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  #1  
Old 08-26-2016, 03:08 PM
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Default Play Pens..Lets Discuss

How do you all fee about play pens?

I have a 23 month old that is not safe when I leave the room. He either hits others, kicks or runs and trips when I need to diaper a child or help with potty trainers, etc. I am worried about safety to all.

Today He just touched the other kids head with his pointer finger just to make them mad. It was a terrible day. The kids were all just crazy. I got out a play pen, aka baby jail, and popped it up in the main room. When I had to leave the room, I told him he was going to be in here until I retuned because he wasn't being nice to his friends when I leave the room.

When the kiddos started to leave one by one, I continued to put him in it, explains why, and taking him out when I returned. I think he actually got it. When there was only a couple kids left, I asked him if he was going to be nice when I left the room, he nodded. He actually was nice and did not run.

Have any of you used one for safety reasons?
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Old 08-26-2016, 03:24 PM
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They are not approved for that use, here.
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  #3  
Old 08-26-2016, 03:32 PM
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Regulations vary by state so this is something you should speak to your licensing office about.
I know in CA we can not implement any device in order to restrain children. No bouncers or walkers, and no play pens that are in use when a child is awake. From my understanding, the only grey area is a very young infant. Placing an almost 2 year old in a play pen anytime other than nap time would be a violation.
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Old 08-26-2016, 04:39 PM
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I think its awesome that it worked and I would do that my own child BUT yea...licensing would not approve I am guessing.

I would make him come with you every time instead. Not as much fun for you lol, but hopefully same end result.
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Old 08-26-2016, 04:58 PM
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But even though play pens are considered restraining and therefore not allowed, I believe you can use a multi section gate to section off a safe area for youngers. The long gates with like 6-8 panels that you could extend from wall to wall and create a baby zone...? I think that's allowed here in CA. Haven't checked.
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Old 08-26-2016, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
But even though play pens are considered restraining and therefore not allowed, I believe you can use a multi section gate to section off a safe area for youngers. The long gates with like 6-8 panels that you could extend from wall to wall and create a baby zone...? I think that's allowed here in CA. Haven't checked.
I have a child like this, and he grabs the paneled gate and shakes it down--multiple panels means it's not anchored anywhere. I stick to this kid like glue. I have had to put a baby gate up in our reading nook, remove everything inside (he throws things at us), and pop him into it when I need to attend to another child . . . otherwise, he'll attack whichever other children are in the room. I don't keep him in for long, and I hate doing it, but he drew blood a couple of days ago and I'm not getting any responses to my advertisements, so there's no replacement on the horizon.
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Old 08-26-2016, 10:47 PM
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But even though play pens are considered restraining and therefore not allowed, I believe you can use a multi section gate to section off a safe area for youngers. The long gates with like 6-8 panels that you could extend from wall to wall and create a baby zone...? I think that's allowed here in CA. Haven't checked.
Yes I have used them and know other providers who do as well. I have never experienced or heard of an issue with them.
That might be a good option for OP.
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Old 08-26-2016, 11:02 PM
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Meh, I personally believe that a child this age is too old for a playpen and I would worry about the risk of the child climbing out and falling. I would definitely make this child my shadow and work on his behavior....consistently.

I am only allowed to use a restraint device(please don't read this wrong) if a child is a awake not sleeping. I cannot use a swing, bouncer, or seat for a sleeping child and this would definitely be inappropriate for a child of this age.

I do understand that this issue is difficult to manage and you will have to make the decision based on your ability, your group, and the child's ability to stop these behaviors.

I make this statement regarding the fact that there needs to be some expectations of this child's behavior. Are the parents working to discipline and have consequences for this child's behavior? Are they open to coming up with a consistent way for you and them to curb and teach good behaviors over bad ones? Children all go through this and it's the basics of teaching right from wrong and how to get along with others.
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Old 08-26-2016, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostMyMarbles View Post
How do you all fee about play pens?

I have a 23 month old that is not safe when I leave the room. He either hits others, kicks or runs and trips when I need to diaper a child or help with potty trainers, etc. I am worried about safety to all.

Today He just touched the other kids head with his pointer finger just to make them mad. It was a terrible day. The kids were all just crazy. I got out a play pen, aka baby jail, and popped it up in the main room. When I had to leave the room, I told him he was going to be in here until I retuned because he wasn't being nice to his friends when I leave the room.

When the kiddos started to leave one by one, I continued to put him in it, explains why, and taking him out when I returned. I think he actually got it. When there was only a couple kids left, I asked him if he was going to be nice when I left the room, he nodded. He actually was nice and did not run.

Have any of you used one for safety reasons?

We have a 18 month dcb who is a biter, he bit a 22 month old 4 times yesterday, and we've started putting him in the playpen whenever he bites someone for about 5 minutes or so. Mom is in treatment for another 3 weeks, so terming isn't an option right now.
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  #10  
Old 08-27-2016, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Missy Poo View Post
We have a 18 month dcb who is a biter, he bit a 22 month old 4 times yesterday, and we've started putting him in the playpen whenever he bites someone for about 5 minutes or so. Mom is in treatment for another 3 weeks, so terming isn't an option right now.
If I were the parent of the 22 month old, I'd pull my child from your care and probably report you for failing to supervise and keep my child safe.

4 times in one day is absolutely unacceptable!

After the first time, the biter should have been separated from the others and allowed access under direct supervision only.

I completely understand the difficulties biting adds to this job but 4 times in one day and the same child is just not acceptable or understandable at all...

I dont mean to sound harsh but this needs to be addressed and solved before you end up with not having any clients left.

It shouldn't matter if the parent is in treatment or not, it's your responsibility to provide a safe environment for ALL the children in your care.
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Old 08-27-2016, 09:15 AM
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We do not use playpens unless we are outside with the babies and they don't have shoes. We do have high chairs and occasionally after redirection and "taking a minute" a child will go in the high chair for a minute or 2 while we (teacher) sit by them.

They are never in things of the like without direct supervision
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  #12  
Old 08-27-2016, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
If I were the parent of the 22 month old, I'd pull my child from your care and probably report you for failing to supervise and keep my child safe.

4 times in one day is absolutely unacceptable!

After the first time, the biter should have been separated from the others and allowed access under direct supervision only.

I completely understand the difficulties biting adds to this job but 4 times in one day and the same child is just not acceptable or understandable at all...

I dont mean to sound harsh but this needs to be addressed and solved before you end up with not having any clients left.

It shouldn't matter if the parent is in treatment or not, it's your responsibility to provide a safe environment for ALL the children in your care.
I was thinking the same thing when I read her statement earlier... Someone would have been called by the 3rd time to pick up the child up & I would term quickly if the guardian/parent wasn't on board with finding a solution - my reputation is worth much more than a few weeks of lost pay. I have only had one biter in 16 years & they were termed.
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Old 08-27-2016, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
If I were the parent of the 22 month old, I'd pull my child from your care and probably report you for failing to supervise and keep my child safe.

4 times in one day is absolutely unacceptable!

After the first time, the biter should have been separated from the others and allowed access under direct supervision only.

I completely understand the difficulties biting adds to this job but 4 times in one day and the same child is just not acceptable or understandable at all...

I dont mean to sound harsh but this needs to be addressed and solved before you end up with not having any clients left.

It shouldn't matter if the parent is in treatment or not, it's your responsibility to provide a safe environment for ALL the children in your care.

First of all I think your more upset about it than his mother was. I expected the mom to be mad, but she just shrugged it off and said it happens. The mom of the biter welcomes any suggestions to get him to stop. She is taking parenting classes and she mentioned there was some behavior managing groups for kids she is signing him up for.

But as far as the 4x goes, it seemed to come in pairs. The first time was at 8:50, then again at around 9:20 ish. The next two was in the afternoon 2:05 and maybe 2:15. It was then we decided we had to isolate him by putting him in the playpen. So far it has worked, he only tried to bite a 5 yr old today. The day he bit the 22 month old was the worst day in the 2 weeks he's been here. We've caught him more than he's bitten.

Our director has been looking up ways to stop him. I think it has just become a habit to this little guy. One of his first days with us, I was sitting on the floor and he started running toward me arms open wide and a big smile on his face and he wrapped his arms around me and bit me on the shoulder ( who says vampires don't exist?). Hopefully, we can find a solution.
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Old 08-27-2016, 01:01 PM
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It would be awesome if we were all experts and everything we did worked. Guess it is trial and error. Lol

I heard back from my licensing consulate....she referred me to this and said I was doing the right thing.

400.1913 Discipline and child handling.
Rule 13. (1) The caregiver shall develop and have on file a written policy regarding the discipline of children.
(2) Developmentally appropriate positive methods of discipline which encourage self-control, self-direction,
self-esteem, and cooperation shall be used.
(3) Caregiving staff shall not do any of the following:
(a) Hit, spank, shake, bite, pinch, or inflict other forms of corporal punishment.
(b) Restrict a child’s movement by binding or tying him or her.
(c) Inflict mental or emotional stress, such as humiliating, shaming, threatening a child, or using deroga-
tory remarks.
(d) Deprive a child of meals, snacks, rest, or necessary toilet use.
(e) Confine a child in an enclosed area such as a closet, locked room, box, or similar cubicle.
(4) Non-severe and developmentally appropriate discipline or restraint may be used when reasonably neces- sary to prevent a child from harming himself or herself, or to prevent a child from harming other persons or property, or to allow a child to gain control of himself or herself excluding those forms of punishment prohibited by subrule (3) of this rule.
(5) This rule is not subject to the variance specified in R 400.1963.

He has always been a great little guy, then wam! Mom said he's been out of sorts at home and said she supports me 100%. Here's to hoping for a great week to come.

Sorry if I ruffled feathers. I was distracted by an illness in the family last week and I think he took advantage. Kids are smarter than we give them credit for. And the shadowing thing is great, however nature will call and he is notgoing with me..

Thanks for the advice, suggestions, and sympathy.
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  #15  
Old 08-27-2016, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Missy Poo View Post
First of all I think your more upset about it than his mother was. I expected the mom to be mad, but she just shrugged it off and said it happens. The mom of the biter welcomes any suggestions to get him to stop. She is taking parenting classes and she mentioned there was some behavior managing groups for kids she is signing him up for.

But as far as the 4x goes, it seemed to come in pairs. The first time was at 8:50, then again at around 9:20 ish. The next two was in the afternoon 2:05 and maybe 2:15. It was then we decided we had to isolate him by putting him in the playpen. So far it has worked, he only tried to bite a 5 yr old today. The day he bit the 22 month old was the worst day in the 2 weeks he's been here. We've caught him more than he's bitten.

Our director has been looking up ways to stop him. I think it has just become a habit to this little guy. One of his first days with us, I was sitting on the floor and he started running toward me arms open wide and a big smile on his face and he wrapped his arms around me and bit me on the shoulder ( who says vampires don't exist?). Hopefully, we can find a solution.
I'm not upset in the same manner his mother should be I'm upset that providers (center and home) feel they can simply brush this type of stuff of like it's no big deal.

That's sad and frightening at the same time and speaks volumes about the methods of supervision used.
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Old 08-27-2016, 01:33 PM
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I think the basis of childcare includes diving into why is the child biting and the responsibility of us providers to be able to have control of our charges as well being constructive in correcting the behavior.

Yes, biting can be 'normal' for some children developmentally but there is always a reason. I refuse to believe that it just happens. I personally agree with Blackcat that this is not normal as not every child does it and it is a behavior issue that needs to be controlled. If a child is hurting other children that are in my care, I would send the child home. Period.

The child in question is being allowed to do this or being given opportunities to bite. It's not cute. It's a problem. Of course dcm's will brush it off, while they are finding other care or reporting you behind your back.

Not to mention that a human bite, medically, is perceived as worse than a bite from an animal because there are many bad infections that can be spread, especially from a bite that breaks the skin. This should be handled appropriately not laughed off or given a big oh well. What would you do if it was your child being bitten? I wouldn't be the type of mother to just let it go. I would seriously question the type of care my child was receiving and would pull immediately.
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Old 08-27-2016, 10:04 PM
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First of all, we are NOT taking this lightly. We have an inexperienced staff on this matter and we're doing the best we can. I came on here to try to get some advice and I guess I am wasting my time. All of our kids come from troubled homes from the biter whose pregnant mom is trying to get off of meth to a 8 year old who has to run and hide every time the doorbell rings, which is mom's doing by the way, and not to mention the heartbreak of watching a mom getting her baby taken from her and so forth.

We are a non profit daycare so we can't afford to hire more experienced people, so we have to rely on ourselves to solve issues like these. Yes,we agree kids safety comes first. We just need some input, or maybe this isn't the right place to come to.

To OP, sorry I did not mean to highjack your thread. This got a little out of hand, I feel like I am getting a little bullied here.
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Old 08-28-2016, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Missy Poo View Post
First of all, we are NOT taking this lightly. We have an inexperienced staff on this matter and we're doing the best we can. I came on here to try to get some advice and I guess I am wasting my time. All of our kids come from troubled homes from the biter whose pregnant mom is trying to get off of meth to a 8 year old who has to run and hide every time the doorbell rings, which is mom's doing by the way, and not to mention the heartbreak of watching a mom getting her baby taken from her and so forth.

We are a non profit daycare so we can't afford to hire more experienced people, so we have to rely on ourselves to solve issues like these. Yes,we agree kids safety comes first. We just need some input, or maybe this isn't the right place to come to.

To OP, sorry I did not mean to highjack your thread. This got a little out of hand, I feel like I am getting a little bullied here.
You didn't post asking for advice. You simply stated you had a biter that bite the SAME child 4x's before you finally decided to separate him from others. There is nothing in your post asking advice for anything.

When I reacted/responded to your statment you came back at me as if I was over reacting...that shows you arent taking this matter very seriously at all. Then when others shared their concern, you get upset and start implying this isnt the right place to get the help you need...

Inexperienced staff, troubled families and doing the best you can are excuses... You still have an obligation to keep the children from physical harm.

Seek the experience, enroll in trainings, find experts who can advise you on how to properly manage safety in care, research solutions, read articles, forums and other sources of education in this area/subject.

Especially if your program serves those that are high risk. In my state those programs/caregivers are required to have double the experience and education than programs that dont cater to high risk families/children. Your program and director has no business having inexperienced or untrained staff providing care to high risk kids if they aren't provided physical safety above all else.

I dont think it takes a lot of training or experience to know that a child that poses a threat to others needs to be separated. Why wait until the 4th time?? Why was he allowed access to the victim after the first incident? That's plain old common sense in my eyes.

If you are seriously asking or looking for advice and/or assistance in solving this issue there are tons of experienced providers on this forum that will happily give you some excellent resources and helpful tricks and tips. The forum is also over flowing with threads about biting. Those threads contain an abundance of useful information.

You need to get past being personally offended when someone questions your current methods or you will never be able to truly help the families in your care.
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Old 08-28-2016, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Missy Poo View Post
First of all, we are NOT taking this lightly. We have an inexperienced staff on this matter and we're doing the best we can. I came on here to try to get some advice and I guess I am wasting my time. All of our kids come from troubled homes from the biter whose pregnant mom is trying to get off of meth to a 8 year old who has to run and hide every time the doorbell rings, which is mom's doing by the way, and not to mention the heartbreak of watching a mom getting her baby taken from her and so forth.

We are a non profit daycare so we can't afford to hire more experienced people, so we have to rely on ourselves to solve issues like these. Yes,we agree kids safety comes first. We just need some input, or maybe this isn't the right place to come to.

To OP, sorry I did not mean to highjack your thread. This got a little out of hand, I feel like I am getting a little bullied here.
Nothing I posted was a personal attack on you or anyone on here.

I am truly shocked that this happened with more than one adult available for supervision though.

I didn't read your post as asking for advice either, I was truly trying to help OP. I seen your follow up post as one big eye roll to the other advice given. Therefore your post is being perceived as if you are laughing off a very serious issue. This is the number one problem providers and parents alike deal with. But I received some special training on the topic and have so far only had one biter. So, yeah I don't perceive this as being normal, no matter what type of environment these kids are growing up in. So just because a child grows up in a disadvantaged home that means that they are just unruly children with problems? I just refuse to believe that just because a child is growing up in not the best of situations means that they are just lost causes and it worries me that this is the type of care from a nonprofit that they receive when if anything they need professional and properly trained staff so they can put these kids at an advantage not a disadvantage.

I don't believe you are being bullied but maybe being challenged to explain more of why your post was so flippant. I saw your post as saying that this type of behavior is kids being kids, and it's not. I don't have as much experience as most of these providers do. The ladies and gents on the forum have decades of experience and they absolutely know what they are talking about and run top notch high quality childcares. In my short time that I will be doing this I have changed a lot with my care and continue to do so with the knowledge these women and men have.

This makes me terribly sad and a little outraged.
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Old 08-28-2016, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Missy Poo View Post
First of all, we are NOT taking this lightly. We have an inexperienced staff on this matter and we're doing the best we can. I came on here to try to get some advice and I guess I am wasting my time. All of our kids come from troubled homes from the biter whose pregnant mom is trying to get off of meth to a 8 year old who has to run and hide every time the doorbell rings, which is mom's doing by the way, and not to mention the heartbreak of watching a mom getting her baby taken from her and so forth.

We are a non profit daycare so we can't afford to hire more experienced people, so we have to rely on ourselves to solve issues like these. Yes,we agree kids safety comes first. We just need some input, or maybe this isn't the right place to come to.

To OP, sorry I did not mean to highjack your thread. This got a little out of hand, I feel like I am getting a little bullied here.
I have had a few biters. Once it was due to issues with the mouth, once due to attention (same kid, once the mouth issues were fixed, he figured he could get a little negative attention this way). Another biter I'm just realizing has some other issues, Aspergers, a light case so to speak.

Once a child bites the first time, they need to be removed from the other kiddos and watched like a hawk. Set up a safe space. This can be gated or non-gated, depending on the age. Kids can be taught not to leave the area without the gate.

Give it some thought today and come up with a plan. Good luck!
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Old 08-28-2016, 10:48 AM
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I find it sad that the mom of bitee shrugged it off and said, "It happens." I could be understanding if my child had been bitten once, if a plan had been put in place to prevent a repeat. But four times in a day? Poor kid.

Bullied? No.
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