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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Follow Up On Thief DCG...Opinions?
Soccermom 04:33 AM 10-02-2012
Sorry this is so long....but there is a lot of info.

Talked to DCM over the phone yesterday and DCM disclosed that DCG has been taking things from all over for the past month. DCM was unaware that this was happening until incident at my house happened. She has since discovered that this is a problem. There are more items to be returned to us today (One item in particular which my DD will be livid about..).

I talked with DCM and told her that I expect DCG to apologize to my DD and not to me as the items taken do not belong to me.

We talked a long time and DCM has discussed with a child psychologist who has told her that this probably has a lot to do with the big move they have just made and that DCG is having trouble adjusting to her new surroundings. He said in time she should hopefully adjust and things will go back to normal for DCG and her family...but what if they don't?

As an adult who has taken many psychology courses at University, I completely understand what is happening and don't blame the child..however I am also a mom and this DCG is creating a negative, anxious environment for my children to come home to.

I have always said that if a child negatively affects my children, I will term as my own children come first...I am a mom first.

I do like DCG and we had all settled into a really great routine prior to this. Everyone got along and things were good. Also at this point in the year it is near impossible to replace SA DCKs. Without her and her sister, I am out 100$per week.

My kids are already stressed about the whole thing, they have hoarded so many things into their rooms that you can hardly walk in there. To a child, having anything taken from you is a huge deal.

I have put measures in place to try to avoid her taking anything else but she can be quite sneaky..

I told DCM that if I see DCG take things, I will call her out on it quietly and have her put them back and also if DCM finds things on her or in her bag to please return them discreetly..BUT if my children SEE her take things, I will have no choice but to term because I promised my kids that if she ever took something again she would be out, and I won't go back on that promise.

What are your opinions on this whole thing? Should I have just termed on the spot or should I keep trying with this DCG?
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lovemykidstoo 04:41 AM 10-02-2012
I would not term over this for several reasons. This little girl needs help. Mom is willing to work with you and her. If you both can put your heads together and help her then that will be her lifesaver. To just give her the boot and make her more stressed out might make her problem worse. You need to just implement very strict security measures. Such as absolutely no bag will be allowed in your home. I would put her coat and bag somewhere that she doesn't have access to it. That takes care of the problem of stashing toys. I never let the dck's play with my kids toys anyway. Let her only play with the designated dc toys. The only other place she could have a toy hidden is on her person (pockets). I would have mom give her a quick pat when she picks up. It's not hard to see if a child has something in her pocket. The mom doesn't really even need to let the girl know what she is doing. If she picks her up or gives her a hug she could tell if she's hiding something.
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EchoMom 04:43 AM 10-02-2012
My DS is only a year old so I don't know what it's like on your children to have their things taken. My opinion, take it or leave it, is that you're being too hard on the DCG and being very emotional about it. You should be the less emotional one because it's emotional to your children. It's only been a short term problem and you say the girl has been really good until recently. I would say just give it time, remove her bag to somewhere the she has no access to without you, and check her pockets when she comes and goes. If you do these things I don't see how anything could possibly get out the door.

Maybe this is a time to talk with your own children about how to love people and forgive people. Maybe it's a teaching opportunity and character refining to your own children to forebear with this girl. Not that they just let her steal whatever she wants, as I said you should put every precaution in place.
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Angelsj 04:44 AM 10-02-2012
What if your kids catch YOU allowing it to pass? Where will their trust lie in you at that point?
I don't think your decision to give her another chance, or even work with her is necessarily a bad one, but hiding it from your kids, when they already feel betrayed? That could have some incredibly long reaching consequences.
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EchoMom 04:44 AM 10-02-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
I would not term over this for several reasons. This little girl needs help. Mom is willing to work with you and her. If you both can put your heads together and help her then that will be her lifesaver. To just give her the boot and make her more stressed out might make her problem worse. You need to just implement very strict security measures. Such as absolutely no bag will be allowed in your home. I would put her coat and bag somewhere that she doesn't have access to it. That takes care of the problem of stashing toys. I never let the dck's play with my kids toys anyway. Let her only play with the designated dc toys. The only other place she could have a toy hidden is on her person (pockets). I would have mom give her a quick pat when she picks up. It's not hard to see if a child has something in her pocket. The mom doesn't really even need to let the girl know what she is doing. If she picks her up or gives her a hug she could tell if she's hiding something.
I agree, if she's already having a hard time transitioning, kicking her out of the daycare she's used to is really going to rattle her more and will make you seem totally uncompassionate to the DCM.
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Soccermom 04:50 AM 10-02-2012
Keep in mind that she has taken money and other personal items from other homes.

It is not just toys that she has taken.

This is my home and I want my family to feel safe and comfortable in it.

I want to help this little girl, I feel terrible for her but I can't throw my own kids under the bus in order to help her. My 8 yo DD has a lot of anxiety and this is not helping her one bit.
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Soccermom 04:51 AM 10-02-2012
Originally Posted by glenechogirl:
I agree, if she's already having a hard time transitioning, kicking her out of the daycare she's used to is really going to rattle her more and will make you seem totally uncompassionate to the DCM.

She has only been here 4 weeks. They just moved here.
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lovemykidstoo 04:55 AM 10-02-2012
Originally Posted by Soccermom:
Keep in mind that she has taken money and other personal items from other homes.

It is not just toys that she has taken.

This is my home and I want my family to feel safe and comfortable in it.

I want to help this little girl, I feel terrible for her but I can't throw my own kids under the bus in order to help her. My 8 yo DD has a lot of anxiety and this is not helping her one bit.
The same security measures should be in place no matter what she has taken. Doe she have free run of your entire house? My kids have limited access. They would never be allowed to get anywhere near my money or any other personal items. It sounds like your mind is made up already to term her, which is your right absolutely.

I'm really not sure though why your children are having anxiety of it though. Your kids should definately know what's going on but I think they need to be stressing themselves out over it.
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Soccermom 05:00 AM 10-02-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
The same security measures should be in place no matter what she has taken. Doe she have free run of your entire house? My kids have limited access. They would never be allowed to get anywhere near my money or any other personal items. It sounds like your mind is made up already to term her, which is your right absolutely.

I'm really not sure though why your children are having anxiety of it though. Your kids should definately know what's going on but I think they need to be stressing themselves out over it.
They eat snack and do homework in my kitchen and use our family bathrooms. They play in my family room and children's playroom in the afternoons.

I haven't made up my mind just yet, I am still trying. I just want to know if people think that I am being a crappy mom by still allowing this child to come here and take my children's things. If someone stole from you, would you want them to come back to your house? I want to do what is best for my little ones, that's all.
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lovemykidstoo 05:05 AM 10-02-2012
Originally Posted by Soccermom:
They eat snack and do homework in my kitchen and use our family bathrooms. They play in my family room and children's playroom in the afternoons.

I haven't made up my mind just yet, I am still trying. I just want to know if people think that I am being a crappy mom by still allowing this child to come here and take my children's things. If someone stole from you, would you want them to come back to your house? I want to do what is best for my little ones, that's all.
I understand you being upset but I really think that if you limit this little girl to not bringing the backpack into the house you will get rid of a few chances she has. Let her bring her homework papers to the table. That's fine. So, to be clear when she plays in the children's playroom that is where your kids toys are? The only time this would affect your own kids is if she takes something that is theirs. If she is not playing with their own personal toys problem solved. I don't see this as much as a problem, but an important opportunity for you and her mother to help her. Maybe your kids would see it as that too.
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lovemykidstoo 05:11 AM 10-02-2012
Originally Posted by glenechogirl:
My DS is only a year old so I don't know what it's like on your children to have their things taken. My opinion, take it or leave it, is that you're being too hard on the DCG and being very emotional about it. You should be the less emotional one because it's emotional to your children. It's only been a short term problem and you say the girl has been really good until recently. I would say just give it time, remove her bag to somewhere the she has no access to without you, and check her pockets when she comes and goes. If you do these things I don't see how anything could possibly get out the door.

Maybe this is a time to talk with your own children about how to love people and forgive people. Maybe it's a teaching opportunity and character refining to your own children to forebear with this girl. Not that they just let her steal whatever she wants, as I said you should put every precaution in place.
Great post!
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sharlan 05:44 AM 10-02-2012
It's great that Mom's talking to a psycologist, but what about the child? She's the one who needs the help.

I would give this child one more chance and then I would let her go. Why should your children keep being subjected to their personal belongings being stolen? What would you do if it were one of your "friends" that was coming into your home and repeatedly stealing things? Would you give yourself a lesson on turn the other cheek, forgive and forget? I doubt it.

I would make her return the stolen items directly to your children. I wouldn't allow the mom to continue to sugar coat and hide from what she's doing.

I would also take possession of her backpack when she walks through the door. I would personally take her homework out and put it back. I would not allow her to have any contact with it once she walks in with it. The same for any jacket.
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Meeko 05:44 AM 10-02-2012
Originally Posted by Soccermom:
Keep in mind that she has taken money and other personal items from other homes.

It is not just toys that she has taken.

This is my home and I want my family to feel safe and comfortable in it.

I want to help this little girl, I feel terrible for her but I can't throw my own kids under the bus in order to help her. My 8 yo DD has a lot of anxiety and this is not helping her one bit.
I understand that the daycare child may have had some turmoil recently. But we ALL have turmoil in our lives at one time or another. That is no excuse for stealing. She is not a two year old who doesn't know what's she's doing. She's eight. Plenty old enough to know she is stealing and plenty old enough to be disciplined and face the consequences of her choices.

I wouldn't tip-toe around it. If you decide to keep the girl, she needs to know exactly what is going to happen.

She needs to know she is loved........BUT...

She needs to know that trust is gone and has to be earned back.
She needs to know she is going to be watched closely.
She needs to know she will get a deliberate pat down at pick up whether she likes it or not.
She needs to know that your daughter is very unhappy with her.
She needs to know that her choice of toys to play with is very limited.

Personally, I would also tell her that the police will be called if she steals as much as fluff off the rug.

Then she needs to begin the long hard climb back to being trusted and respected. It's a hard life lesson, but she needs to learn it NOW. Treading lightly around the child and putting it down to outside problems etc. etc. will only mean trouble later on when she is older and the consequences are so much harder.

The problem needs nipped in the bud right now. Either let her go, or be willing to issue some very tough love.

If you keep her enrolled, let your daughter know exactly what is going to happen. Let her know that people deserve a second chance, but that you put her first and will be diligent in making sure her things are safe. Tell her you will term care if the girl steps out of line.

I would not hush-hush a thing. The girl needs to know that feeling uncomfortable/embarrassed etc. are part of the consequences of doing something wrong.

She can still be loved, and have fun at your home and be accepted...but she needs to take responsibility. Cushioning her feelings will do her no good whatsoever in the long run.
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Meeko 05:45 AM 10-02-2012
Originally Posted by sharlan:
It's great that Mom's talking to a psycologist, but what about the child? She's the one who needs the help.

I would give this child one more chance and then I would let her go. Why should your children keep being subjected to their personal belongings being stolen? What would you do if it were one of your "friends" that was coming into your home and repeatedly stealing things? Would you give yourself a lesson on turn the other cheek, forgive and forget? I doubt it.

I would make her return the stolen items directly to your children. I wouldn't allow the mom to continue to sugar coat and hide from what she's doing.

I would also take possession of her backpack when she walks through the door. I would personally take her homework out and put it back. I would not allow her to have any contact with it once she walks in with it. The same for any jacket.
Ditto
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lovemykidstoo 05:51 AM 10-02-2012
Originally Posted by Meeko:
I understand that the daycare child may have had some turmoil recently. But we ALL have turmoil in our lives at one time or another. That is no excuse for stealing. She is not a two year old who doesn't know what's she's doing. She's eight. Plenty old enough to know she is stealing and plenty old enough to be disciplined and face the consequences of her choices.

I wouldn't tip-toe around it. If you decide to keep the girl, she needs to know exactly what is going to happen.

She needs to know she is loved........BUT...

She needs to know that trust is gone and has to be earned back.
She needs to know she is going to be watched closely.
She needs to know she will get a deliberate pat down at pick up whether she likes it or not.
She needs to know that your daughter is very unhappy with her.
She needs to know that her choice of toys to play with is very limited.

Personally, I would also tell her that the police will be called if she steals as much as fluff off the rug.

Then she needs to begin the long hard climb back to being trusted and respected. It's a hard life lesson, but she needs to learn it NOW. Treading lightly around the child and putting it down to outside problems etc. etc. will only mean trouble later on when she is older and the consequences are so much harder.

The problem needs nipped in the bud right now. Either let her go, or be willing to issue some very tough love.

If you keep her enrolled, let your daughter know exactly what is going to happen. Let her know that people deserve a second chance, but that you put her first and will be diligent in making sure her things are safe. Tell her you will term care if the girl steps out of line.

I would not hush-hush a thing. The girl needs to know that feeling uncomfortable/embarrassed etc. are part of the consequences of doing something wrong.

She can still be loved, and have fun at your home and be accepted...but she needs to take responsibility. Cushioning her feelings will do her no good whatsoever in the long run.
Excellent advice!
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countrymom 05:54 AM 10-02-2012
ok, I really think the other posters don't understand because of the age. Last summer dcg (she was 6) stole one of my sons (he's 9) nintendo games. I found out because when she asked me to charge her nintendo I checked the game she came in with and it had our name on it (I write our names on each one) I didn't comfront her either nor did I tell my kids. my kids would have been so livid because they buy the games with their own money. Big mistake.

by allowing her to get away with it and feeling sorry for her (because mom was in and out of the picture) she stole other stuff from us, polly pockets, money, cars. I had enough (I started to check her pockets and gma brought stuff back) she made it like she was the victim. She left that summer and I never saw her again. I shouldn't have to worry about a theif.

I think your being too easy on her. She's 8 yrs old. SHE KNOWS WHAT STEALING IS. Don't let her play the martar card with you, its not your problem that she's not adjusting well to the move, thats the moms problem and she needs to fix it, but to use stealing as an excuse is WRONG. So because she can't get adjusted gives her the right to steal from people are you kidding me!

I would also adress the child and set some ground rules (which I didn't and more stuff was stolen) I would let my family know too (which I also didn't) I would also let the girl know that I would not put up with her stealing in my house. Yes it sounds mean, but when you have a child who is very capable of understanding then its time to be mean.

good luck and I've been there, don't let her pity be an excuse.
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cheerfuldom 06:03 AM 10-02-2012
Everyone has some really thoughtful posts to say

BUT it is up to you OP. We always say around here not to take other peoples problems onto yourself. It is very possible that this issue is not related to the move and had been a problem for this girl long before. Maybe mom is telling you the truth, maybe she is not. It is okay if you decide that this issue is just too much to deal with right now. You are not a bad person if you cant solve this or if you are not willing to deal with it.

After all this info, I hate to sound heartless but I would let this girl go. It is too stressful to have to watch one child like a hawk for days on end. Supervision is one thing but shadowing an older child, checking backpacks, dealing with your kids insecurities and hoarding things because of it....

I really do make daycare decisions based on my own kids. If they are unhappy and uncomfortable, its time to make a change. Yes this DCG needs help and stability and supervision....that doesnt mean it has to be you doing it. Perhaps she would be better off with a daycare that does not have the providers children in the household or that is not using family living space as daycare space.

I remember one time when I finally termed on very aggressive little boy. I really waited too long to term him, hoping things would change. I realized at the end that my daughter was spending huge amounts of time right next to me or perched as high as she could get on the couch.....she was trying to tell me in her own way that she did not even feel safe in her own home. I see now that it was wrong of me to keep a child here that was doing that to my own child. The very day he was gone, it was like a breath of fresh air for her....she could actually play and feel some freedom again.
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DaisyMamma 06:28 AM 10-02-2012
I realize this girl needs help, but you are a mom first. If you don't want your children dealing with the stress then they don't have to. I personally would allow one more chance without sugar coating or hiding anything from the children.
I realize that the last thing she needs is change, so that's why you give her the one more chance. Make sure you are clear. Beyond that it's really not your problem. You can only do so much. There are other people to think about. I wouldn't be concerned about $.
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MyAngels 06:33 AM 10-02-2012
I agree with Meeko, Countrymom and Cheer on this one.

If it were happening here I would be inclined to try to help her family deal with and eliminate the problem, but I don't have my kids living at home anymore. Cheer makes an excellent point about your family feeling safe in their own home.
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crazydaycarelady 06:37 AM 10-02-2012
I would not term. I would put any bags/backpacks she comes with out of her reach and she does not get them until dcm picks up. Also I am assuming this issue has been discussed with the child. I would just tell her you are on to her antics and she better not pull anything.
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wahmof3 06:41 AM 10-02-2012
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
Everyone has some really thoughtful posts to say

BUT it is up to you OP. We always say around here not to take other peoples problems onto yourself. It is very possible that this issue is not related to the move and had been a problem for this girl long before. Maybe mom is telling you the truth, maybe she is not. It is okay if you decide that this issue is just too much to deal with right now. You are not a bad person if you cant solve this or if you are not willing to deal with it.

After all this info, I hate to sound heartless but I would let this girl go. It is too stressful to have to watch one child like a hawk for days on end. Supervision is one thing but shadowing an older child, checking backpacks, dealing with your kids insecurities and hoarding things because of it....

I really do make daycare decisions based on my own kids. If they are unhappy and uncomfortable, its time to make a change. Yes this DCG needs help and stability and supervision....that doesnt mean it has to be you doing it. Perhaps she would be better off with a daycare that does not have the providers children in the household or that is not using family living space as daycare space.

I remember one time when I finally termed on very aggressive little boy. I really waited too long to term him, hoping things would change. I realized at the end that my daughter was spending huge amounts of time right next to me or perched as high as she could get on the couch.....she was trying to tell me in her own way that she did not even feel safe in her own home. I see now that it was wrong of me to keep a child here that was doing that to my own child. The very day he was gone, it was like a breath of fresh air for her....she could actually play and feel some freedom again.
BINGO!! This is IMO totally right on! I would probably term.
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Soccermom 07:35 AM 10-02-2012
It is so nice to be able to come here and discuss these types of things with fellow DPs. I don't know what I would do without all of you.
Nothing is black and white with child care...there are always grey areas and odd things that come up, it is comforting to be able to talk things out with people who know where you are coming from.

**Hugs**
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lovemykidstoo 07:49 AM 10-02-2012
Originally Posted by Soccermom:
It is so nice to be able to come here and discuss these types of things with fellow DPs. I don't know what I would do without all of you.
Nothing is black and white with child care...there are always grey areas and odd things that come up, it is comforting to be able to talk things out with people who know where you are coming from.

**Hugs**
I wish you luck, I really do. I'm sure it is beyond frustrating. I hope that things turn around quickly one way or the other. You care and that's what makes the difference!
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Blackcat31 08:00 AM 10-02-2012
Not to add more fuel to this but how do you know mom really talked to a therapist? Maybe she is just saying that because she is trying (again) to make excuses for her dd and saying someone qualified said it makes it more believable than the words coming from her.

Also how does a therapist evaulate and advise about a child he/she hasn't seen and only knows info the mom provided which is kind of biases already since it is coming from mom who wants nothing more than to sweep this under the rug and not deal with it.

I only say all of this because I have 3 family therapists as DCM's and one is a child behavial specialist and ALL of them said they would NEVER advise a parent without seeing the child and ALL of them said they would NEVER excuse an 8 yr olds stealing as reactions to a move...they all advised that the girl is plenty old enough to understand right from wrong and knows full well what stealing means and the advice mom says she got from a therapist is what they would have said about a 3 yr old stealing things.

This girl needs some serious help. You are also risking the trust of your own children and I just don't want them to come back and be angry at you for helping the DCG and DCM keep this under wraps.

I understand that you would be out income if you termed but in all honesty, isn't the faith and trust your own children have in you worth more than that?

If you really want to keep them and not term, I would be tempted to tell DCM that she can stay ONLY if she is immediately placed in some sort of counseling and this can all be openly discussed so that EVERYONE who lives in your home is on the same page.

I am so sorry you are dealing with this as I know this can be a really uncomfortable and touchy situation.
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sharlan 08:04 AM 10-02-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Not to add more fuel to this but how do you know mom really talked to a therapist? Maybe she is just saying that because she is trying (again) to make excuses for her dd and saying someone qualified said it makes it more believable than the words coming from her.

Also how does a therapist evaulate and advise about a child he/she hasn't seen and only knows info the mom provided which is kind of biases already since it is coming from mom who wants nothing more than to sweep this under the rug and not deal with it.

I only say all of this because I have 3 family therapists as DCM's and one is a child behavial specialist and ALL of them said they would NEVER advise a parent without seeing the child and ALL of them said they would NEVER excuse an 8 yr olds stealing as reactions to a move...they all advised that the girl is plenty old enough to understand right from wrong and knows full well what stealing means and the advice mom says she got from a therapist is what they would have said about a 3 yr old stealing things.

This girl needs some serious help. You are also risking the trust of your own children and I just don't want them to come back and be angry at you for helping the DCG and DCM keep this under wraps.

I understand that you would be out income if you termed but in all honesty, isn't the faith and trust your own children have in you worth more than that?

If you really want to keep them and not term, I would be tempted to tell DCM that she can stay ONLY if she is immediately placed in some sort of counseling and this can all be openly discussed so that EVERYONE who lives in your home is on the same page.

I am so sorry you are dealing with this as I know this can be a really uncomfortable and touchy situation.
I agree with Blackcat.
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Crystal 08:05 AM 10-02-2012
Originally Posted by Meeko:
I understand that the daycare child may have had some turmoil recently. But we ALL have turmoil in our lives at one time or another. That is no excuse for stealing. She is not a two year old who doesn't know what's she's doing. She's eight. Plenty old enough to know she is stealing and plenty old enough to be disciplined and face the consequences of her choices.

I wouldn't tip-toe around it. If you decide to keep the girl, she needs to know exactly what is going to happen.

She needs to know she is loved........BUT...

She needs to know that trust is gone and has to be earned back.
She needs to know she is going to be watched closely.
She needs to know she will get a deliberate pat down at pick up whether she likes it or not.
She needs to know that your daughter is very unhappy with her.
She needs to know that her choice of toys to play with is very limited.

Personally, I would also tell her that the police will be called if she steals as much as fluff off the rug.

Then she needs to begin the long hard climb back to being trusted and respected. It's a hard life lesson, but she needs to learn it NOW. Treading lightly around the child and putting it down to outside problems etc. etc. will only mean trouble later on when she is older and the consequences are so much harder.

The problem needs nipped in the bud right now. Either let her go, or be willing to issue some very tough love.

If you keep her enrolled, let your daughter know exactly what is going to happen. Let her know that people deserve a second chance, but that you put her first and will be diligent in making sure her things are safe. Tell her you will term care if the girl steps out of line.

I would not hush-hush a thing. The girl needs to know that feeling uncomfortable/embarrassed etc. are part of the consequences of doing something wrong.

She can still be loved, and have fun at your home and be accepted...but she needs to take responsibility. Cushioning her feelings will do her no good whatsoever in the long run.
THIS!!!! THIS!!!! THIS!!!!!
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sahm2three 08:29 AM 10-02-2012
Originally Posted by Soccermom:
Sorry this is so long....but there is a lot of info.

Talked to DCM over the phone yesterday and DCM disclosed that DCG has been taking things from all over for the past month. DCM was unaware that this was happening until incident at my house happened. She has since discovered that this is a problem. There are more items to be returned to us today (One item in particular which my DD will be livid about..).

I talked with DCM and told her that I expect DCG to apologize to my DD and not to me as the items taken do not belong to me.

We talked a long time and DCM has discussed with a child psychologist who has told her that this probably has a lot to do with the big move they have just made and that DCG is having trouble adjusting to her new surroundings. He said in time she should hopefully adjust and things will go back to normal for DCG and her family...but what if they don't?

As an adult who has taken many psychology courses at University, I completely understand what is happening and don't blame the child..however I am also a mom and this DCG is creating a negative, anxious environment for my children to come home to.

I have always said that if a child negatively affects my children, I will term as my own children come first...I am a mom first.

I do like DCG and we had all settled into a really great routine prior to this. Everyone got along and things were good. Also at this point in the year it is near impossible to replace SA DCKs. Without her and her sister, I am out 100$per week.

My kids are already stressed about the whole thing, they have hoarded so many things into their rooms that you can hardly walk in there. To a child, having anything taken from you is a huge deal.

I have put measures in place to try to avoid her taking anything else but she can be quite sneaky..

I told DCM that if I see DCG take things, I will call her out on it quietly and have her put them back and also if DCM finds things on her or in her bag to please return them discreetly..BUT if my children SEE her take things, I will have no choice but to term because I promised my kids that if she ever took something again she would be out, and I won't go back on that promise.

What are your opinions on this whole thing? Should I have just termed on the spot or should I keep trying with this DCG?
I had a boy who stole countless things from my home while here. When we found out, we talked to him and told him it wasn't ok, made him apologize and then when it happened again, the mom and I decided that the child would be "patted down" before leaving my home. I felt bad at first, but it did keep him from doing it.
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MizzCheryl 10:34 AM 10-02-2012
I would search her daily!. Look thryu her bag and make her empty all pockets. Mom should too.
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My3cents 10:45 AM 10-02-2012
Originally Posted by sahm2three:
I had a boy who stole countless things from my home while here. When we found out, we talked to him and told him it wasn't ok, made him apologize and then when it happened again, the mom and I decided that the child would be "patted down" before leaving my home. I felt bad at first, but it did keep him from doing it.
for a little child yes, but for an older child.......no way. I am not going to pat a child down, the parent can do this.

If you want to borrow something from me, just ask, most likely I will let you borrow it, but don't take my things. I worked hard for them.

I had one that liked shiny stuff. Would take detour from the bathroom right into my kids rooms and take anything that had a bling. When the mom brought back the finds and made the child apologist everything was gold and shiny and like what you would find in a hawks nest. Right around 8-9. A learning experience. My kids felt violated, but they knew I didn't let this child do this. My own kids learned from this but now they are grown up and they will never forget it. Remember that kid........ I didn't term, the parents were mortified and the family in general were good people. It was just something this child wanted to try for a bit. It was hard to trust this kid after this and it gave you a bad feeling about the child, but now looking back it was a stage this child went through as a kid. His brain new better then to take but he just wanted to see what he could get away with and maybe he thought he was going to be rich off his finds some day.

I say give the child another chance but make it known you will not tolerate stealing and that is not how your family does things. It is wrong to take something that does not belong to you and don't do it again.!!!
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Heidi 10:52 AM 10-02-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
I would not term over this for several reasons. This little girl needs help. Mom is willing to work with you and her. If you both can put your heads together and help her then that will be her lifesaver. To just give her the boot and make her more stressed out might make her problem worse. You need to just implement very strict security measures. Such as absolutely no bag will be allowed in your home. I would put her coat and bag somewhere that she doesn't have access to it. That takes care of the problem of stashing toys. I never let the dck's play with my kids toys anyway. Let her only play with the designated dc toys. The only other place she could have a toy hidden is on her person (pockets). I would have mom give her a quick pat when she picks up. It's not hard to see if a child has something in her pocket. The mom doesn't really even need to let the girl know what she is doing. If she picks her up or gives her a hug she could tell if she's hiding something.
I agree, although I would ask that mom be discreet about it. I think it could be dangerous to single dcg out, because that may actually make the situation worse. If she feels labeled, she may continue to act the part, KWIM?

I think you should talk to your children again. Of course, it's hard on them, and of course, it's unnacceptable. You are doing everything you can to stop the behavior, and will term if it happens again.

Now is the part though where they need to understand that sometimes, people need a second chance, and sometimes people do things they shouldn't because they are having a hard time with something. That doesn't make it ok, but a little empathy and some firm limits are in order. What a great life lesson!

You could also remind them that while their THINGS are important, this is a person we're talking about, and people always trump possessions.
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Crystal 12:31 PM 10-02-2012
What needs to be remembered is that this girl HAS been given a second chance. How many second chances should she get? I would term. I will not tolerate a liar or a thief, and a thief is both.
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Blackcat31 12:40 PM 10-02-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
What needs to be remembered is that this girl HAS been given a second chance. How many second chances should she get? I would term. I will not tolerate a liar or a thief, and a thief is both.
I agree. I am surprised so many members are saying that the OP should continue trying to help this child....especially when the mother is not doing anything to help her own child other than make a huge deal out of everyone keeping this quiet.

I know times have changed but I was babysitting other people's children at 9 years old so I honestly think that 8 years old is plenty old enough to know right from wrong.

Too many people making excuses for this child's behavior. I am willing to bet that this isn't the first time she has stolen something and who knows what this child's track record is at where she used to live.

Not to mention I am a child care provider not a counselor at a juvenile center so no way in he77 I am going to pat down an 8 year old daily before she comes in and then again when she leaves.
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sharlan 12:45 PM 10-02-2012
I'm wondering if a call to the former provider would show this was a problem prior to the move.........
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sharlan 12:46 PM 10-02-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I agree. I am surprised so many members are saying that the OP should continue trying to help this child....especially when the mother is not doing anything to help her own child other than make a huge deal out of everyone keeping this quiet.

I know times have changed but I was babysitting other people's children at 9 years old so I honestly think that 8 years old is plenty old enough to know right from wrong.

Too many people making excuses for this child's behavior. I am willing to bet that this isn't the first time she has stolen something and who knows what this child's track record is at where she used to live.

Not to mention I am a child care provider not a counselor at a juvenile center so no way in he77 I am going to pat down an 8 year old daily before she comes in and then again when she leaves.
The norm in today's society.
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lovemykidstoo 12:47 PM 10-02-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I agree. I am surprised so many members are saying that the OP should continue trying to help this child....especially when the mother is not doing anything to help her own child other than make a huge deal out of everyone keeping this quiet.

I know times have changed but I was babysitting other people's children at 9 years old so I honestly think that 8 years old is plenty old enough to know right from wrong.

Too many people making excuses for this child's behavior. I am willing to bet that this isn't the first time she has stolen something and who knows what this child's track record is at where she used to live.

Not to mention I am a child care provider not a counselor at a juvenile center so no way in he77 I am going to pat down an 8 year old daily before she comes in and then again when she leaves.
I guess I misunderstood, I thought that the mother was trying to help. Maybe I misread something. If the mother doesn't think there is a problem then maybe the girl ought to go, but I thought she was. I totally agree that an 8 year old knows right from wrong and I never said that I thought she should be handled with kid gloves so to speak or that there should be excuses made for her. I just thought there was pretty simple measures to make sure she doesn't take anything. Alot of kids have problems that we help them with (ie spitting, biting, hittiing, pushing, disrespect etc), why not help with this problem? I guess my personality would be to try and help her. Alot of times, we daycare providers are the only stable people in these children's lives and sometimes if we don't help, noone will. I have had situations alot of times where I was the only constant in a childs life, so my instinct would be to try and change that childs behavior. I dont' see anything wrong with that.
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Blackcat31 01:08 PM 10-02-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
I guess I misunderstood, I thought that the mother was trying to help. Maybe I misread something. If the mother doesn't think there is a problem then maybe the girl ought to go, but I thought she was. I totally agree that an 8 year old knows right from wrong and I never said that I thought she should be handled with kid gloves so to speak or that there should be excuses made for her. I just thought there was pretty simple measures to make sure she doesn't take anything. Alot of kids have problems that we help them with (ie spitting, biting, hittiing, pushing, disrespect etc), why not help with this problem? I guess my personality would be to try and help her. Alot of times, we daycare providers are the only stable people in these children's lives and sometimes if we don't help, noone will. I have had situations alot of times where I was the only constant in a childs life, so my instinct would be to try and change that childs behavior. I dont' see anything wrong with that.
Oh I agree that sometimes we ARE the only stable people in a child's life but at the same time I guess I just feel pretty strongly that this girl is 8 and to me, that is pretty old.

Also unless I missed something, the girl's mom is trying to hush hush the whole thing and doesn't want anyone to know about it and told the OP that she talked with a therapist but I don't buy that. She might very well of talked to one but again the story mom told is through HER eyes and not simply factual...kwim? ALL parent's will try and soften the truth or change details etc to protect their child.

I also feel like this is an issue that is effecting OP's family and I personally would NEVER let my job become one that is putting me in such a position with my own children that they are stashing and hiding their own belongings in the own rooms. I mean that is really really sad. As a child, your room is your sanctuary, your safe place, your whole world (holds all your prized possessions etc) and to be in such a state that you have to hide or protect your belongings is heartbreaking to me.

Plus like I said, who really knows this girls past behaviors and that this hasn't happened before? We really just don't know.

I guess the thing I have the biggest issue with is the way the DCM is behaving. Now she is bringing a big bag of more things the girl stole back to the OP's house That says to me that there is a whole lot more going on in the DCG's home that even the DCm is obviously not aware.

The whole situation is sad and I would absolutely help and be supportive but ONLY if two things happened:
If I didn't think those two things were being addressed/happening, then I would be terming IMMEDIATELY.

Oh and FWIW~ I am so beyond the "I can help" or "fix" everyone's child. I am old and I am tired. These children have parents and I am not one of them. I know that seems sad but it is what it is. I will support, but I won't "fix" or "cure" for anyone other than my own family.
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Bookworm 01:19 PM 10-02-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I agree. I am surprised so many members are saying that the OP should continue trying to help this child....especially when the mother is not doing anything to help her own child other than make a huge deal out of everyone keeping this quiet.

I know times have changed but I was babysitting other people's children at 9 years old so I honestly think that 8 years old is plenty old enough to know right from wrong.

Too many people making excuses for this child's behavior. I am willing to bet that this isn't the first time she has stolen something and who knows what this child's track record is at where she used to live.

Not to mention I am a child care provider not a counselor at a juvenile center so no way in he77 I am going to pat down an 8 year old daily before she comes in and then again when she leaves.
I was thinking the exact same thing. It also sounds like DCM is finally getting confronted on an existing problem and she's not happy. IF she was stealing from other centers, maybe DCM convinced them to keep it quite but it's not working with you. I wouldn't be surprised if DCM found an excuse to pull her if you don't do what DCM wants.
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SunshineMama 01:33 PM 10-02-2012
I did not read all of the other responses, but if i had an 8 year old stealing from my children she would be gone. My children need to know that:

1. Stealing will not be tolerated by anyone in the house and there will be immediate consequences.

2. They have a right to feel safe and secure in their own home, even their own belongings.

If your children do not feel they (or their items) are safe in their own home, that can create problems for them. If children are concerned about keeping themselves or their belongings safe, then their minds are not free to think about other important things, like playing, learning, etc. They need to be confident that their home is their sanctuary. Yes, the little girl needs help and stability, but your own kids need to know that you have their back and have a zero tolerance rule for anything that makes them feel uncomfortable in their own home.

If you do decide to keep the 8 year old, have you thought about telling her that she will not be allowed to come back if she ever did it again?

I had one little boy tell my daughter that if she didnt play a game he wanted he was going to punch her in the face. The ONLY reason this little boy is still in my home is because he has no history of this type of behavior at all and he is always the best, sweetest kid I have ever met. But I told him that if I ever heard him say that again to anyone in my home, that he would never be allowed to come back here and play ever again. It was harsh but it got the message through and I squashed that type of aggression immediately.
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lovemykidstoo 01:55 PM 10-02-2012
BC,I seriously will have to go back and look because I honestly thought taht the mother was trying to help too. Was that on a different thread maybe? Like I said in my last post, if the mom is not trying to help then I would boot her. It has to be a partnership.

I don't think that the OP's children should feel like their toys are going to be ripped off. Absolutely not. I also don't believe that the dck's should be allowed to use any of the daycare providers toys either. There is no way that I would ever allow my dck's in my children's bedrooms. I have never allowed that since day 1. You're right, we are not social workers and we can't save the world, but if and only if the parents want to be a help would I do it. Did I also miss where the father is in all of this?
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Blackcat31 03:05 PM 10-02-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
BC,I seriously will have to go back and look because I honestly thought taht the mother was trying to help too. Was that on a different thread maybe? Like I said in my last post, if the mom is not trying to help then I would boot her. It has to be a partnership.

I don't think that the OP's children should feel like their toys are going to be ripped off. Absolutely not. I also don't believe that the dck's should be allowed to use any of the daycare providers toys either. There is no way that I would ever allow my dck's in my children's bedrooms. I have never allowed that since day 1. You're right, we are not social workers and we can't save the world, but if and only if the parents want to be a help would I do it. Did I also miss where the father is in all of this?
Here are links to the other threads.
https://www.daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51564
https://www.daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51610

In the first thread OP says:

"DCM made her give it to me and apologize but then DCM tells me that her DD is not a thief and does not want her to get a reputation as a thief...well she did steal which says thief to me BUT she is only 8. She said because DD doesn't know why she did it, means that she didn't steal intentionally....."

"She told me she does not want anyone to know about this and that DD does not want my kids to know about it and does not want me to tell my husband."

and then in this thread said the DCM talked with a child therapist but didn't actually bring child in to see the therapist. Which I honestly don't believe that she talked to the therapist and if she (DCM) really did, she told her the facts from her viewpoint, which are obviously biased.....kwim?

FWIW~ I am NOT trying to be a hard a$$ about this but there are a couple factors that keep leading me back to feeling like I do about it and they are the fact that the child IS old enough to know right from wrong, child has obviously been "stealing" things for a while now and the DCM's initial reaction to the whole situation and the wanting to hide it.

ALL of those things just make me feel VERY uncomfortable about the whole situation and coupled with the fact that DCM has yet to mention or even address how her DD's actions have made OP's children feel is also sad. DCM seems ONLY to be concerned about what everyone else thinks of HER child but OP's kids must be heartbroken and feeling very violated and betrayed.

So with that, I honestly hope OP comes to a satisfactory arrangement with this family regardless of what she chooses to do, I will be supportive for her (OP) and hope that she is never put in this position again.

As one mom to another, I so wish I could make it better for you OP. ((((Hugs)))) for dealing with this in the first place.
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countrymom 03:14 PM 10-02-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
What needs to be remembered is that this girl HAS been given a second chance. How many second chances should she get? I would term. I will not tolerate a liar or a thief, and a thief is both.
yup I agree too.
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countrymom 03:21 PM 10-02-2012
I too have a feeling that this isn't the first time the child has stolen. I wonder if she's stealing from school too. Do you know where she came from maybe call the center.
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lovemykidstoo 03:54 PM 10-02-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Here are links to the other threads.
https://www.daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51564
https://www.daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51610

In the first thread OP says:

"DCM made her give it to me and apologize but then DCM tells me that her DD is not a thief and does not want her to get a reputation as a thief...well she did steal which says thief to me BUT she is only 8. She said because DD doesn't know why she did it, means that she didn't steal intentionally....."

"She told me she does not want anyone to know about this and that DD does not want my kids to know about it and does not want me to tell my husband."

and then in this thread said the DCM talked with a child therapist but didn't actually bring child in to see the therapist. Which I honestly don't believe that she talked to the therapist and if she (DCM) really did, she told her the facts from her viewpoint, which are obviously biased.....kwim?

FWIW~ I am NOT trying to be a hard a$$ about this but there are a couple factors that keep leading me back to feeling like I do about it and they are the fact that the child IS old enough to know right from wrong, child has obviously been "stealing" things for a while now and the DCM's initial reaction to the whole situation and the wanting to hide it.

ALL of those things just make me feel VERY uncomfortable about the whole situation and coupled with the fact that DCM has yet to mention or even address how her DD's actions have made OP's children feel is also sad. DCM seems ONLY to be concerned about what everyone else thinks of HER child but OP's kids must be heartbroken and feeling very violated and betrayed.

So with that, I honestly hope OP comes to a satisfactory arrangement with this family regardless of what she chooses to do, I will be supportive for her (OP) and hope that she is never put in this position again.

As one mom to another, I so wish I could make it better for you OP. ((((Hugs)))) for dealing with this in the first place.
Thanks for the links My brain is getting mushy these days. I even replied in the one thread duh!!! Anyhoo, I don't understand why the mother would not want the OP to tell her husband that is strange. Does she think the husband will say give them the boot? I would never keep anything from my husband, no way. Usually kids do bad things because they are able to. Meaning the parents usually let them get away with it. I would definately say, like I have a couple of times, if the mother is not going to work with the OP on this legitimately, then I would term them. If she is going to make excuses for her instead of truly addressing the problem, game over. If you had someone that was truly ashamed of what happened and truly felt bad for the OP and her family and wanted to sincerely work the problem out with her daughter, then I would work with them. After re-reading what she had written it might appear that she isn't going to put much effort into it.
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lovemykidstoo 03:56 PM 10-02-2012
Maybe I missed it, but did the girl ever go to the party?
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Soccermom 05:36 PM 10-02-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
Maybe I missed it, but did the girl ever go to the party?
Yes....I had my mother keep an eye on her the entire time. DCD picked up on friday evening and payed me, then he said - Thanks. See you monday.

So I assumed they had made the right choice and chosen to keep her home so I was glad I didn't need to say anything about it.

Wrong. She came. I couldn't turn her away at the door in front of all the other parents and party kiddos. I didn't have the heart.

Then last night I get a call from a parent asking if we had found her DD's change purse. Seems to have mysteriously disappeared out of her dance bag.

Obviously I need to fire my mother as a body guard...

Have mentionned to DCM who told me she would look for it.

**Scream!**
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lovemykidstoo 05:43 PM 10-02-2012
Originally Posted by Soccermom:
Yes....I had my mother keep an eye on her the entire time. DCD picked up on friday evening and payed me, then he said - Thanks. See you monday.

So I assumed they had made the right choice and chosen to keep her home so I was glad I didn't need to say anything about it.

Wrong. She came. I couldn't turn her away at the door in front of all the other parents and party kiddos. I didn't have the heart.

Then last night I get a call from a parent asking if we had found her DD's change purse. Seems to have mysteriously disappeared out of her dance bag.

Obviously I need to fire my mother as a body guard...

Have mentionned to DCM who told me she would look for it.

**Scream!**
Well that stinks that you were pretty much relieved that she wasn't coming to the party only to have her show up. Think dad didn't want to handle that conversation with you so he said see ya Monday? You know how men hate conflict! Where was the party? Are you pretty sure it was her that took it? That is bulls**t if she did.
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sharlan 05:50 PM 10-02-2012
Stealing from you is wrong. Stealing from a guest in your home is way out of line. I'm sorry, I understand money is tight, but it's time to let this one go.
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Soccermom 06:05 PM 10-02-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
Well that stinks that you were pretty much relieved that she wasn't coming to the party only to have her show up. Think dad didn't want to handle that conversation with you so he said see ya Monday? You know how men hate conflict! Where was the party? Are you pretty sure it was her that took it? That is bulls**t if she did.
I think he was avoiding the conversation. He likely disagreed with the choice to send her to the party but was letting DCM call the shots...OR he is not aware of what is going on.

I can't say she took it for sure...I trust that DCM will return it if she did. My mother tells me she kept a close eye on her...but that is the problem with a stealer..you no longer trust them and every time something is misplaced you suspect that it was taken and get angry.


Sharlan- I agree. Either that or I will need to start taking some medication to deal with the stress...lol. She was here today and I didn't even want to go to the washroom because I wasn't sure what she would do while I was in there. I suspect her all the time, every move she makes I am watching her. She is always watching me too and sneaking about. My own kids were trying to talk to me and I could not even really pay attention too much because she is so sneaky...she will use that moment to swipe something.
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Bookworm 06:10 PM 10-02-2012
I agree with Sharlan. If you to have to watch her to the point where you can't even focus on a conversation with your kids, it's time for her to go.
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lovemykidstoo 06:26 PM 10-02-2012
Originally Posted by Soccermom:
I think he was avoiding the conversation. He likely disagreed with the choice to send her to the party but was letting DCM call the shots...OR he is not aware of what is going on.

I can't say she took it for sure...I trust that DCM will return it if she did. My mother tells me she kept a close eye on her...but that is the problem with a stealer..you no longer trust them and every time something is misplaced you suspect that it was taken and get angry.


Sharlan- I agree. Either that or I will need to start taking some medication to deal with the stress...lol. She was here today and I didn't even want to go to the washroom because I wasn't sure what she would do while I was in there. I suspect her all the time, every move she makes I am watching her. She is always watching me too and sneaking about. My own kids were trying to talk to me and I could not even really pay attention too much because she is so sneaky...she will use that moment to swipe something.
I don't know, the more I read the stories that you tell us, I'm leaning more of letting her go. Especially if she took that change purse. That would be a definate exit!
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daycare 06:31 PM 10-02-2012
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
What if your kids catch YOU allowing it to pass? Where will their trust lie in you at that point?
I don't think your decision to give her another chance, or even work with her is necessarily a bad one, but hiding it from your kids, when they already feel betrayed? That could have some incredibly long reaching consequences.
I agree with this...
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