Daycare.com Forum
Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Outright Defiance
mamamanda 10:06 AM 09-04-2015
I have a 3yo dcg who is very sweet at times, but VERY defiant when she doesn't get her way. She wasn't like this until about a month ago. I posted about her once before when I actually ended up sending her home b/c she was so out of control. Mom took her to the Dr & hasn't reported any problems so I don't know what to think/do. She flat out screams at me if I tell her to do something she doesn't want to do. "Please wash hour hands for lunch." "NO!!!" In a screaming voice. I move her to a seat away from peers & tell her disrespect will not be tolerated. Its like this with everything all day. Try to potty before nap. She lays in the floor refusing to budge. I have to pick her up, lead her by the hand, take her to the bathroom & then wait outside the door b/c she will get on the potty & then refuse to get off. She sneaks toys into & out of her cubby. Always wants her stuffed cat & blanket. I put it up since its not nap. She snaeks it out and tries to hide it from me. Takes ds' toys & tries to sneak them home. Refuses to eat unless I meet her demands like adding more milk to her cereal when the bowl I already plenty full. I'm not playing that game so she often skips meals. I feel like I have to fight her on literally every thing all day long. It is taking away from the group & it has to stop. I'm thinking of writing up some kind of behavior plan to give 2 weeks for behavior to change or she can't come back. What kind of plan to write? Is that fair...not fair? How would you handle this? I just don't understand the suddenness of it. She was my best behaved kid before this started.
auntymimi 10:08 AM 09-04-2015
Could she be overtired?
laundrymom 10:20 AM 09-04-2015
That's my guess. She's overtired and wanting attention. You are giving a barking dog a cookie. (Giving her attention when she's acting out) (my own personal belief as to why "gentle parents" sometimes have trouble led behavior from kids. I mean. If the only time mommy talked to me was when she was talking me out of misbehaving, I'd be a terror too)
Anyway. If she's having that much trouble staying on track, I bet she's exhausted. If give her the option of behaving or napping. No battle. Just two choices.
Anyway. If she's having that much trouble staying on track, I bet she's exhausted. If give her the option of behaving or napping. No battle. Just two choices.
Heidi 10:50 AM 09-04-2015
I would first ask the parents if anything has changed at home. The suddenness of her personality change leads me to believe that.
My granddaughter, who is 3 in November, has always been stubborn, but in the last couple weeks (since back from vacation), she's taken it to a whole new level. She doesn't yell at me (much), but otherwise, she does a lot of the same thing your dcg does. Stalls at lunch, stalls in the bathroom, sings loudly at nap, doesn't want to go outside when it's time, doesn't want to come in when it's time, doesn't want to help clean up. Argh!
My granddaughter, who is 3 in November, has always been stubborn, but in the last couple weeks (since back from vacation), she's taken it to a whole new level. She doesn't yell at me (much), but otherwise, she does a lot of the same thing your dcg does. Stalls at lunch, stalls in the bathroom, sings loudly at nap, doesn't want to go outside when it's time, doesn't want to come in when it's time, doesn't want to help clean up. Argh!
Laurel 01:26 PM 09-04-2015
I agree with either tired or something has changed at home.
Whether she is tired or not you could act like that is the problem. Whenever she exhibits bad behavior say something like "Well when you get upset like that it tells me you are tired. You can either do what I ask or go lie down." I'd have a mat right outside the playroom but within sight. Don't engage anymore, just repeat. If she says she isn't tired just say "Do what I said or lie down." Just keep repeating that. If she lies on the floor and won't go potty, I'd just leave her there and not pay attention to her. She'll get tired of lying there especially if it is a hard floor and not carpeting.
When I worked in a preschool this one little girl would go under a table for a long time. We just let her sit under the table. Eventually she came out.
Laurel
Whether she is tired or not you could act like that is the problem. Whenever she exhibits bad behavior say something like "Well when you get upset like that it tells me you are tired. You can either do what I ask or go lie down." I'd have a mat right outside the playroom but within sight. Don't engage anymore, just repeat. If she says she isn't tired just say "Do what I said or lie down." Just keep repeating that. If she lies on the floor and won't go potty, I'd just leave her there and not pay attention to her. She'll get tired of lying there especially if it is a hard floor and not carpeting.
When I worked in a preschool this one little girl would go under a table for a long time. We just let her sit under the table. Eventually she came out.
Laurel
littletots 01:50 PM 09-04-2015
Absolute attention getting behavior appears to be working. She's smart, you gotta be smarter. When children yell, I whisper. I have their attention because they can't hear me. You get the picture. 
mamamanda 08:49 AM 09-09-2015
Okay, so I've tried very hard not to reward or give attention to any of these behaviors, but its not working. Ignoring her when she lays in the middle of the floor is one thing, but now she lays down outside & refuses to come in so if I don't carry her inside I have one group of kids indoors & one kid outside. So I carry her in & let her cry in the calm down spot. And today when she yanked something out of a kids hand & then threw it on the ground i told her to pick it up up & hand it back. She said, "I'll just take a time out" & moved herself to the timeout spot. Since i no longer respond to her fits while in time out she yells my name repeatedly the entire time. I continue to ignore, but oh. My. Word. She I sleeping 12 hours a night & an hour here so I don't think it's sleep related. I am seriously out of ideas aside from telling mom she needs one on one care at tho point in time. Really don't want to do that. Ugh.
rosieteddy 08:57 AM 09-09-2015
I would talkto her when she is quiet.Tell her the plan."you scream,fuss ect I will point to the quiet corner or sleep mat"She needs to go there until she can behave...I woul start a good chart for everyone ,sticker a day if you behave.sticker every day special treat on Friday. Then I would go to the dollerstore ,get stickers and small prizes. I would tell the parents about the chart and ask their support .No good day = no reward.
daycarediva 09:57 AM 09-09-2015
How is her behavior at pick up?
I will be honest, I held on to my defiant, ridiculous tantrum throwing child WAY too long. I just saw her at meet the teacher night (she's in K this year) throwing a massssssive fit on the floor in the middle of the crowded hallway.
She was THE sweetest child, and then she realized she could run the show at home and tried to do it here.
I will be honest, I held on to my defiant, ridiculous tantrum throwing child WAY too long. I just saw her at meet the teacher night (she's in K this year) throwing a massssssive fit on the floor in the middle of the crowded hallway.
She was THE sweetest child, and then she realized she could run the show at home and tried to do it here.
mamamanda 11:00 AM 09-09-2015
She throws a fit, tells mom she's not leaving, whines cries, etc & asks to be carried out. Mom doesn't usually give in & demands that she walk but she does sometimes put her shoes on for her to hurry things along. I feel like mom has started hurrying her out of here now that I've started discussing behavior with her often. She doesn't want to talk about it & if I mention dcg had a bad day mom suddenly I late for an appt, or has other kids in the car, or some other reason she must run. So weird.
daycarediva 11:07 AM 09-09-2015
Originally Posted by mamamanda:
She throws a fit, tells mom she's not leaving, whines cries, etc & asks to be carried out. Mom doesn't usually give in & demands that she walk but she does sometimes put her shoes on for her to hurry things along. I feel like mom has started hurrying her out of here now that I've started discussing behavior with her often. She doesn't want to talk about it & if I mention dcg had a bad day mom suddenly I late for an appt, or has other kids in the car, or some other reason she must run. So weird.
So weird because she sounds like my former dcm who didn't want to do the hard work and phoned it in. Gave in, bribed dcg for everything. Refuses to put on shoes? Leaves candy in the car for her and whispers "If you put your shoes on you can eat candy in the car on the way home!" At one point dcg showed up at my house without a coat or shoes in the middle of winter in nothing but a leotard. She was 4. This was after speaking with dcm about giving dcg choices we could live with about clothes- this outfit or that one, etc. Since she was constantly showing up in weather inappropriate clothing, or refusing to dress to go outside (oh the tantrum in winter when I wouldn't let her wear her bathing suit and flip flops she brought! She throws a fit, tells mom she's not leaving, whines cries, etc & asks to be carried out. Mom doesn't usually give in & demands that she walk but she does sometimes put her shoes on for her to hurry things along. I feel like mom has started hurrying her out of here now that I've started discussing behavior with her often. She doesn't want to talk about it & if I mention dcg had a bad day mom suddenly I late for an appt, or has other kids in the car, or some other reason she must run. So weird.
Keep mentioning it, or schedule a conference and hold her down to discuss it. Work with Mom for a plan of action when dcg does X Y Z, Give it a timeframe for improvement AT the meeting (2 weeks, 4 weeks, whatever).
mamamanda 11:33 AM 09-09-2015
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
So weird because she sounds like my former dcm who didn't want to do the hard work and phoned it in. Gave in, bribed dcg for everything. Refuses to put on shoes? Leaves candy in the car for her and whispers "If you put your shoes on you can eat candy in the car on the way home!" At one point dcg showed up at my house without a coat or shoes in the middle of winter in nothing but a leotard. She was 4. This was after speaking with dcm about giving dcg choices we could live with about clothes- this outfit or that one, etc. Since she was constantly showing up in weather inappropriate clothing, or refusing to dress to go outside (oh the tantrum in winter when I wouldn't let her wear her bathing suit and flip flops she brought!
Keep mentioning it, or schedule a conference and hold her down to discuss it. Work with Mom for a plan of action when dcg does X Y Z, Give it a timeframe for improvement AT the meeting (2 weeks, 4 weeks, whatever).
Ok, thanks for the advice! Yes, dcg has started coming in pajamas and bringing clothes to change into here. I wouldn't mind b/c my early birds do this and I use the opportunity to teach them self help skills. But this just gives me one more thing to fight her on b/c she doesn't want to take them off (probably why she's still wearing them in the first place) & she doesn't even come until after breakfast.So weird because she sounds like my former dcm who didn't want to do the hard work and phoned it in. Gave in, bribed dcg for everything. Refuses to put on shoes? Leaves candy in the car for her and whispers "If you put your shoes on you can eat candy in the car on the way home!" At one point dcg showed up at my house without a coat or shoes in the middle of winter in nothing but a leotard. She was 4. This was after speaking with dcm about giving dcg choices we could live with about clothes- this outfit or that one, etc. Since she was constantly showing up in weather inappropriate clothing, or refusing to dress to go outside (oh the tantrum in winter when I wouldn't let her wear her bathing suit and flip flops she brought!
Keep mentioning it, or schedule a conference and hold her down to discuss it. Work with Mom for a plan of action when dcg does X Y Z, Give it a timeframe for improvement AT the meeting (2 weeks, 4 weeks, whatever).
mamamanda 11:34 AM 09-09-2015
Originally Posted by Heidi:
I would first ask the parents if anything has changed at home. The suddenness of her personality change leads me to believe that.
My granddaughter, who is 3 in November, has always been stubborn, but in the last couple weeks (since back from vacation), she's taken it to a whole new level. She doesn't yell at me (much), but otherwise, she does a lot of the same thing your dcg does. Stalls at lunch, stalls in the bathroom, sings loudly at nap, doesn't want to go outside when it's time, doesn't want to come in when it's time, doesn't want to help clean up. Argh!
Mom swears nothing has changed. Seems like something must have. Good luck with your granddaughter!I would first ask the parents if anything has changed at home. The suddenness of her personality change leads me to believe that.
My granddaughter, who is 3 in November, has always been stubborn, but in the last couple weeks (since back from vacation), she's taken it to a whole new level. She doesn't yell at me (much), but otherwise, she does a lot of the same thing your dcg does. Stalls at lunch, stalls in the bathroom, sings loudly at nap, doesn't want to go outside when it's time, doesn't want to come in when it's time, doesn't want to help clean up. Argh!
Laurel 04:32 PM 09-09-2015
Originally Posted by mamamanda:
Okay, so I've tried very hard not to reward or give attention to any of these behaviors, but its not working. Ignoring her when she lays in the middle of the floor is one thing, but now she lays down outside & refuses to come in so if I don't carry her inside I have one group of kids indoors & one kid outside. So I carry her in & let her cry in the calm down spot. And today when she yanked something out of a kids hand & then threw it on the ground i told her to pick it up up & hand it back. She said, "I'll just take a time out" & moved herself to the timeout spot. Since i no longer respond to her fits while in time out she yells my name repeatedly the entire time. I continue to ignore, but oh. My. Word. She I sleeping 12 hours a night & an hour here so I don't think it's sleep related. I am seriously out of ideas aside from telling mom she needs one on one care at tho point in time. Really don't want to do that. Ugh.
If she won't come inside I'd tell her that she will be sitting by you or on a time out chair outside the next time we come out because she won't come in. Then do something really fun and special and let her sit and watch.Okay, so I've tried very hard not to reward or give attention to any of these behaviors, but its not working. Ignoring her when she lays in the middle of the floor is one thing, but now she lays down outside & refuses to come in so if I don't carry her inside I have one group of kids indoors & one kid outside. So I carry her in & let her cry in the calm down spot. And today when she yanked something out of a kids hand & then threw it on the ground i told her to pick it up up & hand it back. She said, "I'll just take a time out" & moved herself to the timeout spot. Since i no longer respond to her fits while in time out she yells my name repeatedly the entire time. I continue to ignore, but oh. My. Word. She I sleeping 12 hours a night & an hour here so I don't think it's sleep related. I am seriously out of ideas aside from telling mom she needs one on one care at tho point in time. Really don't want to do that. Ugh.
She wouldn't get the option of taking a time out. She doesn't decide the punishment you do. I would probably pick out one toy for her to play with and sit her at a table on on a little towel on the floor and tell her when she picks the toy up then she may play as usual. Otherwise, you will choose her toy (when you feel like it) and she can stay where she is. The little snot....
Laurel
jgcp 04:56 PM 09-09-2015
That is super hard to deal with, at least she goes home Sounds like my own son. He will be 3 on sep 23 and i swear im at my wits end. the ONLY change is we have a new younger dcb (18 mon) I think i have tried absolutly everything.. earlier bed time, time out away from everyone, soap in mouth, taking toys away, and yes even bribbing him!!
But its the same every. single. day. I have a really great group of kids, but he ruins everyones day
It makes me wonder why im even doing this still
Sounds like my own son. He will be 3 on sep 23 and i swear im at my wits end. the ONLY change is we have a new younger dcb (18 mon) I think i have tried absolutly everything.. earlier bed time, time out away from everyone, soap in mouth, taking toys away, and yes even bribbing him!! But its the same every. single. day. I have a really great group of kids, but he ruins everyones day It makes me wonder why im even doing this still
Unregistered 04:57 PM 09-09-2015
Sounds to me like she needs a good old fashioned scolding or reprimand and done so sternly.
Im not taliking about humiliating, physically touching/hurting or intimidating her.
Im talking about speaking in a very authorative manner and TELLING her what she can and can not do. It sounds as if she thinks she runs the show....
Im not taliking about humiliating, physically touching/hurting or intimidating her.
Im talking about speaking in a very authorative manner and TELLING her what she can and can not do. It sounds as if she thinks she runs the show....