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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Behaving Inappropriately--HELP!
Unregistered 11:38 AM 02-05-2014
Hi, I am logging in as unregistered to maintain a little privacy for a delicate situation.

I have dcg7 who touches inappropriately. As far as I know, it has just been butt grabbing, but I'm very concerned about the behavior. It's not like she 's a curious 3-yr old; she's 7. Talks with dcm show concern but not enough initiative. "I don't know where it's coming from, it's from riding the bus, blah blah blah..." I could really use advice on how to address this. I told dcm that if dcg does it again she won't be able to come for a while. Does anybody have a policy on addressing something like this?

I was thinking of saying something like if she did it again then she's not here for a week. She's touching butts so if she touches a front then she's terminated. (After all, she's 7 and is old enough to know better.) I just don't want it to get that far. I also have dcb2 and dcg4 in my care as well as 2 of my own children (and 1 on the way). My oldest child is on the autism spectrum and has difficulty communicating so my ears and eyes are always open when dcg is here. My mil helps out if I have somewhere to be and now I'm refusing to allow dcg to come when I am not here. What should I do?
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Blackcat31 11:46 AM 02-05-2014
This is something I wouldn't personally deal with.

She is 7. WAY too old to be behaving that way. TOO much of a liability at that age and NOT nearly enough income to make me want to keep her.

Mom's lame excuses as to where she picked up the behavior... who cares where she learned it, she IS doing it. PERIOD.

That makes it HER problem to fix.

I would suspend for whatever amount of time the first time it happened and term the second time. NO WAY would I risk my business and/or other families for a 7 yr old that knows better or for a DCM that needs to addressed IMMEDIATLEY without excuses.
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Heidi 11:50 AM 02-05-2014
I'd sit dcg down for a serious talk. Private areas are to remain private. Now, she can either remember this, or you will be calling mom to pick her up if it EVER happens again.

Same thing the school would do, right?
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daycarediva 11:52 AM 02-05-2014
I would separate immediately and send home the first time, then terminate immediately the second time. NO way, no how would I keep a child doing that.
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Unregistered 11:54 AM 02-05-2014
Dcg has only been here for 1 month and this is the second incident. First incident was my youngest son and yesterday it was both of sons at the same time.
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Annalee 11:54 AM 02-05-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Hi, I am logging in as unregistered to maintain a little privacy for a delicate situation.

I have dcg7 who touches inappropriately. As far as I know, it has just been butt grabbing, but I'm very concerned about the behavior. It's not like she 's a curious 3-yr old; she's 7. Talks with dcm show concern but not enough initiative. "I don't know where it's coming from, it's from riding the bus, blah blah blah..." I could really use advice on how to address this. I told dcm that if dcg does it again she won't be able to come for a while. Does anybody have a policy on addressing something like this?

I was thinking of saying something like if she did it again then she's not here for a week. She's touching butts so if she touches a front then she's terminated. (After all, she's 7 and is old enough to know better.) I just don't want it to get that far. I also have dcb2 and dcg4 in my care as well as 2 of my own children (and 1 on the way). My oldest child is on the autism spectrum and has difficulty communicating so my ears and eyes are always open when dcg is here. My mil helps out if I have somewhere to be and now I'm refusing to allow dcg to come when I am not here. What should I do?
I would worry about other children going home and telling what she is doing. That would sound really bad coming from a child while sitting at the dinner table in the evening. That would be a term issue for me especially if the mom didn't understand the seriousness of the issue. Good luck!
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Blackcat31 11:56 AM 02-05-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Dcg has only been here for 1 month and this is the second incident. First incident was my youngest son and yesterday it was both of sons at the same time.
That is an awfully short amount of time to be that much trouble already....

I'd be afraid of what others are saying too.

Again, I would term. TOO much trouble. Wonder if she was termed from a previous care arrangement for the same issues...
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Babyluver21 12:01 PM 02-05-2014
SEVEN?

She's in school and schools would suspend for repeated inappropriate behavior. Let her know you'll be doing the same! She's lucky the school either hasn't noticed or hasn't suspended the kid yet
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Heidi 12:23 PM 02-05-2014
You know, I can just see how this could be one of those "things people think are funny gone wrong" situations.

Mom and dad are goofing around, dad grabs mom's rear or mom grabs dad's rear (hey, I've done it...I also "pants" my dh from time to time). Everyone laughs, kid sees it, and she does it to another kid.

Now that I think about it, I would be having that talk with MOM, and make sure she understands that this is serious. SHE needs to sit down with dcg and tell her when it's ok (at home, ha ha) and when it's not (at school, church, daycare, etc...no haha).

I think it's important NOT to make this into a sexual thing. Our all or nothing, "zero tolerance" stuff gets a little crazy sometimes. That doesn't mean it's ok, and it has to be made clear, but it also doesn't mean the child is weird or abused or should be shamed. It's just NOT allowed at daycare. Kids do learn that rules are not the same everywhere.
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Blackcat31 01:28 PM 02-05-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
You know, I can just see how this could be one of those "things people think are funny gone wrong" situations.

Mom and dad are goofing around, dad grabs mom's rear or mom grabs dad's rear (hey, I've done it...I also "pants" my dh from time to time). Everyone laughs, kid sees it, and she does it to another kid.

Now that I think about it, I would be having that talk with MOM, and make sure she understands that this is serious. SHE needs to sit down with dcg and tell her when it's ok (at home, ha ha) and when it's not (at school, church, daycare, etc...no haha).

I think it's important NOT to make this into a sexual thing. Our all or nothing, "zero tolerance" stuff gets a little crazy sometimes. That doesn't mean it's ok, and it has to be made clear, but it also doesn't mean the child is weird or abused or should be shamed. It's just NOT allowed at daycare. Kids do learn that rules are not the same everywhere.
I agree this is something that mom needs to see as SERIOUS, but at 7 I disagree that it isn't sexual.

I've had a similar issue here and by 7 it IS sexual because at that age, they are discovering things about that subject....and KNOW full well what private means. They also know what STOP means and yet she continues...

Like I said before, way TOO much liability. All it takes is ONE child to say something (in or out of context) about it to their parent and the provider is being investigated and possibly put out of business.

My thoughts on this would be completely different if the girl wasn't 7. kwim?
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mountainside13 01:28 PM 02-05-2014
I'm sorry you are going through this! My only advice is to terminate. Your daycare children would tell their parents and you would be the one in fire for it. My daughter came to me yesterday, she is also on the spectrum, saying a little boy touched her privates. The same boy that chocked her a few months ago at school. I'm really upset at the school for lack of supervision since they are aware of these issues and not a first time thing. IMO, Your parents will think the same way, she knew what was going on and it still happened. Good luck Hun!
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cheerfuldom 01:32 PM 02-05-2014
I would terminate. You have already dealt with your own children being touched inappropriately, why in the world would you risk this happening again? I know you are a good mom because you are here asking for help and trying to help this other child but I have to say, use your common sense woman. this child has already had two incidents in one month (that you know of.....) and the mom isn't concerned at all about the behavior. Nothing is going to change by giving this more time.
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Unregistered 01:59 PM 02-05-2014
Here's a little more info:

Dcm stated that previous provider termed due to an "issue." Dcg then stayed with grandmother until grandmother left for Florida right after Christmas. Dcm called old provider for a spot and was told no. Old provider gave her my name. I'm really hoping the "issue" wasn't similar to what I'm dealing with now and the old provider passed this on to me.

Dcg is a very "hands-on" person. Dcm told me that a boy in her class was inappropriate with dcg and they were mad because the school wouldn't handle the issue which makes me wonder how she thinks I should deal with it now that the tables are turned??? She has also humped my couch and humped herself (while standing) at my youngest son. This behavior was blamed on the bus which she had been kicked off of earlier in the school year. There are many other behavior issues, AND IN MY OPINION, I honestly think this child may have ADHD and/or possibly be on the high functioning end of the autism spectrum.

I appreciate the input and will certainly make some decisions. I will not see dcm until Friday so I have a couple days to organize my thoughts.
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spud912 02:25 PM 02-05-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
She has also humped my couch and humped herself (while standing) at my youngest son.
This right here would be grounds for termination. 2 year old exhibiting this behavior? He/she would need work and I would talk to the parents. 7 year old doing it? Completely different story! She knows at that age not to do this behavior.
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Cradle2crayons 07:19 PM 02-05-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Here's a little more info:

Dcm stated that previous provider termed due to an "issue." Dcg then stayed with grandmother until grandmother left for Florida right after Christmas. Dcm called old provider for a spot and was told no. Old provider gave her my name. I'm really hoping the "issue" wasn't similar to what I'm dealing with now and the old provider passed this on to me.

Dcg is a very "hands-on" person. Dcm told me that a boy in her class was inappropriate with dcg and they were mad because the school wouldn't handle the issue which makes me wonder how she thinks I should deal with it now that the tables are turned??? She has also humped my couch and humped herself (while standing) at my youngest son. This behavior was blamed on the bus which she had been kicked off of earlier in the school year. There are many other behavior issues, AND IN MY OPINION, I honestly think this child may have ADHD and/or possibly be on the high functioning end of the autism spectrum.

I appreciate the input and will certainly make some decisions. I will not see dcm until Friday so I have a couple days to organize my thoughts.
I think you have already sort of answered this for yourself.

This is WAYYYYY too much liability. Mom needs to take this VERY VERY serious.

You are correct, it doesn't matter where or how she learned it. She's old enough to know better and mom needs to realize how serious this is.

I would explain to mom the seriousness and liability this is in group care, write up a report to have mom sign that on the NEXT offense, it is grounds for immediate termination of care. If I had to terminate I would call my licensor IMMEDIATELY and report this. This mom needs a wake up call. What happens if mom calls the state and tells them he child learned this here and Dhs and he state shows up at YOUR house. Matter of fact, I would call the licensor first thing tomorrow and give them a heads up ASAP. That is top priority. Then I would type up a conference form with mom and write in that the next offense is an immediate termination. Maybe then mom will take it seriously. If not, you have covered your bootie just in case.
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Unregistered 07:23 PM 02-05-2014
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
I think you have already sort of answered this for yourself.

This is WAYYYYY too much liability. Mom needs to take this VERY VERY serious.

You are correct, it doesn't matter where or how she learned it. She's old enough to know better and mom needs to realize how serious this is.

I would explain to mom the seriousness and liability this is in group care, write up a report to have mom sign that on the NEXT offense, it is grounds for immediate termination of care. If I had to terminate I would call my licensor IMMEDIATELY and report this. This mom needs a wake up call. What happens if mom calls the state and tells them he child learned this here and Dhs and he state shows up at YOUR house. Matter of fact, I would call the licensor first thing tomorrow and give them a heads up ASAP. That is top priority. Then I would type up a conference form with mom and write in that the next offense is an immediate termination. Maybe then mom will take it seriously. If not, you have covered your bootie just in case.

I'm not a registered provider yet so I do not have a licensor.
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Happily_wed 06:45 AM 02-06-2014
So she has really done it three times in a month. I would term now and send her on her way!
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cheerfuldom 07:20 AM 02-06-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I'm not a registered provider yet so I do not have a licensor.
you can document by terminating in writing and creating incident reports for the mom to sign so that you have evidence that she was aware of the problem. do you know the old provider? I would call and document if the old provider said this was an issue there. sounds like it was.

I would not give another chance, just term (after documents are in order)

I would also consider a call to CPS if you believe there is an untreated special needs child that is exhibiting sexualized behavior.....that sounds serious.
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Heidi 09:16 AM 02-06-2014
now that I know the whole story, I agree that it's a liability issue and that the child needs to either termed or diagnosed and a plan needs to be in place, if you can accommodate it.
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Unregistered 07:07 PM 02-07-2014
So I just wanted to give an update on this matter. I took advice and created an agreement basically pushing the parents to acknowledge inappropriate happenings and our discussions. Well dcm and I had heated conversation on phone tonight where she kept saying the behavior was normal and I was policing and targeting dcg. Long story short....I am looking to fill a vacant spot!

I am not sure if I should expect backlash so can anyone give advice on how to prepare for further issues if they arise? Dcm works in court system and I'm trying to get registered. I know I'm not in the wrong but she could really cause problems for me.
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blandino 08:52 PM 02-07-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
So I just wanted to give an update on this matter. I took advice and created an agreement basically pushing the parents to acknowledge inappropriate happenings and our discussions. Well dcm and I had heated conversation on phone tonight where she kept saying the behavior was normal and I was policing and targeting dcg. Long story short....I am looking to fill a vacant spot!

I am not sure if I should expect backlash so can anyone give advice on how to prepare for further issues if they arise? Dcm works in court system and I'm trying to get registered. I know I'm not in the wrong but she could really cause problems for me.
As far as backlash, simply document the situation. Almost anyone in childcare would agree that the situation was a HUGE liability for you.

We had a similar situation where a DCG6 put her hands down her pants and told another DCB5 to "smell this". And several other instances of humping type behavior. The DCM of the boy, told her son to not play with this little girl anymore, and we also spoke with the DCM of the DCG, and she pulled the same "kids will be kids" card. Umm no - this is not child like behavior - it is a actually adult like behavior. Eventually we termed the family over her daughter's behavior. And no longer take school age kids - not just for issues likes this, but instances of inappropriateness sure do diminish without SA kids.

This DCM was also outraged that the other DCM would tell her child not to play with her daughter. She actually wrote a letter and said "How dare you take this out on a child ?", you mean let the child experience the consequences of their actions - WHAT A CRAZY IDEA !?!?
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Unregistered 01:07 PM 02-08-2014
Exactly! Dcm actually told me that 2 counselors told her the behavior was completely normal and she was outraged that I couldn't deal with it. I'm still worked up today over this but this child was a nightmare. I couldn't believe that she stood in my kitchen 2 weeks ago and told me how mad she was when the school wouldn't address the inappropriate behavior that was directed at dcg earlier in the school year. Now it's different because it's you're child that's presenting with this stuff?!?!! The inappropriate behavior was a last straw for me.
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Unregistered 04:40 PM 02-08-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I'm not a registered provider yet so I do not have a licensor.
That does not matter. If another child, including your own, has an issue because of the behavior, then you could'vr been in hot water liability-wise. Even if you don't have a licensor, there is ALWAYS one that works within your area you can get advice from.

I am very glad you termed, though! Good RIDDANCE to that mom and her antics!
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Nebula 03:49 AM 02-10-2014
That behavior is *NOT* normal for a 7 year old. She is old enough to know better, and I would be concerned about possible sexual abuse that may be going on in her life? In my State, that kind of behavior would have to be reported to state.. This child should not be in care if she is going to do that, and it sounds like she needs some serious counseling and behavioral modification therapy.

Sounds like you made the right decision. As far as the possible court "trouble", documentation is your best friend. document everything, because if it wasn't documented- it never happened
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Tags:discipline plan, inappropriate touching, innapropriate behaviour, school age care
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