recommend it. I would go as far as saying to yes, try to help resolve the biting, but when you have attempted that and it hasn't improved, then WHY put yourself at risk of losing other clients, AND being reported for neglect....because honestly, it IS neglect......neglecting to protect other children for the sake of helping a biter AND not losing income.
I totally understand what you're saying, Crystal. Once again, I am not saying it's just something where one says "oh, well it normal so it's ok".

OP said she can't term right now. It would put her family in dire financial straits, from the sound of it, and she doesn't have prospective new clients to replace him. The bitee's parents are in the loop, and OP seems to be trying to be proactive. All I can do is give her some more ideas.

As for it being common, I guess that's my take on it because I hear it again and again. There are two people on the board today that are asking about biting. Every provider I've known for 24 years has had one or two.

I did find this information on Birth-to-3's website. I didn't read through it all, but maybe there are some other ideas to help those with biters. LOL The first thing it says is don't "label" the kid a biter.

http://www.zerotothree.org/child-dev...on-biting.html
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  #24  
Old 07-30-2013, 12:28 PM
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I totally understand what you're saying, Crystal. Once again, I am not saying it's just something where one says "oh, well it normal so it's ok".

OP said she can't term right now. It would put her family in dire financial straits, from the sound of it, and she doesn't have prospective new clients to replace him. The bitee's parents are in the loop, and OP seems to be trying to be proactive. All I can do is give her some more ideas.

As for it being common, I guess that's my take on it because I hear it again and again. There are two people on the board today that are asking about biting. Every provider I've known for 24 years has had one or two.

I did find this information on Birth-to-3's website. I didn't read through it all, but maybe there are some other ideas to help those with biters. LOL The first thing it says is don't "label" the kid a biter.

http://www.zerotothree.org/child-dev...on-biting.html
I understand the OP's position about finances. However, the victim's parents WILL eventually pull because of it, and then she faces financial issues anyway. She also risks being reported, which would really complicate finances when other families choose not to sign because of the ding on her record.
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Old 07-30-2013, 12:49 PM
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I totally understand what you're saying, Crystal. Once again, I am not saying it's just something where one says "oh, well it normal so it's ok".

OP said she can't term right now. It would put her family in dire financial straits, from the sound of it, and she doesn't have prospective new clients to replace him. The bitee's parents are in the loop, and OP seems to be trying to be proactive. All I can do is give her some more ideas.

As for it being common, I guess that's my take on it because I hear it again and again. There are two people on the board today that are asking about biting. Every provider I've known for 24 years has had one or two.
......says meekly and quietly from the back.......

I've NEVER had a biter. ever.
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Old 07-30-2013, 12:51 PM
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Biting may not be abnormal, but I don't think it's normal either. In all my years, I've only seen it once. And local provider friends of mine, maybe once each.

I don't think the point is whether its normal or not.

I agree if it were my child being bitten like that, over and over, there would be a serious problem. I would be absolutely LIVID to find out that the provider is refusing to term for any reason and like crystal, as a parent I wouldn't care WHY. All I would care about is when was it going to stop.

While terming should never be a first option, sometimes it's the only option.

Sometimes it's hard to admit defeat and realize we can't fix everything and every child and every family.

In the end it's what's best for the group as a whole. And in the end, as a parent and provider, the top priority is the protection of all children involved.

Same as if a child was beating up another child and caused a broken arm. How many times do we allow that child to break arms of another innocent children.

Bites can be very dangerous. They can have long term physical and psychological consequences for every child involved.
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Old 07-30-2013, 12:56 PM
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My victims Mother is a social worker with the local school system.( so I don't think she sees this as neglect)! At this point they /we are all trying to move thru this phase....we are all communicating. And no I do not have a waiting line and hubs is not bringing in any $ so I am the one paying the mortgage and all other bills...we have no health ins. Recently found we had termites...thankfully the company we went with does monthly payments. So I am doing what I can to curb this behavior.Thanks again to all input. I'm hoping our vacay breaks will help put an end to this.But the last two weeks of Aug. I have 2 older Sa that are sibs to their littles...diff. fams. (these fams I've had for going on 8 yrs.) before school starts they will be a big help.My hubs is home ALOT these days and does help as does college age DD when she can.I know some of you do what you have to to keep the roof over your heads....that's where I'm at....if I could walk into any other job(almost) that I could make this amount of $$ then I'd be out of daycare in a flash(24+ yrs)....yes I started by accident---helping out a neighbor when I had first DD ---used to think I'd get to be class Mom and all that but not when you have 3-4 infants/toddlers. Had to miss alot of school plays etc. so I could take care of others kids...... anyway thanks again to all input.
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Old 07-30-2013, 01:03 PM
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Just read last post in fact years ago I did have a daycare kid(very solid for his age) that body slammed DD (2yrs old at time) to the floor and fell on top of her; broke her elbow. I did not term them or sue. To this day this kid is proud of what he did and always remarks on it when he see DD now.( always wondered if he used to tear animal heads off etc too.!)
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Old 07-30-2013, 01:12 PM
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......says meekly and quietly from the back.......

I've NEVER had a biter. ever.
lol...lucky you!
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Old 07-30-2013, 01:42 PM
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NO!!!! It is NOT typical behavior! If it were typical every kid that passes through our door would do it. Please do not accept it as typical behavior.
That

I don't have it at all.
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Old 07-30-2013, 01:51 PM
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......says meekly and quietly from the back.......

I've NEVER had a biter. ever.
I had one the first year I did daycare. Same as Crystal... two kids bit each other. I got schooled and it hasn't happened since.
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Old 07-30-2013, 02:02 PM
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Just read last post in fact years ago I did have a daycare kid(very solid for his age) that body slammed DD (2yrs old at time) to the floor and fell on top of her; broke her elbow. I did not term them or sue. To this day this kid is proud of what he did and always remarks on it when he see DD now.( always wondered if he used to tear animal heads off etc too.!)


Would have termed in a heartbeat...he is still proud of this? Maybe had he been termed and dealt with he would have learned this is not something to be proud of.
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Old 07-30-2013, 02:23 PM
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My victims Mother is a social worker with the local school system.( so I don't think she sees this as neglect)! At this point they /we are all trying to move thru this phase....we are all communicating. And no I do not have a waiting line and hubs is not bringing in any $ so I am the one paying the mortgage and all other bills...we have no health ins. Recently found we had termites...thankfully the company we went with does monthly payments. So I am doing what I can to curb this behavior.Thanks again to all input. I'm hoping our vacay breaks will help put an end to this.But the last two weeks of Aug. I have 2 older Sa that are sibs to their littles...diff. fams. (these fams I've had for going on 8 yrs.) before school starts they will be a big help.My hubs is home ALOT these days and does help as does college age DD when she can.I know some of you do what you have to to keep the roof over your heads....that's where I'm at....if I could walk into any other job(almost) that I could make this amount of $$ then I'd be out of daycare in a flash(24+ yrs)....yes I started by accident---helping out a neighbor when I had first DD ---used to think I'd get to be class Mom and all that but not when you have 3-4 infants/toddlers. Had to miss alot of school plays etc. so I could take care of others kids...... anyway thanks again to all input.
Right now, she may not see it as neglect. Right now she MAY APPEAR to be okay with it, but how do you really know that? How do you know she isn't just agreeing to your face, but looking for care elsewhere? She may actually be okay with it right now, but what about the next time, and the next time, and the next time.............

I don't care. No amount of money would be worth it to me for other children to be getting bitten and possible putting my business and my professional reputation on the line as well.

Good luck.
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Old 07-30-2013, 02:24 PM
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Would have termed in a heartbeat...he is still proud of this? Maybe had he been termed and dealt with he would have learned this is not something to be proud of.
No kidding.
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Old 07-30-2013, 02:33 PM
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OP....I just read your first post again and see that the child was actually bitten today, again. Has Mom been notified and how did she take it? If she hasn't, how are you going to respond if she says she has had enough and is pulling? Would THAT prompt you to term the biter, or would you understand and let the victim's Mom pull her out?
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Old 07-30-2013, 02:48 PM
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......says meekly and quietly from the back.......

I've NEVER had a biter. ever.
I wish I could say that. I just had my very first bitter in 10 years. Sister bit big brother because he put his fingers in her mouth........never happened again, but I guess it still counts.....
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Old 07-30-2013, 04:30 PM
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Right now, she may not see it as neglect. Right now she MAY APPEAR to be okay with it, but how do you really know that? How do you know she isn't just agreeing to your face, but looking for care elsewhere? She may actually be okay with it right now, but what about the next time, and the next time, and the next time.............

I don't care. No amount of money would be worth it to me for other children to be getting bitten and possible putting my business and my professional reputation on the line as well.

Good luck.
I have to say in OP situation with the way the parents are dealing now I would do the same she is... I do think (some)people jump to term quickly. And to PP who said it shouldn't be about the $. It is. It's a business. The bitee isn't being neglected. The situation is being dealt with the best it can. Seems like bitees mom knows this and is trusting her provider- which says a ton.
No one has threatened or mentioned pulling their kid- if that happens I'm sure OP will make a choice.
She is asking HOW you deal with a biter that terming isn't an option. Nan you said you got "schooled" and haven't had biters again... What do you do to prevent it?
She NEEDS the income- not for her dinners out... To keep food on the table and a roof over her families head!
I have been there and hope it improves soon for you! I would give advice but haven't dealt w a biter in 20 yrs *knocks on wood!
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Old 07-30-2013, 04:54 PM
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I have to say in OP situation with the way the parents are dealing now I would do the same she is... I do think (some)people jump to term quickly. And to PP who said it shouldn't be about the $. It is. It's a business. The bitee isn't being neglected. The situation is being dealt with the best it can. Seems like bitees mom knows this and is trusting her provider- which says a ton.
No one has threatened or mentioned pulling their kid- if that happens I'm sure OP will make a choice.
She is asking HOW you deal with a biter that terming isn't an option. Nan you said you got "schooled" and haven't had biters again... What do you do to prevent it?
She NEEDS the income- not for her dinners out... To keep food on the table and a roof over her families head!
I have been there and hope it improves soon for you! I would give advice but haven't dealt w a biter in 20 yrs *knocks on wood!
I understand what you are saying...BUT what you have to think about is the other families who's children are being subject to an UNSAFE environment. Yes, it is not the Providers fault at all, but it is what it is.......This is group care and you have to think about everyone in it......

I would pull my child in a heartbeat if they were bitten more than one..........

LIke I said and Crystal said.....it sounds like it is too late to try to fix it now. If the OP wants to try and fix it that is her choice, but she does run the risk of loosing her good families by trying to keep this one....In the end, it could cost her a whole lot more than money...............................................
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Old 07-30-2013, 04:56 PM
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I understand what you are saying...BUT what you have to think about is the other families who's children are being subject to an UNSAFE environment. Yes, it is not the Providers fault at all, but it is what it is.......This is group care and you have to think about everyone in it......

I would pull my child in a heartbeat if they were bitten more than one..........

LIke I said and Crystal said.....it sounds like it is too late to try to fix it now. If the OP wants to try and fix it that is her choice, but she does run the risk of loosing her good families by trying to keep this one....In the end, it could cost her a whole lot more than money...............................................
I understand that- its a tough job and hard to make certain calls! Prob why she says shed be out if she could!
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Old 07-30-2013, 07:49 PM
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Maybe typical is not the right word. It is NOT ok, I am absolutely not saying that. But, it is not uncommon. I don't have any statistics, only anecdotal data here, but I don't know a single daycare provider (and I've know a lot of them in 23 years) who hasn't had one or two biters.
Maybe I am thinking of the term "biter" differently. We have had children who have bitten. We had one 2 yo who bit his mom one day at p/u. We had a 18mo who bit 2 or 3 times in the course of a few months. Two of my 3 own children bit once or twice. I have dealt with it VERY firmly each time and it has stopped quickly. But I wouldn't say we have had a BITER. To me a "biter" is a child who has to be watched constantly because he/she WILL bite if given the chance, even after pretty much everything has been done to correct the behavior. It sounds to me like the OP's bitter is that kind.

As a daycare provider our jobs are to look after a GROUP of children. We, for example, have 9 children in our care. Why should 8 children suffer because 1 is constantly biting or hitting them? Why should 8 children get way less of their fair share of time and attention because we have to watch 1 child ALL the time? Why is the parent not expected to provide/ pay for one-on-one care for their child until said child learns that it is NOT okay to hurt others? If my child was biting daily I would DO something about it- even if that meant a one on one provider to make sure they get the attention they need to teach them that it is not okay. And I can't imagine my child getting bit daily- I would not tolerate it and would pull my child immediately. Maybe other parents don't feel that way though.
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Old 07-30-2013, 08:11 PM
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Maybe I am thinking of the term "biter" differently. We have had children who have bitten. We had one 2 yo who bit his mom one day at p/u. We had a 18mo who bit 2 or 3 times in the course of a few months. Two of my 3 own children bit once or twice. I have dealt with it VERY firmly each time and it has stopped quickly. But I wouldn't say we have had a BITER. To me a "biter" is a child who has to be watched constantly because he/she WILL bite if given the chance, even after pretty much everything has been done to correct the behavior. It sounds to me like the OP's bitter is that kind.

As a daycare provider our jobs are to look after a GROUP of children. We, for example, have 9 children in our care. Why should 8 children suffer because 1 is constantly biting or hitting them? Why should 8 children get way less of their fair share of time and attention because we have to watch 1 child ALL the time? Why is the parent not expected to provide/ pay for one-on-one care for their child until said child learns that it is NOT okay to hurt others? If my child was biting daily I would DO something about it- even if that meant a one on one provider to make sure they get the attention they need to teach them that it is not okay. And I can't imagine my child getting bit daily- I would not tolerate it and would pull my child immediately. Maybe other parents don't feel that way though.
Yes, by "biter" I included children that have bitten once or twice. Sometimes, it ends quickly. Sometimes, it takes a little more time to figure out. Only OP and her dc families can figure out just how much time will work for them.


Keeping kids safe IS the biggest part of this job. But, so is managing behaviors and teaching social skills.

She said she can't term, so I'm trying to help. That's all I can do.
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Old 07-30-2013, 08:15 PM
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opps I forgot to attach the post......
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Old 07-30-2013, 08:15 PM
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Maybe I am thinking of the term "biter" differently. We have had children who have bitten. We had one 2 yo who bit his mom one day at p/u. We had a 18mo who bit 2 or 3 times in the course of a few months. Two of my 3 own children bit once or twice. I have dealt with it VERY firmly each time and it has stopped quickly. But I wouldn't say we have had a BITER. To me a "biter" is a child who has to be watched constantly because he/she WILL bite if given the chance, even after pretty much everything has been done to correct the behavior. It sounds to me like the OP's bitter is that kind.

As a daycare provider our jobs are to look after a GROUP of children. We, for example, have 9 children in our care. Why should 8 children suffer because 1 is constantly biting or hitting them? Why should 8 children get way less of their fair share of time and attention because we have to watch 1 child ALL the time? Why is the parent not expected to provide/ pay for one-on-one care for their child until said child learns that it is NOT okay to hurt others? If my child was biting daily I would DO something about it- even if that meant a one on one provider to make sure they get the attention they need to teach them that it is not okay. And I can't imagine my child getting bit daily- I would not tolerate it and would pull my child immediately. Maybe other parents don't feel that way though.
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Old 07-30-2013, 09:42 PM
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She said she can't term, so I'm trying to help. That's all I can do.
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Old 07-30-2013, 09:48 PM
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Yes, by "biter" I included children that have bitten once or twice. Sometimes, it ends quickly. Sometimes, it takes a little more time to figure out. Only OP and her dc families can figure out just how much time will work for them.


Keeping kids safe IS the biggest part of this job. But, so is managing behaviors and teaching social skills.

She said she can't term, so I'm trying to help. That's all I can do.
you are doing a great great job of trying to help... I love the advice you gave and I copied it to file for a later date should I ever need it....lets pray that I don't.

I think that some of us are trying to get her to see the overall picture and help from that aspect........ I know that this is NOT what the OP wanted to hear, but sometimes we need to hear it....

Trust me. BC is so real, she tells it like it is. She will tell me what I need to hear, not necessarily what I want to hear. Same with Crystal and Nan. But if they never did it that way, I may have not seen things from that angle....... that is what I love about this form. Everyone views things from different angles that I may have never thought about it that way before....

Honest engine......... having others tell me what I need to hear and not want I want to hear has saved my BUTT..........
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:07 PM
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you are doing a great great job of trying to help... I love the advice you gave and I copied it to file for a later date should I ever need it....lets pray that I don't.

I think that some of us are trying to get her to see the overall picture and help from that aspect........ I know that this is NOT what the OP wanted to hear, but sometimes we need to hear it....

Trust me. BC is so real, she tells it like it is. She will tell me what I need to hear, not necessarily what I want to hear. Same with Crystal and Nan. But if they never did it that way, I may have not seen things from that angle....... that is what I love about this form. Everyone views things from different angles that I may have never thought about it that way before....

Honest engine......... having others tell me what I need to hear and not want I want to hear has saved my BUTT..........
Amen!! Advice isn't always what we want to hear.

And not many of us here just don't need the money, what little we do make. Me included. Terming is tough. And a last option for me. But there are a few reasons I would term, and only a few. First being non payment. Second being violence. And biting falls under that category.

When it comes to violence, I do everything in my power. I don't simply term.

Bt in a case like this, my family's monetary well being are not as important as my ability to provide that. And what I mean is a parent reporting me because their kid gets bit constantly or hurt in my home. And if a home provider gets shut down pending an investigation, how will they support their family?? If a parent sues and insurance drops us, then what. What if they drop my home owners too.

What if I'm found by licensing or the powers that be as neglectful because I didn't stop e victim from being hurt. What if ey revoke my license ??

What if a child in my care gets a serious infection or gets hospitalized. Then what.

All of the above things would greatly hinder my ability to provide for my family.

I know I'm listing all worse case scenario.

And also, I understand why terming is hard financially. We all understand.

What I'm saying is, what's work with at least heavily interviewing for the spot while still working with the biters family.

As far as options OP, I think you already know yu have tried all of the usual things. My only advice is to sit down with mom and make a plan. Have the mom talk to the pediatrician. They may have ideas we haven't thought of. There may be options that are more appropriate for mom to pull off than you are allowed to do.

For example, I have a friend who tried everything for her son to quit biting. Her pediatrician said to get some of that bad tasting thumb sucking stuff and every time the child bit, to put some either on his paci and out it into his mouth or dab the applicator on his lips with a very very form NO NO NO BITING!! And after twice, the child never got again and he had been a long term biter and nothing had worked. That may not be something a group provider can do, but mom can do it if she wants to. It won't hurt him.

If mom hasn't tried biting back, maybe that's something to think about. Not that I'm condoning that. But sometimes desperate times call for desperate measures yanno??
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Old 07-31-2013, 09:02 AM
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I have to say in OP situation with the way the parents are dealing now I would do the same she is... I do think (some)people jump to term quickly. And to PP who said it shouldn't be about the $. It is. It's a business. The bitee isn't being neglected. The situation is being dealt with the best it can. Seems like bitees mom knows this and is trusting her provider- which says a ton.
No one has threatened or mentioned pulling their kid- if that happens I'm sure OP will make a choice.
She is asking HOW you deal with a biter that terming isn't an option. Nan you said you got "schooled" and haven't had biters again... What do you do to prevent it?
She NEEDS the income- not for her dinners out... To keep food on the table and a roof over her families head!
I have been there and hope it improves soon for you! I would give advice but haven't dealt w a biter in 20 yrs *knocks on wood!
I was the PP who said it wasn't about money....which isn't what I said....what I said/meant was that whether you have to term an aggressive/violent/badly behaving child or not should never be about the money. Especially IF it involves the overall safety of ALL the children.

As a provider, I AM in the business to make money but NOT at the expense of harm to others.

I don't care who says it's alright, acceptable, understandable, normal, part of the job, something I am working on, figuring out, dealing with, managing or whatever.... It is simply NOT ok for it to happen on a continual basis.

THAT is a providers first priority. Safety of the kids in care.

The money aspect comes AFTER that.

If you put the money aspect before the safety aspect, you will end up losing MORE money in the end....and possibly more.
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Old 07-31-2013, 03:55 PM
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I was the PP who said it wasn't about money....which isn't what I said....what I said/meant was that whether you have to term an aggressive/violent/badly behaving child or not should never be about the money. Especially IF it involves the overall safety of ALL the children.

As a provider, I AM in the business to make money but NOT at the expense of harm to others.

I don't care who says it's alright, acceptable, understandable, normal, part of the job, something I am working on, figuring out, dealing with, managing or whatever.... It is simply NOT ok for it to happen on a continual basis.

THAT is a providers first priority. Safety of the kids in care.

The money aspect comes AFTER that.

If you put the money aspect before the safety aspect, you will end up losing MORE money in the end....and possibly more.
Yes - I agree with that 100%.
I do understand where everyone is coming from as far as suggesting to term... I just feel for the OP because it sounds like life is hard and she is trying. I do agree one of the reasons this forum is great is because we do hear what we NEED to hear even if it isn't what we WANT to hear.
Someone suggested heavily interviewing for the biters spot- that is a good first step while maybe doing a behavior plan. That way if after a certain period you term. Mom knows it, bitee mom knows it and the provider can prove she is being pro active if it becomes an issue.
Biting is dangerous- anything that can require shots and antibiotics is...
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  #49  
Old 07-31-2013, 04:31 PM
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Blackcat31 Blackcat31 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Familycare71 View Post
Yes - I agree with that 100%.
I do understand where everyone is coming from as far as suggesting to term... I just feel for the OP because it sounds like life is hard and she is trying. I do agree one of the reasons this forum is great is because we do hear what we NEED to hear even if it isn't what we WANT to hear.
Someone suggested heavily interviewing for the biters spot- that is a good first step while maybe doing a behavior plan. That way if after a certain period you term. Mom knows it, bitee mom knows it and the provider can prove she is being pro active if it becomes an issue.
Biting is dangerous- anything that can require shots and antibiotics is...
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