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  #1  
Old 03-22-2011, 10:09 AM
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Default 11.5 Hours A Day In Daycare?

I just got an email from someone looking for childcare. The hours that the mother said they would need are from 6:30am - 6:00pm. My hours of operation are from 7:30am - 5:15pm so obviously I'm not even considering taking in this family. However, I just feel that 11.5 hours a day for a 12 month old to be in daycare full time monday to friday is extremely excessive. Would you email her back and say anything? It's just bothering me....
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Old 03-22-2011, 10:25 AM
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That is a long, long day.
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Old 03-22-2011, 11:00 AM
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It is a long day, but most parents that work full time need a 1/2 hour to an hour to get to and from work. That's at least a 10 hour day.

If your hours are until 5:15, why did she call you if she needed care until 6:00??? Some people think they can call you in hopes that MAYBE you'll do an extra 45 minutes just for them. Uh uh....if you need care until 6:00 don't even call me!!!
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Old 03-22-2011, 11:03 AM
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I wouldnt say anything. But that is a long day. My hours are 7-5:30.
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Old 03-22-2011, 11:20 AM
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It is a really long day, but I know the nurses in my area work 12 hour shifts, so do some other professions. Some people can't get around needing 11-12 hour care for their children.
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Old 03-22-2011, 11:22 AM
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you are free to voice what you think, but it won't change anything. I would just email her back and say sorry I don't offer services for the hours you requested...
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Old 03-22-2011, 11:24 AM
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i would just say the hours wont work...as for it being a long day..i disagree. my parents ALL work fulltime M-f and i'm open from 630-6p ..yes a long day but its the hours they have to work . i think it depends on your area and travel times. around my area most jobs are 10+ hrs NOT including the1-2hr traffic/travel time esp those who travel thru the area tunnels. traffic is horrible. i've always had long days as you guys say but its the norm here.
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Old 03-22-2011, 11:31 AM
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12 hours is way too many hours for any child to be in child care of any age. With that being said, I do understand that parents need to work. But I really think that parents should have thought about that before having kids. Why have a child so someone else can raise your child? I get needing to work, location, and so on, but I think that it is sad that the child knows the provider more than their own parent.
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Old 03-22-2011, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by daycare View Post
12 hours is way too many hours for any child to be in child care of any age. With that being said, I do understand that parents need to work. But I really think that parents should have thought about that before having kids. Why have a child so someone else can raise your child? I get needing to work, location, and so on, but I think that it is sad that the child knows the provider more than their own parent.
I have to agree with you. I have parents that work 12 hour shifts and others than work long hours and travel. All of them manage to work things so their kids don't need to be with me all of their waking hours. It makes me sad when I think about those little ones away from Mom and Dad for so long.

I have 2 kids that are here my max of 10 hours a day most days and they are by far the most needy, least well behaved kids that I have at drop off and pickup. They just lose all control because they're frantic for their parents.

I'm not saying there isn't a need for 12 hour a day care but it should not be the norm IMO.
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Old 03-22-2011, 11:58 AM
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I worked 10.5 hour days when I used to work away from home-with a 30 minute commute each way. The thing is, I only did this 3 days per week and did this so I could be home with my children more often. I worked 3 days/week at 10.5 hours/day and 1 day/week 6 hour days. We made it work just fine.

First, I started before daycare was open, so my DH brought the kids around 8:00am. Then, I worked until 4:30, so I was able to pick them up by 5:00. They did this 3 days/week (9 hours/day in daycare). The 4th day, they were in care from 8:00 (when DH dropped them off) until 12:30 when I picked them up. Sometimes my family would watch them for the 4th day so I didn't have to disrupt the other kids schedules at daycare with the early pick up. The 5th day, I was home with my kids.

So, yes, some people do have to work long days. However, it is unusual that they do not have another person who can drop off later or pick up earlier. It is also unusual that someone would have to work this many hours all 5 days/week. I'm not saying that there aren't single parents who work 55 hours plus per week, but I am saying that it isn't usual.

I, too, find that many of my dcks are here when the first parent goes to work and are here until the last parent gets done. I know that many of my kids don't live nearby, so it might be a matter of who works closer. However, while I don't care as long as they are dropped off and picked up within my open hours, I've always wondered why the last parent to go to work doesn't drop off and the first parent off of work in the evening doesn't pick up. I'm not judging, I just wonder why that's easier.

I think daycare is a great place for kids. But, I do think 57-58 hours a week is a lot. I probably wouldn't say anything since these hours don't work for you anyway, but I don't think you're alone in thinking that is a lot.
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Old 03-22-2011, 11:59 AM
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I don't offer services to families that need more than nine hours of care per day or 45 hours total per week. I prefer families that have at least five hours per day of AWAKE time with their child.

It does limit the families I can work for but it makes for excellent relationships with the child and the parents.
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Old 03-22-2011, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by daycare View Post
12 hours is way too many hours for any child to be in child care of any age. With that being said, I do understand that parents need to work. But I really think that parents should have thought about that before having kids. Why have a child so someone else can raise your child? I get needing to work, location, and so on, but I think that it is sad that the child knows the provider more than their own parent.
I REALLY think that that statement is unfair. I highly doubt that most people enter the world of parentning knowing that they will NEVER have a job change and work hours increased, or commute time increased, etc. Life changes, you assimilate to survive. I think MOST parents would prefer to parent their child and not send them to daycare at all....but the fact of the matter is that parents have to work to feed, shelter and clothe their children and most will do whatever it takes to ensure they can meet those needs...


I have parents who need 11 hours of care. They work and commute. I'm open, so I offer them what they need.
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Old 03-22-2011, 12:13 PM
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I'm a live-in nanny, and I have the kids from 7:30am to 5/6pm and then their parents have them from around 6 to 8 when it's bedtime. It makes me sad for the kids. I've noticed more and more frequently even with mom and dad home the youngest will seek me out (his brother is in school now from 8:30-3:30) and want to sit with me/talk to me/ask me to do things for him because he's gotten so used to being just with me all day. Their parents try but they both work full time, there's a commute, and unfortunately people tend to over-extend themselves and have to work super hard to pay for the big house/nice cars/expensive crap they buy their kids.
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Old 03-22-2011, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
I REALLY think that that statement is unfair. I highly doubt that most people enter the world of parentning knowing that they will NEVER have a job change and work hours increased, or commute time increased, etc. Life changes, you assimilate to survive. I think MOST parents would prefer to parent their child and not send them to daycare at all....but the fact of the matter is that parents have to work to feed, shelter and clothe their children and most will do whatever it takes to ensure they can meet those needs...


I have parents who need 11 hours of care. They work and commute. I'm open, so I offer them what they need.
I don't think it’s unfair to state that, I know "life happens" and the tough gets going when the going gets tough. I just don't offer services to those families anymore, as I don't think it is fair to the child.
I do feel that adults should be the one to have to make sacrifices. Why is it necessary for every family to have to keep up with the Jones’s?

I was once a single parent with two kids for a long length of time and I had to do what I had to do to make ends meet. But I did not let that stop me from coaching their soccer teams, spending quality time with them outside of work and so forth. I went without a lot of stuff and lived my life for my children. I could have worked the 45 hour work week plus commute time, as I lived in Orange County and that is commute He!!....

But it was not my children's fault and therefore I gave up everything I could that would help better their lives. I sold my fancy car and bought a used one, I kept healthy so I could wear the same clothes for 10years.. I did everything in my power to make sure that dad and I were the one's raising them. When they were at dad's I worked more hours, worked weekends or odd jobs to make ends meet.

Parents don't stop to think about who is really affected and just except that working 12+ hour days as their way of life.......
I think that it is selfish and sad............ I know that if I could do this with two young kids as a single mom and finishing school at the same time that ANYONE could do it too.

If only parents realized that their kids really only want time with their mom/dad to be held, read to, played with, sang to or just be near them, parents would not be killing themself to work many hours to buy all of the uncessary things...........
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Old 03-22-2011, 12:30 PM
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I would at least return the call or email and tell her your hours of operation. If she actually works within those hours, perhaps you can schedule an interview. If she is in fact needing care for 11.5 hours per day, she probably needs to look elsewhere.

I won't work for families for more than 10 hours per day. That gives them an 8 hour work day, an hour for lunch and a half hour to get back and forth each way.
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  #16  
Old 03-22-2011, 12:41 PM
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oh a half hour commute would be bliss! Unfortunately I live in the DC area, where even if your commute should be a half hour, it is usually an hour or more.
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Old 03-22-2011, 12:58 PM
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I don't think it’s unfair to state that, I know "life happens" and the tough gets going when the going gets tough. I just don't offer services to those families anymore, as I don't think it is fair to the child.
I do feel that adults should be the one to have to make sacrifices. Why is it necessary for every family to have to keep up with the Jones’s?

I was once a single parent with two kids for a long length of time and I had to do what I had to do to make ends meet. But I did not let that stop me from coaching their soccer teams, spending quality time with them outside of work and so forth. I went without a lot of stuff and lived my life for my children. I could have worked the 45 hour work week plus commute time, as I lived in Orange County and that is commute He!!....

But it was not my children's fault and therefore I gave up everything I could that would help better their lives. I sold my fancy car and bought a used one, I kept healthy so I could wear the same clothes for 10years.. I did everything in my power to make sure that dad and I were the one's raising them. When they were at dad's I worked more hours, worked weekends or odd jobs to make ends meet.

Parents don't stop to think about who is really affected and just except that working 12+ hour days as their way of life.......
I think that it is selfish and sad............ I know that if I could do this with two young kids as a single mom and finishing school at the same time that ANYONE could do it too.

If only parents realized that their kids really only want time with their mom/dad to be held, read to, played with, sang to or just be near them, parents would not be killing themself to work many hours to buy all of the uncessary things...........
Been there, done that and proud to say I survived. It changes your perspective to what someone CAN do rather than what they can't.
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Old 03-22-2011, 03:03 PM
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I have parents who need 11 hours of care. They work and commute. I'm open, so I offer them what they need.
See this is what I don't get.

You stand firm that develomentally approriate programs are what all programs should be. You have shared that you are an evaluator of programs as a part of your living.

How can you suggest that it is EVER developmentally appropriate for a developmentally appropriate program to ALLOW eleven hour days? Doesn't that completely defy developmentally appropriate?

Where is it on your evaluation tools that asks "how many hours per day does each child in this program attend?". Shouldn't that be the FIRST question? Shouldn't that be more important than whether or not their is a sand and water table? Shouldn't that matter more than having comfy seating or a "quiet area" for privacy?

When are we going to recognize that it is impossible to be developmentally appropriate when a child is away from their parent that many waking hours a day? When are we going to take a stand and tell parents we just can't do it? It's too much.

There are only twenty four hours in a day. That can't be cheated. If a kid is in your home eleven hours and has transport time home with parents there is no possible way for them to have any substantial DAILY awake face time with their kid.

I do nine hours max. You allow eleven. Just think about the last two hours every day in your program and imagine every single kid being home and awake with their parents.

Now you tell me that you wouldn't prefer that? You tell me it wouldn't make a HUGE difference in the quality of parenting and the quality of YOU and your work?

This isn't something that needs researching... it's plain simple common sense. Children need TIME .... awake TIME.. every day with their parents.

I won't be a part of any care that means that at the end of the week the kid is in my care more hours awake than they are in the parents care a week awake.

I'm not talking about sleeping times... I'm talking about awake hours. Not counting nap... not counting sleeping at night... AWAKE hours.

We need to be the ones to take a stand and say we won't do it. We won't be a part of any system that promotes that much time in care. Sure people have busy lives .... they have to work... but the message needs to be sent before the kid is even conceived that the "BEST" child care won't allow eleven hour days because the best know it's not in the BEST interest of the kids.
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Old 03-22-2011, 03:19 PM
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See this is what I don't get.

You stand firm that develomentally approriate programs are what all programs should be. You have shared that you are an evaluator of programs as a part of your living.

How can you suggest that it is EVER developmentally appropriate for a developmentally appropriate program to ALLOW eleven hour days? Doesn't that completely defy developmentally appropriate?

Where is it on your evaluation tools that asks "how many hours per day does each child in this program attend?". Shouldn't that be the FIRST question? Shouldn't that be more important than whether or not their is a sand and water table? Shouldn't that matter more than having comfy seating or a "quiet area" for privacy?

When are we going to recognize that it is impossible to be developmentally appropriate when a child is away from their parent that many waking hours a day? When are we going to take a stand and tell parents we just can't do it? It's too much.

There are only twenty four hours in a day. That can't be cheated. If a kid is in your home eleven hours and has transport time home with parents there is no possible way for them to have any substantial DAILY awake face time with their kid.

I do nine hours max. You allow eleven. Just think about the last two hours every day in your program and imagine every single kid being home and awake with their parents.

Now you tell me that you wouldn't prefer that? You tell me it wouldn't make a HUGE difference in the quality of parenting and the quality of YOU and your work?

This isn't something that needs researching... it's plain simple common sense. Children need TIME .... awake TIME.. every day with their parents.

I won't be a part of any care that means that at the end of the week the kid is in my care more hours awake than they are in the parents care a week awake.

I'm not talking about sleeping times... I'm talking about awake hours. Not counting nap... not counting sleeping at night... AWAKE hours.

We need to be the ones to take a stand and say we won't do it. We won't be a part of any system that promotes that much time in care. Sure people have busy lives .... they have to work... but the message needs to be sent before the kid is even conceived that the "BEST" child care won't allow eleven hour days because the best know it's not in the BEST interest of the kids.
didnt someone just post an article about children that are in daycare too many hours a day being overly agressive?
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Old 03-22-2011, 03:23 PM
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call me stupid, but if one parent works 12 hour shifts, then does the other parent also work 12 hours or do they work in the same place. Do you see what I mean. I find it hard to believe that both parents work 12 hour shift that begin and end at the same time.
Also, I agree with the comment about having kids. If your working 12 hour shifts now, more than likely they were working these shifts before they had children, so many parents know darn well what they are getting into.
Yes its sad that children spend so much time in the care of other people, what makes me more mad are the ones that then have the nerve to complain how bad their children are when they are acually with them.
also, another stupid question, many people who work 12 hour shifts have days off, usually they would work 3 12 hour shift and then have like 4 days off, kwim. What jobs offer long hours, nurses, cops, seasonal workers but what else.
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Old 03-22-2011, 03:28 PM
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call me stupid, but if one parent works 12 hour shifts, then does the other parent also work 12 hours or do they work in the same place. Do you see what I mean. I find it hard to believe that both parents work 12 hour shift that begin and end at the same time.
Also, I agree with the comment about having kids. If your working 12 hour shifts now, more than likely they were working these shifts before they had children, so many parents know darn well what they are getting into.
Yes its sad that children spend so much time in the care of other people, what makes me more mad are the ones that then have the nerve to complain how bad their children are when they are acually with them.
also, another stupid question, many people who work 12 hour shifts have days off, usually they would work 3 12 hour shift and then have like 4 days off, kwim. What jobs offer long hours, nurses, cops, seasonal workers but what else.
uuuuggghhh just sad so sad is all I can say.. I feel that as everything else, it is a choice to DO or NOT to DO something. Sad that parents chose work over their children becuase that is what they are used to............
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Old 03-22-2011, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
See this is what I don't get.

You stand firm that develomentally approriate programs are what all programs should be. You have shared that you are an evaluator of programs as a part of your living.

How can you suggest that it is EVER developmentally appropriate for a developmentally appropriate program to ALLOW eleven hour days? Doesn't that completely defy developmentally appropriate?

Where is it on your evaluation tools that asks "how many hours per day does each child in this program attend?". Shouldn't that be the FIRST question? Shouldn't that be more important than whether or not their is a sand and water table? Shouldn't that matter more than having comfy seating or a "quiet area" for privacy?

When are we going to recognize that it is impossible to be developmentally appropriate when a child is away from their parent that many waking hours a day? When are we going to take a stand and tell parents we just can't do it? It's too much.

There are only twenty four hours in a day. That can't be cheated. If a kid is in your home eleven hours and has transport time home with parents there is no possible way for them to have any substantial DAILY awake face time with their kid.

I do nine hours max. You allow eleven. Just think about the last two hours every day in your program and imagine every single kid being home and awake with their parents.

Now you tell me that you wouldn't prefer that? You tell me it wouldn't make a HUGE difference in the quality of parenting and the quality of YOU and your work?

This isn't something that needs researching... it's plain simple common sense. Children need TIME .... awake TIME.. every day with their parents.

I won't be a part of any care that means that at the end of the week the kid is in my care more hours awake than they are in the parents care a week awake.

I'm not talking about sleeping times... I'm talking about awake hours. Not counting nap... not counting sleeping at night... AWAKE hours.

We need to be the ones to take a stand and say we won't do it. We won't be a part of any system that promotes that much time in care. Sure people have busy lives .... they have to work... but the message needs to be sent before the kid is even conceived that the "BEST" child care won't allow eleven hour days because the best know it's not in the BEST interest of the kids.
I 100% agree with you and that is why the email that I recieved bothered me so much and I really just wanted to say something in response!
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Old 03-22-2011, 05:26 PM
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12 hours is way too many hours for any child to be in child care of any age. With that being said, I do understand that parents need to work. But I really think that parents should have thought about that before having kids. Why have a child so someone else can raise your child? I get needing to work, location, and so on, but I think that it is sad that the child knows the provider more than their own parent.

I feel the same way.

Nannyde- I have noticed also that the parents that are on the ball with their kids and have better behaved children are the ones who DO NOT keep their children at our center for longer than a 9 hour day tops. The kids that stay 9.5 to 10+ hours are the worst behaved. Oh and one of them gets about 2hrs home with parents before they put him down for bed. When his behaviors act out and we let the parents know they have the AUDACITY to say well we don't see these behaviors at home. ???? I want to say OMG spend more than 2 hours with him a night. Keep him home on your day off for once. OH that is right he drives you crazy. I have all I can do to NOT say that back to her.
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Old 03-22-2011, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
See this is what I don't get.

You stand firm that develomentally approriate programs are what all programs should be. You have shared that you are an evaluator of programs as a part of your living.

How can you suggest that it is EVER developmentally appropriate for a developmentally appropriate program to ALLOW eleven hour days? Doesn't that completely defy developmentally appropriate?

Where is it on your evaluation tools that asks "how many hours per day does each child in this program attend?". Shouldn't that be the FIRST question? Shouldn't that be more important than whether or not their is a sand and water table? Shouldn't that matter more than having comfy seating or a "quiet area" for privacy?

When are we going to recognize that it is impossible to be developmentally appropriate when a child is away from their parent that many waking hours a day? When are we going to take a stand and tell parents we just can't do it? It's too much.

There are only twenty four hours in a day. That can't be cheated. If a kid is in your home eleven hours and has transport time home with parents there is no possible way for them to have any substantial DAILY awake face time with their kid.

I do nine hours max. You allow eleven. Just think about the last two hours every day in your program and imagine every single kid being home and awake with their parents.

Now you tell me that you wouldn't prefer that? You tell me it wouldn't make a HUGE difference in the quality of parenting and the quality of YOU and your work?

This isn't something that needs researching... it's plain simple common sense. Children need TIME .... awake TIME.. every day with their parents.

I won't be a part of any care that means that at the end of the week the kid is in my care more hours awake than they are in the parents care a week awake.

I'm not talking about sleeping times... I'm talking about awake hours. Not counting nap... not counting sleeping at night... AWAKE hours.

We need to be the ones to take a stand and say we won't do it. We won't be a part of any system that promotes that much time in care. Sure people have busy lives .... they have to work... but the message needs to be sent before the kid is even conceived that the "BEST" child care won't allow eleven hour days because the best know it's not in the BEST interest of the kids.
people who obsess over "awake time" are under the assumption that all or most kids go to bed at 8pm apparently. when i was working and going to school my kids were in daycare sometimes from 630-7am until 530-6pm. part of that time i worked at daycare, other times i didn't. they aren't aggresive children, we didn't fail to bond, and they are still young so i have plenty of time left to spend. i've said before the choice to use daycare when they were young was the lesser evil since the alternative was not being educated and working long hours for low pay their entire childhood.

anyway, when they went to daycare at 630-7 i had to wake them up at 5am. that means they were AWAKE with me for 1.5 - 2 hours in the morning as i got them ready, fed them (if they didn't eat at daycare), watched cartoons - whatever. after waking up so early they would take looong naps at daycare. i don't think my kids have ever gone to bed before 10pm. i don't see how it's even possible for a kid who's in daycare until 530 or 6 to be in bed by 8:00 after you factor in commute, dinner, bath, and then a little play time, tv time, winding down - whatever you want to call it.

with the schedule i have now i sometimes go 3 days straight without seeing my kids. THEN i'll be off and don't go to work at all for 7-8 days sometimes.

anyone who thinks if a parent REALLY wants to that they can stay home with their child and not work is delusional (but it's also ironic that they have an income from home) or they had/have a husband with a substantial income. our house is totally 100% paid for. our cars are 100% paid for and they are nothing fancy (1998 gmc truck and 2004 cavalier) and STILL we both have to work.

the "if i can do it so can they" attitude is so out there. everyone doesn't have the same circumstances and if everyone could stay home with their children then nobody would have a job as a daycare provider would they.
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Old 03-22-2011, 07:31 PM
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See this is what I don't get.

You stand firm that develomentally approriate programs are what all programs should be. You have shared that you are an evaluator of programs as a part of your living.
Of course.

How can you suggest that it is EVER developmentally appropriate for a developmentally appropriate program to ALLOW eleven hour days? Doesn't that completely defy developmentally appropriate?When I speak of developmentally appropriate, I am referring to caring for children based on what are considered developmentally appropriate practices. Providing QUALITY CHILD CARE, QUALITY EARLY EXPERIENCES, in MY program. Nowhere in DAP guidelines does it state that a program should not allow 11 hour days or that I must MAKE a parent comply to my demands.

Where is it on your evaluation tools that asks "how many hours per day does each child in this program attend?". Shouldn't that be the FIRST question? Shouldn't that be more important than whether or not their is a sand and water table? Shouldn't that matter more than having comfy seating or a "quiet area" for privacyNo, because the tools we use are based on the environment, not number of hours of care. BUT, I would certainly hope that children who do attend 11 hours a day are in a program that is developmentally appropriate. And, of course, spending quality time with the parent is the better alternative, when possible.
When are we going to recognize that it is impossible to be developmentally appropriate when a child is away from their parent that many waking hours a day? When are we going to take a stand and tell parents we just can't do it? It's too much.
I agree that it is not “ideal” for a child to be away from their parents that many hours per day. Ideally parents would stay home and parent their children 100% of the time, but that isn’t realistic. Who are “WE” to take a stand against parents to inflict our own personal philosophy of parenting?

There are only twenty four hours in a day. That can't be cheated. If a kid is in your home eleven hours and has transport time home with parents there is no possible way for them to have any substantial DAILY awake face time with their kid.
I know. But it is what has to be done for Mom to provide basic, adequate care for her children. Who am I to judge her because she is trying to provide for her children without welfare and she is hoping to provide a better future for them?

I do nine hours max. You allow eleven. Just think about the last two hours every day in your program and imagine every single kid being home and awake with their parents. That would be swell, but the reality is that there are parents who NEED 11 hours of care…..and I NEED to meet the needs of families, or I wouldn’t have a job.

Now you tell me that you wouldn't prefer that? You tell me it wouldn't make a HUGE difference in the quality of parenting and the quality of YOU and your work? For the kids, certainly, I would prefer that. I don’t think it would necessarily affect my work, unless all of the kids in care were here 11 hours a day.

This isn't something that needs researching... it's plain simple common sense. Children need TIME .... awake TIME.. every day with their parents. Absolutely. They do. Unfortunately, my little kiddos have to stay up a bit later than I’d like, but their Mom DOES spend awake time with them every day. And, she makes weekends with her very meaningful to them.

I won't be a part of any care that means that at the end of the week the kid is in my care more hours awake than they are in the parents care a week awake. And that’s YOUR prerogative and you can run your business however you see fit.

We need to be the ones to take a stand and say we won't do it. We won't be a part of any system that promotes that much time in care. Sure people have busy lives .... they have to work... but the message needs to be sent before the kid is even conceived that the "BEST" child care won't allow eleven hour days because the best know it's not in the BEST interest of the kids.Again, IDEALLY we could do this and it would work. But the fact of the matter is that parents WORK to SUPPORT and PROVIDE for their children. IDEALLY parents would make the “choice” to not have children that they cannot “afford” to have, but REALITY is that parents CANNOT afford to care for their children if they do not work……and for some that means a long work day or commute. And, yeah, here in the city commute time can take up to two hours.
We can sit around and judge parents all day long, but it isn’t going to change the fact that some need extended hours of care.
I’d like to see ONE provider on this site who would consider themselves the PERFECT parent, because that sure as hell is what many of you ACT like when you talk about other people’s parenting.
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Old 03-22-2011, 07:32 PM
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people who obsess over "awake time" are under the assumption that all or most kids go to bed at 8pm apparently. when i was working and going to school my kids were in daycare sometimes from 630-7am until 530-6pm. part of that time i worked at daycare, other times i didn't. they aren't aggresive children, we didn't fail to bond, and they are still young so i have plenty of time left to spend. i've said before the choice to use daycare when they were young was the lesser evil since the alternative was not being educated and working long hours for low pay their entire childhood.

anyway, when they went to daycare at 630-7 i had to wake them up at 5am. that means they were AWAKE with me for 1.5 - 2 hours in the morning as i got them ready, fed them (if they didn't eat at daycare), watched cartoons - whatever. after waking up so early they would take looong naps at daycare. i don't think my kids have ever gone to bed before 10pm. i don't see how it's even possible for a kid who's in daycare until 530 or 6 to be in bed by 8:00 after you factor in commute, dinner, bath, and then a little play time, tv time, winding down - whatever you want to call it.

with the schedule i have now i sometimes go 3 days straight without seeing my kids. THEN i'll be off and don't go to work at all for 7-8 days sometimes.

anyone who thinks if a parent REALLY wants to that they can stay home with their child and not work is delusional (but it's also ironic that they have an income from home) or they had/have a husband with a substantial income. our house is totally 100% paid for. our cars are 100% paid for and they are nothing fancy (1998 gmc truck and 2004 cavalier) and STILL we both have to work.

the "if i can do it so can they" attitude is so out there. everyone doesn't have the same circumstances and if everyone could stay home with their children then nobody would have a job as a daycare provider would they.
As a parent who has been there, and a provider who understands you, Thanks
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Old 03-22-2011, 07:45 PM
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I say we all just need to agree to disagree and leave it at that..................can you feel the love tonight?????????????lol smile tomorrow is wednesday!!
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Old 03-23-2011, 03:01 AM
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people who obsess over "awake time" are under the assumption that all or most kids go to bed at 8pm apparently. when i was working and going to school my kids were in daycare sometimes from 630-7am until 530-6pm. part of that time i worked at daycare, other times i didn't. they aren't aggresive children, we didn't fail to bond, and they are still young so i have plenty of time left to spend. i've said before the choice to use daycare when they were young was the lesser evil since the alternative was not being educated and working long hours for low pay their entire childhood.

anyway, when they went to daycare at 630-7 i had to wake them up at 5am. that means they were AWAKE with me for 1.5 - 2 hours in the morning as i got them ready, fed them (if they didn't eat at daycare), watched cartoons - whatever. after waking up so early they would take looong naps at daycare. i don't think my kids have ever gone to bed before 10pm. i don't see how it's even possible for a kid who's in daycare until 530 or 6 to be in bed by 8:00 after you factor in commute, dinner, bath, and then a little play time, tv time, winding down - whatever you want to call it.

with the schedule i have now i sometimes go 3 days straight without seeing my kids. THEN i'll be off and don't go to work at all for 7-8 days sometimes.

anyone who thinks if a parent REALLY wants to that they can stay home with their child and not work is delusional (but it's also ironic that they have an income from home) or they had/have a husband with a substantial income. our house is totally 100% paid for. our cars are 100% paid for and they are nothing fancy (1998 gmc truck and 2004 cavalier) and STILL we both have to work.

the "if i can do it so can they" attitude is so out there. everyone doesn't have the same circumstances and if everyone could stay home with their children then nobody would have a job as a daycare provider would they.
i don't see how it's even possible for a kid who's in daycare until 530 or 6 to be in bed by 8:00 after you factor in commute, dinner, bath, and then a little play time, tv time, winding down - whatever you want to call it.

I think it's VERY common. I think one indicator that this is happening is when parents start asking for a short nap or no nap for the child.

If you have a parent that keeps the kid up until ten or eleven every night and when they return to day care for their eleven hour day they go straight back to bed to finish their nights sleep and then have a long three/four hour nap... then YES it could be done.

I also do NOT see parent who put their kid to bed getting them up at five a.m. when they aren't leaveing for work two hours later. I honestly think you were very very very much the exception to the rule.

That's going to put that parent into a six/seven hour night sleep and no time at home when they don't have their kids up. I don't think this is common at all. I think kids who are on eleven hour days at day care go home, have supper, have baths, have some TV time, and go to bed around eight or nine. I think that would be best case normal scenario.

Worst case scenario is travel home, bath, quickie supper, TV and to bed at seven ... seven thirty. This IS possible ... especially for the kids who are not having nap during the day or a short... very early awake time in the afternoon nap.

I don't mind twelve hour days for kids who have parents that work twelve hour days three days a week. I've done that in my many years of caring for kids and I love that. The kid gets the full time hours in here... and they get four days off a week with their parent. That extra two working days off with the parent makes ALL the difference in awake face time with their kid.
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Old 03-23-2011, 03:02 AM
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I say we all just need to agree to disagree and leave it at that..................can you feel the love tonight?????????????lol smile tomorrow is wednesday!!
We SHOULD be having this conversation. It's important.
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Old 03-23-2011, 03:37 AM
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I think that every families situation is different. Today with jobs, people work different shifts, crazy hours as in start and stop times, etc. What 1 person may call normal, may not be normal at all for another person and their job. Sometimes a person gets a job, and the hours are changed on them. They have no choice but to work the hours they are told. Life isn't always full of choices. Sometimes we as parents are pushed into a situation that we don't like, but we must work to support our family and that means doing and accomodating whatever the boss says.

If you have never worked a 12 hour shift, whether it be in as a nurse or in a factory, it is not easy. My husband lost his job, got a job working M-F 8 hour shifts, got laid off for a month, then when called back got put on 12 hour shifts, 6 PM to 6 AM. That lasted for about 2 weeks. It was horrible for him. It was NOT his choice. Even though he only worked 3 days one week and 4 days the next, when ever he had a day off, he was struggling with his sleep, trying to catch up on his sleep, trying to get his body back on a system, then it was work day again. It is not easy working 12 hour shifts, especially when you are working a physically exhausing job.

Because a parent has a job that is 12 hour shifts, does not mean they love their child any less. While I agree that 12 hours is a long day in daycare for a child, it surely doesn't mean a parent is unconcerned for their child. Not everyone is in a position to drop a job because of the work hours.
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Old 03-23-2011, 03:47 AM
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I think that every families situation is different. Today with jobs, people work different shifts, crazy hours as in start and stop times, etc. What 1 person may call normal, may not be normal at all for another person and their job. Sometimes a person gets a job, and the hours are changed on them. They have no choice but to work the hours they are told. Life isn't always full of choices. Sometimes we as parents are pushed into a situation that we don't like, but we must work to support our family and that means doing and accomodating whatever the boss says.

If you have never worked a 12 hour shift, whether it be in as a nurse or in a factory, it is not easy. My husband lost his job, got a job working M-F 8 hour shifts, got laid off for a month, then when called back got put on 12 hour shifts, 6 PM to 6 AM. That lasted for about 2 weeks. It was horrible for him. It was NOT his choice. Even though he only worked 3 days one week and 4 days the next, when ever he had a day off, he was struggling with his sleep, trying to catch up on his sleep, trying to get his body back on a system, then it was work day again. It is not easy working 12 hour shifts, especially when you are working a physically exhausing job.

Because a parent has a job that is 12 hour shifts, does not mean they love their child any less. While I agree that 12 hours is a long day in daycare for a child, it surely doesn't mean a parent is unconcerned for their child. Not everyone is in a position to drop a job because of the work hours.
I don't think anyone is disputing the difficulties of a 12 hour day. However, you BOTH weren't working 12 hour days so your children wouldn't have been in care for 12 hours a day.

My ex sister in law is a nurse and works two 7am to 7pm shifts then two 7pm to 7am shifts then off for 5 days. For the day shifts my BIL dropped off and picked up around his 8 hr shift. For the two days after the two nights he would drop my niece off, my sis in law would sleep until 3-4pm and then come get her to spend a few hours with her before she went back to work. SIL was always exhausted...its' a stressful work schedule but she loves the 5 days off with my niece so they work around her schedule so my neice doesn't have to go to daycare for 12 hours a day.
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Old 03-23-2011, 04:02 AM
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Still, if one parent works 12 hour shifts, and the other parents works an 8 hour shift with a 1 hour lunch and 30 min to 1 hour commute each way, then, we are still looking at an easy 10 1/2 + hour day at daycare. My whole point was, what is "normal" for one family could not be "normal" for another, and people shouldn't be judged a bad parent because of that.
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Old 03-23-2011, 04:22 AM
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I would never call someone a bad parent for working fulltime. But I do feel sorry for their children. They need Mama and Daddy time much more than time with me. In most cases (there are always exceptions) it should be possible for parents to stagger shifts so that the kids get more time with mom and dad and less with the provider.

Heck, I worked two jobs and went to university when my oldest was little and I still saw her more than some of my parents see their own children with two working parents in the household.
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Old 03-23-2011, 04:24 AM
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i don't see how it's even possible for a kid who's in daycare until 530 or 6 to be in bed by 8:00 after you factor in commute, dinner, bath, and then a little play time, tv time, winding down - whatever you want to call it.

I think it's VERY common. I think one indicator that this is happening is when parents start asking for a short nap or no nap for the child.

If you have a parent that keeps the kid up until ten or eleven every night and when they return to day care for their eleven hour day they go straight back to bed to finish their nights sleep and then have a long three/four hour nap... then YES it could be done.

I also do NOT see parent who put their kid to bed getting them up at five a.m. when they aren't leaveing for work two hours later. I honestly think you were very very very much the exception to the rule.

That's going to put that parent into a six/seven hour night sleep and no time at home when they don't have their kids up. I don't think this is common at all. I think kids who are on eleven hour days at day care go home, have supper, have baths, have some TV time, and go to bed around eight or nine. I think that would be best case normal scenario.

Worst case scenario is travel home, bath, quickie supper, TV and to bed at seven ... seven thirty. This IS possible ... especially for the kids who are not having nap during the day or a short... very early awake time in the afternoon nap.

I don't mind twelve hour days for kids who have parents that work twelve hour days three days a week. I've done that in my many years of caring for kids and I love that. The kid gets the full time hours in here... and they get four days off a week with their parent. That extra two working days off with the parent makes ALL the difference in awake face time with their kid.
i know that it DOES happen, but i think providers are under the impression that it's the norm (and maybe it IS) but that screws parents who are the exception - and so is life, i guess. i worked with a girl at the very daycare my children attended who had 2 year old twins who she said she put to bed at 730-8pm. we didn't even get off work til 6pm and i asked her, HOW?! there was actually another lady who i worked with that said the same thing...and i just couldn't understand it.

i HAD to wake up at 5 and get the kids up bc by the time i got ready, got them ready, and made it to the daycare it was 630 at the earliest, 7 at the latest and i had a 45 minute commute after that which spared 15 minutes for me to be in class by 8 (which of course i had to park, walk, etc. or god forbid stop and get gas while my kids were in daycare <gasp>). is getting gas considering taking advantage since you're not at work? just wondering. that's not directed at you, nannyde - just a general question.

i actually DID ask about how long nap time lasted, especially after learning that kids who went to the same daycare and were on the same nap schedule were going to bed by 8pm when mine were staying up til 10-11pm. i didn't mind spending time with them, but i was worried if they were getting enough sleep at night since they woke up at 5. if a child goes to sleep at 11 and wakes up at 5 that's only six hours, but if they were sleeping for three...or four or more at daycare (if they took 2 naps)...then it would make sense. i loved spending time with them, but of course i couldn't do homework until after they were in bed so an 11pm bedtime for them (due to a super long nap at daycare) usually meant a 2pm bedtime for ME only to turn around and wake up at 5am again!

anyhow, (not directed at you, nannyde) it is entirely understandable that a child could have an 11-12 hour day at daycare even in a 2 parent home. when i was waking up at 5am all that time, my husband was leaving the house at 5am to start work at 6am. therefore, i had to drop off at daycare. then, i would get off at 6 (when i worked at the daycare) and 530 when i didn't work at the daycare (and that was only cus my boss let me leave early since daycare closed at 6) - and he didn't get home until 7, 8, or sometimes 9pm depending on what time it got dark out - time change and all.

point being - don't assume that just because there are 2 parents in a home that they aren't sacrificing enough or don't care or aren't spending any awake time with their child(ren). like i said, we own our home and our cars and we both still have to work to keep above water - not to have fancy cars or vacations (which we're not taking this year). if both parents are working full time or if one parent is working and the other is working and going to school - there's nothing strange about an 11-12 hour day. my kids aren't in daycare anymore, but starting next week i'm going to have to get a neighbor to put my kids on the bus because i won't get home from work until 830am, my husband has to be AT work by 7am, and my children's bus comes AT 7am. again - two parent home, no fancy cars, a house that's paid for, and we STILL have a need for childcare even if it is only for 30 minutes. i would dare say most daycare parents don't own their cars and homes free and clear so it just doesn't seem strange to me at all.
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Old 03-23-2011, 04:27 AM
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I'm open from 6:30 to 6 however I don't have any child for that long but I do have some that are in care for 10 hours and I think thats a long day for children
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Old 03-23-2011, 04:31 AM
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I do agree that 11 or 12 hours is a very long day in care for children. I will have to say where I'm at the economy has forced people to work longer hours, forcing their children to be in care longer. I'm lucky and have not had to take children who need more than 9 hours a day.

This is my personal opionion and I don't mean any disrespect to anyone, but I don't really care what the at home schedules of the children I take care of are. I don't care how many hours parents are with their children. I focus on what goes on when they are in my care and do the best for them when they are with me. I control the things that I can and don't worry about the things that I can't control.
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:36 AM
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I have one child who is in care for more than 10 hours per day for 5 day each week. His parents are both educated professional and work everyday. Dad drops off in the mornings (6:45) so mom can have some "free time" to herself before she goes to work at 9:00 and mom picks up at 5:30 because dad goes home at 4 so he can some "free time" to himself.

I guess they figure it is shared parenting since each of them has to do a pick-up or drop-off. The child is a pretty good kid and I have had them since the child was 6 months old and is now 4. I feel bad because most of the bad behaviors the child has stem from his lack of parnet time impo, but what do ya do?
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Old 03-23-2011, 07:33 AM
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I do agree that 11 or 12 hours is a very long day in care for children. I will have to say where I'm at the economy has forced people to work longer hours, forcing their children to be in care longer. I'm lucky and have not had to take children who need more than 9 hours a day.

This is my personal opionion and I don't mean any disrespect to anyone, but I don't really care what the at home schedules of the children I take care of are. I don't care how many hours parents are with their children. I focus on what goes on when they are in my care and do the best for them when they are with me. I control the things that I can and don't worry about the things that I can't control.
I TOTALLY agree! Honestly, in many cultures through history, parents have had to entrust their children to another caregiver for long days and as long as everyone involved is acting in the best interest of the child, we've done just fine. Telling a parent they should spend more time with their child, while continuing to charge them for it is silly. If we really feel that strongly about it, we should all have graduated rates, like Nannyde does.

IMO, it's not my business what parents are doing or how long they're away while their child is in care. Yes, I sometimes end up with one child for the last two hours of the day, but really, I'm getting paid for a full 12 hours for all 5 of them, so I'm actually getting two hours at the end of the day to slack off a bit with only one to watch.

I act in the best interests of my own children in the choices I make, but it's like the whole bathing with your kids thing -- people have VERY different opinions on what's right and what's wrong. I don't think it's our place to judge parenting skills based on our opinions. The most we can do is choose to raise our own kids to the best of our abilities and knowledge, and support others when they try to do the same.

For those that take issue with dc kids' long hours -- I would encourage you to put your money where your mouth is, and offer to NOT charge your parents for the next day they have off, so that they can keep their little one home and spend time with him or her.
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Old 03-23-2011, 08:52 AM
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I TOTALLY agree! Honestly, in many cultures through history, parents have had to entrust their children to another caregiver for long days and as long as everyone involved is acting in the best interest of the child, we've done just fine.
What culture would be comparable to ours? What culture has money exchanged, laws in place to govern the care, consequences both legally and financially should harm come the child's way.... taxes on the income... unanounced inspections, fire codes, finacial subsidies direclty related to care from government, the childrens parents don't know each other... what one family makes in their living doesn't affect the livlihood of any of the other children in the group.... etc etc etc.
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Old 03-23-2011, 09:32 AM
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I was talking to one of my good friends who is Chinese and grew up in china. He said to me I am very sadden by American ways when it comes to child care. I asked him to explain.

He said that in china that both of his parents worked very long hours, but he was always taken care of by a family member. In fact, he said that he does not recall anyone that he knows ever not being raised by their grandma/pa or an aunt. He was not even sure if he could recall a DC in the area where he grew up.

He said it is the way of life over there. That when you have children, your parents are to help you raise them. He said of course it's different here, because is China most families all live together for their entire life. Let’s not even start on the politics….lol He then told me that he went to school for about 9-10 hours per day and then came home to his parents who ate dinner with them, homework and then off to bed. He does not recall a ton of face time with them, but he was given most of support and guidance from his grandma and grandpa.

He told me that he will never have a child here in America if he could not have someone in his family (which he doesn't) or the wife's family help in raising the child. He just could not believe that DC offers care for children so many hours away from parents, at such a young age. He said why would I have a child so that a stranger could raise them, which are not fair to the child.

Apples and oranges, maybe, but I have to agree with him. I just don’t understand why a family would choose to work long hours so that they can have their house paid for, their cars pair for and etc, yet let a perfect stranger raise their child. I get that everyone has different goals in life and the path that one chooses in life is not wrong because it is not the norm, or is not what I would choose.

In the end, no matter what we do, we have to have a path in life and we have to travel down it the way we set fit. While some may feel it is necessary to be there for their child for the first 5 or so years of their life and help build a strong relationship with a strong foundation of who they are as a person, others may feel it is not necessary. In the end what matters is not how we raised them, is that we raise a good citizen and leader in the process of it all.
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Old 03-23-2011, 10:02 AM
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What culture would be comparable to ours? What culture has money exchanged, laws in place to govern the care, consequences both legally and financially should harm come the child's way.... taxes on the income... unanounced inspections, fire codes, finacial subsidies direclty related to care from government, the childrens parents don't know each other... what one family makes in their living doesn't affect the livlihood of any of the other children in the group.... etc etc etc.
I agree our system is unique in that daycare is big business, instead of relatives or close friends taking care of the kids, but what difference does it make in the actual care?

FTR, for my own kids, I feel it's incredibly important to spend as much time with them, whether it's quality time or not. I would never leave my kids in someone else's care for 60 hours a week. BUT, I don't think I should be pushing my opinion on anyone else (unless they ask ), in either my personal or professional life.
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Old 03-23-2011, 10:18 AM
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He then told me that he went to school for about 9-10 hours per day and then came home to his parents who ate dinner with them, homework and then off to bed. He does not recall a ton of face time with them, but he was given most of support and guidance from his grandma and grandpa.

I just don’t understand why a family would choose to work long hours so that they can have their house paid for, their cars pair for and etc, yet let a perfect stranger raise their child. I get that everyone has different goals in life and the path that one chooses in life is not wrong because it is not the norm, or is not what I would choose.




1st part:
So he's saddened by Child Care in America....but THIS is absolutely no different than what we have here....except that it was "school" and then a very limited amount of time with parents. Not sure how that is any different?

2nd part: WHY do you assume that all parents who work long hours do it for a house/car/luxury of some sort? What about the single Mom who works two jobs to pay RENT and rides the bus, which adds to commute time? Not every, or even most, parents who work long hours do it for extravagances, they do it to meet basic needs.
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Old 03-23-2011, 10:19 AM
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I agree our system is unique in that daycare is big business, instead of relatives or close friends taking care of the kids, but what difference does it make in the actual care?

FTR, for my own kids, I feel it's incredibly important to spend as much time with them, whether it's quality time or not. I would never leave my kids in someone else's care for 60 hours a week. BUT, I don't think I should be pushing my opinion on anyone else (unless they ask ), in either my personal or professional life.
I see both ends of this argument clearly. I have a child in care who is here for 10+ hours per day every day and gets very little face time with parents. I often see the dcm and dcd up town on weekends and they say they needed a break so they got a babysitter...?!?! The child is a great kid here and I have no issues with the child whatsoever (I often wish the child could have more quality time with the parents and feel they are truely missing out )

.....and then I have the child who comes to care part time ONLY when mom cannot arrange her schedule or the dad's to be available for the child. This mom spends soooo much time interacting and playing with her child that he cannot funtion while he is here without me having to constantly interact with him. He has no self-help skills and thinks everything should involve an adult. This child drives me crazy with the constant need for one on one attention that I often find myself a bit relieved on the days he is not scheduled.

So which is better? The long days with little parent time or the short days with so much parent time that it makes the time here tough?
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Old 03-23-2011, 10:26 AM
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I did not read all of the posts so forgive me if I repeat something that has been said.

I am not understanding why someone who has to work longer hours is a bad parent???? If that is the biggest problem some of you have with your parents be thankful for that. I have parents that are drunks and do drugs, parents that have had their children taken away from them because of their lifestyles. To me that is a bad parent, not someone who works longer hours to provide the best life for their child. Yes the best life includes spending time with their children, but also food, shelter, clothes, college the list goes on and on. Children are expensive and not everyones circumstances are the same, not everyone has family living around them to help out with their kids, not everyone has a spouse to drop off at different times.

If the parents are working for those 11 to 12 hours and not doing personal errands I think its a big difference. I do not agree with one parent I have who gets off at 2:20 everyday but doesnt pick up til 5:30, IMO that is sad because she isnt doing once in awhile it is everyday that she misses 3 hours with her child, but I wouldnt say she shouldnt have become a parent I would say she is young and doesnt understand what she is missing by doing that, I know she loves her child and she is a good mom.

I am finishing my nursing degree and will have to work 12 hour shifts and not see my kids as much on those days but that sure as hell doesnt make me less of a mother as some of you are saying and it sure as hell doesnt mean I shouldnt have had my children which has also been said here. I have dreams of my own and now that my children are getting a bit older its time for me to go after my dreams too and show them that you can have it all and just because I have those dreams does not mean that I should have never had my children. I will make the most of my time with them and deprive myself of sleep and other things just to make sure that I am around them, which could be very well what some of the parents do that work 12 hours there ARE exceptions to every rule. If you lump all parents who work long hours all together in the "bad" parent, you could be doing yourself a dis-service by missing out on some great people and their kids.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
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Old 03-23-2011, 10:28 AM
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He then told me that he went to school for about 9-10 hours per day and then came home to his parents who ate dinner with them, homework and then off to bed. He does not recall a ton of face time with them, but he was given most of support and guidance from his grandma and grandpa.

I just don’t understand why a family would choose to work long hours so that they can have their house paid for, their cars pair for and etc, yet let a perfect stranger raise their child. I get that everyone has different goals in life and the path that one chooses in life is not wrong because it is not the norm, or is not what I would choose.




1st part:
So he's saddened by Child Care in America....but THIS is absolutely no different than what we have here....except that it was "school" and then a very limited amount of time with parents. Not sure how that is any different?

2nd part: WHY do you assume that all parents who work long hours do it for a house/car/luxury of some sort? What about the single Mom who works two jobs to pay RENT and rides the bus, which adds to commute time? Not every, or even most, parents who work long hours do it for extravagances, they do it to meet basic needs.
can I ask you a question? Have you ever been a single parent?
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Old 03-23-2011, 10:31 AM
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Comparing America to China is not a fair comparison....if I remember correctly, they are only allowed 1 child....and if they have 2, well then, ever seen the living conditions of many of the population of China the horror stories of young children working long hours for pennies a day.....no comparison at all.
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Old 03-23-2011, 10:35 AM
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Comparing America to China is not a fair comparison....if I remember correctly, they are only allowed 1 child....and if they have 2, well then, ever seen the living conditions of many of the population of China the horror stories of young children working long hours for pennies a day.....no comparison at all.
this is why I said apples to oranges.... I think we are all getting of the path of what the subject is here, which is face time with parents.

like I said before, everyone has their rights to choose how to raise their child and there really is no wrong or right way is there?

Working long hours does not make you a bad parent, I don't ever recall reading that any where??
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Old 03-23-2011, 10:46 AM
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I don't think it’s unfair to state that, I know "life happens" and the tough gets going when the going gets tough. I just don't offer services to those families anymore, as I don't think it is fair to the child.
I do feel that adults should be the one to have to make sacrifices. Why is it necessary for every family to have to keep up with the Jones’s?

I was once a single parent with two kids for a long length of time and I had to do what I had to do to make ends meet. But I did not let that stop me from coaching their soccer teams, spending quality time with them outside of work and so forth. I went without a lot of stuff and lived my life for my children. I could have worked the 45 hour work week plus commute time, as I lived in Orange County and that is commute He!!....

But it was not my children's fault and therefore I gave up everything I could that would help better their lives. I sold my fancy car and bought a used one, I kept healthy so I could wear the same clothes for 10years.. I did everything in my power to make sure that dad and I were the one's raising them. When they were at dad's I worked more hours, worked weekends or odd jobs to make ends meet.

Parents don't stop to think about who is really affected and just except that working 12+ hour days as their way of life.......
I think that it is selfish and sad............ I know that if I could do this with two young kids as a single mom and finishing school at the same time that ANYONE could do it too.

If only parents realized that their kids really only want time with their mom/dad to be held, read to, played with, sang to or just be near them, parents would not be killing themself to work many hours to buy all of the uncessary things...........
I completely understand your point and I couldn't agree more...

I just want to add...I've had more than one client who chose to have 2nd and 3rd children, knowing full well that they only had 2 hours per day with the first.

Life didn't just happen, they made a choice to have more children when they only had very limited time with the first. It's not fair to those kids.
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Old 03-23-2011, 11:05 AM
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True...... everything is a choice, but then there are also those special circumstances as well, exceptopm to the rule...

The reason I say this, is because I became a parent at the age of 19, while still in college. My best friend and her boyfriend had a baby during our first year of college. He was a dead beat dad and took off. During this time, my best friend and I lived together (friends for several years) and one of the most awful devastating things one could think of happened, the mom was killed in a car accident. This is a very long story, but to cut to the point, I chose to step up and raise the child. I tried for years to find the father, but never did. My friend had no family to help raise the baby, as she was thrown from one foster famiy to the next when growing up and I had no clue who her real parents were.. The baby was was 9 months when she passed. For years I struggled to give this child (MY CHILD) a life that he deserved. I dropped out of school, and worked my tail end off, I had to receive government assistance, I had to go without a lot of things, but one thing I knew for sure that my child was NEVER ever going to go without ME.

After years of trying to find any family to help care for him everything failed. Finally when my son turned 6 I went to court to request the right to adopt him. On May 16, 2000, I fully and legally adopted my son. This subject hits so close to home for me and has brought me to tears just having to type this.
My son is now 15 and he tells me all the time, do you remember when you used to get the boxes from the subway by our old house so that we could have stuff to play with. My son 15 now builds these same forts and castles with his little brother age 3.5. Also, my son has made presidents honor every year, plays every sport known to man and has been invited to meet the president of the United States this summer by the National Young Leaders Conference. I am still in college and often have to ask him for help with my math…lol In the end, there is NO greater feeling knowing that I helped pave this path for my son, not a DC provider, not a stranger, ME, a college drop out, who used to clean toilets at the gas station, me who had nothing to give but ME…….
While this is a rare occasion, life sometimes does happen.... and as I say this, there is an exception for every rule....well unless you’re Jessica Tata...
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Old 03-23-2011, 11:07 AM
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[b]2nd part: WHY do you assume that all parents who work long hours do it for a house/car/luxury of some sort? What about the single Mom who works two jobs to pay RENT and rides the bus, which adds to commute time? Not every, or even most, parents who work long hours do it for extravagances, they do it to meet basic needs.
You make an interesting point in that a providers perspective is probably based on their experiences with the clients that they have dealt with. I've encoutered the major hours parents only 2 times and neither of them were forced to leave the kids in care for extended time frames:

1. During the interview process I learn that Dad works three 12 hour shifts...Friday, Saturday and Sunday. They need care because, as Dad said..."I don't like to care for children." Nice. I did not accept them in to care.

2. Mom worked .4 or 4 shifts in two weeks, at least 2 of those shifts were on the weekend and she went to class for 2 hours, two times per week. The kids were here 55 hours per week. One time she told me she was late to pick them up because she got off work 30 minutes early so she went home to watch TV and fell asleep. She didn't work or go to school for two consecutive summers and guess what...still had kids in care for the full 55 hours per week. Oh, one of those children was a 12 week old. I eventually terminated for a variety of reasons, including late payments, late pick-ups, and behavioral problems. When I terminated the family, Mom was irrate and informed me that I was taking her children from "the only stability they have ever known." Which was true, and after 5 years of watching those kids I felt horrible about it. But, it isn't a providers job to supply stability. It's a parents.

So, I would agree that MOST parent, at least in my experience want to spend time with their kids. However, in my experience, the ones who bring their kids for outrageous hours every single week, do it by choice.

I've had two single Mom's, neither of them brought their kids to me more than 45 hours per week. One of them never took lunch and they both brought work home ALOT. But they prized their time with their kids and did whatever they could to protect it. To be honest, in my experience, single Mom's work even harder than most to make time for their children.
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Old 03-23-2011, 11:21 AM
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can I ask you a question? Have you ever been a single parent?
I'm not sure why it would matter, but yes, I have been. I became a parent at the age of 19. I was the Mom who worked two jobs and rode the bus to and from work. I didn't have a car. I lived in a modest apartment. I wore old clothes. But I provided for my child. My Mom babysat for me. And I paid her. I was lucky at the time to have her to do that for me, otherwise he would have been in daycare for those LONG hours that I HAD to work. I did not want government assistance, I wanted to be the one to provide for him - after all, as it has been said it was my CHOICE to have a child (even though it was an accidental pregnancy I still made the CHOICE to have him) The dad was never in his life and I never recieved a penny from him.....another reason why I had to work long hours and couldn't have the other parent provide child care or pick up/drop off from child care so he would have to be there less hours.

Even working those long hours, I did not have the money to buy the best of the best. I was able to provide basic needs for my son. I worked my way up, and when I married and had my second child I ended up starting my child care program, because the only child care I could find was inadequate to say the least......
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Old 03-23-2011, 11:24 AM
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True...... everything is a choice, but then there are also those special circumstances as well, exceptopm to the rule...

The reason I say this, is because I became a parent at the age of 19, while still in college. My best friend and her boyfriend had a baby during our first year of college. He was a dead beat dad and took off. During this time, my best friend and I lived together (friends for several years) and one of the most awful devastating things one could think of happened, the mom was killed in a car accident. This is a very long story, but to cut to the point, I chose to step up and raise the child. I tried for years to find the father, but never did. My friend had no family to help raise the baby, as she was thrown from one foster famiy to the next when growing up and I had no clue who her real parents were.. The baby was was 9 months when she passed. For years I struggled to give this child (MY CHILD) a life that he deserved. I dropped out of school, and worked my tail end off, I had to receive government assistance, I had to go without a lot of things, but one thing I knew for sure that my child was NEVER ever going to go without ME.

After years of trying to find any family to help care for him everything failed. Finally when my son turned 6 I went to court to request the right to adopt him. On May 16, 2000, I fully and legally adopted my son. This subject hits so close to home for me and has brought me to tears just having to type this.
My son is now 15 and he tells me all the time, do you remember when you used to get the boxes from the subway by our old house so that we could have stuff to play with. My son 15 now builds these same forts and castles with his little brother age 3.5. Also, my son has made presidents honor every year, plays every sport known to man and has been invited to meet the president of the United States this summer by the National Young Leaders Conference. I am still in college and often have to ask him for help with my math…lol In the end, there is NO greater feeling knowing that I helped pave this path for my son, not a DC provider, not a stranger, ME, a college drop out, who used to clean toilets at the gas station, me who had nothing to give but ME…….
While this is a rare occasion, life sometimes does happen.... and as I say this, there is an exception for every rule....well unless you’re Jessica Tata...
This is a sad and in the end a wonderful story, but I am wondering how it applies to this discussion? No offense intended, I just really don't see what this has to do with a parent needing 11 hours of daycare.
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Old 03-23-2011, 11:26 AM
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12 hours is way too many hours for any child to be in child care of any age. With that being said, I do understand that parents need to work. But I really think that parents should have thought about that before having kids. Why have a child so someone else can raise your child? I get needing to work, location, and so on, but I think that it is sad that the child knows the provider more than their own parent.
Bolded part I think is unfair...but thats just my opinion

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True...... everything is a choice, but then there are also those special circumstances as well, exceptopm to the rule...

The reason I say this, is because I became a parent at the age of 19, while still in college. My best friend and her boyfriend had a baby during our first year of college. He was a dead beat dad and took off. During this time, my best friend and I lived together (friends for several years) and one of the most awful devastating things one could think of happened, the mom was killed in a car accident. This is a very long story, but to cut to the point, I chose to step up and raise the child. I tried for years to find the father, but never did. My friend had no family to help raise the baby, as she was thrown from one foster famiy to the next when growing up and I had no clue who her real parents were.. The baby was was 9 months when she passed. For years I struggled to give this child (MY CHILD) a life that he deserved. I dropped out of school, and worked my tail end off, I had to receive government assistance, I had to go without a lot of things, but one thing I knew for sure that my child was NEVER ever going to go without ME.

After years of trying to find any family to help care for him everything failed. Finally when my son turned 6 I went to court to request the right to adopt him. On May 16, 2000, I fully and legally adopted my son. This subject hits so close to home for me and has brought me to tears just having to type this.
My son is now 15 and he tells me all the time, do you remember when you used to get the boxes from the subway by our old house so that we could have stuff to play with. My son 15 now builds these same forts and castles with his little brother age 3.5. Also, my son has made presidents honor every year, plays every sport known to man and has been invited to meet the president of the United States this summer by the National Young Leaders Conference. I am still in college and often have to ask him for help with my math…lol In the end, there is NO greater feeling knowing that I helped pave this path for my son, not a DC provider, not a stranger, ME, a college drop out, who used to clean toilets at the gas station, me who had nothing to give but ME…….
While this is a rare occasion, life sometimes does happen.... and as I say this, there is an exception for every rule....well unless you’re Jessica Tata...
I think its a wonderful thing that you have done

I have a question though and Im curious and mean no disrespect, what if you HAD worked 12 hours a day even with going without things and state assistance, no help from family and your daycare provider looked at you with the thought of its sad she is away from him for so long she should have thought about that before she raised him? I am taking some of your comments in that way, like the first quote. If you had to work 12 hours to just keep food on the table, give him clothes, and shelter you would do that, but to have someone judge you because you would have to work more than a person with a spouse or whatever the case may be would probably be pretty upsetting and I guess I feel like if a parent were reading this, someone who has to work those 12 hours, I think they would feel pretty upset and hurt by some of the comments.
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Old 03-23-2011, 11:28 AM
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Here's a story for you. I am in my 30s and have a younger sister in her mid-20s. My mother was a single mother who had worked as a secretary and a teacher and always planned tosomeday be a SHM. Life changed and she found herself single with 2 young daughters. My sister and I were in daycare from 7:30-6:00 every day. This was considered so extreme that we had to change daycares to find one that was open enough hours to cover this, and my mom's family gave her a ton of grief for putting us in daycare for so long each day. No one I knew went to daycare nearly as long as I did. We went to a wonderful provider who offered a fabulous DAP program and full preschool program-even 20 some years ago. (My former provider is still an important part of my life now.)

My mom went back to school at night and earned her MBA. Besides being in daycare so long each day, we also had a babysitter 2 nights/week when my mom had class. She is still single, owns a great home/car, and is now an executive at a local hospital. I am really proud of her and all that she has accomplished.

So, how did we turn out? Well, we are fine. We both have a great relationship with our mom. We did great in school and have great jobs, etc. I have children but my sister does not yet.

So, what does that show? Well, nothing really. My mom sincerely feels like she missed out on a lot when we were kids. She admits that, at the time, she felt our provider did a better job caring for us than she did. She says that, for that reason, she never felt guilty sending us on days she took off etc. so that she could catch up on school work. She says that she did what she had to do at the time, and that she doesn't regret it or feel guilty (which she shouldn't) but that she does wish she had more time with us. She does spend a LOT of time with my sons and will play games, etc. with them that she never did with us, but I think a lot of grandparents do that.

The funniest thing, if you ask me, is that by today's standards I think we were in daycare for a reasonable and average amount of time. I think it's funny that 10 hours a day has gone from "so extreme" to common in the last 20 years or so. All of my dcks are here for 10 hours a day now.

Anyway, I don't realy have a point here, I just wanted to recap this situation 20 years later as my sister and I are adults now. We had little face time with our mom, we had a great provider, we turned out well-that's really my point. The rest are just details that show both sides of the story.

I still don't think that MOST parents should need 12 hours a day/5 days per week childcare. I know there are exceptions to the rule, but I don't think it's common to have to work really long days, every day of the week, with a long commute, with no one else to provide care to the child so he/she doesn't have to be in daycare so long. SOME people are single parents, SOME work long shifts (but not always 5 days/week), SOME have 2 parents working long hours, SOME have long commutes, but not MANY have ALL of these things. I still think it's a long time in daycare.

For those of you who do work long shifts, it is hard work. I've been there. For those of you who do work long shifts and still spend a lot of face time with your children-congrats to you. I know when I worked long days, I didn't get to do that. I left before they were awake in the morning, I picked them up at 5:00, got them home by 5:30, fed them, gave them a quick bath and a story, and put them to bed about 7:00-7:30. They needed the sleep to do it all again the next day. I hated it, but I only had to do it 3 days/week so that I could spend the other 4 days with them, so it was worth it to me. I, personally, probably would have felt differently if I had to do it every day and would have had to come up with a different solution to see my children more. That's just me, though.

I don't think any of us are saying that you can NEVER have time with your children and work long days. I don't think we are saying that you can't work a lot of hours and NEVER be a good parent. I don't think we are saying that ALL parents who work long hours are wanting to be away from their children (I really don't think any parent really WANTS to be away from their child-although sometimes it seems like it so there are exceptions to that as well. I think MOST parents want to be with their children.) And I really don't think any of us are saying that we think parents don't have to work and could sacrifice to be at home with their children. If that were the case, I don't think we'd be providers-we'd just stay home. And, if that were the case, we would surely be wishing ourselves out of a job. What we are saying is that, while we understand that it can be necessary in SOME circumstances, the bottom line is that 60 hours/week is a lot of time in daycare. Okay, off my soapbox and back to my lovely children that are ALL here at least 50 hours/week-including my own.
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Old 03-23-2011, 11:32 AM
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I agree our system is unique in that daycare is big business, instead of relatives or close friends taking care of the kids, but what difference does it make in the actual care?
There's a lot of difference. The primary one is supervision and who does the supervision.

There's a fundamental understanding that children can and will get hurt and even die. The care of the children is done in large part by other children... primarily female children.

Watch the movie "Babies" with particular attention to the Mongolian and Namibia babies. Watch the Duggars first couple of seasons and see who really takes care of the kids. Study up on the FLDS and Yearning for Zion ranch and see who really takes care of the kids.

The laws we have in place are rooted in safety with the understanding that WE must make sure there are no accidents.

I have a newborn in my house. I have to check on him every few minutes. Some states you have to be in the same room with them at all times. This same baby goes home and at night sleeps by himself without anyone up watching him sleep for hours and hours on end. There doesn't even have to be an adult UP ... the adults can be sleeping when he is in the hosue.

The four dollars an hour I receive for him makes me have a much higher level of accountability for his safety. If he were with family they wouldn't be expected to stay awake the entire time he is with them. They could nap every day at nap time.

I can't allow him to sleep in a swing. If I were in California I wouldn't be allowed to HAVE a swing for my day care. The minute the child walks out the door the parents can use whatever "confinement" equipment they want on the SAME baby.

If I had only my tribe here with me... my family and extended family... the kids who are over two would have been OUTSIDE all morning this morning playing in my very safe back yard... WITHOUT an adult... just like I did when I was growing up. My two dogs would have been out there with them and I wouldn't have had to proove to anyone that I got the dogs their "shots" or their physical. I wouldn't have taken them for a walk and they could have gotten drinks out of my garden house. I could have put some sandwhiches on a paper towel and let them have at it.

There's NO comparison to the lack of liability one has taking care of kids communally then what we have. I have a child and he wasn't raised with one one hundredths of the rules I have to abide by with my day care kids. He spent HOURS running thru my house going from room to room without any adults in the same room. If he acted up I could use spanking or confinement as a punishment. If I wanted my seven year old neice to carry him around and change his diapers.. I could... I didn't have to follow a food program with him... he could go outside and play whenever he wanted after the age of three.... he could sleep when he wanted.. watch TV when he wanted... do pretty much whatever he wanted within the small framework of reasonable safety a parent has to oblige.

I could go on forever but it DOES make a difference to the child to be with people who DON'T have to follow the same safety rules WE do because there are specific laws in place to govern safety, how we conduct ourselves, what we use in their care, and WHO can actually care for the kids.

There's NO comparison between the life these kids have at home and the life they live here. They NEED to be HOME with their FAMILY. They NEED to have AWAKE time with thier PARENTS.
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Old 03-23-2011, 11:36 AM
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I would never judge ANYONE, I just don't agree with it. Like I said everyone has to do what they have to do. When the going gets tough, the tough gets going. I would never voice my opinion to a parent and that's all it is MY OPINION... I am allowed to have my own opinion, but it does not make it right or wrong.

Also, I hope that you realize that I was leaning more towards those families that CHOOSE to work the long hours, not that HAVE to work the long hours.
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Old 03-23-2011, 11:44 AM
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Here's a story for you. I am in my 30s and have a younger sister in her mid-20s. My mother was a single mother who had worked as a secretary and a teacher and always planned tosomeday be a SHM. Life changed and she found herself single with 2 young daughters. My sister and I were in daycare from 7:30-6:00 every day. This was considered so extreme that we had to change daycares to find one that was open enough hours to cover this, and my mom's family gave her a ton of grief for putting us in daycare for so long each day. No one I knew went to daycare nearly as long as I did. We went to a wonderful provider who offered a fabulous DAP program and full preschool program-even 20 some years ago. (My former provider is still an important part of my life now.)

My mom went back to school at night and earned her MBA. Besides being in daycare so long each day, we also had a babysitter 2 nights/week when my mom had class. She is still single, owns a great home/car, and is now an executive at a local hospital. I am really proud of her and all that she has accomplished.

So, how did we turn out? Well, we are fine. We both have a great relationship with our mom. We did great in school and have great jobs, etc. I have children but my sister does not yet.

So, what does that show? Well, nothing really. My mom sincerely feels like she missed out on a lot when we were kids. She admits that, at the time, she felt our provider did a better job caring for us than she did. She says that, for that reason, she never felt guilty sending us on days she took off etc. so that she could catch up on school work. She says that she did what she had to do at the time, and that she doesn't regret it or feel guilty (which she shouldn't) but that she does wish she had more time with us. She does spend a LOT of time with my sons and will play games, etc. with them that she never did with us, but I think a lot of grandparents do that.

The funniest thing, if you ask me, is that by today's standards I think we were in daycare for a reasonable and average amount of time. I think it's funny that 10 hours a day has gone from "so extreme" to common in the last 20 years or so. All of my dcks are here for 10 hours a day now.

Anyway, I don't realy have a point here, I just wanted to recap this situation 20 years later as my sister and I are adults now. We had little face time with our mom, we had a great provider, we turned out well-that's really my point. The rest are just details that show both sides of the story.

I still don't think that MOST parents should need 12 hours a day/5 days per week childcare. I know there are exceptions to the rule, but I don't think it's common to have to work really long days, every day of the week, with a long commute, with no one else to provide care to the child so he/she doesn't have to be in daycare so long. SOME people are single parents, SOME work long shifts (but not always 5 days/week), SOME have 2 parents working long hours, SOME have long commutes, but not MANY have ALL of these things. I still think it's a long time in daycare.

For those of you who do work long shifts, it is hard work. I've been there. For those of you who do work long shifts and still spend a lot of face time with your children-congrats to you. I know when I worked long days, I didn't get to do that. I left before they were awake in the morning, I picked them up at 5:00, got them home by 5:30, fed them, gave them a quick bath and a story, and put them to bed about 7:00-7:30. They needed the sleep to do it all again the next day. I hated it, but I only had to do it 3 days/week so that I could spend the other 4 days with them, so it was worth it to me. I, personally, probably would have felt differently if I had to do it every day and would have had to come up with a different solution to see my children more. That's just me, though.

I don't think any of us are saying that you can NEVER have time with your children and work long days. I don't think we are saying that you can't work a lot of hours and NEVER be a good parent. I don't think we are saying that ALL parents who work long hours are wanting to be away from their children (I really don't think any parent really WANTS to be away from their child-although sometimes it seems like it so there are exceptions to that as well. I think MOST parents want to be with their children.) And I really don't think any of us are saying that we think parents don't have to work and could sacrifice to be at home with their children. If that were the case, I don't think we'd be providers-we'd just stay home. And, if that were the case, we would surely be wishing ourselves out of a job. What we are saying is that, while we understand that it can be necessary in SOME circumstances, the bottom line is that 60 hours/week is a lot of time in daycare. Okay, off my soapbox and back to my lovely children that are ALL here at least 50 hours/week-including my own.

I don't think any of us are saying that you can NEVER have time with your children and work long days. I don't think we are saying that you can't work a lot of hours and NEVER be a good parent. I don't think we are saying that ALL parents who work long hours are wanting to be away from their children (I really don't think any parent really WANTS to be away from their child-although sometimes it seems like it so there are exceptions to that as well. I think MOST parents want to be with their children.) And I really don't think any of us are saying that we think parents don't have to work and could sacrifice to be at home with their children. If that were the case, I don't think we'd be providers-we'd just stay home. And, if that were the case, we would surely be wishing ourselves out of a job. What we are saying is that, while we understand that it can be necessary in SOME circumstances, the bottom line is that 60 hours/week is a lot of time in daycare. Okay, off my soapbox and back to my lovely children that are ALL here at least 50 hours/week-including my own.


This!!!! Well said and 100% agree...
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Old 03-23-2011, 11:45 AM
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I would never judge ANYONE, I just don't agree with it. Like I said everyone has to do what they have to do. When the going gets tough, the tough gets going. I would never voice my opinion to a parent and that's all it is MY OPINION... I am allowed to have my own opinion, but it does not make it right or wrong.

Also, I hope that you realize that I was leaning more towards those families that CHOOSE to work the long hours, not that HAVE to work the long hours.
I didnt say you could not have your opinion I was simply asking a question that if you HAD to work those hours. It just seems that on here lately and I do not mean YOU when I say this, it is very judgemental lately. I keep seeing on this thread its sad, its bad, parents should have thought about before they had kids, not everyone that works 12 hours is doing it for cars, houses and such they are doing it to survive and I FEEL that by lumping everyone together in the they do it for cars, house category its unfair, which is what I think most people do on here ( and I will include myself) but now that I am going back to work outside the home and will have a nanny watch my kids in the summer I am starting to see things from the other side and I would be upset if my nanny or daycare provider thought I was less because I HAD to work 12 hours.

The orginal post didnt say anything about if she knew the persons circumstance it only said she wanted to email them back and let them know she thought it was a long day, whos to say that person wasnt a single mom, who HAD to not so that she could buy new clothes and cars but because she needed to put food on the table, that is judgemental and that is my OPINION
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Old 03-23-2011, 11:46 AM
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This is a sad and in the end a wonderful story, but I am wondering how it applies to this discussion? No offense intended, I just really don't see what this has to do with a parent needing 11 hours of daycare.
I am just saying that not every single parent HAS to work long hours as stated...
Not every single mom has to work two jobs.
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Old 03-23-2011, 11:55 AM
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I am just saying that not every single parent HAS to work long hours as stated...
Not every single mom has to work two jobs.
You're right. Not every single parent HAS to work long hours. But, many prefer to not use government assistance.....like me. I made a CHOICE to have my child, so I owned the responsibility of caring for and providing for him. (disclaimer: I do not have a problem with people who NEED assistance recieving it, but when an able-bodied person relies on it when they could get a job, I do have a problem with it)

So, basically what has been said by you is, parents should think about such issues before they make the CHOICE to have children so that their kids don't have to be in daycare too many hours. But it's okay if they make the CHOICE to have those kids anyway, to go ahead and let the Gov. provide for them so they don't have to be in daycare too many hours? I'm not sure if that's what you are implying or not, so please, do clarify for me. (and I am not referring to your situation with your son....I think it was very noble of you to do what you did)
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Old 03-23-2011, 12:35 PM
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You're right. Not every single parent HAS to work long hours. But, many prefer to not use government assistance.....like me. I made a CHOICE to have my child, so I owned the responsibility of caring for and providing for him. (disclaimer: I do not have a problem with people who NEED assistance recieving it, but when an able-bodied person relies on it when they could get a job, I do have a problem with it)

So, basically what has been said by you is, parents should think about such issues before they make the CHOICE to have children so that their kids don't have to be in daycare too many hours. But it's okay if they make the CHOICE to have those kids anyway, to go ahead and let the Gov. provide for them so they don't have to be in daycare too many hours? I'm not sure if that's what you are implying or not, so please, do clarify for me. (and I am not referring to your situation with your son....I think it was very noble of you to do what you did)
Maybe having English as a second language, I am not always best at writing. I do try my best.
I guess I don't really know how to explain my point, as I don't know what to say to NOT offend someone.

Everyone has a choice. to be a parent at 19 or at 39. There is not right or wrong time. It’s all about your path and what you chose for your family. But I do know this. If I had to go back and do it all over again, I wish that I was older when I had taken on the responsibility. I have no regrets, but I do always wonder what I could have made of myself if I finished college and started my career. I am now happily married and have more than I know what to do with, but this has nothing to do with this topic.

I had government assistance, you had your mom. I didn't have a mother to help me in the US. I had me. NO, I am not saying have kids so the gov. can provide for them. But if it weren't for our government, (yes I am an American citizen) I would have not been able to raise my child and this is what I wanted. Just as your or other's chose differently and ask for help from mom or DC providers. If I had a mom to help me back then, my mom would have helped, but I didn't. I had two choices, work super long days and never see my son and not get any help of any kind, rely on others to raise my child. Or I could work shorter days, go to school one day a week, as for temporary gov. help and I could raise my child. I chose #2............does not make me a better parent than anyone, it was just my choice.



I do feel it is said that there are SOME people who chose to work than to be with their kids.
In fact while I think of it, I have one family that has 2 kids. Only one is in my care, because I don't offer infant care. Mom and dad are both self employed, they live in one of the nicest neighborhoods around. They drive fancy cars and buy fancy clothes. Even though the mom only goes to work 3 days a week at her business she owns, her son is here every day from 8-5:30. This is what makes me sad.................
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Old 03-23-2011, 12:52 PM
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I am just saying that not every single parent HAS to work long hours as stated...
Not every single mom has to work two jobs.
yeah, they can just get on welfare instead and then sit up on their high horse waving their food stamp card around while saying, "at least my child had ME!"
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Old 03-23-2011, 12:56 PM
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yeah, they can just get on welfare instead and then sit up on their high horse waving their food stamp card around while saying, "at least my child had ME!"
Yes there are low life’s out there who abuse the system, and there are people like ME who used the system to get somewhere in life. I have no respect for the person that works at 7-11, lives on welfare and has no plans to move out of their situation or are doing anything to get them self out of the situation.

I think that was a very unfair statement you made.

With that being said, I think we just need to realize that everyone’s life is like a puzzle piece. No two are ever alike, but somehow we all fit together. No one will ever have the same life as another and therefore we can sit here all day debating back and forth comparing apples to oranges and so forth.
I think I've stated my opinion way too much here and see it doesn't matter anyways, we all have different views. No one is right or wrong for this.
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Old 03-23-2011, 01:10 PM
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Yes there are low lifes out there who abuse the system, and there are people like ME who used the system to get some where in life.

I think that was a very unfair statement you made.
either way you slice it, the system was getting used. i'm sorry, but once you said you got govt. assistance so you could be with your child, your whole opinion about parents being selfish by working long days went to hell in a handbasket.

i didn't have a mom to help either. not having a mom to help doesn't mean you default to welfare. it does mean for many people that you default to DAYCARE. you said yourself you wonder what your life would be if you had gone to college and had a career, etc. i don't have to wonder. yes, my kids went to daycare, but i still saw them every. single. day. and put them to bed every night, etc. it was hard, but guess what? my oldest is 6 years old and is lying here on my shoulder with my youngest lying on her lap with their dog sprawled out on top of both of them. point being - i made a SACRIFICE of time when they were younger so i didn't have to work a crappy job the rest of my life, get govt. assistance, and/or wonder what my life would be like had i gone to college. i sacrificed time THEN so i could have THIS right NOW. my kids won't remember not having money or long days in daycare and i won't have to look back and wonder what if. that beats the hell out of a childhood of poverty and an middle aged woman with unmet goals.
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Old 03-23-2011, 01:11 PM
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so can I ask what gov. asst is for then?
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Old 03-23-2011, 01:14 PM
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it is to ASSIST, not to SUPPORT or REPLACE.

it is to be used ALONG WITH, not INSTEAD OF.
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Old 03-23-2011, 01:15 PM
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I totally get people's low opinions of those who are on assistance because of the people who abuse it, but PLEASE don't generalize this to everyone!

My family has had the worst three years where we have not been able to pay our bills. We had to move because we were losing our home. And no, we're NOT low-lifes! We got struck down with the economy and bad timing on the housing market. We're only just now getting back on our feet and I pray to God that that never happens again.

We had to take some assistance to feed our children and darnit, we didn't want to tell anyone because we knew people would judge us and call us "low-lifes" like qualiT just did! Not okay!

Daycare, I don't see how you upset everyone. It seems to me that when these threads get heated, people don't stop to actually read what people are saying, they just go straight to judgment.

I'm not in the greatest mood today, so maybe I'm taking things a little too personally, but when I read statements generalizing people who really need help and heaven forbid, actually accept it, it really makes me mad.
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Old 03-23-2011, 01:18 PM
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the fact of the matter is no matter how we feel about how many hours the child is in our care, or why, its still going to be.

it is what it is.

i have some parents who use my services because they have to, and some because they choose to.

so for me, instead of wasting my energy on worrying about whether its right or wrong, i focus on making sure the child is getting the best possible care they can while they are with me.

i can lay my head down at night and know i did what was right for me, my family, and these kids while they're in my care.

whether or not the parent can do that, is their business, and not my place to judge.

JMO
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Old 03-23-2011, 01:20 PM
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it is to ASSIST, not to SUPPORT or REPLACE.

it is to be used ALONG WITH, not INSTEAD OF.
Exactly what I did and it does not make me a bad parent for choosing it either. You did what you had to do for you and your family just as I had to do for mine.

I didn’t ask to \be a parent at the age of 19, I chose to be one and proud of everything I did along the way, because I did it, not someone else. I guess that makes you a better person for choosing to work longer hours and forgo the assistance and me a low life for accepting the help and physically being there for my child. Our situations are nothing alike. You're children are being raised by YOU always and forever, I am raising a child that his mother can never be here for him and his father didn't want to be. So I don't think you can really compare your life to mine or anyone else’s for that matter.
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Old 03-23-2011, 01:22 PM
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I totally get people's low opinions of those who are on assistance because of the people who abuse it, but PLEASE don't generalize this to everyone!

My family has had the worst three years where we have not been able to pay our bills. We had to move because we were losing our home. And no, we're NOT low-lifes! We got struck down with the economy and bad timing on the housing market. We're only just now getting back on our feet and I pray to God that that never happens again.

We had to take some assistance to feed our children and darnit, we didn't want to tell anyone because we knew people would judge us and call us "low-lifes" like qualiT just did! Not okay!

Daycare, I don't see how you upset everyone. It seems to me that when these threads get heated, people don't stop to actually read what people are saying, they just go straight to judgment.

I'm not in the greatest mood today, so maybe I'm taking things a little too personally, but when I read statements generalizing people who really need help and heaven forbid, actually accept it, it really makes me mad.
Your case is a prime example of a NEED for assistance. Qualitcare was referring to people who get assistance when they don't NEED it, they just don't TRY to find and keep work. Govt. assistance is made for situations like yours, and I am glad that it was there for your family when you NEEDED it. There is a big difference in someone losing their job and needing a helping hand and someone who just doesn't want to work getting it long-term.
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Old 03-23-2011, 01:30 PM
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I totally get people's low opinions of those who are on assistance because of the people who abuse it, but PLEASE don't generalize this to everyone!

My family has had the worst three years where we have not been able to pay our bills. We had to move because we were losing our home. And no, we're NOT low-lifes! We got struck down with the economy and bad timing on the housing market. We're only just now getting back on our feet and I pray to God that that never happens again.

We had to take some assistance to feed our children and darnit, we didn't want to tell anyone because we knew people would judge us and call us "low-lifes" like qualiT just did! Not okay!

Daycare, I don't see how you upset everyone. It seems to me that when these threads get heated, people don't stop to actually read what people are saying, they just go straight to judgment.

I'm not in the greatest mood today, so maybe I'm taking things a little too personally, but when I read statements generalizing people who really need help and heaven forbid, actually accept it, it really makes me mad.
whoa, i didn't say everyone who gets assistance is a "low life." i don't even think that. i received assistance myself at one time! it wasn't cash payments, but still considered assistance.

i do think it's repulsive when someone uses assistance as an alternative to WORKING. there's a difference when someone works and TRIES and even still can't keep afloat and when someone doesn't get a job because they can get assistance INSTEAD. big difference, huge.
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Old 03-23-2011, 01:33 PM
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Your case is a prime example of a NEED for assistance. Qualitcare was referring to people who get assistance when they don't NEED it, they just don't TRY to find and keep work. Govt. assistance is made for situations like yours, and I am glad that it was there for your family when you NEEDED it. There is a big difference in someone losing their job and needing a helping hand and someone who just doesn't want to work getting it long-term.
exactly! and not wanting to work because your child "needs you" isn't a good excuse for getting assistance to stay home IMO.

i just can't believe someone would say "why did they have children" or "why didn't they think about that before getting pregnant" and then turn around and have the nerve to stay they were a "stay at home mom" because they got welfare! just...wow.
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Old 03-23-2011, 01:36 PM
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Who said I didn't work? I just didn't work two jobs so I could go to schOol and be there for my son. Perhaps you missed that.
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Old 03-23-2011, 01:38 PM
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Exactly what I did and it does not make me a bad parent for choosing it either. You did what you had to do for you and your family just as I had to do for mine.

I didn’t ask to \be a parent at the age of 19, I chose to be one and proud of everything I did along the way, because I did it, not someone else. I guess that makes you a better person for choosing to work longer hours and forgo the assistance and me a low life for accepting the help and physically being there for my child. Our situations are nothing alike. You're children are being raised by YOU always and forever, I am raising a child that his mother can never be here for him and his father didn't want to be. So I don't think you can really compare your life to mine or anyone else’s for that matter.
so, his mother died when he was 9 months old and you became his mother. you're not talking about needing to spend each moment with a child that's like 10 years old and just lost both parents.

single mothers work, go to school, work 2 jobs, etc. ALL THE TIME! i just find it truly shocking that you've made the comments about parent's bad choices and lack of planning when they have to work long hours and then turn around and say you stayed at home with your child by using the welfare system. well, if we all quit working and got on welfare then we could all be stay at home mothers - duh!
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Old 03-23-2011, 01:42 PM
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whoa, i didn't say everyone who gets assistance is a "low life." i don't even think that. i received assistance myself at one time! it wasn't cash payments, but still considered assistance.

i do think it's repulsive when someone uses assistance as an alternative to WORKING. there's a difference when someone works and TRIES and even still can't keep afloat and when someone doesn't get a job because they can get assistance INSTEAD. big difference, huge.
I hate it when people abuse the system too. But I hate it even more when people make generalizations about ALL who are on assistance. I haven't gotten involved with threads like this, but whether you meant to or not, you hit a nerve. Thank you for clarifying.
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Old 03-23-2011, 01:44 PM
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If you don't like the choice that I made that's fine. You don't have to agree nor do I.
I think you are taking this way out into left field and not too sure what your trying to prove.
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Old 03-23-2011, 01:47 PM
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Okay, I know this has gotten way off topic, but Daycare, I have to ask, after going back to post #14 and reading this:

I was once a single parent with two kids for a long length of time and I had to do what I had to do to make ends meet. But I did not let that stop me from coaching their soccer teams, spending quality time with them outside of work and so forth. I went without a lot of stuff and lived my life for my children. I could have worked the 45 hour work week plus commute time, as I lived in Orange County and that is commute He!!....


Did you have your second child AFTER taking in your friend's child? And, if so, did you continue to get aid? I ask, because you were the first person in this thread to state that people shouldn't have children if they cannot care for them, which IMO is harshly judgemental of parents, yet you did exactly what you are judging parents for - sans the childcare?
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Old 03-23-2011, 01:53 PM
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I hate it when people abuse the system too. But I hate it even more when people make generalizations about ALL who are on assistance. I haven't gotten involved with threads like this, but whether you meant to or not, you hit a nerve. Thank you for clarifying.
i'm sorry if you misunderstood me to say "all people." i thought it was clear that i was talking about this particular situation where someone is talking about poor parental planning, people who shouldn't have kids they can't take care of, and then saying they were able to "be with and support" their child thanks to the taxpayers. it's a little hypocritical if you ask me.
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Old 03-23-2011, 01:55 PM
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Who said I didn't work? I just didn't work two jobs so I could go to schOol and be there for my son. Perhaps you missed that.
oh, i thought you dropped out of school. hmm. i've obviously missed something.

either way, it's very hypocritical for you to judge parents who work long hours for "poor planning." i would think you of all people who ran into a very unplanned situation would be more realistic.
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Old 03-23-2011, 01:56 PM
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Not everyone on assistance is a low life just like not everyone who works 12 hours is a bad parent who shouldn't have had children to just let someone else raise them which has been say on here numerous times.
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Old 03-23-2011, 01:58 PM
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Okay, I know this has gotten way off topic, but Daycare, I have to ask, after going back to post #14 and reading this:

I was once a single parent with two kids for a long length of time and I had to do what I had to do to make ends meet. But I did not let that stop me from coaching their soccer teams, spending quality time with them outside of work and so forth. I went without a lot of stuff and lived my life for my children. I could have worked the 45 hour work week plus commute time, as I lived in Orange County and that is commute He!!....


Did you have your second child AFTER taking in your friend's child? And, if so, did you continue to get aid? I ask, because you were the first person in this thread to state that people shouldn't have children if they cannot care for them, which IMO is harshly judgemental of parents, yet you did exactly what you are judging parents for - sans the childcare?
Not that I want to air my dirty laundry, I got married when my son was 2 and later had another child. After 3 years of marriage, my now ex husband decided that he did not want to live in the US and left back to our home country and left me, our daughter and my son.

The first time that I was on aid was for 1 year, and then I got off when I got married. I never did go back on after I divorced, because by that time I had enough schooling to get me a better paying job. We still did not have anything and it was my choice. In the beginning, my x did not help me financially, but does now.

I didn't mean that people should not have children who cannot afford them. Besides, nothing is 100% guaranteed right? My now ex husband when we were married had it all, so some would say. We could have afforded to raise 100 children. Anything can happen and unfortunately for me something did happen and I was left to fend for myself and my kids.
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Old 03-23-2011, 02:01 PM
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oh, i thought you dropped out of school. hmm. i've obviously missed something.

either way, it's very hypocritical for you to judge parents who work long hours for "poor planning." i would think you of all people who ran into a very unplanned situation would be more realistic.
yes I did at that time drop out of college. I was living in the dorms and could not have a child there. There was NO way that I would have been able to pay for a top school, a child and work. Something had to give at that time and that is what i chose. I did go back and in fact I am still in school right now.... perhaps you didnt read that part either......
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Old 03-23-2011, 02:03 PM
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yes I did at that time drop out of college. I was living in the dorms and could not have a child there. There was NO way that I would have been able to pay for a top school, a child and work. Something had to give at that time and that is what i chose. I did go back and in fact I am still in school right now.... perhaps you didnt read that part either......
I cant find the post, but someone else wrote a vaid post saying that its sad when both parents work 50 plus hour weeks and have no plans to ever change the way that they work, but keep on having more children for someone else to raise and I agree with this.
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Old 03-23-2011, 02:17 PM
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Who said I didn't work? I just didn't work two jobs so I could go to schOol and be there for my son. Perhaps you missed that.
what's one contradiction in a pile of 100 though.
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Old 03-23-2011, 02:19 PM
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Sorry I went to community college. Dropped out of the university. Sorry didn't know my life was on trial here... Glad you have time to want to try to be little me, but I don't really care what you think about my life, my choices or my decisions. I don't look down on you in any way for the way you have chosen to parent and while I may have not explained myself 100% (and I should not have to) I am not going to sit here and nitpick at you the way you are doing to me. Again if you don't like the path that have chosen in my life, the words that I chose to use then let it be that. I think that one of us here at some point just needs to let this go and I am not going to sit here and continue to let you attack me. But thanks for spending your day and making it about me. I feel important
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Old 03-23-2011, 04:47 PM
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when you make posts like this:

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I don't think it’s unfair to state that, I know "life happens" and the tough gets going when the going gets tough. I just don't offer services to those families anymore, as I don't think it is fair to the child.
I do feel that adults should be the one to have to make sacrifices. Why is it necessary for every family to have to keep up with the Jones’s?

I was once a single parent with two kids for a long length of time and I had to do what I had to do to make ends meet. But I did not let that stop me from coaching their soccer teams, spending quality time with them outside of work and so forth. I went without a lot of stuff and lived my life for my children. I could have worked the 45 hour work week plus commute time, as I lived in Orange County and that is commute He!!....

But it was not my children's fault and therefore I gave up everything I could that would help better their lives. I sold my fancy car and bought a used one, I kept healthy so I could wear the same clothes for 10years.. I did everything in my power to make sure that dad and I were the one's raising them. When they were at dad's I worked more hours, worked weekends or odd jobs to make ends meet.

Parents don't stop to think about who is really affected and just except that working 12+ hour days as their way of life.......
I think that it is selfish and sad............ I know that if I could do this with two young kids as a single mom and finishing school at the same time that ANYONE could do it too.


If only parents realized that their kids really only want time with their mom/dad to be held, read to, played with, sang to or just be near them, parents would not be killing themself to work many hours to buy all of the uncessary things...........
and comments like this:

"But I really think that parents should have thought about that before having kids. Why have a child so someone else can raise your child?"

and then later share that you were able to be "supermom" thanks to welfare, yeah, that's going to hit a nerve. you don't want to be judged, but you had no problem judging. you even said, "I could have worked the 45 hour work week plus commute time, as I lived in Orange County and that is commute He!!...." which all sounded wonderful before we realized you COULD HAVE but DIDN'T not because of all the sacrifices you made, but bc other people were working and sacrificing time with their kids to help support you so you could stay home with yours. how heartwarming.

oh and when you say things like, "I know that if I could do this with two young kids as a single mom and finishing school at the same time" and then turn around and say you didn't really finish bc you dropped out, but you really didn't drop out bc you went to a different school, and actually you never finished school as a single mom bc you're still going - yeah, that discredits what you say.

Last edited by QualiTcare; 03-23-2011 at 04:49 PM.
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Old 03-23-2011, 05:47 PM
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Well I'm glad you have had time in your day to investigate and try to figure out the timeline of my life, but sweetie you have it all wrong. I won't explain my personal life on a website and am perfectly fine if you want to sit here and continue to try to make assumptions about my personal life and bash me.

Thank you for spending your whole day trying to belittle me and discredit me.
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Old 03-24-2011, 06:34 AM
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True...... everything is a choice, but then there are also those special circumstances as well, exceptopm to the rule...

The reason I say this, is because I became a parent at the age of 19, while still in college. My best friend and her boyfriend had a baby during our first year of college. He was a dead beat dad and took off. During this time, my best friend and I lived together (friends for several years) and one of the most awful devastating things one could think of happened, the mom was killed in a car accident. This is a very long story, but to cut to the point, I chose to step up and raise the child. I tried for years to find the father, but never did. My friend had no family to help raise the baby, as she was thrown from one foster famiy to the next when growing up and I had no clue who her real parents were.. The baby was was 9 months when she passed. For years I struggled to give this child (MY CHILD) a life that he deserved. I dropped out of school, and worked my tail end off, I had to receive government assistance, I had to go without a lot of things, but one thing I knew for sure that my child was NEVER ever going to go without ME.

After years of trying to find any family to help care for him everything failed. Finally when my son turned 6 I went to court to request the right to adopt him. On May 16, 2000, I fully and legally adopted my son. This subject hits so close to home for me and has brought me to tears just having to type this.
My son is now 15 and he tells me all the time, do you remember when you used to get the boxes from the subway by our old house so that we could have stuff to play with. My son 15 now builds these same forts and castles with his little brother age 3.5. Also, my son has made presidents honor every year, plays every sport known to man and has been invited to meet the president of the United States this summer by the National Young Leaders Conference. I am still in college and often have to ask him for help with my math…lol In the end, there is NO greater feeling knowing that I helped pave this path for my son, not a DC provider, not a stranger, ME, a college drop out, who used to clean toilets at the gas station, me who had nothing to give but ME…….
While this is a rare occasion, life sometimes does happen.... and as I say this, there is an exception for every rule....well unless you’re Jessica Tata...
That's a really touching story, daycare. Good for you for stepping up. Good for your friend for having someone like you. Good for your son for being raised by such a strong and determined woman. Awesome!
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Old 03-24-2011, 06:45 AM
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Daycare, for what it's worth, your story warmed my heart . I love it when people are willing to step up and care for kids that have no one else, instead of giving them to the foster care system to deal (not that it's not a wonderful system!). So many people are more than willing to let someone else deal with situations like this. Not so many are willing to give up a good portion of their own life and make sacrifices like you did.

Debate aside, thank you for caring for your son!!
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Old 03-24-2011, 07:01 AM
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Daycare, for what it's worth, your story warmed my heart . I love it when people are willing to step up and care for kids that have no one else, instead of giving them to the foster care system to deal (not that it's not a wonderful system!). So many people are more than willing to let someone else deal with situations like this. Not so many are willing to give up a good portion of their own life and make sacrifices like you did.

Debate aside, thank you for caring for your son!!
I wholeheartedly agree! As for getting assistance...I would certainly hope so. Anyone who provides foster care receives financial support, why in the world should you have been any different.

You made a choice to step in and be there for a child alone in the world, at 19 no less. You should be applauded. I'm sure you are wonderful example for your son.
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Old 03-24-2011, 07:04 AM
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Yeah - that's way long. I thought most states have a limit, like 10hrs. You have to set your hours and stick to them...unless you have staff with shifts. But at any rate - that poor kid. I think people don't realize that even though the child should like daycare - it is still not "home" and staying there all day is hard.
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Old 03-24-2011, 07:43 AM
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Yeah - that's way long. I thought most states have a limit, like 10hrs. You have to set your hours and stick to them...unless you have staff with shifts. But at any rate - that poor kid. I think people don't realize that even though the child should like daycare - it is still not "home" and staying there all day is hard.
In Calif. the max a child can stay in licensed daycare is 23 hours,

I do have 2 kids that stay long hours too, I have a single mom that works AND goes to school at night .She has no family support . They are here 14 hours a day(most days). I give them baths at night and take them everywhere...gymnastics, ballet, church. They love my house and get excited when mom comes but they love being here because I don't treat them like a dck . They are like extended family. We never talk about money or arrangements in front of them.
Dad is not in the picture at all , she is an awesome mom and they are VERY well behaved. I taught 4 year old to read , and 7 year old is in all advanced classes.

The alternative ??..tell mom "sorry but everybody says that these hours are not good for them, so you have to stay in your dead end job forever and not graduate from college, keep living in the projects,and stay poor...hey but your kids will be happy to see you more everyday!!"
This is just temporary and I know that doing this will better their lives, which is one of the reasons why I do daycare.
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Old 03-24-2011, 09:19 AM
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See this is what I don't get.

You stand firm that develomentally approriate programs are what all programs should be. You have shared that you are an evaluator of programs as a part of your living.

How can you suggest that it is EVER developmentally appropriate for a developmentally appropriate program to ALLOW eleven hour days? Doesn't that completely defy developmentally appropriate?

Where is it on your evaluation tools that asks "how many hours per day does each child in this program attend?". Shouldn't that be the FIRST question? Shouldn't that be more important than whether or not their is a sand and water table? Shouldn't that matter more than having comfy seating or a "quiet area" for privacy?

When are we going to recognize that it is impossible to be developmentally appropriate when a child is away from their parent that many waking hours a day? When are we going to take a stand and tell parents we just can't do it? It's too much.

There are only twenty four hours in a day. That can't be cheated. If a kid is in your home eleven hours and has transport time home with parents there is no possible way for them to have any substantial DAILY awake face time with their kid.

I do nine hours max. You allow eleven. Just think about the last two hours every day in your program and imagine every single kid being home and awake with their parents.

Now you tell me that you wouldn't prefer that? You tell me it wouldn't make a HUGE difference in the quality of parenting and the quality of YOU and your work?

This isn't something that needs researching... it's plain simple common sense. Children need TIME .... awake TIME.. every day with their parents.

I won't be a part of any care that means that at the end of the week the kid is in my care more hours awake than they are in the parents care a week awake.

I'm not talking about sleeping times... I'm talking about awake hours. Not counting nap... not counting sleeping at night... AWAKE hours.

We need to be the ones to take a stand and say we won't do it. We won't be a part of any system that promotes that much time in care. Sure people have busy lives .... they have to work... but the message needs to be sent before the kid is even conceived that the "BEST" child care won't allow eleven hour days because the best know it's not in the BEST interest of the kids.

I AGREE with Nannyde on this one 100%!
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Old 03-24-2011, 09:34 AM
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Default long days, working/commuting

Here is the problem. Parents will piece together care with a sitter or nanny for the hours surrounding FCP and Center care if they have too. Its not that parents plan to have children in care that long, it is simply not a choice. Frankly, choice, when it comes to parenthood is becoming less available every day. If you don't want to provide care for the hours a parent needs, that all that needs to be said. Many parents work more than an hour from their homes or care centers, few workplaces offer on site care, and often the choice of a one hour commute with child and near care to work is not available. Maybe this is a regional or cultural problem.

Offer what you want to offer and feel comfortable with.

Let parents make their own best decisions in the care and support of their children.

And - for the poster with a friend who grew up in China - things have changed all over the world and many parents do work world wide, full days, with long commutes and not all grandmas are retired either.

I understand most FCPs here made the career choice to be able to be with their own children. Not everyone has the gifts and talents required to take that role, and some parents have necessary skills (like pediatrician, nurse, police officer, shift worker) that do require them to be away from home for longer than is ideal.

I know many parents who could support their children if they were only paid what is covered in child care assistance. That is just not an option.
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Old 03-24-2011, 10:50 AM
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I can remember when my DD was in daycare and those were long days. Long commutes are the worst. She was in daycare from about 7:15am until about 5:45pm, Monday through Friday. It couldn't be helped at the time. The alternative was not working and trying to scrape by on my husband's income alone. That was not going to be a viable option because we had too many expenses at the time. I think that we made the best decision possible for our family at the time. Do I wish that I would have had more time with her? Yes, but in the long run it would have created a lot of financial problems.

As far as public assistance goes, there are people who abuse it and there are people who don't abuse it. It's a sore spot for me because I have sisters who have managed to turn public assistance into a way of getting by without working. It's especially difficult when one of my sisters acts like she's the World's most loving mom because she was there for her kids. I have had to learn that not all people on assistance are like my sisters, but it is a work in progress. It takes time.
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Old 03-24-2011, 12:18 PM
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I can remember when my DD was in daycare and those were long days. Long commutes are the worst. She was in daycare from about 7:15am until about 5:45pm, Monday through Friday. It couldn't be helped at the time. The alternative was not working and trying to scrape by on my husband's income alone. That was not going to be a viable option because we had too many expenses at the time. I think that we made the best decision possible for our family at the time. Do I wish that I would have had more time with her? Yes, but in the long run it would have created a lot of financial problems.

As far as public assistance goes, there are people who abuse it and there are people who don't abuse it. It's a sore spot for me because I have sisters who have managed to turn public assistance into a way of getting by without working. It's especially difficult when one of my sisters acts like she's the World's most loving mom because she was there for her kids. I have had to learn that not all people on assistance are like my sisters, but it is a work in progress. It takes time.
I've worked in corporate and I've worked at home so I can see both sides of the coin. I didn't really "weigh in" on this thread because it seemed to have gotten hurtful to people along the way. I really like how you worded your post. Very non-judgmental and understanding of both sides....thank you!
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Old 03-24-2011, 12:47 PM
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I have been thinking about the posts that were going back and forth and thought about it to the point that I went back and read from the start.
I want to apologize to anyone that I may have offended and this was never my intention. I did make the mistake and not explain myself well and I “bunched people into groups”, which was not fair.

WE all know that no two people have the same story or the same life. And I think that as American’s it is great that we are FREE to voice our opinions, good or bad.

I don’t want to comment on this subject anymore, buy I was feeling bad that I offended some people and needed to apologize. I am very sorry to those that I may offended.
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Old 03-27-2011, 01:25 PM
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My wife runs a daycare (10-12) kids and she has people show up late at least once a week. Life does happen, but, daycare providers are in a unique situation where when "life happens" - it affects them as well. Other times, she feels like people just aren't considerate enough to make an effort at showing up on time. Some people like to wait till the last minute of everyday and are late quite often. So she has a late fee to help enforce the time policy, but when it actually comes time to tell someone they are late - it's harder - especially when they are only like 5 minutes over. So - I created some software to help this problem. It's main purpose is to manage the time records, eliminate the sign in /out sheet - and most importantly notify the parents when they have violated the time policy. I've just launched the site - called checkinkids.com - and I'm offering free lifetime usage to the first 20 people that sign up, use it and give feedback. I have 7 sign ups so far.
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Old 05-09-2019, 09:05 AM
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I work 2 jobs and my wife is a nurse an hour away from our home . 3 days out of the week my child requires 11.5 hour days at daycare. I wanted a daughter, I will not be a dirtbag of a human being dependent on welfare, and I will work my ass off to provide for my family. The extra money destroys our debt, saves money for my daughters college/wedding/future house. Yes it’s a long day for anyone to do and guess what I did think about providing for my daughter when I thought about having kids. Anyone who say you should have thought about that before having children either does not have children or completely relays on free handouts I.e. government assistance, stay at home mom, or still live with your parents. Some of us have to work our ass off to survive. Until you have been in our shoes you can promptly stfu.
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Old 05-09-2019, 09:15 AM
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I work 2 jobs and my wife is a nurse an hour away from our home . 3 days out of the week my child requires 11.5 hour days at daycare. I wanted a daughter, I will not be a dirtbag of a human being dependent on welfare, and I will work my ass off to provide for my family. The extra money destroys our debt, saves money for my daughters college/wedding/future house. Yes it’s a long day for anyone to do and guess what I did think about providing for my daughter when I thought about having kids. Anyone who say you should have thought about that before having children either does not have children or completely relays on free handouts I.e. government assistance, stay at home mom, or still live with your parents. Some of us have to work our ass off to survive. Until you have been in our shoes you can promptly stfu.
Um okay.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
You don't have to agree but generalized sweeping statements about those that don't share your view is pretty narrow minded.

Everyone also has choices.
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