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Unregistered 05:58 PM 08-04-2014
I'm hoping to get some advise on a daycare situation. First off...I really, really like my daycare provider! My husband and I went through pure hell with daycares with my daughter. When my son was born (6 months ago), I found an amazing home daycare. I really don't want to switch, but here's the issue I'm having.

There's this one baby..about the same age as my son..who is very high maintenance for one, bit is also always sick. He's always got a runny nose or a cough or something. My daycare lady does a good job of cleaning the toys, but it won't do a whole lot of good. My husband and I both have extremely busy jobs and just can't afford to be taking off all the time because our son is sick every other week. Now I totally understand that kids get sick, especially at this age. But his mom is a teacher...she's off in the summer! Why can't she keep him home?!

He's also very high maintenance! Like he hits notes Mariah Carrey can't reach when he cries! I take my lunch at my son's daycare so I can nurse him and put him down for his afternoon nap. I love seeing my son, but can't tolerate hearing this kid cry and fuss because he's not getting constant attention. I know this little boy gets more attention than my son, and that really bothers me.

I really feel the need to discuss this with our provider, but I'm not sure the best way to approach it. Should I address it with my provider or the other mom?
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cheerfuldom 06:11 PM 08-04-2014
Do NOT address it with the other mom! I cant imagine that any good will come from that discussion.

You can address it with the provider but know that she is running a business as she sees fit. You very well may tick her off and get booted for complaining. Besides, what exactly are you wanting to come from this discussion? I am sure she is doing her best with this child. And she is not going to term this family just because you are complaining. Lastly, this teacher mom pays for daycare. Its none of your business why her child is at daycare instead of at home. A million things could be going on as a reason to why she is doing this.....but even if it is not a good reason in your estimation, it still is none of your business.

More than likely though, you will just have to decide if you want to continue with this daycare knowing that there is a high maintenance baby in care or look for other care. You cant control every child and every portion of a daycare. You cant interview other daycares and tell them they cant keep cryers and sickies otherwise you will pull your kid. I am not saying you would do that but what I am saying is that if you change daycares, whose to say the next group of kids wont be even louder and sicker than the current group? It is just a part of the deal when your child is in group care. You have to realize that you cant control the other parents and the other kids that are in that same group scenario. If you feel that your child is being tended to, is safe, and are overall happy with the scenario, I would just leave this situation alone. If the baby bothers you, stop going on your lunch break to the daycare and you won't have to hear it. Kids cry. Some kids cries are just downright grating but it is just part of the deal at a daycare. He may be pretty easy the rest of the day but you arent there to see it so to say that he receives more attention than your son is to me, an uninformed opinion. I would leave the whole thing alone and just be happy with the positives of the place.
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NightOwl 06:30 PM 08-04-2014
If you trust your provider, then trust her to make the right decisions for all children in her care. If the high maintenance baby is overwhelming her, she may be considering terming this baby. You never know. I would hate for you to leave someone you love because of one child. Babies grow out of the crying sometimes, or a parent could lose their job and withdraw the child. I would stick it out.
But if you can't tolerate it any longer, talk to your provider, but don't necessarily expect her to do as you wish. As cheer said, this is her business and she runs it as she sees fit. But you'll never know what she's thinking unless you approach the subject with her.
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Unregistered 06:35 PM 08-04-2014
So my son and his needs..along with the other kids..have to suffer because this one kid is just not doing well in childcare? That seems very one sided. I work full time so it means a lot to be able to spend that 1 extra hour a day with my son. When he's not there, daycare is wonderful! The kids get to do art projects, no one is getting sick, and they have a calm and pleasant day. But when he's there, the whole daycare gets held hostage.

If I talk to the other mom, I would simply express my disappointment and ask that she take the other kids and their families into consideration before bringing him if he's sick. I kept my son home an entire week...and I still paid for daycare...because he had a cough and some upper respiratory gunk. I did this because my son needed me for one, it wasn't fair to my daycare provider to deal with a fussy baby all day, and three, it prevented the others from getting what he had. I guess I would just appreciate the same consideration.
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NightOwl 07:02 PM 08-04-2014
And you're right to expect that... From your provider. She should not be allowing contagious children in her care. It's actually a licensing violation. That is something I would definitely approach with her. But not the other mom. That's not your place, it's your provider's.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 07:06 PM 08-04-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
So my son and his needs..along with the other kids..have to suffer because this one kid is just not doing well in childcare? That seems very one sided. I work full time so it means a lot to be able to spend that 1 extra hour a day with my son. When he's not there, daycare is wonderful! The kids get to do art projects, no one is getting sick, and they have a calm and pleasant day. But when he's there, the whole daycare gets held hostage.

If I talk to the other mom, I would simply express my disappointment and ask that she take the other kids and their families into consideration before bringing him if he's sick. I kept my son home an entire week...and I still paid for daycare...because he had a cough and some upper respiratory gunk. I did this because my son needed me for one, it wasn't fair to my daycare provider to deal with a fussy baby all day, and three, it prevented the others from getting what he had. I guess I would just appreciate the same consideration.
My guess is your daycare provider feels much of the same irritation as you do but she cannot professionally show you this. Maybe if you referred another family on over she could consider replacing this one if she is finding he adds a new level of difficulty to everyone's day... Just trying to see if from your side.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 07:06 PM 08-04-2014
Originally Posted by Wednesday:
And you're right to expect that... From your provider. She should not be allowing contagious children in her care. It's actually a licensing violation. That is something I would definitely approach with her. But not the other mom. That's not your place, it's your provider's.
Yes. Have you looked up your state's minimum standards to see what they are as far as illness exclusions?
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NightOwl 07:30 PM 08-04-2014
Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist:
Yes. Have you looked up your state's minimum standards to see what they are as far as illness exclusions?
You can find it online for free at your state's dept of human resources (or whatever the agency is called in your area) or you can also pick up a copy for free at their local office. As a parent, you have a right to know which standards your provider is being held to.
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AmyKidsCo 08:34 PM 08-04-2014
The other thing to keep in mind is that your child will probably get sick as much as he is now anywhere he goes for child care, except maybe at home or Grandma's. And if you go that route then he'll get sick when he is around other children - whether that's preschool or Kindergarten, etc. Children's immune systems need to develop, and unfortunately, getting sick is how they develop.
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Laurel 03:09 AM 08-05-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I'm hoping to get some advise on a daycare situation. First off...I really, really like my daycare provider! My husband and I went through pure hell with daycares with my daughter. When my son was born (6 months ago), I found an amazing home daycare. I really don't want to switch, but here's the issue I'm having.

There's this one baby..about the same age as my son..who is very high maintenance for one, bit is also always sick. He's always got a runny nose or a cough or something. My daycare lady does a good job of cleaning the toys, but it won't do a whole lot of good. My husband and I both have extremely busy jobs and just can't afford to be taking off all the time because our son is sick every other week. Now I totally understand that kids get sick, especially at this age. But his mom is a teacher...she's off in the summer! Why can't she keep him home?!

He's also very high maintenance! Like he hits notes Mariah Carrey can't reach when he cries! I take my lunch at my son's daycare so I can nurse him and put him down for his afternoon nap. I love seeing my son, but can't tolerate hearing this kid cry and fuss because he's not getting constant attention. I know this little boy gets more attention than my son, and that really bothers me.

I really feel the need to discuss this with our provider, but I'm not sure the best way to approach it. Should I address it with my provider or the other mom?
Personally, I would bring it up to the provider. She is probably having a hard time with the other baby as well and knowing your feelings might be the push she needs to term. I would gently tell her what you told us.

Group care won't be perfect but when there is constant sickness or a difficult screaming baby, I don't think it is good for any of the children. I am a retired provider but I would have wanted to know if a parent felt that way.

Just approach it with, "I can see you are in a difficult situation and are doing the best you can but it is hard to bring my baby under these circumstances..."

Laurel
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Blackcat31 05:19 AM 08-05-2014
Originally Posted by Laurel:
Personally, I would bring it up to the provider. She is probably having a hard time with the other baby as well and knowing your feelings might be the push she needs to term. I would gently tell her what you told us.

Group care won't be perfect but when there is constant sickness or a difficult screaming baby, I don't think it is good for any of the children. I am a retired provider but I would have wanted to know if a parent felt that way.

Just approach it with, "I can see you are in a difficult situation and are doing the best you can but it is hard to bring my baby under these circumstances..."

Laurel
I agree with this. Years ago, I had a extremely difficult daycare baby, similar to the one OP talks about.

I "toughed" it out because I thought that was my job. I figured, it was part of my responsibility to deal with him....despite the fact that he really did take up more than half my attention during the day.

It never dawned on me that the other parents (or even the other kids) were bothered by it. Had I known then, what I know now....I would NEVER have continued to try and tough it out. Had even one other parent came to me and expressed concern, I think it would have snapped me out of the chaos I was dealing with and helped me see a different perspective and realize it wasn't just MY issue.

Environment is everything in Early Childhood and if it isn't everything, it definitely plays a HUGE role in the day to day emotional and mental stability of EVERYONE and a high maintenance baby can do a provider in faster than anything.

OP~ I would schedule a private conference with your provider. I would talk with her about the issues you have posted here and I would approach it in a helpful, supportive manner verses a full on complaint about what things you are unhappy about...kwim? Maybe just share your concerns about the time and attention the other kids are missing out on due to the high needs of other children. I would also express concern for her own mental health and stress levels.

Most providers would appreciate a parent that is concerned about the WHOLE scenario and not just focus on YOUR personal concerns (although valid).

I would NOT however, recommend that you speak to the other parent. That is not something I see going over well. Approach your provider and have a private conference with her. Honesty is the best policy and open communication (when things are BOTH good and bad) is vital to a healthy working relationship.
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Angelsj 05:36 AM 08-05-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I agree with this. Years ago, I had a extremely difficult daycare baby, similar to the one OP talks about.

I "toughed" it out because I thought that was my job. I figured, it was part of my responsibility to deal with him....despite the fact that he really did take up more than half my attention during the day.

It never dawned on me that the other parents (or even the other kids) were bothered by it. Had I known then, what I know now....I would NEVER have continued to try and tough it out. Had even one other parent came to me and expressed concern, I think it would have snapped me out of the chaos I was dealing with and helped me see a different perspective and realize it wasn't just MY issue.

Environment is everything in Early Childhood and if it isn't everything, it definitely plays a HUGE role in the day to day emotional and mental stability of EVERYONE and a high maintenance baby can do a provider in faster than anything.

OP~ I would schedule a private conference with your provider. I would talk with her about the issues you have posted here and I would approach it in a helpful, supportive manner verses a full on complaint about what things you are unhappy about...kwim? Maybe just share your concerns about the time and attention the other kids are missing out on due to the high needs of other children. I would also express concern for her own mental health and stress levels.

Most providers would appreciate a parent that is concerned about the WHOLE scenario and not just focus on YOUR personal concerns (although valid).

I would NOT however, recommend that you speak to the other parent. That is not something I see going over well. Approach your provider and have a private conference with her. Honesty is the best policy and open communication (when things are BOTH good and bad) is vital to a healthy working relationship.
Agreed.
You may also get a glimpse into how she is feeling about/dealing with this. She may be ready to term or have the child on a plan. Chance are good she is already aware there is a problem. And if not, maybe you will be the one to help her realize she doesn't have to "just deal."
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cheerfuldom 05:57 AM 08-05-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
So my son and his needs..along with the other kids..have to suffer because this one kid is just not doing well in childcare? That seems very one sided. I work full time so it means a lot to be able to spend that 1 extra hour a day with my son. When he's not there, daycare is wonderful! The kids get to do art projects, no one is getting sick, and they have a calm and pleasant day. But when he's there, the whole daycare gets held hostage.

If I talk to the other mom, I would simply express my disappointment and ask that she take the other kids and their families into consideration before bringing him if he's sick. I kept my son home an entire week...and I still paid for daycare...because he had a cough and some upper respiratory gunk. I did this because my son needed me for one, it wasn't fair to my daycare provider to deal with a fussy baby all day, and three, it prevented the others from getting what he had. I guess I would just appreciate the same consideration.
one of my points was that you cant know for sure that things are only calm and pleasant when this baby is gone.....you arent there all the time.
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Heidi 06:01 AM 08-05-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I agree with this. Years ago, I had a extremely difficult daycare baby, similar to the one OP talks about.

I "toughed" it out because I thought that was my job. I figured, it was part of my responsibility to deal with him....despite the fact that he really did take up more than half my attention during the day.

It never dawned on me that the other parents (or even the other kids) were bothered by it. Had I known then, what I know now....I would NEVER have continued to try and tough it out. Had even one other parent came to me and expressed concern, I think it would have snapped me out of the chaos I was dealing with and helped me see a different perspective and realize it wasn't just MY issue.

Environment is everything in Early Childhood and if it isn't everything, it definitely plays a HUGE role in the day to day emotional and mental stability of EVERYONE and a high maintenance baby can do a provider in faster than anything.

OP~ I would schedule a private conference with your provider. I would talk with her about the issues you have posted here and I would approach it in a helpful, supportive manner verses a full on complaint about what things you are unhappy about...kwim? Maybe just share your concerns about the time and attention the other kids are missing out on due to the high needs of other children. I would also express concern for her own mental health and stress levels.

Most providers would appreciate a parent that is concerned about the WHOLE scenario and not just focus on YOUR personal concerns (although valid).

I would NOT however, recommend that you speak to the other parent. That is not something I see going over well. Approach your provider and have a private conference with her. Honesty is the best policy and open communication (when things are BOTH good and bad) is vital to a healthy working relationship.


If she doesn't have a good support group (the provider), you may be the one to give her "permission" to term; if you're careful about how you approach it. We tend not to want to disappoint anyone. But, if we sense that we could loose a happy child because of an "intense" one, it makes us braver.
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grateday 08:44 PM 08-06-2014
I have been there as a provider and a parent. I ended up terming that kind of kid. I did not like the risk or the held hostage sort of feeling

I cried because I liked the family. I did it asap though before the attachment and sense of responsibility to the parent kicked in. I felt so bad and the other mom cried but in retrospect it was for the best.

It was best for everyone not just me.
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nannyde 03:37 AM 08-07-2014
This is a textbook classic example of why I don't allow parents in the playroom and I don't host onsite breastfeeding.

If I had a parent talk to another parent about their child they would be terminated instantly. If I had to choose between the sick crier and the mom who had an opinion about the sick crier the mom who had the opinion would go not the crier.

You have someone who allows you to hang out for an hour every day. That is something I don't allow because the parent who is in my business for five hours a week has an opinion. That opinion always has something to do with what their baby gets.

If you want to talk to the provider and give your opinion then that's cool. I would just tell her what YOU are going to do not what SHE should do. If she is wise she will know this is a fish or cut bait deal and she needs to decide which fish to keep.

If it were me, I would keep the crying fish not the opinion fish.

I'm not hammering you... PLEASE PLEASE don't take it that way. What I'm saying is that your set up with the provider is way more of an issue to me than the crying kid. I would easily be able to handle that by space and routine.

I don't allow my babies to go ANYWHERE near each other for a very long time into their infancy. If they are transferring illness to each other than they should be completely separated all day every day. Your provider may just need some infant training to solve this. Maybe suggest she come here and get some advice. Once we know her physical set up and children we can give advice for the crier AND how to manage you. She needs to put measures in place so that the issues she has with you don't happen again with another client. She needs to set some boundaries with her clients so that they NEVER have an IOTA or inkling to interfere with her money. Something has happened with you and her where she hasn't shown you that this would be a slam dunk insta term if you considered it.
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Thriftylady 05:41 AM 08-07-2014
It is possible this crier isn't sick at all. My daughter had these same symptoms as a baby, it was allergies. She was "sick" daily for several years until she got old enough for a good allergy med combination. She still takes allergy meds (two kinds) daily for allergies that lead to asthma attacks.

As a provider, I agree that you are being given a lot by being allowed to come and stay on your lunch hour every day. I wouldn't want a parent there that much either, it would just be disruptive to my routine. I do encourage parents to drop in, and even though I am just restarting in the past I welcomed
drop ins with open arms. But coming every day is not a drop in.

If you are happy with the care your children are getting, then I would leave it alone. If you are not happy with the care, then you can always move your children, but keep in mind that group care always has its challenges and no home will be perfect.
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Unregistered 08:40 AM 08-08-2014
A mother has a right to breastfeed her child whenever and where ever. That extends to home daycares. I consulted licensing in my state on this. So legally, she can't term or say I'm not allowed to do this. However, licensing did say that it was common courtesy to notify the daycare provider of the times I would be showing up prior to start of care. Reason for this is some moms (I don't have a problem with it) have a difficult time pumping. The girls just don't respond the same way. When I was looking for providers, I made it known that it was my wish to breastfeed over my lunch, and that I would show up around the same time everyday. There were some days where I choose to go to lunch with my husband, and I let her know this. Now there's been times where she's given him a small bottle about 30 minutes prior because he just couldn't wait. I'm perfectly okay with that.

As a parent, I have a huge issue with daycare providers not wanting a parent to show up. You are taking care of my kid afterall. How do I truly know how my child is being taken care of? There's only so much that can be gained and observed during an interview. A provider who doesn't want a parent to stop by is either a) hiding something or b) not confident in their abilities. I do not distract her or upset her routine, and I consulted her on the best time for me to stop by. We agreed that my lunch period was perfect because he takes his afternoon right after. I go by, play with him for a bit, change him, and rock him to sleep. I believe I've done everything I possibly could to make this as smoothe as possible.

Again, my reasoning for thinking about talking to the other mom was merely to see if she could relate. My son has had the gunk her son passed on for 10 days now. He's congested and has a cough making it difficult to sleep at night. We are doing all we can at home, but we're exhausted and hate seeing our little one sick again. And yes I know this other child has been sick because it's green snot..allergies don't produce green snot. Teething doesn't produce green snot. I also don't think it's fair for one child to monopolize over 50% of her time when there's 3 other children at the daycare that also need her attention.
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KidGrind 09:41 AM 08-08-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
A mother has a right to breastfeed her child whenever and where ever. That extends to home daycares. I consulted licensing in my state on this. So legally, she can't term or say I'm not allowed to do this. However, licensing did say that it was common courtesy to notify the daycare provider of the times I would be showing up prior to start of care. Reason for this is some moms (I don't have a problem with it) have a difficult time pumping. The girls just don't respond the same way. When I was looking for providers, I made it known that it was my wish to breastfeed over my lunch, and that I would show up around the same time everyday. There were some days where I choose to go to lunch with my husband, and I let her know this. Now there's been times where she's given him a small bottle about 30 minutes prior because he just couldn't wait. I'm perfectly okay with that.

As a parent, I have a huge issue with daycare providers not wanting a parent to show up. You are taking care of my kid afterall. How do I truly know how my child is being taken care of? There's only so much that can be gained and observed during an interview. A provider who doesn't want a parent to stop by is either a) hiding something or b) not confident in their abilities. I do not distract her or upset her routine, and I consulted her on the best time for me to stop by. We agreed that my lunch period was perfect because he takes his afternoon right after. I go by, play with him for a bit, change him, and rock him to sleep. I believe I've done everything I possibly could to make this as smoothe as possible.

Again, my reasoning for thinking about talking to the other mom was merely to see if she could relate. My son has had the gunk her son passed on for 10 days now. He's congested and has a cough making it difficult to sleep at night. We are doing all we can at home, but we're exhausted and hate seeing our little one sick again. And yes I know this other child has been sick because it's green snot..allergies don't produce green snot. Teething doesn't produce green snot. I also don't think it's fair for one child to monopolize over 50% of her time when there's 3 other children at the daycare that also need her attention.

You would not be my client. I run a home business. There is no space in my daycare area for you to breastfeed. I also respect the rights of my other families in care.

I think it’s awesome your provider allows you do this. If you would be so kind and copy & paste the section where a provider must open her home business up for you to breastfeed. I am aware you must always have access to your child. Always having access to your child does not mean you can come and go as you please. It does not mean you have a right to breastfeed in anyone’s home.

My DCP’s come visit weekly, nothing to hide. However, visits can be disruptive and my concern is the group. Any parent wishing to breastfeed in my home is told it’s not an option. They sign on or they don’t, no hard feelings. You’ve only witnessed 50% of one hour with is 30 minutes per day.
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Thriftylady 09:48 AM 08-08-2014
Originally Posted by KidGrind:
You would not be my client. I run a home business. There is no space in my daycare area for you to breastfeed. I also respect the rights of my other families in care.

I think itís awesome your provider allows you do this. If you would be so kind and copy & paste the section where a provider my open her home business up for you to breastfeed. I am aware they you must always have access to your child. Always having access to your child does not mean you can come and go as you please. It does not mean you have a right to breastfeed in anyoneís home.

My DCPís come visit weekly, nothing to hide. However, visits can be disruptive and my concern is the group. Any parent wishing to breastfeed in my home is told itís not an option. They sign on or they donít, no hard feelings. Youíve only witnessed 50% of one hour with is 30 minutes.
Agreed, I would never tell a parent they can't come in and see what is going on. Staying for an hour I wouldn't allow. Neither state I have lived in says I have to let a parent in to breastfeed. If a parent demanded it, I would just tell them they needed to find another provider. It is MY home I pay the bills and I make the rules. If it is that big big of a problem, I suggest you find another provider and give your current one a proper notice as per your contract. Personally if I were her, I would have NEVER agreed to what she has and would love to see a link to the rule saying she has to allow it just because I have never seen such a thing.
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Blackcat31 09:58 AM 08-08-2014
Please post the regulation stating your beliefs about breastfeeding in a home daycare.

Your location comes up as Kansas. We have several members on the board form Kansas. I am sure they can clarify any misinterpretations you are reading.
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nannyde 10:08 AM 08-08-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
A mother has a right to breastfeed her child whenever and where ever. That extends to home daycares. I consulted licensing in my state on this. So legally, she can't term or say I'm not allowed to do this. However, licensing did say that it was common courtesy to notify the daycare provider of the times I would be showing up prior to start of care. Reason for this is some moms (I don't have a problem with it) have a difficult time pumping. The girls just don't respond the same way. When I was looking for providers, I made it known that it was my wish to breastfeed over my lunch, and that I would show up around the same time everyday. There were some days where I choose to go to lunch with my husband, and I let her know this. Now there's been times where she's given him a small bottle about 30 minutes prior because he just couldn't wait. I'm perfectly okay with that.

As a parent, I have a huge issue with daycare providers not wanting a parent to show up. You are taking care of my kid afterall. How do I truly know how my child is being taken care of? There's only so much that can be gained and observed during an interview. A provider who doesn't want a parent to stop by is either a) hiding something or b) not confident in their abilities. I do not distract her or upset her routine, and I consulted her on the best time for me to stop by. We agreed that my lunch period was perfect because he takes his afternoon right after. I go by, play with him for a bit, change him, and rock him to sleep. I believe I've done everything I possibly could to make this as smoothe as possible.

Again, my reasoning for thinking about talking to the other mom was merely to see if she could relate. My son has had the gunk her son passed on for 10 days now. He's congested and has a cough making it difficult to sleep at night. We are doing all we can at home, but we're exhausted and hate seeing our little one sick again. And yes I know this other child has been sick because it's green snot..allergies don't produce green snot. Teething doesn't produce green snot. I also don't think it's fair for one child to monopolize over 50% of her time when there's 3 other children at the daycare that also need her attention.
I don't give a flip what your rights are. I don't allow ANY parent to come and feed their child on site. I don't allow formula fed infants to be fed onsite. I don't allow children with eating disorders be fed onsite. There's nothing special about you and your child's manner of eating. If your child attended my child care he would have to be proficient on the bottle and you would have to be able to provide the milk. If you couldn't do either than you wouldn't enroll. I don't enroll mothers who need to feed onsite instead of pump. I don't accept babies who are proficient on the bottle.

If you tried to force me into allowing you to feed onsite you would get by with it on day one... but you wouldn't be enrolled on day two. If you want to involve the law then the law will be involved. In the meantime you will be feeding somewhere else. I'm willing to take whatever comes my way regarding your rights.

This is MY house. MY rules. MY business.

You are not my employer and your child is just ONE child in my home. I will not allow you to interfere because your BAYBEEEEEEE is in my house. I can get another BABY just as easily as I got you.

You said As a parent, I have a huge issue with daycare providers not wanting a parent to show up. You are taking care of my kid afterall.

As a provider I know the number one risk to your baby is YOU. Statistics overwhelmingly show the number one killer of children is their MOTHER. The number one abuser of children is their MOTHER. I have to worry every day that you didn't slam your kid up against the wall before you dropped him off at my house. I run the risk every day that a parent does something or allows something that injures their child and once it is discovered "I" am on the hook for it because time frames of injury are not easily assessed. I have to have my whole livelihood at stake because of something YOU did.

This affects me and my kid after all.

So you and I have to trust each other. I can't tell much by interviewing you. I can't tell if you have a temper. I can't tell if you lie. I can't tell if you will supervise your infant so he doesn't fall down a flight of stairs. I can't tell if you dope your kid before you bring them with a lethal dose of advil and Tylenol because you wanted to go to work when he had a blazing fever.

See how that goes both ways?

You got the tail waggin the dog there friend. There's nothing special about your deal. You have the nerve to think you can talk to my money so you don't loose your money? You aren't talking to one of my parents no matter if you put nice little words together as to "why" you want to.

The reason you can't feed onsite is because your involvement in my business will affect my business. You may think it's okay to have an opinion on one of my daycare kids and be bold enough to think you can address it with his mother.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHY YOU CAN'T BREASTFEED ONSITE.

Get it?

This is my business and until you get that straight you will go through providers like paper towels.
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Thriftylady 10:13 AM 08-08-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Please post the regulation stating your beliefs about breastfeeding in a home daycare.

Your location comes up as Kansas. We have several members on the board form Kansas. I am sure they can clarify any misinterpretations you are reading.
I was licensed in KS in the early 2000's and there was no such regulation then. I had many infants and never once had a mother even ask to come and breastfeed.
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Blackcat31 10:26 AM 08-08-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I don't give a flip what your rights are. I don't allow ANY parent to come and feed their child on site. I don't allow formula fed infants to be fed onsite. I don't allow children with eating disorders be fed onsite. There's nothing special about you and your child's manner of eating. If your child attended my child care he would have to be proficient on the bottle and you would have to be able to provide the milk. If you couldn't do either than you wouldn't enroll. I don't enroll mothers who need to feed onsite instead of pump. I don't accept babies who are proficient on the bottle.

If you tried to force me into allowing you to feed onsite you would get by with it on day one... but you wouldn't be enrolled on day two. If you want to involve the law then the law will be involved. In the meantime you will be feeding somewhere else. I'm willing to take whatever comes my way regarding your rights.

This is MY house. MY rules. MY business.

You are not my employer and your child is just ONE child in my home. I will not allow you to interfere because your BAYBEEEEEEE is in my house. I can get another BABY just as easily as I got you.

You said As a parent, I have a huge issue with daycare providers not wanting a parent to show up. You are taking care of my kid afterall.

As a provider I know the number one risk to your baby is YOU. Statistics overwhelmingly show the number one killer of children is their MOTHER. The number one abuser of children is their MOTHER. I have to worry every day that you didn't slam your kid up against the wall before you dropped him off at my house. I run the risk every day that a parent does something or allows something that injures their child and once it is discovered "I" am on the hook for it because time frames of injury are not easily assessed. I have to have my whole livelihood at stake because of something YOU did.

This affects me and my kid after all.

So you and I have to trust each other. I can't tell much by interviewing you. I can't tell if you have a temper. I can't tell if you lie. I can't tell if you will supervise your infant so he doesn't fall down a flight of stairs. I can't tell if you dope your kid before you bring them with a lethal dose of advil and Tylenol because you wanted to go to work when he had a blazing fever.

See how that goes both ways?

You got the tail waggin the dog there friend. There's nothing special about your deal. You have the nerve to think you can talk to my money so you don't loose your money? You aren't talking to one of my parents no matter if you put nice little words together as to "why" you want to.

The reason you can't feed onsite is because your involvement in my business will affect my business. You may think it's okay to have an opinion on one of my daycare kids and be bold enough to think you can address it with his mother.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHY YOU CAN'T BREASTFEED ONSITE.

Get it?

This is my business and until you get that straight you will go through providers like paper towels.
Funny how the parent NEVER sees (or admits if they do) the other side of their argument.

If a parent wants to be specific about the care her child gets and is not happy with the way the provider does things, then the parent has two choices.

Find a nanny (or new care provider) or care for the child yourself and not place ridiculous stipulations onto the provider.

The second, you tried to support your argument with the law would be the last day I would keep you as a client too.

Parents and providers work together in a trusting relationship.

Not solely based on ONE parents needs or requests or misguided beliefs about the law.
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nannyde 10:40 AM 08-08-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Funny how the parent NEVER sees (or admits if they do) the other side of their argument.

If a parent wants to be specific about the care her child gets and is not happy with the way the provider does things, then the parent has two choices.

Find a nanny (or new care provider) or care for the child yourself and not place ridiculous stipulations onto the provider.

The second, you tried to support your argument with the law would be the last day I would keep you as a client too.

Parents and providers work together in a trusting relationship.

Not solely based on ONE parents needs or requests or misguided beliefs about the law.
I don't get the complete lack of insight when op's behavior is the EXACT reason why she wouldn't be allowed to breastfeed at my house.
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Leigh 12:41 PM 08-08-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I don't give a flip what your rights are. I don't allow ANY parent to come and feed their child on site. I don't allow formula fed infants to be fed onsite. I don't allow children with eating disorders be fed onsite. There's nothing special about you and your child's manner of eating. If your child attended my child care he would have to be proficient on the bottle and you would have to be able to provide the milk. If you couldn't do either than you wouldn't enroll. I don't enroll mothers who need to feed onsite instead of pump. I don't accept babies who are proficient on the bottle.

If you tried to force me into allowing you to feed onsite you would get by with it on day one... but you wouldn't be enrolled on day two. If you want to involve the law then the law will be involved. In the meantime you will be feeding somewhere else. I'm willing to take whatever comes my way regarding your rights.

This is MY house. MY rules. MY business.

You are not my employer and your child is just ONE child in my home. I will not allow you to interfere because your BAYBEEEEEEE is in my house. I can get another BABY just as easily as I got you.

You said As a parent, I have a huge issue with daycare providers not wanting a parent to show up. You are taking care of my kid afterall.

As a provider I know the number one risk to your baby is YOU. Statistics overwhelmingly show the number one killer of children is their MOTHER. The number one abuser of children is their MOTHER. I have to worry every day that you didn't slam your kid up against the wall before you dropped him off at my house. I run the risk every day that a parent does something or allows something that injures their child and once it is discovered "I" am on the hook for it because time frames of injury are not easily assessed. I have to have my whole livelihood at stake because of something YOU did.

This affects me and my kid after all.

So you and I have to trust each other. I can't tell much by interviewing you. I can't tell if you have a temper. I can't tell if you lie. I can't tell if you will supervise your infant so he doesn't fall down a flight of stairs. I can't tell if you dope your kid before you bring them with a lethal dose of advil and Tylenol because you wanted to go to work when he had a blazing fever.

See how that goes both ways?

You got the tail waggin the dog there friend. There's nothing special about your deal. You have the nerve to think you can talk to my money so you don't loose your money? You aren't talking to one of my parents no matter if you put nice little words together as to "why" you want to.

The reason you can't feed onsite is because your involvement in my business will affect my business. You may think it's okay to have an opinion on one of my daycare kids and be bold enough to think you can address it with his mother.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHY YOU CAN'T BREASTFEED ONSITE.

Get it?

This is my business and until you get that straight you will go through providers like paper towels.
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Funny how the parent NEVER sees (or admits if they do) the other side of their argument.

If a parent wants to be specific about the care her child gets and is not happy with the way the provider does things, then the parent has two choices.

Find a nanny (or new care provider) or care for the child yourself and not place ridiculous stipulations onto the provider.

The second, you tried to support your argument with the law would be the last day I would keep you as a client too.

Parents and providers work together in a trusting relationship.

Not solely based on ONE parents needs or requests or misguided beliefs about the law.
There's nothing to add to this. I am so sick of hearing "I PAY you, and you WILL do as I wish". There's a reason that I am SELF employed-I hate dealing with entitled, whiny people. Being my own boss ensures that I don't have to.
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Unregistered 12:54 PM 08-08-2014
Again, I called licensing to ask about breastfeeding. Home daycare are considered a business, but they are licensed by a state agency even though they are a private business. She said it's the same as breastfeeding in a privately owned store. Again, haven't seen the book, just going off of what the licensing place told me. I can tell you that coming to this site has given me an extremely sick feeling about daycare providers in the world today. I have never felt such a lack of respect and lack of understanding from a group of people. I don't know how your parents feel comfortable talking to you when if they mention one concern you will term them. For the record...I went through 3 daycare places with my daughter....

Place 1: licensed church facility (6weeks to just under 1 year) - left because I caught one lady picking at her "business" and then handling infants. And one of the workers tried to kiss my husband.

Place 2: licensed facility (1-3 years) - I thought everything was okay until I actually worked there as a cook (between jobs). Her teacher was leaving 3 year olds unattended for 10 minute periods so she could use the bathroom. Teacher (also assistant director) also had her drug addicted boyfriend coming by the facility while the director was away. Would not have known these things unless I was there. Teacher was also frequently yelling at children, and I witnessed her grab children and jerk them down by their arms. Again, all of this came in complete shock to me. When I'd picked my daughter up from daycare and dropped her off, I never witnessed these behaviors/actions. My daughter started chewing on her hair, and it wasn't until after we left that I came to believe that this was a stress induced behavior.

Place 3: licensed facility (3 - Kindergarten) - I actually really loved this place. I had one small issue that I addressed with the teachers on a couple of occasions and then the director. When enrolled, we were asked to provide an old shirt or cover up for messier food days/art projects. The shirts were obviously not being used so she was being sent home with very messy clothes (several were permanetly stained because it had set in).

I guess I see nothing wrong with being an involved and concerned parent. I'm certainly not a helicopter parent. I expect my children to follow the rules set by their provider. Just like in life, rules are different everywhere you go. I think it's good skill for my children to learn while they are young. However, I disagree on some practices when it involves my child's health and mental well-being. I think any good parent would. If a parent continously sits back and says nothing and is all go with flow on everything, that would be the parent I would be the most concerned about.
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craftymissbeth 01:02 PM 08-08-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Please post the regulation stating your beliefs about breastfeeding in a home daycare.

Your location comes up as Kansas. We have several members on the board form Kansas. I am sure they can clarify any misinterpretations you are reading.
No regs in Kansas that say parents have a right to breast feed in family child cares. We have an "open door" regulation, but it simply means we cannot prevent a parent access to their child. Which obviously just means we can't not let a parent have their child.
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Unregistered 01:13 PM 08-08-2014
Just got off the phone with them to clarify where she was looking. She referred me to the Kansas state statute 65-1,248.
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craftymissbeth 01:14 PM 08-08-2014
OP - here are the Kansas regs for centers and FCC's. Nowhere does it say that providers are required to allow breast feeding on the premises.

http://www.kdheks.gov/bcclr/regs/ccc...l_sections.pdf

http://www.kdheks.gov/bcclr/regs/lic...l_sections.pdf

You can find these reg books at kdheks.gov/kidsnet
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craftymissbeth 01:17 PM 08-08-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Just got off the phone with them to clarify where she was looking. She referred me to the Kansas state statute 65-1,248.
I can't find that reg

Could you quote it from the reg book?
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craftymissbeth 01:22 PM 08-08-2014
Ok I see... That is NOT a licensing regulation.

http://kansasstatutes.lesterama.org/.../65-1x248.html


BUT...
if my policy is that I do not allow parents to "visit" during daycare hours then that means you may NOT breast feed here... because I don't allow visits at all. Therefore,


Originally Posted by :
(b) A mother may breastfeed in any place she has a right to be.
protects me because my policy is that parents are not provided the right to "visit". You may pick your child up and take them elsewhere whenever you wish, but you do not have the right to stay for extended periods of time regardless of the reason why.
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mom2many 01:23 PM 08-08-2014
I have had several dcms come breast feed their babies on their lunch. It has never been an issue...The other dcks were either eating lunch or napping and no one interfered with my business. They simply fed their child and left.

I believe it comes down to a good fit between all parties involved. I personally would not deny a parent the ability to nurse their baby in my home, but I would expect them to come to ME with any concerns they had & never approach another parent.

Open communication is imperative in a good working relationship caring for other people's children. I know I provide excellent care, but if a parent has concerns or questions about anything, I want to be the one they come to!

Your provider might be frustrated with this other child coming sick. She needs to realize how you feel and decide how to resolve this! For the well being of the others in care, I would seriously think twice about caring for a child getting others sick.

With that said, some babies can be more demanding and need more one on one care, even if they are healthy. I've had my share of challenging infants that didn't do as well in a group care setting. If you are unhappy and believe your child isn't able to receive the attention you want them to have, then you should talk to your provider about these concerns or look for other care if she is unable to assure you, this is not the case.
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nannyde 02:02 PM 08-08-2014
(b) A mother may breastfeed in any place she has a right to be.


Exactly. Where a mother has a right to be. You don't have a right to be beyond the front door of my daycare when I answer the door with your child in my hands.

Now what?

I don't allow ANY parents to hang out in my house. It's not personal. I don't care how the baby or toddler or school ager is fed. I don't have parents parenting on my property. It causes problems like parents having an opinion of my other daycare kids and feeling the need to confront the other parents with said opinions.
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Thriftylady 02:02 PM 08-08-2014
Those are the same regs I had in Kansas. It does not say that a parent has to allow you to breastfeed on premises. If you are having so many issues with care, then you should find a new provider. Looks like you have found issues everywhere you have gone, so perhaps a nanny would be more appropriate for you.
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Unregistered 02:21 PM 08-08-2014
I would hardly say that unsanitary conditions, inappropriate behavior, and violent/inattentive behavior are issues that just myself would have with providers. Being that my child is at daycare approx. 40 hours a week, I like to see where my child is staying. It personally allows me to better bond with my child and later have conversations about what they did. My daughter and I would frequently talk about what toys she played with, what art projects she did, etc. She enjoyed telling me about her day, and I liked being able to connect with her on that. Every daycare provider/facility I interviewed was more than happy to show me around and explain their day. I'm honestly floored that some providers are so secretive and defensive when it comes to that.

And there's a very big difference between confrontation and discussion...but some of you clearly do not understand that. I would never just go up to her and say "your kid is awful and keep him home because he's a little germ monster." That would be crazy.

And again, I consulted my DCP prior to breastfeeding. We arranged the best schedule for everyone involved. I essentially take one child off her hands for that hour..which is also her lunch schedule for the kiddos. I guess the providers in Kansas may want to double check and clarify with licensing if they are telling parents one thing and providers another.
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nannyde 02:23 PM 08-08-2014
Again, I called licensing to ask about breastfeeding. Home daycare are considered a business, but they are licensed by a state agency even though they are a private business. She said it's the same as breastfeeding in a privately owned store.

Yes and a privately owned store doesn't have to allow you into areas other customers are not allowed.

I can tell you that coming to this site has given me an extremely sick feeling about daycare providers in the world today.

I'm with you there. I'm EXTREMELY sick about how the average parent thinks they can force their way into my business policies and do as they please because they sprogged out a kid and can pay for child care by their own money or a child care grant.

I have never felt such a lack of respect and lack of understanding from a group of people.

You have been gifted with the truth. Now let it soak in. A provider isn't going to respect you because you conceived a child, gave birth, and then accessed a child care service. You don't get respect for that.

You have to EARN respect. You earn it by following policies and not throwing your "rights" around and expecting the provider to do as they are told.

You are just a parent. I'm just a parent. Being a parent doesn't mean you deserve respect. Our prisons are FULL of parents. Our mental institutions are LOUSY with parents. We have millions of emotionally crippled people because they had horrible parents.

Do you get that being a parent has NOTHING to do with deserving respect?




I don't know how your parents feel comfortable talking to you when if they mention one concern you will term them.

I have never known a single provider who has termed over a parent mentioning one concern. Who did that?


I guess I see nothing wrong with being an involved and concerned parent.

You can be involved by taking your kid to a park and spending time with them at home. You can involve them in church or mommy groups. You can get your involvement in something other than my policies.






I expect my children to follow the rules set by their provider. Just like in life, rules are different everywhere you go. I think it's good skill for my children to learn while they are young.


If you truly believed that you wouldn't be throwing your rights around when you get a no.

However, I disagree on some practices when it involves my child's health and mental well-being. I think any good parent would. If a parent continously sits back and says nothing and is all go with flow on everything, that would be the parent I would be the most concerned about.

You have the right to voice your concern with the provider. You have the right to remove your child and take your money elsewhere. What you don't have the right to do is have an opinion of whether or not the provider keeps the kid and if the kid sucks the life out of the provider by its neediness. You don't have a right to DISCUSS anything with the parent of that child. It's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

Do you want the service? If you don't then leave. That's your rights in a nutshell.

If I had a parent that told me they could come onsite and breastfeed any time they wanted I would term them immediately. I won't be bullied by a breastfeeding mom. I won't be bullied by a formula fed mom either so I keep it fair.

There's NOTHING special about how you feed your kid. There's nothing special about your desire to hang out in a child care. There's nothing unusual about your belief that you get to have an opinion.

What IS unusual is your complete lack of insight that the way you are behaving as manifested by your ORIGINAL post is the EXACT reason why it is very risky to allow a breastfeeding parent to feed onsite.

Can you at least verify with us that you can NOW see that your behavior is the POSTER PARENT behavior of why a provider says NO to breastfeeding onsite? Can you show us you have the insight to see that it would be lethal to our business to allow you in our business? Can you admit that the very rights you BELIEVE you have will loose us money? Can you see that our children have to be fed, clothed, and have a roof over their heads and that your behavior could challenge our ability to take care of our own "my child".

I can't allow you to breastfeed onsite because your presence threatens my ability to feed, clothe, and house "my child". This issue comes down to "my child" not yours.
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Thriftylady 02:24 PM 08-08-2014
Well you could always offer to pay double your rate and then she could afford to get rid of the other child and give yours more attention!
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craftymissbeth 02:35 PM 08-08-2014
I would hardly say that unsanitary conditions, inappropriate behavior, and violent/inattentive behavior are issues that just myself would have with providers.

You're right, but that needs to be addressed to the provider, not the parent.

Being that my child is at daycare approx. 40 hours a week, I like to see where my child is staying.

Yes, you're also right... but you can actually do that pretty well at pick up.

It personally allows me to better bond with my child and later have conversations about what they did.

Parent bonding really should be done on your time... not the provider's. Breast feeding at daycare because your child NEEDS to eat is one thing... doing it simply as a bonding moment is another.

My daughter and I would frequently talk about what toys she played with, what art projects she did, etc. She enjoyed telling me about her day, and I liked being able to connect with her on that.

This can also be a perfect bonding moment... at home.

Every daycare provider/facility I interviewed was more than happy to show me around and explain their day. I'm honestly floored that some providers are so secretive and defensive when it comes to that.

Oh, I am open about what we do here and I also show parents my whole daycare space... but not when other children are here. I don't know my daycare parents on a personal level. They could be anyone. I'm not allowing them direct access to other clients children.

And there's a very big difference between confrontation and discussion...but some of you clearly do not understand that. I would never just go up to her and say "your kid is awful and keep him home because he's a little germ monster." That would be crazy.

I didn't see anyone saying you would do that. But we know from experience that approaching a parent about ANY issue about their child is dangerous territory.

And again, I consulted my DCP prior to breastfeeding. We arranged the best schedule for everyone involved. I essentially take one child off her hands for that hour..which is also her lunch schedule for the kiddos.

That's awesome. I'm not willing to do that, though.

I guess the providers in Kansas may want to double check and clarify with licensing if they are telling parents one thing and providers another.

Actually, all licensing did was point you to a state law. They do not have "reign" over this particular issue because it's not in our regulations... they ONLY see over regulations. If we break another law while caring for children that does NOT go against what is written in the licensing regulations, then some other authority would oversee that.
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Unregistered 02:41 PM 08-08-2014
No NannyDe, I don't agree with you on pretty much everything. I think your rules are extreme, I think you presentation stinks, and I now see why many of you have your own daycares. You could not hack it at a facility with checks and balances. I'll be referring all additional questions to licensing.
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nannyde 02:46 PM 08-08-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
And there's a very big difference between confrontation and discussion...but some of you clearly do not understand that. I would never just go up to her and say "your kid is awful and keep him home because he's a little germ monster." That would be crazy.
.
Oh for CRYING OUT LOUD. You STILL don't see where you have NO right whatsoever to "discuss" or confront a mother about her kid? You don't get to say W-O-R-D-S and make it sound like it's okay to do it. You can't frame it with soft speak. You can't justify it. It is WRONG.

It's none of your business.

You don't get to decide.

It has nothing to do with you.

Just decide if you want to stay there or not. That's all you get. NOTHING else.

You are just a parent. You just access child care. Child care is a business that offer services. If you need a service that allows you to voice your opinion or concern or whatever else WORDS you can come up to another client with then you have to find the provider that is willing to allow that.

That is going to be very hard to find.
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craftymissbeth 02:47 PM 08-08-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
No NannyDe, I don't agree with you on pretty much everything. I think your rules are extreme, I think you presentation stinks, and I now see why many of you have your own daycares. You could not hack it at a facility with checks and balances. I'll be referring all additional questions to licensing.
There's a 1/105 shot we live in the same county... if you do, you're not likely to get any straight answers.

BUT...

I wonder why you are even bothering wasting licensing's time with the breast feeding thing if it clearly works out well for both you and your provider

It only became an issue HERE because you're claiming that licensing says it's against regulations... and it's not.


As for your original issue about the sick kid, many of us did answer that. Just talk to the provider, but don't necessarily push your opinion that they should be termed. You have the right to make sure your child is in a healthy environment. I get that.
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nannyde 02:50 PM 08-08-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
No NannyDe, I don't agree with you on pretty much everything. I think your rules are extreme, I think you presentation stinks, and I now see why many of you have your own daycares. You could not hack it at a facility with checks and balances. I'll be referring all additional questions to licensing.
Go for it.

Why the heck would a provider want a facility instead of a home child care? What does that mean?

I don't have to have presentation. You are a parent. You don't deserve a good presentation if you behave badly with your provider, threaten her business, and throw your rights around.

The only presentation that will be acceptable to you is the one where you get a big YES.
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nannyde 02:57 PM 08-08-2014
OP one more thing.

I believe you are incorrect as to what your rights are but let's say you are right.

We don't have to take you or keep you. We don't have to tell you why. We don't have to tell licensing why. We simply have to say that we will no longer provide service to you.

That's all we have to do.

If you throw your rights around me I will term you. I will term you for throwing your rights around me not for the rights you believe you have. Doesn't matter what right it is... the fact that you toss them at me will be the reason I will term you.

We don't have to mind you. We are our own boss. We are self employed. You are just someone who had a kid and put the kid in daycare. There's a zillion more someone's like you around.

The little secret you don't get is that if you behave with your daycare provider and stay IN YOUR PLACE as a customer... your kid will be loved, adored, and cherished because the provider will want to please you and keep you. The best way to get the best care for your kid is to be respectful of your provider and her business. One way to respect the provider is to LEAVE the child care if the business doesn't meet your needs.
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Thriftylady 03:31 PM 08-08-2014
I had a parent like you once. Only they wanted the infant in the crib all day when I wasn't holding her or feeding her. It was in Kansas and I simply told them the truth, I don't believe in that, as it isn't good for the child's development so don't bring your child to me. I didn't even give them any paperwork. End of story. I would have done the same with you. I do hope you realize that if you keep finding reasons to bash providers, you will in fact end up on the "blacklist". Meaning that no provider will touch you to do care for you. Providers do talk, so do center employees. Providers go to classes together to learn about things like breastfeeding and licensing and they talk. Perhaps you need some of those classes, so you can learn what the regs really are.
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Silly Songs 06:08 AM 08-09-2014
I think it's wonderful that she lets you come in to feed your child . But one thing you may not realize is that maybe she is paying more attention to sick baby while you are there because you are with your baby and he is content for that amount of time, now she can focus more on that needy child . I'm just guessing . Also , since your provider seems accommodating , she is probably also accommodating for the other mom , letting little fussy man come when he doesn't feel well.
Please don't judge all of us based on the replies of some . Yeah, some have been in this business a long long time and are just very blunt. Obviously that type would not be a good fit for you . I work in a center and we welcome breast feeding moms . Every provider has a different way to run things . Good luck with everything .
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nannyde 06:50 AM 08-09-2014
Originally Posted by Silly Songs:
I think it's wonderful that she lets you come in to feed your child . But one thing you may not realize is that maybe she is paying more attention to sick baby while you are there because you are with your baby and he is content for that amount of time, now she can focus more on that needy child . I'm just guessing . Also , since your provider seems accommodating , she is probably also accommodating for the other mom , letting little fussy man come when he doesn't feel well.
Please don't judge all of us based on the replies of some . Yeah, some have been in this business a long long time and are just very blunt. Obviously that type would not be a good fit for you . I work in a center and we welcome breast feeding moms . Every provider has a different way to run things . Good luck with everything .
That's a great point about centers. I didn't think of that. A center accommodating breast feeding is completely different than a home child care. The room is only babies with multiple workers who love to have someone to talk to in most instances. The center worker doesn't care if the kid leaves because she gets paid the same. She doesn't have to answer to hard questions as they go to the admin.

Iwatched cameras for nearly a year for two centers that both had very luxurious breastfeeding lounges. When the moms could feed in the nursery they came in droves. When they had to take the baby out of the room and go into the lounge they lasted a couple of weeks and quit coming. It was a GREAT hook to get in new clients though.

The center offered free formula for all babies and most breastfeeding moms came for a couple weeks to feed, then sent breastmilk for a few weeks and then switched to the free formula. Out of 10 breastfed babies only one would be on breastmilk thru the eleventh month. Most were on formula by the sixth month.

If the center offers in room feeding you are most likely going to have a good turnout.
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Sugaree 12:07 PM 08-11-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
That's a great point about centers. I didn't think of that. A center accommodating breast feeding is completely different than a home child care. The room is only babies with multiple workers who love to have someone to talk to in most instances. The center worker doesn't care if the kid leaves because she gets paid the same. She doesn't have to answer to hard questions as they go to the admin.

Iwatched cameras for nearly a year for two centers that both had very luxurious breastfeeding lounges. When the moms could feed in the nursery they came in droves. When they had to take the baby out of the room and go into the lounge they lasted a couple of weeks and quit coming. It was a GREAT hook to get in new clients though.

The center offered free formula for all babies and most breastfeeding moms came for a couple weeks to feed, then sent breastmilk for a few weeks and then switched to the free formula. Out of 10 breastfed babies only one would be on breastmilk thru the eleventh month. Most were on formula by the sixth month.

If the center offers in room feeding you are most likely going to have a good turnout.

I'm not sure that correlating day care facilities to breastfeeding rates is altogether accurate. My decision to BF/pump this long has nothing to do with what's available at day care. The center that DS goes to allows in room nursing and also provides free formula. DS is almost 14 months old and still gets pumped breastmilk and nurses at home. The only reason I don't nurse him on my lunchbreak anymore is that he's slowly gotten on the toddlers' schedule so he's often asleep during my lunchbreak. If he's not asleep he gets very upset when I leave and wakes the small babies up, so it's better that I just don't go even though I'd love to be able to spend that time with him. It also kind of sucks that right when I stop visiting is when two new babies start who have BFing moms. It would have been nice to have someone to talk to who gets nursing.
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Thriftylady 12:21 PM 08-11-2014
Originally Posted by Sugaree:
I'm not sure that correlating day care facilities to breastfeeding rates is altogether accurate. My decision to BF/pump this long has nothing to do with what's available at day care. The center that DS goes to allows in room nursing and also provides free formula. DS is almost 14 months old and still gets pumped breastmilk and nurses at home. The only reason I don't nurse him on my lunchbreak anymore is that he's slowly gotten on the toddlers' schedule so he's often asleep during my lunchbreak. If he's not asleep he gets very upset when I leave and wakes the small babies up, so it's better that I just don't go even though I'd love to be able to spend that time with him. It also kind of sucks that right when I stop visiting is when two new babies start who have BFing moms. It would have been nice to have someone to talk to who gets nursing.
Now I would have no problem with allowing you to come breastfeed, because you get it! You seem to understand that you are being allowed to do it and you won't cross the line to make it a problem for your provider, you are trying to be respectful. I get what you are saying about it would be nice to talk to other moms in the same boat, in fact when you are the parent of an infant, being able to talk to any adult can seem like a huge thing!
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EntropyControlSpecialist 12:22 PM 08-11-2014
I find it somewhat unsettling to hear that so many breastfeeding mothers quit breastfeeding, or send in minimal amounts (if any at all) of breastmilk, because a center or a home provider is not more accommodating. I am not saying provide your home as a lounge...but surely something can be done to encourage breastfeeding more. I get not wanting parents lounging in your business/home when you have your own schedule to maintain and clients privacy. But, there has to be a middle ground somewhere.

FWIW, I don't take kids under 2. None have ever had a BFing mom ask to come BF them. If they did, I would simply tell them I cannot allow any parents to hang out as it is a clients privacy invasion.
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cheerfuldom 01:58 PM 08-11-2014
Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist:
I find it somewhat unsettling to hear that so many breastfeeding mothers quit breastfeeding, or send in minimal amounts (if any at all) of breastmilk, because a center or a home provider is not more accommodating. I am not saying provide your home as a lounge...but surely something can be done to encourage breastfeeding more. I get not wanting parents lounging in your business/home when you have your own schedule to maintain and clients privacy. But, there has to be a middle ground somewhere.

FWIW, I don't take kids under 2. None have ever had a BFing mom ask to come BF them. If they did, I would simply tell them I cannot allow any parents to hang out as it is a clients privacy invasion.
What is the middle ground though? Not trying to start a fight but curious as to what a middle ground would be. It seems pretty clear to me that either you offer moms the option to breastfeed on site or you don't. Seems pretty cut and dry. I am not trying to minimize the challenge of breastfeeding for working mothers though. I have worked while having a young child, pumped in bathrooms and empty offices before....it is a pain! It is much easier to continue to breastfeed if you are home with your child or have easy access to your child during the day or comfortable pumping accommodation. That said, I don't let moms come either. It is ALWAYS a problem as this original post shows. Moms that were formally happy with your services have an hour or more each day to sit and watch and worry about things they never would have cared about before. They suddenly feel that they get extra opinions and special consideration and it just becomes drama.
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nannyde 08:45 AM 08-12-2014
Originally Posted by Sugaree:
I'm not sure that correlating day care facilities to breastfeeding rates is altogether accurate. My decision to BF/pump this long has nothing to do with what's available at day care. The center that DS goes to allows in room nursing and also provides free formula. DS is almost 14 months old and still gets pumped breastmilk and nurses at home. The only reason I don't nurse him on my lunchbreak anymore is that he's slowly gotten on the toddlers' schedule so he's often asleep during my lunchbreak. If he's not asleep he gets very upset when I leave and wakes the small babies up, so it's better that I just don't go even though I'd love to be able to spend that time with him. It also kind of sucks that right when I stop visiting is when two new babies start who have BFing moms. It would have been nice to have someone to talk to who gets nursing.
I just told my experience. I don't know if they are reflective of other centers.
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nannyde 08:54 AM 08-12-2014
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
What is the middle ground though? Not trying to start a fight but curious as to what a middle ground would be. It seems pretty clear to me that either you offer moms the option to breastfeed on site or you don't. Seems pretty cut and dry. I am not trying to minimize the challenge of breastfeeding for working mothers though. I have worked while having a young child, pumped in bathrooms and empty offices before....it is a pain! It is much easier to continue to breastfeed if you are home with your child or have easy access to your child during the day or comfortable pumping accommodation. That said, I don't let moms come either. It is ALWAYS a problem as this original post shows. Moms that were formally happy with your services have an hour or more each day to sit and watch and worry about things they never would have cared about before. They suddenly feel that they get extra opinions and special consideration and it just becomes drama.
I can't imagine it. I know some providers do it with success but I don't know what unintended consequences they absorb as a product of it. There are some providers who like the company but I don't need company.

Finding mothers who would behave would be tough. This op is really the poster child for no good dead goes unpunished. Even after explaining how toxic her proposition is she refused to acknowledge the harm to the business. This is a REAL life example of how risky it is to have parents on site with the other kids. Despite the obvious harm to the provider, my child and my rights ALWAYS prevail.
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Mom o Col 09:39 AM 08-12-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
No NannyDe, I don't agree with you on pretty much everything. I think your rules are extreme, I think you presentation stinks, and I now see why many of you have your own daycares. You could not hack it at a facility with checks and balances. I'll be referring all additional questions to licensing.
Unregistered, your problem is you can't handle the plain truth. It has little to nothing to do with Nan and her presentation. She gets down to brass tacks and tells it like it is. Personally, I prefer her "presentation" to sugar coating and petting any day.
Checks and balances in a "facility"? Ha! I worked in a facility for over ten years. Nope. All checks and balances meant was that the director's favorites could get away with things like wiping a kid's face with the same rag she just wiped the floor with; yanking kids by the arm; leaving the room to chit chat while her partner was left with 8 infants on her own. And those are just the tip of the iceberg. If I couldn't "hack it" in a facility it was for those reasons. I recommend (if you can "hack it") a book titled Doing Time. It may enlighten you. You will see that it's not always that darn child care provider but too often the parents who are the problem. I often say it isn't the kids I care for who are difficult, it's their parents.

http://www.amazon.com/Doing-Time-Rea...rds=doing+time
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Cat Herder 11:03 AM 08-12-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I can't imagine it. I know some providers do it with success but I don't know what unintended consequences they absorb as a product of it.

Finding mothers who would behave would be tough.


This op is really the poster child for no good dead goes unpunished. Even after explaining how toxic her proposition is she refused to acknowledge the harm to the business. This is a REAL life example of how risky it is to have parents on site with the other kids. Despite the obvious harm to the provider, my child and my rights ALWAYS prevail.
I am one of the providers who have done it with success. BUT... my playroom is separate from my family space so it works much more like the center lounge deal (parents can view the playroom video feed from the big screen in the living room without disturbing us). My routine was:

1. We set a daily schedule. down to the minute, if mom was late and baby was screaming I fed baby and mom pumped (instead) for my back-up supply. (I also offer formula included with tuition)

2. I had baby ready to feed upon arrival. Changed, freshly dressed, wrapped in snuggle blankie and gave DCM a fresh burp cloth. They stay in recliner in the living area of my home watching tv or reading.

3. When they were finished DCM called me by baby monitor. I placed infant back in their crib every time. No blanket, no snuggie, on their backs. I don't let DCM's put their own infants to sleep, here, because they 99% argue with the sleep regs and I simply don't have the patience to hear it any more.

4. If I had a situation that was requiring too much adult care (bully, needy or daily venting moms) or was too disruptive to the rest of the group, I had the freedom to say no more at any time. They knew I would, so it did not happen. You must have a strong backbone and be willing to lose the income for it to work.

Oddly enough, few take me up on it anymore. They prefer to send me a nice supply frozen and let me handle it.
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Angelsj 11:32 AM 08-12-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I can't imagine it. I know some providers do it with success but I don't know what unintended consequences they absorb as a product of it. There are some providers who like the company but I don't need company.

Finding mothers who would behave would be tough. This op is really the poster child for no good dead goes unpunished. Even after explaining how toxic her proposition is she refused to acknowledge the harm to the business. This is a REAL life example of how risky it is to have parents on site with the other kids. Despite the obvious harm to the provider, my child and my rights ALWAYS prevail.
I am not sure what you mean by that. I understand any possible "consequences" and while I am sure I have not seen it all, I have seen a LOT over the years. I don't particularly need company, but I don't mind it either.

Yes, it takes some doing. I have had mothers who did not want to follow the rules, and they often do not last long here. I find running a laid back, open home (think grandma's house) works for me. I am open to many requests that I see off-handedly denied by the majority on the forum. That is fine, but it does work for me.

All that said, I am NOT backing the OP. If I found out one parent was complaining to another parent about their kid during this time, I would be irritated to say the least, and let them know their concerns need to come to me. Even if you were there an hour every day nursing (and that is pushing it) you are still only seeing a very small window of time.
I encourage all my parents to talk to me if they have ANY concerns, but don't go griping behind my back. That is childish and rude, and I need to work with grownups as parents. I already deal with childishness from your child. I will not deal with it from parents.

I will say, like CatHerder, I find very few mothers take me up on this any more, a concept I find saddening.
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nannyde 11:35 AM 08-12-2014
Originally Posted by Mom o Col:
Unregistered, your problem is you can't handle the plain truth. It has little to nothing to do with Nan and her presentation. She gets down to brass tacks and tells it like it is. Personally, I prefer her "presentation" to sugar coating and petting any day.
Checks and balances in a "facility"? Ha! I worked in a facility for over ten years. Nope. All checks and balances meant was that the director's favorites could get away with things like wiping a kid's face with the same rag she just wiped the floor with; yanking kids by the arm; leaving the room to chit chat while her partner was left with 8 infants on her own. And those are just the tip of the iceberg. If I couldn't "hack it" in a facility it was for those reasons. I recommend (if you can "hack it") a book titled Doing Time. It may enlighten you. You will see that it's not always that darn child care provider but too often the parents who are the problem. I often say it isn't the kids I care for who are difficult, it's their parents.

http://www.amazon.com/Doing-Time-Rea...rds=doing+time

That is a great book. I have the first review on it. It is pretty highly ranked in Amazon if you consider how many books are sold there.

If you can't come up with a good argument with content then go for how it was said.
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Thriftylady 11:38 AM 08-12-2014
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
I am not sure what you mean by that. I understand any possible "consequences" and while I am sure I have not seen it all, I have seen a LOT over the years. I don't particularly need company, but I don't mind it either.

Yes, it takes some doing. I have had mothers who did not want to follow the rules, and they often do not last long here. I find running a laid back, open home (think grandma's house) works for me. I am open to many requests that I see off-handedly denied by the majority on the forum. That is fine, but it does work for me.

All that said, I am NOT backing the OP. If I found out one parent was complaining to another parent about their kid during this time, I would be irritated to say the least, and let them know their concerns need to come to me. Even if you were there an hour every day nursing (and that is pushing it) you are still only seeing a very small window of time.
I encourage all my parents to talk to me if they have ANY concerns, but don't go griping behind my back. That is childish and rude, and I need to work with grownups as parents. I already deal with childishness from your child. I will not deal with it from parents.

I will say, like CatHerder, I find very few mothers take me up on this any more, a concept I find saddening.
Since I am just restarting I am tightening up my rules some from the first time I did care. I have never had a parent ask to come breastfeed and until I read this post, I would have been open to it. But this post seems to show the possible consequences.
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Cat Herder 11:43 AM 08-12-2014
AngelSJ,


I think Nan means consequences like the bully mother, the venting mother, the needy mother and the "my child!!!" mother interfering with your day or pay.

Especially views like the OP states that decide which child is costing her child's happiness... from a fraction of the actual days viewing. Judging and condemning another infant/parent then giving an altimatum... my child or theirs.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 11:50 AM 08-12-2014
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
What is the middle ground though? Not trying to start a fight but curious as to what a middle ground would be. It seems pretty clear to me that either you offer moms the option to breastfeed on site or you don't. Seems pretty cut and dry. I am not trying to minimize the challenge of breastfeeding for working mothers though. I have worked while having a young child, pumped in bathrooms and empty offices before....it is a pain! It is much easier to continue to breastfeed if you are home with your child or have easy access to your child during the day or comfortable pumping accommodation. That said, I don't let moms come either. It is ALWAYS a problem as this original post shows. Moms that were formally happy with your services have an hour or more each day to sit and watch and worry about things they never would have cared about before. They suddenly feel that they get extra opinions and special consideration and it just becomes drama.
I honestly have no idea what middle ground there is. The only thing I would be comfortable with, if I had infants here, is allowing the parent to take them off site to breastfeed them and then returning them. I don't typically allow two drop-offs per day so to me this would be a compromise. You're right, though. I wouldn't want a Mom just sitting there inspecting my program when a.) I don't know her and her background b.) there is the privacy of other clients to ensure and c.) I simply don't allow adult participants in my program unless they are a trained staff member.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 11:56 AM 08-12-2014
Originally Posted by Mom o Col:
Unregistered, your problem is you can't handle the plain truth. It has little to nothing to do with Nan and her presentation. She gets down to brass tacks and tells it like it is. Personally, I prefer her "presentation" to sugar coating and petting any day.
Checks and balances in a "facility"? Ha! I worked in a facility for over ten years. Nope. All checks and balances meant was that the director's favorites could get away with things like wiping a kid's face with the same rag she just wiped the floor with; yanking kids by the arm; leaving the room to chit chat while her partner was left with 8 infants on her own. And those are just the tip of the iceberg. If I couldn't "hack it" in a facility it was for those reasons. I recommend (if you can "hack it") a book titled Doing Time. It may enlighten you. You will see that it's not always that darn child care provider but too often the parents who are the problem. I often say it isn't the kids I care for who are difficult, it's their parents.

http://www.amazon.com/Doing-Time-Rea...rds=doing+time
This is also true of my experience in daycare centers. I worked at two while getting my teaching degree. I worked at two expensive daycare centers in an expensive part of town. I reported child abuse and that employee didn't leave the facility until 2 YEARS later. Yes, years. I cited multiple people witnessing it and this was a videod facility. Actually, both of them were and the parents watched the videos but there WERE certain areas the video cameras couldn't see and the "bad people" knew about them. I said NEVER again and I have stood by that while a buddy of mine in my community works for the ONE large daycare center here and it is also filled with issues. To be a little more specific, rooms with very small children are left without an adult there for a few minutes at a time, children have wandered outside of the facility and are walking the streets, employees mistreat the children, etc. So, checks and balances? Not so much.
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Angelsj 05:18 PM 08-12-2014
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
AngelSJ,


I think Nan means consequences like the bully mother, the venting mother, the needy mother and the "my child!!!" mother interfering with your day or pay.

Especially views like the OP states that decide which child is costing her child's happiness... from a fraction of the actual days viewing. Judging and condemning another infant/parent then giving an altimatum... my child or theirs.
Ahh, Hmmm, no problem there. The ultimatum gets to leave. Immediately, if not sooner.

I once had a mother with three little girls. Loved the kids, and they were "perfect" parents. Paid on time, showed up on time, etc. I watched the girls for over three years.
One day, she picked up her kids and noticed the dad there to pick up two more. Dad was white, and kids were obviously not. She asked me if mom was "colored" (seriously??) then proceeded to tell me it was her kids or "those kids." I packed up all her kids' things and handed them to her, telling her she was no longer welcome in my home, as of right now. I don't do ultimatums.
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Thriftylady 10:37 AM 08-13-2014
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
Ahh, Hmmm, no problem there. The ultimatum gets to leave. Immediately, if not sooner.

I once had a mother with three little girls. Loved the kids, and they were "perfect" parents. Paid on time, showed up on time, etc. I watched the girls for over three years.
One day, she picked up her kids and noticed the dad there to pick up two more. Dad was white, and kids were obviously not. She asked me if mom was "colored" (seriously??) then proceeded to tell me it was her kids or "those kids." I packed up all her kids' things and handed them to her, telling her she was no longer welcome in my home, as of right now. I don't do ultimatums.
I would have done the same thing. Whatever did the poor father say? When we had foster kids, we had some African American boys and a guy DH worked with asked "are those all your kids?". DH answered yes and the guy said "so your wife used to be married to a black man?". I can't believe the nerve of some people like it was the kids fault they were with our family who loved them instead of their own.
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Angelsj 10:51 AM 08-13-2014
Originally Posted by Thriftylady:
I would have done the same thing. Whatever did the poor father say? When we had foster kids, we had some African American boys and a guy DH worked with asked "are those all your kids?". DH answered yes and the guy said "so your wife used to be married to a black man?". I can't believe the nerve of some people like it was the kids fault they were with our family who loved them instead of their own.
People are mind boggling. The dad was amazing...actually the whole family was amazing. After he recovered from shock at her audacity (and she had gone) he first said a very sincere "Thank you." Then he just chuckled and said, "Racism is alive and well in the 20th century."
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LysesKids 12:24 PM 08-13-2014
I have had people refuse to interview once they see my website... it
s very obviouse I accept everyone . Heck even my own grankids are biracial

Nowen days you can't discriminate and I feel sorry for the kids of those type parents
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suehelen 03:39 PM 08-13-2014
This thread is exactly why no breastfeeding mother will ever be allowed to come and breastfeed her child in my house during my work hours.
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Tags:breastfeeding in daycare, group care, sick - always, unreasonable parental expectations
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