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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Holding Daycare Spot Before New Baby Can Even Be Cared For?
Guest Mamma 10:14 AM 03-03-2017
My first daughter is currently at an in-home daycare and new baby girl will be going there starting mid-June (or so we hope). The lady that runs the daycare has a maximum capacity of 6 kids at one time and no more than two of them can be under the age of 2 at one time. I am not sure if this is standard practice for all in-home daycares (since she is the sole provider for her business), but this is how she has always run her daycare. She currently has 5 kids total of which two of the kids are under the age of 2 now, but one of them will turn 2 at the beginning of June, so new baby couldn't be accepted by her until that time anyways.

She has just requested that we start paying her full-pay "to save that infant spot" until my new baby can start mid-June! That means that she is asking us for 15 weeks of full-pay for an infant that she can't even watch until the current baby turns 2 and by her rule anyways!!
I would understand if she wanted us to pay to "hold the spot" immediately after one of the babies turns 2 (early June), but to ask us to pay for a spot; 1) before my baby is even born and 2) before she can "legally/ethically" begin to watch my baby (under her set rules)?

Is this normal and has anyone else been asked to do this? Just looking for advice and to see if anyone else has been in a similar situation.
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Blackcat31 10:20 AM 03-03-2017
Originally Posted by Guest Mamma:
My first daughter is currently at an in-home daycare and new baby girl will be going there starting mid-June (or so we hope). The lady that runs the daycare has a maximum capacity of 6 kids at one time and no more than two of them can be under the age of 2 at one time. I am not sure if this is standard practice for all in-home daycares (since she is the sole provider for her business), but this is how she has always run her daycare. She currently has 5 kids total of which two of the kids are under the age of 2 now, but one of them will turn 2 at the beginning of June, so new baby couldn't be accepted by her until that time anyways.

She has just requested that we start paying her full-pay "to save that infant spot" until my new baby can start mid-June! That means that she is asking us for 15 weeks of full-pay for an infant that she can't even watch until the current baby turns 2 and by her rule anyways!!
I would understand if she wanted us to pay to "hold the spot" immediately after one of the babies turns 2 (early June), but to ask us to pay for a spot; 1) before my baby is even born and 2) before she can "legally/ethically" begin to watch my baby (under her set rules)?

Is this normal and has anyone else been asked to do this? Just looking for advice and to see if anyone else has been in a similar situation.
You are asking her to go without income for 15 weeks so that the space will be ready and available when you need it?

See how that works? If you want the space, you need to pay for it so she holds it for when you are ready to use it. If she doesn't get income for the space, she would need to fill it with someone else and then the space wouldnt be available for when you need it.

My rates are all based on enrollment NOT attendance or time used. I can't hold an empty space so that someone else can have it when they're ready. Daycare isn't charity and although most providers do this because they truly love children, it's their income and how they pay their bills and feed their families.
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Josiegirl 10:22 AM 03-03-2017
Some providers do it this way, some don't. I have the same rules as she does; the state allows me 6 dcks, only 2 which can be under 2. If I have to keep that slot empty for so long, I'm losing money. It sounds like you have a choice of paying it or accepting the fact she might very well look for other dcks to keep her filled. Is it normal? Depends on your area. But if it's her rule, it's her rule. Certainly nothing illegal about it.
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Cat Herder 10:27 AM 03-03-2017
She could enroll a child over 2, today, and the slot would be gone. Full payment is what I would expect as well.
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Blackcat31 10:31 AM 03-03-2017
Originally Posted by Guest Mamma:
My first daughter is currently at an in-home daycare and new baby girl will be going there starting mid-June (or so we hope). The lady that runs the daycare has a maximum capacity of 6 kids at one time and no more than two of them can be under the age of 2 at one time. I am not sure if this is standard practice for all in-home daycares (since she is the sole provider for her business), but this is how she has always run her daycare. She currently has 5 kids total of which two of the kids are under the age of 2 now, but one of them will turn 2 at the beginning of June, so new baby couldn't be accepted by her until that time anyways.

She has just requested that we start paying her full-pay "to save that infant spot" until my new baby can start mid-June! That means that she is asking us for 15 weeks of full-pay for an infant that she can't even watch until the current baby turns 2 and by her rule anyways!!
I would understand if she wanted us to pay to "hold the spot" immediately after one of the babies turns 2 (early June), but to ask us to pay for a spot; 1) before my baby is even born and 2) before she can "legally/ethically" begin to watch my baby (under her set rules)?

Is this normal and has anyone else been asked to do this? Just looking for advice and to see if anyone else has been in a similar situation.
Okay, re-reading I see that one of the children under age 2 wont be age 2 until June and she wants you to pay now.

Maybe she is losing the 2 yr old or maybe she has had other interest in the space?

I dont know but I think you should have this conversation with her and ask her to explain why she wants to charge you for a space that technically isn't available.

She could explain it since it is her rule but most providers DO charge a holding fee or some kind to hold or reserve spaces as a reassurance they are getting a client and filling a space.

Its common for families to "say" they are going to start care after 2nd child but then days before decide to stay home and then the provider is out not only the infant but the older sibling as well.
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Cat Herder 10:35 AM 03-03-2017
Originally Posted by Guest Mamma:
maximum capacity of 6 kids

currently has 5 kids total
This is the issue, IMHO.
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Unregistered 10:36 AM 03-03-2017
I have the same state regulated ratios, 6kids total and only 3 under the age of two, two of them must be walking.

I charge from the minute you ask for a space I have available. If I am holding a spot then I must get paid, regardless of attendance. Otherwise I would find someone else to fill if. I financially could not wait over 3 months for a paycheck.

The nice thing is, you are in control of your decision. You can secure the spot and not have to worry about finding quality care or you have 15 weeks to secure a different care situation (plenty of time to find some just as great as your current provider.)
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daycarediva 11:00 AM 03-03-2017
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
She could enroll a child over 2, today, and the slot would be gone. Full payment is what I would expect as well.
This would be my reasoning. She has an opening that she COULD fill today with an over 2. She waits until June so that the under 2 could attend, she lost the income for that length of time.

How many times have providers held spaces, taken an income loss, only for the parent to change their mind?

I have the same ratios, and I would do the same.
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Leigh 11:08 AM 03-03-2017
I charge the same way. She has 5 spots filled. You're asking her not to fill the 6th spot, but to hold it for your baby. If she does that, she needs to be compensated for the ENTIRE spot, so as to protect her income. 6 spots isn't a lot to make a living off of. When I set rates, I figured out what I needed to stay in business. I took that amount and divided it by my number of spaces. If I let a space sit empty for a parent, I'd basically be GIVING them that portion of my income. I can't do that. Remember that what she charges and what she gets to keep are numbers that are far apart. If she's charging $150 per space, for example, she is likely keeping about $75 of that for herself after meeting expenses. When you're making $425 a week, that extra $75 is a lot of money to be losing.
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Play Care 11:08 AM 03-03-2017
Normally I would say you can't get paid for a spot you don't have.
And technically, she doesn't have an infant spot.
I wonder if her regs are like the one in my state - the only way I get a 6th spot is if everyone in the DC is 2 and up. Otherwise, anyone under 2 means I'm only allowed 5 spots.

I would have no issue asking for pay for a spot I have open to keep the spot But this seems a bit of a grey area.
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mommyneedsadayoff 11:09 AM 03-03-2017
Originally Posted by Guest Mamma:
My first daughter is currently at an in-home daycare and new baby girl will be going there starting mid-June (or so we hope). The lady that runs the daycare has a maximum capacity of 6 kids at one time and no more than two of them can be under the age of 2 at one time. I am not sure if this is standard practice for all in-home daycares (since she is the sole provider for her business), but this is how she has always run her daycare. She currently has 5 kids total of which two of the kids are under the age of 2 now, but one of them will turn 2 at the beginning of June, so new baby couldn't be accepted by her until that time anyways.

She has just requested that we start paying her full-pay "to save that infant spot" until my new baby can start mid-June! That means that she is asking us for 15 weeks of full-pay for an infant that she can't even watch until the current baby turns 2 and by her rule anyways!!
I would understand if she wanted us to pay to "hold the spot" immediately after one of the babies turns 2 (early June), but to ask us to pay for a spot; 1) before my baby is even born and 2) before she can "legally/ethically" begin to watch my baby (under her set rules)?

Is this normal and has anyone else been asked to do this? Just looking for advice and to see if anyone else has been in a similar situation.
She CAN fill that spot with an over 2 child right now, so if you want to stay and have a spot for your baby, i would pay. Infant care can be hard to find around here because of the very reasons you described (limited ratio).
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daycarediva 11:14 AM 03-03-2017
Originally Posted by Play Care:
Normally I would say you can't get paid for a spot you don't have.
And technically, she doesn't have an infant spot.
I wonder if her regs are like the one in my state - the only way I get a 6th spot is if everyone in the DC is 2 and up. Otherwise, anyone under 2 means I'm only allowed 5 spots.

I would have no issue asking for pay for a spot I have open to keep the spot But this seems a bit of a grey area.
Is that on your license? because I have 6 spaces, 2 can be under 2. I always have 6 kids here and have had 2 under 2 before (18m-24m) Everyone locally is that way, unless they have limits on their license (I've seen some 4 kid max in apartments)

My registrar was just saying that if UPK goes full day in our district, those kids count as SA. So I could have 8 under 5. (I'm honestly hoping that happens)
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Guest Mamma 11:18 AM 03-03-2017
Thanks for all the advice!!

Yes, and I would be fine with her filling that 6th spot with an over 2 child. Since my older daughter is currently holding 1 spot, I could always pull her out when the infant spot becomes available in June. At least that would give me some time to find a preschool for my older daughter and I would have no problem paying for the infant spot as soon as the one baby turns 2. I just don't understand how she could basically "sell out" a current family for one that she doesn't even know, but I guess it's her business to run.
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Cat Herder 11:23 AM 03-03-2017
Originally Posted by Guest Mamma:
I just don't understand how she could basically "sell out" a current family for one that she doesn't even know, but I guess it's her business to run.
That is just it. It is a business. You are telling her that the slot is not worth paying for, to you.

Be prepared for her to no longer be willing to take your infant if you pull your older child. I would not. I would see you as a bad financial risk to my livelihood.

Good luck and congrats on your new baby.
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CityGarden 11:26 AM 03-03-2017
Reading the first post I initially thought how unfair.... but then I realized IF the provider filled her open spot today (for a child 2+) then there would be no spot for your infant come June when the current infant she has turns 2.

Right now she has 5 if she adds one she will have 6 which = no spaces regardless of age. When the infant she has turns 2 she would still be full with 6 children. IF she holds the open spots for the current infant to ensure your infant is able to come she would have to go without pay for that spot for months..... which is beyond what she should offer and most providers cannot afford to do so.

Infant care is so hard to come by I would pay it happily to ensure my child was in good care. I checked with my daughter's old preschool center and parents get on their waitlist the second they are pregnant ---- they pay for the spot the moment is opens regardless if they are 3 months pregnant or the baby is 6 weeks old. They offer the spot by date requested and either you take it or move to the bottom of the wait list.
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Play Care 11:28 AM 03-03-2017
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
Is that on your license? because I have 6 spaces, 2 can be under 2. I always have 6 kids here and have had 2 under 2 before (18m-24m) Everyone locally is that way, unless they have limits on their license (I've seen some 4 kid max in apartments)

My registrar was just saying that if UPK goes full day in our district, those kids count as SA. So I could have 8 under 5. (I'm honestly hoping that happens)
HOLY Sh!T !!
So, I just actually looked at the license that's been hanging on my wall for 3 years now.
You're right!!! I have an extra flicking spot I haven't filled because of the way the regs were when I started
Back when I started it was 5 FT kids with 2 under 2, and if everyone was 2 and up you got that "extra" 6th spot.
Off to advertise
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Play Care 11:38 AM 03-03-2017
Originally Posted by Play Care:
HOLY Sh!T !!
So, I just actually looked at the license that's been hanging on my wall for 3 years now.
You're right!!! I have an extra flicking spot I haven't filled because of the way the regs were when I started
Back when I started it was 5 FT kids with 2 under 2, and if everyone was 2 and up you got that "extra" 6th spot.
Off to advertise
Okay, nm. I guess I did know because I always kept that spot filled with a SA kid. I just forgot. Because I am obviously losing my mind.
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mommyneedsadayoff 11:38 AM 03-03-2017
Originally Posted by Guest Mamma:
Thanks for all the advice!!

Yes, and I would be fine with her filling that 6th spot with an over 2 child. Since my older daughter is currently holding 1 spot, I could always pull her out when the infant spot becomes available in June. At least that would give me some time to find a preschool for my older daughter and I would have no problem paying for the infant spot as soon as the one baby turns 2. I just don't understand how she could basically "sell out" a current family for one that she doesn't even know, but I guess it's her business to run.
Have you told her any of this? I am curious what she would say if you let her know what your plans are, especially about pulling your daughter out. See, you think she is "selling you out" because she is trying to keep a steady income so she can run her business, yet you are ready to drop her for a provider you don't even know because of money. My guess is that she is holding that 6th spot FOR YOU and does not want to fill it because she is planing on having BOTH your kids come June. You have not informed her that she may only have one if she is requiring you pay to hold the spot, so I would have a conversation with her and fill her in (I would be advertising to fill two spots if it was me you told that too). If you love her and trust her with your kids, don't let money ruin that relationship! Trust me...it is priceless!
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Guest Mamma 11:52 AM 03-03-2017
Originally Posted by mommyneedsadayoff:
Have you told her any of this? I am curious what she would say if you let her know what your plans are, especially about pulling your daughter out. See, you think she is "selling you out" because she is trying to keep a steady income so she can run her business, yet you are ready to drop her for a provider you don't even know because of money. My guess is that she is holding that 6th spot FOR YOU and does not want to fill it because she is planing on having BOTH your kids come June. You have not informed her that she may only have one if she is requiring you pay to hold the spot, so I would have a conversation with her and fill her in (I would politely give you your two week notice). If you love her and trust her with your kids, don't let money ruin that relationship! Trust me...it is priceless!
Yes, we have told her that we were planning to transition my daughter to a preschool/pre-k school before she goes to kindergarten and have been planning to do that sometime this fall, so she is well aware of that happening. She also has had an open 6th spot since last August, so she has had plenty of time to fill that open spot, but has chosen not to at her own expense. She just recently gave us a deadline for us to tell her where we are planning to take the new baby once she arrives.

We are planning to have a conversation about this tonight and hope everything will work itself out for all parties involved!
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Snowmom 12:07 PM 03-03-2017
Originally Posted by Guest Mamma:
Yes, we have told her that we were planning to transition my daughter to a preschool/pre-k school before she goes to kindergarten and have been planning to do that sometime this fall, so she is well aware of that happening. She also has had an open 6th spot since last August, so she has had plenty of time to fill that open spot, but has chosen not to at her own expense. She just recently gave us a deadline for us to tell her where we are planning to take the new baby once she arrives.

We are planning to have a conversation about this tonight and hope everything will work itself out for all parties involved!
Good for her!
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mommyneedsadayoff 12:21 PM 03-03-2017
Originally Posted by Guest Mamma:
Yes, we have told her that we were planning to transition my daughter to a preschool/pre-k school before she goes to kindergarten and have been planning to do that sometime this fall, so she is well aware of that happening. She also has had an open 6th spot since last August, so she has had plenty of time to fill that open spot, but has chosen not to at her own expense. She just recently gave us a deadline for us to tell her where we are planning to take the new baby once she arrives.

We are planning to have a conversation about this tonight and hope everything will work itself out for all parties involved!
Good! Communication is key! I hope you know that I am just trying to give the provider perspective, so I am not trying to be harsh Just thinking out loud here, but do you think she is charging you the holding fee because she may be trying to get you leave on your own? When did you tell her you plan to enroll your dh in preschool? For some providers, that can be offensive and it may have rubbed her the wrong way. She may be feeling like she is working her booty off caring for your kid and now you plan to drop her for a preschool, which is probably what you will do for your new baby when it is time too. I am not saying that is the case, but for me personally, if you told me that come June, I may have both kids, or I may just have one, and then come August, I may be be losing one of the kids that I might still have, it would make me feel very insecure about my potential income from your family and for many providers, putting a price on that insecurity is the only solution besides terming, kwim?

Anyway, just some thoughts and I hope it all works out for you! Keep us posted!

(and just one other note. When you speak with her, I would avoid trying to tell her what she can and can't do with her business, in regards to the ratio stuff and keeping her spots full. I have let spots sit empty because I was content with my group and then the furnace goes bonkers and I need to fill that spot quickly. Stuff happens and things change, but really the only discussion is whether you are willing to do what she is asking of you to keep your spot. Otherwise, I would just move on if you can't. It will be awkward otherwise.)
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daycarediva 09:38 AM 03-06-2017
Originally Posted by Play Care:
HOLY Sh!T !!
So, I just actually looked at the license that's been hanging on my wall for 3 years now.
You're right!!! I have an extra flicking spot I haven't filled because of the way the regs were when I started
Back when I started it was 5 FT kids with 2 under 2, and if everyone was 2 and up you got that "extra" 6th spot.
Off to advertise
Originally Posted by Play Care:
Okay, nm. I guess I did know because I always kept that spot filled with a SA kid. I just forgot. Because I am obviously losing my mind.
You're killing me.

Originally Posted by mommyneedsadayoff:
Good! Communication is key! I hope you know that I am just trying to give the provider perspective, so I am not trying to be harsh Just thinking out loud here, but do you think she is charging you the holding fee because she may be trying to get you leave on your own? When did you tell her you plan to enroll your dh in preschool? For some providers, that can be offensive and it may have rubbed her the wrong way. She may be feeling like she is working her booty off caring for your kid and now you plan to drop her for a preschool, which is probably what you will do for your new baby when it is time too. I am not saying that is the case, but for me personally, if you told me that come June, I may have both kids, or I may just have one, and then come August, I may be be losing one of the kids that I might still have, it would make me feel very insecure about my potential income from your family and for many providers, putting a price on that insecurity is the only solution besides terming, kwim?

Anyway, just some thoughts and I hope it all works out for you! Keep us posted!

(and just one other note. When you speak with her, I would avoid trying to tell her what she can and can't do with her business, in regards to the ratio stuff and keeping her spots full. I have let spots sit empty because I was content with my group and then the furnace goes bonkers and I need to fill that spot quickly. Stuff happens and things change, but really the only discussion is whether you are willing to do what she is asking of you to keep your spot. Otherwise, I would just move on if you can't. It will be awkward otherwise.)
Yes, this. It isn't meant to be harsh, but it's the only business I am aware of where the business owner is seen as 'harsh' for wanting to earn what her potential spaces allow.

I agree- the preschool push down has affected providers and especially sibling sets. I am seeing many families attempt to pull one child but leave the younger sibling without success. The provider KNOWS you're going to pull the younger sib for preschool, too so she's apt to fill both spaces. I really HATE taking sibling sets, and this is one of the reasons, it's twice the income to lose.
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Tags:holding spot - fee, holding spot - pregnancy
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