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TwinMama 01:59 PM 04-29-2019
So it seems like one set of my parents is never honest with me. The most recent incident is how their baby is a terrible sleeper. Mom JUST revealed that he takes 3 30 minute naps at home when he's there on the weekends. Here I had finally got him to stay on schedule with the other kids. Now I'm back to square one. I told them to keep me in the loop on what they do at home. They of course don't.

Mom and Dad both swear up and down that he sleeps on his back. His brother however literally showed me how he sleeps and he said he sleeps on his belly.

How long before it takes you to get a 9 month old back on track. Monday's are the most difficult, because I feel like I have to retrain this baby.
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Blackcat31 03:06 PM 04-29-2019
Originally Posted by TwinMama:
So it seems like one set of my parents is never honest with me. The most recent incident is how their baby is a terrible sleeper. Mom JUST revealed that he takes 3 30 minute naps at home when he's there on the weekends. Here I had finally got him to stay on schedule with the other kids. Now I'm back to square one. I told them to keep me in the loop on what they do at home. They of course don't.

Mom and Dad both swear up and down that he sleeps on his back. His brother however literally showed me how he sleeps and he said he sleeps on his belly.

How long before it takes you to get a 9 month old back on track. Monday's are the most difficult, because I feel like I have to retrain this baby.
Does he roll over?

If so, you can't make him stay on his back.
You can only place him on his back for nap but there's no guarantee he'll stay that way which IIRC, is perfectly acceptable within eye sight.
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TwinMama 10:02 PM 04-29-2019
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Does he roll over?

If so, you can't make him stay on his back.
You can only place him on his back for nap but there's no guarantee he'll stay that way which IIRC, is perfectly acceptable within eye sight.
No he doesn't. He doesn't do anything. He hasn't even attempted crawling. Nothing.
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Cat Herder 07:36 AM 04-30-2019
If this child can't roll over at 9 months, you have much bigger problems.

Have you completed ASQ's? Is this a developmental problem or a confinement equipment problem?

How much time does this child spend on the floor with toys? It should be the majority of the day. Every day.
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Ariana 08:11 AM 04-30-2019
Lack of sleep is likely contributing to his slow development. I had a 12 month old that was similar, came here barely able to crawl and a month later after parents ironed out her sleep she is self feeding, pulling to a stand and cruising...she just started crawling upstairs this week!

I would tell the parents to sleep train and if sleeping does not improve the development then require an evaluation. Sleep is the most important thing for a child. I have had kids in the past with terrible sleep schedules at home and every Monday I would need to sleep train them, by Wednesday they were perfect, then I had to do it all over again the following week. None of these kids were developing typically.
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TwinMama 01:21 PM 04-30-2019
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
If this child can't roll over at 9 months, you have much bigger problems.

Have you completed ASQ's? Is this a developmental problem or a confinement equipment problem?

How much time does this child spend on the floor with toys? It should be the majority of the day. Every day.
This is a "parents don't really want to take the time to be parents". From day one baby cries Mom wears him or puts him in bed with them. She hasn't herself even fed him in I can't tell you how long. She brings him to me in the morning when he screams because it takes too long and is annoying to feed him she says. I feed him here and Dad does it at home. I can tell when baby wakes up by how early she brings him.

I'm actually the person that initiated him playing on the floor with toys. Dad came and picked him up and said..."Do you really just let him sit and play like that?"

I told them multiple times that he needed to be put in a regular bed or pack and play. They kept him in a bassinet even when his legs were hanging over the side. Their doctor finally warned them that he would use circulation if they didn't switch.

If it inconveniences them they don't want to do it.
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TwinMama 01:23 PM 04-30-2019
Originally Posted by Ariana:
Lack of sleep is likely contributing to his slow development. I had a 12 month old that was similar, came here barely able to crawl and a month later after parents ironed out her sleep she is self feeding, pulling to a stand and cruising...she just started crawling upstairs this week!

I would tell the parents to sleep train and if sleeping does not improve the development then require an evaluation. Sleep is the most important thing for a child. I have had kids in the past with terrible sleep schedules at home and every Monday I would need to sleep train them, by Wednesday they were perfect, then I had to do it all over again the following week. None of these kids were developing typically.
How long did the kids you sleep trained cry for? This kid will literally scream for 2 hours if I let him. I'm going to have to term them if this keeps happening every day.
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Blackcat31 01:26 PM 04-30-2019
Originally Posted by TwinMama:

If it inconveniences them they don't want to do it.
...then why do you?
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Blackcat31 01:28 PM 04-30-2019
I don't mean that (above) rudely I am just curious why you allow them to push parenting off onto you?

If I were a nanny and being paid well for it, I'd consider it but as a group care provider I would never allow that.

Infants MUST be fed within an hour PRIOR to drop off and no way would I be okay with a baby that is developmentally behind due to parental behavior. That's unfair to baby and to you. Poor little dude.
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TwinMama 01:41 PM 04-30-2019
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I don't mean that (above) rudely I am just curious why you allow them to push parenting off onto you?

If I were a nanny and being paid well for it, I'd consider it but as a group care provider I would never allow that.

Infants MUST be fed within an hour PRIOR to drop off and no way would I be okay with a baby that is developmentally behind due to parental behavior. That's unfair to baby and to you. Poor little dude.
I agree with you 100%.

My husband even says that I take it too personally and that I can't change the world. I guess I don't know how to approach it.

I messaged both parents and asked if he's still sleeping in his crib like we had discussed, because he's back to screaming his head off when I put him down. Mom said yes. She thinks he's screaming his head off because he had a cold that he doesn't have anymore.

I know their lying, but I can't call them liars. I want to so badly.
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Blackcat31 02:53 PM 04-30-2019
Originally Posted by TwinMama:
I agree with you 100%.

My husband even says that I take it too personally and that I can't change the world. I guess I don't know how to approach it.

I messaged both parents and asked if he's still sleeping in his crib like we had discussed, because he's back to screaming his head off when I put him down. Mom said yes. She thinks he's screaming his head off because he had a cold that he doesn't have anymore.

I know their lying, but I can't call them liars. I want to so badly.
Yeah, I can see how calling them liars wouldn't be very nice but you can give the issue back to the parents.

Set up a plan for sleep training. Let mom/dad know he MUST be able to sleep on his own on his back by X date.

If you don't see improvement by that date, I'd consider letting him go.

If he screams his head off and disrupts others during rest time, I'd set a time limit there too. I call for pick up any time an infant cries continuously for 90 minutes. I simply will not allow them to be that distressed (and upset others) because my routine is different than what home life is like.

As for dropping off a hungry baby.... straight up tell them going forward he must be fed a full breakfast NO MORE than 30 minutes prior to arrival as you are no longer will or able to accept a starving child into care. This falls under "ready to participate as normal" in daily activities.

My state requires me to hold all children under 12 months when bottle feeding and I am unable to do that during morning drop offs with multiple families therefore I require ALL infants (under 12 months) to be fed prior to drop off.
If your state has the same/similar regulations I'd use that as a reason why you are no longer willing to accept him hungry.
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TwinMama 01:04 PM 05-03-2019
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Yeah, I can see how calling them liars wouldn't be very nice but you can give the issue back to the parents.

Set up a plan for sleep training. Let mom/dad know he MUST be able to sleep on his own on his back by X date.

If you don't see improvement by that date, I'd consider letting him go.

If he screams his head off and disrupts others during rest time, I'd set a time limit there too. I call for pick up any time an infant cries continuously for 90 minutes. I simply will not allow them to be that distressed (and upset others) because my routine is different than what home life is like.

As for dropping off a hungry baby.... straight up tell them going forward he must be fed a full breakfast NO MORE than 30 minutes prior to arrival as you are no longer will or able to accept a starving child into care. This falls under "ready to participate as normal" in daily activities.

My state requires me to hold all children under 12 months when bottle feeding and I am unable to do that during morning drop offs with multiple families therefore I require ALL infants (under 12 months) to be fed prior to drop off.
If your state has the same/similar regulations I'd use that as a reason why you are no longer willing to accept him hungry.
One more question....a what would you do question....

I finally got little boy to sleep longer. Just in the morning though. Not in the afternoon. Would you ever consider 1 nap for a 10 month old?

If that doesn't work I'm just going to let him go.
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Blackcat31 01:40 PM 05-03-2019
Originally Posted by TwinMama:
One more question....a what would you do question....

I finally got little boy to sleep longer. Just in the morning though. Not in the afternoon. Would you ever consider 1 nap for a 10 month old?

If that doesn't work I'm just going to let him go.
Yes, by the time they are 10 months I am aiming for that one nap a day routine. By 12 months they are used to a full afternoon nap (2-2.5 hours) with everyone else.

There are exceptions Ive made are for the kiddos that are here LOOOONG days...sometimes those ones do take a quick morning snooze but no longer than 30 minutes....because I still expect them to nap at regular nap time with the rest of the kiddos.

Hoping that helps. If not, don't be afraid to let him go. SOMEONE else's kid shouldn't be this much stress for you.
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Ariana 07:14 PM 05-03-2019
I agree with everything BC is saying. I have had one baby cry for over an hour but he was here only 2 days a week and with grandma the rest. She was rocking him and putting him down whenever she felt like it. He was only with me for a few months as the parents were moving so I tuffed it out. Otherwise I would have told them that he goes with me full time or term. I was able to sleep train their other child but only because she was with me every day for naps and I would have to to retrain her every Monday.

I always suggest the book The Sleep Easy Solution to parents. It is an amazing book and I used it with my own kids.
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TwinMama 04:45 PM 05-06-2019
So...baby slept 25 minutes then started to scream his head off. I mean screamed. I was trying to comfort him and when I came back out babies older brother was yelling "Honey" dancing with his shirt up over his head coaxing my kids to do it.

This was after he earlier was talking about penises.

I called Dad to come and pick them up. He asked why, and I said that if you can't hear it the baby is screaming his head off.

He came in took the baby and asked why the older boy was getting the boot too. I told him. He looks at boy and said "you were dancing during quiet time?"

I said," With his shirt up over his head which is completely inappropriate. This is not happening."

He looks at me and says "Ok, we'll take the night."

Then he leaves and tells the boy that he's ok. It's not a problem.

I'm sure somehow to them something will be my fault. He even texted me and asked when baby ate last. Which I replied an hour and a half ago.

Maybe I overreacted, but I don't think I did.
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Blackcat31 07:26 PM 05-06-2019
Originally Posted by TwinMama:
So...baby slept 25 minutes then started to scream his head off. I mean screamed. I was trying to comfort him and when I came back out babies older brother was yelling "Honey" dancing with his shirt up over his head coaxing my kids to do it.

This was after he earlier was talking about penises.

I called Dad to come and pick them up. He asked why, and I said that if you can't hear it the baby is screaming his head off.

He came in took the baby and asked why the older boy was getting the boot too. I told him. He looks at boy and said "you were dancing during quiet time?"

I said," With his shirt up over his head which is completely inappropriate. This is not happening."

He looks at me and says "Ok, we'll take the night."

Then he leaves and tells the boy that he's ok. It's not a problem.

I'm sure somehow to them something will be my fault. He even texted me and asked when baby ate last. Which I replied an hour and a half ago.

Maybe I overreacted, but I don't think I did.
you did NOT over react

Parents can not create behavior issues and then expect others to deal with them
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TwinMama 08:17 PM 05-06-2019
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
you did NOT over react

Parents can not create behavior issues and then expect others to deal with them
Thank you! I started feeling like I jumped the gun.

So I just spoke with Mom on the phone about the day. She admitted that she puts him in bed with them. So they have been lying to me. Which I already knew. She then started to talk like she would take the kids elsewhere. I told her that if she thought they would thrive or do better somewhere else that she should. Then she started backtracking whenI called her bluff. It was then that she was able to communicate with me in a courteous manner.
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TwinMama 06:26 PM 05-08-2019
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
you did NOT over react

Parents can not create behavior issues and then expect others to deal with them
Yesterday parents took dcb to their backup center for the first time. Baby was not happy all day. They called Mom at work during one of his episodes, and when Dad picked him up the providers and manager of the center told him that he could've been the only baby at the center getting everyone's attention and it wouldn't have mattered. He just wasn't happy.

Mom and Dad showed up here this morning apologizing. Dad said how much they love me and appreciate me. He even confessed that he didn't believe me all the times before when I was talking to him and told him how dcb was. He was paranoid because he knows how difficult they can be so he was worried that I was looking for a way to term them. When I was really just asking for help. He said that when dcb wakes up upset after his 20 minute nap at home that he blows a blow dryer in his face to change his mood. (Which I would never do)

He also apologized for the siblings behavior and said that he understands that he acts inappropriately a lot of the time, and that he expects him to use his manners and be disciplined. He also said that he had privileges at home taken away for the night for acting out.

I had spoken to one of my veteran daycare friends. She had a situation similar to this child. She ended up literally rolling the child in a blanket like a burrito with the legs free so that just the arms are secure. She had to do it for the child until they were more than one years old. I tried it. Total sleep time between the 2 naps was 2 hours and 45 minutes.

He was the most fun he's ever been here. It was awesome! Hopefully that's what he needed.
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Blackcat31 08:08 AM 05-09-2019
Originally Posted by TwinMama:
Yesterday parents took dcb to their backup center for the first time. Baby was not happy all day. They called Mom at work during one of his episodes, and when Dad picked him up the providers and manager of the center told him that he could've been the only baby at the center getting everyone's attention and it wouldn't have mattered. He just wasn't happy.

Mom and Dad showed up here this morning apologizing. Dad said how much they love me and appreciate me. He even confessed that he didn't believe me all the times before when I was talking to him and told him how dcb was. He was paranoid because he knows how difficult they can be so he was worried that I was looking for a way to term them. When I was really just asking for help. He said that when dcb wakes up upset after his 20 minute nap at home that he blows a blow dryer in his face to change his mood. (Which I would never do)

He also apologized for the siblings behavior and said that he understands that he acts inappropriately a lot of the time, and that he expects him to use his manners and be disciplined. He also said that he had privileges at home taken away for the night for acting out.

I had spoken to one of my veteran daycare friends. She had a situation similar to this child. She ended up literally rolling the child in a blanket like a burrito with the legs free so that just the arms are secure. She had to do it for the child until they were more than one years old. I tried it. Total sleep time between the 2 naps was 2 hours and 45 minutes.

He was the most fun he's ever been here. It was awesome! Hopefully that's what he needed.
Some kids are just tough. That's ok.

It's just not okay when parents are blind (truly and intentionally) to it and simply expect you to deal with it.

I am glad this family got a dose of reality and are now seeing how valuable you truly are to them because you are willing to work WITH them. I would not let that point go.

Make sure they understand you will work WITH them but they need to be the driving force and do most the work. You are a supporting player. NOT the director or the lead. Don't let them make you more responsible for fixing him than they are.

Make a plan of action because even though they are seeing the light now, the glow will wear off and more than likely they'll easily slip back into their old ways and start doing easy because they just need to make it until morning when they can drop off to you.

Set up a plan for what you will/won't do and at what point you will call for pick up when it gets to be too much for everyone in care (including you). Make the parents stick to it....if you notice they are slipping, call them out on it.

When these kinds of situations (where parents see the light) and the tough kid actually gets enjoyable it IS rewarding and fun!

Perhaps this little guy needs a weighted blanket at home?
I know we can't do that in child care since we can't have any blankets or swaddling but the parents can try it at home (if used properly) as he may have sensory needs that are stopping him from getting that deep sleep he needs to be happy during the day.

Glad to hear that you are all making progress though!!
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Ariana 08:13 AM 05-09-2019
Wow blows a hairdryer in his face??? What an awesome parent
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Firefly 08:27 AM 05-09-2019
Originally Posted by Ariana:
Wow blows a hairdryer in his face??? What an awesome parent
Thatís what I was thinking! Iíve never heard that one before. I hope this works out for you. Iím glad they are starting to appreciate you.
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Tags:developmental delay, developmental milestones, developmentally appropriate practice, sleeping positions
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