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View Poll Results: Where do you stand on Gay Marriage?
Marriage is only between a man and a woman 33 24.26%
Never should be allowed 6 4.41%
Should be allowed 89 65.44%
It's none of my business 28 20.59%
eeewwwww....that grosses me out :/ 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 136. You may not vote on this poll

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  #201  
Old 04-02-2013, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Curious.........but does this same theory apply to someone who wants to marry their sister/brother or first cousin, aunt or uncle?

I am not trying to bring a separate debate into this already "warm" discussion, but that concept, idea and thought process has been mentioned several times throughout this thread so I am curious as to what situations as far as marrying the person you love it applies to?
In my opinion, I would say no the same theory would not apply. "inbreeding" is known to be possibly harmful. If that couple has children, they would knowingly be subjecting the fetus to possible disorders.

Once dh and I discovered that because of a genetic mutation, I would never have a healthy pregnancy/ baby, we made the decision to stop having children. It's not fair to put them into harms way.
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  #202  
Old 04-02-2013, 05:11 PM
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It does affect people more then you think. Look at this poll. It was asked what we thought. When people that said they didn't believe in it and why, they are called hater/disgusting/hiders behind their BIBLES/etc. We were asked something, we gave our thoughts, but it didn't go with the mainstream flow so we are wrong. Not one time was a name called out from the opposers. We didn't call gay people any bad names, didn't call the people that are supporters names any names. In fact many said they had friends that were gay but didn't condone the lifestyle. Thats like saying you have friends that drink/smoke but don't approve of it. Its a lifestyle choice either way.

Its just not here, its everywhere, schools, churches, workplaces. If you say your a Christian and don't believe in something, you will be flamed. Thats just how it is.

So yes, I may not believe in homosexuality/gay marriage and it may not affect me by practicing means but when I'm asked my opinion and give it, automatically I'm wrong, so yes it does affect me.
You don't get flamed for your beliefs. You get flamed for how you express your opinion on those beliefs and how you perpetuate this theory that since god governs your life, he also governs the law and in turn everyone else's life. And this is not the case.

I'm speaking to the general "you" and not you directly, ck. I quoted you though because you gave a good example.
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  #203  
Old 04-02-2013, 05:24 PM
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It's far easier to manipulate religion to suit oneself than it is to acknowledge or adhere to it in it's true and actual form.

If people did most of this conversation would have never taken place.
I'm having a lot of trouble organizing my thoughts into a coherent post, but this comes very close to what I'm thinking.
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  #204  
Old 04-02-2013, 05:36 PM
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You don't get flamed for your beliefs. You get flamed for how you express your opinion on those beliefs and how you perpetuate this theory that since god governs your life, he also governs the law and in turn everyone else's life. And this is not the case.

I'm speaking to the general "you" and not you directly, ck. I quoted you though because you gave a good example.
I know you weren't speaking to me in general and thanks for saying that-

Question though-when I expressed MY opinion and took God OUT of it, I was called disgusting and a hater. That was without anything of God mentioned.
See even taking God out of it and expressing my thoughts didn't changed anything. It didn't matter if it was because of my faith or without.

I bet though if I had said, I think this is why gays should be allowed to marry/have children/etc. then I know there would have been no specific names said to me. Why is that?

I'm speaking of what was said to me personally, not what was said to others. I never called gay people any names, call them disgusting or straight haters. Did not say people that supported them were disgusting/call them names. These things were said to me though because I don't support gay lifestyles. So yes that did affect me personally.
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  #205  
Old 04-02-2013, 05:54 PM
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I know you weren't speaking to me in general and thanks for saying that-

Question though-when I expressed MY opinion and took God OUT of it, I was called disgusting and a hater. That was without anything of God mentioned.
See even taking God out of it and expressing my thoughts didn't changed anything. It didn't matter if it was because of my faith or without.

I bet though if I had said, I think this is why gays should be allowed to marry/have children/etc. then I know there would have been no specific names said to me. Why is that?

I'm speaking of what was said to me personally, not what was said to others. I never called gay people any names, call them disgusting or straight haters. Did not say people that supported them were disgusting/call them names. These things were said to me though because I don't support gay lifestyles. So yes that did affect me personally.
I can see how that would effect you negatively. I don't think name calling is going to get any side anywhere. But none of us are going to change the others opinion though.

Let's all hug it out. (in a non gay way)
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  #206  
Old 04-02-2013, 06:06 PM
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In my opinion, I would say no the same theory would not apply. "inbreeding" is known to be possibly harmful. If that couple has children, they would knowingly be subjecting the fetus to possible disorders.

Once dh and I discovered that because of a genetic mutation, I would never have a healthy pregnancy/ baby, we made the decision to stop having children. It's not fair to put them into harms way.
Whether a couple is going to procreate is irrelavent (sp?) since the couple could always adopt or be childless just like a gay couple could...................

So having children aside, how does the same theory apply to consenting adults who want to be in a committed relationship with the person they love?

What if a person loves two people? Can't 3 consenting adults be in a committed relationship too?
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  #207  
Old 04-02-2013, 06:13 PM
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I can see how that would effect you negatively. I don't think name calling is going to get any side anywhere. But none of us are going to change the others opinion though.

Let's all hug it out. (in a non gay way)
's to you also!!!!!

If you knew me in person, you would see that I'm a believer in hugs!


No, we won't change others opiniions but when asked our thoughts, views, beliefs (personal or spiritual), no reason to attack with names and such because it doesn't go with yours.

I think this horse me actually be pretty dead except for BC question. Who knows though, it may rise from the dead later-
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  #208  
Old 04-02-2013, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Whether a couple is going to procreate is irrelavent (sp?) since the couple could always adopt or be childless just like a gay couple could...................

So having children aside, how does the same theory apply to consenting adults who want to be in a committed relationship with the person they love?

What if a person loves two people? Can't 3 consenting adults be in a committed relationship too?
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  #209  
Old 04-02-2013, 06:17 PM
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Let's all hug it out. (in a non gay way)



Love you Country Kids..( in a non gay way!)



and Black Cat!!!
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  #210  
Old 04-02-2013, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Whether a couple is going to procreate is irrelavent (sp?) since the couple could always adopt or be childless just like a gay couple could...................

So having children aside, how does the same theory apply to consenting adults who want to be in a committed relationship with the person they love?

What if a person loves two people? Can't 3 consenting adults be in a committed relationship too?
Remember when Tom and Roseanne Arnold had their girlfriend!

Wasn't there an uproar over that back then or was that so the 90's-
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  #211  
Old 04-02-2013, 06:28 PM
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Curious.........but does this same theory apply to someone who wants to marry their sister/brother or first cousin, aunt or uncle?

I am not trying to bring a separate debate into this already "warm" discussion, but that concept, idea and thought process has been mentioned several times throughout this thread so I am curious as to what situations as far as marrying the person you love it applies to?

I don't know if anyone remembers this but Jerry Lee Lewis married his 13 year old cousin and they did have a baby! He was kicked out of England for this when he went to do a concert. I think also, he wasn't allowed to perform in America either.

Wait though, that was during the 50's (many morals were still in place).
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  #212  
Old 04-02-2013, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Country Kids View Post
I know you weren't speaking to me in general and thanks for saying that-

Question though-when I expressed MY opinion and took God OUT of it, I was called disgusting and a hater. That was without anything of God mentioned.
See even taking God out of it and expressing my thoughts didn't changed anything. It didn't matter if it was because of my faith or without.


I bet though if I had said, I think this is why gays should be allowed to
marry/have children/etc. then I know there would have been no specific names said to me. Why is that?

I'm speaking of what was said to me personally, not what was said to others. I never called gay people any names, call them disgusting or straight haters. Did not say people that supported them were disgusting/call them names. These things were said to me though because I don't support gay lifestyles. So yes that did affect me personally.
From what I saw your post was about your religion and beliefs, there were several references to the bible, the Lord, and your interpretations/discussions of the bible. I'm not trying to "call you out," I just really didn't see where God was left out. BUT I think that this issue is heavily rooted in religion (obviously from this thread) so I understand your use of it in defense of your stance. I'm on the opposite side of you on this issue but I respect your right to believe what you want.

I'm not religious but I'm not naïve. Religion is large part of people's lives and identities so asking them not to believe or denounce it because they are "wrong" isn't fair, just as telling me I have to believe isn't fair. I just agree to disagree. There are those "haters" on both sides that take things to the extreme and do encourage hate but that is not the majority. Just like not all Muslims are terrorists, I know not all religious people are "haters" and I didn't think you were being one.

I just hoped people were above name calling It's not right no matter what side you are on.

Personally I've found this thread interesting, especially after seeing the religion poll. As stated I'm not religious but it's been informative and interesting to me getting to hear the other side.
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  #213  
Old 04-02-2013, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Whether a couple is going to procreate is irrelavent (sp?) since the couple could always adopt or be childless just like a gay couple could...................

So having children aside, how does the same theory apply to consenting adults who want to be in a committed relationship with the person they love?

What if a person loves two people? Can't 3 consenting adults be in a committed relationship too?
I just saw a show where a man was in a "relationship" with his car... Sexually and emotionally
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  #214  
Old 04-02-2013, 07:02 PM
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It may not be what is natura for you,but it is what is natural for them. That's what's most important. They could be in an unhappy marriage where the dad being in the closet would secretly step out on the mother with men. He could spend less time at the house while he is cheating. He could be a miserable father which "naturally" would not be good for the kids. ALl this or he could be in a happy gay marriage as described by the Academy of pediatrics. I don't care what goes into what openings as you described or who has a strap-on. YOLO. People deserve to live happy lives, and your fear of the unkown doesn't change that.
(Quote)The saddest part is that I am not even a christian. I believe religion can be good. It encourages people to love, help[, and be better people. On the other hand when religion is bad it can be very evil. I have had some great christians and Muslims in my life. They were loving without judgement. One was there when I gave birth to my first child at the age of 16. I love her. I know what Sister Sally believes, but she loves me and if anyone could convert me to Christianity it would be her. I worked with 2 Muslim ladies at my first job. They would go in the closet several times a day and pray. they never judged me. They brought me food every day for lunch. If anyone good convert me to Islam it would be these 2 Muslim ladies..not the people in line at Chick-fil-a waiting for hours. Religion is about love and peace. You can't convert gay people, but love is the way to get your message across.
Today 09:49 AM

(Quote)

There are also many children in the system that never get adopted. The "age" out of the system at 18. They are on their own with no family to go home to for the holidays, no one to laugh about old times with, and no one to call them on their birthday..........


(Quote)
One last comment on this and then I am off to bed.
I have read where it was acceptable in Roman and African cultures for men to have homosexual relationships. Look it up. There may be many more. There are many groups that now have rights that have never in the history of America or our world than ever before. You say that this has never been acceptable, but tell me when in the history of the world could people of any race, religion, background etc, work, learn, and eat together in one land peacefully without a war breaking out? Here in America I can marry or be friends with anyone of any religion or race without the fear of being killed. That would not have been possible 100 years ago. The argument that this has never been socially acceptable is then also not valid. This will bring you back to your original argument which is religion. Which I am not bashing, but the purpose of your post I am sure was to show me what other than religion makes you against gay marriage.


I hope you don't feel like I am the one who was name calling or hating Christians. I thought I had valid points. Again religion, and politics which is what the gay marriage debate is always going to be about are two subjects that will always get heated. I can't force you to accept these people. I just think people's feathers get a little ruffled by the great scripture debate and the WWJD debate of how we should treat people and what laws must be followed. This post in itself is not an attack on you. Just trying to clear my own name.
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  #215  
Old 04-02-2013, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Whether a couple is going to procreate is irrelavent (sp?) since the couple could always adopt or be childless just like a gay couple could...................

So having children aside, how does the same theory apply to consenting adults who want to be in a committed relationship with the person they love?

What if a person loves two people? Can't 3 consenting adults be in a committed relationship too?
I wouldn't say its irrelevant. You cant tell married people that they can't procreate. But for a hypothetical situation, sure. Marry your brother. Marry three of your brothers. Everyone is consenting, their life does not affect my life.
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  #216  
Old 04-02-2013, 07:10 PM
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I wouldn't say its irrelevant. You cant tell married people that they can't procreate. But for a hypothetical situation, sure. Marry your brother. Marry three of your brothers. Everyone is consenting, their life does not affect my life.
my thoughts exactly.
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  #217  
Old 04-02-2013, 07:33 PM
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From what I saw your post was about your religion and beliefs, there were several references to the bible, the Lord, and your interpretations/discussions of the bible. I'm not trying to "call you out," I just really didn't see where God was left out. BUT I think that this issue is heavily rooted in religion (obviously from this thread) so I understand your use of it in defense of your stance. I'm on the opposite side of you on this issue but I respect your right to believe what you want.

I'm not religious but I'm not naïve. Religion is large part of people's lives and identities so asking them not to believe or denounce it because they are "wrong" isn't fair, just as telling me I have to believe isn't fair. I just agree to disagree. There are those "haters" on both sides that take things to the extreme and do encourage hate but that is not the majority. Just like not all Muslims are terrorists, I know not all religious people are "haters" and I didn't think you were being one.

I just hoped people were above name calling It's not right no matter what side you are on.

Personally I've found this thread interesting, especially after seeing the religion poll. As stated I'm not religious but it's been informative and interesting to me getting to hear the other side.
I had a whole post written that not once was the Bible nor my religious beliefs talked about-#115

This is a response back:This is disgusting. I can just about wrap my mind about what the issue is. Just admit that you are disgusted by homosexuals. Besides the obvious religious talk, you're just disgusted by homosexuals.

Nothing was said in this thread about religion, nor the Bible. This was my own beliefs with everything aside.

Not once did I say I hated them, call them names, or call the supporters names.

I was stating different things, most of them if not all were very obvious. I brought things to light and right away, its disgusting and I'm disgusted by homosexuals. I even comment on how I have had gay friends but didn't condone the lifestyle they led.

Guess the horse didn't fully die!
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  #218  
Old 04-02-2013, 07:36 PM
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Do you overeat?
Would you enter into a forced married with your rapist?
Do you eat Christmas ham, pork chops, or bacon?
Would you release your slave at the agreed upon age as written in the scripture?
Do you cover your hair in the sanctuary?
As I look back, I can see how it got a little heated and you may have felt attacked. I guess my thoughts come from the events that lead me to become agnostic or atheists. At one point I really tried to follow all of the scriptures because I thought i was not a "good christian" if I could not follow ALL of the rules. I just about lost my mind trying to be perfect. but if I think to my own message of religion helping people to become better I have to realize that your Christianity that gives you peace may not be of the same denomination or extreme level that I believed that I needed to be. I hope that you continue to do what makes you happy and I hope that doesn't cause other people hurt in the process. I have a tendency to take up for groups that I feel are being stereotyped, hurt, or treated badly because of my own life experiences. I feel the need to take up for them in extreme ways because I have been on the other end of a prejudice sword myself, hurt and with no one willing to speak up and defend me. It does hurt me to read that people think tat gay people may harm children or that they got that way because of trauma. When religion was brought in, I suppose that opened the door for it to be discussed? When one scripture is used and many others ignored it just opens the door for this type of heated debate. I am not really sure how I could have expressed my point any differently.
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  #219  
Old 04-02-2013, 07:40 PM
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As I look back, I can see how it got a little heated and you may have felt attacked. I guess my thoughts come from the events that lead me to become agnostic or atheists. At one point I really tried to follow all of the scriptures because I thought i was not a "good christian" if I could not follow ALL of the rules. I just about lost my mind trying to be perfect. but if I think to my own message of religion helping people to become better I have to realize that your Christianity that gives you peace may not be of the same denomination or extreme level that I believed that I needed to be. I hope that you continue to do what makes you happy and I hope that doesn't cause other people hurt in the process. I have a tendency to take up for groups that I feel are being stereotyped, hurt, or treated badly because of my own life experiences. I feel the need to take up for them in extreme ways because I have been on the other end of a prejudice sword myself, hurt and with no one willing to speak up and defend me. It does hurt me to read that people think tat gay people may harm children or that they got that way because of trauma. When religion was brought in, I suppose that opened the door for it to be discussed? When one scripture is used and many others ignored it just opens the door for this type of heated debate. I am not really sure how I could have expressed my point any differently.
I think you have expressed your point quite eloquently.
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  #220  
Old 04-02-2013, 07:41 PM
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I had a whole post written that not once was the Bible nor my religious beliefs talked about-#115

This is a response back:This is disgusting. I can just about wrap my mind about what the issue is. Just admit that you are disgusted by homosexuals. Besides the obvious religious talk, you're just disgusted by homosexuals.

Nothing was said in this thread about religion, nor the Bible. This was my own beliefs with everything aside.

Not once did I say I hated them, call them names, or call the supporters names.

I was stating different things, most of them if not all were very obvious. I brought things to light and right away, its disgusting and I'm disgusted by homosexuals. I even comment on how I have had gay friends but didn't condone the lifestyle they led.

Guess the horse didn't fully die!
Truce. I could point out more, but i just don;t see the point anymore? I could defend what I said, but I no longer care? The horse is in hospice taking extra shots of morphine...
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  #221  
Old 04-02-2013, 07:49 PM
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I had a whole post written that not once was the Bible nor my religious beliefs talked about-#115

This is a response back:This is disgusting. I can just about wrap my mind about what the issue is. Just admit that you are disgusted by homosexuals. Besides the obvious religious talk, you're just disgusted by homosexuals.

Nothing was said in this thread about religion, nor the Bible. This was my own beliefs with everything aside.

Not once did I say I hated them, call them names, or call the supporters names.

I was stating different things, most of them if not all were very obvious. I brought things to light and right away, its disgusting and I'm disgusted by homosexuals. I even comment on how I have had gay friends but didn't condone the lifestyle they led.

Guess the horse didn't fully die!
I wasn't trying to beat a dead horse I was just bringing up what I had seen and agree that you didn't say anything that was hateful or rude, you have your beliefs and a right to use them to support your views
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  #222  
Old 04-02-2013, 07:59 PM
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It does affect people more then you think. Look at this poll. It was asked what we thought. When people that said they didn't believe in it and why, they are called hater/disgusting/hiders behind their BIBLES/etc. We were asked something, we gave our thoughts, but it didn't go with the mainstream flow so we are wrong. Not one time was a name called out from the opposers. We didn't call gay people any bad names, didn't call the people that are supporters names any names. In fact many said they had friends that were gay but didn't condone the lifestyle. Thats like saying you have friends that drink/smoke but don't approve of it. Its a lifestyle choice either way.

Its just not here, its everywhere, schools, churches, workplaces. If you say your a Christian and don't believe in something, you will be flamed. Thats just how it is.

So yes, I may not believe in homosexuality/gay marriage and it may not affect me by practicing means but when I'm asked my opinion and give it, automatically I'm wrong, so yes it does affect me.

First....no one should be judging your beliefs, especially those asking you not judge theirs. I didn't read anyone here doing that, though. Pretty much what I've read here as far as opposing viewpoints is that they are saying "you can beleive what you want, just don't impose it on me". That is what I'm arguing. That you have every right to believe anything at all, that no one should interfere with that, but that you should allow others the same choices. Even if I think you're wrong, I am not forbidding you from thinking it, feeling it, or even picketing it, if you were so inclined. By the same token, I have a right to roll my eyes at your logic. Because we have those freedoms. We can respect each other's differences and still be friends.


What I AM asking you to do is practice what YOU beleive, and allow others to do the same. I would not tell you who to marry. I may not approve of blonds marrying brunettes. But, I would never support legislation to prevent them from marrying. KWIM?
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  #223  
Old 04-02-2013, 08:07 PM
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Curious.........but does this same theory apply to someone who wants to marry their sister/brother or first cousin, aunt or uncle?

I am not trying to bring a separate debate into this already "warm" discussion, but that concept, idea and thought process has been mentioned several times throughout this thread so I am curious as to what situations as far as marrying the person you love it applies to?
Ok...you KNEW that despite your protests I'd answer this...I promised...lol

Yes...if consenting sisters, brother, uncles, cousins, or whatever wanted to marry, I'd say so what? It would take generations of this to cause "inbreeding", and there are places in the world, and in this country where that does happen. If 3 or 4 people wanted to get married, I wouldn't care either. Consenting adults. Should they receive the same tax benefits, etc? I dont' know...would have to do more research on that.

Next question: should someone be able to marry a dog, a toaster, or a child? NO...only one party is consenting. The poor toaster can't say no, and consumating the marraige would be...electrifying...


sorry....couldn't resist
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  #224  
Old 04-02-2013, 08:35 PM
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Ok...you KNEW that despite your protests I'd answer this...I promised...lol

Yes...if consenting sisters, brother, uncles, cousins, or whatever wanted to marry, I'd say so what? It would take generations of this to cause "inbreeding", and there are places in the world, and in this country where that does happen. If 3 or 4 people wanted to get married, I wouldn't care either. Consenting adults. Should they receive the same tax benefits, etc? I dont' know...would have to do more research on that.

Next question: should someone be able to marry a dog, a toaster, or a child? NO...only one party is consenting. The poor toaster can't say no, and consumating the marraige would be...electrifying...


sorry....couldn't resist

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Old 04-02-2013, 08:53 PM
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Ok...you KNEW that despite your protests I'd answer this...I promised...lol

Yes...if consenting sisters, brother, uncles, cousins, or whatever wanted to marry, I'd say so what? It would take generations of this to cause "inbreeding", and there are places in the world, and in this country where that does happen. If 3 or 4 people wanted to get married, I wouldn't care either. Consenting adults. Should they receive the same tax benefits, etc? I dont' know...would have to do more research on that.

Next question: should someone be able to marry a dog, a toaster, or a child? NO...only one party is consenting. The poor toaster can't say no, and consumating the marraige would be...electrifying...


sorry....couldn't resist
I just died X-D

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Old 04-02-2013, 08:53 PM
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I'm just going to chime in here and let those who don't know... PAGANS invented/created marriage - along with almost all other celebrations that catholics/christians claim as their own
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:03 AM
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Michelle-

You have every right to feel the way you feel. You have every right to believe what you believe. The issue is...not everyone feels that or believes that. So, why do your (not you personally..general "you") beliefs trump anothers?

Gay people being allowed to marry does not affect YOU. You prohibiting them from marrying DOES affect them. That's the difference, in my mind. So, you can continue to have your beliefs, and I totally respect them. It's only when other's aren't allowed the same that I take issue.

I'm not directing this at you personally, please don't think so. I'm addressing the argument in general, which is "I think it's wrong, so it shouldn't be allowed". KWIM? It's two consenting adults, why is it our business to prevent, restrict, judge, or otherwise control?



I'm not trying to convince you to think it's ok...I'm trying to say, if you find it wrong, then don't do it.
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:17 AM
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Ok...you KNEW that despite your protests I'd answer this...I promised...lol

Yes...if consenting sisters, brother, uncles, cousins, or whatever wanted to marry, I'd say so what? It would take generations of this to cause "inbreeding", and there are places in the world, and in this country where that does happen. If 3 or 4 people wanted to get married, I wouldn't care either. Consenting adults. Should they receive the same tax benefits, etc? I dont' know...would have to do more research on that.

Next question: should someone be able to marry a dog, a toaster, or a child? NO...only one party is consenting. The poor toaster can't say no, and consumating the marraige would be...electrifying...


sorry....couldn't resist

What about bestiality? If the animal is all willing to engage in a sexual relationship with a person? 2 sides would be consenting, right?
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:40 AM
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What about bestiality? If the animal is all willing to engage in a sexual relationship with a person? 2 sides would be consenting, right?
Animals do not talk. They could not be consenting.

This is ridiculous.
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:02 AM
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What about bestiality? If the animal is all willing to engage in a sexual relationship with a person? 2 sides would be consenting, right?
If that is your thought process then do you also believe children being molested are consenting parties? Many.have no idea that what's happening is wrong so don't.know to say no, fight back or tell.

Consenting entails maturity and above all else MENTAL CAPACITY. An animal cannot speak or understand the ramifications of their actions. I'm not sure how you came up with that as any kind of reasonable comparison......do you really see no difference??



As for BC's questions I agree with Heidi.

And littlemissmuffet makes an awesome point. Why Christians feel they have the right to dictate something they had no part in creating is just beyond me.....
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:23 AM
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I'm just going to chime in here and let those who don't know... PAGANS invented/created marriage - along with almost all other celebrations that catholics/christians claim as their own
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:37 AM
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What about bestiality? If the animal is all willing to engage in a sexual relationship with a person? 2 sides would be consenting, right?
nope...the animal is not consenting, it is oppressed..it cannot speak for itself.
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Old 04-03-2013, 06:05 AM
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Ok...you KNEW that despite your protests I'd answer this...I promised...lol

Yes...if consenting sisters, brother, uncles, cousins, or whatever wanted to marry, I'd say so what? It would take generations of this to cause "inbreeding", and there are places in the world, and in this country where that does happen. If 3 or 4 people wanted to get married, I wouldn't care either. Consenting adults. Should they receive the same tax benefits, etc? I dont' know...would have to do more research on that.

Next question: should someone be able to marry a dog, a toaster, or a child? NO...only one party is consenting. The poor toaster can't say no, and consumating the marraige would be...electrifying...


sorry....couldn't resist
That's exactly what I wanted to know

and the toaster thing.....
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:25 AM
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to all this morning! You know I was thinking the best way to keep friendships-No politics/religion talk (old saying).

I myself have had issues with beliefs of other people and what I should do with my own life.

Here's some of the things that have been told to me:

Not to marry in the "church" that I was being married in. It wasn't of my families believe system. It bothered them the religion that I was being married to, even though I wasn't going to convert.

Not sure but may have bothered people I was marrying someone from another race/culture. It probably was mentioned but not sure.

In pre-marital meetings with the person who was marrying us-Had to meet with my parent as I wasn't baptized at all. Was a huge issue for the "church". Also wasn't sure if we were going to make it-Celebrating 23 years this year.

Have had people tell me "I'm surprised you had so many children, we didn't think you liked children!" I only do it for a living- I don't like disrespectivel children or I rule the roost children. Wow, quiet a shocker I guess.

I still have issues with people on how the church we attend believes(been going for the last 23 years) and went with family members growing up. Now one of the biggest persons I have to defend my beliefs to are relatives who left the church and joined other beliefs/churches. I finally have told them I don't want to talk religion with them anymore-its to stressful. Also, if the few hangups they have with it keeps me from heaven, I probably didn't have a chance to begin with. We belong to a very conservative church and people seem to have issues that we don't go along with the mainstream churches.

The longer for me personally, I search out things myself in my religions/personal beliefs, the more I found out about myself and what I believe in and why my church believes the way they do. If I have questions and can't figure things out, I ask, research, and look some more. When my husband asks what I would do if I didn't work what would I do with my days, I tell him I could fill it very easily. I could be a professional student as I love to learn. I have grown tremendously over the years and try really hard not to go against what I believe in, even though it would be so much easier to do.

Everyday I have to stand up for my religious/personal beliefs and I think it makes me a stronger person. Just like I stand up for my business practices, I stand up for things I believe in also on a personal level.

Anyway this is turning out way longer then I expected. Just wanted to send s to everyone and say we may have different beliefs/opinions but in the end we all have one things in common that keeps us here, talking and sharing friendships-DAYCARE!

Everyone have a wonderful day-
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  #235  
Old 04-03-2013, 09:54 AM
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Animals do not talk. They could not be consenting.

This is ridiculous.

If that is your thought process then do you also believe children being molested are consenting parties? Many.have no idea that what's happening is wrong so don't.know to say no, fight back or tell.

I don't see why is ridiculous, I can think of a situation where it could happen w/out the animal being forced to do it, that is consenting and I don't want to be graphic but it could happen. Then a mute person cannot show a way of consenting because consenting only is approved if words are used? A child an animal are 2 different things.

And littlemissmuffet makes an awesome point. Why Christians feel they have the right to dictate something they had no part in creating is just beyond me.....

At least here I don't think no one is telling people what to do ( dictate), now we do have the right to say it out loud, we don't agree with it, we think is wrong and we believe it should stay between a man a woman.
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:03 AM
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I'm wondering if anyone here has changed their mind about this issue, or personally knows someone who has had a change of opinion on this matter. I ask because I have always believed as I do now, and I don't personally know anyone who has changed what they believe. Obviously it happens because opinions today are much different than say 50 years ago. Or are people just more open with their thoughts than they were then?
If your opinion has changed, did something happen that caused you to rethink your position? I'm curious because everyone seems to feel very strongly about where they stand and I can't imagine what could shake someone from it.
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:03 AM
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Oh good grief

Really? Really? You take a perfectly MATURE discussion about a very REAL topic and turn into this?
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:33 AM
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I don't think no one has changes, their opinion, that is why i think is not exactly about changing opinions but about sharing opinions
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:37 AM
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Luna - mine did. 5 years or so ago?

Despite having some pretty conservative values I met three people that changed my entire perspective....the couple I spoke of earlier and a horse trainer who happened to be gay. Before then I knew *of* homosexuals but never had the chance to know any personally. I discovered they aren't monsters, they are no different than anyone else. I saw their families and could no longer justify any prejudice I held. Before then I didn't hate them, but I did think they were different in ways that should have prevented them from being declared legally married. From then on though that thinking made no sense because now they were PEOPLE, not just a label.

Although I am not religious I sure searched my heart and begged God's forgiveness for my misjudgments. I still feel bad about it though I won't let myself forget that if I fudged there I am fallible
in life. I don't know it all, it's not my place to judge....knowing that keeps me humble.

It sickened me to learn that if two women are together for 50 years and one fell ill in the hospital the other wouldn't be allowed to make medical decisions. I love my parents bit it is my SPOUSE who knows my wishes and would be allowed to handle those tough issues. Legally, partners are unable to an that is LUDICROUS. If they adopt children only one can be labeled as an adoptive parent. There is always someone left out in partnerships and no, that's not acceptable to me anymore.


My heart has evolved and I'm so very glad it has. My children will never hear that judgment from me and I think it will help them grow to be more tolerant and peaceful people, which this world definitely needs more of.
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:49 AM
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I don't think no one has changes, their opinion, that is why i think is not exactly about changing opinions but about sharing opinions
I think it's time for you to stop. All the winky and smiley faces in the world aren't going to make anyone think that you are doing anything but reaching for something to prove your point. Which I'm not sure what that is when it comes to your ludicrous views on beastiality. Which I guess in your mind has some connection to gay marriage rights??

Oh.."no offense" and
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by jokalima View Post
I don't think no one has changes, their opinion, that is why i think is not exactly about changing opinions but about sharing opinions
Of course people have changed their opinion! I'm not saying people have changed during this thread, just people sometime in their life have obviously had a change of heart because homosexuality is more accepted today than it has been in the past.
What do you mean by this: ?

Last edited by Luna; 04-03-2013 at 11:18 AM. Reason: Spelling error.
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:19 AM
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Of course people have changed their opinion! I'm not saying people have changed during this thread, just people sometime if their life have obviously had a change of heart because homosexuality is more accepted today than it has been in the past.
What do you mean by this: ?
I think she meant that by having this discussion, did we change any opinions either way. I think no. Discussions probably change very few opinions. Experiences change more.
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:26 AM
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I think it's time for you to stop. All the winky and smiley faces in the world aren't going to make anyone think that you are doing anything but reaching for something to prove your point. Which I'm not sure what that is when it comes to your ludicrous views on beastiality. Which I guess in your mind has some connection to gay marriage rights??

Oh.."no offense" and
Stop what exactly?
It has a connection with sin. I honestly don't know why you get so upset about an issue that does happen today. Just because you don't want to talk about ti it won't make it disappear. Just because I mentioned it does not make me the person that you're are implying that I am. I have not insulted you, I have not attacked you in a personal manner so I ask from you only the same. As far as I know, the smileys are here so we can use them, in another Thread not so long ago, someone said that it was a good Idea to use them so people could understand better where we are coming from, and that is how I use them. I know this is a heated topic and I use them to show I am not coming in an aggressive way. I also know, because I have done this for a while now, that when people get upset they start to attack the person instead of idea. And my ludicrous views on bestiality are exactly what? Do I approve it? Do I think is right? But wait, it's not ludicrous to marry a sister or brother? That is a perfect example of choosing by convenience. You don't like it, skip it and don't mention it again.

Oh and "no offense"? I mean, really?
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:26 AM
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Maybe I worded my question wrong. I didn't mean to ask if this thread discussion has changed anyone's mind. I meant to ask if anyone used to feel differently about this than they do now. Has anyone changed their opinion at any time in their life.
I don't believe anyone's mind will be changed by a discussion, but maybe by life events or circumstances. I'm wondering what those events or circumstances were.
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:27 AM
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One vote for closing this.
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:33 AM
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Of course people have changed their opinion! I'm not saying people have changed during this thread, just people sometime in their life have obviously had a change of heart because homosexuality is more accepted today than it has been in the past.
What do you mean by this: ?
Ok, maybe I did not understood what you meant, I was talking about people here. People out there? Of course, there is that Republican Senator I think, not sure if he a Senator or not, but anyways... He changed his mind after his son came out. So yes, it does happen, agree with you on that. And my goodness, never thought a smiley would bring so much confusion...At least where I am from a wink is used like something nice, like "hey i'm coming from a nice place" something like that? So yup, maybe I did use it in a wrong way. maybe it was more a
And now is really a
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  #247  
Old 04-03-2013, 11:36 AM
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Animals do not talk. They could not be consenting.

This is ridiculous.
Animals communicate maybe not with words but a good wack on the head is enough to get anyone to understand the word NO- Elephants can't talk but they will fight-

Anyways-
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Luna View Post
I'm wondering if anyone here has changed their mind about this issue, or personally knows someone who has had a change of opinion on this matter. I ask because I have always believed as I do now, and I don't personally know anyone who has changed what they believe. Obviously it happens because opinions today are much different than say 50 years ago. Or are people just more open with their thoughts than they were then?
If your opinion has changed, did something happen that caused you to rethink your position? I'm curious because everyone seems to feel very strongly about where they stand and I can't imagine what could shake someone from it.


having a relative that is Gay
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:46 AM
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Luna - mine did. 5 years or so ago?

Despite having some pretty conservative values I met three people that changed my entire perspective....the couple I spoke of earlier and a horse trainer who happened to be gay. Before then I knew *of* homosexuals but never had the chance to know any personally. I discovered they aren't monsters, they are no different than anyone else. I saw their families and could no longer justify any prejudice I held. Before then I didn't hate them, but I did think they were different in ways that should have prevented them from being declared legally married. From then on though that thinking made no sense because now they were PEOPLE, not just a label.

Although I am not religious I sure searched my heart and begged God's forgiveness for my misjudgments. I still feel bad about it though I won't let myself forget that if I fudged there I am fallible
in life. I don't know it all, it's not my place to judge....knowing that keeps me humble.

It sickened me to learn that if two women are together for 50 years and one fell ill in the hospital the other wouldn't be allowed to make medical decisions. I love my parents bit it is my SPOUSE who knows my wishes and would be allowed to handle those tough issues. Legally, partners are unable to an that is LUDICROUS. If they adopt children only one can be labeled as an adoptive parent. There is always someone left out in partnerships and no, that's not acceptable to me anymore.


My heart has evolved and I'm so very glad it has. My children will never hear that judgment from me and I think it will help them grow to be more tolerant and peaceful people, which this world definitely needs more of.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:03 PM
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[/b]

having a relative that is Gay
That would have been my first guess, but I have heard of people who disowned family members who came out. It's good to know that isn't always the case.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:06 PM
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Stop what exactly?
It has a connection with sin. I honestly don't know why you get so upset about an issue that does happen today. Just because you don't want to talk about ti it won't make it disappear. Just because I mentioned it does not make me the person that you're are implying that I am. I have not insulted you, I have not attacked you in a personal manner so I ask from you only the same. As far as I know, the smileys are here so we can use them, in another Thread not so long ago, someone said that it was a good Idea to use them so people could understand better where we are coming from, and that is how I use them. I know this is a heated topic and I use them to show I am not coming in an aggressive way. I also know, because I have done this for a while now, that when people get upset they start to attack the person instead of idea. And my ludicrous views on bestiality are exactly what? Do I approve it? Do I think is right? But wait, it's not ludicrous to marry a sister or brother? That is a perfect example of choosing by convenience. You don't like it, skip it and don't mention it again.

Oh and "no offense"? I mean, really?
Yes, really. That's called sarcasm my dear
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  #252  
Old 04-03-2013, 12:08 PM
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Animals communicate maybe not with words but a good wack on the head is enough to get anyone to understand the word NO- Elephants can't talk but they will fight-

Anyways-
I don't believe that qualifies as consent if they don't wack someone on the head.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:09 PM
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Yes, really. That's called sarcasm my dear
I really don't see the point of what you are doing or the need for it. What is your objective?
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  #254  
Old 04-03-2013, 12:11 PM
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:12 PM
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I really don't see the point of what you are doing or the need for it. What is your objective?
That's funny because I don't see the point of your inclusion of beastiality in a gay marriage discussion.

Guess we are both at a loss there, sweetness.

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Old 04-03-2013, 12:21 PM
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Wow. Let's close.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:29 PM
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Well, so much for a civil discussion
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:44 PM
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Dang, it looks like I've missed a live one, here - I guess I need to do some reading tonight .

FTR I have no issues with gay marriage.
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  #259  
Old 04-03-2013, 02:24 PM
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Pedophiles, beasteality, and toasters....oh my!!!! Hard to believe where this thread started.

Crystal: You did a great job getting "our" mind off of breastfeeding! ....I was tempted to ask how the forum feels about married breastfeeding lesbians but I won't!!!!
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  #260  
Old 04-03-2013, 02:33 PM
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I did not read much of this, but saw that it got a little off track so to speak. Or maybe just a little heated??

For me where I come from this would never fly....BUT living in usa for so long, I have learned so much.

I could never stand in the way of LOVE, no matter where it came from...
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:38 PM
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I did not read much of this, but saw that it got a little off track so to speak. Or maybe just a little heated??

For me where I come from this would never fly....BUT living in usa for so long, I have learned so much.

I could never stand in the way of LOVE, no matter where it came from...
Daycare-you have missed quiet a few "conversations/debates" this last month or so. It might take a few days to catch up with everything-

One poll besides the "gay marriage" was one on breastfeeding, then there was an entire discussion on breast feeding but under another heading.

There are also two polls going in "Providers Only" area on Marijuana and prostitution. Its been crazy wild around here girl!
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  #262  
Old 04-03-2013, 02:45 PM
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Daycare-you have missed quiet a few "conversations/debates" this last month or so. It might take a few days to catch up with everything-

One poll besides the "gay marriage" was one on breastfeeding, then there was an entire discussion on breast feeding but under another heading.

There are also two polls going in "Providers Only" area on Marijuana and prostitution. Its been crazy wild around here girl!
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  #263  
Old 04-03-2013, 02:53 PM
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wow sounds very interesting.... more than my tv.

doubt that I will have time to read,

but what is the providers area only? boy I have really been out to lunch... I think???? lol
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  #264  
Old 04-03-2013, 02:59 PM
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wow sounds very interesting.... more than my tv.

doubt that I will have time to read,

but what is the providers area only? boy I have really been out to lunch... I think???? lol
Whoops, meant the "Off Topic" area. Its on the main page that has all the areas to post in.
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  #265  
Old 04-03-2013, 03:00 PM
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I personally don't care what other people do.

However with that said, I do think marriage should be between a man and a woman.

That doesn't mean though that I don't think gay and lesbian couples shouldn't be allowed to have civil unions or be lawfully joined so they too can receive the benefits and perks that married folks do.

I just don't agree with the term "marriage" and although others may feel that is wrong or not socially acceptable, I don't care. It is what I believe and that isn't going to change.

I have no issues with gay/lesbian couples who want to raise children and do all the same things other couples do. I am not one bit prejudice or biased against anyone who wants to be in a committed relationship with the person they love. Whether that person is the same sex as them or not.
I agree with this post and the part of civil union. I also have another view on it which may not be so popular. I do have an issue with gay couples raising children. I have seen many children of gay couples that are completely screwed up. I have a sister who is lesbian and is about to have gender reassignment surgery. I found out she was gay about 30 years ago. In the past thirty years I have spent a huge amount of time with gay people. For about ten years almost all of my friends were gay. The came from all walks of life. To be honest, I was drawn to them because I was so lost myself. With the exception of a handful out of hundreds, I found them to be attention seekers with poor self worth with victimizing thinking and a lack of commitment to their own best interests and anyone else's. I have also found them to be unusually preoccupied with sex and sexual thoughts and have only known one person who is still in the same committed relationship ten years later. I am sure there are more out there, but I never knew any. Gay pride is a perfect example of what I am saying. Gay men and women do not have to go on their walk dressed as the opposite sex, or barely dressed at all to fight for their cause. I believe pride actually harms their cause and further stereotypes them to the population who has not experiences first had being around gay people to determine their own views from ever day interaction.

Based upon my personal experiences and some of the negative qualities I have mentioned above, I do not think that committed relationships to be the norm for gay people. I also think that marriage was created based upon religion and it is often held in churches. If a church does not agree with gay marriage the should not have to perform a gay marriage.

I say, if gay people want to be united for life, let it be a civil union.
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:00 PM
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Whoops, meant the "Off Topic" area. Its on the main page that has all the areas to post in.
oh guess I can see all of them... I just don't know how to respond to them....... lol
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:03 PM
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That's funny because I don't see the point of your inclusion of beastiality in a gay marriage discussion.

Guess we are both at a loss there, sweetness.

Because so many other things were included, we ended up talking about religion, incest, adultery and other things that are not accepted by society. I did not mean to hurt you or anyone else with it, just asked about it like any other behavior that is not accepted. I do understand that you are still being sarcastic with me and I've asked you kindly to stop, and I'll ask again, please stop. The way you are handling the situation confirms my comments about intolerance.

Is it the right thing to do? Is that what we are supposed to do? Don't agree with something or don't like what someone says so just bash against them? Focus on the theme, the questions being asked and the idea, leave the person on the side. Thanks
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:06 PM
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I say, if gay people want to be united for life, let it be a civil union

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Old 04-03-2013, 03:11 PM
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I agree with this post and the part of civil union. I also have another view on it which may not be so popular. I do have an issue with gay couples raising children. I have seen many children of gay couples that are completely screwed up. I have a sister who is lesbian and is about to have gender reassignment surgery. I found out she was gay about 30 years ago. In the past thirty years I have spent a huge amount of time with gay people. For about ten years almost all of my friends were gay. The came from all walks of life. To be honest, I was drawn to them because I was so lost myself. With the exception of a handful out of hundreds, I found them to be attention seekers with poor self worth with victimizing thinking and a lack of commitment to their own best interests and anyone else's. I have also found them to be unusually preoccupied with sex and sexual thoughts and have only known one person who is still in the same committed relationship ten years later. I am sure there are more out there, but I never knew any. Gay pride is a perfect example of what I am saying. Gay men and women do not have to go on their walk dressed as the opposite sex, or barely dressed at all to fight for their cause. I believe pride actually harms their cause and further stereotypes them to the population who has not experiences first had being around gay people to determine their own views from ever day interaction.

Based upon my personal experiences and some of the negative qualities I have mentioned above, I do not think that committed relationships to be the norm for gay people. I also think that marriage was created based upon religion and it is often held in churches. If a church does not agree with gay marriage the should not have to perform a gay marriage.

I say, if gay people want to be united for life, let it be a civil union.
Aaaaaaand here we are coming full circle lol

Extremists ruined that for you, extremist in your face breastfeeders ruined it for me.


I get that on some level, but would ask you to consider the current divorce rate and how many heterosexual parents have screwed up their children and were completely preoccupied with sex.....does that mean those jilted heterosexuals should be able to prevent us ALL from marrying someone?
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:14 PM
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This was posted on my facebook wall today, so I thought I would share. I know that a lot (most, I hope) of people who support gay marriage don't think this way, but it shows the dangerous place this can topic can and is leading to.

Unfortunately, I do believe there is a slippery slope associated with legalizing gay marriage, and it's already starting.

Scary stuff.

http://www.rethinksociety.com/govern...under-ca-bill/
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  #271  
Old 04-03-2013, 03:31 PM
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You will notice that no where in your post have you asked me to "stop being sarcastic". You are not a victim, calm down. Let me break this down for you and then I am done. Promise.

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What about bestiality? If the animal is all willing to engage in a sexual relationship with a person? 2 sides would be consenting, right?
This is a ridiculous question and you know it. It was not asked out of curiosity, it was asked to try to prove a point of what I am still not sure other than something about sinning.

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Originally Posted by jokalima View Post
If that is your thought process then do you also believe children being molested are consenting parties? Many.have no idea that what's happening is wrong so don't.know to say no, fight back or tell.


I don't see why is ridiculous, I can think of a situation where it could happen w/out the animal being forced to do it, that is consenting and I don't want to be graphic but it could happen. Then a mute person cannot show a way of consenting because consenting only is approved if words are used? A child an animal are 2 different things.


And littlemissmuffet makes an awesome point. Why Christians feel they have the right to dictate something they had no part in creating is just beyond me.....

At least here I don't think no one is telling people what to do ( dictate), now we do have the right to say it out loud, we don't agree with it, we think is wrong and we believe it should stay between a man a woman.
You actually contradict yourself here. You try to draw some sort of connection from gay marriage rights to bestiality and then you say it yourself, "a child an animal are 2 different things". There you go, its ANOTHER SPECIES. Completely irrelevant to this argument about HUMAN RIGHTS.

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Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
Oh good grief

Really? Really? You take a perfectly MATURE discussion about a very REAL topic and turn into this?
Example of someone else who thinks this argument is silly.

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Originally Posted by jokalima View Post
Stop what exactly?
It has a connection with sin. I honestly don't know why you get so upset about an issue that does happen today. Just because you don't want to talk about ti it won't make it disappear. Just because I mentioned it does not make me the person that you're are implying that I am. I have not insulted you, I have not attacked you in a personal manner so I ask from you only the same. As far as I know, the smileys are here so we can use them, in another Thread not so long ago, someone said that it was a good Idea to use them so people could understand better where we are coming from, and that is how I use them. I know this is a heated topic and I use them to show I am not coming in an aggressive way. I also know, because I have done this for a while now, that when people get upset they start to attack the person instead of idea. And my ludicrous views on bestiality are exactly what? Do I approve it? Do I think is right? But wait, it's not ludicrous to marry a sister or brother? That is a perfect example of choosing by convenience. You don't like it, skip it and don't mention it again.

Oh and "no offense"? I mean, really?
I get heated when people spew nonsense and then try to hide behind it with this Sorry I have a low tolerance for BS.

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Originally Posted by jokalima View Post
I really don't see the point of what you are doing or the need for it. What is your objective?
No where in these posts have you asked me to stop being sarcastic. I did ask you to stop trying to make this weak argument though.

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Originally Posted by jokalima View Post
Because so many other things were included, we ended up talking about religion, incest, adultery and other things that are not accepted by society. I did not mean to hurt you or anyone else with it, just asked about it like any other behavior that is not accepted. I do understand that you are still being sarcastic with me and I've asked you kindly to stop, and I'll ask again, please stop. The way you are handling the situation confirms my comments about intolerance.

Is it the right thing to do? Is that what we are supposed to do? Don't agree with something or don't like what someone says so just bash against them? Focus on the theme, the questions being asked and the idea, leave the person on the side. Thanks

I agree with you that you have a right to not agree with gay marriage rights. You even have a right to express that.

However, if you are going to insult the gay community by implying that giving them their rights will make way for interspecies sexual encounters, expect someone to disagree with you.

Done.
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:34 PM
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This was posted on my facebook wall today, so I thought I would share. I know that a lot (most, I hope) of people who support gay marriage don't think this way, but it shows the dangerous place this can topic can and is leading to.

Unfortunately, I do believe there is a slippery slope associated with legalizing gay marriage, and it's already starting.

Scary stuff.

http://www.rethinksociety.com/govern...under-ca-bill/
Super important to consider your source...In this case, rethinksociety.com is pretty biased. So...I went and read the legislation. I thought it was really odd that if such wording was present that the author didn't quote it. Anyway, no such wording regarding pedophilia is present in the bill.

The bill is only aimed at protecting minors from anti-gay conversion therapy.

Here is the link to the bill...

http://speier.house.gov/images/shok-...resolution.pdf
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  #273  
Old 04-03-2013, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by bluemoose_mom View Post
This was posted on my facebook wall today, so I thought I would share. I know that a lot (most, I hope) of people who support gay marriage don't think this way, but it shows the dangerous place this can topic can and is leading to.

Unfortunately, I do believe there is a slippery slope associated with legalizing gay marriage, and it's already starting.

Scary stuff.

http://www.rethinksociety.com/govern...under-ca-bill/
It's a slippery slope?? Give me a break.

Surely you are able to process that being a homosexual and being a pedophile are WORLDS apart, correct?
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:37 PM
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Again, I think a couple posters really need to take a step back and STOP!

This was a very interesting, educational and civil discussion.

But obviously two of you have gotten under each other's skin and I think it is time to stop and just walk away.

Please......

Let's not HAVE to close every single thread that is controversial. Doesn't say much for our ability to be adult-like does it?
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  #275  
Old 04-03-2013, 03:39 PM
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Aaaaaaand here we are coming full circle lol

Extremists ruined that for you, extremist in your face breastfeeders ruined it for me.


I get that on some level, but would ask you to consider the current divorce rate and how many heterosexual parents have screwed up their children and were completely preoccupied with sex.....does that mean those jilted heterosexuals should be able to prevent us ALL from marrying someone?
Took the words right out of my mouth!
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  #276  
Old 04-03-2013, 03:41 PM
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I say, if gay people want to be united for life, let it be a civil union

Yep, that is all I have to say.....
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  #277  
Old 04-03-2013, 03:42 PM
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You will notice that no where in your post have you asked me to "stop being sarcastic". You are not a victim, calm down. Let me break this down for you and then I am done. Promise.



This is a ridiculous question and you know it. It was not asked out of curiosity, it was asked to try to prove a point of what I am still not sure other than something about sinning.



You actually contradict yourself here. You try to draw some sort of connection from gay marriage rights to bestiality and then you say it yourself, "a child an animal are 2 different things". There you go, its ANOTHER SPECIES. Completely irrelevant to this argument about HUMAN RIGHTS.



Example of someone else who thinks this argument is silly.



I get heated when people spew nonsense and then try to hide behind it with this Sorry I have a low tolerance for BS.



No where in these posts have you asked me to stop being sarcastic. I did ask you to stop trying to make this weak argument though.




I agree with you that you have a right to not agree with gay marriage rights. You even have a right to express that.

However, if you are going to insult the gay community by implying that giving them their rights will make way for interspecies sexual encounters, expect someone to disagree with you.

Done.
And I think you are capable of respectfully disagreeing, all I am asking. I do believe the acceptance of gay marriage will open many doors, don't agree with me? Fine, you can be polite about it. And if is so silly, then don't waste your time on it.
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  #278  
Old 04-03-2013, 04:24 PM
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I don't have the time to read the bill, I will tonight some time. I did want to respond to whether or not I think there is a difference between gay marriage and pedophilia (reading the bill will perhaps change the facts behind my opinion, but won't change my opinion).

Yes, *I* do think that there is a difference. A huge difference. That doesn't mean that other people think there isn't a difference, or state legislature doesn't think differently or that pedophiles also think their rights aren't being infringed on.

I will read the bill later, however and perhaps should have before I posted.
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:35 PM
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Now I understand.

Sorry if mine came across harsh, Bluemoose. I'm hungry and irritated.
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:47 PM
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Super important to consider your source...In this case, rethinksociety.com is pretty biased. So...I went and read the legislation. I thought it was really odd that if such wording was present that the author didn't quote it. Anyway, no such wording regarding pedophilia is present in the bill.

The bill is only aimed at protecting minors from anti-gay conversion therapy.

Here is the link to the bill...

http://speier.house.gov/images/shok-...resolution.pdf
Yes, I'm assuming rethinksociety.com must be conservative... HOWEVER, I def don't agree with it being any more biased though than CNN or some other news media & it's merely giving the public information that they might not otherwise hear in the general news, which instead tends to be more liberal based.

The following is a quote from that article:
Republicans attempted to add an amendment specifying that, “pedophilia is not covered as an orientation.” However, the Democrats defeated the amendment. Rep. Alcee Hastings (D-FL) stated that all alternative sexual lifestyles should be protected under the law, and accordingly decided that pedophilia is a sexual orientation that should be equally as embraced as homosexuality.

“This language is so broad and vague, it arguably could include all forms of sexual orientation, including pedophilia,” said Brad Dacus, president of the Pacific Justice Institute. “It’s not just the orientation that is protected—the conduct associated with the orientation is protected as well.”


By not allowing this bill to clearly stipulate the "exclusion" of pedophilia being equally embraced, it opens up the door to lawyers finding "grey" areas to twist the law to fit and justify their own means...AND this is VERY SCARY indeed....AND A SLIPPERY SLOPE!
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  #281  
Old 04-03-2013, 04:51 PM
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I don't have the time to read the bill, I will tonight some time. I did want to respond to whether or not I think there is a difference between gay marriage and pedophilia (reading the bill will perhaps change the facts behind my opinion, but won't change my opinion).

Yes, *I* do think that there is a difference. A huge difference. That doesn't mean that other people think there isn't a difference, or state legislature doesn't think differently or that pedophiles also think their rights aren't being infringed on.

I will read the bill later, however and perhaps should have before I posted.
It's not long...about 7 pages, but the wording is quite specific. ONLY gender and homosexuality is discussed.
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  #282  
Old 04-03-2013, 04:55 PM
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Yes, I'm assuming rethinksociety.com must be conservative... HOWEVER, I def don't agree with it being any more biased though than CNN or some other news media & it's merely giving the public information that they might not otherwise hear in the general news, which instead tends to be more liberal based.

The following is a quote from that article:
Republicans attempted to add an amendment specifying that, “pedophilia is not covered as an orientation.” However, the Democrats defeated the amendment. Rep. Alcee Hastings (D-FL) stated that all alternative sexual lifestyles should be protected under the law, and accordingly decided that pedophilia is a sexual orientation that should be equally as embraced as homosexuality.

“This language is so broad and vague, it arguably could include all forms of sexual orientation, including pedophilia,” said Brad Dacus, president of the Pacific Justice Institute. “It’s not just the orientation that is protected—the conduct associated with the orientation is protected as well.”


By not allowing this bill to clearly stipulate the "exclusion" of pedophilia being equally embraced, it opens up the door to lawyers finding "grey" areas to twist the law to fit and justify their own means...AND this is VERY SCARY indeed....AND A SLIPPERY SLOPE!
All of that could have been taken out of context and skewed to match their agenda. I'm not saying this is the case, but it happens a lot.
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  #283  
Old 04-03-2013, 05:03 PM
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All of that could have been taken out of context and skewed to match their agenda. I'm not saying this is the case, but it happens a lot.
YES, this certainly can happen BOTH ways!

However, I am still alarmed with individuals fighting and insisting that this law NOT be completely clear cut to rule out any arbitration.
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  #284  
Old 04-03-2013, 05:05 PM
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Yes, I'm assuming rethinksociety.com must be conservative... HOWEVER, I def don't agree with it being any more biased though than CNN or some other news media & it's merely giving the public information that they might not otherwise hear in the general news, which instead tends to be more liberal based.

The following is a quote from that article:
Republicans attempted to add an amendment specifying that, “pedophilia is not covered as an orientation.” However, the Democrats defeated the amendment. Rep. Alcee Hastings (D-FL) stated that all alternative sexual lifestyles should be protected under the law, and accordingly decided that pedophilia is a sexual orientation that should be equally as embraced as homosexuality.

“This language is so broad and vague, it arguably could include all forms of sexual orientation, including pedophilia,” said Brad Dacus, president of the Pacific Justice Institute. “It’s not just the orientation that is protected—the conduct associated with the orientation is protected as well.”


By not allowing this bill to clearly stipulate the "exclusion" of pedophilia being equally embraced, it opens up the door to lawyers finding "grey" areas to twist the law to fit and justify their own means...AND this is VERY SCARY indeed....AND A SLIPPERY SLOPE!
Please, please read the bill before you post. The reason that the "exclusion" was denied is because the Bill has nothing to do with pedophilia. The bill has nothing to do with Adults! The Bill is only designed to protect minors.

Why do you think major new agencies aren't covering this "story"?
Why do you think that there are not quotes from the Bill itself?
Why do you think that there is not a link to the Bill where people can see for themselves the very scary, slippery slope????

This is a very clear case of Republicans attempting to link homosexuality with pedophilia, which is sadly common...you only need to read this thread to see that.

From the Bill:

"Expressing the sense of Congress efforts by Mental Health practitioners to change an individuals sexual orientation and gender identity or expression are dangerous and harmful and should be prohibited from being practiced on minors.

Whereas being lesbian, gay, bisexual or gender non-conforming is not a disorder, disease, illness, deficiency, or shortcoming."

Can you truly not see how bringing pedophilia in to this is prejudicial to gay people? Not to mention, pedophilia is listed as a mental disorder in the American Psychological Diagnostic Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders...

We have to stop letting ignorance and fear be used to denigrate people we don't understand.
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  #285  
Old 04-03-2013, 05:06 PM
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Please, please read the bill before you post. The reason that the "exclusion" was denied is because the Bill has nothing to do with pedophilia. The bill has nothing to do with Adults! The Bill is only designed to protect minors.

Why do you think major new agencies aren't covering this "story"?
Why do you think that there are not quotes from the Bill itself?
Why do you think that there is not a link to the Bill where people can see for themselves the very scary, slippery slope????

This is a very clear case of Republicans attempting to link homosexuality with pedophilia, which is sadly common...you only need to read this thread to see that.
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  #286  
Old 04-03-2013, 05:09 PM
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I am going to ask a question and one I'm not sure of, that is why I'm asking.

If a person (either sex) picks the same sex child as themselves for victims does that make the pdiphile (sp?) gay? So if you have a man that always picks boys (many do) does that make the man homosexual? You hear of men that "like little boys" and I've wondered is it a power thing or what and why the attraction to little boys and not girls.

I know there are woman (seems rare though) that go after children but have never heard of woman going after girls, just usually boys.

This has nothing to do with gay marriage at all but just a question I had.
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jen View Post
Please, please read the bill before you post. The reason that the "exclusion" was denied is because the Bill has nothing to do with pedophilia. The bill has nothing to do with Adults! The Bill is only designed to protect minors.

Why do you think major new agencies aren't covering this "story"?
Why do you think that there are not quotes from the Bill itself?
Why do you think that there is not a link to the Bill where people can see for themselves the very scary, slippery slope????

This is a very clear case of Republicans attempting to link homosexuality with pedophilia, which is sadly common...you only need to read this thread to see that.
PLEASE DO NOT insult MY intelligence and I take serious offense to your statements.

The major news agencies aren't covering this because they are liberal minded and have their own opposing agenda!

The quotes came from the article, because the "exclusion" to clarify was rejected! Are you kidding me?!

The article speaks for itself...no link is necessary when you read what transpired. Most people can clearly see the slippery slope we are on.

Furthermore, to infer that Republicans are attempting to link pedophilia with homosexuality is utterly appalling.
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  #288  
Old 04-03-2013, 05:29 PM
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PLEASE DO NOT insult MY intelligence and I take serious offense to your statements.

The major news agencies aren't covering this because they are liberal minded and have their own opposing agenda!

The quotes came from the article, because the "exclusion" to clarify was rejected! Are you kidding me?!

The article speaks for itself...no link is necessary when you read what transpired. Most people can clearly see the slippery slope we are on.

Furthermore, to infer that Republicans are attempting to link pedophilia with homosexuality is utterly appalling.
With all due respect...


How can you determine if the article is correct without reading the bill?

Again, this bill has nothing to do with ADULT sexuality or gender. This is only a bill about MINORS.

Republicans asked for an amendment to add a provision about pedophilia, the bill is not about pedophilia, it is about CHILDREN undergoing gender or sexual orientation conversion therapy.

In other words, This bill makes it illegal for a therapist/mental health professional/Dr. to practice conversion therapies on minors.

I have no intention of insulting your intelligence. I'm just requesting that you look at the Bill before drawing conclusions. Also, the "liberal minded" Fox News also failed to cover this.
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  #289  
Old 04-03-2013, 05:34 PM
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I am going to ask a question and one I'm not sure of, that is why I'm asking.

If a person (either sex) picks the same sex child as themselves for victims does that make the pdiphile (sp?) gay? So if you have a man that always picks boys (many do) does that make the man homosexual? You hear of men that "like little boys" and I've wondered is it a power thing or what and why the attraction to little boys and not girls.

I know there are woman (seems rare though) that go after children but have never heard of woman going after girls, just usually boys.

This has nothing to do with gay marriage at all but just a question I had.
I think that it's probably a case by case basis whether or not the pedophile would be gay. If they picked the same sex, they would certainly have some gay tendencies I would think. But it could be just about power some times, like you said.
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:35 PM
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I am going to ask a question and one I'm not sure of, that is why I'm asking.

If a person (either sex) picks the same sex child as themselves for victims does that make the pdiphile (sp?) gay? So if you have a man that always picks boys (many do) does that make the man homosexual? You hear of men that "like little boys" and I've wondered is it a power thing or what and why the attraction to little boys and not girls.

I know there are woman (seems rare though) that go after children but have never heard of woman going after girls, just usually boys.

This has nothing to do with gay marriage at all but just a question I had.
I would say no. In my opinion, molestation is, like rape, about power and control, not sex.

I
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  #291  
Old 04-03-2013, 05:49 PM
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I wouldn't say its irrelevant. You cant tell married people that they can't procreate. But for a hypothetical situation, sure. Marry your brother. Marry three of your brothers. Everyone is consenting, their life does not affect my life.
I stayed away from this for a looong time but I just wanted to say ^THIS!

Also, I 100% agree with everything you have said in this thread Cedar. My thoughts exactly
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  #292  
Old 04-03-2013, 05:59 PM
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With all due respect...


How can you determine if the article is correct without reading the bill?

Again, this bill has nothing to do with ADULT sexuality or gender. This is only a bill about MINORS.

Republicans asked for an amendment to add a provision about pedophilia, the bill is not about pedophilia, it is about CHILDREN undergoing gender or sexual orientation conversion therapy.

In other words, This bill makes it illegal for a therapist/mental health professional/Dr. to practice conversion therapies on minors.

I have no intention of insulting your intelligence. I'm just requesting that you look at the Bill before drawing conclusions.
I'm not going to waste my time debating this any further....Ultimately it comes down to one thing... the liberal mantra is "Don't push your morality on me" and so in turn... Don't push your morality on me or lack of it.

Republicans/Conservatives are constantly being beat down and told to compromise. Geez, when was the last time the Socialist/Liberal minded ever compromised on anything!

Since there is so much resistance (CA voters voted not once, but twice on legalizing gay marriage and it was denied both times), people need to reconsider whether there is a slippery slope that the liberal policies are creating both financially and socially.
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  #293  
Old 04-03-2013, 06:14 PM
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Wow havent been on her in a day or two and didn't know this would still be going on. Bottom line in my opinion is if its not happening in your house then it shouldn't bother you. And if it bothers you just to see two gay people walking holding hands then you have a serious problem.
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  #294  
Old 04-03-2013, 08:09 PM
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Okay, I read the bill, and you are correct that it does not talk about pedophilia at all. It is only talking about minor gay conversion therapy, and the title, and article are a little misleading.

I do agree that sexual orientation needs to be defined as gay or lesbian in this bill, to avoid ANY confusion because homosexuality and pedophilia is very different. It is very concerning to me that they didn't want to define it, and blocked an amendment to define their terms. I would think that this is an area they wouldn't want any grey area's. This is what Rep. Alcee Hastings said about this bill, "Republicans attempted to add an amendment specifying “pedophilia is not covered as an orientation.” However, the amendment was defeated by Democrats. Rep. Alcee Hastings, D-Fla., stated that all alternative sexual lifestyles should be protected under the law.

“This bill addresses our resolve to end violence based on prejudice and to guarantee that all Americans, regardless of race, color, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability or all of these ‘philias’ and fetishes and ‘isms’ that were put forward need not live in fear because of who they are. I urge my colleagues to vote in favor of this rule,” he said while Congress was considering the plan ."(http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/plan-prom...lASIGWjizcp.99)

Canada also has psychologists saying that pedophilia is a sexual orientation just like homosexuality or heterosexuality.

"Hubert Van Gijseghem, a psychologist and retired professor at the University of Montreal, told members of Parliament, “Pedophiles are not simply people who commit a small offense from time to time but rather are grappling with what is equivalent to a sexual orientation just like another individual may be grappling with heterosexuality or even homosexuality.”

He went on to say: “True pedophiles have an exclusive preference for children, which is the same as having a sexual orientation. You cannot change this person’s sexual orientation. He may, however, remain abstinent.”

When asked if he should be comparing pedophiles to homosexuals, Van Gijseghem replied, “If, for instance, you were living in a society where heterosexuality is proscribed or prohibited and you were told that you had to get therapy to change your sexual orientation, you would probably say that that is slightly crazy. In other words, you would not accept that at all. I use this analogy to say that, yes indeed, pedophiles do not change their sexual orientation.”

http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/plan-prom...lASIGWjizcp.99

I do see grey area's that lawyers can argue that pedophilia is a sexual orientation and needs protection. In fact, Harvard Medical School defines pedophilia as a sexual orientation. In it's July 2010 publication, Harvard Health Publication says, "Pedophilia is a sexual orientation and unlikely to change. Treatment aims to enable someone to resist acting on his sexual urges." http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsle...out-pedophilia

I see the difference, as I'm sure homosexuals do, as well as supporters of gay marriage. All I'm saying is, legalizing gay marriage will open doors to people who want to use these grey area's.

In all honesty, I believe gay marriage should not be allowed (civil unions should be okay).

I am on the fence as to whether or not the federal government has any say in it. And have a hard time reconciling these two thoughts.
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  #295  
Old 04-03-2013, 08:13 PM
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Wow havent been on her in a day or two and didn't know this would still be going on. Bottom line in my opinion is if its not happening in your house then it shouldn't bother you. And if it bothers you just to see two gay people walking holding hands then you have a serious problem.
It actually doesn't "bother" me! I have a gay nephew & sister in law and several gay friends as well. It's actually quite commom place where I live.

My only objection is to gay "marriage." They already have all of the same rights as married couples in their "civil union"...but NOW that is not good enough and they want it to be called "marriage." I do take issue with this, because I feel marriage is defined between a woman and a man and yes, some may look as it as a technicality or just some stupid word, but to me "marriage is sacred!"

IMHO- call it anything else you want and ensure every right is the same for equality sake and make sure that no one is discriminated against for their sexual orientation...BUT leave the word "marriage" out of the mix!

Last edited by mom2many; 04-03-2013 at 08:16 PM. Reason: wording
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  #296  
Old 04-04-2013, 12:27 AM
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It actually doesn't "bother" me! I have a gay nephew & sister in law and several gay friends as well. It's actually quite commom place where I live.

My only objection is to gay "marriage." They already have all of the same rights as married couples in their "civil union"...but NOW that is not good enough and they want it to be called "marriage." I do take issue with this, because I feel marriage is defined between a woman and a man and yes, some may look as it as a technicality or just some stupid word, but to me "marriage is sacred!"

IMHO- call it anything else you want and ensure every right is the same for equality sake and make sure that no one is discriminated against for their sexual orientation...BUT leave the word "marriage" out of the mix!
Marriage is sacred because it is between two PEOPLE who love each other. No matter their gender. And i find it odd that you say that they want their civil union to be called marriage like they are asking for the world or something. They just want it to be called marriage that isn't asking a lot. Either way it go they can be married now in most states and in the future probably all so people who don't like it are just going to have to deal with it.
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  #297  
Old 04-04-2013, 06:15 AM
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mom2many, I was able to read your reply when Candy quoted what you wrote and am wondering how on earth you've drawn the conclusion that a civil union entitles gay couples to the same rights as heterosexual couples?

Civil unions are only recognized on a state level, and only a fraction of states currently recognize them. I can go to any state in my country and still be acknowledged as married. Someone with a civil union however is incredibly restricted, and they are not at all recognized on a federal level. If your partner dies or you both do and you have surviving minor children there are NONE of the benefits married couples have.

To repeat:
Civil unions are NOT the same, and only a fraction of the people in this country have the right to them based entirely on their geographical location at present. They are a stepping stone to equality - but just as simply letting an African American sit next to you at a restaurant was it's merely a drop in the hat. Should that have been "good enough" for them still not being allowed to vote?
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  #298  
Old 04-04-2013, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by mom2many View Post
PLEASE DO NOT insult MY intelligence and I take serious offense to your statements.

The major news agencies aren't covering this because they are liberal minded and have their own opposing agenda!

The quotes came from the article, because the "exclusion" to clarify was rejected! Are you kidding me?!

The article speaks for itself...no link is necessary when you read what transpired. Most people can clearly see the slippery slope we are on.

Furthermore, to infer that Republicans are attempting to link pedophilia with homosexuality is utterly appalling.
Just like they don't give enough coverage to other things like abortion because of the same reason.
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  #299  
Old 04-04-2013, 06:37 AM
Willow Willow is offline
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Just like they don't give enough coverage to other things like abortion because of the same reason.
Maybe this is a location thing because I swear abortion is in the news near daily and it makes me absolutely sick.

Just yesterday alone there was loads of coverage on the woman suing the abortion clinic for her "failed abortion" as well as more details and reactions on ND's ban.


There is no way anyone could avoid the topic here so I have no clue what you're talking about.
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  #300  
Old 04-04-2013, 06:52 AM
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Abortion makes the news here a lot too. But this is Texas. Super red state.
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