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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Threatening To Pull For Formal Pre-k
daycarediva 04:00 PM 11-04-2013
because a 3.5yo only knows a handful of letters and JUST learned to recognize his name?

Kid with moderate speech issues
moderate-severe discipline issues
ZERO social skills


Those are awesome priorities. I have worked VERY hard with this child, #1 getting him help for apraxia and coordinating therapists to come to MY home and doing therapy exercises with him MYSELF. #2 his behavior and social skills have come a long way with MY direct supervision and attention 50 hours a week for over a year.

I almost said "Your child will learn when he is ready to sit, listen and follow directions."

I see more and more of this! Push towards academics but young childhood and social skills/self help skills fall to the side. If she places him in the preschool she mentioned, they don't HAVE an academic program, it's prek in name only and is a center daycare.
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Cat Herder 04:08 PM 11-04-2013
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
If she places him in the preschool she mentioned, they don't HAVE an academic program, it's prek in name only and is a center daycare.
Geeze Louise, way to be a team player.

Don't you remember they sent a few "lead teachers" to night school for a month or two, paid for memberships to childcare unions, bought the required toys and posters so their State will tell parents they are a "Quality" program... If the State gets enough "quality programs" they get more Federal $$$$

We are supposed to "support quality initiatives" don't ya know....
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DaycareMom 04:35 PM 11-04-2013
That is so frustrating!!!
I can't stand when parents don't understand everything that you do for their children. You went way above and beyond!!!
She will probably ask you to care for her child after it doesn't work out at the "preschool".
Sorry you are going thru that. Good luck!
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Leanna 04:48 PM 11-04-2013
Oh you touched a nerve! Why do parents all of a sudden think their 3 or 4 year old isn't learning unless they are in a "preschool?" Why do they think a ratio of 1:18 is suddenly better than 1:6? Why do ABC's and 123's become the only thing worth a child knowing? Why do desperately needed social/emotional skills like problem solving, conflict resolution, taking turns, manners, listening while others are talking, etc. become non-important? UGH. I have a BS in early childhood and am technically more qualified than many of these "preschool teachers" but because I run a family child care with mixed-aged groups, child-focused emergent curriculum it is not appropriate for a 3/4 y.o?????!!!!
Ok. Sorry. Had to get that off my chest.
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melilley 05:47 PM 11-04-2013
Originally Posted by Leanna:
Oh you touched a nerve! Why do parents all of a sudden think their 3 or 4 year old isn't learning unless they are in a "preschool?" Why do they think a ratio of 1:18 is suddenly better than 1:6? Why do ABC's and 123's become the only thing worth a child knowing? Why do desperately needed social/emotional skills like problem solving, conflict resolution, taking turns, manners, listening while others are talking, etc. become non-important? UGH. I have a BS in early childhood and am technically more qualified than many of these "preschool teachers" but because I run a family child care with mixed-aged groups, child-focused emergent curriculum it is not appropriate for a 3/4 y.o?????!!!!
Ok. Sorry. Had to get that off my chest.

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Shell 05:56 PM 11-04-2013
Originally Posted by Leanna:
Oh you touched a nerve! Why do parents all of a sudden think their 3 or 4 year old isn't learning unless they are in a "preschool?" Why do they think a ratio of 1:18 is suddenly better than 1:6? Why do ABC's and 123's become the only thing worth a child knowing? Why do desperately needed social/emotional skills like problem solving, conflict resolution, taking turns, manners, listening while others are talking, etc. become non-important? UGH. I have a BS in early childhood and am technically more qualified than many of these "preschool teachers" but because I run a family child care with mixed-aged groups, child-focused emergent curriculum it is not appropriate for a 3/4 y.o?????!!!!
Ok. Sorry. Had to get that off my chest.
Couldn't agree with you more!!! I have a BS in early childhood, years and years teaching preschool thru kindergarten, and likely provide more of a structured and academic curriculum than most preschools around. I have worked in public and private preschools, and have seen first hand how little academic learning is actually taking place. However, I just lost a dcg to a preschool because mom said she was feeling pressure when people asked her what preschool her child attended
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TwinKristi 06:12 PM 11-04-2013
I'm actually about to start a thread about a similar issue I'm having, but said child is not even 21 mos, and it's not a threat because of me, it's just what she wants to do...
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JoseyJo 07:10 PM 11-04-2013
AND the recent post about the child being tied to her cot was at a "preschool"
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cheerfuldom 07:52 PM 11-04-2013
very frustrating especially for those that have a lot of education and are providing a lot of academics in their program anyway. I don't do worksheets and structured curriculum. People tried to make me feel bad about my oldest not knowing x y and z before starting kindergarten but guess what, she is doing GREAT. We worked on emotional maturity, independence, self help skills, cooperation and teamwork plus providing a healthy, safe and calm environment. She has a good foundation and within weeks was writing all her letters, writing basic words, counting to 100, doing basic math, reading sight words and soaking up information like a little sponge and she is at the top of her class. far above some kids that have grown up in "preschool". I have two special needs kids here, one daycare and one of my own, and even though we added in therapy, we did not add in pressure to learn this or that. They are both doing well now that they are in specialized preK (which is an actual preK, not daycare) so again, I feel validated that I made the right choice to provide what kids really need. My 2.5 year old can not reliably name shapes or colors and cannot say her ABCs or count past 10. I am not worried about her at all. She is learning what is really important and I am sure she will be prepared well for school!
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Michelle 08:06 PM 11-04-2013
Originally Posted by JoseyJo:
AND the recent post about the child being tied to her cot was at a "preschool"


I just saw this!

I actually put my oldest son in "real" preschool (he's 20 now) and he did not learn a single thing except how to paint and sit on a little rug.
I really thought it would give him an edge.
My daughter did not go to preschool and she has a double major in chemical engineering and is pre-med.
I also heard at a baby shower that there was a study done that even kids that go to the most expensive educational preschool that does excel in academics, and then the child is put in the average public school... by 2nd grade the child will be at the same education level as most kids anyway.. I wish I would have asked the name of that study but it was a very busy party and I was helping the host.
well anyways, we all go through this and it is very frustrating and the parents learn very quickly that "real" preschool is not as great as they thought and I almost never except a child back after the parent does this.
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daycare 08:10 PM 11-04-2013
I live in an area where everyone has to have STATUS and participates in keeping up with the JONES'S. Drives me nuts, but many of my clients pull their kids for PRIVATE ACADEMY preschool.

Some come back because the kids can't handle how highly academic it is. Then I have parents tell me, oh the new academy teacher wanted to know what school they transferred from, they were impressed with how much they know and how well they speak. That next school year they are asking to enroll with me again. They realize how much their kid was learning here for 1/16th of the price. I do get to feel some happiness when I tell them NO when I can.................


UGH I feel for you..............I have had to just learn to expect it from certain clients..
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Familycare71 08:14 PM 11-04-2013
Ugh!! I agree- the pre-school craze is rediculous!
When my oldest went to kindergarten his teacher asked where he went to pre school. I explained what I do and that he stayed with me... She says: oh- so no pre-school and gave me a look!
My middle son did go to a formal pre-school three days a week when he was 4 just because I was worried about him jumping right into full day kind. They didnt teach him anything! He would have learned more "academics" with me!

I am not sure when it began that learning could only happen when a child is required to sit in a seat and do work sheets! It is very frustrating!!
I also focus on life skills here with academics sprinkled in
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Play Care 03:46 AM 11-05-2013
This is one of the reasons transporting to "real" preschool is one of my program highlights. It's a PITB, but I keep kids until K that way.
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daycarediva 05:01 AM 11-05-2013
Originally Posted by mrsmichelle:
Couldn't agree with you more!!! I have a BS in early childhood, years and years teaching preschool thru kindergarten, and likely provide more of a structured and academic curriculum than most preschools around. I have worked in public and private preschools, and have seen first hand how little academic learning is actually taking place. However, I just lost a dcg to a preschool because mom said she was feeling pressure when people asked her what preschool her child attended
I am working towards my BS, so I could have typed this! The "teachers" in prek are just a breathing body, no formal training required, just a high school diploma.

Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
very frustrating especially for those that have a lot of education and are providing a lot of academics in their program anyway. I don't do worksheets and structured curriculum. People tried to make me feel bad about my oldest not knowing x y and z before starting kindergarten but guess what, she is doing GREAT. We worked on emotional maturity, independence, self help skills, cooperation and teamwork plus providing a healthy, safe and calm environment. She has a good foundation and within weeks was writing all her letters, writing basic words, counting to 100, doing basic math, reading sight words and soaking up information like a little sponge and she is at the top of her class. far above some kids that have grown up in "preschool". I have two special needs kids here, one daycare and one of my own, and even though we added in therapy, we did not add in pressure to learn this or that. They are both doing well now that they are in specialized preK (which is an actual preK, not daycare) so again, I feel validated that I made the right choice to provide what kids really need. My 2.5 year old can not reliably name shapes or colors and cannot say her ABCs or count past 10. I am not worried about her at all. She is learning what is really important and I am sure she will be prepared well for school!
I couldn't agree more!! My 3 older kids were all in daycare (special needs ds went to special needs prek) and all were well prepared for k. I think the common core is scaring parents into this mindset, imo.


Originally Posted by Play Care:
This is one of the reasons transporting to "real" preschool is one of my program highlights. It's a PITB, but I keep kids until K that way.
I have a 'real' prek around the corner from me. 5 yo Ds attended there 2 days/week to get him used to separating from me and the teacher being someone other than Mom. They taught colors and shapes in the 4's room with dittos. Im sure my clients would beg to come back if they started there. (It's almost double my rates as well and has numerous serious open violations like safety issues and ratio.)
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daycarediva 05:04 AM 11-05-2013
Wanted to add: I didn't send my son there knowing about the violations! They just had an inspection and I have a child enrolled who has family that works there and his Mom told me.

I think this morning I will just remind this Mom of my notice policy and leave it at that. Obviously, start advertising again. FT client, too and although the kid is a challenge I really like him and will miss him. ugh.
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Play Care 05:37 AM 11-05-2013
Originally Posted by :
I have a 'real' prek around the corner from me. 5 yo Ds attended there 2 days/week to get him used to separating from me and the teacher being someone other than Mom. They taught colors and shapes in the 4's room with dittos. Im sure my clients would beg to come back if they started there. (It's almost double my rates as well and has numerous serious open violations like safety issues and ratio.)
That's too bad! I LOVE the preschool I transport to - I wouldn't offer the service otherwise. I used to knock myself out with my preschool program - but the reality is that parents are looking for that "school" setting - one that is NOT attached to a day care - this is to my benefit as I don't lose my kids to glorified day care centers...
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Moppetland 05:51 AM 11-05-2013
It is disheartening to care for a child in your home since birth, then when they become preschool age, the parents all of a sudden don't think they'll learn anything from your home. A classic sign of "oh, she's just a babysitter".

Well, my DCKs all learned from my program. I don't even have a preschool program set up at all. They learned through play, and when they went to kindergarten, the teachers asked where they went to preschool. They knew everything from recognizing their alphabets, recognizing and counting the numbers 1 -20, recognizing their shapes and colors. They even recognized and spelled their first names. On top of that, they knew when to say "thank you", "please", "sorry" and "you're welcome". They knew how to pour their own milk and help themselves to a second helping of food. They knew how to stand in line patiently to wait their turn. I can go on, but you get the point.

The DCPs proudly tell them about my home child care, and people were calling me through them to get their child into my child care.

But it's a trend now to get children into these state and government ran preschools. Until parents realize that learning comes when their child is ready, they will always feel that they are doing something wrong if they don't put their child in an institutionalized school by 3-years-old.
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cheerfuldom 06:52 AM 11-05-2013
Originally Posted by Moppetland:
It is disheartening to care for a child in your home since birth, then when they become preschool age, the parents all of a sudden don't think they'll learn anything from your home. A classic sign of "oh, she's just a babysitter".

Well, my DCKs all learned from my program. I don't even have a preschool program set up at all. They learned through play, and when they went to kindergarten, the teachers asked where they went to preschool. They knew everything from recognizing their alphabets, recognizing and counting the numbers 1 -20, recognizing their shapes and colors. They even recognized and spelled their first names. On top of that, they knew when to say "thank you", "please", "sorry" and "you're welcome". They knew how to pour their own milk and help themselves to a second helping of food. They knew how to stand in line patiently to wait their turn. I can go on, but you get the point.

The DCPs proudly tell them about my home child care, and people were calling me through them to get their child into my child care.

But it's a trend now to get children into these state and government ran preschools. Until parents realize that learning comes when their child is ready, they will always feel that they are doing something wrong if they don't put their child in an institutionalized school by 3-years-old.
there are more and more parents wanting preschool at 2 years old and a few that want preschool prep at one years old. its crazy.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 06:53 AM 11-05-2013
All I can say is ... stupid. Sorry, I know that isn't nice. Send me to time out.
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daycarediva 07:05 AM 11-05-2013
Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist:
All I can say is ... stupid. Sorry, I know that isn't nice. Send me to time out.


Mom said it again today. She is touring there on her lunch break. I just reminded her of my termination policy, asked if they would allow his therapist to come in or if she would have to handle that, and if it's considered special needs friendly.

The 'big issue' is that she really refuses to acknowledge that her son has a speech delay that qualifies him as special needs. He is behind in several other areas as well and the pediatrician even noted 'gross motor delays' on his physical but NOTHING is being done about that. I am just the lady who keeps bringing up reality-that she doesn't want to hear.
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julie 02:56 PM 11-05-2013
Regardless of issue, I do not let anyone "threaten" to pull from my daycare. They make that statement or even infer it, then that is their first day of notice. Sorry. I don't play that and call their bluff immediately. I will not be held hostage by wondering when or if my clients will stay or go simply because I am not doing something they want or doing it differently.

"That's great DCM! I wish you well. Obviously I will miss DCB, but you as the parent know best as to what the next step should be! I will take this as your first day of paid notice as per our contract. Really excited for this next step for you and DCB. All the best! My waitlist will be delighted! " Smile, shut door.
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TwinKristi 03:13 PM 11-05-2013
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
there are more and more parents wanting preschool at 2 years old and a few that want preschool prep at one years old. its crazy.
Yep! I'm losing a child at 22 months to go to "preschool"?!? It was bad enough losing the 3.5yr old I had here PT, but now an infant? For preschool? Basically my DCM is choosing to a) pay more b) provide food & c) lower the quality of his care and provider:child ratio to put him in what's essentially a daycare center at the preschool. He'll be there from 7:15 to 4:30!

OP- I hope she changes her mind but maybe it's best to just let her go!
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Blackcat31 03:31 PM 11-05-2013
Originally Posted by julie:
Regardless of issue, I do not let anyone "threaten" to pull from my daycare. They make that statement or even infer it, then that is their first day of notice. Sorry. I don't play that and call their bluff immediately. I will not be held hostage by wondering when or if my clients will stay or go simply because I am not doing something they want or doing it differently.

"That's great DCM! I wish you well. Obviously I will miss DCB, but you as the parent know best as to what the next step should be! I will take this as your first day of paid notice as per our contract. Really excited for this next step for you and DCB. All the best! My waitlist will be delighted! " Smile, shut door.
This is exactly how I feel too. I don't really care if parents want to enroll their infant in knitting classes... whatever... it's their child.

I just require my policies for enrollment AND withdrawing to be followed.

I also want to say that I also have a degree in Early Childhood and the single most important thing I learned while in college was that kids learn best through play.

Structured academics shoved down their throats at birth does NOT produce smarter kids. IMHO, it produces kids with anxiety issues, self-esteem issues and a whole bunch of other "side-effects" that parents, teachers, politicians and others refuse to acknowledge.

Can I drive that point home with parents? Nope. They are going to do what they feel is best for their child (or themselves) every.single.time so I let it be.


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daycarediva 04:11 PM 11-05-2013
She hated it!

She said the "teachers" were rude when she asked questions* and there was no academic program. They won't do his ST or OT. She said for now, he is staying here.

She did NOT like my response. I pretty much told her that if she was unhappy with his care, she should continue to look elsewhere. She stuttered over 'not being unhappy' but 'wanting more of an education'. I just told her that if she found something she liked, to let me know because I was conducting interviews.

* walking through my program during lunch asking questions and I would be rude, too.

I got a call for a 19mo PT. Interview is tomorrow, and with my enhanced rates for younger kids and PT, it is the same amount of income for less days.
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daycare 07:54 PM 11-05-2013
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
She hated it!

She said the "teachers" were rude when she asked questions* and there was no academic program. They won't do his ST or OT. She said for now, he is staying here.

She did NOT like my response. I pretty much told her that if she was unhappy with his care, she should continue to look elsewhere. She stuttered over 'not being unhappy' but 'wanting more of an education'. I just told her that if she found something she liked, to let me know because I was conducting interviews.

* walking through my program during lunch asking questions and I would be rude, too.

I got a call for a 19mo PT. Interview is tomorrow, and with my enhanced rates for younger kids and PT, it is the same amount of income for less days.
that is awesome news.... I had a parent pull this on me a few months ago. I wish I would have gotten the advise from others on here. Instead I dug myself a hole. Like saying.

Please keep in mind that the new school that you are looking at will follow the school district calendar closing on all holidays, 2.5 weeks for christams, spring break, winter break, summer and so on. I will not be able to guarantee a spot for you even though you plan to keep your other child here.

Long story short, I don't feel good about the family even though they stayed with me. I feel that obviously they must not be happy with my program, or they would not be looking at other places. I teach preschool and even teach a state approved program.

I wish I would have done what you are doing now by helping them to move on.....

I am counting the days....................which will be a long time from now
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Shell 04:38 AM 11-06-2013
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
She hated it!

She said the "teachers" were rude when she asked questions* and there was no academic program. They won't do his ST or OT. She said for now, he is staying here.

She did NOT like my response. I pretty much told her that if she was unhappy with his care, she should continue to look elsewhere. She stuttered over 'not being unhappy' but 'wanting more of an education'. I just told her that if she found something she liked, to let me know because I was conducting interviews.

* walking through my program during lunch asking questions and I would be rude, too.

I got a call for a 19mo PT. Interview is tomorrow, and with my enhanced rates for younger kids and PT, it is the same amount of income for less days.
Well done!
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Familycare71 06:32 AM 11-06-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
This is exactly how I feel too. I don't really care if parents want to enroll their infant in knitting classes... whatever... it's their child.

I just require my policies for enrollment AND withdrawing to be followed.

I also want to say that I also have a degree in Early Childhood and the single most important thing I learned while in college was that kids learn best through play.

Structured academics shoved down their throats at birth does NOT produce smarter kids. IMHO, it produces kids with anxiety issues, self-esteem issues and a whole bunch of other "side-effects" that parents, teachers, politicians and others refuse to acknowledge.

Can I drive that point home with parents? Nope. They are going to do what they feel is best for their child (or themselves) every.single.time so I let it be.


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Familycare71 06:33 AM 11-06-2013
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
She hated it!

She said the "teachers" were rude when she asked questions* and there was no academic program. They won't do his ST or OT. She said for now, he is staying here.

She did NOT like my response. I pretty much told her that if she was unhappy with his care, she should continue to look elsewhere. She stuttered over 'not being unhappy' but 'wanting more of an education'. I just told her that if she found something she liked, to let me know because I was conducting interviews.

* walking through my program during lunch asking questions and I would be rude, too.

I got a call for a 19mo PT. Interview is tomorrow, and with my enhanced rates for younger kids and PT, it is the same amount of income for less days.
. Good for you!!!
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EntropyControlSpecialist 06:41 AM 11-06-2013
I hope the interview goes well so this family can go bye-bye. Ridiculous.
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Jack Sprat 12:58 PM 11-07-2013
Originally Posted by Leanna:
Oh you touched a nerve! Why do parents all of a sudden think their 3 or 4 year old isn't learning unless they are in a "preschool?" Why do they think a ratio of 1:18 is suddenly better than 1:6? Why do ABC's and 123's become the only thing worth a child knowing? Why do desperately needed social/emotional skills like problem solving, conflict resolution, taking turns, manners, listening while others are talking, etc. become non-important? UGH. I have a BS in early childhood and am technically more qualified than many of these "preschool teachers" but because I run a family child care with mixed-aged groups, child-focused emergent curriculum it is not appropriate for a 3/4 y.o?????!!!!
Ok. Sorry. Had to get that off my chest.

YES!!!!
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My3cents 01:05 PM 11-08-2013
Why PK? To give the kids a start that might not have been able to have that start because of lazy parenting or absent parenting.

I recently took a class on how PK is effecting Daycare providers and what Kindergarten Teachers want students to know coming into K and the school system.

They want them to know Social Skills, Self help skills, be able to separate from the parents, use the bathroom.

They don't want them to be able to recite ABC's, 123's. That is what they are going to teach them.

They want them to be able to sit for a few minutes so that they can listen and learn. Be able to regulate their own bodies.

So why do I do a preschool program? I don't expect my kids to know every letter or number, but I feel I am introducing and they are hearing words from just talk and having more to talk about. Kids are like sponges and the group I have now want to learn, the parents teach them at home and they love that they are learning here. We also learn through play. I would say that play is where they learn the most here but offering PK is a bonus.

When the kids go to be screened at school. Teachers are not looking that they know everything asked of them. They are looking for the kids that are high off the spectrum of the norm. Kids that need more because they are highly smarter and then kids that are not ready for even Kindergarten or are going to need more help then that average spectrum of kids.

Keeping up with the Jones as far as school goes has always been around. It is normal and good for a parent to want what they feel is best for their child.

As providers it feels like we are losing kids to the school system and government. We are. It won't be long before babies are in the school system and daycare is a thing of the past. It's a money thing. $$$ in making providers have a college education, $$$ in making taxes go up to provide this service. Parents feel that they are getting a better end of it, and if your on assistance as a lifer you sure are. If not get ready to pay out your nose for this unnecessary increase in your taxes for the rest of your life-

My3Cents~
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