Daycare.com Forum
Parents and Guardians Forum>Viable Causes for Termination?
AutismMamma 12:49 PM 07-27-2012
Providers, what are some of your reasons for terminating a child?
For multiple reasons, I have chosen to remain home, rather than return to the corporate workforce. I have nannied for multiple families, and now have a special-needs child of my own. Living in the expensive area that we do, I have considered doing childcare to assist my husband in paying the bills.
I wish to be home so that I can be closer to my son, should anything arise. He's had bouts with allergies, surgery last year, and he gets randomly sick from things that other kids bring into the classroom. Last school year it was this insane all over body rash that the teacher swore HE brought in. But we are meticulous in the care of our son, he bathes every night, we don't let him get into poison ivy and the like...and we watch his allergies. Once I kept him home for the summer, all that ceased.
In the past, employers have not been all that understanding about my son's health issues. I'm tired of fighting with them, my son comes first. My husband has a schedule where he can be home, if our son needs to be, thus helping me if I have children in my care.
Right now I have two, and I have asked their mother to find other care, because it is just not working. The mom is a new friend of mine, and while she says that our friendship has not been changed by my decision, I wonder.
She is a single mother who works long hours. Her sons are 3.5 and 5 years old. My son is the same age as the youngest one. However, due to his autism, he does not speak and is not potty trained.
My two charges have not listened to me one day in the entire time they have been here. The younger one purposefully (and I do mean purposefully, as I will ask him to go potty and he will refuse, only to do this minutes later) urinates on himself. He's done that every day this past week. I ask him why he will not go when I direct him to, and why he wets himself here, but not at home. He says he's angry, and his mom's at work. I'm kind of pulling my hair out here.
I had such high hopes for this situation. But it seems that the boys cannot tolerate being away from their mom for 12+ hours. I also feel that they need to be in situations where they play with others and not just each other, because they ostracize my son, and will only play with each other. I'm sorry. This is his house. You cannot yell at him for playing with his toys, or push him away for wanting to play with you. I see this as a social skills issue, they have moved around a lot, and mainly play with each other. The older one starts kindergarten this year, so perhaps that will help. Still, it hurts my feelings to see my child treated in such a way. Sometimes it borders on bullying, and when I put a stop to it, the two children look at me like I'm crazy.
My friend told me that her younger child's behavior issues are "just the way he is" (he does not smile, frowns all the time, is disrespectful and disobedient). She claimed that he was "mean" to her cousin who watched the kids before she moved up here, and that his last teacher "didn't like him". The whole "born this way" argument kind of disturbs me. I have never met a three-year-old that is literally as hateful as this one is. And I'm serious! Kids throw tantrums, they pout, they act out, it's par for the course! My son acts like the Tazmanian Devil sometimes. So what? But this young man only smiles for his mother. Seriously. And he plays her like a fiddle. If you put him in the corner, he says, "fine, I want to go". If she does it, he goes and cries in her lap after standing there for 30 seconds. I have witnessed this.
I have certain things that I have been asked to do with the children each day (work on their numbers, letters, etc.), and I cannot get the younger child to cooperate with me at all. If I ask him to count from one to ten, he will say "one to ten", until I ask multiple times, then he will finally count. He LOVES being in the corner. He once said to me, "that's why my mom's not going to do anything" (about his behavior...and he has been right so far).
There is nothing I can do to encourage these children to behave. So I have asked my friend to find other options for them, as I feel that perhaps I'm just not cut out. I don't know what is different from all of the other families that I've worked with, but something is off here. Oh, they also tell me that there is no consequence for their behavior at home, despite what she has repeatedly told me in the evening when she comes to get them. Not only does mom not really listen to what I tell her in the afternoons about her sons' behavior (if they're not trying to get to her first to shout over me about all the "wonderful" things they did today), but when she goes home, she doesn't really talk to them about it (they tell me as much, and I live next door), and they just run wild until late at night...then I have to dress and bathe them on top of everything else when they get here each day. Her idea of discipline is reading them an adult book on the law of attraction. What?
I began to think that this would not be wise for any ideas of expansion. I am not supposed to be bathing kids in a daycare. And if you cannot play nicely with anyone but your brother (and rarely then, at that), and the reason you give is because you're always angry....is this not an issue?
I feel like I have learned from this experience, I refuse to take only negativity away from it. But I cannot continue to care for them. And I will limit my son's interaction with them until at least the older one has more social skills ingrained in him through school. When I was five, the concept of sharing was a given. But then again, I had a family full of cousins, and our toy was "outside".
I am going to ask, because I believe in learning and growing as a person, and I do not want to be unreasonable towards my friend. Am I doing this wrong?
For multiple reasons, I have chosen to remain home, rather than return to the corporate workforce. I have nannied for multiple families, and now have a special-needs child of my own. Living in the expensive area that we do, I have considered doing childcare to assist my husband in paying the bills.
I wish to be home so that I can be closer to my son, should anything arise. He's had bouts with allergies, surgery last year, and he gets randomly sick from things that other kids bring into the classroom. Last school year it was this insane all over body rash that the teacher swore HE brought in. But we are meticulous in the care of our son, he bathes every night, we don't let him get into poison ivy and the like...and we watch his allergies. Once I kept him home for the summer, all that ceased.
In the past, employers have not been all that understanding about my son's health issues. I'm tired of fighting with them, my son comes first. My husband has a schedule where he can be home, if our son needs to be, thus helping me if I have children in my care.
Right now I have two, and I have asked their mother to find other care, because it is just not working. The mom is a new friend of mine, and while she says that our friendship has not been changed by my decision, I wonder.
She is a single mother who works long hours. Her sons are 3.5 and 5 years old. My son is the same age as the youngest one. However, due to his autism, he does not speak and is not potty trained.
My two charges have not listened to me one day in the entire time they have been here. The younger one purposefully (and I do mean purposefully, as I will ask him to go potty and he will refuse, only to do this minutes later) urinates on himself. He's done that every day this past week. I ask him why he will not go when I direct him to, and why he wets himself here, but not at home. He says he's angry, and his mom's at work. I'm kind of pulling my hair out here.
I had such high hopes for this situation. But it seems that the boys cannot tolerate being away from their mom for 12+ hours. I also feel that they need to be in situations where they play with others and not just each other, because they ostracize my son, and will only play with each other. I'm sorry. This is his house. You cannot yell at him for playing with his toys, or push him away for wanting to play with you. I see this as a social skills issue, they have moved around a lot, and mainly play with each other. The older one starts kindergarten this year, so perhaps that will help. Still, it hurts my feelings to see my child treated in such a way. Sometimes it borders on bullying, and when I put a stop to it, the two children look at me like I'm crazy.
My friend told me that her younger child's behavior issues are "just the way he is" (he does not smile, frowns all the time, is disrespectful and disobedient). She claimed that he was "mean" to her cousin who watched the kids before she moved up here, and that his last teacher "didn't like him". The whole "born this way" argument kind of disturbs me. I have never met a three-year-old that is literally as hateful as this one is. And I'm serious! Kids throw tantrums, they pout, they act out, it's par for the course! My son acts like the Tazmanian Devil sometimes. So what? But this young man only smiles for his mother. Seriously. And he plays her like a fiddle. If you put him in the corner, he says, "fine, I want to go". If she does it, he goes and cries in her lap after standing there for 30 seconds. I have witnessed this.
I have certain things that I have been asked to do with the children each day (work on their numbers, letters, etc.), and I cannot get the younger child to cooperate with me at all. If I ask him to count from one to ten, he will say "one to ten", until I ask multiple times, then he will finally count. He LOVES being in the corner. He once said to me, "that's why my mom's not going to do anything" (about his behavior...and he has been right so far).
There is nothing I can do to encourage these children to behave. So I have asked my friend to find other options for them, as I feel that perhaps I'm just not cut out. I don't know what is different from all of the other families that I've worked with, but something is off here. Oh, they also tell me that there is no consequence for their behavior at home, despite what she has repeatedly told me in the evening when she comes to get them. Not only does mom not really listen to what I tell her in the afternoons about her sons' behavior (if they're not trying to get to her first to shout over me about all the "wonderful" things they did today), but when she goes home, she doesn't really talk to them about it (they tell me as much, and I live next door), and they just run wild until late at night...then I have to dress and bathe them on top of everything else when they get here each day. Her idea of discipline is reading them an adult book on the law of attraction. What?
I began to think that this would not be wise for any ideas of expansion. I am not supposed to be bathing kids in a daycare. And if you cannot play nicely with anyone but your brother (and rarely then, at that), and the reason you give is because you're always angry....is this not an issue?
I feel like I have learned from this experience, I refuse to take only negativity away from it. But I cannot continue to care for them. And I will limit my son's interaction with them until at least the older one has more social skills ingrained in him through school. When I was five, the concept of sharing was a given. But then again, I had a family full of cousins, and our toy was "outside".
I am going to ask, because I believe in learning and growing as a person, and I do not want to be unreasonable towards my friend. Am I doing this wrong?
Blackcat31 12:52 PM 07-27-2012
Welcome to the forum 
Your status has been upgraded so you can post freely now
Your status has been upgraded so you can post freely now
AutismMamma 01:00 PM 07-27-2012
Thank you, and hello!
Blackcat31 01:57 PM 07-27-2012
You are so NOT wrong for terming this family...friend or not. You should actually feel really good that you stuck it out as long as you have....I wouldn't have made it more than a few days.
I find that the easiest way to term families that just don't click with me or my set-up/program or rules is to be honest and say that I can't provide them with the type of care they need. .....As in I am not willing to let them run the show or I am not able to let them be mean and disrespectful to my child in his own home. I don't say the last part outloud though....
When you are runnin gyour own business, you can basically term for any reason or situation that simply isn't working out for you.
In this case, I can see why you don't want to keep this up and this mom is going to find that she will need to change her parenting style or she will be termed often.
Stick around here long enough and you will see that she is far from the only parent who is like that and there are still plenty of great ones out there!
I would term for sure and would start advertising for a new family that better suits you and how you do things.
I find that the easiest way to term families that just don't click with me or my set-up/program or rules is to be honest and say that I can't provide them with the type of care they need. .....As in I am not willing to let them run the show or I am not able to let them be mean and disrespectful to my child in his own home. I don't say the last part outloud though....
When you are runnin gyour own business, you can basically term for any reason or situation that simply isn't working out for you.
In this case, I can see why you don't want to keep this up and this mom is going to find that she will need to change her parenting style or she will be termed often.
Stick around here long enough and you will see that she is far from the only parent who is like that and there are still plenty of great ones out there!
I would term for sure and would start advertising for a new family that better suits you and how you do things.
cheerfuldom 11:39 AM 07-28-2012
Term and move on to another. There is little to nothing you can do when mom is not on board with you and the kids have years of bad habits to overcome. Its a very common scenario so dont take it personally.
Heidi 09:28 AM 07-29-2012
I also think that this doesn't sound like a good fit for any of you.
If you are just really starting out in daycare, and you want to start small, would you consider providing strictly infant care to begin with? That way, you could have 1 or 2 littles, and charge a premium rate. With some planning and building a good routine, you could then make sure you get one-on-one time with your son each day. This also gives you the opportunity to "train" the kiddos to your ways vs. having to fit your program into THEIR ways. As they get older, you can then add other children, who will more naturally fit into the existing group.
I would absolutely try to avoid any sibling situations, in any case, unless one is close to your sons age (or slightly younger) and one is a baby. Your son does not need other kids ganging up on him in his own home. Whenever you have sibs, they bring their own family dynamics into your home anyway; a challenge for even a seasoned provider. Even once you have an established group, keep in mind that sib groups usually come with extra "baggage".
I don't know what your education or training is, but if you don't have either in early childhood, I would encourage you to get some. This will build your skills in managing a group of children (very different than parenting a child!), help you identifiy your own style of care/teaching, and give you confidence in working with families.
Hang around here more often and follow some of the threads, and you'll learn a lot!
If you are just really starting out in daycare, and you want to start small, would you consider providing strictly infant care to begin with? That way, you could have 1 or 2 littles, and charge a premium rate. With some planning and building a good routine, you could then make sure you get one-on-one time with your son each day. This also gives you the opportunity to "train" the kiddos to your ways vs. having to fit your program into THEIR ways. As they get older, you can then add other children, who will more naturally fit into the existing group.
I would absolutely try to avoid any sibling situations, in any case, unless one is close to your sons age (or slightly younger) and one is a baby. Your son does not need other kids ganging up on him in his own home. Whenever you have sibs, they bring their own family dynamics into your home anyway; a challenge for even a seasoned provider. Even once you have an established group, keep in mind that sib groups usually come with extra "baggage".
I don't know what your education or training is, but if you don't have either in early childhood, I would encourage you to get some. This will build your skills in managing a group of children (very different than parenting a child!), help you identifiy your own style of care/teaching, and give you confidence in working with families.
Hang around here more often and follow some of the threads, and you'll learn a lot!
AutismMamma 08:33 AM 08-23-2012
Hello All,
Thank you for your insight. Well, the proverbial poo hit the wall. I terminated care last Monday, because things were getting so bad that my health was being compromised. It was just too stressful. This woman wanted me to discipline her kids in her stead. Well that was one story. Once I cut the cord, her stories started changing left and right.
She never could make it to my door before 6:30. I have a feeling she was getting home and sitting at home before coming to get her sons. Lady, if you're stressed you have to find a way to keep your boys quiet so you can have quiet time. I don't get quiet time because of my individual situation, but that doesn't mean you take further advantage of me.
One day she texts me saying she came home early because she was sick. She said that she would get the boys when she woke up. So I'm thinking around two at the latest. Nope. She came to get them at 4:30. Thanks for giving me an hour of free time. I know she was up two hours earlier than that, because she was on the phone with her boyfriend. I could hear her through the wall.
It gets better! The weekend before, she was supposed to go purchase a car. She kept saying all her problems would be solved by having a car. Well, she decides to go to visit family and forgets about the car purchase. Only to tell me that she was going to do it on a weekday.
She left her kids with me until 10:45. It probably would have been later had I not been texting and calling her every half hour, asking where she was. She could have taken her kids with her, but she doesn't believe in controlling them in public. She's one of those parents who thinks her kids should just scream in the store, and that's it. My son never does that.
That was the beginning of the end. But after another week of physical altercation between the brothers, late evenings (I was literally just eating, bathing my son and going to bed after she left, that's all we had time for), and the decline in my health, I let her know flat out that she was terminated as of that day.
Then her story changed. While I'm in the ER trying to stop the chest pains, she tries to involve my husband. She says that she "knows her kids are bad" (ok...how about just spend time with them when you get home instead of boyfriend?), but she doesn't understand why I terminated. I had given her two week notice, and that time had passed. She had not tried to look for care. A few days prior to getting sick, I told her again she needed to find care. She told me her mom was coming...and then mom was not coming.
So then she leaves me a letter saying I needed to do internal work to see how I could have better handled the situation (lady, you avoided every attempt at a sit down discussion with me. Every. Single. One), that she beat her kids every day after leaving my house (strange, I didn't tell you every day of that six-week period that they were misbehaving). She claimed that she only had to do this because of me. I called her out on that. I told her that I don't tell people how to discipline their kids, and if she felt she had to beat them daily, that was an issue on her part. Plus, she didn't. I would have heard them through the wall separating our apartments.
Well, it seems the kids are with relatives right now. But she sure did play the part of my victim. I tried to get through to her youngest, he is not the first child I've cared for who is struggling with or angry about the parents' divorce. He is not the first child I've dealt with who just doesn't want to listen. But he is the first child showing clear signs of emotional trauma.
I've decided to wait on the childcare for now, partially because my landlord doesn't want individual businesses being operated out or apartments (though many people do it under the table), and partially because when I nannied, the parents were more proactive. I don't understand this philosophy of not creating boundaries for your kids. I just don't. Her kids just want more time with her, and she would accomplish a great deal if she turned off the movies at night and just played with them. But it's not my problem anymore.
My son starts school in about 12 days. I'm back in school. For now I'm going to concentrate on my family. I do not have time for parents who think that daycare and school should do the parenting for them, and have no problem saying so. I don't mind complimenting what you do, but you have to have something of your own going on at home. But perhaps I feel this way because I'm in a situation where school could not possibly meet all the needs and demands that my child has. He was short-sheeted by our county with regards to early intervention services, so he's heading into school having missed some valuable therapies. I KNOW we have to be proactive for him here at home.
None of the families I worked for ever had this problem. None of them. I'm surprised, and yet I'm not.
Thank you for your insight. Well, the proverbial poo hit the wall. I terminated care last Monday, because things were getting so bad that my health was being compromised. It was just too stressful. This woman wanted me to discipline her kids in her stead. Well that was one story. Once I cut the cord, her stories started changing left and right.
She never could make it to my door before 6:30. I have a feeling she was getting home and sitting at home before coming to get her sons. Lady, if you're stressed you have to find a way to keep your boys quiet so you can have quiet time. I don't get quiet time because of my individual situation, but that doesn't mean you take further advantage of me.
One day she texts me saying she came home early because she was sick. She said that she would get the boys when she woke up. So I'm thinking around two at the latest. Nope. She came to get them at 4:30. Thanks for giving me an hour of free time. I know she was up two hours earlier than that, because she was on the phone with her boyfriend. I could hear her through the wall.
It gets better! The weekend before, she was supposed to go purchase a car. She kept saying all her problems would be solved by having a car. Well, she decides to go to visit family and forgets about the car purchase. Only to tell me that she was going to do it on a weekday.
She left her kids with me until 10:45. It probably would have been later had I not been texting and calling her every half hour, asking where she was. She could have taken her kids with her, but she doesn't believe in controlling them in public. She's one of those parents who thinks her kids should just scream in the store, and that's it. My son never does that.
That was the beginning of the end. But after another week of physical altercation between the brothers, late evenings (I was literally just eating, bathing my son and going to bed after she left, that's all we had time for), and the decline in my health, I let her know flat out that she was terminated as of that day.
Then her story changed. While I'm in the ER trying to stop the chest pains, she tries to involve my husband. She says that she "knows her kids are bad" (ok...how about just spend time with them when you get home instead of boyfriend?), but she doesn't understand why I terminated. I had given her two week notice, and that time had passed. She had not tried to look for care. A few days prior to getting sick, I told her again she needed to find care. She told me her mom was coming...and then mom was not coming.
So then she leaves me a letter saying I needed to do internal work to see how I could have better handled the situation (lady, you avoided every attempt at a sit down discussion with me. Every. Single. One), that she beat her kids every day after leaving my house (strange, I didn't tell you every day of that six-week period that they were misbehaving). She claimed that she only had to do this because of me. I called her out on that. I told her that I don't tell people how to discipline their kids, and if she felt she had to beat them daily, that was an issue on her part. Plus, she didn't. I would have heard them through the wall separating our apartments.
Well, it seems the kids are with relatives right now. But she sure did play the part of my victim. I tried to get through to her youngest, he is not the first child I've cared for who is struggling with or angry about the parents' divorce. He is not the first child I've dealt with who just doesn't want to listen. But he is the first child showing clear signs of emotional trauma.
I've decided to wait on the childcare for now, partially because my landlord doesn't want individual businesses being operated out or apartments (though many people do it under the table), and partially because when I nannied, the parents were more proactive. I don't understand this philosophy of not creating boundaries for your kids. I just don't. Her kids just want more time with her, and she would accomplish a great deal if she turned off the movies at night and just played with them. But it's not my problem anymore.
My son starts school in about 12 days. I'm back in school. For now I'm going to concentrate on my family. I do not have time for parents who think that daycare and school should do the parenting for them, and have no problem saying so. I don't mind complimenting what you do, but you have to have something of your own going on at home. But perhaps I feel this way because I'm in a situation where school could not possibly meet all the needs and demands that my child has. He was short-sheeted by our county with regards to early intervention services, so he's heading into school having missed some valuable therapies. I KNOW we have to be proactive for him here at home.
None of the families I worked for ever had this problem. None of them. I'm surprised, and yet I'm not.
Blackcat31 08:45 AM 08-23-2012
Sorry it got so nasty before getting better. Either way I am glad you are no longer having to deal with her on a business side even though you will obviously still have to see her as a neighbor.
Sadly this mom will find out the hard way that people do NOT want to raise other people kids and it is up to her to take control and do what needs to be done or it isn't going to get any better for her.
Sorry to hear about your health issues too and surely hope they improve since you are no longer having to deal with this situation.
Sadly this mom will find out the hard way that people do NOT want to raise other people kids and it is up to her to take control and do what needs to be done or it isn't going to get any better for her.
Sorry to hear about your health issues too and surely hope they improve since you are no longer having to deal with this situation.
AutismMamma 08:53 AM 08-23-2012
It took about a week to "detox". My blood pressure cannot get to high, because the vessels on the left side of my brain are too small. The pain is horrible. I can't just take something like motrin, I have to go to the ER and get something like dilaudid. It sucks.
So far I have not seen my former friend. I fully understand people wanting to defend their kids and family members, but I have never been one to defend wrongdoing just because the person committing the wrong was a friend or family member of mine. To me right and wrong are just that. I hope that she will be focusing more on her kids in future. Right before the termination she told me that she and her boyfriend had split.
My son is a lot happier with just us in the house. He'll be even happier once school starts. He LOVES school. He does get a bit of cabin fever, but we've been working on getting him back on a schedule, so he can get his wiggles out, have fun and get a good night's sleep. He stimmed really badly when the boys had to stay late. It just wasn't part of his routine.
I'm very grateful for the peaceful house. :-)
So far I have not seen my former friend. I fully understand people wanting to defend their kids and family members, but I have never been one to defend wrongdoing just because the person committing the wrong was a friend or family member of mine. To me right and wrong are just that. I hope that she will be focusing more on her kids in future. Right before the termination she told me that she and her boyfriend had split.
My son is a lot happier with just us in the house. He'll be even happier once school starts. He LOVES school. He does get a bit of cabin fever, but we've been working on getting him back on a schedule, so he can get his wiggles out, have fun and get a good night's sleep. He stimmed really badly when the boys had to stay late. It just wasn't part of his routine.
I'm very grateful for the peaceful house. :-)
Countrygal 11:45 AM 08-23-2012
I just want you to know that you are not alone in your feelings. I have had two families now who just refused to be pro-active with their children, blaming their children's problems on me and even on my 6yo son. When their problems really arose from not having any form of structure or discipline at home, IMO.
I find in the area I live it is more common than in some parts of the country. Sorry you had to go through this. It is not fun. Enjoy your time with your son!
I find in the area I live it is more common than in some parts of the country. Sorry you had to go through this. It is not fun. Enjoy your time with your son!