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Old 01-29-2014, 07:43 PM
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Default Did I Mis-Use My Backbone?

I have a family with a Kindergartener and a 3rd grader.

They get here at 7:15, then the 3rd grader leaves for school at 8:45, and later I drive the Kindergartener to PM Kinder (along with another Kinder girl) at 12:45. All the kids arrive back at my house at 3:40, and these two are picked up at 4:20.

For 4 weeks, dad will be doing swing shift. So their 2 kids will only be here after school for 40 minutes.

Yesterday Mom texted me and said, "Hey, just curious, are our rates going to be changing while [Dad] is working swing shift?" I got the text about 8am, but waited till 3pm to answer because I wanted to give it thought.

My backbone came out, and I texted back, "Unfortunately I can't reduce your rate. But [Dad] is welcome to bring the girls during any of their normal hours. (Call first so I'll know to expect them!) And if it would help him, I can take [little one] to school if he wants to bring her over by 12:30. Also, I won't charge you extra for President's Day [they'd both be here for about 3 hours that afternoon] "

Do you guys think this is fair? My logic was that THEY are not out any money for this different work shift, so why should I lose money? And also, the fact that their pay is for enrollment, not attendance.

Reassure me, please! Or if you feel I should have cut them a break, please tell me!!!! I can take it.
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Old 01-29-2014, 07:47 PM
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I think you did exactly the right thing! If you discounted this time I'm sure dad would do a lot more swing shift and you would end up resenting the situation and losing money. In my opinion
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Old 01-29-2014, 09:18 PM
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I agree, why should their sudden change cost you money? You can't just suddenly fill those spots for 2wks only during that time. I consider it "holding their spot" for their normal schedule when they go back in 2wks. I have in my contract that the days they chose to keep them home are still billable days. They're "choosing" to keep the kids home.
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Old 01-29-2014, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by TwinKristi View Post
I agree, why should their sudden change cost you money? You can't just suddenly fill those spots for 2wks only during that time. I consider it "holding their spot" for their normal schedule when they go back in 2wks. I have in my contract that the days they chose to keep them home are still billable days. They're "choosing" to keep the kids home.
I'm the same as far as having them pay whether they're here or not. Same pay 52 weeks per year whether they're sick, on vacation, holiday, I'm on vacation, etc. Same pay. This is four weeks though, and I do have a twinge of guilt. If you total it up, It's 140 hours that the girls WON'T be here that they're paying me for.

Oh well, it'll pass, right?!!?
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Old 01-30-2014, 02:38 AM
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I'm the same as far as having them pay whether they're here or not. Same pay 52 weeks per year whether they're sick, on vacation, holiday, I'm on vacation, etc. Same pay. This is four weeks though, and I do have a twinge of guilt. If you total it up, It's 140 hours that the girls WON'T be here that they're paying me for.

Oh well, it'll pass, right?!!?
But that is 'their' decision. They can bring them.

It is not fair to expect you to go without your normal income because they have a change of plans. Plus, like someone else said, dad may try to get that shift again because it saves them on daycare costs.

I always think of those situations as it isn't fair for the other parents who may take a day off during that period and you'd charge them for that one or two days. Why should they have to pay but these parents get a break? I've actually told that to people who asked for a lower rate for a weird circumstance. "It wouldn't be fair to my other parents if they take a day off and have to pay and your family doesn't."

Laurel
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Old 01-30-2014, 04:17 AM
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I'm the same as far as having them pay whether they're here or not. Same pay 52 weeks per year whether they're sick, on vacation, holiday, I'm on vacation, etc. Same pay. This is four weeks though, and I do have a twinge of guilt. If you total it up, It's 140 hours that the girls WON'T be here that they're paying me for.

Oh well, it'll pass, right?!!?
Right now, it's *just* four weeks. I'm willing to bet that had you discounted, you'd be seeing a lot more shift changes. I guess I don't understand why you think you/your income should have to suffer for four weeks because they made a shift change.
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Old 01-30-2014, 06:12 AM
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Q. Would you have enrolled them with only the hours they will be using for the next 4 weeks?

I know I would not.

You did the right thing. They already knew they would need to stick to their contract, I suspect, with how DMC worded her question.

It was an unrealistic expectation on their part. They are so lucky that you are even willing to do all that shuffling every day. That sounds stressful and exhausting from where I sit.
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Old 01-30-2014, 06:33 AM
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You did the right thing! I still would have charged.
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Old 01-30-2014, 09:29 AM
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The only time I allow or give a rate change is if a family is permanently changing their hours. I require 2 weeks notice for a family to change hours.

Any changes in a family's schedule that is temporary is "THEIR" issue to deal with.

Can you imagine the scenarios parents would come up with if they thought they were owed a reduction in fees for temporary or short term changes?!?

Fees are based on enrollment not attendance.
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:47 AM
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Another thought is that if you had a job outside of your home and your boss kept cutting your hours and reducing your paycheck (what this family is doing to you), you'd look elsewhere for a job with more hours. You could also put it to them that way....if you want to.

Laurel
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:50 AM
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Well 4 wks is even worse! I don't know why I thought 2wks. LOL But yeah, it's not fair to the others. Imagine if that 4wks was spread our over a year, that's really minuscule in the big picture and like others pointed out, once they figure out they can manipulate their pay scale by dad taking these shifts than it will keep happening. It's their choice to keep them home, most people who work swing shift sleep in those early in the day hours. Maybe you should suggest he use that time to rest and keep your normal schedule for the kids' sake since they're paying for it anyway. Not to mention imagine how after a week of doing this new schedule that you've discounted that they want to bring the kids anyway because dad realizes he needs sleep and then you have to change things up again. Not fair to you at all!
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucy View Post
I have a family with a Kindergartener and a 3rd grader.

They get here at 7:15, then the 3rd grader leaves for school at 8:45, and later I drive the Kindergartener to PM Kinder (along with another Kinder girl) at 12:45. All the kids arrive back at my house at 3:40, and these two are picked up at 4:20.

For 4 weeks, dad will be doing swing shift. So their 2 kids will only be here after school for 40 minutes.

Yesterday Mom texted me and said, "Hey, just curious, are our rates going to be changing while [Dad] is working swing shift?" I got the text about 8am, but waited till 3pm to answer because I wanted to give it thought.

My backbone came out, and I texted back, "Unfortunately I can't reduce your rate. But [Dad] is welcome to bring the girls during any of their normal hours. (Call first so I'll know to expect them!) And if it would help him, I can take [little one] to school if he wants to bring her over by 12:30. Also, I won't charge you extra for President's Day [they'd both be here for about 3 hours that afternoon] "

Do you guys think this is fair? My logic was that THEY are not out any money for this different work shift, so why should I lose money? And also, the fact that their pay is for enrollment, not attendance.

Reassure me, please! Or if you feel I should have cut them a break, please tell me!!!! I can take it.
I feel like you cut your own throat by not charging for Presidents Day.
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  #13  
Old 01-30-2014, 11:04 AM
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I agree with others.

My paycheck is based on enrollment (for when parents are working or in school) not attendance. I need to be able to depend upon a steady reliable income. I am not doing this for fun. I am doing it to make a living and better my family. The fun just happens to come along with it- on a good day I work Hard! You do too! I am not doing this to make life easier on other people, I am providing a service.

I don't think your backbone was hard enough you should not have offered a free Holiday. I also know there is a huge learning curve to this business, and we all learn at own pace and find out what tolerances we are willing to put up with and what we are not.

Best-
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Old 01-30-2014, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Play Care View Post
Right now, it's *just* four weeks. I'm willing to bet that had you discounted, you'd be seeing a lot more shift changes. I didn't go into a lot of detail because I tend to get too wordy in my posts, and don't want people to get bored reading the "unimportant" parts LOL. This is a military dad, so he had no choice. He doesn't "pick" his shifts. He has no say in the matter.I guess I don't understand why you think you/your income should have to suffer for four weeks because they made a shift change. I don't think it should. I was wanting reassurance because for once I did what was right, not what my bleeding heart told me to do.
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Q. Would you have enrolled them with only the hours they will be using for the next 4 weeks? Truthfully, it's so hard to get clients in my small town which is over-saturated with home daycares and church centers. I'm quite sure I would have taken them. When they started, I had THREE kids.

They are so lucky that you are even willing to do all that shuffling every day. Shuffling? Could you explain what you mean? I'm not quite sure.That sounds stressful and exhausting from where I sit.
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Originally Posted by TwinKristi View Post
once they figure out they can manipulate their pay scale by dad taking these shifts than it will keep happening. He has no control over what shifts he gets. He didn't want this shift. It's their choice to keep them home, most people who work swing shift sleep in those early in the day hours. Maybe you should suggest he use that time to rest and keep your normal schedule for the kids' sake since they're paying for it anyway. This wouldn't make much of a difference to them. He has to get up by 8am to take the 3rd grader to school anyway, and if it were me, I would never be able to go back to bed. Besides, he'll be home by 11pm and go right to bed, so that's at least 8 hours of sleep.
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I feel like you cut your own throat by not charging for Presidents Day. I'm VERY comfortable making this compromise. It'll only be from 1:30 to 4:20 that day. I have all school-agers, so it will be nice having them all here to keep each other busy.
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I don't think your backbone was hard enough you should not have offered a free Holiday. I also know there is a huge learning curve to this business, and we all learn at own pace and find out what tolerances we are willing to put up with and what we are not. I've done Daycare for 20 years.
Thanks so much, ladies! In my explanations above, I'm truely not trying to backpeddle or make excuses. I just hadn't fully explained things in my original post because it would have muddled up my original intent, which was to get reassurance that I used my backbone correctly. It's just in my nature and my personality to want to "do unto others" (totally NOT meant in a religious way!!), so I tend to feel twinges of guilt when I do what is ACTUALLY the CORRECT thing to do. I know in my analytical mind that it's the right thing to do, but my people-pleasing side tries to change my mind. That's all......

Thanks again for your help, gals!!!
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Old 01-31-2014, 11:07 AM
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Cat Herder.... what did you mean by "all the shuffling?" I can't figure it out LOL
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Old 01-31-2014, 11:14 AM
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Shuffling= Transporting, having kids in and out more than once a day = constant disruptions to your schedule = stress.

Many providers only allow one drop-off/one pick-up a day. Many provider cannot/will not transport. Many providers have drop-off hours forbiding arrivals after morning snack.

(sorry for the delay... was shoving lunch in my face. )
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Old 01-31-2014, 11:16 AM
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Another thought is that if you had a job outside of your home and your boss kept cutting your hours and reducing your paycheck (what this family is doing to you), you'd look elsewhere for a job with more hours. You could also put it to them that way....if you want to.

Laurel
Great point
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Old 01-31-2014, 11:19 AM
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Shuffling= Transporting, having kids in and out more than once a day = constant disruptions to your schedule = stress.

Many providers only allow one drop-off/one pick-up a day. Many provider cannot/will not transport. Many providers have drop-off hours limiting arrivals after morning snack.

(sorry for the delay... was shoving lunch in my face. )
I guess I still don't get it. Maybe I explained something wrong. I have all school agers. They arrive in the morning, leave for school, (walk) and then come back after school. (Walk) Two of them have PM kindergarten and there's no school bus, so I drive them 2 blocks to school. They all walk back here together after school.
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Old 01-31-2014, 11:26 AM
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I guess I still don't get it. Maybe I explained something wrong. I have all school agers. They arrive in the morning 5leave for school, and come back after school. Two of them have PM kindergarten and there's no school bus, so I drive them 2 blocks to school. They all walk back here together after school.
I was making the point that they are lucky to have found you.

Not many providers are willing to do what you do.

That is how I started my daycare and it was work...... I would not do it again to save my house.

That is all....

Edited to add: (I also had infants in tow.... my own. I did not know you had no kids mid day. Lucky )
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Old 01-31-2014, 11:41 AM
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I was making the point that they are lucky to have found you.

Not many providers are willing to do what you do.

That is how I started my daycare and it was work...... I would not do it again to save my house.

That is all....
So you mean just the fact that I watch all school agers?? Ok. I can see where that's not for everyone. I actually didn't do it "on purpose". In fact this is the first time in 20 yrs of DC that this has happened. They've all (5) grown up at my house, so I've "trained" them MY way lol. In the past when I've taken older kids who didnt grow up with me, I've regretted it KWIM?

And really, there's no "schedule"to disrupt. They ARE the schedule, if that makes sense.

I considered advertising for younger ones to be here while the rest were in school, but realized this would give me from 12:50 to 3:40 with NO kids!! It's been awesome! I care for my mom with Alzheimer's, and can now take her to appointments during that time. And can do my own appts too. I had a haircut at 2pm not long ago. It seemed so weird!

Anyway, there's no "shuffling". I drive the 2 girls literally 2 blocks to school. That's it. I never gave it a 2nd thought or thought that other providers would find it odd or unusual.
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Old 01-31-2014, 11:56 AM
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Thanks so much, ladies! In my explanations above, I'm truely not trying to backpeddle or make excuses. I just hadn't fully explained things in my original post because it would have muddled up my original intent, which was to get reassurance that I used my backbone correctly. It's just in my nature and my personality to want to "do unto others" (totally NOT meant in a religious way!!), so I tend to feel twinges of guilt when I do what is ACTUALLY the CORRECT thing to do. I know in my analytical mind that it's the right thing to do, but my people-pleasing side tries to change my mind. That's all......

Thanks again for your help, gals!!!
I guess I reassure you then Even after nineteen years we still learn new things. I have- My backbone is often softened from my love of helping/caring of other people and realizing they are human beings just trying to make it day to day like the rest of us- (not that they are aliens.......lol, just cracked myself up not hard to do on a Friday) I don't understand why you would give a free day on Presidents Day? but with that said we all do what we feel is right and as long as you don't resent your decision down the road you probably are all set. If I was one of your clients and I found out you did special for another client and not me that wouldn't set well with me-

I see so many women on this forum that have no backbone or have one and don't use it out of fear- I try to encourage, empower, and keep my own strong in a profession that it is constantly being challenged.

I too believe in do onto others- but I admit I slide sometimes out of a poor attitude from lack of it in others and past experiences. I work on this all the time. I believe in being a good person in general and I strive for this everyday. Being a good person doesn't mean that I have to let go of everything that I know to be right or put myself behind so others can always step ahead. I think being a good person means taking care of ourselves so we can be good to others.

Best and happy weekend to ya
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Old 01-31-2014, 12:17 PM
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So you mean just the fact that I watch all school agers?? Ok. I can see where that's not for everyone. I actually didn't do it "on purpose". In fact this is the first time in 20 yrs of DC that this has happened. They've all (5) grown up at my house, so I've "trained" them MY way lol. In the past when I've taken older kids who didnt grow up with me, I've regretted it KWIM?

And really, there's no "schedule"to disrupt. They ARE the schedule, if that makes sense.

I considered advertising for younger ones to be here while the rest were in school, but realized this would give me from 12:50 to 3:40 with NO kids!! It's been awesome! I care for my mom with Alzheimer's, and can now take her to appointments during that time. And can do my own appts too. I had a haircut at 2pm not long ago. It seemed so weird!

Anyway, there's no "shuffling". I drive the 2 girls literally 2 blocks to school. That's it. I never gave it a 2nd thought or thought that other providers would find it odd or unusual.
It makes sense now that you explained you only have older kids. My program is mostly birth- 5, so having to bring SA kids to and from would be a HUGE imposition. But if I only had SA kids it *might* be a service I would offer.
I think most of of this visual of trying to get all the littles into car seats, perhaps even having to wake infants, transporting, perhaps having to bring everyone into the school for pick ups, trying to get everyone back in the car, etc. and we go
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Old 01-31-2014, 12:19 PM
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I guess I reassure you then ???

Even after nineteen years we still learn new things. I have- My backbone is often softened from my love of helping/caring of other people and realizing they are human beings just trying to make it day to day like the rest of us Yeah, that pretty much sums it up for me too. I usually know the right thing to do, but as I think I said above, my bleeding heart tries to talk me out of it.

I don't understand why you would give a free day on Presidents Day? But I'm not. I'm just not charging my "non-school day surcharge". I'm not deducting anything. Their pay will remain exactly the same four the full 4 weeks. The only difference is that if they had been here a FULL day on Pres Day, they would have paid EXTRA. I'm waiving that part only. Combining the 2 girls' hours, they would normally (on a regular SCHOOL day) be here 10 hours, 20 min. On Pres Day with Dad working Swing, they'll be here a combined total of SIX hours. It was a trade off for me. I'm quite comfortable with it. No free days here!!!

but with that said we all do what we feel is right and as long as you don't resent your decision down the road you probably are all set. If I was one of your clients and I found out you did special for another client and not me that wouldn't set well with me- No special at all. I guess I don't get the way of thinking. So I'm going to have them LESS time than I would on a school-day, but I'm going to upcharge them because it's a holiday? Even though they'll be here LESS time? Totally NOT trying to be snarky or argumentative. I truly don't get it. Please don't think I'm picking a fight.

I see so many women on this forum that have no backbone or have one and don't use it out of fear- I try to encourage, empower, and keep my own strong in a profession that it is constantly being challenged. And I SOOOooooo appreciate this forum, and you, for JUST THAT REASON!! We need to give each other advice, and to reassure each other that we've done the right thing even when we feel guilty about doing what we KNOW is right. This forum is AWESOME for that!!!

I too believe in do onto others- but I admit I slide sometimes out of a poor attitude from lack of it in others and past experiences. I work on this all the time. I believe in being a good person in general and I strive for this everyday. Being a good person doesn't mean that I have to let go of everything that I know to be right or put myself behind so others can always step ahead. I think being a good person means taking care of ourselves so we can be good to others. Absolutely correct.

Best and happy weekend to ya
Thank you!!
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Old 01-31-2014, 12:28 PM
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It makes sense now that you explained you only have older kids. My program is mostly birth- 5, so having to bring SA kids to and from would be a HUGE imposition. But if I only had SA kids it *might* be a service I would offer.
I think most of of this visual of trying to get all the littles into car seats, perhaps even having to wake infants, transporting, perhaps having to bring everyone into the school for pick ups, trying to get everyone back in the car, etc. and we go
Oh I get you now! No, no, no.... not trying to get infants and toddlers into car seats and all that!! LOL. Mine are 5-10 years. They all buckle themselves. And I don't take them ALL to school. It's just that I'm just not going to let two 5-yr old girls walk to school alone when I have a perfectly good van in my driveway. KWIM? The older ones (3rd, 4th, and 5th graders) walk in the morning, and all five of them walk here after school together. The kinders are younger sibs. One is with the 3rd grader, and one with the 5th grader.

But no, I wouldn't transport if I had lots of tiny ones! You're right!
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