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View Poll Results: Where do you stand on Gay Marriage?
Marriage is only between a man and a woman 33 24.26%
Never should be allowed 6 4.41%
Should be allowed 89 65.44%
It's none of my business 28 20.59%
eeewwwww....that grosses me out :/ 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 136. You may not vote on this poll

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  #101  
Old 04-01-2013, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by My3cents View Post
nah smah If God was included in your ceremony then I feel your marriage was a legal marriage and one of religion. I don't believe that because someone is not married in a church that they don't have a religious marriage. Religion is personal and comes in many forms other then Catholic Faith.


I guess I read what she said differently. I agree with what you said above but I also believe that God does not have to be included in a marriage to make it legal.

Last edited by Blackcat31; 04-01-2013 at 01:22 PM. Reason: fixed quote
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  #102  
Old 04-01-2013, 03:14 PM
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I have mulled over posting on this thread but something in the back of my mind keeps bring this up and reading it.

I am a Christian and strive on a daily basis to follow the Lord and do what I feel is right.

Gay marriage I feel is not right and was not instituted to be between two people of the same sex. It is to be between a man and a woman. There are many,many places in the BIBLE that says this. No where does it say its ok for to people of the same sex to be married. No where-whether legal or not.

Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because of the homosexuality going on in the city for one of the bigger examples in the BIBLE. It talks on how it is wrong in the New Testament as well. It is condemed throughout the entire Bible.

If God wanted people of the same sex to be married/together, I feel thats who he would have put on the earth first-not a man and a woman. If he had put to people on the earth of the same sex, guess what there would have been no more population! It would have stopped right there.

I also do not like how churches are suddenly OK with the whole issue because of the fear they are being put through. Nothing has changed in the BIBLE, its still the same now as it was in the beginning. I feel sometimes Christians go along with the flow because we are tired of the fight. We also, have had many things taken away from us but if we go against the grain we are instantly "Haters".

God doesn't make something that he considers "sinful". We all have choices in how we live our life. We have a right choice and a wrong choice. We have a choice to commit sin or not.

No where in the Bible does it say you have to be married in a church building to be considered married. This is again something that has been added to different religions. In fact there were no Church Buildings in the Bible. The church is actually the body of people that attend the church-the assembly. So to say you aren't married unless married in the church is not even correct. Saying you aren't married unless you were to be married in the church building would be correct. I find no mention of where a person is to be married in order to be considered married. In the BIBLE, Christians met in homes of each other and some do that to this day.

Alot is taken away and added to the Bible by man to make life easier for us. God did take quiet a bit away himself from the Old Testament to the New Testament. Because I believe something is wrong because of my faith doesn't make me a hater. Every day I see things that are wrong in our world that are slowly becoming the norm and at the end of the day, I have to look back and think did I do everything I could to make this a better world the way I was taught, raised and believe in.
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  #103  
Old 04-01-2013, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by My3cents View Post
Ideal--- translates to perfect for me. None of us are perfect.

To a child that is being raised by two loving adults, that family is ideal to that child.

Your right your personal belief won't change the world for the better if your stuck in that mind set. I do worry about that, because it is not fair to loving couples that just want to live their lives.
I don't understand why is it not fair for them, I am not stopping
them from getting married, what I believe or think is right should not affect them at all. For me a person comes from a man and a woman, they should be able to experience that, what we as image of God were design to be, but that is me, I am a Christian and not a liberal one and I know not the entire USA has to live by biblical standards, I wish they would but they don't have to. Now that does not mean that because gay marriage is going to be legal I will change my mind and what I believe is right or wrong, and that all of the sudden I will call the God I believe in a liar. Again is a matter of opinions and I don't think I hurt no one by believing and thinking the way I do.
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  #104  
Old 04-01-2013, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Country Kids View Post
I have mulled over posting on this thread but something in the back of my mind keeps bring this up and reading it.

I am a Christian and strive on a daily basis to follow the Lord and do what I feel is right.

Gay marriage I feel is not right and was not instituted to be between two people of the same sex. It is to be between a man and a woman. There are many,many places in the BIBLE that says this. No where does it say its ok for to people of the same sex to be married. No where-whether legal or not.

Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because of the homosexuality going on in the city for one of the bigger examples in the BIBLE. It talks on how it is wrong in the New Testament as well. It is condemed throughout the entire Bible.


If God wanted people of the same sex to be married/together, I feel thats who he would have put on the earth first-not a man and a woman. If he had put to people on the earth of the same sex, guess what there would have been no more population! It would have stopped right there.

I also do not like how churches are suddenly OK with the whole issue because of the fear they are being put through. Nothing has changed in the BIBLE, its still the same now as it was in the beginning. I feel sometimes Christians go along with the flow because we are tired of the fight. We also, have had many things taken away from us but if we go against the grain we are instantly "Haters".

God doesn't make something that he considers "sinful". We all have choices in how we live our life. We have a right choice and a wrong choice. We have a choice to commit sin or not.

No where in the Bible does it say you have to be married in a church building to be considered married. This is again something that has been added to different religions. In fact there were no Church Buildings in the Bible. The church is actually the body of people that attend the church-the assembly. So to say you aren't married unless married in the church is not even correct. Saying you aren't married unless you were to be married in the church building would be correct. I find no mention of where a person is to be married in order to be considered married. In the BIBLE, Christians met in homes of each other and some do that to this day.

Alot is taken away and added to the Bible by man to make life easier for us. God did take quiet a bit away himself from the Old Testament to the New Testament. Because I believe something is wrong because of my faith doesn't make me a hater. Every day I see things that are wrong in our world that are slowly becoming the norm and at the end of the day, I have to look back and think did I do everything I could to make this a better world the way I was taught, raised and believe in.
Could not agree with you more I have been called a hater for expressin my opinions about this, not here though.
The people that fights so hard for TOLERANCE is the most intolerant people towards Christians. All of the sudden we cannot express ourselves because if we do, we hate. We don't come from a place of hate but of love. If one sin is accepted as good, then all other sins are good as well, fornication ( already accepted ) unfaithfulness, euthanasia, polygamy, polyandry you name it, it is all OK and should be practice by those who want to, because again, once one sin is OK all of them are. This times are frightening, I hope I can do the best I can raising my child.
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  #105  
Old 04-01-2013, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by jokalima View Post
Could not agree with you more I have been called a hater for expressin my opinions about this, not here though.
The people that fights so hard for TOLERANCE is the most intolerant people towards Christians. All of the sudden we cannot express ourselves because if we do, we hate. We don't come from a place of hate but of love. If one sin is accepted as good, then all other sins are good as well, fornication ( already accepted ) unfaithfulness, euthanasia, polygamy, polyandry you name it, it is all OK and should be practice by those who want to, because again, once one sin is OK all of them are. This times are frightening, I hope I can do the best I can raising my child.
Very True!
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  #106  
Old 04-01-2013, 04:49 PM
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The people that fights so hard for TOLERANCE is the most intolerant people towards Christians.
I completely understand what you are saying but it is a two way street isn't it?

I'm guessing that "some of the people who who fight so hard for tolerance" (as you say) may have been told that they will go to hell, or that their marriage doesn't count as legitimate because they weren't married in a certain type of building, or feel judged by many Christians because they are single and chose to have a child, or because they married outside of their ethnicity, or had their child's funeral picketted, or because they are gay or lesbian.

I live my life in a way that conforms to most Christian standards but there is absolutely no way I would ever affiliate myself with the Christians. For me it is the judgmental hypocrisy that sends me screaming in the opposite direction.

I say let any two adults who love each other marry if they want to. It doesn't take anything away from my marriage at all. Share the love.
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  #107  
Old 04-01-2013, 04:56 PM
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Academy of Pediatrics supports gay marriage.
Exerpt below:

The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) supports civil marriage for same-gender couples – as well as full adoption and foster care rights for all parents, regardless of sexual orientation – as the best way to guarantee benefits and security for their children.



The AAP policy statement, “Promoting the Well-Being of Children Whose Parents Are Gay or Lesbian,” and an accompanying technical report will be published in the April 2013 Pediatrics (published online March 21).



“Children thrive in families that are stable and that provide permanent security, and the way we do that is through marriage,” said Benjamin Siegel, MD, FAAP, chair of the AAP Committee on Psychosocial Aspects of Child and Family Health, and a co-author of the policy statement. “The AAP believes there should be equal opportunity for every couple to access the economic stability and federal supports provided to married couples to raise children.”



In a previous policy statement published in 2002 and reaffirmed in 2010, the AAP supported second-parent adoption by partners of the same sex as a way to protect children’s right to maintain relationships with both parents, eligibility for health benefits and financial security. The 2013 policy statement and accompanying technical report adds recommendations in support of civil marriage for same-gender couples; adoption by single parents, co-parents or second parents regardless of sexual orientation; and foster care placement regardless of sexual orientation.



“The AAP has long been an advocate for all children, and this updated policy reflects a natural progression in the Academy’s support for families,” said Ellen Perrin, MD, FAAP, co-author of the policy statement. “If a child has two loving and capable parents who choose to create a permanent bond, it’s in the best interest of their children that legal institutions allow them to do so.”



A great deal of scientific research documents there is no cause-and-effect relationship between parents’ sexual orientation and children’s well-being, according to the AAP policy. In fact, many studies attest to the normal development of children of same-gender couples when the child is wanted, the parents have a commitment to shared parenting, and the parents have strong social and economic support. Critical factors that affect the normal development and mental health of children are parental stress, economic and social stability, community resources, discrimination, and children’s exposure to toxic stressors at home or in their communities -- not the sexual orientation of their parents.



According to the policy statement, the AAP “supports pediatricians advocating for public policies that help all children and their parents, regardless of sexual orientation, build and maintain strong, stable, and healthy families that are able to meet the needs of their children.”




What is unfair about any of that?
Another quote I saw earlier states that Marriage predates Christianity, so Christianity should not be able to define it.
Looking past your religion, what are your personal issues with homosexuality? The excuse that the children will be ridiculed is not valid. I was told the same thing when I married outside of my race. I was asked how it would make the church family feel? What would my children go through? I have been happily married for 9 years. My children are happiy alive. It's my life, and my happiness.
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  #108  
Old 04-01-2013, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ABCDaycareMN View Post
I do believe they should receive the same bennifets as married man/women do I just believe "marriage" is a man and woman.
This is how I feel. We have several close friends and family members that are gay and I believe they should have EVERY right that a man & woman have in marriage...BUT it needs to continue being called something other than "Marriage", like a "Union" or whatever else!

In my opinion, "Marriage" is defined by the union of man & woman, so it is wrong to use that word with same sex couples. Call it ANYTHING else you want and I'm completely fine with it all!

What someone wants to do in their own bedroom is their business and I truly do not care! However, I'm so tired of this "so called" fight for equality by gays. They ALREADY have the same EXACT benefits...it's just not called "marriage" in every state!!!!

Here in CA, we have voted on gay marriage and it did not pass, but somehow they think that the election meant nothing, even though that was what the majority wanted. Why even hold an election if the Supreme Court wants to arbitrarily over turn what the people of this state wanted. We might as well live in a dictatorship!

CA is extremely liberal and there is a huge concentration of gays, so I have to say it was shocking, when my vote was in the majority.

I truly believe in the sanctity of "marriage" & that will never change!
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  #109  
Old 04-01-2013, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Binkybobo View Post
Academy of Pediatrics supports gay marriage.
Exerpt below:

The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) supports civil marriage for same-gender couples – as well as full adoption and foster care rights for all parents, regardless of sexual orientation – as the best way to guarantee benefits and security for their children.



The AAP policy statement, “Promoting the Well-Being of Children Whose Parents Are Gay or Lesbian,” and an accompanying technical report will be published in the April 2013 Pediatrics (published online March 21).



“Children thrive in families that are stable and that provide permanent security, and the way we do that is through marriage,” said Benjamin Siegel, MD, FAAP, chair of the AAP Committee on Psychosocial Aspects of Child and Family Health, and a co-author of the policy statement. “The AAP believes there should be equal opportunity for every couple to access the economic stability and federal supports provided to married couples to raise children.”



In a previous policy statement published in 2002 and reaffirmed in 2010, the AAP supported second-parent adoption by partners of the same sex as a way to protect children’s right to maintain relationships with both parents, eligibility for health benefits and financial security. The 2013 policy statement and accompanying technical report adds recommendations in support of civil marriage for same-gender couples; adoption by single parents, co-parents or second parents regardless of sexual orientation; and foster care placement regardless of sexual orientation.



“The AAP has long been an advocate for all children, and this updated policy reflects a natural progression in the Academy’s support for families,” said Ellen Perrin, MD, FAAP, co-author of the policy statement. “If a child has two loving and capable parents who choose to create a permanent bond, it’s in the best interest of their children that legal institutions allow them to do so.”



A great deal of scientific research documents there is no cause-and-effect relationship between parents’ sexual orientation and children’s well-being, according to the AAP policy. In fact, many studies attest to the normal development of children of same-gender couples when the child is wanted, the parents have a commitment to shared parenting, and the parents have strong social and economic support. Critical factors that affect the normal development and mental health of children are parental stress, economic and social stability, community resources, discrimination, and children’s exposure to toxic stressors at home or in their communities -- not the sexual orientation of their parents.



According to the policy statement, the AAP “supports pediatricians advocating for public policies that help all children and their parents, regardless of sexual orientation, build and maintain strong, stable, and healthy families that are able to meet the needs of their children.”




What is unfair about any of that?
Another quote I saw earlier states that Marriage predates Christianity, so Christianity should not be able to define it.
Looking past your religion, what are your personal issues with homosexuality? The excuse that the children will be ridiculed is not valid. I was told the same thing when I married outside of my race. I was asked how it would make the church family feel? What would my children go through? I have been happily married for 9 years. My children are happiy alive. It's my life, and my happiness.
Beautiful.
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  #110  
Old 04-01-2013, 07:24 PM
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My feelings on the subject can be summed up in four words.

Live and let live.
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  #111  
Old 04-01-2013, 07:31 PM
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I base my beliefs and worldview on the Bible because I am a Christian.

I completely understand that a non-Christian would not give any authority to the Bible.

I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. It's a covenant between God, a man and a woman. It doesn't matter where a couple gets married. A building is not what validates a marriage. God instituted marriage right away when He created Adam and Eve.

I believe sex outside of marriage is a sin, whether it's before marriage or an affair. I believe homosexuality is a sin. But, it's no greater or less than any sin-be it gossip, stealing, murder...all sin is equal in the eyes of God. All of us are sinners and are only made righteous by the blood of Jesus. So any Christian that acts "holier" or "better than" anyone else is not truly following what the Bible teaches. As a matter of fact, Jesus had problems with the church people of his day more so than with the "sinners". I have a feeling that Jesus would show up at a gay wedding if He were on earth now just to teach the church leaders a lesson-because that's the kind of thing he did.


I know and love dearly a few people that are gay/lesbian. I really struggle with the fact that I know they didn't choose to be what they are any more than I chose to be straight. I just have to trust that the God I believe created them knows what he is doing now just as He did thousands of years ago when He inspired the writing of the Bible. His ways are not my ways and His thoughts are not mine...he is holy and I am a sinner.

I do support those who are in long term gay relationships having a civil union, I just prefer that it's not called "marriage".
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  #112  
Old 04-01-2013, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by CedarCreek View Post
1. That shouldn't even be an issue for children to say "ew" about.

2. What you're talking about is bullying and I hear it's not tolerated in schools nowadays.

Every kid has to deal with being picked on for something in their life. Can you think of nothing that your own children will be bullied for? I would assume that you would be upset too over it.
kids are very cruel!
but why purposely do this to them? If my kids were bullied for something and it was because of something I was doing.. I would fix it or make sure I kept my private life private.. not flaunt it and force everyone to change the way they believe!
They have enough to deal with. kids are born with abnormalities and some are overweight , too thin, wear glasses or whatever but the two mommy and 2 daddy homes are something that is done on purpose and these poor kids have to go through their whole lives defending their parents immoral behavior.

I watched a little of Rosie O'Donels gay cruise program and whenever they showed the kids faces when the adults were talking about how other people treat them, the kids looked embarrassed, ashamed and looked down a lot...they were not all standing tall and proud and defending their parents and why should they have to? When they have those gay pride parades, it's pretty disgusting .. all dressed in drag, wearing hardly any clothes. How could kids be proud of this lifestyle?

They probably secretly wish they can have a mom and dad at home. Seriously? would you want your two dads going bra shopping with you? or teaching you about your periods? well anyways I know a lot of people want to flame me now..

Just to let you know I do have a niece that is going to have a mastectomy and is going through the whole sex change ordeal.. guess what? she has a boy friend! BUT he wants to be a girl! I just don't get it...

I love her with all my heart but I will not call her by her male name.. I just can't ..this stuff makes me so sad.
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  #113  
Old 04-01-2013, 08:09 PM
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kids are very cruel!
but why purposely do this to them? If my kids were bullied for something and it was because of something I was doing.. I would fix it or make sure I kept my private life private.. not flaunt it and force everyone to change the way they believe!
They have enough to deal with. kids are born with abnormalities and some are overweight , too thin, wear glasses or whatever but the two mommy and 2 daddy homes are something that is done on purpose and these poor kids have to go through their whole lives defending their parents immoral behavior.

I watched a little of Rosie O'Donels gay cruise program and whenever they showed the kids faces when the adults were talking about how other people treat them, the kids looked embarrassed, ashamed and looked down a lot...they were not all standing tall and proud and defending their parents and why should they have to? When they have those gay pride parades, it's pretty disgusting .. all dressed in drag, wearing hardly any clothes. How could kids be proud of this lifestyle?

They probably secretly wish they can have a mom and dad at home. Seriously? would you want your two dads going bra shopping with you? or teaching you about your periods? well anyways I know a lot of people want to flame me now..

Just to let you know I do have a niece that is going to have a mastectomy and is going through the whole sex change ordeal.. guess what? she has a boy friend! BUT he wants to be a girl! I just don't get it...

I love her with all my heart but I will not call her by her male name.. I just can't ..this stuff makes me so sad.
There are also many children in the system that never get adopted. The "age" out of the system at 18. They are on their own with no family to go home to for the holidays, no one to laugh about old times with, and no one to call them on their birthday..........
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  #114  
Old 04-01-2013, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Michelle View Post
kids are very cruel!
but why purposely do this to them? If my kids were bullied for something and it was because of something I was doing.. I would fix it or make sure I kept my private life private.. not flaunt it and force everyone to change the way they believe!
They have enough to deal with. kids are born with abnormalities and some are overweight , too thin, wear glasses or whatever but the two mommy and 2 daddy homes are something that is done on purpose and these poor kids have to go through their whole lives defending their parents immoral behavior.

I watched a little of Rosie O'Donels gay cruise program and whenever they showed the kids faces when the adults were talking about how other people treat them, the kids looked embarrassed, ashamed and looked down a lot...they were not all standing tall and proud and defending their parents and why should they have to? When they have those gay pride parades, it's pretty disgusting .. all dressed in drag, wearing hardly any clothes. How could kids be proud of this lifestyle?

They probably secretly wish they can have a mom and dad at home. Seriously? would you want your two dads going bra shopping with you? or teaching you about your periods? well anyways I know a lot of people want to flame me now..

Just to let you know I do have a niece that is going to have a mastectomy and is going through the whole sex change ordeal.. guess what? she has a boy friend! BUT he wants to be a girl! I just don't get it...

I love her with all my heart but I will not call her by her male name.. I just can't ..this stuff makes me so sad.
LOL...My sister is gay. She and her partner have two children, 17 and 15. Both of the kids when to stellar private schools (oddly enough, Catholic High School) and no one cared that they have two moms, not even the nuns.

Both kids are doing great. My niece just got a $38,000 scholarshipr for college next year. They have tons of friends, play in sports, and have two parents who adore them. My sister and her partner are both lawyers (they own their own firm) and my sister is a law professor. At the moment, they are in Paris...

I will agree with you on one thing...children shouldn't have to defend their parents. Perhaps if more people taught their own children to respect others, they wouldn't have to.
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  #115  
Old 04-01-2013, 09:05 PM
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"Looking past your religion, what are your personal issues with homosexuality? The excuse that the children will be ridiculed is not valid. I was told the same thing when I married outside of my race."

I will say "A natual thing" alot in this post. What I mean by that is if it was suppose to be a way of life, it would have already been placed into nature and be a natural way of living.

If it is a natural thing, why then hasn't it been recognized and accepted since time began? Why over time has people not been more outspoken about it and lived open lives? Why be so secretive about it if thats the way God created them? It shouldn't have shocked anyone over the thousands of years if it were a natural thing.

I was a teenager/young adult in the 80's. It seemed there were so many gay people then that you couldn't keep up with it. Everyone seemed to come out of the closet. Remember when Rock Hudson came out! I remember "pretty boys" and walking into department stores to see men at the makeup counter. Why not push for it then? Why 30 years later? If we are to be accepting of it now, why wouldn't we have been accepting of it then.

A few years ago there was a "Man" in our state having children.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...ticle-1.291001

Thats something that you really don't want to even try to explain to your children and you shouldn't have to. A homosexual couple know from the get go that they can't have a child natually and will have to have help. If it was suppose to be natural, then they would be able to try for their own children first. A straight couple won't know that till they have tried for awhile and alot of times there is an answer and they can actually have their own child from both parents.

If it is a natural thing, how about the intimate part of life? Two men are using openings that weren't made for sexual intimacy. Rectal cancer is a scare among gay men and its because of the the misuse of it. Lesbians have to use other attachments to be able to satisfy the partner as they weren't born with the part that is meant for that. If its natural they would have what was needed for the act.

Someone has to decide who is the husband and who is the wife. In a straight couple it is pretty evident. Also, if they do have a child, they have to decide who carries the baby (its not always the wife). In a straight couple, once again its prettys straight forward.

If its something that was meant to be, there would have been no laws set against it in the first place. It would have been an automatic that marriage was for anyone that loved each other, no matter their sexual orientation.

Now on the children part. I have taken care of two little girls in the past (within the last 5 years/different families). The first one called anyone daddy because she honestly wanted a daddy extremely bad. She had a dad but he really wasn't in the picture and she wanted one of her own forever. Mom was pretty happy single so not sure if one will be in the works.

The other little girl-dad was not in the picture at at. Mom met a wonderful man and they were married. I will never forget the day that the little girl looked at me and said "Mommy and ******* are getting married and we are changing his name to daddy!" She was soooooo excited for this.

For some reason (to me) I don't see a little one being excited for another mommy or daddy. They already have that role filled by someone and need the opposite sex of the parent to fill in the role that isn't there. Two men aren't going to know how it feels for that little girl (if they had one) to get her first period. They won't be able to say "oh, I know it can be a painful time of the month" as they have never experienced a period in their live, the pain of childbirth, developing breasts, maybe taking birth control and what can come from that. Same with two lesbians that may have a son. Boys go through many changes that women can't relate to.

I know there are many single parents out there but to find a truly single one is rare. Usually there is a girl/boy friend in the picture that they child may talk to or they do have their biliogical parent of the same sex if the parents are divorced.

These are just my thoughts on the subject as they were asked. I have had gay people in my life in the past but they knew I didn't condone their lifestyle. I didn't condone other people (relatives/friends) lifestyles for things they did with their lives-drinking, drugs, other issues in their lives. I can love these people as Jesus did but he wouldn't have condoned the livestyles they lived. I'm sure there are many more things I could think of but these are just right off the top of my head.
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  #116  
Old 04-01-2013, 09:08 PM
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kids are very cruel!
but why purposely do this to them? If my kids were bullied for something and it was because of something I was doing.. I would fix it or make sure I kept my private life private.. not flaunt it and force everyone to change the way they believe!
They have enough to deal with. kids are born with abnormalities and some are overweight , too thin, wear glasses or whatever but the two mommy and 2 daddy homes are something that is done on purpose and these poor kids have to go through their whole lives defending their parents immoral behavior.

I watched a little of Rosie O'Donels gay cruise program and whenever they showed the kids faces when the adults were talking about how other people treat them, the kids looked embarrassed, ashamed and looked down a lot...they were not all standing tall and proud and defending their parents and why should they have to? When they have those gay pride parades, it's pretty disgusting .. all dressed in drag, wearing hardly any clothes. How could kids be proud of this lifestyle?

They probably secretly wish they can have a mom and dad at home. Seriously? would you want your two dads going bra shopping with you? or teaching you about your periods? well anyways I know a lot of people want to flame me now..

Just to let you know I do have a niece that is going to have a mastectomy and is going through the whole sex change ordeal.. guess what? she has a boy friend! BUT he wants to be a girl! I just don't get it...

I love her with all my heart but I will not call her by her male name.. I just can't ..this stuff makes me so sad.
This stuff makes you sad? Jeez Louise..

I'll tell you one thing, I would have rather had 2 stable daddies raise me then the crap I was raised in. My mother didn't talk to me about my period or take me bra shopping. I would have loooved a stable home. Any stable home.

I will agree with you that no one deserves to see their parents wearing next to nothing. Gay or not.
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  #117  
Old 04-01-2013, 09:33 PM
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"Looking past your religion, what are your personal issues with homosexuality? The excuse that the children will be ridiculed is not valid. I was told the same thing when I married outside of my race."

I will say "A natual thing" alot in this post. What I mean by that is if it was suppose to be a way of life, it would have already been placed into nature and be a natural way of living.

If it is a natural thing, why then hasn't it been recognized and accepted since time began? Why over time has people not been more outspoken about it and lived open lives? Why be so secretive about it if thats the way God created them? It shouldn't have shocked anyone over the thousands of years if it were a natural thing.

I was a teenager/young adult in the 80's. It seemed there were so many gay people then that you couldn't keep up with it. Everyone seemed to come out of the closet. Remember when Rock Hudson came out! I remember "pretty boys" and walking into department stores to see men at the makeup counter. Why not push for it then? Why 30 years later? If we are to be accepting of it now, why wouldn't we have been accepting of it then.

A few years ago there was a "Man" in our state having children.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...ticle-1.291001

Thats something that you really don't want to even try to explain to your children and you shouldn't have to. A homosexual couple know from the get go that they can't have a child natually and will have to have help. If it was suppose to be natural, then they would be able to try for their own children first. A straight couple won't know that till they have tried for awhile and alot of times there is an answer and they can actually have their own child from both parents.

If it is a natural thing, how about the intimate part of life? Two men are using openings that weren't made for sexual intimacy. Rectal cancer is a scare among gay men and its because of the the misuse of it. Lesbians have to use other attachments to be able to satisfy the partner as they weren't born with the part that is meant for that. If its natural they would have what was needed for the act.

Someone has to decide who is the husband and who is the wife. In a straight couple it is pretty evident. Also, if they do have a child, they have to decide who carries the baby (its not always the wife). In a straight couple, once again its prettys straight forward.

If its something that was meant to be, there would have been no laws set against it in the first place. It would have been an automatic that marriage was for anyone that loved each other, no matter their sexual orientation.

Now on the children part. I have taken care of two little girls in the past (within the last 5 years/different families). The first one called anyone daddy because she honestly wanted a daddy extremely bad. She had a dad but he really wasn't in the picture and she wanted one of her own forever. Mom was pretty happy single so not sure if one will be in the works.

The other little girl-dad was not in the picture at at. Mom met a wonderful man and they were married. I will never forget the day that the little girl looked at me and said "Mommy and ******* are getting married and we are changing his name to daddy!" She was soooooo excited for this.

For some reason (to me) I don't see a little one being excited for another mommy or daddy. They already have that role filled by someone and need the opposite sex of the parent to fill in the role that isn't there. Two men aren't going to know how it feels for that little girl (if they had one) to get her first period. They won't be able to say "oh, I know it can be a painful time of the month" as they have never experienced a period in their live, the pain of childbirth, developing breasts, maybe taking birth control and what can come from that. Same with two lesbians that may have a son. Boys go through many changes that women can't relate to.

I know there are many single parents out there but to find a truly single one is rare. Usually there is a girl/boy friend in the picture that they child may talk to or they do have their biliogical parent of the same sex if the parents are divorced.

These are just my thoughts on the subject as they were asked. I have had gay people in my life in the past but they knew I didn't condone their lifestyle. I didn't condone other people (relatives/friends) lifestyles for things they did with their lives-drinking, drugs, other issues in their lives. I can love these people as Jesus did but he wouldn't have condoned the livestyles they lived. I'm sure there are many more things I could think of but these are just right off the top of my head.
It may not be what is natura for you,but it is what is natural for them. That's what's most important. They could be in an unhappy marriage where the dad being in the closet would secretly step out on the mother with men. He could spend less time at the house while he is cheating. He could be a miserable father which "naturally" would not be good for the kids. ALl this or he could be in a happy gay marriage as described by the Academy of pediatrics. I don't care what goes into what openings as you described or who has a strap-on. YOLO. People deserve to live happy lives, and your fear of the unkown doesn't change that.
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  #118  
Old 04-01-2013, 09:44 PM
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Let me also add that straight people may also do some unnatural things in the bedroom. Its their business. I have never thought about someone's sex life in such detail. Why should it concern me?
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Country Kids View Post
"Looking past your religion, what are your personal issues with homosexuality? The excuse that the children will be ridiculed is not valid. I was told the same thing when I married outside of my race."

I will say "A natual thing" alot in this post. What I mean by that is if it was suppose to be a way of life, it would have already been placed into nature and be a natural way of living.

If it is a natural thing, why then hasn't it been recognized and accepted since time began? Why over time has people not been more outspoken about it and lived open lives? Why be so secretive about it if thats the way God created them? It shouldn't have shocked anyone over the thousands of years if it were a natural thing.

I was a teenager/young adult in the 80's. It seemed there were so many gay people then that you couldn't keep up with it. Everyone seemed to come out of the closet. Remember when Rock Hudson came out! I remember "pretty boys" and walking into department stores to see men at the makeup counter. Why not push for it then? Why 30 years later? If we are to be accepting of it now, why wouldn't we have been accepting of it then.

A few years ago there was a "Man" in our state having children.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...ticle-1.291001

Thats something that you really don't want to even try to explain to your children and you shouldn't have to. A homosexual couple know from the get go that they can't have a child natually and will have to have help. If it was suppose to be natural, then they would be able to try for their own children first. A straight couple won't know that till they have tried for awhile and alot of times there is an answer and they can actually have their own child from both parents.

If it is a natural thing, how about the intimate part of life? Two men are using openings that weren't made for sexual intimacy. Rectal cancer is a scare among gay men and its because of the the misuse of it. Lesbians have to use other attachments to be able to satisfy the partner as they weren't born with the part that is meant for that. If its natural they would have what was needed for the act.

Someone has to decide who is the husband and who is the wife. In a straight couple it is pretty evident. Also, if they do have a child, they have to decide who carries the baby (its not always the wife). In a straight couple, once again its prettys straight forward.

If its something that was meant to be, there would have been no laws set against it in the first place. It would have been an automatic that marriage was for anyone that loved each other, no matter their sexual orientation.

Now on the children part. I have taken care of two little girls in the past (within the last 5 years/different families). The first one called anyone daddy because she honestly wanted a daddy extremely bad. She had a dad but he really wasn't in the picture and she wanted one of her own forever. Mom was pretty happy single so not sure if one will be in the works.

The other little girl-dad was not in the picture at at. Mom met a wonderful man and they were married. I will never forget the day that the little girl looked at me and said "Mommy and ******* are getting married and we are changing his name to daddy!" She was soooooo excited for this.

For some reason (to me) I don't see a little one being excited for another mommy or daddy. They already have that role filled by someone and need the opposite sex of the parent to fill in the role that isn't there. Two men aren't going to know how it feels for that little girl (if they had one) to get her first period. They won't be able to say "oh, I know it can be a painful time of the month" as they have never experienced a period in their live, the pain of childbirth, developing breasts, maybe taking birth control and what can come from that. Same with two lesbians that may have a son. Boys go through many changes that women can't relate to.

I know there are many single parents out there but to find a truly single one is rare. Usually there is a girl/boy friend in the picture that they child may talk to or they do have their biliogical parent of the same sex if the parents are divorced.

These are just my thoughts on the subject as they were asked. I have had gay people in my life in the past but they knew I didn't condone their lifestyle. I didn't condone other people (relatives/friends) lifestyles for things they did with their lives-drinking, drugs, other issues in their lives. I can love these people as Jesus did but he wouldn't have condoned the livestyles they lived. I'm sure there are many more things I could think of but these are just right off the top of my head.
One last comment on this and then I am off to bed.
I have read where it was acceptable in Roman and African cultures for men to have homosexual relationships. Look it up. There may be many more. There are many groups that now have rights that have never in the history of America or our world than ever before. You say that this has never been acceptable, but tell me when in the history of the world could people of any race, religion, background etc, work, learn, and eat together in one land peacefully without a war breaking out? Here in America I can marry or be friends with anyone of any religion or race without the fear of being killed. That would not have been possible 100 years ago. The argument that this has never been socially acceptableis then also not valid. This will bring you back to your original argument which is religion. Which I am not bashing, but the purpose of your post I am sure was to show me what other than religion makes you against gay marriage.
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  #120  
Old 04-01-2013, 10:14 PM
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I don't care which side of the fence you're on regarding this issue, but it's ludicrous to use the Bible for the basis of an argument.

It outlines many MANY things that 99.9% of Christians don't agree with or abide by.

Drives me nuts when anyone of any religion picks and chooses mere parts to try to make their point while daily they're going against much of what it says themselves.

Let only those without sin cast the first stone.....
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  #121  
Old 04-01-2013, 10:18 PM
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I will agree with you on one thing...children shouldn't have to defend their parents. Perhaps if more people taught their own children to respect others, they wouldn't have to.
Holy buckets, well said.

The ability or desire to conform should have NOTHING to do with someone living a life free of harassment by others.
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  #122  
Old 04-01-2013, 10:26 PM
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There are also many children in the system that never get adopted. The "age" out of the system at 18. They are on their own with no family to go home to for the holidays, no one to laugh about old times with, and no one to call them on their birthday..........
well, maybe some people (gay and straight) need to start an "aunt or uncle" type program where kids can go to their house for the holidays and be an advocate to call or something ( I figure everyone has a a gay relative somewhere .. so it wouldn't hurt) but gay adoption? No!
These kids in the system have been through enough.

My dd had a 2 mommy couple as parents on her softball league last fall and I barely knew them but every time we saw them.. one of them kept hugging my dd and staring at her.. asking her how she is doing with a weird stare..
I am not saying all gay people are pedo's but I think something majorly wrong happened in their lives .. like not enough love from their mom or dad.
Well anyways that's just my opinion.
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  #123  
Old 04-01-2013, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Willow View Post
I don't care which side of the fence you're on regarding this issue, but it's ludicrous to use the Bible for the basis of an argument.

It outlines many MANY things that 99.9% of Christians don't agree with or abide by.

Drives me nuts when anyone of any religion picks and chooses mere parts to try to make their point while daily they're going against much of what it says themselves.

Let only those without sin cast the first stone.....
I would say your 99.9% is a little high but why not use the Bible for an argument if we believe in it?

How do you know I'm going against much of what it says or even what my believe system is? One, I never said I was perfect but try to do the best in what I was taught and believe in. Two, it was asked it I believe Gays should be married and I gave what I believe in and what my personal opinion is.

Sounds like both were wrong answers of course. Was I shocked-no, expected yes.

The AAP gives what an answer (mans views) and its a right answer. Someone says what the Bible states and its wrong.

I live in a pretty libriel state but its not passing here either. It should tell you that when a state as big as CA doesn't pass it, the people have spoken, they don't want it!

Why do we even have to vote on it and cause such a stir? If its wanted that badly and SO many people want it, why isn't it just made a law? Many things are passed without voters approval, so why not this?
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  #124  
Old 04-01-2013, 10:38 PM
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I am not saying all gay people are pedo's but I think something majorly wrong happened in their lives .. like not enough love from their mom or dad.
Wrong!

1) Most pedophiles aren't gay. They are straight men.

2) People don't turn gay from not enough love from their parents.

Pedophiles and gay/lesbian are two completely different things. One is a predator adult who victimizes children. The other is a relationship between two consenting adults.
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  #125  
Old 04-01-2013, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Country Kids View Post
"Looking past your religion, what are your personal issues with homosexuality? The excuse that the children will be ridiculed is not valid. I was told the same thing when I married outside of my race."

I will say "A natual thing" alot in this post. What I mean by that is if it was suppose to be a way of life, it would have already been placed into nature and be a natural way of living.

If it is a natural thing, why then hasn't it been recognized and accepted since time began? Why over time has people not been more outspoken about it and lived open lives? Why be so secretive about it if thats the way God created them? It shouldn't have shocked anyone over the thousands of years if it were a natural thing.

I was a teenager/young adult in the 80's. It seemed there were so many gay people then that you couldn't keep up with it. Everyone seemed to come out of the closet. Remember when Rock Hudson came out! I remember "pretty boys" and walking into department stores to see men at the makeup counter. Why not push for it then? Why 30 years later? If we are to be accepting of it now, why wouldn't we have been accepting of it then.

A few years ago there was a "Man" in our state having children.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...ticle-1.291001

Thats something that you really don't want to even try to explain to your children and you shouldn't have to. A homosexual couple know from the get go that they can't have a child natually and will have to have help. If it was suppose to be natural, then they would be able to try for their own children first. A straight couple won't know that till they have tried for awhile and alot of times there is an answer and they can actually have their own child from both parents.

If it is a natural thing, how about the intimate part of life? Two men are using openings that weren't made for sexual intimacy. Rectal cancer is a scare among gay men and its because of the the misuse of it. Lesbians have to use other attachments to be able to satisfy the partner as they weren't born with the part that is meant for that. If its natural they would have what was needed for the act.

Someone has to decide who is the husband and who is the wife. In a straight couple it is pretty evident. Also, if they do have a child, they have to decide who carries the baby (its not always the wife). In a straight couple, once again its prettys straight forward.

If its something that was meant to be, there would have been no laws set against it in the first place. It would have been an automatic that marriage was for anyone that loved each other, no matter their sexual orientation.

Now on the children part. I have taken care of two little girls in the past (within the last 5 years/different families). The first one called anyone daddy because she honestly wanted a daddy extremely bad. She had a dad but he really wasn't in the picture and she wanted one of her own forever. Mom was pretty happy single so not sure if one will be in the works.

The other little girl-dad was not in the picture at at. Mom met a wonderful man and they were married. I will never forget the day that the little girl looked at me and said "Mommy and ******* are getting married and we are changing his name to daddy!" She was soooooo excited for this.

For some reason (to me) I don't see a little one being excited for another mommy or daddy. They already have that role filled by someone and need the opposite sex of the parent to fill in the role that isn't there. Two men aren't going to know how it feels for that little girl (if they had one) to get her first period. They won't be able to say "oh, I know it can be a painful time of the month" as they have never experienced a period in their live, the pain of childbirth, developing breasts, maybe taking birth control and what can come from that. Same with two lesbians that may have a son. Boys go through many changes that women can't relate to.

I know there are many single parents out there but to find a truly single one is rare. Usually there is a girl/boy friend in the picture that they child may talk to or they do have their biliogical parent of the same sex if the parents are divorced.

These are just my thoughts on the subject as they were asked. I have had gay people in my life in the past but they knew I didn't condone their lifestyle. I didn't condone other people (relatives/friends) lifestyles for things they did with their lives-drinking, drugs, other issues in their lives. I can love these people as Jesus did but he wouldn't have condoned the livestyles they lived. I'm sure there are many more things I could think of but these are just right off the top of my head.
wow well said.. I also wanted to touch on this very obvious physiological fact of just be the sex that you were born with and find the mate that "fits" your body!
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  #126  
Old 04-01-2013, 10:40 PM
Willow Willow is offline
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well, maybe some people (gay and straight) need to start an "aunt or uncle" type program where kids can go to their house for the holidays and be an advocate to call or something ( I figure everyone has a a gay relative somewhere .. so it wouldn't hurt) but gay adoption? No!
These kids in the system have been through enough.

My dd had a 2 mommy couple as parents on her softball league last fall and I barely knew them but every time we saw them.. one of them kept hugging my dd and staring at her.. asking her how she is doing with a weird stare..
I am not saying all gay people are pedo's but I think something majorly wrong happened in their lives .. like not enough love from their mom or dad.
Well anyways that's just my opinion.
That's one of the saddest and sickest things I've ever read.

Homosexuality isn't the result of trauma. It is inherent, just as your heterosexuality is.

If you want to deny what science has proven that's fine, but it is indeed fact.


A sibling pair I fostered for was adopted by a lesbian couple, they ate seriously some of the best patents I know. At the time they'd already adopted close to a dozen children out of the system? Although I consider myself an exceptional parent they had it more together with their giant family than I ever have had with my small one.


Don't paint them all with the same brush. It's really not any more fair than saying all men in heterosexual relationships are abusive and dangerous based on a dcd staying a little longer at drop off than might be necessary....
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  #127  
Old 04-01-2013, 10:42 PM
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Wrong!

1) Most pedophiles aren't gay. They are straight men.

2) People don't turn gay from not enough love from their parents.

Pedophiles and gay/lesbian are two completely different things. One is a predator adult who victimizes children. The other is a relationship between two consenting adults.
I know that!
I was just saying that "this" woman was always trying to hug my daughter and talk to her and I didn't want her to because I think I can choose who can talk to and touch my 9 year old daughter.. and by the way there are pedophiles that are women too!
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  #128  
Old 04-01-2013, 10:57 PM
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Natural?
Actually, some same-sex birds do do it. So do beetles, sheep, fruit bats, dolphins, and orangutans. Zoologists are discovering that homosexual and bisexual activity is not unknown within the animal kingdom.
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  #129  
Old 04-01-2013, 10:58 PM
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and by the way there are pedophiles that are women too!
That is why I said MOST are straight men.
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  #130  
Old 04-01-2013, 10:58 PM
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CK - why not use the Bible to support a single argument? I suppose you can, just like I can then turn around and use it to peg you and your life as "wrong" in 100's of other ways.

The level of hypocrisy in Christianity has never ceased to amaze me. This countries Christians have plenty to say about governing marriage, abortion and sexual orientation....but who in that group has never taken a birth control pill? Held a job outside the home? Had intercourse outside of procreation purposes? Has premarital sex? Slept in the same bed as their spouse while they were having a period? Broke ANY of the 10 commandments?

Last I was aware sin was sin. God never had a conversation about level of sin, or about giving us as His followers the right to judge each other.

Doesn't it say smack dab in the same book several of you are using to defend your bias that only HE is the one allowed to hold such opinions - of anyone?

I never read any sort of disclaimer pre Genesis that said the Bible was a multiple choice choose your own adventure type book.....if it doesn't all apply then what's to say the parts you're arguing are valid do? Or any parts at all for that matter??
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:07 PM
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That's one of the saddest and sickest things I've ever read.
I have to stop reading this thread.
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  #132  
Old 04-01-2013, 11:10 PM
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CK - why not use the Bible to support a single argument? I suppose you can, just like I can then turn around and use it to peg you and your life as "wrong" in 100's of other ways.

The level of hypocrisy in Christianity has never ceased to amaze me. This countries Christians have plenty to say about governing marriage, abortion and sexual orientation....but who in that group has never taken a birth control pill? Held a job outside the home? Had intercourse outside of procreation purposes? Has premarital sex? Slept in the same bed as their spouse while they were having a period? Broke ANY of the 10 commandments?

Last I was aware sin was sin. God never had a conversation about level of sin, or about giving us as His followers the right to judge each other.

Doesn't it say smack dab in the same book several of you are using to defend your bias that only HE is the one allowed to hold such opinions - of anyone?

I never read any sort of disclaimer pre Genesis that said the Bible was a multiple choice choose your own adventure type book.....if it doesn't all apply then what's to say the parts you're arguing are valid do? Or any parts at all for that matter??
Well said
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Old 04-02-2013, 05:03 AM
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This is disgusting. I can just about wrap my mind about what the issue is. Just admit that you are disgusted by homosexuals. Besides the obvious religious talk, you're just disgusted by homosexuals. Going into great details about what happens in their bedroom and throwing out hurtful stigmas and stereotypes like they got that way from trauma or they want your daughter. We have to protect our children and be on the lookout for anyone that may harm them sure..but that just rubbed me the wrong way. And preferring that children have gay aunt and uncle programs instead a real home? This is ludicrous. It is very sad. I feel for any LGBT person reading this page right now. My eyes tear up for you because I can only imagine what it feels like. I am embarrased that people would openly say some of the ignorant things that they say, but I am vindicated in the fact that I got no response which leads me to believe that I stumped you. Just another example of followers using the bible to spread a message of bigotry.
I myself think the sin of glutton is disgusting! People putting unnatural amounts of food in their bodies. Stretching their bodies out in sick ways...Pooping unnatural amounts of poop out of all kinds of openings. It sickens me,and you know they only got that way because they were molested. Yeah it makes them eat, so you better watch your kids because molested people molest others. I'm not gonna go against my bible! Obese people will have their day in hell for their sins! I don't think kids should be with fat people because they'll get fat and then they'll get made fun of. I think they should just have an assigned fat person to call them on their birthday.
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Old 04-02-2013, 05:21 AM
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I too have to stop reading this thread.

Aunt or uncle program instead of adoption?

These kids have been through enough?

Michelle, there is having a respectful, different opinion and then there is just being ludicrous.

Good luck with that.
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Old 04-02-2013, 05:27 AM
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I too have to stop reading this thread.

Aunt or uncle program instead of adoption?

These kids have been through enough?

Michelle, there is having a respectful, different opinion and then there is just being ludicrous.

Good luck with that.
My thoughts exactly.
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Old 04-02-2013, 05:33 AM
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This is disgusting. I can just about wrap my mind about what the issue is. Just admit that you are disgusted by homosexuals. Besides the obvious religious talk, you're just disgusted by homosexuals. Going into great details about what happens in their bedroom and throwing out hurtful stigmas and stereotypes like they got that way from trauma or they want your daughter. We have to protect our children and be on the lookout for anyone that may harm them sure..but that just rubbed me the wrong way. And preferring that children have gay aunt and uncle programs instead a real home? This is ludicrous. It is very sad. I feel for any LGBT person reading this page right now. My eyes tear up for you because I can only imagine what it feels like. I am embarrased that people would openly say some of the ignorant things that they say, but I am vindicated in the fact that I got no response which leads me to believe that I stumped you. Just another example of followers using the bible to spread a message of bigotry.
I myself think the sin of glutton is disgusting! People putting unnatural amounts of food in their bodies. Stretching their bodies out in sick ways...Pooping unnatural amounts of poop out of all kinds of openings. It sickens me,and you know they only got that way because they were molested. Yeah it makes them eat, so you better watch your kids because molested people molest others. I'm not gonna go against my bible! Obese people will have their day in hell for their sins! I don't think kids should be with fat people because they'll get fat and then they'll get made fun of. I think they should just have an assigned fat person to call them on their birthday.
My point is to say that if you truly thought all sin was equal you would be repulsed in the same way by gluttony. If not then you know how ridiculous some of these arguments are.
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:57 AM
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I guess I read what she said differently. I agree with what you said above but I also believe that God does not have to be included in a marriage to make it legal.
I agree with you too, it would obvious not be a religious marriage, but yes a legal marriage.
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:05 AM
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Leviticus 18:22
"Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin." (NLT)
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:11 AM
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Leviticus 18:22
"Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin." (NLT)
Gluttony, slavery, marry your rapist, don't eat pork, separate yourself for the week of and week after your period... Genesis-Revelations
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:15 AM
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Leviticus 18:22
"Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin." (NLT)
You also have no place to preach to me. I will ask my husband what he thinks.

I Corinthians 14:34-35:
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.


Or do we just ignore this one and skip right back to Leviticus?
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:17 AM
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I completely understand what you are saying but it is a two way street isn't it?

I'm guessing that "some of the people who who fight so hard for tolerance" (as you say) may have been told that they will go to hell, or that their marriage doesn't count as legitimate because they weren't married in a certain type of building, or feel judged by many Christians because they are single and chose to have a child, or because they married outside of their ethnicity, or had their child's funeral picketted, or because they are gay or lesbian.

I live my life in a way that conforms to most Christian standards but there is absolutely no way I would ever affiliate myself with the Christians. For me it is the judgmental hypocrisy that sends me screaming in the opposite direction.
I say let any two adults who love each other marry if they want to. It doesn't take anything away from my marriage at all. Share the love.
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:22 AM
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I completely understand what you are saying but it is a two way street isn't it?

I'm guessing that "some of the people who who fight so hard for tolerance" (as you say) may have been told that they will go to hell, or that their marriage doesn't count as legitimate because they weren't married in a certain type of building, or feel judged by many Christians because they are single and chose to have a child, or because they married outside of their ethnicity, or had their child's funeral picketted, or because they are gay or lesbian.

I live my life in a way that conforms to most Christian standards but there is absolutely no way I would ever affiliate myself with the Christians. For me it is the judgmental hypocrisy that sends me screaming in the opposite direction.

I say let any two adults who love each other marry if they want to. It doesn't take anything away from my marriage at all. Share the love.

Ever watched the documentary titled, "Lord, save me from your followers.?" It is a beautiful movie about how the followers preach a radical message of hate and cause people to steer clear of the church. In it a pastor goes to a gay parade and apologizes to all of the gay people for all of the hurtful things they have had to endure. It brought me to tears. Many of them wanted a relationship with God, but had been treated so badly that they never wanted to step foot in a church again.
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:23 AM
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You also have no place to preach to me. I will ask my husband what he thinks.

I Corinthians 14:34-35:
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.


Or do we just ignore this one and skip right back to Leviticus?
And? I know many religions that this is still practiced in.

Many woman do ask their husband/have discussions for issues they don't understand. I can think of several families like this in my area.

Also, we aren't in the church when we are discussing it here.
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:25 AM
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And? I know many religions that this is still practiced in.

Many woman do ask their husband/have discussions for issues they don't understand. I can think of several families like this in my area.
Is it implemented in your home? Why are you here preaching the gospel then? It is clearly written in the scripture that you have no place.
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:26 AM
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Contradiction and hypocrisy.
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:28 AM
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Is it implemented in your home? Why are you here preaching the gospel then? It is clearly written in the scripture that you have no place.

See my answer above. Every Sunday and throughout the week my husband and I do have discussions on things that were spoke of at church.

Also, there were woman in the Bible that spoke the word and discussed it.
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:29 AM
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And? I know many religions that this is still practiced in.

Many woman do ask their husband/have discussions for issues they don't understand. I can think of several families like this in my area.

Also, we aren't in the church when we are discussing it here.
Do you overeat?
Would you enter into a forced married with your rapist?
Do you eat Christmas ham, pork chops, or bacon?
Would you release your slave at the agreed upon age as written in the scripture?
Do you cover your hair in the sanctuary?
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:30 AM
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....Seems to me there may be a few posters who may need to take a step back and take a breather.....

This discussion is NOT going to solve the issues and I surely don't want to see what has been a wonderfully intellectual and mature debate turn ugly.....
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:31 AM
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My feelings on the subject can be summed up in four words.

Live and let live.


That's pretty much my life philosophy....
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:32 AM
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....Seems to me there may be a few posters who may need to take a step back and take a breather.....

This discussion is NOT going to solve the issues and I surely don't want to see what has been a wonderfully intellectual and mature debate turn ugly.....
Sorry BC!

Will take a step back-:Sunny:
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:34 AM
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....Seems to me there may be a few posters who may need to take a step back and take a breather.....

This discussion is NOT going to solve the issues and I surely don't want to see what has been a wonderfully intellectual and mature debate turn ugly.....
I don't think it will turn sour. I am not here to attack anyone's religion. It just hurts me to see some of the terrible things that were written and all written in the name of Jesus. I hate it when people use religion to cover their own hateful feelings. I'd much rather have someone say that they are disgusted. I have had the scripture used against me for many reasons in my life. I've had ugly things said to me in the name of Jesus, but I knew that they were just using the bible as an excuse. Would Jesus wait in line at Chick-fil-a for 2 hours to get a sandwich just to rub it in the face of a gay person or would he be mentoring and loving that person during those 2 hours?
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:35 AM
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LOL...My sister is gay. She and her partner have two children, 17 and 15. Both of the kids when to stellar private schools (oddly enough, Catholic High School) and no one cared that they have two moms, not even the nuns.

Both kids are doing great. My niece just got a $38,000 scholarshipr for college next year. They have tons of friends, play in sports, and have two parents who adore them. My sister and her partner are both lawyers (they own their own firm) and my sister is a law professor. At the moment, they are in Paris...

I will agree with you on one thing...children shouldn't have to defend their parents. Perhaps if more people taught their own children to respect others, they wouldn't have to.
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:35 AM
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Contradiction and hypocrisy.
It's far easier to manipulate religion to suit oneself than it is to acknowledge or adhere to it in it's true and actual form.

If people did most of this conversation would have never taken place.
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:39 AM
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LOL...My sister is gay. She and her partner have two children, 17 and 15. Both of the kids when to stellar private schools (oddly enough, Catholic High School) and no one cared that they have two moms, not even the nuns.

Both kids are doing great. My niece just got a $38,000 scholarshipr for college next year. They have tons of friends, play in sports, and have two parents who adore them. My sister and her partner are both lawyers (they own their own firm) and my sister is a law professor. At the moment, they are in Paris...

I will agree with you on one thing...children shouldn't have to defend their parents. Perhaps if more people taught their own children to respect others, they wouldn't have to.
Love this I have said it time and time again there is good and bad in all different types of people. I don't think evil discriminates- This is not evil, this is Love and God said........Love one another- I know many gay couples that have been together longer then most marriages! Just as there are extravagant straight people there are those people that are gay and are extravagant. Live and let live- I care for a gay couples children and they are the best parents and people and the kids love the parents with all their hearts. Love them-

I have to agree that I think fear not religion makes a person against gay people or puts up the debate about what true marriage is.
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:45 AM
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This is disgusting. I can just about wrap my mind about what the issue is. Just admit that you are disgusted by homosexuals. Besides the obvious religious talk, you're just disgusted by homosexuals. Going into great details about what happens in their bedroom and throwing out hurtful stigmas and stereotypes like they got that way from trauma or they want your daughter. We have to protect our children and be on the lookout for anyone that may harm them sure..but that just rubbed me the wrong way. And preferring that children have gay aunt and uncle programs instead a real home? This is ludicrous. It is very sad. I feel for any LGBT person reading this page right now. My eyes tear up for you because I can only imagine what it feels like. I am embarrased that people would openly say some of the ignorant things that they say, but I am vindicated in the fact that I got no response which leads me to believe that I stumped you. Just another example of followers using the bible to spread a message of bigotry.
I myself think the sin of glutton is disgusting! People putting unnatural amounts of food in their bodies. Stretching their bodies out in sick ways...Pooping unnatural amounts of poop out of all kinds of openings. It sickens me,and you know they only got that way because they were molested. Yeah it makes them eat, so you better watch your kids because molested people molest others. I'm not gonna go against my bible! Obese people will have their day in hell for their sins! I don't think kids should be with fat people because they'll get fat and then they'll get made fun of. I think they should just have an assigned fat person to call them on their birthday.
Oh my! You got pretty riled up there, lady. I agree, but wow! (I assume you're using the "fat" people as a raw, gritty metaphor)
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:47 AM
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Oh my! You got pretty riled up there, lady. I agree, but wow! (I assume you're using the "fat" people as a raw, gritty metaphor)
Lol. Most definitely. I hoped everyone would see that, but I think it is a pretty good comparison if sin is sin..
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:47 AM
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I don't care which side of the fence you're on regarding this issue, but it's ludicrous to use the Bible for the basis of an argument.

It outlines many MANY things that 99.9% of Christians don't agree with or abide by.

Drives me nuts when anyone of any religion picks and chooses mere parts to try to make their point while daily they're going against much of what it says themselves.

Let only those without sin cast the first stone.....
yes yes and yes
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:49 AM
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I have mulled over posting on this thread but something in the back of my mind keeps bring this up and reading it.

I am a Christian and strive on a daily basis to follow the Lord and do what I feel is right.

Gay marriage I feel is not right and was not instituted to be between two people of the same sex. It is to be between a man and a woman. There are many,many places in the BIBLE that says this. No where does it say its ok for to people of the same sex to be married. No where-whether legal or not.

Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because of the homosexuality going on in the city for one of the bigger examples in the BIBLE. It talks on how it is wrong in the New Testament as well. It is condemed throughout the entire Bible.

If God wanted people of the same sex to be married/together, I feel thats who he would have put on the earth first-not a man and a woman. If he had put to people on the earth of the same sex, guess what there would have been no more population! It would have stopped right there.

I also do not like how churches are suddenly OK with the whole issue because of the fear they are being put through. Nothing has changed in the BIBLE, its still the same now as it was in the beginning. I feel sometimes Christians go along with the flow because we are tired of the fight. We also, have had many things taken away from us but if we go against the grain we are instantly "Haters".

God doesn't make something that he considers "sinful". We all have choices in how we live our life. We have a right choice and a wrong choice. We have a choice to commit sin or not.

No where in the Bible does it say you have to be married in a church building to be considered married. This is again something that has been added to different religions. In fact there were no Church Buildings in the Bible. The church is actually the body of people that attend the church-the assembly. So to say you aren't married unless married in the church is not even correct. Saying you aren't married unless you were to be married in the church building would be correct. I find no mention of where a person is to be married in order to be considered married. In the BIBLE, Christians met in homes of each other and some do that to this day.

Alot is taken away and added to the Bible by man to make life easier for us. God did take quiet a bit away himself from the Old Testament to the New Testament. Because I believe something is wrong because of my faith doesn't make me a hater. Every day I see things that are wrong in our world that are slowly becoming the norm and at the end of the day, I have to look back and think did I do everything I could to make this a better world the way I was taught, raised and believe in.
I too have been mulling over posting on this thread but wasn't quite sure how to put my thoughts into words. Very well said CK!!
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:52 AM
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It's far easier to manipulate religion to suit oneself than it is to acknowledge or adhere to it in it's true and actual form.

If people did most of this conversation would have never taken place.
The saddest part is that I am not even a christian. I believe religion can be good. It encourages people to love, help[, and be better people. On the other hand when religion is bad it can be very evil. I have had some great christians and Muslims in my life. They were loving without judgement. One was there when I gave birth to my first child at the age of 16. I love her. I know what Sister Sally believes, but she loves me and if anyone could convert me to Christianity it would be her. I worked with 2 Muslim ladies at my first job. They would go in the closet several times a day and pray. they never judged me. They brought me food every day for lunch. If anyone good convert me to Islam it would be these 2 Muslim ladies..not the people in line at Chick-fil-a waiting for hours. Religion is about love and peace. You can't convert gay people, but love is the way to get your message across.
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:55 AM
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Leviticus 18:22
"Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin." (NLT)
http://livelonger.hubpages.com/hub/l...-homosexuality
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:03 AM
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I don't think it will turn sour. I am not here to attack anyone's religion. It just hurts me to see some of the terrible things that were written and all written in the name of Jesus. I hate it when people use religion to cover their own hateful feelings. I'd much rather have someone say that they are disgusted. I have had the scripture used against me for many reasons in my life. I've had ugly things said to me in the name of Jesus, but I knew that they were just using the bible as an excuse. Would Jesus wait in line at Chick-fil-a for 2 hours to get a sandwich just to rub it in the face of a gay person or would he be mentoring and loving that person during those 2 hours?
Just because people don't agree with their lifestlye doesn't mean that they hate them....
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:03 AM
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Leviticus 18:22
"Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin." (NLT)
Luke 6: 37
1 Corinthians 4: 4
Matthew 7: 1-4
Galatians 5: 14
Romans 2: 1-3

I could go on and on here.....

Again, believe what you want to believe, but don't hide behind the Bible saying homosexuals deserve your judgement when that very book says it is just as sinful to make such assertions about others.
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:15 AM
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Religion is about love and peace.
I disagree. I get what you are trying to say but no where in the definition of religion are the words love and peace.

As a matter of fact, most religious stories and situations are anything but peaceful and/or about love.


re·li·gion noun \ri-ˈli-jən\

Definition of RELIGION

1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion>

b(1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance

2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices

3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness

4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:16 AM
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Just because people don't agree with their lifestlye doesn't mean that they hate them....
You don't have to agree with it. I myself can't quite understand homosexuality, but denying someone a civil right is a message of hate.
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:19 AM
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I disagree. I get what you are trying to say but no where in the definition of religion are the words love and peace.

As a matter of fact, most religious stories and situations are anything but peaceful and/or about love.


re·li·gion noun \ri-ˈli-jən\

Definition of RELIGION

1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion>

b(1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance

2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices

3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness

4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
Is it stated this way in the bible? How was it described by Jesus? love one another. Religions stop a lot of people from doing a lot of bad things. It aso causes radicals to do a lot of bad things. In my eyes as an atheist the benefits of religion are love. How would Jesus want you to spread his good word. It is easier to show love and compassion. You catch more bees with honey.
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:23 AM
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I disagree. I get what you are trying to say but no where in the definition of religion are the words love and peace.

As a matter of fact, most religious stories and situations are anything but peaceful and/or about love.


re·li·gion noun \ri-ˈli-jən\

Definition of RELIGION

1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion>

b(1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance

2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices

3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness

4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
It is also my opinion that Jesus would rather have his message spread through love and compassion just as he showed the adulterous woman that day. Is jesus against adultery? Yes. He showed her love and compassion. He caught her with honey, and she became a sidekick of his.
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:25 AM
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You don't have to agree with it. I myself can't quite understand homosexuality, but denying someone a civil right is a message of hate.
I disagree...
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:29 AM
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I disagree...
And why is that? What message do you think it sends? At the very least, it's discrimination and that is hateful.

Can't.stay.away.
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:35 AM
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You don't have to agree with it. I myself can't quite understand homosexuality, but denying someone a civil right is a message of hate.
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:40 AM
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So should a church be forced to perform same-sex marriages if it goes against that churches belief system? Will churches be charged with hate crimes if they do not perform a religious marriage ceremony for a union they do not believe is marriage?
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:57 AM
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So should a church be forced to perform same-sex marriages if it goes against that churches belief system? Will churches be charged with hate crimes if they do not perform a religious marriage ceremony for a union they do not believe is marriage?
Who said that?
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:02 AM
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So should a church be forced to perform same-sex marriages if it goes against that churches belief system? Will churches be charged with hate crimes if they do not perform a religious marriage ceremony for a union they do not believe is marriage?
No. who would want to spend their special day somewhere they are not wanted? no one who is serious about equality and respects their mate and themselves would do that.
There is no way gay marriage is infringing on anyone else's rights. Let's not make it out to be that way.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:03 AM
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I don't think it will turn sour. I am not here to attack anyone's religion. It just hurts me to see some of the terrible things that were written and all written in the name of Jesus. I hate it when people use religion to cover their own hateful feelings. I'd much rather have someone say that they are disgusted. I have had the scripture used against me for many reasons in my life. I've had ugly things said to me in the name of Jesus, but I knew that they were just using the bible as an excuse. Would Jesus wait in line at Chick-fil-a for 2 hours to get a sandwich just to rub it in the face of a gay person or would he be mentoring and loving that person during those 2 hours?
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Just because people don't agree with their lifestlye doesn't mean that they hate them....
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You don't have to agree with it. I myself can't quite understand homosexuality, but denying someone a civil right is a message of hate.
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I disagree...
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Originally Posted by CedarCreek View Post
And why is that? What message do you think it sends? At the very least, it's discrimination and that is hateful.

Can't.stay.away.
Binkybobo stated that "I hate it when people use religion to cover their own hateful feelings". She is making some pretty big assumptions and generalizations. My point is that just because I do not agree with homosexuality does not mean that I hate people who are homosexual.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:06 AM
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Binkybobo stated that "I hate it when people use religion to cover their own hateful feelings". She is making some pretty big assumptions and generalizations. My point is that just because I do not agree with homosexuality does not mean that I hate people who are homosexual.

So you're point is that you support gay marriage?
People can tell me how much they love a certain group of people all they want. I've been told that all my life. I will not go into detail because this is about gay rights. Actions speak volumes. I am not even sure what your stance is. I am responding to the way religion is used to hurt. I guess I will have to go through your posts and see why you in particular feel attacked.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:11 AM
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And why is that? What message do you think it sends? At the very least, it's discrimination and that is hateful.

Can't.stay.away.
I'm right here with you I'm just trying not to comment because I know I can't change anyone's mind about this issue and I will end up saying something I regret. The arguments are always the same, important questions are constantly evaded, parts of the bible are quoted, scientific evidence is presented and the argument goes on and on. Take solace in the fact that there are more people on this board that are for gay marriage than against and that number is growing in our population as well.
Several of my college classmates were gay. Some of them didn't come out until after college because of fear.
My neighbor's dad is gay. He didn't come out until they were grown. I imagine because of fear.
This is a personal issue for me. I have a gay sister. She tried to pretend she wasn't and was in relationships with males (one relationship resulted in a son) but she finally came out. She was scared and tried to conform but couldn't. She's in the Navy. She fights for the freedoms of people who stand against her freedoms and sacrifices so much on a daily basis.
I never want to make someone go through their life being fearful. I would hate myself.
I believe in God. My God is kind, forgiving, loving and a joker (he made things like Flamingos and Platypus'). I think about this angry, vengeful God that some worship and I know I could never do that. If in my end days I found out that the angry God was it and that I was on the wrong side of the issue of homosexuality I would gladly go to hell.
I mentioned that my church has a gay pastor. My son's church is also progressive and accepting. His church is the "go to" place for all of the high school/college kids. The younger generation has this covered. I doubt this will even be an issue with my great grand-kids, maybe that's when we should have the marijuana debate. Then again the new pope is progressive and has called for peace..It will be interesting to see where that goes.
Eventually some of the people on this board will change their minds, some may decide it's wrong but most likely more will switch to acceptance. They will do it on their own time as some life circumstance effects them but will never change because they were given the facts. The facts have been out there forever and I've never heard anyone, no matter how good the argument is, end a debate on gay marriage by saying "Holy cow, you're right!"
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:18 AM
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Binkybobo stated that "I hate it when people use religion to cover their own hateful feelings". She is making some pretty big assumptions and generalizations. My point is that just because I do not agree with homosexuality does not mean that I hate people who are homosexual.
I asked what message you thought it sent to deny a civil right. Not about you and binkys squabble.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:21 AM
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I'm right here with you I'm just trying not to comment because I know I can't change anyone's mind about this issue and I will end up saying something I regret. The arguments are always the same, important questions are constantly evaded, parts of the bible are quoted, scientific evidence is presented and the argument goes on and on. Take solace in the fact that there are more people on this board that are for gay marriage than against and that number is growing in our population as well.
Several of my college classmates were gay. Some of them didn't come out until after college because of fear.
My neighbor's dad is gay. He didn't come out until they were grown. I imagine because of fear.
This is a personal issue for me. I have a gay sister. She tried to pretend she wasn't and was in relationships with males (one relationship resulted in a son) but she finally came out. She was scared and tried to conform but couldn't. She's in the Navy. She fights for the freedoms of people who stand against her freedoms and sacrifices so much on a daily basis.
I never want to make someone go through their life being fearful. I would hate myself.
I believe in God. My God is kind, forgiving, loving and a joker (he made things like Flamingos and Platypus'). I think about this angry, vengeful God that some worship and I know I could never do that. If in my end days I found out that the angry God was it and that I was on the wrong side of the issue of homosexuality I would gladly go to hell.
I mentioned that my church has a gay pastor. My son's church is also progressive and accepting. His church is the "go to" place for all of the high school/college kids. The younger generation has this covered. I doubt this will even be an issue with my great grand-kids, maybe that's when we should have the marijuana debate. Then again the new pope is progressive and has called for peace..It will be interesting to see where that goes.
Eventually some of the people on this board will change their minds, some may decide it's wrong but most likely more will switch to acceptance. They will do it on their own time as some life circumstance effects them but will never change because they were given the facts. The facts have been out there forever and I've never heard anyone, no matter how good the argument is, end a debate on gay marriage by saying "Holy cow, you're right!"
You're totally right.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:22 AM
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I'm done beating this dead horse. My stick just broke. if anyone has anything new and life changing to say email me so I get a notification.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:22 AM
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That's one of the saddest and sickest things I've ever read.

Homosexuality isn't the result of trauma. It is inherent, just as your heterosexuality is.

If you want to deny what science has proven that's fine, but it is indeed fact.


A sibling pair I fostered for was adopted by a lesbian couple, they ate seriously some of the best patents I know. At the time they'd already adopted close to a dozen children out of the system? Although I consider myself an exceptional parent they had it more together with their giant family than I ever have had with my small one.


Don't paint them all with the same brush. It's really not any more fair than saying all men in heterosexual relationships are abusive and dangerous based on a dcd staying a little longer at drop off than might be necessary....


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So should a church be forced to perform same-sex marriages if it goes against that churches belief system? Will churches be charged with hate crimes if they do not perform a religious marriage ceremony for a union they do not believe is marriage?
Read through the posts, its been said by people that support it that the church should have the option and choose if they do or don't allow it.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:33 AM
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CK - why not use the Bible to support a single argument? I suppose you can, just like I can then turn around and use it to peg you and your life as "wrong" in 100's of other ways.

The level of hypocrisy in Christianity has never ceased to amaze me. This countries Christians have plenty to say about governing marriage, abortion and sexual orientation....but who in that group has never taken a birth control pill? Held a job outside the home? Had intercourse outside of procreation purposes? Has premarital sex? Slept in the same bed as their spouse while they were having a period? Broke ANY of the 10 commandments?

Last I was aware sin was sin. God never had a conversation about level of sin, or about giving us as His followers the right to judge each other.

Doesn't it say smack dab in the same book several of you are using to defend your bias that only HE is the one allowed to hold such opinions - of anyone?

I never read any sort of disclaimer pre Genesis that said the Bible was a multiple choice choose your own adventure type book.....if it doesn't all apply then what's to say the parts you're arguing are valid do? Or any parts at all for that matter??
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:35 AM
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So you're point is that you support gay marriage?
People can tell me how much they love a certain group of people all they want. I've been told that all my life. I will not go into detail because this is about gay rights. Actions speak volumes. I am not even sure what your stance is. I am responding to the way religion is used to hurt. I guess I will have to go through your posts and see why you in particular feel attacked.
I never said I felt attacked......
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:37 AM
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Academy of Pediatrics supports gay marriage.
Exerpt below:

The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) supports civil marriage for same-gender couples – as well as full adoption and foster care rights for all parents, regardless of sexual orientation – as the best way to guarantee benefits and security for their children.



The AAP policy statement, “Promoting the Well-Being of Children Whose Parents Are Gay or Lesbian,” and an accompanying technical report will be published in the April 2013 Pediatrics (published online March 21).



“Children thrive in families that are stable and that provide permanent security, and the way we do that is through marriage,” said Benjamin Siegel, MD, FAAP, chair of the AAP Committee on Psychosocial Aspects of Child and Family Health, and a co-author of the policy statement. “The AAP believes there should be equal opportunity for every couple to access the economic stability and federal supports provided to married couples to raise children.”



In a previous policy statement published in 2002 and reaffirmed in 2010, the AAP supported second-parent adoption by partners of the same sex as a way to protect children’s right to maintain relationships with both parents, eligibility for health benefits and financial security. The 2013 policy statement and accompanying technical report adds recommendations in support of civil marriage for same-gender couples; adoption by single parents, co-parents or second parents regardless of sexual orientation; and foster care placement regardless of sexual orientation.



“The AAP has long been an advocate for all children, and this updated policy reflects a natural progression in the Academy’s support for families,” said Ellen Perrin, MD, FAAP, co-author of the policy statement. “If a child has two loving and capable parents who choose to create a permanent bond, it’s in the best interest of their children that legal institutions allow them to do so.”



A great deal of scientific research documents there is no cause-and-effect relationship between parents’ sexual orientation and children’s well-being, according to the AAP policy. In fact, many studies attest to the normal development of children of same-gender couples when the child is wanted, the parents have a commitment to shared parenting, and the parents have strong social and economic support. Critical factors that affect the normal development and mental health of children are parental stress, economic and social stability, community resources, discrimination, and children’s exposure to toxic stressors at home or in their communities -- not the sexual orientation of their parents.



According to the policy statement, the AAP “supports pediatricians advocating for public policies that help all children and their parents, regardless of sexual orientation, build and maintain strong, stable, and healthy families that are able to meet the needs of their children.”




What is unfair about any of that?
Another quote I saw earlier states that Marriage predates Christianity, so Christianity should not be able to define it.
Looking past your religion, what are your personal issues with homosexuality? The excuse that the children will be ridiculed is not valid. I was told the same thing when I married outside of my race. I was asked how it would make the church family feel? What would my children go through? I have been happily married for 9 years. My children are happiy alive. It's my life, and my happiness.
I don't , I can't expect for you to understand why that is unfair for me. Looking passed my religion? Well, that one is difficult because I cannot cut a part of my self and toss it away so I can think differently on a specific issue. But I do look at the anatomy of the male and female and they compliment each other, both internally and externally we compliment each other, now we cannot say the same thing about 2 men or 2 woman. If the entire world decided to be homosexual how we could keep going? If is a normal thing and even natural, then why homosexual partners can't conceive in that natural way? And please don't bring the example of infertile couples, because infertility is a disease, if we compare the 2 of them, then homosexuality would be a disease as well. I still find it unfair and not the way it was designed to be.

Please don't read me wrong, one of my best and dearest friend is gay, I have opened the door of my house to him, he has come and stayed here with my family, we love him dearly, but we don't love his sexual preference, and if he was to ask me if he could visit again with his partner, I would say yes but in separate rooms. Same thing I did with my cousin who has a boyfriend, she visited my home and my husband said she could not share rooms with him under our roof. I can't tell them what to do outside my house, and that is me respecting them, but if they love me they have to respect my house as well, and they do.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:40 AM
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The saddest part is that I am not even a christian. I believe religion can be good. It encourages people to love, help[, and be better people. On the other hand when religion is bad it can be very evil. I have had some great christians and Muslims in my life. They were loving without judgement. One was there when I gave birth to my first child at the age of 16. I love her. I know what Sister Sally believes, but she loves me and if anyone could convert me to Christianity it would be her. I worked with 2 Muslim ladies at my first job. They would go in the closet several times a day and pray. they never judged me. They brought me food every day for lunch. If anyone good convert me to Islam it would be these 2 Muslim ladies..not the people in line at Chick-fil-a waiting for hours. Religion is about love and peace. You can't convert gay people, but love is the way to get your message across.
I think that everyone needs something to believe in, but when you go overboard coo coo with it then that is where the problems begin. I also believe religion can be good, it can be a foundation of good to start from, again it is when it goes overboard that problems arise. I always tend to go back to balance- Keeping a balance of everything is what I strive for and being a good person.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:42 AM
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Just because people don't agree with their lifestlye doesn't mean that they hate them....
true but many sure make it hard for them- We are not stupid people any of us, we know when we are genuinely liked and when we are looked down upon or made lesser-
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:48 AM
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Binkybobo stated that "I hate it when people use religion to cover their own hateful feelings". She is making some pretty big assumptions and generalizations. My point is that just because I do not agree with homosexuality does not mean that I hate people who are homosexual.
Well if you didn't hate them then why would you deny them the same rights that you have? Maybe it is not hate but it seems like it a very big dislike.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:53 AM
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I completely understand what you are saying but it is a two way street isn't it?
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It is, and I have to admit that many Christians, yes Christians more than other religions do a bad job at this. And then the ones that do believe in disagreeing with respect don't want to speak because the intolerance.


[COLOR="rgb(139, 0, 0)"]I'm guessing that "some of the people who who fight so hard for tolerance" (as you say) may have been told that they will go to hell, or that their marriage doesn't count as legitimate because they weren't married in a certain type of building, or feel judged by many Christians because they are single and chose to have a child, or because they married outside of their ethnicity, or had their child's funeral picketted, or because they are gay or lesbian. [/color]

I agree, probable many, but if you fight for a cause where you want for all to be equal, that is all it is hypocritical to fight for rights and want to criticize others for expressing themselves.

[COLOR="rgb(139, 0, 0)"]I live my life in a way that conforms to most Christian standards but there is absolutely no way I would ever affiliate myself with the Christians. For me it is the judgmental hypocrisy that sends me screaming in the opposite direction.

I say let any two adults who love each other marry if they want to. It doesn't take anything away from my marriage at all. Share the love.
[/color]

And if that is OK and works for you that is fine. I think the problem with many Christians is not knowing how to do things. Maybe here I don't sound like the most loving person but I not a hater. I am passionate about conserving our rights and to be allowed to do what God asks for us to do and that is preach the Gospel. I do not peeket, I do not harass gay couples, I do not go to a single mom and stop her at the grocery store and tell her how bad a person she is, because she probably is not. But I do believe that shutting our mouths is not what we were called to do, and more and more are doing that. I've heard Christians say that they would encourage someone to choose to end their life, why? Because is their life and for them to choose what to do with it. Well for me life is a precious thing granted to us by God and I would do my best to let that person know that, instead of encouraging euthanasia.
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:00 AM
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"Looking past your religion, what are your personal issues with homosexuality? The excuse that the children will be ridiculed is not valid. I was told the same thing when I married outside of my race."

I will say "A natual thing" alot in this post. What I mean by that is if it was suppose to be a way of life, it would have already been placed into nature and be a natural way of living.

If it is a natural thing, why then hasn't it been recognized and accepted since time began? Why over time has people not been more outspoken about it and lived open lives? Why be so secretive about it if thats the way God created them? It shouldn't have shocked anyone over the thousands of years if it were a natural thing.

I was a teenager/young adult in the 80's. It seemed there were so many gay people then that you couldn't keep up with it. Everyone seemed to come out of the closet. Remember when Rock Hudson came out! I remember "pretty boys" and walking into department stores to see men at the makeup counter. Why not push for it then? Why 30 years later? If we are to be accepting of it now, why wouldn't we have been accepting of it then.

A few years ago there was a "Man" in our state having children.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...ticle-1.291001

Thats something that you really don't want to even try to explain to your children and you shouldn't have to. A homosexual couple know from the get go that they can't have a child natually and will have to have help. If it was suppose to be natural, then they would be able to try for their own children first. A straight couple won't know that till they have tried for awhile and alot of times there is an answer and they can actually have their own child from both parents.

If it is a natural thing, how about the intimate part of life? Two men are using openings that weren't made for sexual intimacy. Rectal cancer is a scare among gay men and its because of the the misuse of it. Lesbians have to use other attachments to be able to satisfy the partner as they weren't born with the part that is meant for that. If its natural they would have what was needed for the act.

Someone has to decide who is the husband and who is the wife. In a straight couple it is pretty evident. Also, if they do have a child, they have to decide who carries the baby (its not always the wife). In a straight couple, once again its prettys straight forward.

If its something that was meant to be, there would have been no laws set against it in the first place. It would have been an automatic that marriage was for anyone that loved each other, no matter their sexual orientation.

Now on the children part. I have taken care of two little girls in the past (within the last 5 years/different families). The first one called anyone daddy because she honestly wanted a daddy extremely bad. She had a dad but he really wasn't in the picture and she wanted one of her own forever. Mom was pretty happy single so not sure if one will be in the works.

The other little girl-dad was not in the picture at at. Mom met a wonderful man and they were married. I will never forget the day that the little girl looked at me and said "Mommy and ******* are getting married and we are changing his name to daddy!" She was soooooo excited for this.

For some reason (to me) I don't see a little one being excited for another mommy or daddy. They already have that role filled by someone and need the opposite sex of the parent to fill in the role that isn't there. Two men aren't going to know how it feels for that little girl (if they had one) to get her first period. They won't be able to say "oh, I know it can be a painful time of the month" as they have never experienced a period in their live, the pain of childbirth, developing breasts, maybe taking birth control and what can come from that. Same with two lesbians that may have a son. Boys go through many changes that women can't relate to.

I know there are many single parents out there but to find a truly single one is rare. Usually there is a girl/boy friend in the picture that they child may talk to or they do have their biliogical parent of the same sex if the parents are divorced.

These are just my thoughts on the subject as they were asked. I have had gay people in my life in the past but they knew I didn't condone their lifestyle. I didn't condone other people (relatives/friends) lifestyles for things they did with their lives-drinking, drugs, other issues in their lives. I can love these people as Jesus did but he wouldn't have condoned the livestyles they lived. I'm sure there are many more things I could think of but these are just right off the top of my head.
My limited English don't let me express my thought this well , love it
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:00 AM
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Well if you didn't hate them then why would you deny them the same rights that you have? Maybe it is not hate but it seems like it a very big dislike.
With all due respect....where did I ever say that I would deny them the same rights that I have? I believe what I said was that just because I do not agree with their lifestyle doesn't mean I hate them....nor do I dislike them. Here we go again with assumptions and generalizations....
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:27 PM
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Is it implemented in your home? Why are you here preaching the gospel then? It is clearly written in the scripture that you have no place.
But I think we do, God tells men to love and protect their wife's like Jesus loves the Church. We have to respect our husbands and be submissive yes, but just by reading Ephesians 5:25 we know that we are free to express ourselves with respect, because Jesus loved the Church such a way, Jesus for us is God, and he wants us to come to God and be able to feel free to talk to Him about everything and be ourselves. That is what I believe in and that the Bible says about how my Husband has to treat me. So if we can express ourselves with God and talk to him freely and openly about everything, we should be able to have the same thing with our husbands. When you quote the Bible you have to know the context of it, is it something based on the historical time it was written for example?
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  #190  
Old 04-02-2013, 12:33 PM
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I don't think it will turn sour. I am not here to attack anyone's religion. It just hurts me to see some of the terrible things that were written and all written in the name of Jesus. I hate it when people use religion to cover their own hateful feelings. I'd much rather have someone say that they are disgusted. I have had the scripture used against me for many reasons in my life. I've had ugly things said to me in the name of Jesus, but I knew that they were just using the bible as an excuse. Would Jesus wait in line at Chick-fil-a for 2 hours to get a sandwich just to rub it in the face of a gay person or would he be mentoring and loving that person during those 2 hours?
I think you misunderstood her... I've never read here that Jesus hates gay people, we all know he does not, he loves them as much as he loves me or any other Christian.
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  #191  
Old 04-02-2013, 12:37 PM
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But I think we do, God tells men to love and protect their wife's like Jesus loves the Church. We have to respect our husbands and be submissive yes, but just by reading Ephesians 5:25 we know that we are free to express ourselves with respect, because Jesus loved the Church such a way, Jesus for us is God, and he wants us to come to God and be able to feel free to talk to Him about everything and be ourselves. That is what I believe in and that the Bible says about how my Husband has to treat me. So if we can express ourselves with God and talk to him freely and openly about everything, we should be able to have the same thing with our husbands. When you quote the Bible you have to know the context of it, is it something based on the historical time it was written for example?
So now it is out of context and no longer applies? Please don't bring me back to this dead horse.
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  #192  
Old 04-02-2013, 12:42 PM
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So now it is out of context and no longer applies? Please don't bring me back to this dead horse.
If God tells men to treat us like he love the Church, how is that for you?
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  #193  
Old 04-02-2013, 12:56 PM
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Matthew 7:3-5

New International Version (NIV)


3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.


My faith is still maturing and I don't pretend to know and understand the Bible fully. I am a work in progress. When I think judgemental thoughts of others I try to keep this passage in mind. I will never be without sin, best I keep busy working on my own, rather than focus on someone else's. For some reason we do tend to rank sin, but sin is sin. One can love the sinner, without condoning the sin though.
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  #194  
Old 04-02-2013, 02:18 PM
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Michelle Michelle is offline
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O.k. well I have been taking care of children all morning and finally got a break I just want to say that I do not hate anyone and yes I do think that homosexual acts are disgusting.. not the person but the act.

I love everyone including sinners and yes I do sin and I know I am forgiven of my sins through my savior Jesus Christ.

My best friend had an uncle that died of AIDS and he was gay but he became a christian before he died.. He said he still had gay feelings but did not act on them because he was a Christian.

We are all on here to talk about how we feel and what we believe.
So, lets just be respectful and stop insulting others. I have always stated how I feel and what I have experienced regarding gay people.
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  #195  
Old 04-02-2013, 03:44 PM
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O.k. well I have been taking care of children all morning and finally got a break I just want to say that I do not hate anyone and yes I do think that homosexual acts are disgusting.. not the person but the act.

I love everyone including sinners and yes I do sin and I know I am forgiven of my sins through my savior Jesus Christ.

My best friend had an uncle that died of AIDS and he was gay but he became a christian before he died.. He said he still had gay feelings but did not act on them because he was a Christian.

We are all on here to talk about how we feel and what we believe.
So, lets just be respectful and stop insulting others. I have always stated how I feel and what I have experienced regarding gay people.
Michelle-

You have every right to feel the way you feel. You have every right to believe what you believe. The issue is...not everyone feels that or believes that. So, why do your (not you personally..general "you") beliefs trump anothers?

Gay people being allowed to marry does not affect YOU. You prohibiting them from marrying DOES affect them. That's the difference, in my mind. So, you can continue to have your beliefs, and I totally respect them. It's only when other's aren't allowed the same that I take issue.

I'm not directing this at you personally, please don't think so. I'm addressing the argument in general, which is "I think it's wrong, so it shouldn't be allowed". KWIM? It's two consenting adults, why is it our business to prevent, restrict, judge, or otherwise control?



I'm not trying to convince you to think it's ok...I'm trying to say, if you find it wrong, then don't do it.
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Old 04-02-2013, 03:57 PM
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Michelle-

You have every right to feel the way you feel. You have every right to believe what you believe. The issue is...not everyone feels that or believes that. So, why do your (not you personally..general "you") beliefs trump anothers?

Gay people being allowed to marry does not affect YOU. You prohibiting them from marrying DOES affect them. That's the difference, in my mind. So, you can continue to have your beliefs, and I totally respect them. It's only when other's aren't allowed the same that I take issue.

I'm not directing this at you personally, please don't think so. I'm addressing the argument in general, which is "I think it's wrong, so it shouldn't be allowed". KWIM? It's two consenting adults, why is it our business to prevent, restrict, judge, or otherwise control?



I'm not trying to convince you to think it's ok...I'm trying to say, if you find it wrong, then don't do it.
Super well said Heidi!!!
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  #197  
Old 04-02-2013, 04:04 PM
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Michelle-

You have every right to feel the way you feel. You have every right to believe what you believe. The issue is...not everyone feels that or believes that. So, why do your (not you personally..general "you") beliefs trump anothers?

Gay people being allowed to marry does not affect YOU. You prohibiting them from marrying DOES affect them. That's the difference, in my mind. So, you can continue to have your beliefs, and I totally respect them. It's only when other's aren't allowed the same that I take issue.

I'm not directing this at you personally, please don't think so. I'm addressing the argument in general, which is "I think it's wrong, so it shouldn't be allowed". KWIM? It's two consenting adults, why is it our business to prevent, restrict, judge, or otherwise control?


I'm not trying to convince you to think it's ok...I'm trying to say, if you find it wrong, then don't do it.
Curious.........but does this same theory apply to someone who wants to marry their sister/brother or first cousin, aunt or uncle?

I am not trying to bring a separate debate into this already "warm" discussion, but that concept, idea and thought process has been mentioned several times throughout this thread so I am curious as to what situations as far as marrying the person you love it applies to?
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:12 PM
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Country Kids Country Kids is offline
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Originally Posted by Heidi View Post
Michelle-

You have every right to feel the way you feel. You have every right to believe what you believe. The issue is...not everyone feels that or believes that. So, why do your (not you personally..general "you") beliefs trump anothers?

Gay people being allowed to marry does not affect YOU. You prohibiting them from marrying DOES affect them. That's the difference, in my mind. So, you can continue to have your beliefs, and I totally respect them. It's only when other's aren't allowed the same that I take issue.

I'm not directing this at you personally, please don't think so. I'm addressing the argument in general, which is "I think it's wrong, so it shouldn't be allowed". KWIM? It's two consenting adults, why is it our business to prevent, restrict, judge, or otherwise control?



I'm not trying to convince you to think it's ok...I'm trying to say, if you find it wrong, then don't do it.
It does affect people more then you think. Look at this poll. It was asked what we thought. When people that said they didn't believe in it and why, they are called hater/disgusting/hiders behind their BIBLES/etc. We were asked something, we gave our thoughts, but it didn't go with the mainstream flow so we are wrong. Not one time was a name called out from the opposers. We didn't call gay people any bad names, didn't call the people that are supporters names any names. In fact many said they had friends that were gay but didn't condone the lifestyle. Thats like saying you have friends that drink/smoke but don't approve of it. Its a lifestyle choice either way.

Its just not here, its everywhere, schools, churches, workplaces. If you say your a Christian and don't believe in something, you will be flamed. Thats just how it is.

So yes, I may not believe in homosexuality/gay marriage and it may not affect me by practicing means but when I'm asked my opinion and give it, automatically I'm wrong, so yes it does affect me.
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  #199  
Old 04-02-2013, 04:55 PM
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It does affect people more then you think. Look at this poll. It was asked what we thought. When people that said they didn't believe in it and why, they are called hater/disgusting/hiders behind their BIBLES/etc. We were asked something, we gave our thoughts, but it didn't go with the mainstream flow so we are wrong. Not one time was a name called out from the opposers. We didn't call gay people any bad names, didn't call the people that are supporters names any names. In fact many said they had friends that were gay but didn't condone the lifestyle. Thats like saying you have friends that drink/smoke but don't approve of it. Its a lifestyle choice either way.

Its just not here, its everywhere, schools, churches, workplaces. If you say your a Christian and don't believe in something, you will be flamed. Thats just how it is.

So yes, I may not believe in homosexuality/gay marriage and it may not affect me by practicing means but when I'm asked my opinion and give it, automatically I'm wrong, so yes it does affect me.

100% agree

It does affect a great deal. Again, I don't expect non believers to understand, but I have a 2yr old and I feel threaten by the world, I am not trying to sound dramatic or making things bigger than they are, but that is how I feel. I've been having conversations with my husband that years ago , when I was not a mom, I would not even dream of having. I am concerned about schools, what they will teach my child that goes against my beliefs, I constantly think about homeschooling because private school is to expensive for me. I know that the battle I have is far greater that the one my parents had, because now everything is accepted and I know that by the time my child is a teenager this is going to be the new normal. After that something else is going to pass, someone else is going to say "I want equal rights" and the battle of acceptance will keep going. This is not about calling gay people names, or saying they are bad or hated by God, that is just not true. This is about having the world around me calling my God a liar and the battle that I would have if I send my child to school and they tell him something there and I say the contrary based on what I believe God wants, someone would be lying to my child, me or the system?

I am pretty sure that the person that opened this thread did not have this in mind, but people, please understand, if you want to know the "why's", it is true you don't have to accept it, but you don't have to be rude about it either. The fact that some of us decided to say why or give answer to some questions is not going to change no ones life, they are going to get married, they are going to adopt, it is going to happen. We on the other hand, have to try to keep our family values intact against a changing world that denies God each day more and more and that calls his people haters, liars, hypocrites and even say they are disgusted by us.
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  #200  
Old 04-02-2013, 05:34 PM
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I think this has been a fairly civil discussion. Both sides have disagreed and there has been a bit of "name-calling" from both sides, but all in all it has been a fairly decent discussion. I see no reason why it cannot remain that way, if everybody agrees to stop taking things personally
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