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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Baby That Doesn't Get Any Easier...
MamaBear 09:49 AM 06-22-2011
This DCB I have has been here a couple months now... He just turned 6 months & started at 4 months. He has always been difficult from the beginning as far as crying A LOT. Hes only happy after his afternoon nap and just a fuss bucket the whole first half of the day... even after his morning nap. He eats good and is clean, dry and all that. I have been trying for weeks to get him on a schedule and get him used to his little naps. He screams & cries every time I lay him down for nap --- sometimes only for a few minutes but other days he just wont give up and he gets sweaty and crazy cry mode.

My question is... when does this pass? Hes 6 months now. When does a baby typically stop crying constantly or just become a little easier? I've been lucky with easy babies in my daycare that dont normally act like this... so I'm at a loss as to if this is a permanent personality trait or just because hes still young. I am certain the mom holds him ALL the time by the way he acts. I sure hope hes not a rage baby
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wdmmom 10:03 AM 06-22-2011
Keep him on a strict schedule for 4 weeks. No change = No stay.

Anytime a child hits 6 months here, he is put on the same schedule as the other kids. Only exception is he/she gets a morning nap.

I have a 9 month old, he started when he was 6 months. By the 2nd week, he was golden and conformed to the schedule.

He comes in at 730am, plays til 9am, diaper change, nap at 930 til 1030, play till 11am, feed baby food at 11 - 1115, bottle at 1145 or 12pm, diaper change, nap from 1230 to 3pm, another bottle at 3pm, plays til 430 and leaves.

Easy day.

I also have a small "nursery" and I only have 1 other child in there with him. It's dark and quiet and offers him the good kind of rest his little body needs.

Try separating him and allowing him to CIO if necessary.

Infants like to fight sleep. Sometimes all's they need is 5 minutes of CIO and they'll go to sleep.
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MamaBear 10:30 AM 06-22-2011
Thats pretty much the exact same schedule I do with this baby. But the difference is he CIO almost every time. He just wont adjust. I put him in the nursery/playroom where no kids go where hes napping so he has total peace & quiet. I've tried having him out in the same room with me thinking maybe he "needs" noise around him to relax, but that was way worse.

So do you think I should give him a couple more months since hes just 6 months old right now? I'm wondering if hes still too young to really get used to a nap time yet? It doesnt help that the mom does absolutely no schedule at home. I tell her constantly what I do and she laughs that she cant get him on any schedule at home. She said if he cries she just gets him up and lets him play and that he does that several times before he falls asleep. So shes not teaching him any nap routine at home then he comes here and I'm the "bad guy".
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mickey2 10:38 AM 06-22-2011
Stick to your routine and do the same thing everyday. He will soon learn what he can do at your home and what he can do with mom!
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cheerfuldom 10:51 AM 06-22-2011
I disagree with the other posters. It will be next to impossible to get baby transitioned when mom is doing whatever at home and also holding him all the time (likely holding him for naps too). I have never had success with a young baby when home and daycare are so different. Toddlers yes but its up to you if you want to stick it out till he understands that things are different at daycare. It could be 6 months to a year before he gets it, if ever. 8 weeks is plenty of time to adjust so either its working for you or its not. Almost all of the kids I have here start as newborns and in 5 years, babies only work out well here if mom and dad are doing the same thing at home as here. Rage babies, from my experience, are the kids that have no schedule and constant attention at home (among other things) and you already know that is the case in this situation. If you have the room to CIO and keep hanging in there with him, then its not such a big deal but I know how exhausting it is when there isn't the room for a baby to CIO without getting the other kids worked up or driving you crazy.
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momofsix 10:55 AM 06-22-2011
I had one like this. She was pretty fussy at home too. Just not a happy baby at all! I have 6 children of my own, and have had so many dc babies, but never one as grumpy as she was That lasted until she was about a year old, then suddenly she turned into a completely different baby! She just turned 2 and she is such a sweetie pie-I'm so glad I stuck with her through her bad year, even though at times it was tough!
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christinaskids 11:25 AM 06-22-2011
I have one like that here too and a schedule really helped. He likes lots of floor time to play and I sometimes put him in the swing to nap and he is doing a bit better. I would also encourage the parents to take him to a dr. or gastroentronologist to check things out and make sure he is ok. I would be very concerned about his health since babies can't exactly tell us what is wrong. My bedroom is also upstairs and is where he naps since it is quieter. Maybe your daycare is just too loud depending on how many kids you have and he is overstimulated, it could be just a bad fit for him. Just some suggestions for you to try out
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MamaBear 12:22 PM 06-22-2011
Originally Posted by christinaskids:
My bedroom is also upstairs and is where he naps since it is quieter. Maybe your daycare is just too loud depending on how many kids you have and he is overstimulated, it could be just a bad fit for him. Just some suggestions for you to try out
Actually my daycare is super quiet right now. I have 3 out during summer break, so I only have ONE other daycare toddler right now. So I know noise isnt the issue for him being over stimulated. / I guess I'll just have to wait him out and HOPE that he'll improve in the next couple months. If he doesnt, then I'll have to term. I gotta keep my sanity!!
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lpperry 12:35 PM 06-22-2011
What time does he wake up in the morning and what time do you put him down for his morning nap? If a 6 month old is crying frequently like you are describing, I would bet that the baby is not getting enough sleep.

An early 6 month old should only be awake for 2.25-2.5 hours before going down for a nap. A late 6 month old should be starting to be awake for 2.75-3 hours before nap. Also, the nap should be at least 1.5 hours to be effective at all.

So, (and this is just an example, because you didn't give specifics) if your 6 month old is waking at 6, and then napping for 45 minutes from 10-10:45, I would expect that baby to be super cranky even when waking from the nap.

I understand that many of you probably have your, dcks on a set nap schedule, but if op has an overtired baby like this I would try putting for a nap after the correlating hours of awake time and see if it helps the problem.
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MamaBear 03:18 PM 06-22-2011
Originally Posted by lpperry:
What time does he wake up in the morning and what time do you put him down for his morning nap? If a 6 month old is crying frequently like you are describing, I would bet that the baby is not getting enough sleep.

An early 6 month old should only be awake for 2.25-2.5 hours before going down for a nap. A late 6 month old should be starting to be awake for 2.75-3 hours before nap. Also, the nap should be at least 1.5 hours to be effective at all.

So, (and this is just an example, because you didn't give specifics) if your 6 month old is waking at 6, and then napping for 45 minutes from 10-10:45, I would expect that baby to be super cranky even when waking from the nap.

I understand that many of you probably have your, dcks on a set nap schedule, but if op has an overtired baby like this I would try putting for a nap after the correlating hours of awake time and see if it helps the problem.

This is the schedule that he's on right now:

So basically he has a bottle every couple hours... and the morning nap is usually 1 hour - sometimes 1.5 hr if I'm lucky. And the afternoon nap is always about 2 hours. And he wakes up SO happy after that second nap. If what your saying is right about how they should only be awake 2.5 hrs max at this age... then maybe I need to put him to bed ASAP when he gets here in the morning after a bottle... I'll try that tomorrow and see what happens. Are 3 naps too much for a 6 month old though? Maybe some babies just need a lot of sleep huh?
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MamaBear 03:20 PM 06-22-2011
Thanks by the way for all the advice & info!
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wdmmom 03:20 PM 06-22-2011
Do you think he's eating too much that his tummy is upset? That sure seems like a lot of food too often!
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MamaBear 07:10 AM 06-23-2011
Originally Posted by wdmmom:
Do you think he's eating too much that his tummy is upset? That sure seems like a lot of food too often!

I've been feeding him pretty much according to what his mom requested me to. She wants him to have 4 oz of formula every 2 hours. Hes having 3-4 oz per feeding and eats just a few bites of his baby food at his meal times. So I dont think hes eating too much.

Thanks for all your advice...
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christinaskids 07:14 AM 06-23-2011
I agree that is isn't getting enough sleep, you may just have to try other things like a lullaby cd, or blackout curtains to see if that helps.
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sahm2three 07:19 AM 06-23-2011
Originally Posted by MamaBear:
This DCB I have has been here a couple months now... He just turned 6 months & started at 4 months. He has always been difficult from the beginning as far as crying A LOT. Hes only happy after his afternoon nap and just a fuss bucket the whole first half of the day... even after his morning nap. He eats good and is clean, dry and all that. I have been trying for weeks to get him on a schedule and get him used to his little naps. He screams & cries every time I lay him down for nap --- sometimes only for a few minutes but other days he just wont give up and he gets sweaty and crazy cry mode.

My question is... when does this pass? Hes 6 months now. When does a baby typically stop crying constantly or just become a little easier? I've been lucky with easy babies in my daycare that dont normally act like this... so I'm at a loss as to if this is a permanent personality trait or just because hes still young. I am certain the mom holds him ALL the time by the way he acts. I sure hope hes not a rage baby
I don't want to scare you, but my fussy 4 mo dcb is now a super fussy, constantly screaming, nothing makes him happy 15 mo! I hope for your sake he gets easier, but mine sure hasn't. I have given the mom and dad a heads up that if he doesn't improve soon that they will have to find someone else to take him.
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AnythingsPossible 07:24 AM 06-23-2011
I have had one like this since January. He is a very fussy baby. We hoped things would change when he could sit, crawl, get involved, but it has stayed the same. He is like this at home too. Generally if he is being held, he doesn't scream. But if you aren't holding him or sitting on the floor right by him, he lets out screams and cries. I stick with him because I adore his mom. His sister was a difficult baby too, but not like him!
I just continue to hope it will get better! Does he come full time? Mine is only here 2 to 3 days a week, which I think is part of the issue. So I can't offer any advice, but I certainly feel for you!
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MamaBear 07:33 AM 06-23-2011
Hes here full time... Monday-Friday from 7am-4pm. Hes here now and came super tired and half awake when mom dropped him off. So he had a bottle and fell asleep. I'm hoping he'll take a good morning nap and wake up the happy baby he can be.

I had an older baby before that was about 16 months old when he started that would cry ALL the time. I couldnt leave his site without him totally freaking out. His mom said he had stranger anxiety and separation anxiety. He loved me but anytime a parent would come pick up another child, he'd lose it. Or if another kid just stood in front of his view of me he'd freak out. I kept him for about 6 months HOPING that I could fix him, but it just got worse and I sadly had to term him because it was just way too disruptive to the daycare.

At least this baby doesnt have those issues. He can entertain himself without "seeing" me constantly. He just is a little grump bucket sometimes! haha ~ Oh the joys of daycare
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Blackcat31 07:51 AM 06-23-2011
Originally Posted by MamaBear:
This DCB I have has been here a couple months now... He just turned 6 months & started at 4 months. He has always been difficult from the beginning as far as crying A LOT. Hes only happy after his afternoon nap and just a fuss bucket the whole first half of the day... even after his morning nap. He eats good and is clean, dry and all that. I have been trying for weeks to get him on a schedule and get him used to his little naps. He screams & cries every time I lay him down for nap --- sometimes only for a few minutes but other days he just wont give up and he gets sweaty and crazy cry mode.

My question is... when does this pass? Hes 6 months now. When does a baby typically stop crying constantly or just become a little easier? I've been lucky with easy babies in my daycare that dont normally act like this... so I'm at a loss as to if this is a permanent personality trait or just because hes still young. I am certain the mom holds him ALL the time by the way he acts. I sure hope hes not a rage baby
That right there would be the deal breaker for me! If mom does not work WITH you and works against you, then you are fighting a losing battle and something I will never do to myself, the child in question and the other daycare kids ever ever again. Once was enough.
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cheerfuldom 08:58 AM 06-23-2011
that was my point too blackcat. There is not much you can do with a baby when you know that mom and dad are doing the opposite at home
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MommyMuffin 12:07 PM 06-23-2011
Originally Posted by MamaBear:
This DCB I have has been here a couple months now... He just turned 6 months & started at 4 months. He has always been difficult from the beginning as far as crying A LOT. Hes only happy after his afternoon nap and just a fuss bucket the whole first half of the day... even after his morning nap. He eats good and is clean, dry and all that. I have been trying for weeks to get him on a schedule and get him used to his little naps. He screams & cries every time I lay him down for nap --- sometimes only for a few minutes but other days he just wont give up and he gets sweaty and crazy cry mode.

My question is... when does this pass? Hes 6 months now. When does a baby typically stop crying constantly or just become a little easier? I've been lucky with easy babies in my daycare that dont normally act like this... so I'm at a loss as to if this is a permanent personality trait or just because hes still young. I am certain the mom holds him ALL the time by the way he acts. I sure hope hes not a rage baby
I have 2 difficult babies in my care right now. The oldest one is 9 months now (came at 4 months) and will not take a nap! After months of trying everything I finally just focused on his cues. (Also read lots of Dr. Sears books)

Now with him I feed him his bottle while he sits up...kinda like a goat, otherwise he screams and kicks me. Then when the bottle is almost gone I give him a pacifier and lay him on the floor right next to me. YES, the floor right next to me is the only place he will sleep and he will only sleep for 20 - 30 minutes.

Now that I have that routine though, he is happy, and although I never get a break, him and I have a great bond now. Plus, his parents are awesome so I stuck it out and I am glad. I'm nervous about when he is a toddler though because I will not have a toddler running around during nap time.

I struggled to get even this lame nap routine down. If you are willing to invest the extra time and tears and hurting ears then I would stick it out and try reading their signals.

Otherwise, to be honest, at least in my area, it is soooo easy to fill infant spots that if I didnt want to deal with a high needs baby I would term and move on to the next baby.
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lpperry 03:04 PM 06-23-2011
Originally Posted by MamaBear:
This is the schedule that he's on right now:
  • Wakes up at home at 5:00am (according to the mom)
  • Has a bottle at home @ 5:45am (according to the mom)
  • Gets dropped off here at 7am
  • Plays until about 8am
  • Has a bottle @ 8am / Breakfast (baby cereal w/ formula) @ 8:30am
  • Plays till @ 9am
  • Naps usually from 9am-10am... wakes up super grumpy
  • Has a bottle @ 10am
  • Plays till about 11am
  • Has lunch at 11:30am (gerber 1st foods)
  • Plays till about 12:30pm
  • Bottle @ 12:30pm
  • Naps from 12:30pm-2:30pm ... sometimes till 3pm!
  • Wakes up - has a bottle and is as HAPPY as could be till his mom picks up at 4pm


So basically he has a bottle every couple hours... and the morning nap is usually 1 hour - sometimes 1.5 hr if I'm lucky. And the afternoon nap is always about 2 hours. And he wakes up SO happy after that second nap. If what your saying is right about how they should only be awake 2.5 hrs max at this age... then maybe I need to put him to bed ASAP when he gets here in the morning after a bottle... I'll try that tomorrow and see what happens. Are 3 naps too much for a 6 month old though? Maybe some babies just need a lot of sleep huh?
5am is super early, so he is most likely not getting 11-12 hours of sleep at night either. I have found that the 5am babies are super fussy because they aren't getting enough night sleep. So, yes, if he is up at 5am, try putting him to sleep right when he arrives. I would ask each morning what time he woke up though--if he gets up later, like 6:30, put him down at 9.

Yes at 6 months, usually it is normal to have 2 long naps and then a shorter nap in the evening. If he is waking that early, maybe even 3 long naps...

It sounds like he is not really eating at appropriate times for his age. Eating every 2 hours is appropriate for a newborn, but NOT for a 6 month old. He should be having a bottle every 4ish hours with 2-3 meals of solids per day. I know more about breastmilk amounts, but at 6 months, I would guess 5-6 ounces of formula every 4 hours would be about right.

I like to feed the bottle right when baby wakes from nap. That way, you have your 2.5 hours of awake time, the 1.5/2 hour nap and then feed again upon waking from the nap--that gives you 4ish hours in between feeds. As the time awake lengthens, naps stay the same length, the baby will gradually get longer between the bottle feeds. I would NOT be bottle feeding a 6 month old every 2 hours--that's just not good for the baby.

So, my schedule for this baby would be:
7:30: put down for nap at arrival
7:30-9/9:30: nap (hopefully--you might find it even longer if you get him down as soon as he arrives since he was up so early)
9/9:30: 5-6 ounce bottle when he wakes
feed the breakfast solids when your other kids have their morning snack
12:00-2 (time is an example--do 2.25-2.5 hours after waking and hopefully he will sleep for 2 hours): nap
2:00: 5-6 ounce bottle
solids whenever you want
4:00--go home-- evening solids at home. hopefully he will get another nap and get to bed at a decent hour--

I think your biggest issue is that he is up sooo early and then he is up way too long before his first nap. He is overtired, which doesn't allow him to sleep well or long for that morning nap, which makes him grumpy when he wakes. Considering that he does sleep for 2 hours in the afternoon even after being overtired in the morning, makes me think that putting him back to bed at 7:30 is going to help you tremendously.

Also--this is just my suggestion for a routine for this specific child with what you have to work with. If his parents could get him to sleep until 7am instead of 5am, it would be even easier to fix this grumpy baby.

I am going to list the awake times for all the ages so you have it for when he gets older in the next post.
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lpperry 03:06 PM 06-23-2011
So you have this for when the baby gets older--these are a guideline so that you can better figure out what time to put the baby down for a nap as he gets older. They have really worked for me!

Awake time for babies
Newborn 50-60 mins
1 month 60 mins- 1 hour and 15
2 months 1 hour and 15 - 20 mins
3 months 1 hour and 20 - 30 mins
4 months 1 hour and 45 - 2 hours
5 months 2 hours - 2.25 hours
Late 5 months/early 6 months 2.25-2.5 hours
6.5 - 7 months 2.75-3 hours. Some are getting more.
8 - 10 months 3 - 4 hours. Some are getting more.
11 - 12 months 3.5 -4.5 hours. Some are getting more if moved early to 1 nap
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MamaBear 03:46 PM 06-23-2011
Originally Posted by lpperry:
So you have this for when the baby gets older--these are a guideline so that you can better figure out what time to put the baby down for a nap as he gets older. They have really worked for me!

Awake time for babies
Newborn 50-60 mins
1 month 60 mins- 1 hour and 15
2 months 1 hour and 15 - 20 mins
3 months 1 hour and 20 - 30 mins
4 months 1 hour and 45 - 2 hours
5 months 2 hours - 2.25 hours
Late 5 months/early 6 months 2.25-2.5 hours
6.5 - 7 months 2.75-3 hours. Some are getting more.
8 - 10 months 3 - 4 hours. Some are getting more.
11 - 12 months 3.5 -4.5 hours. Some are getting more if moved early to 1 nap
Thats awesome! Thanks!
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