For those that were helping me write the letter to the mom who has variable I wanted to let you all know she just "doesn't get it"..I don't think she understood my letter at all! All of you saw what I wrote her, was I not clear enough? Do I have to get more bold? I have a extremely appt on Tues at 4..She has not worked till 4 in 3 months..I made the appt late in the afternoon for a reason, and I have already rescheduled it because of her crazy schedule once before! And now after my reading my letter, she has the nerve to tell me her schedule is going to get crazier than ever?? NO WAY! I am not going to be at her beck and call..What do I say now??

This is what she emailed me today:

For this week the times we will be bringing Jack will be...

Tuesday - 12-4
Thursday - 9-2
Friday - 9-2

Once I get my schedule for Lands End for the following week, I will let you know what times. My schedule will fluctuate based on the hours I get at LE. I usually get the schedule for the following week, by the latest, on Thursday of the current week. Now once the lacrosse season practices start, then the schedule will be really crazy all over the place. If we are outside (no snow on the turf) then we will be practicing 5:30-7:30pm and will be letting LE know that I can work during the day on Tues, Thurs, and Fri. We usually can't get outside until March, but depending on how the weather treats us we may be able to get on our set schedule earlier. Until then, I believe I have given you the weeks where I will have morning practice and will need to have you watch Jack every day. If this is a problem because of another child you are taking on, please let me know asap so that I can try and make other arrangements for Mon and Wed.

Let me know if you have any questions or if I'm not following protocol correctly. I just want to make sure that Jack is taken care of on the days that I need to be working.

Reply

Has she agreed to the terms that you put forth in your letter to her? It looks like those days/times this week (except for Tuesday) fit into the terms you set down (I was looking back and forth between the two, lol). I can't tell from the email whether she's expecting you to watch him on those random 5:30-7:30 days.

I guess I don't completely see the problem?

For this Tuesday, I'd be apologetic and explain that you can't watch him until 4 due to a prior engagement (explain that it's an important appt that you can't reschedule).

Reply

Silver, read this thread, and maybe it will make more sense to you:

https://www.daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24573

I hope I did that right..

Reply

Wow, Legomom....it sounds like you are letting her "run the show" with writing you a letter weekly stating her hours. If she is paying the full time rate for five days a week and only comes during some of your open hours, I think you need to just "deal with it" if you need the income. How much do her hours change week to week? Maybe you could alter her rates (so it looks better for her) according to specific time frames that are acceptable to wait for her child to be dropped offed and picked. I would not give her the entire day's time frame for when you're open, but have her choose more set-in hours. Can you call a local center and ask how they would charge according to unusual schedules and adjust your rates accordingly?

Reply

If she wants to pay my FT rate of $175/wk, then I will deal with it, but what she is doing to me right now, I will not deal with it. Her hrs and her days change daily, weekly & monthy! She is driving me nuts! Sometimes she texts me at 1030pm to tell me what time she is coming in the am...

I offered her contracted hrs of m-f from 630am-230pm but of course that does not cover her days that she works until 4..Did you read my letter I wrote to her in another thread? https://www.daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24904 Blackcat called around and centers and the YMCA told her they would have to charge her FT rates too.

I had one idea..so I posted a new CL ad, raising my rates to $44/day, & being available from 7am-2pm and then when she says something to me tomorrow I can tell her I have an ad out & I would contract her for 4 days at my new rate which would be $168 for 4 days vs $175 for 5...

Reply

I just got done reading your other thread and OMG that was long! I would NOT allow her to switch the days. I would have her choose the 3 days as part time and have any hours contracted that fit her needs as long as you have other children present since she is not usually there. Then, you would only provide care the fourth day or fifth day IF you have a drop in spot available and have that be a minimum per hour for so-many hours or else slightly higher than the daily rate if it's all day drop in. I would make her choose specific days of the week and not let her change unless she pays the full time rate for five days. I would not have put up with her crap unless I really couldn't fill my spots. If she chooses the 3 days if that is your minimum, I would not help her with her finding alternate care the other day(s) if she is part time because with any other part time family you would not bother to set up their schedule for them. They can do it themselves and it shouldn't be any of your business or concern.

Reply

See she cant pick 3 days...Nov her days were t, th, fri, and dec were m, th, fri and now this. She even wrote me a schedule with "maybe" written on it, and no times..what would happen if she was contracted for t, w, f, and then the next month she needed m,th, fri, but all I had open was fri? then she would be paying me for 3 days and only using one!

I am thinking I just term her and forget the whole thing...I am so stressed over this whole ordeal, and her email to me cleary tells me her sch is only going to get worse, and I guess I am just going to have to spell it out for her..

"I CANNOT ACCOMODATE YOU ANYMORE UNLESS YOU WANT TO CONTRACT 5 DAYS. IF THIS IS NOT AGREEABLE TO YOU, CONSIDER THIS MY 2 WK NOTICE"

Do you think she would "get it" then?

Reply

I would do this if you can afford it. Not knowing the schedule upfront would make it impossible for me to schedule appts for myself or my 3 kids. No can do for me!

Reply

Legomom, after reading the other thread, I now see her variable hours are due to retail. I would suggest you offer her two options:

1- Discuss with her employer that her availability is changing. She is no longer open to work variable days. Her and her employer can pick 3 days in which to work, and you need to give her a deadline to let you know what those three days are. How do you think college students work retail? They tell their employer what their availability is based on their classes, and the employer works AROUND that. She needs to tell her employer she can no longer work variable days. Easy as pie.

2- If she is not willing to talk with her employer about fixed days, she needs to pay for 5 full days.

Now, if she picks option 1 and wants drop in care for Lacrosse; if it's on one of her contracted days... GREAT! If it's not a contracted day, treat it like a drop in. IF you have a spot, you can accommodate. She needs to find back up care if you are not available.

I wouldn't necessarily terminate over this, you are right... she just doesn't really understand. Sometimes it's hard for a parent to switch hats and see things from our perspective. Give her those options & terminate if she doesn't agree.

Reply

Ow my head...yikes. I would definitely make her contract for all 5 days, within certain hours, and if she needs care outside those hours, then it's on a drop-in basis. She could also just set a schedule for the boy and bring him regular times, every week, regardless of her schedule--it would at least give the kid some stability. I think having a regular schedule is important for a child and this poor kid obviously doesn't have one. If she needs care outside her "normal" schedule for the week, then she can check with you, or have another sitter available, or something.

Reply

She has 2 jobs..The retail one and her coaching job. She works the retail one around her coaching schedule, which is always changing depending on the season, the month, the weather and the sport.

Like for feb she has me for 630-1230 5 days for a wk only because of coaching games in the am..Some days she has games, and then when she is not coaching, she is working retail, so its a double wammy..

Reply

Did she even read the letter you sent her???? She's acting like you never said anything! I would talk to her in person. Make sure she got your letter and understands that she needs to pay the full time rate if she's going to expect every day to be open for her son when she needs it. Obviously something didn't get through, though your letter was very well written and clearly spelled out.
Either she didn't get your letter, didn't read it yet, or is just "playing dumb"-hoping you'll keep accomadating her without charging her more.

Reply

She thought she could just stay on 3 days when I spoke with her this am, BUT she said her hrs would still be all over the place. I told her the problem is the days and times each week change, and I just cannot schedule anyone else in case she needs it. Then she says "well your policy says you are open 630-430" and I am not familiar with "contracted" hrs, as this is a new concept to me, so I didnt know how to answer it, so I said my rate was based "up to" 8 hrs and clients can choose which hrs they want within that time frame, but it doesnt mean you can come 630-430 for the same rate. Then I said I am now only offering care until 230pm m-f and that any new clients coming in are paying a higher rate too. So then she said well I dont know if I can stay anyway then because I need care until 4 on some days. I told her staying until 4 would have to be approved based on my availability and that is something I cannot guarentee if it is going to vary. Is there any other way of explaining "contracted" hrs? At this point I think I just want her gone..

Reply

How can expect a clinet to only have contracted hours till 2:30pm MOST parents work untill 5pm and it takes travel time. I would make her pay fulltime rate Monday threw Friday and give her your REGULAR daycare hours which I think you said are 6:30am to 4:30pm and that way she can use anydays she wants during the week but has to pick up BY 4:30pm. This is the main reason I dont do part time.

Reply

Because 90% of the time she always has picked up before 230, and more times often than not, has dropped off by 630, so I went with her most common hrs. I understand that most parents may work until 5, but we cant forget the ones who have odd shifts like this one. I like the clients with the "out of the norm" shifts as long as they are consistent. I passed up a banker who needed m-f 10-2..if only I knew then what I know now...that would have been a no brainer!

The other issue I have is that I go to physical therepy 2x a week, so I need to go to those appts, and then there are other appts like dentists, drs, the kids, etc, and with her giving me schedules at 1030 at night and such, I have had to break, change & resch more appts in the month of dec alone because of her always changing her hrs. I cant make a appt for 3 wks out at 230, because her schedule could be 12-4 that day and vise versa, so I am trying to pin her down to pick up by 230 anyday

Also, if she used the full 630-430, it would cost her OT fees because she is then going over my 8 hr limit. I dont generally have "traditional" clients. I put out there what days hrs, I am available and see what bites.

Reply

For the hek of it, I called a center this am and they told me they do not honor varying schedules. It's $55/day for 2 days, $51/day for 3-4 days and $220/wk for 5 days, regardless of what or how many hrs a day you use.

I also would be willing to watch him until 4pm IF it was a set day of the week that I could plan around, that wouldnt interfere with my counts. I can only have 2 FT's anyway due to the fact I am not regsitred, so I dont have alot of room for flexability, as someone else who is able to watch 6 kids, but only has 4. That might be a better fit for her. I need to make the most out of what I have.

Reply

Licensed or not, regardless of whether one can have 2 kids or 6, I can't imagine anyone putting up with that schedule and waiting until the last minute sometimes to find out her hours. For all the crap you've been through with her, and with your dh's raise, I would just term her. It sounds like it's getting to be way too stressful and more trouble than it's worth.

Reply

I commented a couple times on your last thread before you gave the mom the letter.

You say you would be fine if it was til 4:30 and you knew about it. I know you said you don't do traditional hours, but from my experience it is just easier to have a full day block they can come. Then you don't have to worry about what they are doing or when they are coming. You open at this time, you close at this time. Easy. If you are open to this (even bump your rate up a little if your original 3 day rate was for 6:30-2:30)

I would simply tell her this:

I feel like there is a misunderstanding, so I'm going to try and be clear. I am offering you 2 options and if neither work, then I will have to let you go.

Option 1.: Choose 3 days per week that you will come. These days CANNOT change from month to month. They MUST stay the same every month because I will be filling the other days with my appointments and another family to care for. You can drop off anytime between 6:30am - 4:30pm. Your rate for these 3 days at 10 hours a day is: $_____ You do not have to come for all 10 hours every day, but your rate will be the same regardless if you do. Overtime charges will apply if you come earlier than 6:30 or stay later than 4:30, regardless of when the child is leaving or got dropped off.

Option 2.: Sign a contract for Full-time M-F care. Your hours will be from ______ to ______ for $ _______ per week. Again, you can come at any time, any day during those hours. Overtime charges will be the same as Option 1.

If neither of these options will work for your family, I am really sorry, but I will no longer be able to provide care for _______.

As other poster said, I would talk to her in person about this as well as give her a letter in writing detailing what options you have for her. Talk to her right then, so you know what she wants to do. Then you can either write up a new contract or a 2 week notice.

It is not that hard to understand, but she's obviously confused. So you need to clearly spell out what options you are giving her and talk to her in person about it. What a headache! I feel for you.

Reply

Daycare mama, I just wanted to clarify a couple of things with you. It's not that I don't "do" traditional hrs, it has just worked out that with most of the clients I have had, they have had non-traditional shifts. I just didn't want you to think I wouldn't do traditional hrs.

I would be fine if she stayed until 4 or even 430, if it was the same day of the week every week that those hrs were needed on.

About option 1, When I spoke to her this am, about the 3 days, I made it very clear to her that the days would have to be the same and she just cannot do that in anyway shape or form because of her 2 jobs, and her job at lands end already work around her other coaching schedule. Personnally, if I were her, I would give up one of those jobs and work at the mall at night when her DH is home or stay home because I cant believe she can be making much anyway to even make this worth it!

With option 2, that is what i had put in her letter and I included a contract that I filled out myself with the hrs and days and rate on it, so great minds think alike!

well just an update:, She came to pick up the baby and didnt say 1 word to me, and when I started to speak, she just shock her head, frowned and ran out my door..I guess she didnt want to hear anything I had to say...so I guess its over..I'm sure she will be telling me to take a hike soon!

I hope she goes home and makes some phone calls...

Is it best that I draw up a temination letter? Or should I let her give me notice?

Reply

I'm sorry I haven't had time to keep up with this situation or comment. I too have a variable hour week-to-week dck. And it's driving me batty. I completely sympathize! My DCM is on state assistance, working retail at minimum wage. She's just completed her 4 paychecks to get a voucher so hopefully that will go quickly and I can get my full rate for all this hassle. Right now she pays my 1/2 day rate and brings food, snacks and milk (purchased with her food stamps) for everyone, not just her kid, to make up the rest. But with the holidays and a huge snow storm it really just became a mess. He's a super easy kid and gets along with my son very well so that's the only reason I decided to take him. It's pretty easy money even if it's not a lot and he's my only nondrop-in. I am having an issue with pickup only because traffic and distance mean it takes her 1.5hrs to get home some days and that's at least an hr past my closing time. Grandma is getting annoyed with daily calls to come get him, but I simply can not keep him until 6:30 when my own kids go to bed at 7.

I like Daycare_Mama's letter. It's very clear and to the point.

Reply

Yep, definitely YOU give her a termination letter asap. That's really strange that she wouldn't even talk to you. When is baby supposed to come next?

I would not let her call any more of the shots. You went out of your way to present a situation that would be okay for both of you and it's not your problem if she wants to act like that about it.

Be done, give her a notice, spend some time with your family, and search a family that won't be so much trouble!

Reply

I ran into a similar situation with my first dck ever. I just dealt with it because it was a referral and my first dck. After a year with them, I offered them the "come and go as you please" offer for my FT rate (even though it was more like 3-4 days, sometimes half, sometimes full days, depending on the schedule from week to week).........or the choose 3 or 4 FIXED days and pay for the day regardless of the number of hours. They chose the "come and go as you please" (of course no way they could have done fixed days) and it has turned out GREAT because they bring him the whole day now which makes the day flow much more smoothly than having him picked up and dropped off in the middle of meals and naptime.

Good luck, and sorry she's having an attitude about it.

Reply

Should I send home the term notice with them tomorrow? When would my 2 wk technically be? 2 wks from yesterday? or 2 wks from tomorrow? Or I can email it to her today based on yesterdays events, and then have it end 2 wks from yesterday?

Reply

I say your termination has to end the day you give them the notice. Basically, if I had problems for a week with a family and then decided to term them, I couldn't say, well your termination started 1 week ago when the problems started, so you have one week left. So, if you want the 2 weeks to start today, email it to her today, but you should still give her a paper copy.

Reply

If you're lucky, she'll not want to bring him the rest of the 2 weeks, but still have to pay you.

Reply

I wish...I think she is stuck with me for now though because she doesnt have any family in the area...

However, I may have doomed myself on this one, because everytime she changed her days every semister, I would have her sign a new contract with her new days. Well her new days started yesterday, and I dont have a new contract with her yet because I didnt know what she was going to decide about the FT position, so I am assuming, that right now I am actually working without a contract for protection..so if she doesnt show tomorrow, wouldnt that mean since her old contract ended I could not enforce the contract?

Normally I would give her a new contract to fill out when she let me know her days were changing, but she let me know on her last day here, Dec 22, before I was off for vacation until Jan 3, so with Christmas and everything, I did not bring up the the new contract because as soon as she gave me the new wacky sch, I kn ew it would not work, so after Christmas is when I sent her my letter, and thats why I dont currently have a contract. Does that make sense?

Reply

After she had sent me that email that I showed you, which left me puzzled, I had written her back and pasted this on here below, so in my mind, I feel I already let her know as of sunday night, that I will watch him 2 more wks, and then I am done. Let me know what you think and how this would be interperted:

As I had explained in my letter, your schedule needs a great deal of flexability, which I can no longer accommodate, unless you wanted to contract 5 days. It is too hard for me to work around with other clients, potential clients, afterschool kids, etc.

After doing some research, and speaking with other providers, I have made a business decision, that I can no longer provide part time care because of the scheduling issues that come from that, and trying to fill the remaining days is difficult, which then means I lose income. As a courtesy to you, I wanted to offer you the FT spot first.

If you are unable to contract 5 days, I will be glad to watch Jack for a couple of more weeks, until other suitable arrangments are made that would be a better fit for your schedule. I of course understand the situation this puts you in, and I hope you understand the difficult position I'm in too.

Let me know if you need more clarification on this.

Reply

Kind of. So does your old contract go through a specific date? If it does have an end date on it, then yes I would say you are not under contract and you could terminate today and have him not come back at all.

But if it doesn't have an end date AND she has not signed a new contract AND you have not given her a dated termination notice, then I think you are still under the old contract.

Reply

No end date, but her hrs/days do not match up at all with what is written on her old contract, and I opened my big mouth in that letter I sent her and told her I was currently providing services without a contract and even if she doesnt go with my offer, I still need a temporary contract...

Reply

I say draw it up today, email it dated 2 weeks from today as term date.
Dear miss bounce around.

While we are currently not bound by contract I am extending a professional courtesy of a two week termination period. The last day I will be available for care is ***xx. As previously stated I am unavailable for care on ***x. Thankyou






Or

Dear miss bounce around.

Because our previous contract no longer is valid and I am unable to accomodate your changing needs, I am terminating childcare services effective immediately.

Reply

I really loved that part!

Ok, heres another question..In my contract, I have when notice is given, the 2 wks must be paid in advance..Did I screw myself out of that too??

I think in any event, I will email her and tell her she needs to pay me for 12/31, yesterday and tomorrow & thurs tomorrow at pick up..or would that insult her? I hate to think the worst of people, especially when they have followed everything else, but when people get angry, they turn kwim?

Reply

Love both of these options. Laundrymom said them perfectly. And LOVE "miss bounce around"

I agree though, it's gotten too confusing. If you want to do care and get paid for the next 2 weeks, email her the 1st one Laundrymom said. If you don't care and just want to be done (which I would be leaning towards), email the 2nd one. Either of those are VERY clear and you will either be watching him for 2 more weeks with pay or you'll be done today. And both options would be okay, if you ask me.

Reply

I would eat any days she was there without contract. Charge for the ones in contract.

Reply

Bottom line, regardless of contract/no contract, I think she should pay for the days he was there. So if she hasn't paid you yet for 12/31 and yesterday, yes you should ask her for payment for those 2 days and then tomorrow if he comes and stays. If he doesn't and you're just done, I would just forget about payment for the next 2 weeks and stop watching him. It's hard to tell since your "contract" is a little screwy with her. So just make her pay for the days he was there and be done.

Reply

I've written this tell me what you think:

I can no longer accommodate your needs, therefore please accept this letter as my 2 week termination notice. Termination will be in effect as of January 18, 2011.

All current and further fees are now due in advance. I am giving you the courtesy where I will accept weekly payments on Mondays at drop off, or no care will be provided. Because your last day of care this week will be Wednesday, payment for:

Dec 31, 2010-Jan 6, 2011 will need to be paid Wednesday January 5 at drop off.
Payment for January 10, 12-13, will be due January 10 at drop off.
Payment for Jan 17 , is due Jan 17, 2011 at drop off.

Thank you for sharing Jack with me and I wish you and your family all the best in the future.

Reply

Good the only thing I would probably change is say "I can no longer accommodate your child care needs. Therefore, please accept this letter as my 2 week termination notice, starting today Jan. 4, 2011. Your last day of care will be Tuesday Jan. 18th, 2011."

Just so it's clear that your 2 week notice is not starting on the 18th..

Reply

Well it's over.. She pulled the plug after I sent her the term notice..An dthen she texted me and said he wont be coming tomorrow either and that she would mail me the $70.

I REALLY now need to know if the old contract covers me or not..maybe I should ask Tom? Because contract states they are responsible for the 2 wks even if their child does not attend..

She emailed me this:

I didn't realize that we were being terminated. I thought that we had some time to consider our options to stay or to find another provider. This is unfortunate, but I guess we will be looking elsewhere.

Also, I don't feel that we owe you for your time on Thursday, since you will not be watching Jack due to your conflict (As stated in your handbook; pg 6). I did pay you for the Monday you did not watch Jack before the Holiday when you had to get your tooth fixed, and that was not my conflict either. Also, we have paid for every day Jack has been there, which would make our payment for the week of Dec 31st to Jan. 6th only $70. I have kept all my records and believe this to be a true reflection of your handbook and payments that have been made.

If we will not be needing you after this week (after tomorrow), I will let you know by the weekend.

We have appreciated your help with Jack and were very happy with the care you gave him. It's unfortunate that we could not make something work. Thank you for your communication.

Reply

I think if she signed a contract period, and has not signed a different one, and you gave her notice, then she DOES owe you for 2 weeks because you are offering care for the next 2 weeks. It's up to her if she doesn't want to bring him; she still has to pay you.

What exactly does that part of your contract say? And what is she referring to on pg. 6?

My contract says, "A 2 week notice on either end is required should the parent or provider decide to terminate care for any reason. Child care will still be provided for 2 weeks from the date of terminiation. Payment is required in full for those 2 weeks whether or not you choose to still bring your child."

Post a new thread about contract issues and see if anyone has specific insight into that.

I don't think it matters if you've changed your days, if she hasn't signed a new contract, she's still bound under the old one, which has the 2 week notice with payment...

If this is the case, I would write her back and point this out to her and make sure you say that you are willing to watch him until the 18th and it's her choice if she chooses not to bring him. She therefore owes you for care, per your contract, for the next 2 weeks.

Reply

BOTTOM LINE:
She emailed YOU with intent to use your program on your terms for the next 2 weeks. She is not new to the contract. If you have an infallible 2 week deposit clause in your contract (Which you should be able to provide proof of her signing in the past) then she owes you pay for those 2 weeks, after term was given, regardless of if she uses it.

Reality check- You could try to offer her a 'deal' so you can see some money, and to avoid court. You could try to sue, but I've often had much better luck trying to settle. If she still doesn't pay and you do end up in court after a discounted offer, you do not need to honor it- you can sue for the full amount plus arrears if you have it set up to collect that way.

Reply

This is what pg 6 says: Notice it does not say I will waive the daily fee. Let me know how you interpret this:

Appointments
From time to time I will need to be at appointments (Dental, Medical, etc) For some very basic appointments, I can take children with me, but most appointments I cannot. I will give you advance notice whenever possible of these appointments. Please have back up care for these days. You have the choice of either dropping off/picking up earlier or later (full fees will be due) by yourself or an authorized person, or taking your child to your back up provider. If because of my appointment, you do need to drop off earlier or pick up later, I will waive the early/late fee.

Reply

You have the choice of either dropping off/picking up earlier or later (full fees will be due) by yourself or an authorized person, or taking your child to your back up provider.

because it doesn't say (full fees will be due) AFTER you say "or taking your child to your back up provider." I think she may be able to get out of paying.

I'd look at it this way. You, unfortunately, had to inconvenience her more than once, at the last minute, for unexpected appointments. I realize you HAD to go, but I can also see it as a huge inconvenience for the parent. She seems as though she is being gracious in her response to you, and also seems genuinely sincere in that she wasn't expecting to be termed, and probably didn't plan on leaving you anyway. I'd accept her $70 and call it a wash.

She said some nice things in her response to you.

Reply

I must have missed something. I thought I was following this thread carefully, but how did it go from you giving her a chance to decide whether they want to pay full time or not to you terming her? It almost sounds, from what she emailed you, is that they were leaning toward taking the full time spot...?

Reply

I see what you are saying, and maybe I either should have put that full fees will be due in again after that other sentence as well, or just put it in once after the paragraph. I guess in my mind, I knew what I was thinking, because I was thinking it as pick up later/earlier OR use a back up provider and full fees will still be due.

I also wanted to comment about the inconveinance I caused her. it was actually because of her constant changing her hrs, that this happened anyway. Like for example, the appt I have on Thurs at 4 was rescheduled from a different date and time because she changed her schedule at the last minute. Sometimes I get texts from her at 1030pm for the next day. And I had made this appt at 4pm, because for the last 2 months, she has picked up no later than 2pm.

And the other dentist appt that she was referring to when my tooth broke, was on a monday when she was suppose to be here from 630am-1130am, but she texted me that sunday night and told me she would be coming from 11-2:30 instead, so my 1:30 appt caused her inconveinance, because when I called the dentist first thing on monday morning to see if I could get a earlier appt instead, there were none available, so I had to keep the 130 appt and because she wouldnt or couldnt reschedule her hrs, she didnt bring him, and then blamed me..

She had told me on Mon, those hrs would not work for her, and if I would watch him for 2 wks, and said yes, so I seriously doubt she was going to use me anyway, as I know there is no way she ever could have stuck with those hrs because of her coaching schedule . I think she is just trying to make me feel guilty now...

Reply

For those interested, Tom Copeland answered my contract question on the tax board. Ck it out if you are interested, I dont know if I can paste his reply here.

Thank you all very much for all of your help and suggestions during all my drama! It has been very stressful for me! Hugs to all!

Now I just have to get her to pay.....

Reply

I don't think Tom knows the whole story.

The old contract may be valid, BUT, if the provider breeched the contract, by changing her closing hours to 2:30 instead of 4:30 without advance notice, making it impossible for the parent to use care because she works until 4:00 on some days, is the contract still valid?

I think you need to clarify this with Tom. I find it hard to believe that you can press the matter when YOU changed the contract, verbally, when you told the parent you would no longer care for her child after 2:30 because you MAY need to make doctor's appointments.

Reply

First of all I didn't change my closing hours. She changed her schedule which made it impossible for me to work around weather it was appointments, or other clients. i offered her "specific contracted hrs" of 630am-230pm m-f which fell in between my operating hours, based on her most common needs for care, which for the last semister, pick up was usually anywhere between 1130-2, and drop off was anywhere from 630-9am.

I didn't change the contract. She changed her schedule and when ever she would change her schedule, i would draw up a new contract. This time, I did not agree with her changes, so a new contract was not drawn up. A new contract would have drwn up IF she had accepted my offer letter.

Bottom line is I need a client who has consistent hrs, and is not going to tell me 8 hrs in advance that there times has changed ...again.

Reply

Maybe I am misunderstanding this post:

She thought she could just stay on 3 days when I spoke with her this am, BUT she said her hrs would still be all over the place. I told her the problem is the days and times each week change, and I just cannot schedule anyone else in case she needs it. Then she says "well your policy says you are open 630-430" and I am not familiar with "contracted" hrs, as this is a new concept to me, so I didnt know how to answer it, so I said my rate was based "up to" 8 hrs and clients can choose which hrs they want within that time frame, but it doesnt mean you can come 630-430 for the same rate. Then I said I am now only offering care until 230pm m-f and that any new clients coming in are paying a higher rate too. So then she said well I dont know if I can stay anyway then because I need care until 4 on some days. I told her staying until 4 would have to be approved based on my availability and that is something I cannot guarentee if it is going to vary. Is there any other way of explaining "contracted" hrs? At this point I think I just want her gone

It sounds like she was originally contracted for variable hours, based on her schedule, and some of those days pick up would be as late as 4:30. YOU then told her that YOU were changing those hours to the latest pick up being 2:30 because you have other things to attend to and cannot count on her hours being the same, so you were setting it to where YOU would not be inconvenienced by HER changing schedule, that YOU agree to work with in the first place. So, if that is right, you did change the contract, verbally and breeched the original contract.

If I am misunderstanding, my apologies, but that is what it sounds like to me.

Reply

I think the 6:30-4:30 hours were her "open" hours, but the family had 8 hours per day contracted, so the baby could only be there til 2:30. She didn't change her hours on the family; this woman kept changing her schedule around on the provider.

But anyways, I get what you meant on pg. 6, but I agree with pp that it sounds like you are giving the option to come and pay full fees OR bring child to back-up caregiver and not have to pay for the fee on that day. So, I would just not worry about charging for that appointment day because of the wording in your contract was a little hard to understand what you meant.

As far as the remaining 2 weeks, I think she does owe you that and it just depends on how much you want to "fight" with this family to get it.

This whole thing has been confusing for both you and the family, so it might just be easier like the other person said to get the $70 and call it a day.

I do agree that you are owed for the 2 weeks, but it may not be worth it to try to get it. If you do want to, just explain to her that she signed a contract and has not signed a new contract that is any different, so she owes (per the contract) for the 2 weeks following Jan. 4th. 2011.

Reply

Crystal, Originally, when she first came, she had contracted for Sept & Oct: Tues & Thurs 630-2, Fri 1130-4 . Then for Nov & Dec, went to Mon 645-3, Thurs 730-3, Fri 11-4. Now on paper this looks ok, and it's doable, however, the scehule NEVER stayed like this. It was all over the place and she would text me alot at night to tell me hrs for the next day. There was not 1 time since Oct 16, that she ever picked up after 2.

I had only agreed to variable schedule as stated above, with set times on set days. I didnt care that the times on Tuesdays were different from Fridays. She would tell me on a Tues that she would be picking up at 1230 on fri, and then thursday night I would get a text at 9pm that would say she is picking up at 2 instead, which then would cause a conflict if I had already scheduled a appt for 130, so then I would have to reschedule my appt to accomodate her change in hrs. I had physical therepy appts scheduled early at 730am on Fridays, and she would text me on Thursdays telling me she is dropping off at 630 instead of 9..It was INSANE. I rescheduled each appt I had to meet her changing hrs at a moments notice.

I wish I could scan this blank calendar she left me, so you could see it yourself, but January her hrs and days changed again, and again for Feb, etc. She didn't even know times, and on alot of days she didnt even know if she needed me or not, and just put like a question mark on that day, and no 2 wks were the same..It was totaly unacceptable to me and would give anyone a headache just looking at it.

I just dont understand where you think I changed the contract on her. I offered a new contract for hrs within my operating hrs on a new set schedule,(which would mean I am now only offering care to her from 630-230 only) AFTER she gave me her new schedule, which would have required a new contract anyway because she switched her days also. So can you be more specific by what you mean? I really want to understand.

I could see your point if I decided to change her hrs while we still working with her old schedule from Nov & Dec, but that schedule no longer existed anyway.

Reply

Honestly, I think you are out of line here. You allowed this to go on for months, were annoyed at this clients for that time, and never COMMUNICATED to the client that this was a problem. With her new schedule change, you are more annoyed than ever over something she has NO IDEA about and are going from one day "working it out" to handing her notice the next.

If I were her, I would likely pull my kid and never look back. I would welcome the opportunity to take me to small claims bc your contract is no longer valid and you have been unreliable in providing care. If I were you, I wouldn't expect 2 weeks pay, bc your contract is worded poorly and doesn't cover your current situation.

I think that you need to work on your communication skills. Not everything can be done via text/email/letters. Sometimes things need to be spoken about, face to face. I bet if that is how this was handled, she would have understood, made alternate arrangements for the days you were not available, and continued her son in your care. Her email sounds courteous and reasonable.

Also, she is a coach and works in retail - those schedules are NOT predictable! Its up to you to interview properly and find a good fit. I am failing to see how any of this is her fault. Its not like she is some absent mother who is shopping during these crazy hours, she is working to provide for her family.

Reply

I disagree. The parent had a contract with set days/hours and she, time and time again, changed them at the last minute. Whether or not legomom expressed her annoyance the first few months doesn't matter. When this 3rd, even more random, schedule was presented to her by the parent, she had had enough. She DID offer her a plan to work things out in a schedule that she could work with, but the parent didn't accept it or acknowledge the new proposed plan whatsoever. So then, legomom, decides she's had enough and terminates. I don't think there's anything wrong or out of line about this at all. And I think she does owe for 2 weeks because she never signed a new contract saying she didn't owe upon termination, which means she was operating under the old contract. The only thing I think should be dismissed is the dentist appointment day, which was unclear in your contract if she should pay or not.

Reply

Agree that retail and coaching hours are not predictable and it seemed like, at first, legomom was fine with the variable schedule. But this parent's schedule has gotten so crazy that she is handing her a calendar with days marked by a question mark. No way would I put up with that either.

Yes, the parent is working and providing for her family, but the provider is trying to do the same thing. If she doesn't want to put up with the crazy schedule anymore, that's her prerogative. The parent didn't do anything wrong, but that doesn't mean the provider has to have a crazy schedule just because the parent does.

I don't think anyone did anything wrong, it just wasn't working out anymore.

Reply

Daycare Mama totaly understands!

Maybe you failed to read this:

Originally, when she first came, she had contracted for Sept & Oct: Tues & Thurs 630-2, Fri 1130-4 . Then for Nov & Dec, went to Mon 645-3, Thurs 730-3, Fri 11-4. Now on paper this looks ok, and it's doable, however, the schedule NEVER stayed like this. It was all over the place and she would text me alot at night to tell me hrs for the next day. There was not 1 time since Oct 16, that she ever picked up after 2.

I had only agreed to variable schedule as stated above, with set times on set days. I didnt care that the times on Tuesdays were different from Fridays.

I should also add for the first 2 months, Sept & Oct, the schedule pretty much stayed as contracted, and I'm sorry that I failed to communicate that. The problem really started to emerge in Nov, when her days changed. She never had communicated to me at the interview, exactly how CRAZY her schedule gets, of course she probably didn't want to scare me off either. Considering the fact that I go to physical therepy 2x a week, have 2 sons who have to go to the orthodontist 1x month, have numerous problems with my teeth, etc, I never ever would have agreed to such a wacky schedule if she had been UPFRONT and HONEST with me in the beginning.

I also want to comment, that she was aware of the fact that I went to physical therepy 2x/wk, and that I needed a schedule to go by so I could make my appointments. But it never sank in her head how many times I told her that. I also told her in the beginning when she had wanted to switch a day for 1 wk, (like she wanted to switch her tues for a wed because of a appt she had) that I did not provide care on Wednesdays because i try to make most of my appointments on that day. So why would she provide me with a schedule that now included Wednesdays without even asking me??

I dont know how you think that I have been unreliable in providing care..it has been the total opposite! I have bent over backwards and rearranged my schedules & appointments for her!

And according to Tom, my contract is valid because it is the last signed document.

Reply

If I am understanding this correctly, the lady kept changing her hours even after she scheduled them. So she was being unreliable to the provider. She was supposed to give provider a schedule each month. Provider would take that schedule, work her appointments around it, and then the lady would end up changing her hours on the provider, making the provider change HER appointments to accomodate the lady's "new last minute" schedule, and then the lady would change her schedule on the provider another time, conflicting with the post poned appointment. So provider sent out a letter clearly outlined to say you're options are (a) bring your child 3 days week, with set days that cannot change, OR (b) switch to the full time rate and you can come and go as you please during the 8 contracted hours of 6:30-2:30.
After all, the lady hadn't picked her child up after 2:30 pm in over 2 months (right lego mom?). So she's given 8 contracted hours a day, any day and any hours between 6:30-2:30, for the full time price.
Lady told provider that wouldn't work in any way shape or form. Provider had said in her letter that if those options would not work then they would terminate care (right, lego mom?). So when lady said those options wouldn't work, provider had no other choice but to terminate.
So if I did understand all this right, it sounds like to me that provider did the best thing she could do, considering how unreliable the lady was even after giving her a wacky schedule already, and not communicating to her at the time of enrollment exactly HOW crazy her schedule would be. She was basically expecting the provider to allow her to wait until late the night before to tell her, "by the way, my hours changed and you have to cacel your appointment and watch my child tomorrow at these hours, instead if these hours that I told you before". Who can have a daycare with parents who bring their children just whenever and changing their schedule all the time? I understand it's not the lady's fault her hours changed, but that's a LOT to expect a daycare provider to do, when that provider can only take two children at a time anyway. In a center it may have been different, and more realistic for them to accomodate. Also, if I understand right, the provider is owed the amount she asked for, since she had it listed in the contract that parent would owe.

Reply

You have everything correct except I didnt give her the option of 3 days. It was 5 or nothing.

You had the nerve to tell me that I never told her I cancelled my appt 3 wks ago and had to resch it. She said I never "communicated" that to her. Hmmm...I didn't know I was suppose to let her know of all of my appt's that I have sch on my off hrs? So I basically told her that I have no obligation to tell her of personnal things I have planned and its none of her business, and that the only time I need to inform any of clients that I have a appt, is when it does conflict with the time they are scheduled for care.

She also said that she thought she was doing me a favor by dropping off later and picking up earlier. So I said "if I have a 830 appt because you are sch to drop off at 11, and you text me the night before to tell me (not ask me) now you are dropping off at 9 instead, how are you do me a favor? You have now put me in a position where I have to resch my appt to accomodate your sch change at the last minute. That is NOT doing me a favor!

I also told her that she is not my only client, and she does not have exculsive use of me and that she may be better off finding a babysitter who can be more flexable who doesnt have to worry about counts, or juggling other clients around and who is not relying on pay for their income.

I made her a deal. I settled, even though I probably shouldnt have, but I just wanted to be done with the matter, I told her yesterday that if she pays me the 140, I will cancel out the remaining bal, as long as I have a ck by Fri. She agreed.

Thanks again for all of your help during this time. I was so stressed! I'm going to enjoy my peace today.

Reply

Yes, now you can enjoy your peace. What will you do without the stress It will be so good for you to have this over now.

Reply