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  #1  
Old 06-19-2012, 01:40 PM
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Unhappy Had To Call CPS For The First Time Today :(

Talk about stressful! We already have A LOT going on right now (building a 2nd daycare/my new home in the front yard, had to close for a week for water damage/mold from a water leak 2 weeks ago, I miscarried 2 weeks ago and had to have surgery, etc) so for this to happen it's like "Really?! What's next?!"

We have an almost 2yr old girl whose dad dropped her off this morning and said, "She has diaper rash. There's cream in her bag." and just left. She's NEVER had diaper rash before, so it's weird for him to say that. When we changed her it doesn't look like any rash we've ever seen before. It's almost like a yeast infection, but in her diaper area around her front and back holes, if you know what I mean. There's a slight bruising coloration to the raised red areas too.

We didn't know what to do so we called CPS and the lady said it doesn't look like any diaper rash she's seen. So she told us after her parents pick her up they are gonna call and say that someone anonymously called them with concerns. Well considering we're the only ones that change her diaper, obviously we're the ones that called! And we didn't say a word to them when they picked her up (which they advised), so we're so scared what's going to happen tomorrow when they drop her off.

Anyone ever have to deal with this? One of my workers, who wasn't here today, and who I really wish would just quit so I don't have to fire, is the one who opens tomorrow and will be here when the parent drops off. Should I warn her or do you think it's better that she doesn't know?

We don't want the parents to be mad at us, but we don't want the girl to be getting hurt at home, ya know? Her parents are only 20yrs old and I hate to use this phrase, but they are kind of "white trash" so I can see them being the type that will blow up and get really mad, or they might just blow it off and not even care. Ugh this sucks!
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Old 06-19-2012, 01:47 PM
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First off, I wanted to say I'm so sorry about your miscarriage!

As far as today, I think you did the right thing. I don't really have any advice except to say that you should definitely tell the worker tomorrow so she can be aware of the situation. Also, document everything and make sure the worker tomorrow takes note of anything "off." Good luck and keep us updated!
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Old 06-19-2012, 02:19 PM
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I'm so sorry about everything going on right now. It never rains but it pours. I'm especially sorry for your loss (((HUGS)) I have a dcm who miscarried over a month ago and is still suffering complications.

It definitely sounds like you made the right call in calling CPS. My honest opinion is that you should do everything in your power to be there when the parents drop off tomorrow. It's a serious situation and you, not an assistant, and especially not an assistant of dubious qualities, should be the one handling it. 100%. Plus, you KNOW the parents are likely to claim that she got the problem from daycare. YOU should be there whenever this child is, for that reason alone.
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Old 06-19-2012, 02:20 PM
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hugs to you on the miscarriage.....


You do need to advise the employee of the situation and tell her to have them call you if they need anything further. Also do not be surprise if you never see that child again. Most families will not return their child to a place that has called CPS to came and investigate.
  #5  
Old 06-19-2012, 03:00 PM
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Well about an hour and a half after the parents picked up the child, the little girl's grandma (who is her mom's mom) called and asked if anything was wrong today. I said I didn't know what she was talking about. She said that her daughter is bawling her eyes out because she's scared that CPS is going to take her daughter away from her because someone anonymously called them to complain. I told her that our consultant was here (she was actually here yesterday but they don't know that) and saw the rash during a diaper change and was concerned, so she called them. Is that bad I lied? Our consultant told us it was okay, and if it keeps the parents from getting mad at us and taking her away, I didn't see why not to do it.
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:08 PM
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Well about an hour and a half after the parents picked up the child, the little girl's grandma (who is her mom's mom) called and asked if anything was wrong today. I said I didn't know what she was talking about. She said that her daughter is bawling her eyes out because she's scared that CPS is going to take her daughter away from her because someone anonymously called them to complain. I told her that our consultant was here (she was actually here yesterday but they don't know that) and saw the rash during a diaper change and was concerned, so she called them. Is that bad I lied? Our consultant told us it was okay, and if it keeps the parents from getting mad at us and taking her away, I didn't see why not to do it.
I know that we all can agree to disagree, but I would never lie to anyone. Not sure if the law is the same in your state, but as a child care provider, I am a mandated reporter and ALL of the parents know this. If I suspect child abuse of any kind, I am required by LAW to report it. I am here to protect the child first and foremost.

I might tell the parents the truth that you had to call because the your consultant was there and you had to cover your butt by reporting it. I am sure if your consultant did see it and you didn't report it, you might have been in some trouble yourself.

Sorry to make you feel bad, but I don't think it was ok for you to lie to them. In the future, you need to let the parents know of your duty to report anything that is suspect to child abuse to CPS.

I am really sorry you are going through all of this................
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:16 PM
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So sorry to hear of your miscarriage (((hugs))). As others have said, you did the right thing by calling CPS. Think about it another way -- what if you handn't reported it and it turns out that this child is being abused? I know it's not an easy decision to involve CPS, but it sounds like you had some very sound reasons for reporting.
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:20 PM
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(Registered, just can't log in for some reason)OP, I am very proud of you for making the call.* If the family does find out, I would tell them that it was just in the best interest of the child.* If the "rash" is nothing, then the family will be fine.* If it is something else, well, it's good that they may be able to get services to preserve the safety and well being of the child.* I know that personally, I couldn't live with myself knowing that I could have done something to save a child, but didn't.*
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Old 06-19-2012, 04:25 PM
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You should not have posted this confidential information on a public forum. You had better hope that the parents do not come across this site.....and YES, it has happened here before.

Calling CPS was the right thing to do.

BUT, LYING about who called (and if I was the consultant I would be LIVID with you for blaming her...these "white trash" people as you refer to them just might retaliate) was ABSOLUTELY, WITHOUT A DOUBT, WRONG!!!

You lied so as not to lose a paying client. If the roles were reversed and the parent was lying to you, you certainly would not appreciate it.

Shame on you.
  #10  
Old 06-19-2012, 05:11 PM
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You did the right thing reporting it. You didn't have to lie about who made the report, but I can understand feeling nervous being put on the spot.

The most important thing is the child's safety, and you ensured that she would be looked at. Good for you
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Old 06-19-2012, 05:16 PM
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(Registered, just can't log in for some reason)OP, I am very proud of you for making the call.* If the family does find out, I would tell them that it was just in the best interest of the child.* If the "rash" is nothing, then the family will be fine.* If it is something else, well, it's good that they may be able to get services to preserve the safety and well being of the child.* I know that personally, I couldn't live with myself knowing that I could have done something to save a child, but didn't.*
I 100% agree.
  #12  
Old 06-19-2012, 05:17 PM
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I am sorry to say that I don't think you should have called. Children can and do get yeast rashes especially after antibiotic use. My daughter had a yeast rash which we treated with over the counter medication. What you are describing does sound like a yeast rash and needs treatment. But I am not sure why cps has to be involved. I would first call the parent and ask them to bring the child to the dr to get advice. Unless there is a pattern of neglect or obvious abuse cps should not be called and disrupt the child's home life. If the rash wasn't being treated or the parents ignored your request to bring the child to the dr then that would be grounds for cps.

not sure what you achieved by lying about it, the truth always comes out in the end.
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Old 06-19-2012, 06:16 PM
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(Registered, just can't log in for some reason)OP, I am very proud of you for making the call.* If the family does find out, I would tell them that it was just in the best interest of the child.* If the "rash" is nothing, then the family will be fine.* If it is something else, well, it's good that they may be able to get services to preserve the safety and well being of the child.* I know that personally, I couldn't live with myself knowing that I could have done something to save a child, but didn't.*


Don't know why I'm having trouble quoting correctly, but I completely agree.

In case it was missed, the OP did say that there appeared to be some bruise-like discoloration in addition to the raised red area and other symptoms. I think this is probably what raised some flags for her.

I think it's better to be safe than sorry when it comes to the welfare of a child. I'd rather make the call and be wrong than NOT make the call be wrong.
  #14  
Old 06-19-2012, 06:19 PM
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You should not have posted this confidential information on a public forum. You had better hope that the parents do not come across this site.....and YES, it has happened here before.
I agree with Crystal here - you should remove your post ASAP.

Please contact Michael or an Admin.

I feel sorry for this child who is innocent in the whole matter.
  #15  
Old 06-19-2012, 07:22 PM
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I agree with Crystal here - you should remove your post ASAP.

Please contact Michael or an Admin.

I feel sorry for this child who is innocent in the whole matter.
i understand what both of you are saying, but she did not use names? SHe quoted a situation that occurred. I personally would not have posted this on here, but without stating names, i don't see that she has really done anything wrong....
  #16  
Old 06-19-2012, 09:52 PM
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Shame on you.
Geesh, Was this really necessary?

OP, cleary you are under a lot of stress and were unprepared for this experience. You didn't use the family's name, but you were perhaps a bit specific. Personally, I don't feel that you are under any obligation to tell the parent that you reported. If (and hopefully you never will be) in this situation again, you will be better prepared.

Honestly, you have nothing to be ashamed of. You did the best you knew how to do in the moment and stepped up for a child.
  #17  
Old 06-20-2012, 02:47 AM
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I am sorry to say that I don't think you should have called. Children can and do get yeast rashes especially after antibiotic use. My daughter had a yeast rash which we treated with over the counter medication. What you are describing does sound like a yeast rash and needs treatment. But I am not sure why cps has to be involved. I would first call the parent and ask them to bring the child to the dr to get advice. Unless there is a pattern of neglect or obvious abuse cps should not be called and disrupt the child's home life. If the rash wasn't being treated or the parents ignored your request to bring the child to the dr then that would be grounds for cps.

not sure what you achieved by lying about it, the truth always comes out in the end.
I absolutely agree. CPS is very serious and a pattern or strong concern of abuse is needed. You couldn't have asked Dad about the rash at pickup? Gotten a doctors note? How long has this child been in care? This families life is turned upside down now because you called about a diaper rash that you didn't even ask any questions about. Im sorry, but that is wrong and I hope this family survives the hardships to come because of this phone call.

I've said it before here: ppl are quick to jump on the CPS wagon without making sure that they understand all the ramifications of making that call unwarranted.

Eta: I am sorry for your losses and hardships, OP. I know that making that call couldn't have been easy and I am sorry you felt you had to do it. That's hard. I hope things work out for everyone in the end. I also agree that I would want to be there to greet this girl today when she arrives.
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Old 06-20-2012, 05:02 AM
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(((hugs))) So sorry for your loss. I think you did the right thing in calling. I learned through a training that it is not up to us to decide if it's abuse or not we need to call if something gives us cause to seriously wonder. I'm sorry for the family if it truly is a case of diaper rash, but you need to err on the side of the child. ~Joy
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Old 06-20-2012, 05:40 AM
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(((hugs))) So sorry for your loss. I think you did the right thing in calling. I learned through a training that it is not up to us to decide if it's abuse or not we need to call if something gives us cause to seriously wonder. I'm sorry for the family if it truly is a case of diaper rash, but you need to err on the side of the child. ~Joy
You don't think that the first step would be asking the parents about it before calling with allegations of abuse? Requesting a doctors note? It may well be there is a reasonable explanation but the opportunity to explain was not offered.
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Old 06-20-2012, 05:43 AM
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I am so very sorry you are going through this. Not only with cps report but from some of the harsh replies on here.

I agree that you made the right call. And agree that you should have told the truth to the parents. But when we are put in a situation like this we sometimes panic and aren't quite sure what to say.

Most of us come on here for support and advice. Not to get judged or have harshness from others.

So even though most of us think you should have told the truth, I'm sure it will be a lesson learned.

(((HUGS)))
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Old 06-20-2012, 05:50 AM
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Did you guys who said she should not have called miss the part about where OP said there was a bruising coloration around the front and back privates? Bruising around those areas, combined with an all of a sudden rash that more than one person in the childcare business has not seen before warrents a call to CPS.

OP I am so sorry that you are going through all of this all at once. I can only imagine how your body's hormones are adjusting to what you had to go through with the miscarriage, and then with the additional stress of everything else, coupled with this problem with DCG. You did the right thing, and I hope no one makes you feel guilty about it. If the parents have nothing to hide, they should be thankful that they chose a provider who cares enough to make that difficult call on behalf of their child.

Maybe you should not have lied, but I completely understand why you did it and I don't judge you or think you are a bad person. Maybe if you said you called they would not come back, and something worse could happen to the child. CPS will not take a child away from a mother for a simple yeast infection or a diaper rash- but if they do find signs of sexual abuse, then you may have saved that child's life, and the future quality of her life.

You did the right thing. It was hard, and you did it! You should feel good about that!
  #22  
Old 06-20-2012, 05:52 AM
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You don't think that the first step would be asking the parents about it before calling with allegations of abuse? Requesting a doctors note? It may well be there is a reasonable explanation but the opportunity to explain was not offered.
What if it wasn't a diaper rash, but a clear hand-shaped bruise on the child's upper arm or back or rear end? Would you wait to call CPS and talk to the parents first? Or would you call immediately? We are mandated reporters--we are supposed to call CPS for even suspicions of abuse. That doesn't mean a clear pattern--abuse doesn't have to have a pattern to be wrong. ONCE is wrong.

And especially in the case of something like this, you don't even want to THINK that your delay in calling might mean it might happen again. I've never seen or heard of a diaper rash that looked bruised and was as localized as the OP described. A bleeding rash is one thing, those can happen pretty suddenly sometimes, but bruised? Not so much. Bruises require trauma. And if something happened that might have been traumatic to that area (say, an older child falling on something) then the father REALLY should have offered up an explanation instead of "she has a rash, there's cream" and zooming out asap.
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Old 06-20-2012, 06:02 AM
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I've never seen or heard of a diaper rash that looked bruised and was as localized as the OP described. A bleeding rash is one thing, those can happen pretty suddenly sometimes, but bruised? Not so much. Bruises require trauma. And if something happened that might have been traumatic to that area (say, an older child falling on something) then the father REALLY should have offered up an explanation instead of "she has a rash, there's cream" and zooming out asap.
This was my thought too. And another though is that the parents only saw the diaper rash and not the bruising.

I personally slipped on a bicycle pedal while racing down a hill as an older child - it was a boys bike and I fell hard on the bar. I'm sure I wasn't too pretty down there and there must have been bruising.

It could have happened innocently but in this case something sounds just not right.

The provider is mandated to report if she suspects foul play. She did what she was supposed to.

I just don't want her to get into any legal trouble by posting this on a public forum. People can put 2 and 2 together very well these days.
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Old 06-20-2012, 06:03 AM
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I just mean that I think we take calling CPS very lightly here. This is the second time in as many weeks that I have heard calling over diaper rash in as many weeks.

A doctor is a mandated reporter too, if you required that the child be looked at.

My son got a blue tinged bum from those blue jean pampers once. But bruising around the privates would indeed be reason to call. My apologies.

Perhaps it was the right thing to do. I don't know this family. I just think that asking a few questions is merited before turn this families life upside down. If they are innocent and it was just a yeast rash then this family will be put through he'll for no reason. Yes, it might be abuse I don't know.

And I don't know the American system. I know here in Canada CAS is paid based on families in care so it is in their best interest to make it hard for families to exit their grasp once in it, even if they are innocent of the charges.
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Old 06-20-2012, 06:21 AM
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OP-You did the right thing!! This needs to be checked out!! Its better to be safe than sorry.

Crystal, shame should be on YOU!! If a child had centralized bruising on their privates and you didnt make the call, you'd be in violation of being a mandatory reporter! The parents could make the call and blame you!! Its a part of the twisted world we live in!
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Old 06-20-2012, 06:26 AM
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You should not have posted this confidential information on a public forum. You had better hope that the parents do not come across this site.....and YES, it has happened here before.

Calling CPS was the right thing to do.

BUT, LYING about who called (and if I was the consultant I would be LIVID with you for blaming her...these "white trash" people as you refer to them just might retaliate) was ABSOLUTELY, WITHOUT A DOUBT, WRONG!!!

You lied so as not to lose a paying client. If the roles were reversed and the parent was lying to you, you certainly would not appreciate it.

Shame on you.
Crystal......I agree with what you said but seriously, say what you mean but don't say it mean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jen View Post
Geesh, Was this really necessary?

OP, cleary you are under a lot of stress and were unprepared for this experience. You didn't use the family's name, but you were perhaps a bit specific. Personally, I don't feel that you are under any obligation to tell the parent that you reported. If (and hopefully you never will be) in this situation again, you will be better prepared.

Honestly, you have nothing to be ashamed of. You did the best you knew how to do in the moment and stepped up for a child.
We can only do what we are trained to do and in light of the posts we see here, there is hardly evidence of any type of good quality training in regards to mandated reporting going on in any area... I am surprised by some of the conversations/posts/threads we have had on this forum in that regard.

Definitely shows the lack of training and knowledge each state provides for it's child care providers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnneCordelia View Post
I just mean that I think we take calling CPS very lightly here. This is the second time in as many weeks that I have heard calling over diaper rash in as many weeks.

A doctor is a mandated reporter too, if you required that the child be looked at.
My son got a blue tinged bum from those blue jean pampers once. But bruising around the privates would indeed be reason to call. My apologies.

Perhaps it was the right thing to do. I don't know this family. I just think that asking a few questions is merited before turn this families life upside down. If they are innocent and it was just a yeast rash then this family will be put through he'll for no reason. Yes, it might be abuse I don't know.

And I don't know the American system. I know here in Canada CAS is paid based on families in care so it is in their best interest to make it hard for families to exit their grasp once in it, even if they are innocent of the charges.
Anne~ Good point! Requiring the child to see a doctor could have been one option.

I know in my state we are required to give enrolling parents written notice telling them that if we suspect ANY type of abuse or neglect, that we are mandated by law to report it.

The notice gives the names and numbers of who we will call and also tells the parents to call if they suspect us (the provider) of anything similar.

We and the parent are required to sign and date it, give one copy to the parent and keep the other in the child's file.
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Old 06-20-2012, 06:45 AM
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Coming from a place of not knowing regulations on the subject--

I do NOT have a problem with her lying about reporting. If there's a law that says we have to disclose that information then it's a stupid law, IMO. If we are reporting suspected or known abuse, then it seems to me that there is a strong risk of retaliation against us if it's known that we are the ones that reported. Especially in the cases where the abuse is physical, I would be seriously concerned that the abuser would retaliate violently against me for reporting, not to mention false allegations that the abuse occurred at daycare.

She didn't lie to law enforcement or in court--she lied to the family to protect herself. And to protect the child.
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Old 06-20-2012, 06:48 AM
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She didn't lie to law enforcement or in court--she lied to the family to protect herself. And to protect the child.
.......and WITH permission from the person she said "probably" called.

I see nothing wrong with the lying part of this scenario. She did it for the right reasons.

I know lying is not morally ok but at the same time, protecting myself, my family, my staff, the other children and families in care as well as the child in question is MORE important than a lie about who told....that is just rubble in the big picture of things.
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Old 06-20-2012, 06:51 AM
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Just to clarify, CPS cannot pull the child out of the home. They do not have the authority to do such a thing.

And just because someone makes an allegation doesn't mean someone is going to lose their child.

CPS will investigate first, decide if the child is in any danger, and then have to petition a judge *with evidence* to even have a chance of removal being granted (usually called a CHIPS hearing). In most states that then gives them 72 hours to investigate further, at which point they need to have even more evidence to provide the court to petition them to order the child staying in protective custody beyond that 72 hour hearing. Without a mountain of evidence, most kids pulled return home if they were ever pulled at all.

I've taken fosters who DID have a mountain of evidence in support of allegations of their abuse and neglect who were returned home because there wasn't more. I've hotlined things where there was undeniable and irrefutable evidence for (including straight out admissions!) and the allegation is still ruled unsubstantiated. So while calling is noble, and our duty, and may relieve feelings of personal responsibility to a situation, in the end it rarely amounts to much.

If this is indeed just a rash a simple doctors visit will clear everything up and CPS will never bother the family again.



Not to judge, this is more to get you thinking OP, but I too wonder why a doctors visit wasn't just requested in the first place. If they refused, then I'd have called. If they left care at that point then I'd have called. But if I knew the family well and cared about the kiddo I'd have tended to give them the benefit of the doubt. If anything it's a very good sign that the child hasn't had any issues with her diaper area to date. The word "weird" was thrown in there as if it was a bad thing, and I don't see that to be the case. Usually that's the sign of a very well cared for child. Dad feeling uncomfortable about the situation and not really wanting to discuss it would also be viewed as extremely normal. I don't know of any father on the face of the planet that would jump at the chance to discuss details regarding the state of their daughters genitals. If they did I'd be far more suspicious of THAT.


The white trash bit totally offends me but I don't see the point in getting into that....I just hope you'll reconsider using the phrase in the future.



Red, raised and localized around bottom exits is TEXTBOOK yeast infection. It's also typically extremely itchy, which could have led to the child scratching and rubbing herself with hand or other objects to the point of scratching, tearing and bruising.
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Old 06-20-2012, 06:51 AM
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In PA, I know for a fact (after having been through multiple trainings provided by the state) that it is not our job to determine whether it was abuse or not. It is the job of CYF/Social Services. If you even suspect abuse or neglect then you are mandated to call and report.

However, all of the parents I deal with in therapy and childcare know that I and staff are mandated reporters and if we see a bruise or anything that resembles abuse we will call social services.

I can understand how the OP must have felt if this is the first time it has happened to her, she has not received appropriate training, and she does not have a supervisor to have supervisions with. It is overwhelming to have to be in that position unprepared. However, to deceive the parent is to lose their trust anyway, you know? So telling the truth is always the best thing.

I don't think that calling should "be taken lightly" but look at it like this. If there really is no abuse or neglect then the family's life is not "torn upside down." But if there is, shouldn't the authorities handle it?
  #31  
Old 06-20-2012, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by DevorahNA View Post
I am sorry to say that I don't think you should have called. Children can and do get yeast rashes especially after antibiotic use. My daughter had a yeast rash which we treated with over the counter medication. What you are describing does sound like a yeast rash and needs treatment. But I am not sure why cps has to be involved. I would first call the parent and ask them to bring the child to the dr to get advice. Unless there is a pattern of neglect or obvious abuse cps should not be called and disrupt the child's home life. If the rash wasn't being treated or the parents ignored your request to bring the child to the dr then that would be grounds for cps.

not sure what you achieved by lying about it, the truth always comes out in the end.
If a provider suspects, she should call. We are not doctors, health examiners, social workers. If this provider had a serious concern, she was well within her duty to call and get further advice.
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Old 06-20-2012, 07:19 AM
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I don't think that calling should "be taken lightly" but look at it like this. If there really is no abuse or neglect then the family's life is not "torn upside down." But if there is, shouldn't the authorities handle it?
Common sense should rule.

You don't call for a bruise on a toddlers shin. You don't call for bumps on a toddler's head who's just learning to walk. You don't call about a yeast infection with classic and very textbook symptoms. If you don't know what a yeast infection is, or the symptoms of one you defer to someone that does (ie - a pediatrician).

CPS "ladies" aren't qualified to determine such a thing. They are not doctors. It's why if there is an allegation they are required to bring a kiddo to a pediatrician. Skin conditions can manifest in a million different ways as we are all different. It seriously irks me to hear the "CPS lady" said it was like no rash she's ever seen. That matters why?? That doesn't mean anything other than she's obviously not very educated in skin rashes. Any derm doc will tell you, especially in kids, a yeast rash can look 1000 different ways in 1000 different kids.

The exam the little girl will most likely endure as a result of all of this will be pretty traumatic. As will the entire experience for the parents. So although the family will will not necessarily be literally ripped apart, don't at all assume it won't affect them all on many levels and for a very VERY long time.
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Old 06-20-2012, 07:30 AM
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If a provider suspects, she should call. We are not doctors, health examiners, social workers. If this provider had a serious concern, she was well within her duty to call and get further advice.

Within reason.

If someone's dog is pooping in my yard I'm going to go talk to them and ask them to stop, not immediately call the FBI.


If she was unsure if the rash was yeast she could have (and should have IMHO) had them confirm with a qualified professional.

A CPS lady isn't a qualified professional in regards to determining what is yeast and what isn't.




Add to that the provider stating the family is "white trash" only serves to hurt her credibility and tarnish any moral intent being claimed here. Those who have stated yikes if the family finds this posting are correct. If I were this family and saw this I would assume I was being unfairly targeted as the provider obviously has a prejudice against them or she'd have never said such a thing in the first place. Racial, cultural and socio-economical differences can in certain circumstances be considered, but not in that sort of context.

(edited to add, I hope the thread isn't removed for that reason, or at least is kept somewhere it can be accessed should the family ever need it to use in their defense at some point)
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Old 06-20-2012, 07:35 AM
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I had a friend who ran a child care and a child was removed from her childcare by the authorities. It was for something that had been reported (the childcare provider knew nothing about the situation) and the authorities removed the child straight from the provider. She was so upset as she didn't know what was going on but that is where the authorities tracked the child down that day.

Here's the thing though-the parents received the child back after awhile and I think they were found innocent. They are the happiest family and the child is so sweet. One persons interpertation was totally different from the states though.

So remember even if you didn't report and someone else did, you never know where the state will show up to take the child.
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Old 06-20-2012, 07:50 AM
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.......and WITH permission from the person she said "probably" called.

I see nothing wrong with the lying part of this scenario. She did it for the right reasons.

I know lying is not morally ok but at the same time, protecting myself, my family, my staff, the other children and families in care as well as the child in question is MORE important than a lie about who told....that is just rubble in the big picture of things.
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Old 06-20-2012, 09:24 AM
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OP-You did the right thing!! This needs to be checked out!! Its better to be safe than sorry.

Crystal, shame should be on YOU!! If a child had centralized bruising on their privates and you didnt make the call, you'd be in violation of being a mandatory reporter! The parents could make the call and blame you!! Its a part of the twisted world we live in!
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Old 06-20-2012, 09:26 AM
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Within reason.

If someone's dog is pooping in my yard I'm going to go talk to them and ask them to stop, not immediately call the FBI.


If she was unsure if the rash was yeast she could have (and should have IMHO) had them confirm with a qualified professional.

A CPS lady isn't a qualified professional in regards to determining what is yeast and what isn't.




Add to that the provider stating the family is "white trash" only serves to hurt her credibility and tarnish any moral intent being claimed here. Those who have stated yikes if the family finds this posting are correct. If I were this family and saw this I would assume I was being unfairly targeted as the provider obviously has a prejudice against them or she'd have never said such a thing in the first place. Racial, cultural and socio-economical differences can in certain circumstances be considered, but not in that sort of context.

(edited to add, I hope the thread isn't removed for that reason, or at least is kept somewhere it can be accessed should the family ever need it to use in their defense at some point)
I've screen shot this entire thread for that very reason.
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Old 06-20-2012, 09:33 AM
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I think that the provider had the best intentions with calling cps, and maybe there is more to the story that we do not know about, but with the information given I still feel that cps should not have been called at this time.

First of all this sounds like a classic yeast rash (see photo on this page http://www.babycenter.com/0_yeast-diaper-rash_10913.bc) Which nessesitated a trip to the doctor not a call to cps. The comment about the bruising seemed to be an afterthought in the post, not the main reason for the report. In fact bruising coloration could be in line with a yeast rash (red bruising?) Of course if there was bruising on the genitals I assume all of us would be calling cps!

calling cps is a HUGE responsibility and not to be taken lightly. Cps was called on a relative on mine due to a toddlers broken leg. Let me tell you the family was turned UPSIDE DOWN for the investigation (its still happening) and the parents do not have custody of the child for the remainder of the investigation. I understand the reason for the investigation but you need to think twice before ruining a happy family. A diaper rash does not even come close to something that should be reported unless it goes on for a long time and the parents are not addressing it.

Frankly, I assume we are all doing our best as providers, but lets educate ourselves about what needs to be reported and what constitutes abuse or neglect. I took an online course such as this one http://www.childabuseworkshop.com/ to be a certified teacher. Maybe it would be beneficial for everyone to learn about the signs of abuse.
  #39  
Old 06-20-2012, 09:36 AM
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Hmmm. I wouldn't call for a rash, but I would call for bruising. I haven't ever seen what appeared to be bruising with a case of a yeast rash. I am not sure if I would have hotlined, but chances are if I suspected more than a diaper rash...yes.

I had an instance that if I hadn't witnessed the injury, I would have hotlined. Child shows up with bruising of various shades on the insides of his forearms and all up & down his back. Pretty cut & dried. However, this 2.5yo had much older sibs, and they were all here that day. What were they doing? Taking turns dragging him on the floors...having a blast. But he was this skinny child and each vertebrae had a bruise or three, his hips, as well as from the sib's thumbs on his arms. The 12yo told me it was even more fun doing this up and down the carpeted basements step at home. DCB looked like he got a big old fashioned whooping while being held down. The parents hadn't known about his back (because he didn't have a bath the night before). Jeez.
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Old 06-20-2012, 10:00 AM
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op, I support you and your decision. Who cares what the others think, because if they were in your shoes all those negative nellies would have done the same thing, they just don't want to openly admit it. And yes, I would have lied too because then the parents would still bring the child back to me so I can keep a closer eye on them.
  #41  
Old 06-20-2012, 10:23 AM
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Talk about stressful! We already have A LOT going on right now (building a 2nd daycare/my new home in the front yard, had to close for a week for water damage/mold from a water leak 2 weeks ago, I miscarried 2 weeks ago and had to have surgery, etc) so for this to happen it's like "Really?! What's next?!"

We have an almost 2yr old girl whose dad dropped her off this morning and said, "She has diaper rash. There's cream in her bag." and just left. She's NEVER had diaper rash before, so it's weird for him to say that. When we changed her it doesn't look like any rash we've ever seen before. It's almost like a yeast infection, but in her diaper area around her front and back holes, if you know what I mean. There's a slight bruising coloration to the raised red areas too.

We didn't know what to do so we called CPS and the lady said it doesn't look like any diaper rash she's seen. So she told us after her parents pick her up they are gonna call and say that someone anonymously called them with concerns. Well considering we're the only ones that change her diaper, obviously we're the ones that called! And we didn't say a word to them when they picked her up (which they advised), so we're so scared what's going to happen tomorrow when they drop her off.

Anyone ever have to deal with this? One of my workers, who wasn't here today, and who I really wish would just quit so I don't have to fire, is the one who opens tomorrow and will be here when the parent drops off. Should I warn her or do you think it's better that she doesn't know?

We don't want the parents to be mad at us, but we don't want the girl to be getting hurt at home, ya know? Her parents are only 20yrs old and I hate to use this phrase, but they are kind of "white trash" so I can see them being the type that will blow up and get really mad, or they might just blow it off and not even care. Ugh this sucks!
I logged out for privacy. I feel that when you posted this to the forum you should have logged out to protect yourself. I would ask Michael to change this for you if possible.

I am glad you brought this to the board- its the place to come when you don't know. Just remember for some subjects to log out.

I can see how this just crept up on you unexpectedly- you had little time to process and training was not there for this type of problem or clear training.

Crystal- I think you came off harsh to this OP- she was looking for help, and put it out there the way she knew how- maybe not the way you would have- Op- stated she lacked experience with this situation. Telling the OP- Shame on you is as bad as the OP using "white trash" to describe her parents. Sometimes we all lack "words" to get the point across of what we are trying to say or describe. I am saying I did not like either of these terms but I understood them as how both of you wanted to get your point across- I feel for the OP because I think she lacks experience and was just trying to sort all of this out fast.

I feel OP you did the right thing, you were concerned and you called. I also feel that what is the point of being able to make these calls anonymously if your put in a position to lie. I don't feel that you lied to keep the income. I feel you lied to protect yourself, and the retaliation that could occur from a parent being ticked off from accusations.

Ideally- for a provider. Asking for a Dr.s written note of what is going on before returning to daycare AND....... being able to phone the DR. and give a heads up if you suspect- If the person does not bring the child to the DR then a call to CPS is made. Having this in your Contract would be ideal- Having this as protocol would be ideal. I think the only protocol I have found is that when you suspect you are mandated to make that call.

I think it takes a lot to make a call like that and for Most of us providers we are not going to make that call unless we feel there is a need. No one wants to hurt a family or child from making false accusations. Instinct told you to call and you did what you thought was in the best interest.

I too feel that under the circumstances that you should be working when that parent comes in again. You are the Director I take it and in charge and I also feel everyone should be called into a meeting to know what is going on and what to do in the event of an emergency situation ( the parent goes ballistic)

If you are thinking of not keeping someone then why are you? Tons of people looking for work, instead of complaining about someone that is not working out you should be retraining or moving the worker along. Never leave someone you have issues with in charge of that much responsibility.

OP I feel your heart is in the right place but your experience is still a work in progress. Learn from this and move on- You are in a position that you need to know what to do in these types of situations- have a plan, and until it happens to you we don't think much about it.

Please give an update when you can. I hope that little one is ok and it turns out to be just a very bad rash.
  #42  
Old 06-20-2012, 10:27 AM
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No, I would not have especially the part where she lied.
  #43  
Old 06-20-2012, 10:30 AM
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I've screen shot this entire thread for that very reason.


What benefit does a screen shot do for you if you are not the OP or the parent?


....anyways, threads from the forum will NOT be deleted or removed. They can, however be locked if Admin feels they are getting out of hand.
  #44  
Old 06-20-2012, 10:32 AM
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Christina,
please do not be hurt by what that other person said on this forum. MOSt of us understand that you came here for support and you need some support. Please do not let those comments run you off. We all do the best we can and most of us make mistakes, hell all of us make mistakes (whether we admit it or not). You did the right thing. I have dealt with people that you were describing. (People like the Whites from West Virginia.) I live 2 doors down from a huge family of mad rednecks that live off the sytem and stay high and drunk. I know they would just asoon cuss me as look in my direction. They cussed my DCP out this am. Some people you just know not to mess with! They can be really bad.
I hope you can get the support and advice you are looking for here.
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Old 06-20-2012, 10:35 AM
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OP... you are the only one that saw the bruising and rash, so don't feel bad about what others say.... except for the fact that a families private information should not be shared on this public forum. Next time pm someone that you are close to.
***hugs***
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Old 06-20-2012, 10:35 AM
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OP-You did the right thing!! This needs to be checked out!! Its better to be safe than sorry.

Crystal, shame should be on YOU!! If a child had centralized bruising on their privates and you didnt make the call, you'd be in violation of being a mandatory reporter! The parents could make the call and blame you!! Its a part of the twisted world we live in!
In Crystal's defense, she never said the OP shouldn't have called. She actually said "Calling CPS was the right thing to do."

The "shame on you" was in reference to lying about who called so OP wouldn't lose a client.
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Old 06-20-2012, 10:52 AM
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What benefit does a screen shot do for you if you are not the OP or the parent?


....anyways, threads from the forum will NOT be deleted or removed. They can, however be locked if Admin feels they are getting out of hand.
It would not be hard to track down the family.

Internet board posts are used as evidence everyday to help/hinder court cases and/or issues like CPS, traffic accidents, drug trafficking etc.
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Old 06-20-2012, 10:57 AM
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It would not be hard to track down the family.

Internet board posts are used as evidence everyday to help/hinder court cases and/or issues like CPS, traffic accidents, drug trafficking etc.
I know that..... I was just wondering what purpose saving this thread as a screen shot does for YOU....unless you are the OP or someone directly involved in this case...kwim?

I wholeheartedly agree with the idea of being wise about posting confidential and/or controversial stuff on an open and public forum.
  #49  
Old 06-20-2012, 11:16 AM
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Cristina, do you have an update? We are all concerned for the little girl. I am concerned about YOU being ok too.
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Old 06-20-2012, 11:19 AM
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I am not very internet saavy Blackcat, what is a screen shot?
  #51  
Old 06-20-2012, 11:22 AM
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I am not very internet saavy Blackcat, what is a screen shot?
That's ok....I have spent an enormous amount of time googling things I have no idea about.....technology confuses me all the time

Anyways, a screen shot is an image of what is on screen: a photograph or printout showing what appears on a computer screen
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Old 06-20-2012, 11:35 AM
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That's ok....I have spent an enormous amount of time googling things I have no idea about.....technology confuses me all the time

Anyways, a screen shot is an image of what is on screen: a photograph or printout showing what appears on a computer screen
you hit either control A, selecting everything on the screen and then control P or print screen and you have a sceen shot that you can print out
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Old 06-20-2012, 11:40 AM
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why would someone do a screen shot sounds like someone causing trouble here.
  #54  
Old 06-20-2012, 12:02 PM
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What if it wasn't a diaper rash, but a clear hand-shaped bruise on the child's upper arm or back or rear end? Would you wait to call CPS and talk to the parents first? Or would you call immediately? We are mandated reporters--we are supposed to call CPS for even suspicions of abuse. That doesn't mean a clear pattern--abuse doesn't have to have a pattern to be wrong. ONCE is wrong.

And especially in the case of something like this, you don't even want to THINK that your delay in calling might mean it might happen again. I've never seen or heard of a diaper rash that looked bruised and was as localized as the OP described. A bleeding rash is one thing, those can happen pretty suddenly sometimes, but bruised? Not so much. Bruises require trauma. And if something happened that might have been traumatic to that area (say, an older child falling on something) then the father REALLY should have offered up an explanation instead of "she has a rash, there's cream" and zooming out asap.
I absolutely agree.

As for CPS turning their lives upside down ... that will only happen if abuse is occurring. Otherwise, a simple investigation will occur.
  #55  
Old 06-20-2012, 12:18 PM
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First, let me say, I know I was harsh. Maybe I should have been a little "kinder" in my choice of words, but I meant every word I said.

I find it highly unprofessional to call a family "white trash", and to say that due to the family being "white trash" she was concerned about them rataliating and THEN saying her consultant is the one that reported it...aside from that being a lie, if the OP TRULY felt she may be in danger if the parents found out she reported, then WHY ON EARTH would she put someone else in the exact situation she is afraid of facing herself??? I took it that the OP told the consultant AFTER she had already told the grandma that that may have been who called. Also, I wouldn't have told Grandma squat....she is not the client, the parent's are. I would have simply told her "I am not at liberty to discuss this with you"

I also find it highly unprofessional to talk about an employee in the manner she did, and to be willing to allow this employee to possibly face the wrath of an angry parent without her having any knowledge of what happened is frightening to me.

My first piece of advice was that this information should not be on a public forum. It is confidential information, and trust me, if the parents do happen to read it, they have A LOT of ammo to use against the provider. It has happened here before, it will happen again. Is it likely? Probably not. But, I strongly believe that you shouldn't post anything that has even the slightest possibility of being found by someone you are speaking negatively about....especially a child care family.

OP....I know it was a hard call, and I am sorry it is a situation you have to deal with. I said I would have called CPS as well (perhaps I would not, depends on my own assessment of the situation) because I trust you knew the severity of the rash and bruising and wouldn't take making that call lightly. I do think you did the right thing, as you are the one who has seen it.
  #56  
Old 06-20-2012, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist View Post
I absolutely agree.

As for CPS turning their lives upside down ... that will only happen if abuse is occurring. Otherwise, a simple investigation will occur.
These investigations are not always simple. They often require doctor examinations, pulling medical records, intrusive questioning of all family members and potential loss of income for time taken off work, as CPS only works 8-4:30. It is potentially more if the family feels they must hire a lawyer to help protect their rights, as many innocents do.
  #57  
Old 06-20-2012, 01:05 PM
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So, are you saying that the CPS worker came to your daycare and personally examined the child's diaper area in your presence before the parents were notified, before the child saw a doctor, without the supervision or presence of any medical professional whatsoever, and determined that there was, indeed, cause for concern? Is that CPS procedure?

As a parent, I can tell you this. If I found out that one of my daughter's bare diaper areas had been examined by a stranger without my permission, to investigate alleged wrongdoing or abuse, without the notification and supervision of a doctor or nurse trained in this matter, I would be livid. LIVID.

I completely understand that when it comes to abuse, it's "better safe than sorry" but this whole thing really sounds fishy.
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Old 06-20-2012, 01:38 PM
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So, are you saying that the CPS worker came to your daycare and personally examined the child's diaper area in your presence before the parents were notified, before the child saw a doctor, without the supervision or presence of any medical professional whatsoever, and determined that there was, indeed, cause for concern? Is that CPS procedure?

As a parent, I can tell you this. If I found out that one of my daughter's bare diaper areas had been examined by a stranger without my permission, to investigate alleged wrongdoing or abuse, without the notification and supervision of a doctor or nurse trained in this matter, I would be livid. LIVID.

I completely understand that when it comes to abuse, it's "better safe than sorry" but this whole thing really sounds fishy.
Here in Canada that's against our Charter of Rights and Freedoms and grounds for civil law suit. Unless a CPS worker has reasonable grounds to believe the child is at immediate and great risk to their health or safety they cannot detain that child without the parents informed consent. Examining a child without permission is detaining.

I am not saying these things to be a pain in the OPs butt or to be insensitive but we need to understand our obligations to protect the basic rights of these children in our charge, which can include requiring CPS and like organizations to do their investigations through the parents. Our responsibility is to report, but not necessarily to allow access to the child without the parents permission unless the agent comes with a police escort or a warrant, here in Ontario Canada.
  #59  
Old 06-20-2012, 03:27 PM
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SHAME ON THOSE OF YOU GIVING HER FLACK!! It really concerns me that a very sudden rash especially in a child thats never had one WITH bruising seems ok to some of you. It is not your job to determine abuse, just report it. CPS has forensic psychologists and doctors, I would say they are much more equipped to handle the determination of abuse. And yes, CPS can take children. They are an entity that was given that power. My husband reported abuse and met CPS at 3 pm, kids were gone at 8 pm. I do not agree they are the be all and end all to make happy families but it seems something has to be done about SUSPECTED RAPE IN A 2 YEAR OLD GIRL. This wasnt merely a spanking.
  #60  
Old 06-20-2012, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
First, let me say, I know I was harsh. Maybe I should have been a little "kinder" in my choice of words, but I meant every word I said.

I find it highly unprofessional to call a family "white trash", and to say that due to the family being "white trash" she was concerned about them rataliating and THEN saying her consultant is the one that reported it...aside from that being a lie, if the OP TRULY felt she may be in danger if the parents found out she reported, then WHY ON EARTH would she put someone else in the exact situation she is afraid of facing herself??? I took it that the OP told the consultant AFTER she had already told the grandma that that may have been who called. Also, I wouldn't have told Grandma squat....she is not the client, the parent's are. I would have simply told her "I am not at liberty to discuss this with you"I agree with this too, never tell Gram anything, deal with the parents. I also question, why wouldn't you be there to deal with this issue and leave someone that your thinking of firing to take this on, not knowing. I took it that OP vented here and really did not have time to process- or the experience and experiences.

I also find it highly unprofessional to talk about an employee in the manner she did, and to be willing to allow this employee to possibly face the wrath of an angry parent without her having any knowledge of what happened is frightening to me.

My first piece of advice was that this information should not be on a public forum. It is confidential information, and trust me, if the parents do happen to read it, they have A LOT of ammo to use against the provider. It has happened here before, it will happen again. Is it likely? Probably not. But, I strongly believe that you shouldn't post anything that has even the slightest possibility of being found by someone you are speaking negatively about....especially a child care family.I agree but you should still come to the forum and be able to post,vent and just do it logged out and with out using names and personal information. This OP clearly needed our help ladies- and men.

OP....I know it was a hard call, and I am sorry it is a situation you have to deal with. I said I would have called CPS as well (perhaps I would not, depends on my own assessment of the situation) because I trust you knew the severity of the rash and bruising and wouldn't take making that call lightly. I do think you did the right thing, as you are the one who has seen it.
Crystal- thank you for polishing your post- because I agree with this, and hopefully others will be able to relate or find help here-
  #61  
Old 06-20-2012, 04:48 PM
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If a two year old was raped there would be a heck of a lot more "evidence" than just a rash and a bit of bruising. OP didn't mention anything about the toddlers mental state being off and THAT would have been the most obvious indication. She certainly wouldn't have been acting normal.

If the CPS official the OP says saw the girl really suspected such a thing as toddler RAPE she wouldn't have left the girl in care and just told the OP, oh, weird rash, hotline it. Action would have been taken immediately to get the courts and law enforcement involved and the girl would have been pulled without her being allowed to return home.

Obviously it wasn't that bad if that wasn't the case.


I'm straight shocked anyone would throw out such a word without having ANY direct involvement with the situation. I'm sorry but that's disgusting. Nothing short of a witch hunt.


No, CPS does not have the authority to remove a child on their own accord. This is not the movies, or an hour long fictional dramatic tv show. They don't just show up and haul children off. Even in the most severe cases there are procedures and it absolutely has to be court ordered by a judge.
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Old 06-20-2012, 04:50 PM
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Some say she shouldn't have called?! There was a couple little girls who came to the daycare I work at. The owner noticed something a little out of the ordinary than with most girls that age, but not being trained, not knowing what to look for, not knowing what constituted a call to CPS, she didn't make the call. She wasn't THAT suspicious. Later found out the dad had been sexually abusing them (the mom and Grandma knew it, but didn't do anything). We found out when the oldest girl told us "daddy does this". Children went through counseling but are still struggeling with the emtoional scars even after a few years. The owner was chewed out BIG time by CPS and warned she could be in HUGE trouble for not reporting. She had mentioned it to the mom, and she didn't seem to take it serious. Owner was told by CPS to never mention it to the parent in a suspected case like that. They can always act like they have no idea what you're talking about, come up with some "explanation", etc. and then knowing the daycare suspects it, they can call CPS on the daycare to cover themeslves, saying the daycare was abusing the child.

As for having a doctor look at it first before calling, or waiting for the doctor to call instead of a MANDATED reporter: A mom brought son to doctor one day after picking him up from daycare. The doctor saw he had a dirty diaper (3 yr old boy) and told her she should call CPS on us for neglect since we didn't change him! (apparently 3 yr olds can't dirty their diapers on way to the doctor, or while waiting in the waiting room?!) Thankfully his teacher had written down when she changed him that day, so nothing could be used against us. In my experience, the doctor's first advice is, "blame the daycare". Besides that, a doctor may have medical training and all that, but they may not know if something is sexual abuse or not, if they have never seen what it looks like for a sexual abuse victim.
If someone is trying to keep themselves out of a trouble, the first thing most people do is try to place blame on someone else, even if they know they are guilty.

The OP did the right thing. She is a MANDATED reporter. If you suspect anything, you HAVE to call. You don't just pass the buck onto someone else (like a doctor, and just hope they do their job and report it if it needs to be).

The OP was looking for advice an encouragement. NOT a bunch of critcism and rude remarks. OP, you followed the law and did what you thought was best for this child, so just know you did do the right thing! Even if it turns out to be nothing, it was in best interest of the child to call. And you kept yourself from being in a LOT of trouble, plus a guilty conscience, had it turned out the child was being abused.
  #63  
Old 06-20-2012, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PolarCare View Post
So, are you saying that the CPS worker came to your daycare and personally examined the child's diaper area in your presence before the parents were notified, before the child saw a doctor, without the supervision or presence of any medical professional whatsoever, and determined that there was, indeed, cause for concern? Is that CPS procedure?

As a parent, I can tell you this. If I found out that one of my daughter's bare diaper areas had been examined by a stranger without my permission, to investigate alleged wrongdoing or abuse, without the notification and supervision of a doctor or nurse trained in this matter, I would be livid. LIVID.

I completely understand that when it comes to abuse, it's "better safe than sorry" but this whole thing really sounds fishy.

Completely agree.
  #64  
Old 06-20-2012, 04:57 PM
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And yes, CPS can take children. They are an entity that was given that power.

[color="Red"]yes they can- it has to be pretty bad to do this. They can petition the court for an emergency situation. Judges can be called in the middle of the night for this type of thing. Again it has to be severe- There is a name for this and I forget what it is called.
  #65  
Old 06-20-2012, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by My3cents View Post
And yes, CPS can take children. They are an entity that was given that power.

[color="Red"]yes they can- it has to be pretty bad to do this. They can petition the court for an emergency situation. Judges can be called in the middle of the night for this type of thing. Again it has to be severe- There is a name for this and I forget what it is called.
You're wrong with the first statement, correct with the second.

CPS cannot take kids on their own accord, they can only be court ordered to.

If the CPS investigator in the scenario put forth in this thread thought the child was in any real danger she couldn't have picked the kiddo up and put her in her car. There has to be a petition filed and a judge has to order CPS to do such a thing. No matter what the situation, no matter what time of day, it has to be ordered. The severity of the situation is moot.

If a CPS hauls away a child without that judge signing off on it the action would be considered kidnapping.
  #66  
Old 06-20-2012, 05:34 PM
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I have a DCM who works for CPS. I talked to her this afternoon about wether or not she can remove children from the home witout a court order. She said that she absolutley can, but must have a police officer with her and the case must be severe enough to do so without the court order.

So, PP, yes they can and do have the authority to do so, but it must be extreme enough to warrant removing the children without appearing before a judge.

It may different for each state, but in California, they do have that authority.
  #67  
Old 06-20-2012, 05:34 PM
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Huh thats really strange because I just lived the CPS taking of children a few months ago . Court was a few days later. They most certainly do and will if they feel the children are in immediate danger. They had the police come but that was just as backup. There was no court order
  #68  
Old 06-20-2012, 05:35 PM
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why are we talking/debating about what CPS can and can not do. The OP did the right thing by calling CPS. If she thought she needed too call then she needed to call if CPS thought the call was an over reaction then they would have said so. Why are we debating and talking about what CPS did or did not do; and why are we debating what they can and can not do. Why are we soo far off topic.
  #69  
Old 06-20-2012, 05:35 PM
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CPS Detention procedures from OP's home state:

The Indiana Department of Child Services (DCS) will remove a child from his or her parent, guardian, or custodian if:
1. A reasonable person would believe that the child’s physical or mental condition is seriously impaired or seriously endangered due to injury by the act or omission of the child's parent, guardian or custodian. or
2. The child's physical or mental condition is seriously impaired or seriously endangered as a result of the inability, refusal, or neglect of the child's parent, guardian or custodian to supply the child with necessary food, clothing, shelter, medical care, education or supervision; and
3. The coercive intervention of the court is needed (taken) to protect the child.
The Family Case Manager (FCM) will obtain Supervisory approval prior to removing any child from their parent, guardian, or custodian.
DCS will obtain a written order from the court prior to removing a child, unless emergency removal is necessary to protect the immediate health and safety of the child. Emergency removal may be necessary if all of the following factors are present:
1. It appears that the child's physical or mental condition is seriously impaired or seriously endangered if the child is not immediately taken into custody;
2. There is not a reasonable opportunity to obtain an order of the court; and
3. Consideration for the safety of the child precludes the immediate use of family services to prevent removal of the child.
DCS will not remove a child without a Law Enforcement Agency (LEA) present, unless:
1. Emergency removal is necessary; and
2. LEA has been contacted, and considering the immediate concern for the safety or well-being of the child, is unable to be present during the removal.
If DCS removes a child without a court order and/or LEA present, DCS will document the reasons why such measures were necessary.
DCS will secure a detention hearing within 48 hours of detention of the child
  #70  
Old 06-20-2012, 05:45 PM
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Okay, moderator here--this has gotten WAY off topic, guys. If you want to continue the discussion of what CPS has the power to do, someone please start a new thread for it, okay?
  #71  
Old 06-20-2012, 05:52 PM
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To put it back into perspective...I've been doing foster care for 6 years now. Not decades by a long shot but I've had a lot of kids come and go and I know my way around the process (at least in my state) quite well at this point.

Some of what the kids that ended up in my care have endured would make a person unfamiliar with the world of child protection vomit on the spot, some on the other hand were "eh, maybe this warrants further investigation" cases.

NONE, upon their initial discovery, were simply advised by CPS to have a run of the mill citizen merely hotline the situation and take a wait and see stance.

NONE would have been allowed to return home.

NONE, even the worst of the worst, were pulled via a single CPS investigator without a court order despite some being beyond gruesome and very much emergent situations.


To repeat - if this CPS investigator actually thought this toddler was *raped* she would have NEVER been allowed to return home tonight. EVEN IF this investigator had the authority to immediately pull the child, EVEN IF they didn't I suppose is irrelevant - the fact that nothing was immediately done is telling enough.

If there was any inkling of concern of something that serious action would have been taken immediately.
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