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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Has Anyone Had To Term A Nice Family Because They Wouldn't Take No For An Answer?
MaritimeMummy 05:18 AM 09-28-2012
...because the parents kept broaching the subject of doing "extra hours" outside of daycare hours and you were tired of going around in circles?
This is about the third time since she started with me in March that she's asked me if I could keep her daughter outside of my 7am to 6pm window, consistently, to accommodate her struggling business. She's even asked me for overnight care at one point. Not just to do it one time, but frequently. I am sure that had nothing to do with her business but she just wants to go out and party...
I do NOT do overnight care, evening care, or weekend care. I say in my contract that I can do emergency care or a "date night" once a month outside of my normal business hours for $10 an hour. But nothing on a regular basis, and only if I am available. Since I am not available most evenings and weekends due to being with my family, and she knows this, I don't know why it keeps becoming an issue. I am getting extremely uncomfortable with her asking me to do this. It was discussed during the interview that if they want to go see a movie maybe once a month I could accommodate that ONLY ON MY SCHEDULE. I mean really, asking once should be enough. I'm beginning to get extremely fed up with her asking. Sure, I say no each time, and I am diplomatic about it, but I have stressed to her many times that my husband is gone 15 hours a day, he appreciates having alone time with his kids during supper and their bed time, and then down time after they go to bed.
Honestly, I should not have to continually remind her that I don't provide that kind of care. Just getting frustrated with constantly hearing the same sob story during drop off time, with her trying to talk to me for half an hour about it while I keep trying to end the conversation and leave to attend to the kids.
Problem is that other than constantly pestering me about evening and weekend care, they are a perfectly lovely family and her daughter has adjusted so well here.
For the record, the last time DCM asked me to do this, I specifically said, "No, I don't provide that kind of care. If you need that kind of care, I could refer you to a very nice teenager for babysitting". I think she thinks that if she asks me enough, she will wear me down and I'll eventually say yes.
Is this a term-able issue? I'm just so fed up with going around in circles.
This is about the third time since she started with me in March that she's asked me if I could keep her daughter outside of my 7am to 6pm window, consistently, to accommodate her struggling business. She's even asked me for overnight care at one point. Not just to do it one time, but frequently. I am sure that had nothing to do with her business but she just wants to go out and party...
I do NOT do overnight care, evening care, or weekend care. I say in my contract that I can do emergency care or a "date night" once a month outside of my normal business hours for $10 an hour. But nothing on a regular basis, and only if I am available. Since I am not available most evenings and weekends due to being with my family, and she knows this, I don't know why it keeps becoming an issue. I am getting extremely uncomfortable with her asking me to do this. It was discussed during the interview that if they want to go see a movie maybe once a month I could accommodate that ONLY ON MY SCHEDULE. I mean really, asking once should be enough. I'm beginning to get extremely fed up with her asking. Sure, I say no each time, and I am diplomatic about it, but I have stressed to her many times that my husband is gone 15 hours a day, he appreciates having alone time with his kids during supper and their bed time, and then down time after they go to bed.
Honestly, I should not have to continually remind her that I don't provide that kind of care. Just getting frustrated with constantly hearing the same sob story during drop off time, with her trying to talk to me for half an hour about it while I keep trying to end the conversation and leave to attend to the kids.
Problem is that other than constantly pestering me about evening and weekend care, they are a perfectly lovely family and her daughter has adjusted so well here.
For the record, the last time DCM asked me to do this, I specifically said, "No, I don't provide that kind of care. If you need that kind of care, I could refer you to a very nice teenager for babysitting". I think she thinks that if she asks me enough, she will wear me down and I'll eventually say yes.
Is this a term-able issue? I'm just so fed up with going around in circles.
lovemykidstoo 05:24 AM 09-28-2012
You did what I would have suggested and offered to give her a babysitters number. I guess if she is so rude to keep asking, then don't be worried about being blunt with her and just tell her. Look DCM, I feel really bad telling you everytime you ask that I cannot do it. I'm sorry, but it makes me feel bad when you keep asking because it's not something I do. Seriously, I can give you the name of a babysitter that would be more than happy to help you. End of story! Sometimes you have to write it out with a crayon. I think you're generous for doing 1 night a month for $10 an hour. I would not even do that. Sometimes when you try to be nice and do something like the 1 night a month it opens it up for additional offer. Maybe get rid of that 1 night a month and say because your family life is so busy, you just can't offer any special night care.
Cat Herder 05:26 AM 09-28-2012
You can term an adult for any reason, or no reason at all. 
Maybe approach it as " Mary, We have had this discussion many times and frankly, I need you to stop. Today. I will not be doing after hours care. Period. Your continual requests are frustrating me and I am tired of the guilt trips. If you need that kind of care, please feel free to look elsewhere. If not, please stop asking. "
I like to get straight to the point, I hold no punches with adults.
You can follow it with "Have a great day! Love your new shoes!" if you'd like
.
Maybe approach it as " Mary, We have had this discussion many times and frankly, I need you to stop. Today. I will not be doing after hours care. Period. Your continual requests are frustrating me and I am tired of the guilt trips. If you need that kind of care, please feel free to look elsewhere. If not, please stop asking. "
I like to get straight to the point, I hold no punches with adults.
You can follow it with "Have a great day! Love your new shoes!" if you'd like
.
MaritimeMummy 05:33 AM 09-28-2012
For the record, no one has ever actually taken me up on my "date night" offer. Thsi DCM did have something set up once, and cancelled 2 days beforehand saying she couldn't afford it. 
lovemykidstoo 05:37 AM 09-28-2012
Originally Posted by MaritimeMummy:
For the record, no one has ever actually taken me up on my "date night" offer. Thsi DCM did have something set up once, and cancelled 2 days beforehand saying she couldn't afford it.
That's funny that the one that's bugging you for extra care is one that said she can't afford the $10 for the date night. UGH! I would tell her then that you do the 1 night a month date night for $10 an hour and anything beyond that will be $20 an hour. That should shut her up!For the record, no one has ever actually taken me up on my "date night" offer. Thsi DCM did have something set up once, and cancelled 2 days beforehand saying she couldn't afford it.
Cat Herder 05:38 AM 09-28-2012
Originally Posted by MaritimeMummy:
For the record, no one has ever actually taken me up on my "date night" offer. This DCM did have something set up once, and cancelled 2 days beforehand saying she couldn't afford it.
IMHO, You may want to skip the date night offers from this point on. This will keep the after hours care issue black and white.For the record, no one has ever actually taken me up on my "date night" offer. This DCM did have something set up once, and cancelled 2 days beforehand saying she couldn't afford it.
Offering it "sometimes" makes it grey.
"If she can do it Wednesday, maybe she will do it for me Friday. I'll ask. It never hurts to ask, right?" 
sharlan 05:43 AM 09-28-2012
I don't really find 3 times in 6 mnths that excessive, but I understand where you are coming from.
I would give her a nice letter saying that you do not provide any care outside of your regular daycare hours and she will receive a formal 2 week notice if she asks again.
I would give her a nice letter saying that you do not provide any care outside of your regular daycare hours and she will receive a formal 2 week notice if she asks again.
MaritimeMummy 05:51 AM 09-28-2012
Well, it's excessive if you've made it clear in the interview, contract, and each time she asked that that kind of care is NOT provided. Once is fine, twice is too much.
Honestly, if she can't afford the once-a-month babysitting, I am struggling understand how she thinks she can afford after-hours care on a regular basis. And i'm not talking about a Tuesday night here, a Saturday there. I'm talking that she wants pretty much every Saturday, and to drop her off here in the mornings from 9am to probably about 8 or 9pm, every night. At $10 an hour after 6pm, that will get pricey. She's already subsidized and subsidy pays for most of her care, but they don't pay for after-hours care, that comes out of pocket.
Honestly, if she can't afford the once-a-month babysitting, I am struggling understand how she thinks she can afford after-hours care on a regular basis. And i'm not talking about a Tuesday night here, a Saturday there. I'm talking that she wants pretty much every Saturday, and to drop her off here in the mornings from 9am to probably about 8 or 9pm, every night. At $10 an hour after 6pm, that will get pricey. She's already subsidized and subsidy pays for most of her care, but they don't pay for after-hours care, that comes out of pocket.
lovemykidstoo 05:55 AM 09-28-2012
I have an idea since you said that noone really uses the $10 after hours care. Why don't you type up a letter for everyone and say that due to spending time with your own family and the things you have going on that you will no longer be providing any type of after hour care including the date night. Then if she is so goofy to ask after that, you can easily say, oh remember the letter I sent out, I dont' do that anymore.
rhymia1 06:04 AM 09-28-2012
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
IMHO, You may want to skip the date night offers from this point on. This will keep the after hours care issue black and white.
Offering it "sometimes" makes it grey. "If she can do it Wednesday, maybe she will do it for me Friday. I'll ask. It never hurts to ask, right?"
IMHO, You may want to skip the date night offers from this point on. This will keep the after hours care issue black and white.
Offering it "sometimes" makes it grey.
"If she can do it Wednesday, maybe she will do it for me Friday. I'll ask. It never hurts to ask, right?" 
I agree. I do not do "date nights" or "PNO's" because I am not a babysitter. I am a business that offers service between the hours of 7:30-4:45 Monday-Friday. If they want care outside those hours, then they need to hire a babysitter. If you mention that you "might" offer it, then you will find people asking for it.
countrymom 06:18 AM 09-28-2012
Originally Posted by rhymia1:
I agree. I do not do "date nights" or "PNO's" because I am not a babysitter. I am a business that offers service between the hours of 7:30-4:45 Monday-Friday. If they want care outside those hours, then they need to hire a babysitter. If you mention that you "might" offer it, then you will find people asking for it.
I was going to say that if you don't do it then why offer it. To me, your contract sounds to wishy washy, everything is done on your terms ex. you say that only if it doesn't interefer with your family time. Well, you can't do it like this, it needs to be yes or no not "when I feel like it" this will ween out alot of craziness. This goes the same as your sick policy, you either close or you don't, parents need it to be simple basic and to the point. The more you skirt around the ideas then the more they will ask for more.I agree. I do not do "date nights" or "PNO's" because I am not a babysitter. I am a business that offers service between the hours of 7:30-4:45 Monday-Friday. If they want care outside those hours, then they need to hire a babysitter. If you mention that you "might" offer it, then you will find people asking for it.
cheerfuldom 06:20 AM 09-28-2012
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
IMHO, You may want to skip the date night offers from this point on. This will keep the after hours care issue black and white.
Offering it "sometimes" makes it grey. "If she can do it Wednesday, maybe she will do it for me Friday. I'll ask. It never hurts to ask, right?"
I think this is what she is doing....you are open to weekend, evening care if it works for you and you said so at the interview. Now she is asking over and over, "does this night work for you, does this night work for you" I would redo the contract to no longer offer any evening/weekend/overnight care ever. Make it black and white. Highlight that portion and make her sign it. Then tell her "As my contract states, I never offer care outside of business hours. Please do not ask me again. The answer will always be no from here on out"IMHO, You may want to skip the date night offers from this point on. This will keep the after hours care issue black and white.
Offering it "sometimes" makes it grey.
"If she can do it Wednesday, maybe she will do it for me Friday. I'll ask. It never hurts to ask, right?"
MaritimeMummy 06:36 AM 09-28-2012
Originally Posted by countrymom:
I was going to say that if you don't do it then why offer it. To me, your contract sounds to wishy washy, everything is done on your terms ex. you say that only if it doesn't interefer with your family time. Well, you can't do it like this, it needs to be yes or no not "when I feel like it" this will ween out alot of craziness. This goes the same as your sick policy, you either close or you don't, parents need it to be simple basic and to the point. The more you skirt around the ideas then the more they will ask for more.
I'd refrain from commenting until you stop putting words into my mouth. Thanks.I was going to say that if you don't do it then why offer it. To me, your contract sounds to wishy washy, everything is done on your terms ex. you say that only if it doesn't interefer with your family time. Well, you can't do it like this, it needs to be yes or no not "when I feel like it" this will ween out alot of craziness. This goes the same as your sick policy, you either close or you don't, parents need it to be simple basic and to the point. The more you skirt around the ideas then the more they will ask for more.
I don't see how it's "wishy washy" when I am very clear that I do not do after hours care unless it's emergency or specifically for a date ONE time a month, no more? This woman is trying to get every weeknight and most weekends out of me for work purposes. You tell me how I sound wishy-washy, please.
And with the sick policy the ONLY reason I stayed open yesterday was because this same mother guilted me into it after I told her I was closing. So, yes, I am SORRY that I am a bit of a pushover but this is why I am coming here, to get help with. k, thanks.
MaritimeMummy 06:43 AM 09-28-2012
I'm sorry for sounding rude but honestly, I am sick to death of coming on here looking for advice from other providers and being constantly told (by the same few users here, mind you) that I am doing things wrong, my contract isn't specific enough, can't blame the parents for the confusion, it's my fault, blah blah blah. No freaking wonder I want out of this job. I have to constantly keep the parents in check and then get no support from fellow providers. Good gravy.
Meyou 06:46 AM 09-28-2012
I would try a letter changing your policy to no extra care outside of business hours. If she still persists then I would term if it was me.
The alternative is to start telling her YES, that you will do the extra care for $150/day flat fee (in cash, in advance) for anything outside of business hours. Regular charges still apply during business hours of course. Sometimes a YES on your terms gets the same result as a no over and over.
The alternative is to start telling her YES, that you will do the extra care for $150/day flat fee (in cash, in advance) for anything outside of business hours. Regular charges still apply during business hours of course.
Sometimes a YES on your terms gets the same result as a no over and over.
cheerfuldom 07:00 AM 09-28-2012
Originally Posted by MaritimeMummy:
I'm sorry for sounding rude but honestly, I am sick to death of coming on here looking for advice from other providers and being constantly told (by the same few users here, mind you) that I am doing things wrong, my contract isn't specific enough, can't blame the parents for the confusion, it's my fault, blah blah blah. No freaking wonder I want out of this job. I have to constantly keep the parents in check and then get no support from fellow providers. Good gravy.
I am sorry you arent feeling supported. I would much rather you stay and learn everything you can here. There are numerous providers here that have been doing childcare for 15 or 20 plus years....they have a lot of experience to share. I think we all have more that we can learn. I'm sorry for sounding rude but honestly, I am sick to death of coming on here looking for advice from other providers and being constantly told (by the same few users here, mind you) that I am doing things wrong, my contract isn't specific enough, can't blame the parents for the confusion, it's my fault, blah blah blah. No freaking wonder I want out of this job. I have to constantly keep the parents in check and then get no support from fellow providers. Good gravy.
I know you arent hearing what you want to hear and I agree that parents really drive us all crazy at times. But sometimes there IS something we can do to change a situation and make things better. Its important to consider that perhaps if a dozen providers are all in agreement about something that perhaps it warrants a second look at your own stance on it. No the majority is not always right but sometimes they are. You have come here asking what you should do but getting upset when people give opinions on what they think you should do.....
If you are wanting to just vent and not get any opinions on a solution, it would be best to say that. "I am just venting...please just sympathize but I am not open to changing anything here, I just need some support"
Cat Herder 07:01 AM 09-28-2012
Originally Posted by MaritimeMummy:
I'm sorry for sounding rude but honestly, I am sick to death of coming on here looking for advice from other providers and being constantly told (by the same few users here, mind you) that I am doing things wrong, my contract isn't specific enough, can't blame the parents for the confusion, it's my fault, blah blah blah. No freaking wonder I want out of this job. I have to constantly keep the parents in check and then get no support from fellow providers. Good gravy.
Do you want honest advice or unconditional support?? It is hard to figure out which you want.I'm sorry for sounding rude but honestly, I am sick to death of coming on here looking for advice from other providers and being constantly told (by the same few users here, mind you) that I am doing things wrong, my contract isn't specific enough, can't blame the parents for the confusion, it's my fault, blah blah blah. No freaking wonder I want out of this job. I have to constantly keep the parents in check and then get no support from fellow providers. Good gravy.
We can't do both if they are not one in the same.
Everyone IS trying to support you with what they learned through trial and error. Nobody is trying to judge and condemn that I can see.
ad·vice (d-vs)
n.
1. Opinion about what could or should be done about a situation or problem; counsel.
2. Information communicated; news. Often used in the plural
MaritimeMummy 07:06 AM 09-28-2012
A question about changing policy, though.
I update my contract every January and the parents all sign off on the new one. I make changes in my policy when I see a need, but I try not to change them around a time when I'm trying to deter a parent from doing something. the last time I did something like that, it turned into an all-out war and it made things extremely uncomfortable to continue caring for hte child. If they hadn't been moving soon and leaving care, I would likely have termed. I don't take terming lightly, I don't do it often. I've only ever done it once.
So, when I get the suggestion to change my policy, I think since she's asking for this service right now, that she'd take a huge offence to my changing my policies at a time when she's asking me about it...kwim? So, to avoid a big conflict, shouldn't I maybe just wait until my new contract rolls over in january? That way it's not so fresh on everyone's mind...? I don't know...what would you do?
I update my contract every January and the parents all sign off on the new one. I make changes in my policy when I see a need, but I try not to change them around a time when I'm trying to deter a parent from doing something. the last time I did something like that, it turned into an all-out war and it made things extremely uncomfortable to continue caring for hte child. If they hadn't been moving soon and leaving care, I would likely have termed. I don't take terming lightly, I don't do it often. I've only ever done it once.
So, when I get the suggestion to change my policy, I think since she's asking for this service right now, that she'd take a huge offence to my changing my policies at a time when she's asking me about it...kwim? So, to avoid a big conflict, shouldn't I maybe just wait until my new contract rolls over in january? That way it's not so fresh on everyone's mind...? I don't know...what would you do?
Cat Herder 07:12 AM 09-28-2012
My opinion is that waiting until January is the way to go. It does not come off passive aggressive and is consistent.
cheerfuldom 07:13 AM 09-28-2012
Originally Posted by MaritimeMummy:
A question about changing policy, though.
I update my contract every January and the parents all sign off on the new one. I make changes in my policy when I see a need, but I try not to change them around a time when I'm trying to deter a parent from doing something. the last time I did something like that, it turned into an all-out war and it made things extremely uncomfortable to continue caring for hte child. If they hadn't been moving soon and leaving care, I would likely have termed. I don't take terming lightly, I don't do it often. I've only ever done it once.
So, when I get the suggestion to change my policy, I think since she's asking for this service right now, that she'd take a huge offence to my changing my policies at a time when she's asking me about it...kwim? So, to avoid a big conflict, shouldn't I maybe just wait until my new contract rolls over in january? That way it's not so fresh on everyone's mind...? I don't know...what would you do?
In this case, I see three optionsA question about changing policy, though.
I update my contract every January and the parents all sign off on the new one. I make changes in my policy when I see a need, but I try not to change them around a time when I'm trying to deter a parent from doing something. the last time I did something like that, it turned into an all-out war and it made things extremely uncomfortable to continue caring for hte child. If they hadn't been moving soon and leaving care, I would likely have termed. I don't take terming lightly, I don't do it often. I've only ever done it once.
So, when I get the suggestion to change my policy, I think since she's asking for this service right now, that she'd take a huge offence to my changing my policies at a time when she's asking me about it...kwim? So, to avoid a big conflict, shouldn't I maybe just wait until my new contract rolls over in january? That way it's not so fresh on everyone's mind...? I don't know...what would you do?
1. Change your contract right now and be ready to deal with any drama from DCM about it if she takes it personally. Just because she doesnt like it, doesnt mean you are doing something wrong
2. Continue as is and just deal with saying no over and over until new contracts come out at which point you will tighten your policy and enforce from there
3. Write her a letter and talk to her further explaining your current policy. To me "emergency" is pretty vague because while you might think this means maybe a death in the family, she might think that a week end out with friends is an emergency. You can explain EXACTLY what you think constitutes an emergency or a date night, what you need as far as notice and payment and then refer to that every time she asks. If you dont consider a girls night out or extra hours at work as an emergency, say so in your letter AND to her.
lovemykidstoo 07:14 AM 09-28-2012
It really doesn't need to be a big fight with her. Just be honest with her. I guess she is confusing me because she doesn't seem to be asking for your 1 time a month offer of date night because she said that she couldn't afford the $10 an hour. So what does she think she will pay for these other times she's asking for care. If she is asking for something other than date night, she's asking for something that is not even in your current contract so there is nothing to change, just reinforce your existing contract. You can ask her and not make it a conflict. You can even put a chuckle in it and say, Susie, you've ask me that a few times and the answer is still no haha!!
MaritimeMummy 07:16 AM 09-28-2012
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
If you are wanting to just vent and not get any opinions on a solution, it would be best to say that. "I am just venting...please just sympathize but I am not open to changing anything here, I just need some support"
I do appreciate solutions to my issues. But telling me that my contract is "wishy washy" isn't a suggestion of change, it's a criticism. And not constructive criticism, either. If you are wanting to just vent and not get any opinions on a solution, it would be best to say that. "I am just venting...please just sympathize but I am not open to changing anything here, I just need some support"
The issues aren't with my contract. My home day care agency has read and re-read my contract and based on what we've talked about, my wants, my business needs, etc, it's fine tuned and perfect. I am always open to changes, but my contract is anything but wishy washy (can you tell I took a bit of offence to that?). I take great pride in how detailed my contract is. My problem really isn't with the contract, my problem is with learning how to deal with parents, keep them from walking over me, because they know I wear my heart on my sleeve. I mentioned in my post yesterday with closing during our sick days that I need to "grow a set". THAT is my problem. :-(
lovemykidstoo 07:16 AM 09-28-2012
Just a thought too is if you are offering everyone a 1 night a month for date night, maybe you could designate the night. For instance, the first Wednesday of every month is date night. Type a letter about it, making it seem like a big deal, and that way there are no surprises. You can plan for it, they can look forward to it and you have all the kids there on one night instead of taking up several nights a month.
HappyHearts 07:17 AM 09-28-2012
OP, I am so sorry you are feeling the way you are. I'm kind of new here, and read more then I post, just haven't found much time to respond much lately. I sympathize with you. I've been running my daycare for almost 20 years, and no matter how long I've been doing this, sometime, a parent catches me off guard, and I don't know how to respond to certain things, just like this parent with you.
My suggestion, you obviously like this family, so if this is the only problem you are having with her, I wouldn't term her. Because you don't want to change your contract right now, and I absolutely understand your reasoning there. I suggest you say something to her like this...
Good luck.
My suggestion, you obviously like this family, so if this is the only problem you are having with her, I wouldn't term her. Because you don't want to change your contract right now, and I absolutely understand your reasoning there. I suggest you say something to her like this...
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
" Mary, We have had this discussion many times and frankly, I need you to stop. Today. I will not be doing after hours care. Period. Your continual requests are frustrating me and I am tired of the guilt trips. If you need that kind of care, please feel free to look elsewhere. If not, please stop asking. "
You can reword this to make it more personal between you and the parent, but I think this would be the best advice. This is what I would do, but I communicate quite well with all my parents, so it may be a little easier for me." Mary, We have had this discussion many times and frankly, I need you to stop. Today. I will not be doing after hours care. Period. Your continual requests are frustrating me and I am tired of the guilt trips. If you need that kind of care, please feel free to look elsewhere. If not, please stop asking. "
Good luck.
lovemykidstoo 07:17 AM 09-28-2012
Originally Posted by MaritimeMummy:
I do appreciate solutions to my issues. But telling me that my contract is "wishy washy" isn't a suggestion of change, it's a criticism. And not constructive criticism, either.
The issues aren't with my contract. My home day care agency has read and re-read my contract and based on what we've talked about, my wants, my business needs, etc, it's fine tuned and perfect. I am always open to changes, but my contract is anything but wishy washy (can you tell I took a bit of offence to that?). I take great pride in how detailed my contract is. My problem really isn't with the contract, my problem is with learning how to deal with parents, keep them from walking over me, because they know I wear my heart on my sleeve. I mentioned in my post yesterday with closing during our sick days that I need to "grow a set". THAT is my problem. :-(
I do appreciate solutions to my issues. But telling me that my contract is "wishy washy" isn't a suggestion of change, it's a criticism. And not constructive criticism, either.
The issues aren't with my contract. My home day care agency has read and re-read my contract and based on what we've talked about, my wants, my business needs, etc, it's fine tuned and perfect. I am always open to changes, but my contract is anything but wishy washy (can you tell I took a bit of offence to that?). I take great pride in how detailed my contract is. My problem really isn't with the contract, my problem is with learning how to deal with parents, keep them from walking over me, because they know I wear my heart on my sleeve. I mentioned in my post yesterday with closing during our sick days that I need to "grow a set". THAT is my problem. :-(
Your contract is fine. She is not asking for something that is in your contract, she's asking for additonal nights.
MaritimeMummy 07:18 AM 09-28-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
It really doesn't need to be a big fight with her. Just be honest with her. I guess she is confusing me because she doesn't seem to be asking for your 1 time a month offer of date night because she said that she couldn't afford the $10 an hour. So what does she think she will pay for these other times she's asking for care. If she is asking for something other than date night, she's asking for something that is not even in your current contract so there is nothing to change, just reinforce your existing contract. You can ask her and not make it a conflict. You can even put a chuckle in it and say, Susie, you've ask me that a few times and the answer is still no haha!!
I think she thinks that because she'll be working during the evenings and weekends that her daughter is here, that she'll have earned the money to pay for it? Rather than having a date night once a month, going out, spending money on me and on the date. More cost effective? i dunno.It really doesn't need to be a big fight with her. Just be honest with her. I guess she is confusing me because she doesn't seem to be asking for your 1 time a month offer of date night because she said that she couldn't afford the $10 an hour. So what does she think she will pay for these other times she's asking for care. If she is asking for something other than date night, she's asking for something that is not even in your current contract so there is nothing to change, just reinforce your existing contract. You can ask her and not make it a conflict. You can even put a chuckle in it and say, Susie, you've ask me that a few times and the answer is still no haha!!
lovemykidstoo 07:22 AM 09-28-2012
Originally Posted by MaritimeMummy:
I think she thinks that because she'll be working during the evenings and weekends that her daughter is here, that she'll have earned the money to pay for it? Rather than having a date night once a month, going out, spending money on me and on the date. More cost effective? i dunno.
That could be her reasoning. So, you will do the 1 night a month if the parent/parents go out, but not if they're working is that how you do it?I think she thinks that because she'll be working during the evenings and weekends that her daughter is here, that she'll have earned the money to pay for it? Rather than having a date night once a month, going out, spending money on me and on the date. More cost effective? i dunno.
MaritimeMummy 07:27 AM 09-28-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
Just a thought too is if you are offering everyone a 1 night a month for date night, maybe you could designate the night. For instance, the first Wednesday of every month is date night. Type a letter about it, making it seem like a big deal, and that way there are no surprises. You can plan for it, they can look forward to it and you have all the kids there on one night instead of taking up several nights a month.
This is nice.Just a thought too is if you are offering everyone a 1 night a month for date night, maybe you could designate the night. For instance, the first Wednesday of every month is date night. Type a letter about it, making it seem like a big deal, and that way there are no surprises. You can plan for it, they can look forward to it and you have all the kids there on one night instead of taking up several nights a month.
Like, I don't want to be like, this hard a** that has absolutely no flexibility. Child care is hard to come by around here. I like to be able to give people this service without it eating into time from my other business, keep my parents happy, earn a bit of extra money, keep our family time OUR family time, etc.
MaritimeMummy 07:37 AM 09-28-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
That could be her reasoning. So, you will do the 1 night a month if the parent/parents go out, but not if they're working is that how you do it?
Frig, I don't care what they use that one night a month for. They can take part in satanic ritualistic sacrifice for all I care. I don't provide more than that one night a month, unless DCM calls me suddenly and says, "look, I am running late because my husband is in the ER". It's not something they should, or even CAN abuse on more than a one-shot basis.That could be her reasoning. So, you will do the 1 night a month if the parent/parents go out, but not if they're working is that how you do it?
Cat Herder 07:45 AM 09-28-2012
I know it is frustrating.
You are trying to do something special, once a month, and keep getting asked for more after they turn down your original offer.
It sucks.
For what it is worth, I think you have a heart of gold and try really hard for those kids.
Adult care is just the hardest part of childcare. 
You are trying to do something special, once a month, and keep getting asked for more after they turn down your original offer.
It sucks. For what it is worth, I think you have a heart of gold and try really hard for those kids.
Adult care is just the hardest part of childcare.
MaritimeMummy 08:00 AM 09-28-2012
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
I know it is frustrating.
You are trying to do something special, once a month, and keep getting asked for more after they turn down your original offer. It sucks.
Yeah, I just feel like I'm spinning my tires. Like, I try to do a little more to increase my income a little bit but I don't need to increase it so much that it sacrifices my family time. I know it is frustrating.
You are trying to do something special, once a month, and keep getting asked for more after they turn down your original offer.
It sucks.BTW, this is the same DCM who told me I could have Mondays off, I took her up on it, then a week later retracted that and told me she still needed Mondays. So we worked it out that I'd be on call for just her and closed for the other families, since i had already told them. Pushover? Yes.
She's also the one who had signed her contract saying that her hours every day would be from 8 to 5. Then changed it with no notice and did it from 7am to 5:45-6pm...which is the entire time I am open. While I don't mind that she's here during that time since I am open, I was not made aware that it was happening, and that irritated me. But I never said anything.
Now suddenly, she's dropping her off at 8am and picking her up at like, 2pm, then says things like, "I probably could have picked up a few clients this afternoon but didn't want you to have to have her all day if I wasn't working", etc etc. I keep telling her I am open from 7am to 6pm, drop her off when she needs, pick her up when she needs, as long as it's in those hours I don't care, but with her rushing to pick her up because she thinks it's inconvenient for me to keep her any longer than 2pm makes me feel extremely guilty. I don't know. It's such a bizarre business relationship.
Then, on top of it, each morning she stands in my doorway for 20-30 minutes, bemoaning her financial status. Lady, my car has been parked in the driveway since December because we can't afford the repairs, you aren't getting any sympathy from me!
Cat Herder 08:10 AM 09-28-2012
Oh, hun... This woman is going to make you nut's. 
Maybe include in her contract that she has used all her wishes and the genie is off duty.
You can even use my DH's favorite saying "You have used your words for the day. From this point forward all communication is to be in smoke signals or skywriting."
Maybe include in her contract that she has used all her wishes and the genie is off duty.
You can even use my DH's favorite saying "You have used your words for the day. From this point forward all communication is to be in smoke signals or skywriting."
lovemykidstoo 08:13 AM 09-28-2012
Originally Posted by MaritimeMummy:
This is nice.
Like, I don't want to be like, this hard a** that has absolutely no flexibility. Child care is hard to come by around here. I like to be able to give people this service without it eating into time from my other business, keep my parents happy, earn a bit of extra money, keep our family time OUR family time, etc.
I think you can accomplish all of those things by doing the one night a month. It actually sounds nice, I may try it LOL!This is nice.
Like, I don't want to be like, this hard a** that has absolutely no flexibility. Child care is hard to come by around here. I like to be able to give people this service without it eating into time from my other business, keep my parents happy, earn a bit of extra money, keep our family time OUR family time, etc.
lovemykidstoo 08:15 AM 09-28-2012
Originally Posted by MaritimeMummy:
BTW, this is the same DCM who told me I could have Mondays off, I took her up on it, then a week later retracted that and told me she still needed Mondays. So we worked it out that I'd be on call for just her and closed for the other families, since i had already told them. Pushover? Yes.
She's also the one who had signed her contract saying that her hours every day would be from 8 to 5. Then changed it with no notice and did it from 7am to 5:45-6pm...which is the entire time I am open. While I don't mind that she's here during that time since I am open, I was not made aware that it was happening, and that irritated me. But I never said anything.
Now suddenly, she's dropping her off at 8am and picking her up at like, 2pm, then says things like, "I probably could have picked up a few clients this afternoon but didn't want you to have to have her all day if I wasn't working", etc etc. I keep telling her I am open from 7am to 6pm, drop her off when she needs, pick her up when she needs, as long as it's in those hours I don't care, but with her rushing to pick her up because she thinks it's inconvenient for me to keep her any longer than 2pm makes me feel extremely guilty. I don't know. It's such a bizarre business relationship.
Then, on top of it, each morning she stands in my doorway for 20-30 minutes, bemoaning her financial status. Lady, my car has been parked in the driveway since December because we can't afford the repairs, you aren't getting any sympathy from me!
Sorry, but she sounds like a pain in the a@@ LOLBTW, this is the same DCM who told me I could have Mondays off, I took her up on it, then a week later retracted that and told me she still needed Mondays. So we worked it out that I'd be on call for just her and closed for the other families, since i had already told them. Pushover? Yes.
She's also the one who had signed her contract saying that her hours every day would be from 8 to 5. Then changed it with no notice and did it from 7am to 5:45-6pm...which is the entire time I am open. While I don't mind that she's here during that time since I am open, I was not made aware that it was happening, and that irritated me. But I never said anything.
Now suddenly, she's dropping her off at 8am and picking her up at like, 2pm, then says things like, "I probably could have picked up a few clients this afternoon but didn't want you to have to have her all day if I wasn't working", etc etc. I keep telling her I am open from 7am to 6pm, drop her off when she needs, pick her up when she needs, as long as it's in those hours I don't care, but with her rushing to pick her up because she thinks it's inconvenient for me to keep her any longer than 2pm makes me feel extremely guilty. I don't know. It's such a bizarre business relationship.
Then, on top of it, each morning she stands in my doorway for 20-30 minutes, bemoaning her financial status. Lady, my car has been parked in the driveway since December because we can't afford the repairs, you aren't getting any sympathy from me!
cheerfuldom 08:45 AM 09-28-2012
She really does sound like a pain....I wonder that you even define them as a nice family to work with when it sounds like there have been multiple issues from the beginning with them.....
so if you feel that your contract is clear and tight, time to start working on enforcing! I have to tell my daycare parents no all the time but it just isnt something I even notice anymore. I let next to nothing slide, dont feel guilty if I have to say no (or rarely feel guilty) and it really does become very easy to do, the more you do it. Sometimes in our effort to be nice, we do accidentally come across as not very firm or resolved so working on approach is important to.
Saying "I cant babysit this Friday, sorry" is okay but even better "I cannot babysit on any weeknight or weekend in order for you to get more hours in at work. The answer is no and will be no every time you ask" See the difference?
so if you feel that your contract is clear and tight, time to start working on enforcing! I have to tell my daycare parents no all the time but it just isnt something I even notice anymore. I let next to nothing slide, dont feel guilty if I have to say no (or rarely feel guilty) and it really does become very easy to do, the more you do it. Sometimes in our effort to be nice, we do accidentally come across as not very firm or resolved so working on approach is important to.
Saying "I cant babysit this Friday, sorry" is okay but even better "I cannot babysit on any weeknight or weekend in order for you to get more hours in at work. The answer is no and will be no every time you ask" See the difference?
MaritimeMummy 09:22 AM 09-28-2012
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
She really does sound like a pain....I wonder that you even define them as a nice family to work with when it sounds like there have been multiple issues from the beginning with them.....
Yeaaaah, see, I'm a sucker for a sweet disposition and despite all her shortcomings, she IS a very nice person. For example, she brought her slushie-maker and juice on one of the hottest days of the year for the kids. She brought hot chocolate for my daughter this morning. every so often she brings me an iced cappucino. She certainly does more for me than a typical parent would do.She really does sound like a pain....I wonder that you even define them as a nice family to work with when it sounds like there have been multiple issues from the beginning with them.....
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
I let next to nothing slide, dont feel guilty if I have to say no (or rarely feel guilty) and it really does become very easy to do, the more you do it. Sometimes in our effort to be nice, we do accidentally come across as not very firm or resolved so working on approach is important to.
This is part of why I don't feel like I am in the right business. I have t be kind and loving to the kids (not an issue) but then I feel like, if I'm not friendly to the parents, that I come off as cold and too stern. I really do hope this is a skill that comes over time because I am tired of not being confident enough to enforce my rules. I let next to nothing slide, dont feel guilty if I have to say no (or rarely feel guilty) and it really does become very easy to do, the more you do it. Sometimes in our effort to be nice, we do accidentally come across as not very firm or resolved so working on approach is important to.
OH! I thought I mentioned but i see I didn't, this is also the same woman who found the way to guilt me into taking her daughter after I told her we were sick and I was closing.She's got such a way of negotiating about her...she used to be a real estate agent. I feel like I can't win with her!
littlemissmuffet 09:25 AM 09-28-2012
Originally Posted by MaritimeMummy:
I do appreciate solutions to my issues. But telling me that my contract is "wishy washy" isn't a suggestion of change, it's a criticism. And not constructive criticism, either.
The issues aren't with my contract. My home day care agency has read and re-read my contract and based on what we've talked about, my wants, my business needs, etc, it's fine tuned and perfect. I am always open to changes, but my contract is anything but wishy washy (can you tell I took a bit of offence to that?). I take great pride in how detailed my contract is. My problem really isn't with the contract, my problem is with learning how to deal with parents, keep them from walking over me, because they know I wear my heart on my sleeve. I mentioned in my post yesterday with closing during our sick days that I need to "grow a set". THAT is my problem. :-(
Sorry, dear - but no matter how detailed and perfect your contract is, it's worthless if you don't stand behind it! You can't expect your daycare parents to follow your rules if you don't! You can't expect your parents to respect you, your time and your business if you do not treat it like a business. Operating a business, dealing with the public, sometimes entails putting your foot down and saying NO, no matter what the situation is. I am not in the business of taking care of adults and their problems - I am in the business of taking care of children. So are you.I do appreciate solutions to my issues. But telling me that my contract is "wishy washy" isn't a suggestion of change, it's a criticism. And not constructive criticism, either.
The issues aren't with my contract. My home day care agency has read and re-read my contract and based on what we've talked about, my wants, my business needs, etc, it's fine tuned and perfect. I am always open to changes, but my contract is anything but wishy washy (can you tell I took a bit of offence to that?). I take great pride in how detailed my contract is. My problem really isn't with the contract, my problem is with learning how to deal with parents, keep them from walking over me, because they know I wear my heart on my sleeve. I mentioned in my post yesterday with closing during our sick days that I need to "grow a set". THAT is my problem. :-(
Blackcat31 11:19 AM 09-28-2012
I have a hard fast contract that I do stand by and being a push-over is not even in my realm of behavior but honestly I don't really think that being strict and stern is the key to being successful or not getting walked on.
The key, IMPO and in my experience is knowing what each parent needs to understand what your rules are and what you will and won't allow.
You HAVE to be able to read each parent and their individual personality style just as we do for the kids we have in care. I have some moms that really require black and white words. "Yes, I will do this for you." or "No I won't" I have a few parents that need long drawn out explanations that again are tailored to their needs so that they understand where I am coming from.
I have a few who are absolutely happy with me saying yes or no. It is the ones who really can't see beyond their own personal family needs that require a bit more finesse. Like the children we have in care, some need a gentle but firm reminder of why we don't do certain things and others need continued re-direction and or a discussion with all the info laid out there before they see why they can or can't do things.
You don't have to be a "dictator" or a "pushover" you just have to be able to deal with different personality styles and adjust your responses and attitude accordingly. You can tell and re-tell a parent something but if it isn't laid out in a way they either relate to or "get" they aren't going to understand.
Doing daycare is kind of like being a math teacher. For some student (parents in our case) it comes naturally and all the formulas and equasions come easy. For others, they require you to show a bit more of your work or require you to write it all out on paper before they see the light....kwim?
I don't think this mom you have is being a bad daycare parent per say, just that I don't think you have found the right way to explain your rules to her just yet.
She keeps pushing you for a little bit more and a little more and she is succeeding by guilting you into doing things you kind of don't want to so she sees that as you being willing NOT as you being reluctant or even put out. She is going to keep asking because so far her tactics or her methods have worked, have they not? So why would the extended care requests be any different?
I do think you will need to simply say, "Hey Sue, I know you have asked a few times but I just really do want to let you know that I won't be doing any extended care hours for you no matter how many times you ask. I value you as a client but I really value my time outside of working hours. I am sure you understand that and will respect my time by not asking me any more. Thanks"
You don't have to be a _itch to make your point or stand your ground. You just have to find the language this particular parent understands.
The key, IMPO and in my experience is knowing what each parent needs to understand what your rules are and what you will and won't allow.
You HAVE to be able to read each parent and their individual personality style just as we do for the kids we have in care. I have some moms that really require black and white words. "Yes, I will do this for you." or "No I won't" I have a few parents that need long drawn out explanations that again are tailored to their needs so that they understand where I am coming from.
I have a few who are absolutely happy with me saying yes or no. It is the ones who really can't see beyond their own personal family needs that require a bit more finesse. Like the children we have in care, some need a gentle but firm reminder of why we don't do certain things and others need continued re-direction and or a discussion with all the info laid out there before they see why they can or can't do things.
You don't have to be a "dictator" or a "pushover" you just have to be able to deal with different personality styles and adjust your responses and attitude accordingly. You can tell and re-tell a parent something but if it isn't laid out in a way they either relate to or "get" they aren't going to understand.
Doing daycare is kind of like being a math teacher. For some student (parents in our case) it comes naturally and all the formulas and equasions come easy. For others, they require you to show a bit more of your work or require you to write it all out on paper before they see the light....kwim?
I don't think this mom you have is being a bad daycare parent per say, just that I don't think you have found the right way to explain your rules to her just yet.
She keeps pushing you for a little bit more and a little more and she is succeeding by guilting you into doing things you kind of don't want to so she sees that as you being willing NOT as you being reluctant or even put out. She is going to keep asking because so far her tactics or her methods have worked, have they not? So why would the extended care requests be any different?
I do think you will need to simply say, "Hey Sue, I know you have asked a few times but I just really do want to let you know that I won't be doing any extended care hours for you no matter how many times you ask. I value you as a client but I really value my time outside of working hours. I am sure you understand that and will respect my time by not asking me any more. Thanks"
You don't have to be a _itch to make your point or stand your ground. You just have to find the language this particular parent understands.
MaritimeMummy 01:03 PM 09-28-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I don't think this mom you have is being a bad daycare parent per say, just that I don't think you have found the right way to explain your rules to her just yet.
She keeps pushing you for a little bit more and a little more and she is succeeding by guilting you into doing things you kind of don't want to so she sees that as you being willing NOT as you being reluctant or even put out. She is going to keep asking because so far her tactics or her methods have worked, have they not? So why would the extended care requests be any different?
Your whole post makes PERFECT sense, but this part really resonated with me. ^^ THIS is why I feel the need to defend her even after all her shortcomings. She really is NOT a bad daycare mom. I honestly don't think she's doing anything with malice or anyway. And the fact is, we were friendly from the start and after having a nightmare of a DCM who was so unfriendly with me and difficult to deal with, I'm thinking because I was very stringent with my rules, I figured I'd try a different approach. But I've found that being friendly doesn't really leave much room for rule-enforcing. So I guess I'm kinda losing control of my business.I don't think this mom you have is being a bad daycare parent per say, just that I don't think you have found the right way to explain your rules to her just yet.
She keeps pushing you for a little bit more and a little more and she is succeeding by guilting you into doing things you kind of don't want to so she sees that as you being willing NOT as you being reluctant or even put out. She is going to keep asking because so far her tactics or her methods have worked, have they not? So why would the extended care requests be any different?
So I guess my option, so it's not so much of a shock and seeming passive-aggressive, is to just roll out a revised policy in the new year and say something to the effect of "A brief date night will be available the 3rd Friday of each month, and will be calculated at $10 per hour. Care will be provided until no later than 9pm. Later than 9pm will be at a rate of $20 per hour. If parents are later than 9pm on more than two occasions, I will cease your date night privileges. Parents will notify me by no later than the 3rd Monday of the month whether they will require this service or not. I reserve the right to swap the night in exchange for another night.
Care will otherwise NOT be provided outside of my usual business hours of 7am to 6pm unless in an emergency situation. An emergency situation qualifies as a death in the family or a grave medical situation."
lovemykidstoo 01:09 PM 09-28-2012
Originally Posted by MaritimeMummy:
Your whole post makes PERFECT sense, but this part really resonated with me. ^^ THIS is why I feel the need to defend her even after all her shortcomings. She really is NOT a bad daycare mom. I honestly don't think she's doing anything with malice or anyway. And the fact is, we were friendly from the start and after having a nightmare of a DCM who was so unfriendly with me and difficult to deal with, I'm thinking because I was very stringent with my rules, I figured I'd try a different approach. But I've found that being friendly doesn't really leave much room for rule-enforcing. So I guess I'm kinda losing control of my business.
So I guess my option, so it's not so much of a shock and seeming passive-aggressive, is to just roll out a revised policy in the new year and say something to the effect of "A brief date night will be available the 3rd Friday of each month, and will be calculated at $10 per hour. Care will be provided until no later than 9pm. Later than 9pm will be at a rate of $20 per hour. If parents are later than 9pm on more than two occasions, I will cease your date night privileges. Parents will notify me by no later than the 3rd Monday of the month whether they will require this service or not. I reserve the right to swap the night in exchange for another night.
Care will otherwise NOT be provided outside of my usual business hours of 7am to 6pm unless in an emergency situation. An emergency situation qualifies as a death in the family or a grave medical situation."
That sounds really good. It sounds organized so that you know for sure each month what night is date night and so do they. No guesswork. Can I ask and just curious why you offer care at night for medical? Is that common where you're from? I am totally just curious because here I haven't seen that offered before. Daycare people that I've talked to just assume that the families would have family/friends that would help in an emergency.Your whole post makes PERFECT sense, but this part really resonated with me. ^^ THIS is why I feel the need to defend her even after all her shortcomings. She really is NOT a bad daycare mom. I honestly don't think she's doing anything with malice or anyway. And the fact is, we were friendly from the start and after having a nightmare of a DCM who was so unfriendly with me and difficult to deal with, I'm thinking because I was very stringent with my rules, I figured I'd try a different approach. But I've found that being friendly doesn't really leave much room for rule-enforcing. So I guess I'm kinda losing control of my business.
So I guess my option, so it's not so much of a shock and seeming passive-aggressive, is to just roll out a revised policy in the new year and say something to the effect of "A brief date night will be available the 3rd Friday of each month, and will be calculated at $10 per hour. Care will be provided until no later than 9pm. Later than 9pm will be at a rate of $20 per hour. If parents are later than 9pm on more than two occasions, I will cease your date night privileges. Parents will notify me by no later than the 3rd Monday of the month whether they will require this service or not. I reserve the right to swap the night in exchange for another night.
Care will otherwise NOT be provided outside of my usual business hours of 7am to 6pm unless in an emergency situation. An emergency situation qualifies as a death in the family or a grave medical situation."
MaritimeMummy 01:19 PM 09-28-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
Can I ask and just curious why you offer care at night for medical? Is that common where you're from?
I don't know. Just courtesy, I guess. If I were in their shoes, I know if I'm at work and I hear that my husband's in the hospital for whatever reason, I wouldn't want to have to worry about picking up my kids from daycare and trying to figure out what to do about care while I rushed to be with him. Those are my thoughts, but do you think it opens things up for misunderstanding?Can I ask and just curious why you offer care at night for medical? Is that common where you're from?
Medical appointments do not qualify, just in a real emergency and if they're already in my care when they call. It's not something that they can say, "look, my husband is going for surgery, can Bobby come over during?" I'll specify that as well.
daycare 01:29 PM 09-28-2012
Originally Posted by MaritimeMummy:
I'm sorry for sounding rude but honestly, I am sick to death of coming on here looking for advice from other providers and being constantly told (by the same few users here, mind you) that I am doing things wrong, my contract isn't specific enough, can't blame the parents for the confusion, it's my fault, blah blah blah. No freaking wonder I want out of this job. I have to constantly keep the parents in check and then get no support from fellow providers. Good gravy.
I feel this way a lot too and sometimes say I hate that website I am never coming back.....only to come back 5 min late because this site and everyone on it rocks......lolI'm sorry for sounding rude but honestly, I am sick to death of coming on here looking for advice from other providers and being constantly told (by the same few users here, mind you) that I am doing things wrong, my contract isn't specific enough, can't blame the parents for the confusion, it's my fault, blah blah blah. No freaking wonder I want out of this job. I have to constantly keep the parents in check and then get no support from fellow providers. Good gravy.
YOu have to realize that people are going to come off aggressive at times and they are going to share with you how they feel about your policies whether you asked them to or not.....
Just take from it what you want and only respond to those that offer you what you needed.....
As for your post....I have been through exactly what you are experiencing.
I do a FREE PNO once a month....well that kicked off into oh you must be around a lot if you can offer that, so one of my past families would ask me all of the time to BABYSIT their kids so they could attend concerts or have adult time. I finally got tired of it and said. While I love you and your children, I too have a life outside of my career. Please do not consider me as an option to be your babysitter. I am a professional preschool teacher and provider and can not meet the needs of your request. You will be notified when there will be a parents night out at the start of each month. Other than the PNO, I will not be available to assist you.
Ok so maybe not exactly those words, but it was something like that.... I see no harm in what you are doing. She needs to know that you will give her the PNO date and that's it. No more. She does not need to come to you.....
Live and Learn 01:37 PM 09-28-2012
Glad to see Cat Herder back. I agree with everything she has said in this thread.
If you absolutely feel that you must do the date night (I wouldn't) I would make the after 9:00 pick up be $1,000 dollars a minute!! i would not ever allow the late parents to use the date night again. Period. No guilt. No second chances!
Also I would have them pay in advance of the date night. If you require being notified by Monday then the fee is due in full on Monday or they lose their spot. Also I would not charge an hourly rate for date night. It would be a flat fee and a set time. Example: 5:30-9 for $35. Per kid. Good luck.
If you absolutely feel that you must do the date night (I wouldn't) I would make the after 9:00 pick up be $1,000 dollars a minute!!
i would not ever allow the late parents to use the date night again. Period. No guilt. No second chances! Also I would have them pay in advance of the date night. If you require being notified by Monday then the fee is due in full on Monday or they lose their spot. Also I would not charge an hourly rate for date night. It would be a flat fee and a set time. Example: 5:30-9 for $35. Per kid. Good luck.
Blackcat31 01:51 PM 09-28-2012
Originally Posted by MaritimeMummy:
I don't know. Just courtesy, I guess. If I were in their shoes, I know if I'm at work and I hear that my husband's in the hospital for whatever reason, I wouldn't want to have to worry about picking up my kids from daycare and trying to figure out what to do about care while I rushed to be with him. Those are my thoughts, but do you think it opens things up for misunderstanding?
Medical appointments do not qualify, just in a real emergency and if they're already in my care when they call. It's not something that they can say, "look, my husband is going for surgery, can Bobby come over during?" I'll specify that as well.
Here is what I am thinking. I don't think you necessarily SHOULD put that info in you handbook or written in your policies. I think if a family you have in care had an emergency, I would think (or hope) that they would feel alright asking you to provide care for their family because it truely was/is an emergency. I don't know. Just courtesy, I guess. If I were in their shoes, I know if I'm at work and I hear that my husband's in the hospital for whatever reason, I wouldn't want to have to worry about picking up my kids from daycare and trying to figure out what to do about care while I rushed to be with him. Those are my thoughts, but do you think it opens things up for misunderstanding?
Medical appointments do not qualify, just in a real emergency and if they're already in my care when they call. It's not something that they can say, "look, my husband is going for surgery, can Bobby come over during?" I'll specify that as well.
As a parent if I honestly felt close enough to my provider and a true emergency happened to me I would ask her to help me out. If I didn't feel that close to her, I would probably find a family member or friend to ask instead.
When my DD was about 3, I had her in daycare. I was due to pick her up at 3:00. Around 2:45 I found out my BIL passed away VERY tragically and unexpectedly. I called asked my provider if she would be willing to keep my DD (for how long exactly I was unsure, but for a few extra hours anyways) and she gladly accommodated me.
I couldn't ask family since it was a family issue and although my provider NEVER offered any kind of care outside of her normal business hours I figured she knew that emergencies can and do happen and completely understood why I would even ask her as my DD was used to being cared for by her so it would cause the least disruption in her life as well. If she had said no, I would have fully understood and respected her for it but I asked because we had a good relationship and viewed each other as partners in caring for my DD.
She didn't have to spell it out. I suppose it really doesn't matter if you do or don't include it in your handbook but I just wanted to share my perspective and that I think parents alreayd kind of know that in a case of a real emergency most of us would gladly help a family out.
lovemykidstoo 02:10 PM 09-28-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Here is what I am thinking. I don't think you necessarily SHOULD put that info in you handbook or written in your policies. I think if a family you have in care had an emergency, I would think (or hope) that they would feel alright asking you to provide care for their family because it truely was/is an emergency.
As a parent if I honestly felt close enough to my provider and a true emergency happened to me I would ask her to help me out. If I didn't feel that close to her, I would probably find a family member or friend to ask instead.
When my DD was about 3, I had her in daycare. I was due to pick her up at 3:00. Around 2:45 I found out my BIL passed away VERY tragically and unexpectedly. I called asked my provider if she would be willing to keep my DD (for how long exactly I was unsure, but for a few extra hours anyways) and she gladly accommodated me.
I couldn't ask family since it was a family issue and although my provider NEVER offered any kind of care outside of her normal business hours I figured she knew that emergencies can and do happen and completely understood why I would even ask her as my DD was used to being cared for by her so it would cause the least disruption in her life as well. If she had said no, I would have fully understood and respected her for it but I asked because we had a good relationship and viewed each other as partners in caring for my DD.
She didn't have to spell it out. I suppose it really doesn't matter if you do or don't include it in your handbook but I just wanted to share my perspective and that I think parents alreayd kind of know that in a case of a real emergency most of us would gladly help a family out.
Here is what I am thinking. I don't think you necessarily SHOULD put that info in you handbook or written in your policies. I think if a family you have in care had an emergency, I would think (or hope) that they would feel alright asking you to provide care for their family because it truely was/is an emergency.
As a parent if I honestly felt close enough to my provider and a true emergency happened to me I would ask her to help me out. If I didn't feel that close to her, I would probably find a family member or friend to ask instead.
When my DD was about 3, I had her in daycare. I was due to pick her up at 3:00. Around 2:45 I found out my BIL passed away VERY tragically and unexpectedly. I called asked my provider if she would be willing to keep my DD (for how long exactly I was unsure, but for a few extra hours anyways) and she gladly accommodated me.
I couldn't ask family since it was a family issue and although my provider NEVER offered any kind of care outside of her normal business hours I figured she knew that emergencies can and do happen and completely understood why I would even ask her as my DD was used to being cared for by her so it would cause the least disruption in her life as well. If she had said no, I would have fully understood and respected her for it but I asked because we had a good relationship and viewed each other as partners in caring for my DD.
She didn't have to spell it out. I suppose it really doesn't matter if you do or don't include it in your handbook but I just wanted to share my perspective and that I think parents alreayd kind of know that in a case of a real emergency most of us would gladly help a family out.
I completely agree with all of this. You're settling one issue and then putting that in there and it might with some people leave you open again for a problem. I wouldn't put it in there.
sharlan 02:32 PM 09-28-2012
Originally Posted by MaritimeMummy:
Yeah, I just feel like I'm spinning my tires. Like, I try to do a little more to increase my income a little bit but I don't need to increase it so much that it sacrifices my family time.
BTW, this is the same DCM who told me I could have Mondays off, I took her up on it, then a week later retracted that and told me she still needed Mondays. So we worked it out that I'd be on call for just her and closed for the other families, since i had already told them. Pushover? Yes.
She's also the one who had signed her contract saying that her hours every day would be from 8 to 5. Then changed it with no notice and did it from 7am to 5:45-6pm...which is the entire time I am open. While I don't mind that she's here during that time since I am open, I was not made aware that it was happening, and that irritated me. But I never said anything.
Now suddenly, she's dropping her off at 8am and picking her up at like, 2pm, then says things like, "I probably could have picked up a few clients this afternoon but didn't want you to have to have her all day if I wasn't working", etc etc. I keep telling her I am open from 7am to 6pm, drop her off when she needs, pick her up when she needs, as long as it's in those hours I don't care, but with her rushing to pick her up because she thinks it's inconvenient for me to keep her any longer than 2pm makes me feel extremely guilty. I don't know. It's such a bizarre business relationship.
Then, on top of it, each morning she stands in my doorway for 20-30 minutes, bemoaning her financial status. Lady, my car has been parked in the driveway since December because we can't afford the repairs, you aren't getting any sympathy from me!
Ok, honestly, after reading your first post this morning, I really couldn't see what your issue was.Yeah, I just feel like I'm spinning my tires. Like, I try to do a little more to increase my income a little bit but I don't need to increase it so much that it sacrifices my family time.
BTW, this is the same DCM who told me I could have Mondays off, I took her up on it, then a week later retracted that and told me she still needed Mondays. So we worked it out that I'd be on call for just her and closed for the other families, since i had already told them. Pushover? Yes.
She's also the one who had signed her contract saying that her hours every day would be from 8 to 5. Then changed it with no notice and did it from 7am to 5:45-6pm...which is the entire time I am open. While I don't mind that she's here during that time since I am open, I was not made aware that it was happening, and that irritated me. But I never said anything.
Now suddenly, she's dropping her off at 8am and picking her up at like, 2pm, then says things like, "I probably could have picked up a few clients this afternoon but didn't want you to have to have her all day if I wasn't working", etc etc. I keep telling her I am open from 7am to 6pm, drop her off when she needs, pick her up when she needs, as long as it's in those hours I don't care, but with her rushing to pick her up because she thinks it's inconvenient for me to keep her any longer than 2pm makes me feel extremely guilty. I don't know. It's such a bizarre business relationship.
Then, on top of it, each morning she stands in my doorway for 20-30 minutes, bemoaning her financial status. Lady, my car has been parked in the driveway since December because we can't afford the repairs, you aren't getting any sympathy from me!
Now after reading this post, it makes a lot more sense as to why you are so frustrated with this parent. The best advice I can offer is to tell her plan and simple up front, I'm sorry, but I just can't do daycare outside of daycare hours. That way, if it is an emergency, you can offer it.
cheerfuldom 06:36 PM 09-28-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Here is what I am thinking. I don't think you necessarily SHOULD put that info in you handbook or written in your policies. I think if a family you have in care had an emergency, I would think (or hope) that they would feel alright asking you to provide care for their family because it truely was/is an emergency.
As a parent if I honestly felt close enough to my provider and a true emergency happened to me I would ask her to help me out. If I didn't feel that close to her, I would probably find a family member or friend to ask instead.
When my DD was about 3, I had her in daycare. I was due to pick her up at 3:00. Around 2:45 I found out my BIL passed away VERY tragically and unexpectedly. I called asked my provider if she would be willing to keep my DD (for how long exactly I was unsure, but for a few extra hours anyways) and she gladly accommodated me.
I couldn't ask family since it was a family issue and although my provider NEVER offered any kind of care outside of her normal business hours I figured she knew that emergencies can and do happen and completely understood why I would even ask her as my DD was used to being cared for by her so it would cause the least disruption in her life as well. If she had said no, I would have fully understood and respected her for it but I asked because we had a good relationship and viewed each other as partners in caring for my DD.
She didn't have to spell it out. I suppose it really doesn't matter if you do or don't include it in your handbook but I just wanted to share my perspective and that I think parents alreayd kind of know that in a case of a real emergency most of us would gladly help a family out.
Agree! I dont offer any outside of daycare care. I have had people ask me for a rare emergency and one time, for care during a wedding. Those I take on a case by case basis. But I never open myself up to doing anything outside of regular business hours and do not address it in my contract. I dont offer date night or anything else. That is what is easiest for me.Here is what I am thinking. I don't think you necessarily SHOULD put that info in you handbook or written in your policies. I think if a family you have in care had an emergency, I would think (or hope) that they would feel alright asking you to provide care for their family because it truely was/is an emergency.
As a parent if I honestly felt close enough to my provider and a true emergency happened to me I would ask her to help me out. If I didn't feel that close to her, I would probably find a family member or friend to ask instead.
When my DD was about 3, I had her in daycare. I was due to pick her up at 3:00. Around 2:45 I found out my BIL passed away VERY tragically and unexpectedly. I called asked my provider if she would be willing to keep my DD (for how long exactly I was unsure, but for a few extra hours anyways) and she gladly accommodated me.
I couldn't ask family since it was a family issue and although my provider NEVER offered any kind of care outside of her normal business hours I figured she knew that emergencies can and do happen and completely understood why I would even ask her as my DD was used to being cared for by her so it would cause the least disruption in her life as well. If she had said no, I would have fully understood and respected her for it but I asked because we had a good relationship and viewed each other as partners in caring for my DD.
She didn't have to spell it out. I suppose it really doesn't matter if you do or don't include it in your handbook but I just wanted to share my perspective and that I think parents alreayd kind of know that in a case of a real emergency most of us would gladly help a family out.
saved4always 07:09 PM 09-28-2012
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
IMHO, You may want to skip the date night offers from this point on. This will keep the after hours care issue black and white.
Offering it "sometimes" makes it grey. "If she can do it Wednesday, maybe she will do it for me Friday. I'll ask. It never hurts to ask, right?"
This is just what I was thinking...do away with the offers to anyone for date night care once a month. This mom seems to think it means that you will do after hours care of any kind. She must think she can wear you down by asking over and over.IMHO, You may want to skip the date night offers from this point on. This will keep the after hours care issue black and white.
Offering it "sometimes" makes it grey.
"If she can do it Wednesday, maybe she will do it for me Friday. I'll ask. It never hurts to ask, right?"
Chipmunk 07:33 PM 09-28-2012
It sounds like she doesn't understand what she's paying for. Why is she picking up at 2 so as not to inconvenience you, then asking for evening hours to work? Why isn't the child there until 5 or whatever time you close?
It sounds like she needs to see a copy of the contract, with the time she's paying for all spelled out.
It sounds like she needs to see a copy of the contract, with the time she's paying for all spelled out.
dave4him 02:29 AM 09-29-2012
Tell her you cannot offer care outside those hours.
Unregistered 06:40 PM 09-29-2012
Here is my honest opinion....
I can tell that Childcare is not something that you want to be doing but rather something you need to do in order to be home for your little ones. I totally get that because I know exactly how you feel. It makes it hard because you tend to sometimes resent the parents because quite frankly you wish those kids didn't really need to be there everyday.
You offer some extras and are really nice at first because you are really excited about the idea of being able to stay at home with your kiddies and you really want to get some daycare kids signed on. Then one day the reality of childcare hits you like a ton of bricks...the late payements, the no shows, the sick kids, the daycare parents taking advantage of you every single way they can...AND you are probably new to childcare so likely you are too nice and tend to give in but then feel really angry at yourself for giving in and feel like you are about to completely explode.
I completely know how this feels...my advice is to hang in there honey. It will get better, you will likely have to make some changes along the way and every time you stand up for yourself it will get easier and easier. (Mind you I am still WAY too nice and often still get walked all over but I've accepted that it is who I am and I can't get mad at others because I am a wimp.) Remember that this is YOUR business and you are the boss. You make the rules, not them.
I think you should revamp your contract. If you have a young family, unless you need the extra cash, I would scrap the date night as well as the emergency care policy. People always have a friend, relative or someone who can pick up within your regular daycare hours.
You have enough on your plate just taking care of these kids every day, you don't need the added stress and confusion...and if they think they can get away with it, they will take advantage of it.
Just send out a note saying - As of ........... date....... I will no longer be offering emergency or after hours care due to family obligations. My hours are from......., and all children must be picked up before closing. Thanks.
***Hugs**** to you.
I can tell that Childcare is not something that you want to be doing but rather something you need to do in order to be home for your little ones. I totally get that because I know exactly how you feel. It makes it hard because you tend to sometimes resent the parents because quite frankly you wish those kids didn't really need to be there everyday.
You offer some extras and are really nice at first because you are really excited about the idea of being able to stay at home with your kiddies and you really want to get some daycare kids signed on. Then one day the reality of childcare hits you like a ton of bricks...the late payements, the no shows, the sick kids, the daycare parents taking advantage of you every single way they can...AND you are probably new to childcare so likely you are too nice and tend to give in but then feel really angry at yourself for giving in and feel like you are about to completely explode.
I completely know how this feels...my advice is to hang in there honey. It will get better, you will likely have to make some changes along the way and every time you stand up for yourself it will get easier and easier. (Mind you I am still WAY too nice and often still get walked all over but I've accepted that it is who I am and I can't get mad at others because I am a wimp.) Remember that this is YOUR business and you are the boss. You make the rules, not them.
I think you should revamp your contract. If you have a young family, unless you need the extra cash, I would scrap the date night as well as the emergency care policy. People always have a friend, relative or someone who can pick up within your regular daycare hours.
You have enough on your plate just taking care of these kids every day, you don't need the added stress and confusion...and if they think they can get away with it, they will take advantage of it.
Just send out a note saying - As of ........... date....... I will no longer be offering emergency or after hours care due to family obligations. My hours are from......., and all children must be picked up before closing. Thanks.
***Hugs**** to you.
Unregistered 03:51 PM 09-30-2012
IK this is an older post but just some words of thought for anyone else who has this problem: A common problem in this field is that many parents forget that this is considered an underpaid job for all the work you do with little to no benifits if you are self-employed. Many parents see it as "professional babysitting" (a real "babysitter" would be getting paid $10/hr per kid, under the table, and free tv/food, etc.) or "just playing with kids" and forget that you a business woman/child care provider (NOT a sitter)/teacher and family woman, who has rules that you made that would work best for not only the business and children but you as the provider as well to make sure you are at the top of your game at all times.
Tell her something like this:
"I respect the fact that you do what you have to do for your family and I understand that you need after hours care, but it doesn't seem like you respect the fact that my husband and I work all day and that after hours is our time with our family. I have tried to tell you politely many times that I, too, am a businesswoman, a wife (if applicable in her situation), and a mother; and I also need time with my family. Also I set these hours so that I have enough time to do my house work, shopping, and everything else to prepare for the next day so that I can focus on all the children in my care. Caregiver burn-out is a very common problem in this field which causes many providers to give up their businesses; because, like most mothers, we want to give so much that sometimes we put the needs of other's before our own and if I spread myself too thin I am more likely to burn out sooner and then I wouldn't be in any position to properly care for anyone's children; which would upset me because I love what I do; and I would be glad to refer some actual babysitters for after hour care. But If you cant respect that and my hours don't work for you then maybe you would be happier at another FCC/DC/School etc..."
I bet that will make her think twice, if she does it again just tell her: "Maybe you would happier in a 24/7 daycare center". They are more common and popular these days, but I think that unless they do shifts or live alone and have nothing better to do they may be more likely to change hours soon or just go out of business all together due to burn out)
Tell her something like this:
"I respect the fact that you do what you have to do for your family and I understand that you need after hours care, but it doesn't seem like you respect the fact that my husband and I work all day and that after hours is our time with our family. I have tried to tell you politely many times that I, too, am a businesswoman, a wife (if applicable in her situation), and a mother; and I also need time with my family. Also I set these hours so that I have enough time to do my house work, shopping, and everything else to prepare for the next day so that I can focus on all the children in my care. Caregiver burn-out is a very common problem in this field which causes many providers to give up their businesses; because, like most mothers, we want to give so much that sometimes we put the needs of other's before our own and if I spread myself too thin I am more likely to burn out sooner and then I wouldn't be in any position to properly care for anyone's children; which would upset me because I love what I do; and I would be glad to refer some actual babysitters for after hour care. But If you cant respect that and my hours don't work for you then maybe you would be happier at another FCC/DC/School etc..."
I bet that will make her think twice, if she does it again just tell her: "Maybe you would happier in a 24/7 daycare center". They are more common and popular these days, but I think that unless they do shifts or live alone and have nothing better to do they may be more likely to change hours soon or just go out of business all together due to burn out)