So I have a DCK here age 4 that showed up in jammies this morning. The parent was told this morning no more.

I told DCK was told that after breakfast you will need to change your clothes. (child arrived right at bk time) DCK has been in the bathroom for almost 25 min scream crying that they cannot and will not put their clothes on. At this age, I will not help them. BUT we need to move on with our day. How long would you let this go on before you go in and assist?

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I don't change clothes.

I have only had a child come in PJ's once or twice and each time they go home that way too (even when they brought clothes to change into)

If it happend more than once with family and I said no more I wouldnt allow them in.

Leave the PJ's on send her homethat way, and don't allow her into care again unless she is dressed for the day.

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I would not assist and I would call mom to come and pick up as the child is not dressed for our activities and that he/she is refusing to get dressed and is causing a disturbance and it is disruptive to the group. I would tell her that child needs to be dressed and ready for the day everyday.

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I have already goofed up and should have sent the child packing at the door or made DCD change clothes in the car.

I have to eat that part of it.. I am not going to call the parent and tell them to come get the child.

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I also wouldn't call the parent. Just send her home the way she came.

One girl came here in princess nightgown (she said she didn't want to get dressed) and we just went on with the day. Mom said, "why did you let her wear that all day? She told me she would put her clothes on at daycare. There were clothes in her bag"

My response, "Well she told me 'No' too." Smile sweetly

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I've had a similar situation before. I would wait for morning snack and explain that they can have snack once they're dressed for the day. He had a fit for a couple minutes, finally realized "wait...no snack?" and dressed for the day.

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lol.......Oh dear.....why am I so stinkin nice to people..... Everyone mistaken my niceness for weakness.

Especially with me being sick, I am in a grumpy mood. I think its time for me to put my foot down again.....

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Yea, why is it any easier for us to get them to do anything, therefore its fair to make us do it!

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I am looking at it like this. I missed the first opportunity to put my foot down at arrival and I didn't. SO now I feel I need to suck it up. I would be pissed if I was called from work to take care of this, when the provider could have told me when I was there in the morning. SO again that is my fault.

I think what will happen is that I won't change the clothes for the child and they will go home as they came as many have suggested....

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One if they cannot then I think what your doing is neglect if you wont help a four year old and you let that poor child scream for a half hour.shame on you Its a different story if the child is just refusing to put them on. again your the adult and she is four so you must take charge if she says no. still not good for her to be in the restroom for that long.

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almost 25 min scream crying that they cannot and will not put their clothes on.

Maybe you missed that part?????

So am I to force this child to change their clothes?

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I wouldn't have allowed him out of the room to change. I also wouldn't bother with it anyway. If he comes in jammies he leaves in jammies.

I don't dig power struggles on stuff that makes no difference anyway.

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It is not neglect to expect a 4 year old to dress themselves in the bathroom. My 3.5 yr old dd tries to pull that same thing on me. I make her go to her room, but if a provider told her to go to the bathroom and change I would not be upset unless she was in there for a super long time. Also it is appropriate to change in private for a 4 year old. Is the op supposed to undress and dress her fully in front of all of the other kids? Dd would be embarrassed- and she has thrown tantrums over getting dressed for way longer than 25 minutes... She knows she can come out whenever she wants- as long as she's dressed. Dcg probably pulled a fast one on mom this am and dcm is making it op's problem. Expecting her to dress herself is doing the dcm a favor and teaching her life skills.

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I agree. I don't do power struggles either.

I CAN get a child to do all of the things they tell their parents 'no' to. But I don't.

I COULD change a child even if they told me no, but I DON'T.

I also have many children that bring a toy or a sweet to the door each morning "bc they just would't leave the house without it" I simply take it,hand it back to Mom shut the door and walk away. Not a word. They know I wont allow it and don't even try to complain....a few moring this way with their parents and the problem would be solved....but that is another thread....

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Agree.

The more I read here the more shocked I become at some providers ways of disciplining.

Letting a child scream for 25 minutes is abuse. It does not matter that the child was not dressed, wouldn't/didn't want to, parents wanted you to do it etc.
I get that you are frustrated about that situation but the way you are handlong it is not okay.
You are not teaching the child anything at all.

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If your rule is no jammies, you should have turned the family away from the door and sent them home to get dressed. OR just let the kiddo stay in the jammies all day. Figure out if you want to fight this battle or not.

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You are soooooo RIGHT.... Dang it......youre always right....lol

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It's not appropriate to give a four year old who doesn't mind the adult privacy to change clothes. What can be accomplished in the bathroom can be accomplished around the corner from an adult where the adult can see what the child is doing minute to minute.

Privacy for dressing is about five thousand "rights" down from the obligation to mind an adult. I could care less about the privacy. I care about a child doing as they are told.

I've cared for kids for 31 years and I've yet to see "embarrased" out of a three year old.

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I agree completely!

I also do NOT beleive this is any kind of abuse! The child is making the choice.

Personally, I have told parents to bring a child who refuses to get dressed in their Jammies the next time. Then, I give them a "semi-private" spot, and VERY SWEETLY say..."oh, well, it's looks like you are not ready to play. Once you're dressed, come have fun with us. Let me know if you need any help".
If that child needs help, he would peek his head out and say "Miss x...I need help with my buttons", he wouldn't be screaming for 25 minutes. That's called a temper tantrum, and it doesn't fly around here either!

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UMMM that is not abuse. It's called a temper tantrum.

And yes she is teaching the child something, That she is the only adult that wont give in to that kind of C$@P.

Standing in the bathroom and having a fit because he refuses to get dressed, well good for him. He is more than capable of getting dressed. He needs to get over himself, suck it up, get dressed and join the rest of the kids.

It's not even close to Abuse or neglect.

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I would have sent the child to the bathroom to change also.

If that was not happening the child could come out where I could supervise them getting dressed.

Not giving in to a fit is not neglect.Disipline is teaching the child to control themselves. The only thing I would have done different is I would not have allowed the child to throw that fit in the bathroom. I would have made them come out and sit in our calm down area . I would not dress the child.

A four year old can dress their self or calmly ask for help if a shirt is to tight and gets stuck. Even my special needs 4 yr olds can dress themselves.

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THIS!! For me, I couldn't care less if they are dressed or in PJ's as long as whatever they are dressed in is weathr appropriate and covers the necessary things.

I handle things like this just as bbo said, "Oh, looks like you aren't ready to play, paint, go outside, sit down, join circle, etc etc. Your clothes are in you bag. When you are ready to get dressed and join us, let me know."

Also as Nan said, the BIGGER issue is the child disobeying the parent and/or the instructions. I don't care if you wear a Halloween costume to daycare, just listen and follow directions when told.

I understand that some providers require the child to be dressed and ready for the day, but really can I ask why? What can't or can a child do or not do that is dependent on the clothing they wear?

I wear yoga pants and a T-shirt to bed. In other threads about what we wear, there is a whole lot of providers who wear sweats, yoga pants and t-shirts so aren't you technically wearing PJ's and not really dressed and ready for the day?

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I wouldn't call the parents to pick up if you didn't enforce the policy at drop off. I would leave the kid in jammies and remind at pick up that the child needs to be prepared for the day before arriving. I also wouldn't allow the child to participate in outside play because he/she isn't dressed appropriately for it.

I wouldn't fight that fight- my rule is that you come prepared for the day dressed. Anyone that comes in jammies then they stay in jammies for the day. The rule applies to all children once they start walking. Infants are welcome to stay cozy all day It's too hard for me to squeeze time into my busy morning to dress 6 children.

So how did it go- is the child dressed or in jammies still?

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I have child that was horrible for mom to get dressed. She now has him sleep in the clothes he will wear in the morning except for the shoes. DCD thought is was horrible until he saw ho much smoother the morning went. LOL

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BTW my bathroom is right where I can turn my head and look in at any time...

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I suppose I partially agree for some kids, however I have taught my daughter that she needs to keep her body parts private (without making her feel that her body is something to be ashamed of). I have taught her that it is inappropriate to be undressed or partially nude in front of other people, even daycare kids, but if she NEEDS help she will call me for assistance. I do not know if the emotion would be embarassment- per se, but she does understand privacy (especially around men), and she will say that she needs to dress in private. She would be uncomfortable dressing in front of other kids because I have taught her that it is inappropriate, and she would feel that she is doing something wrong. Had I not taught her that maybe she wouldn't care, but at least in my experience for my child, dressing in front of others is not an option. (She is an old 3.5 though- very atypical for her age)

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Kid comes in jammies, kid goes home in jammies. If we go to the park, kid goes to park in jammies. I won't do it anymore. BTDT.

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thats what happening today.... I learned my lesson.... I don't battle children and honestly did not think this morning that having the child at age 4 change their own clothes was going to come down to this....

There won't be a next time that this happens, because as I should have done from the very beginning is send the kid and DCD packing this am at drop off....

I don't do favors....they all know that, but for some reason everyone has seem to forgotten all of my rules.... Time to remind them who is in charge of this business here..... LOL

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I understand that some providers require the child to be dressed and ready for the day, but really can I ask why? What can't or can a child do or not do that is dependent on the clothing they wear?

I wear yoga pants and a T-shirt to bed. In other threads about what we wear, there is a whole lot of providers who wear sweats, yoga pants and t-shirts so aren't you technically wearing PJ's and not really dressed and ready for the day?

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I have no problem with a kid who comes in PJ's....they could come in them every.singe.day if they wanted (just happens it has only happened 2-3 times)

I just don't change clothes.


...maybe I don't care bc I wear yoga pants and a hoodie everyday

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Cat- I agree. I don't care what you wear to be honest with you at all/. I don't care if you wear a paper sack. As long as they can play safely (not trip over their clothing or get stuck to anything) then I could care less.

I think where I went wrong is that DCD said DCK needs to change their clothes and I went along with it.

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I really wonder at your definition of abuse. Coming from a very abusive childhood, I would gladly have been a part of a home where the worst thing that every happened to me was that my daycare provider let me cry when I refused to put my jammies on. Perhaps you should get out and help in some women's shelters and children's outreach programs and see the real definition of abuse. I think you would change your mind when you see a toddler with a black eye thanks to one parent, and the other parents passed out in the street in front of the house.

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That's exactly what I was getting at. I think that the real issue was you were caught off guard and the parent said something and you tried to be supportive and th ewhole thing turned into a whole new ball game.

Next time, I think you should simply say to mom "Sorry Sally but if Jenny ccame that way, she will stay that way. Have a great day and we will see you after work."

Totally not a battle I would ever want to get into because in my honest opinion, there really is no real reason that little kids HAVE to be dressed. At least not in the way some of us define dressed.

Many of my dck's come in clothing I would NEVER have allowed my won kids to sleep in let alone go out in public in but I guess we all have different ideas of appropriate clothing. Heck, some of my DCK's hardly have their hair combed... LOL!!

As far as child care goes...like you said: as long as the clothes they have on are safe and dont cause any issues, it is all good.

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I think what the real deal was that DCD showed up 20 minutes earlier than normal ( my first arrival) and I was so worrying about addressing that, that the clothing issues slipped my mind. It was the first time that DCfamiy did this. Normally they are one of my best clients and normally follow all of my rules....

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I wouldn't normally chime in here, but as a fellow abuse survivor, you're right! There are many types of abuse, but not giving into a temper tantrum is NOT abuse, and to call it that is demeaning to those who have suffered abuse.

I am SURE that the person who said that did not in any way mean to disparage real abuse victims. It's all about perspective, though, and now we all have another way to look at it.

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I didnt read into it too much, as I know that I am not being abusive in anyway shape or form. Plus I have been called much worse lol

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For me, it would have been a non-issue. I would have taken the 2 mins and helped the child dress and move on.

My almost 5 yo just started dressing himself 2 months ago. He comes down in his jammies when he wakes up. I have his clothes sitting on the sofa and he dresses himself when ready.

My almost 4 yo tries, but usually, I just dress him after breakfast if Mom didn't already do it.

Every so often, they tell me that it's pajama day and they don't want to get dressed. Mommas come home to kids is pjs.

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I had a dad who would bring his son in footed jammies everyday, and he was 3 yrs old. He would change his night time diaper but not his clothes?????well he knew we went outside and the library so I would stuff his feet in his boots and shoes and off he went in his jammies. I started sending him home in them too, they did get the hint that you can't be in jammies all day.

now, yoga pants and jogging suits are different, they are clothes that you wear everyday. But jammies belong to bedtime. I think if the children are dressed and ready in the morning the day flows so much smoother. I do have a mom who lets her kids go all day in their jammies and then puts them in bed in those dirty jammies, so gross.

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Just wanted to jump in here and mention what I've experienced with pajamas at daycare. Sometimes a child will come in wearing pjs, sometimes I'll plan a pajama day... and everytime, the children wearing pajamas act really tired, don't want to participate in anything, throw fits over everything (generally what I would chalk up to not enough sleep the night before). BUT the minute the child gets dressed in day clothes, their whole mood changes, they begin participating in all the activities, get along better with the others, and stop their many fits... It's really pretty funny when you think about it! So needless to say, I dread the days they come in pjs, but luckily I've never had one refuse to get dressed (Usually they're more than ready to change clothes!), so it's an easy fix

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so you dont think 25 min is long? 25 min in a bathroom alone is extreamly long

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its not abuse for a child to have a temper tantrum but it is to leave a four year old in a bathroom for 25 min alone crying. I think all four year old arnt like every other four year olds. Some learn at diff levels.

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It was the child's choice to stay there having a fit for 25 minutes.

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You are reading into this way too much.
She was not alone. I was right outside the bathroom. I could see her she could see me. I tried talking to her and even asked at one point if she wanted help.

I will not approach a child that is screaming and having a yelling fit.
Btw. I've had kids throw tantrums for a lot longer than 25 minutes and there's no way On this given earth will I ever entertain a child having a tantrum.
When they are done screaming and I am can talk where I am heard and can reason THEN I will approach a child.

I don't think what I am doing is wrong. No one else does either but you

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I would have let the child scream it out, and continue on. Eventually they'll either come out wearing their day clothes, or come out in their jammies. If she came out in her jammies i'd have a talk with her parent on why she still is in her jammies, and the disruption she caused.

Maybe she's allowed to wear her jammies during the day at home (weekends/holidays..ect) and this was like an insult to her, and was confused. Either way, my home, my rules. If she wasn't screaming and cried that she wanted help, i'd help, but I don't do screaming.

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Oops the above post is by me, I just realized I wasn't logged in.

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maybe im just more of a comforterthen having a poor child scream. I just feel like she should of been held or something. Maybe thats why my children arnt in daycare because THEIR kids and yes they will have little fits but I just think 25 min is so long. This is just my thoughts

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This is a perfect example of what I was talking about previously. What one person considers ok clothing for everyday wear is something someone else considers clothing that is worn ONLY at home to sleep or louge in. I wouldn't dream of ever stepping foot outside my home wearing yoga pants or a jogging suit. To me, personally, those are not clothing items I would consider wearing in public. But that is just how I was raised so those are my feelings.

I don't think that I personally would feel very professional or "work-like" in yoga pants or a sweat suit. But again, those are just MY persosonal feelings.

I imagine that every family we have as clients have different thoughts, feelings and ideas about what "properly dressed" means to them. Most of those things are based on their cultures and personal lifestyles or their priorities, I guess.

This is an interesting statement. I have never really paid any attention to things like this. Definitely food for thought.

I interned at an elementary school last fall for college and while in the classroom, I did notice that a majority of kids were either wearing pj pants and or clothing items I personally, consider pj's or sleeping clothes.

Seems the character pj pants are a bit of a trend right now as I have seen many adults wearing them in Target/Wal-mart lately.

I do think how you are dressed (and how you feel about it) are definitely BIG factors in how you feel and what your attitude is. That is why I made the comment about yoga pants and providers. Most of you that wear them say it is because they are comfy and easy to move in. I would think kids feel the same way about pj's. Their litttle bodies don't always fit the styles of clothing they are dressed in (skinny jeans, elastic waisted jeans, overalls, etc) so I can imagine how it would be simpler for them to want to wear pj.s

With little kids' bodies growing and changing all the time, I can see how snaps, buttons, denim and other types of children's clothing could or would be constrictive and super uncomfortable at times.

Basically, like I said before (and like Daycare also said) I don't care what the children are wearing. Just as long as the clothing they have on is safe for moving freely and doesn't cause any type of safety hazard to them or others.

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I understand what you are saying. But this kid is 4 years il almost 5. She is also the size of a 6-7 year old.

Had the child been any younger, I would have been the one changing the clothes for them.

But there will be no next time. I learned a big lesson. Next time thy go home as they came.


I was also taught in my classes, to ignore this type of behavior and don't give the child an audience. If you were to go and try to hug and love them giving them positive attention for a negative behavior, you are telling them that it is ok to behave that way. The child was not crying because they NEEDED something, they were crying because they wanted something.

I am all for validating a child's feelings, heck anyone at any age's feelings. You can be sad or angry, but you can't scream and yell. That is not ok I don't yell at them and it's not ok for them to yell at me or anyone else. To me yelling is abusive...

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Letting a child who's 4 scream for 25 minutes is abuse???? ROFL.. that's hilarious to me.
I know kids that can cry, tanrtum and refuse for way longer than that.

Sending a child home for not changing jammies.. again ROFL. That's awesome. Also silly.

I'm very middle ground. Stay and change if they're needing to be changed for pee or poop reasons.. otherwise who care? Why would I get in a power struggle over pajamas? Kids have weird preferances.. and sometimes they don't matter at all to how things go at daycare.

Kids also try to pull the "I can't do it." card.. then they do it and feel immense pride. That's what you teach them, pride in being self sufficient.

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I think it also makes a difference whether the child was willing to accept help. I would have helped the child, but if they refused, what can you do? If they didnt want to change regardless if whether you help or not, you are in a power struggle and then what? If you say they have to change and then after they scream, let them stay in the pjs, what do you teach them? not a judgement, Im really asking!

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I don't mind PJs but then again my daycare wardrobe mostly consists of fun and funky pj bottoms with a t-shirt and colorful hoodie during the long winter months lol! Most of my pj bottoms have fun characters on them like Mickey or Winnie the Pooh

I have had a few dcps drop off dcks with pjs on and tell me that the dck has clothes in their bag. I will usually just say well if you are fine with him being out in pjs then I am fine with it too. If he asks to get dressed later I will dress him.

Often once we start having fun or heading outdoors dck will ask to get dressed.
I also do PJ and teddy day once a month for the kids.

BUT I think the point here is more about the tantrum. YOU are the daycare provider and what YOU say goes so if you are asking dck to get dressed then dck should do as he or she is told. After about 10 min. I would have removed child from bathroom and sent them to Time Out. I would then ask again if they are ready to get dressed for the day. Child could remain in Time Out until the power struggle is over and you come out on top. They will give in eventually especially if they can see everyone else having fun.
I try to limit how often the dcks win in power struggles because the more I give in, the more they think they are in control and the more they think they are in control, the more out of control the entire daycare becomes.

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Ok...so yesterday I watched a couple going into a restaurant with a 3 1/2 yo or so girl.

Mom carried her about 50 feet, and set her down. Girl stopped. Mom said "you have to walk". Girl screams and says no. Mom tugs on hand..."you have to walk". Girl screams louder, stomps feet, screams. (Dad is just standing there looking amused).

Mom picks up girl, walks back to car, sets her down. "do you want to go back to the car?" no answer. Do you want to go back to the car? no answer. Starts to open door, girl screams. Mom picks up girl...carries her TOWARDS the restaurant, "ok...stop screaming then!"...carries here into the restaurant with dad quietly following.

Me....I'm the one in the motor cycle gear looking bewildered.... I should mind my own business...really

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Temper tantrum all the way...Mine daughter started going into the bathroom on her own to change as we have a upstairs downstairs and she doesn't like to change in her room but be closer to all of us and what is happening around her. She is sensitive and is prone to tantrums...for her I'll march her right back to her room where she can have the tantrums all to her self. She knows like all the other kiddo's that as soon as they are done they can rejoin the group. I won't play into it at all. Doesn't matter if it's 15-25 min or longer. At 4 going on 5 they know better. And it's all about attention and getting it at any means.

I don't mind children coming in with pj's. If the parents had a hard time getting them ready for the day I'll let them be in them for as long as they want and then when there ready to dress we'll do it. Most of my little ones are getting the dressing all by them selves with out problems but for those that know how and won't I'll give in if they need assistance. I don't mind. If I wasn't feeling good I probably would of gave in and helped..lol!! But chances are if the fit was bc they didn't want to change I'd leave them in it and when they felt better to change then she could. I wouldn't really battle it out. I'd try to conserve my energy.

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thanks everyone who posted....update on this.

So the tantrum screaming fit stopped the second I told DCK ok then don't change, put your clothes in your cubby, we are going to get ready to go outside. We also went to the library after snack. DCK could care less that they were in PJs.

Well DCP comes to pick up and DCK comes to meet mom at the door still in PJs. The mom asks why. I said well this is how Dad dropped in the morning, DCK refused to change clothes, so here they are. YOu could tell DCM was not pleased.

DCP called me over the weekend and was not happy about it. SO I stood my ground and said, if you want your child dressed in regular clothes then you need to bring them in regular clothes. I went on to tell DCP that DCK threw a screaming fit in the bathroom for almost 25 minutes and refused help. It took out a huge part of our day and a lot of my attention away from the other kids as well.

As it turns out, this is why DCK came in the PJs in the first place, because they did the same exact thing to dad at home in the morning and dad was not going to fit it either and tried to pawn it off on me...

NOPE, I am not a pawn. I told DCM that I will send DCK home is the clothes they came in, unless there was an accident of some kind.

She seemed to understand, but was not happy about it.
.

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not your problem, his parents need to put their big boy and girl panties on and deal with the issues like a parent. Good for you for not giving in, let this be a lesson to the parents.

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No. 25 minutes in the bathroom, whie supervised, for a 4+ year old is not too long.

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OMG!! So close to the right thing I was nearly cheering.....untill they went into the restaurant

Put that girl back in the and drive away...

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I think the child was overly tired. I have a little girl like this, she needs a lot of time to come alive from nap or sleep. I would of had her chill out and watch tv and relax and try later. If she doesnt want to change, no big deal. I would just of been annoyed that the parent expectes me to do their responsibilities more than anything.

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A child having a temper tantrum for 25 min is not abuse.

Now that that is cleared up, you can decide ahead of time what you will do when this child displays this kind of disobedience in the future.

I'd have a timer and a consequence at the ready, and present it like this. "Little PJ, you have 5 minutes to get in your clothes and join the group. I'm setting the timer and I know you can do it because you are such a big boy. If you are not in your clothes when the timer goes off, you may not play with (insert favorite toy here) for the rest of the day. Ready, set, GO!"

Now you have won the battle with the PJ's regardless because a consequence was had for non-compliance.

Or you can decide not to fight this battle at all. But my general rule of thumb is only pick those battles you can win. For instance, I don't tend to choose battles related to food. But learning to change clothes is a life skill and it is completely reasonable that an average 4 year old can get dressed with relatively little help, and is capable of requesting help in a respectful tone if needed.

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