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Old 05-09-2018, 10:31 PM
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Default So Tired Of Unlicensed Over Ratio Providers

In my state the ratio for unlicensed care is 1:4.

I have come across two programs that advertise themselves as preschools today. One had a ratio of 1:15 and another had a ratio of 1:10.



DHS website says this:

A complaint is a suspected violation of Arizona state rules and/or statutes governing the operations of licensed child care centers or certified group homes. The Department only has jurisdiction over those matters that are governed by either rules or statutes.

Not even sure they can/would investigate a provider who was over ratio.
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Old 05-10-2018, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Beluga View Post
In my state the ratio for unlicensed care is 1:4.

I have come across two programs that advertise themselves as preschools today. One had a ratio of 1:15 and another had a ratio of 1:10.



DHS website says this:

A complaint is a suspected violation of Arizona state rules and/or statutes governing the operations of licensed child care centers or certified group homes. The Department only has jurisdiction over those matters that are governed by either rules or statutes.

Not even sure they can/would investigate a provider who was over ratio.
Sadly there isn't much any state can do it seems. I know there are some that have consequences but apparently it's not important enough for other states to really police illegal care situations.

I imagine it's difficult to know (the definition isn't always rigid) for sure if someone is a child care provider (business) or just babysitting once in a blue moon. I mean yes, we know but knowing and proving are two different things.

Plus the money and man power it would require? I can't even begin to grasp that thought....especially since many of the Health and Human Services/DHS agencies are so over loaded with cases as it is.

It's sad for sure and I understand as it happens here in my area all the time....the best we (as providers) can do is educate....I post links to licensing look up sites, to sites that discuss dangers or illegal care and links to horror stories we read about when providers are over ratios and uninsured.

Educating parents seems to be the most productive way of getting anything accomplished in this issue.
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Old 05-10-2018, 09:13 AM
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I was just going to ask about this the other day and was side tracked... I have an aquantice that also does childcare. Our state is 1:6 ratio for children under 6 and no more than 2 under 2 at the same time. Well she has 6 children herself and then 7 daycare children. Iím more concerned that her husband is a known addict (herione, meth, crack cocaine) and does not work and hangs around the house all day. Because she is not licensed, I donít know who I could report this too. She will also know it would be me because she has vented certain things to me in the past. I keep an arms length away from her because of her husband and their issues they have. Iím not too concerned for about her being upset with me than I am for the well being of the children in her care. Several of her children have behavioral problems and are emotionally unstable (even had evaluations done by hospital) because of the stuff theyíve witnessed between the 2 of them. She charges bottom dollar and thatís appealing to some parents. Would this be a reportable to CPS? I donít know where to start?
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Old 05-10-2018, 09:28 AM
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I report. Every time.

Eventually, someone will have to account for all those "failed to follow through inspections" when something does happen and an anonymous (totally going to be me) source sends copies of each and every one to the media.
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Old 05-10-2018, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
I report. Every time.

Eventually, someone will have to account for all those "failed to follow through inspections" when something does happen and an anonymous (totally going to be me) source sends copies of each and every one to the media.
Maybe I'm extra cynical today, but I doubt it will be the people who should have been inspecting/ enforcing regs. It will be a repeat of the same pattern as before:

Licensing ignores illegal providers
Something bad happens
Uproar that doesn't distinguish between legal and illegal providers
Licensing hammers legal providers for a while so it looks like they are doing "something"
Licensing backs off to the point they were at before
Rinse and repeat
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Old 05-10-2018, 02:32 PM
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The frustrating part is in order to make a complaint you have to provide darn near everything except your social. And it is all public record. Including the person making the report.

I am assuming this is to cut down on reports, thereby reducing DHS' work load.
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Old 05-10-2018, 04:17 PM
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Are they advertising their ratios?
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Old 05-10-2018, 05:08 PM
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Are they advertising their ratios?
Yes. Websites and Facebook. I came across both ads last night while I was browsing through a local buy/sell FB group.
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Old 05-10-2018, 09:58 PM
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Michigan had an online form that allows as much or a little info that you want/can give.

If I report a fb post, I just copy and paste the post link along with what they posted. I never fill out my information.
Later the post disappers and that SAHM looking for cash under that table stops advertising.

There are some presistant SAHM that will switch the group they advertise in but most will stop.

As for commenting to let them know instead of reporting, if you comment they tend to block you and repost later.

I was talking to another local provider and she brought up a SAHM that she reported (I had too but did not mention it). She told me that she knows her and she was not stable and was not able to obtain a DC license. That is why she was illegally operating instead of becoming legal.
Because we both reported, she was fined and possibly jailed. Three months later she was back posting again. In her post she commented that people need to mind their business. (Her post also include name address and number) She got caught again and was shocked. (I didn't report her the second time) I have not seen her post since.
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Old 05-11-2018, 06:34 AM
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Being reported here is like winning a small lottery if you truly want to start your own home daycare. It isn't punitive. They come out, hand you all the resources, paperwork, free training and technical assistance on a silver platter. They hold your hand and give you stuff. Scary.

It is easier and more welcoming to have been reported than if you simply tried to follow the rules and open a family child care in the "correct manner". They know that most people don't even consider that you would have to be licensed to keep 2 kids for pay, so they (mentors) don't treat them like criminals.

Truth be told it is a ridiculous law that specifies "for pay". 2 for pay . The religious and migrant exemptions (they can be warehoused, are most at risk and no one cares ) make the true goals clear under the political firestorm umbrella of "quality" and "safety". Follow the money.
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Old 05-11-2018, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 284878 View Post
Michigan had an online form that allows as much or a little info that you want/can give.
I wish we had something like that here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
Being reported here is like winning a small lottery if you truly want to start your own home daycare. It isn't punitive. They come out, hand you all the resources, paperwork, free training and technical assistance on a silver platter. They hold your hand and give you stuff. Scary.

It is easier and more welcoming to have been reported than if you simply tried to follow the rules and open a family child care in the "correct manner". They know that most people don't even consider that you would have to be licensed to keep 2 kids for pay, so they (mentors) don't treat them like criminals.

Truth be told it is a ridiculous law that specifies "for pay". 2 for pay . The religious and migrant exemptions (they can be warehoused, are most at risk and no one cares ) make the true goals clear under the political firestorm umbrella of "quality" and "safety". Follow the money.
I think AZ as a whole doesn't really want licensed family childcare. The process is difficult and last I checked way more expensive when compared to other states.

It's almost a head in sand situation.

Until someone gets hurt. Then all heck breaks loose.
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Old 05-11-2018, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Beluga View Post
I wish we had something like that here.



I think AZ as a whole doesn't really want licensed family childcare. The process is difficult and last I checked way more expensive when compared to other states.

It's almost a head in sand situation.

Until someone gets hurt. Then all heck breaks loose.
This is how it is here as well. Absolutely no incentive to become a licensed provider. No incentive to become an ECE and you make more money at home than working in most centres where ECE is a requirement.

I see so many providers over ratio and our ratios are super strict here. One day I saw a provider with 10 kids and we are only allowed 5 and some licensed providers are allowed 6 with no more than 2 under 2. My daycare parent told me that I am the only one that actually follows rules as she has a few providers on her street. These people are my direct competition because they can offer $35 a day when they are way over ratio. No one polices it and as an ECE I am mandated to report which I am not going to do. I don’t get paid enough to police others. The government puts out the rules, then the gov’t should be the one to make sure people are following it.
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Old 05-11-2018, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Beluga View Post
Yes. Websites and Facebook. I came across both ads last night while I was browsing through a local buy/sell FB group.
Then print out the proof and send it to licensing . Thatís what Iíd do.
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Old 05-11-2018, 01:10 PM
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Id like to think that be me spending the money and precious time to start and run a home daycare the right way and take those trainings like I'm supposed to, thus charging more for my care, i am obviously more qualified but that it will and has proved itself in those cases of "care providers" or "babysitters" that watch kids unlicensed and children get hurt.
id also like to think the parents have the sense for their childs safety to choose me over ones unlicensed and over ratio for this reason.
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