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lflick 09:09 AM 06-19-2013
So many of you may recall my post(s) about a difficult toddler that was being evaluated for things such as ASD. Well the report is not completely done yet; however, the OT informed mom and I that there is a clear SPD... she suggested things like weighed vests and what not. I am familiar with SPD as one of my children had some issues as a toddler as well.... What I am wondering is just how much am I expected to change what we do to accommodate this? I mean mom printed off a library for me to "read" which I have no time to do so... not to mention I personally feel as it is not my responsibility to research this... I told mom when the treatment plan is finalized I would like a copy as it bullets what the issues are as well as offers a few suggestions to help.

I guess I am not sure if my feelings are appropriate.... I feel that he should be able to conform to our schedule and activities and I do not think it is fair that mom is expecting me to all but do back flips out of an airplane to make sure things go smoothly.....

In all honesty, I struggle daily with DCB... the excessive whining when he is not treated as the only one makes the whole atmosphere unpleasant. I do have a lot of patience and have grown more out of sheer necessity to survive the day. One thing that has recently become excessive is the oral fixation... literally EVERYTHING goes in his mouth.... he even started to bite my furniture (which I am having a hard time "being ok with")....
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cheerfuldom 09:23 AM 06-19-2013
I completely understand this! My middle daughter has SPD and there is no way she would do well at a daycare. She was a nightmare as a toddler. I know that is harsh coming from a mother but seriously, there is absolutely no way, no how, not ever would I willingly take care of her if she wasnt my daughter, it was that bad. She single handedly changed my whole daycare set up and is the main reason why I would never get licensed and take on more kids. She really needs a lot of one on one attention, a lot of supervision, a lot of sensory outlets (aka hours outside, sensory based activities indoors)

I did A LOT of research on my own, talked to tons of people, read tons of books and now at almost 4, her behavior is manageable but still, beyond exhausting. I STILL would not inflict her on anyone that was not a trained professional.

All this to say, I would have a frank conversation with mom right now about what you can and cannot provide as well as a timeline of your expectations. Does she know what your daily schedule is like and what expectations you have for the kids in care? Now that you know this is a long term struggle for this little guy, I would be honest in saying that you are not trained or prepared to deal with a child that needs this much attention and that your program is not a good fit. You dont have to say anything further about your journey with your own child that has sensory needs. Just because you were willing or able to do something for your own child does not mean that you are willing to do that for a daycare child, or that you even have too.

If you are licensed, make sure you talk to your licensor about the best way to approach a situation with a special needs child. You need to know what your rights are as far as terming a child that requires too much attention and is not a right fit, based on his special needs. Just cover all your bases so you are not discriminating if you have to term.
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lflick 09:33 AM 06-19-2013
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
I completely understand this! My middle daughter has SPD and there is no way she would do well at a daycare. She was a nightmare as a toddler. I know that is harsh coming from a mother but seriously, there is absolutely no way, no how, not ever would I willingly take care of her if she wasnt my daughter, it was that bad. She single handedly changed my whole daycare set up and is the main reason why I would never get licensed and take on more kids. She really needs a lot of one on one attention, a lot of supervision, a lot of sensory outlets (aka hours outside, sensory based activities indoors)

I did A LOT of research on my own, talked to tons of people, read tons of books and now at almost 4, her behavior is manageable but still, beyond exhausting. I STILL would not inflict her on anyone that was not a trained professional.

All this to say, I would have a frank conversation with mom right now about what you can and cannot provide as well as a timeline of your expectations. Does she know what your daily schedule is like and what expectations you have for the kids in care? Now that you know this is a long term struggle for this little guy, I would be honest in saying that you are not trained or prepared to deal with a child that needs this much attention and that your program is not a good fit. You dont have to say anything further about your journey with your own child that has sensory needs. Just because you were willing or able to do something for your own child does not mean that you are willing to do that for a daycare child, or that you even have too.

If you are licensed, make sure you talk to your licensor about the best way to approach a situation with a special needs child. You need to know what your rights are as far as terming a child that requires too much attention and is not a right fit, based on his special needs. Just cover all your bases so you are not discriminating if you have to term.

My son was beyond frustrating as well. Some of the things he did were just straight up scary! (ie.. packing his food, eating rocks) He has thankfully since blossomed into a very intelligent, calm, can't get enough of little boy that steals everyone's heart.... it however did NOT happen over night and without struggle. He is currently my only child that I have on a regular basis, beside my own but even they are frustrated and they are used to noise and what not. I can not take my eyes off of him for a second... I have to pee with the door open.... every time I turn around I all but knock him over because he is right there.... everything in the mouth, pinching, biting, pacing, constant noise making such as whining or loudly moaning, he is NOT a good sleeper anymore..... Mom knows the schedule and states she understands in one breathe and then in the next suggests I serve him lunch whenever he feels like it, or multiple times a day... let him sleep whenever.... basically make it all about him.... I really did not sign up for that. Also mom wants his therapists to work with him here... problem is, they come when they have time and it is not at all conducive to me keeping my schedule. I feel perhaps he needs a nanny until he is more ready to be in a social setting, but that is just my opinion.
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cheerfuldom 09:45 AM 06-19-2013
Originally Posted by lflick:
My son was beyond frustrating as well. Some of the things he did were just straight up scary! (ie.. packing his food, eating rocks) He has thankfully since blossomed into a very intelligent, calm, can't get enough of little boy that steals everyone's heart.... it however did NOT happen over night and without struggle. He is currently my only child that I have on a regular basis, beside my own but even they are frustrated and they are used to noise and what not. I can not take my eyes off of him for a second... I have to pee with the door open.... every time I turn around I all but knock him over because he is right there.... everything in the mouth, pinching, biting, pacing, constant noise making such as whining or loudly moaning, he is NOT a good sleeper anymore..... Mom knows the schedule and states she understands in one breathe and then in the next suggests I serve him lunch whenever he feels like it, or multiple times a day... let him sleep whenever.... basically make it all about him.... I really did not sign up for that. Also mom wants his therapists to work with him here... problem is, they come when they have time and it is not at all conducive to me keeping my schedule. I feel perhaps he needs a nanny until he is more ready to be in a social setting, but that is just my opinion.
This is all mom's problem, not yours. If he needs therapy and you are not willing to have it at your house, she needs to pick him up and take him there and back or schedule it outside of daycare hours. Honestly, I think you need to get your ducks in a row to term. She is throwing all this on you to fix and that will never work. Kids this severe really need one caregiver that is essentially a slave to the demands of caring for a high needs kid. Its hard, its totally not fun, but its the moms job to figure out. You need to decide if you can deal with this till this child goes to full day school or if you need to just move on to another family that is a better fit. If you dont want to straight out term, let her know what you wont be able to do and continually suggest that if she needs something else, she finds new daycare that can provide what you cannot not.

"I will not be able to allow his therapy sessions here"
"But why not?!?"
"I won't be able to allow his therapy sessions here. If you have to have them during daycare hours, I understand if you need to look for a daycare situation that does allow that"

NEVER get into all the reasons why not because that is opening the door to negotiating and arguments.
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lflick 09:53 AM 06-19-2013
I am more or less waiting for the final treatment plan. Once this is done I feel I will be able to make my best assessment of what I can and am willing to offer as well as what I am unable to. Right now I feel overwhelmed yet keep hoping the days get easier. Realistically I understand that it will take a great deal of time, most probably more than I can reasonably be expected to provide.
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countrymom 10:23 AM 06-19-2013
so now you have a diagnoses and now mom wants you to do all the work. So what is she going to do when your doing all the leg work.
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daycarediva 10:48 AM 06-19-2013
I would absolutely call my licensar and request her advice.

I would probably be terming, or getting her to term herself. You already know how much work this is. I have a son with ASD and SPD and I empathize.

I would also be putting ALL of this back on Mom. For instance if the treatment plan includes weighted vests, Mom needs to supply one to leave at your house. If it includes different meals, then Mom can supply her own. Therapy cannot be done in your home, Mom needs to arrange for his therapy (good luck with this after hours). You cannot accommodate all over nap schedules, so when he falls asleep at 10am and that is outdoor time, call Mom for pickup. If anything in the treatment plan goes against what you are comfortable with in your home/by yourself/with a group of kids, I would outline this in an agreement, in writing, SIGNED by the mom.
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MarinaVanessa 10:56 AM 06-19-2013
Originally Posted by lflick:
So many of you may recall my post(s) about a difficult toddler that was being evaluated for things such as ASD. Well the report is not completely done yet; however, the OT informed mom and I that there is a clear SPD... she suggested things like weighed vests and what not. I am familiar with SPD as one of my children had some issues as a toddler as well.... What I am wondering is just how much am I expected to change what we do to accommodate this? I mean mom printed off a library for me to "read" which I have no time to do so... not to mention I personally feel as it is not my responsibility to research this... I told mom when the treatment plan is finalized I would like a copy as it bullets what the issues are as well as offers a few suggestions to help.

I guess I am not sure if my feelings are appropriate.... I feel that he should be able to conform to our schedule and activities and I do not think it is fair that mom is expecting me to all but do back flips out of an airplane to make sure things go smoothly.....

In all honesty, I struggle daily with DCB... the excessive whining when he is not treated as the only one makes the whole atmosphere unpleasant. I do have a lot of patience and have grown more out of sheer necessity to survive the day. One thing that has recently become excessive is the oral fixation... literally EVERYTHING goes in his mouth.... he even started to bite my furniture (which I am having a hard time "being ok with")....
I think that as long as DCM doesn't expect you to change your entire daycare structure you will be fine, otherwise perhaps it is time for DCM to look for alternative child care arrangements. Really I think that the behavior, regardless of whether the child has a special need or not, is not acceptable behavior and needs to be worked on. The mouthing for example is not sanitary and needs to be addressed and worked on. I think the best thing for DCM to hope for is for you to learn or be trained on how to communicate and interact with this DCB to be both proactive and reactive to this child's challenging behaviors. Simply knowing how to interact with DCB and how to guide him may help him immensely.

Certain accommodations can be expected in certain situations but you are running group care and so accommodations must be conducive to group care. DCM expecting you to change your child care philosophy, a majority of your schedule or one-on-one face time with her child is not reasonable but changes like offering the child certain recommended activities, alternatives to mouthing anything he wants by providing certain things that can be mouthed (and that only he touches), planning more physical activity games for the child when outdoors etc (all of which will depend on what the plan that the child's Dr comes up with) are all within reason. If you have a schedule or routine and the DCM expects you to completely change it is just not realistic, changing and tweaking it with minor changes is. KWIM?
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Laurel 11:34 AM 06-19-2013
Originally Posted by lflick:
So many of you may recall my post(s) about a difficult toddler that was being evaluated for things such as ASD. Well the report is not completely done yet; however, the OT informed mom and I that there is a clear SPD... she suggested things like weighed vests and what not. I am familiar with SPD as one of my children had some issues as a toddler as well.... What I am wondering is just how much am I expected to change what we do to accommodate this? I mean mom printed off a library for me to "read" which I have no time to do so... not to mention I personally feel as it is not my responsibility to research this... I told mom when the treatment plan is finalized I would like a copy as it bullets what the issues are as well as offers a few suggestions to help.

I guess I am not sure if my feelings are appropriate.... I feel that he should be able to conform to our schedule and activities and I do not think it is fair that mom is expecting me to all but do back flips out of an airplane to make sure things go smoothly.....

In all honesty, I struggle daily with DCB... the excessive whining when he is not treated as the only one makes the whole atmosphere unpleasant. I do have a lot of patience and have grown more out of sheer necessity to survive the day. One thing that has recently become excessive is the oral fixation... literally EVERYTHING goes in his mouth.... he even started to bite my furniture (which I am having a hard time "being ok with")....
I have turned away a parent at an interview because her child needed what I couldn't offer in the way of a special need. She said I was discriminating and I told her that I am not a public institution so I have the right to choose what I can and cannot do. I felt sorry for her but one can only do what they can do. She seemed to think it was some 'law' that I had to give it a try.

Gosh, I feel so bad for children and their families with special needs. I used to be a sub for paraprofessionals in special ed classes in our public school system and some of that stuff is really rough. I remember one little girl telling me "I wish I could just be like other children." Soooo sad.

Laurel
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cheerfuldom 11:53 AM 06-19-2013
Originally Posted by lflick:
I am more or less waiting for the final treatment plan. Once this is done I feel I will be able to make my best assessment of what I can and am willing to offer as well as what I am unable to. Right now I feel overwhelmed yet keep hoping the days get easier. Realistically I understand that it will take a great deal of time, most probably more than I can reasonably be expected to provide.
Do you have a timeframe for the final treatment plan?

you know better than anyone else that nothing will change magically just because there is a plan in place. It will certainly be weeks, if not months, before there is a significant change in behavior and that is only if mom takes this seriously and puts in a lot of effort and time at home. It will be really easy for her to expect the therapist and you to deal with treatment and she just wait around for it to work.
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lflick 12:14 PM 06-19-2013
I would imagine within a week or so they will have their sit down meeting with the caregivers, parents, and therapists.
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MarinaVanessa 12:14 PM 06-19-2013
Originally Posted by Laurel:
I have turned away a parent at an interview because her child needed what I couldn't offer in the way of a special need. She said I was discriminating and I told her that I am not a public institution so I have the right to choose what I can and cannot do. I felt sorry for her but one can only do what they can do. She seemed to think it was some 'law' that I had to give it a try.

Gosh, I feel so bad for children and their families with special needs. I used to be a sub for paraprofessionals in special ed classes in our public school system and some of that stuff is really rough. I remember one little girl telling me "I wish I could just be like other children." Soooo sad.

Laurel
She was talking about the Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA) and it is a law. Be careful how you word a refusal. It is not a good idea to deny a child simply because they have some sort of disability. You must have a concrete reason to say no and completely assess the situation before denying a child with any type of special need even something as small as an allergy to peanuts to something as full blown as a child with severe down syndrome. Simply saying that you are not trained, don't have experience or don't have the means to make accommodations for a special needs child isn't enough, you'd have to have adequate reasons and proof that you in fact can't care for this child without jeopardizing the well being of the other children or your business.

For example, if the child was in a wheel chair and your only bathroom had a door that wouldn't accommodate for wheel chair access and accommodating for this child meant you needed to hire a contractor to enlarge the door opening which would require a considerable amount of money on your part. If you had a front porch for example that had steps and needed to build a ramp for the child to gain access into your home and the cost of materials and work was about $300 ... this amount is not a "considerable" amount and many times you can charge this amount to the parents so you wouldn't be able to use this excuse to deny the child. If you however lived in an HOA community which did not allow you to build a ramp on the exterior of your home then you could deny the child. Even the extra expense of additional insurance required by your insurance company isn't enough to be able to deny a child with a disability. However a child that is a direct threat to the other children can be denied because the safety of the others is also important.

The ADA is a federal regulation and applies to both private and public DC centers including registered, licensed and licence-exempt FCC. They all qualify to follow these regulations. Essentially what the rule of thumb is that when you choose to do group child care even though your home is private you are now considered a public space because you are offering services to the public.

Here's some handy packets to read for those that are interested:
Caring for Children with Special Needs: The Americans With Disabilities Act and Child Care

Child Care Law Center - Questions & Answers about the Americans with Disabilities Act: A Quick Reference for Child Care Providers
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Familycare71 01:02 PM 06-19-2013
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
She was talking about the Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA) and it is a law. Be careful how you word a refusal. It is not a good idea to deny a child simply because they have some sort of disability. You must have a concrete reason to say no and completely assess the situation before denying a child with any type of special need even something as small as an allergy to peanuts to something as full blown as a child with severe down syndrome. Simply saying that you are not trained, don't have experience or don't have the means to make accommodations for a special needs child isn't enough, you'd have to have adequate reasons and proof that you in fact can't care for this child without jeopardizing the well being of the other children or your business.

For example, if the child was in a wheel chair and your only bathroom had a door that wouldn't accommodate for wheel chair access and accommodating for this child meant you needed to hire a contractor to enlarge the door opening which would require a considerable amount of money on your part. If you had a front porch for example that had steps and needed to build a ramp for the child to gain access into your home and the cost of materials and work was about $300 ... this amount is not a "considerable" amount and many times you can charge this amount to the parents so you wouldn't be able to use this excuse to deny the child. If you however lived in an HOA community which did not allow you to build a ramp on the exterior of your home then you could deny the child. Even the extra expense of additional insurance required by your insurance company isn't enough to be able to deny a child with a disability. However a child that is a direct threat to the other children can be denied because the safety of the others is also important.

The ADA is a federal regulation and applies to both private and public DC centers including registered, licensed and licence-exempt FCC. They all qualify to follow these regulations. Essentially what the rule of thumb is that when you choose to do group child care even though your home is private you are now considered a public space because you are offering services to the public.

Here's some handy packets to read for those that are interested:
Caring for Children with Special Needs: The Americans With Disabilities Act and Child Care

Child Care Law Center - Questions & Answers about the Americans with Disabilities Act: A Quick Reference for Child Care Providers
Very good info!! Sometimes I get scared of what I could be for Ed to reasonably accommodate! I don't do well with major behavior issues-

As far as the OP... I have had therapies done at my home and I really enjoyed as did my other kids- I was very specific as to when I was ok to have them scheduled and they became part of our day... I learned a ton and more often than not they included the other children... It didnt just benefit my special needs kiddo but everyone
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Familycare71 01:02 PM 06-19-2013
Darn auto correct!! Forced!
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Laurel 01:37 PM 06-19-2013
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
She was talking about the Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA) and it is a law. Be careful how you word a refusal. It is not a good idea to deny a child simply because they have some sort of disability. You must have a concrete reason to say no and completely assess the situation before denying a child with any type of special need even something as small as an allergy to peanuts to something as full blown as a child with severe down syndrome. Simply saying that you are not trained, don't have experience or don't have the means to make accommodations for a special needs child isn't enough, you'd have to have adequate reasons and proof that you in fact can't care for this child without jeopardizing the well being of the other children or your business.

For example, if the child was in a wheel chair and your only bathroom had a door that wouldn't accommodate for wheel chair access and accommodating for this child meant you needed to hire a contractor to enlarge the door opening which would require a considerable amount of money on your part. If you had a front porch for example that had steps and needed to build a ramp for the child to gain access into your home and the cost of materials and work was about $300 ... this amount is not a "considerable" amount and many times you can charge this amount to the parents so you wouldn't be able to use this excuse to deny the child. If you however lived in an HOA community which did not allow you to build a ramp on the exterior of your home then you could deny the child. Even the extra expense of additional insurance required by your insurance company isn't enough to be able to deny a child with a disability. However a child that is a direct threat to the other children can be denied because the safety of the others is also important.

The ADA is a federal regulation and applies to both private and public DC centers including registered, licensed and licence-exempt FCC. They all qualify to follow these regulations. Essentially what the rule of thumb is that when you choose to do group child care even though your home is private you are now considered a public space because you are offering services to the public.

Here's some handy packets to read for those that are interested:
Caring for Children with Special Needs: The Americans With Disabilities Act and Child Care

Child Care Law Center - Questions & Answers about the Americans with Disabilities Act: A Quick Reference for Child Care Providers
Thanks, I know I interviewed way before 2009 as I've been doing childcare for 17 years now. It probably wasn't the law when I told her.

I'll be careful as I don't like to do any medical type things, for example, a nebulizer unless it is on a rare occasion.

Thanks for the info though.

Laurel
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Laurel 04:04 PM 06-19-2013
Oops, I just realized when the law was enacted. I think that mom was right.

Oh well, I know for the future although I plan to retire probably next year.

Laurel
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Sunchimes 04:49 PM 06-19-2013
I have a SPD child, just diagnosed recently. He is under-sensitive, so we don't have the meltdowns or tantrums (I am actually looking forward to his first tantrum-it means we are doing something right!), but doing the things suggested to help him focus and stop wandering aimlessly around the room putting things in his mouth is turning into a full time job. But, I'm loving it. That said, I'm not sure how I'd do if he was hypersensitive. We aren't big on schedules or routine around here.

Our therapists are wonderful and go out of their way to work with our schedule. I also try really hard to accommodate their scheduling needs. I think I may be really lucky with therapists.

About the mouthing-my DCB was a nightmare. As I understand, it is a way to find a grounding and a way to feel. They told us to give him a textured chewy toy clipped to a pacifier clip on his shirt. Every single time he puts something in his mouth, we remove it and put his chewy in, saying Use Chewy. After 2 weeks, I can tell a difference. If I haven't done his focus exercises, it's like the olden days, everything in his mouth. After a few exercises, I will see him reach down and grab his chewy instead of the block or book. Outside was a nightmare because every time I moved out of reach, dirt, rocks, pecans, sticks, and/or leaves was in his mouth. Now, I don't have to clean out his mouth more than once or twice when we are outside.

I have an opening coming up next month. The therapist told me that she was impressed with my commitment and how rare it was in our area to find a provider willing to work so closely with the child. I'm going to ask if she has a client that might want to move her SPD child into a small (3 kids) setting with lots of attention.
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lflick 10:40 AM 06-20-2013
So today was an awful day for DCB. He was non stop crying, not his usual whining type cry, but a loud cry.... he has also had a lot of nasal drainage the past two days but he was happy as can be (comparatively speaking) on Tue and Wed. Anyways little guy was so upset he was shaking. I had exhausted EVERY method of soothing... totally unsuccessful.

I had mom pick up. First she told me no it's not an emergency he is not sick his senses are probably on overload.... I informed her that I have exhausted every resource available and if in fact his senses are on overload for some reason I do not feel there is anything further I can do for him today. She tried to get me to have him watch tv (I did and no luck)... which was a last resort anyhow.... anyways I have this feeling I am the devil lady today. Was I wrong to send him home?
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Laurel 11:40 AM 06-20-2013
Originally Posted by lflick:
So today was an awful day for DCB. He was non stop crying, not his usual whining type cry, but a loud cry.... he has also had a lot of nasal drainage the past two days but he was happy as can be (comparatively speaking) on Tue and Wed. Anyways little guy was so upset he was shaking. I had exhausted EVERY method of soothing... totally unsuccessful.

I had mom pick up. First she told me no it's not an emergency he is not sick his senses are probably on overload.... I informed her that I have exhausted every resource available and if in fact his senses are on overload for some reason I do not feel there is anything further I can do for him today. She tried to get me to have him watch tv (I did and no luck)... which was a last resort anyhow.... anyways I have this feeling I am the devil lady today. Was I wrong to send him home?
Absolutely NOT. It isn't fair to the other children or you. You actually went above and beyond.

I think it was exactly the right thing to do.

Laurel
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MarinaVanessa 01:38 PM 06-20-2013
Originally Posted by lflick:
So today was an awful day for DCB. He was non stop crying, not his usual whining type cry, but a loud cry.... he has also had a lot of nasal drainage the past two days but he was happy as can be (comparatively speaking) on Tue and Wed. Anyways little guy was so upset he was shaking. I had exhausted EVERY method of soothing... totally unsuccessful.

I had mom pick up. First she told me no it's not an emergency he is not sick his senses are probably on overload.... I informed her that I have exhausted every resource available and if in fact his senses are on overload for some reason I do not feel there is anything further I can do for him today. She tried to get me to have him watch tv (I did and no luck)... which was a last resort anyhow.... anyways I have this feeling I am the devil lady today. Was I wrong to send him home?
No way! Without the proper tools to be able to sooth or help him then there isn't anything else you can do. You can't just let him cry the whole day. I mean really, what did mom think was going to happen .
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cheerfuldom 03:26 PM 06-20-2013
She needs to get a clue. The worst thing you can do for a kid with sensory issues is to put them in front of a TV. Just from the actions of this child and the reactions of the parent, I would term asap.
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lflick 06:08 PM 06-20-2013
When she picked him up she was very short and her eyes said a million words... she was NOT happy! I told her that I am not sending home out of frustration rather he needs something today that I can not offer.
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blandino 10:15 PM 06-20-2013
That was perfect to say !!! He needs one on one attention today, and no matter how hard you try - a daycare cannot provide that.
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Tags:spd, special needs children, symphysis pubis dysfunction, therapist
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