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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Bigger Daycare?
midaycare 07:30 PM 05-18-2014
I am currently licensed for 6, but keep it in the back of my mind that someday I might want to be licensed for 12.
I'm trying to figure out if it is worth it. By the time I add in paying an assistant, It seems like the cost equals the same as if I only had 6 kids.
Is anyone here registered for 12 kids? Do you make more money?
I'm trying to figure out if it is worth it. By the time I add in paying an assistant, It seems like the cost equals the same as if I only had 6 kids.
Is anyone here registered for 12 kids? Do you make more money?
Blackcat31 06:34 AM 05-19-2014
I have 12 kids daily but in my state I can do that alone without an assistant.
daycare 07:04 AM 05-19-2014
I went from small 8 kids to large 14 kids,
because of the rules on the ages of kids, I only have 12 kids daily. 2 of those 14 must be school age kids and I don't do school age program.
In my state we must carry workers comp, so that is expensive, plus payroll, together its about $245.00, before you even paid someone.
I do make a lot more money. But you are not able to double your profit. So lets say my max potential is $10,000 with having 12 kids. Once I pick up kid #7, I then must have an asst here at all times, including nap times.
I don't have anyone working full time, because of 1 workers comp insurance and 2, I can't let them leave to take breaks, so I have them work 3 hour shifts. My husband is also here for about 3 hours of the day, so that really helps out a lot too.
So back to the $10,000. Using this example, I would have to pay out $245 in WC insurance and payroll and then about $1200 in employee pay. SO I would make about $8555 before full tax. If I only had 6 kids, I would only make about $4998, work alone and this is before tax.
Also, I have had to acquire some other cost like higher DC insurance and Higher auto insurance. YOu don't have to do this, I wanted to .
because of the rules on the ages of kids, I only have 12 kids daily. 2 of those 14 must be school age kids and I don't do school age program.
In my state we must carry workers comp, so that is expensive, plus payroll, together its about $245.00, before you even paid someone.
I do make a lot more money. But you are not able to double your profit. So lets say my max potential is $10,000 with having 12 kids. Once I pick up kid #7, I then must have an asst here at all times, including nap times.
I don't have anyone working full time, because of 1 workers comp insurance and 2, I can't let them leave to take breaks, so I have them work 3 hour shifts. My husband is also here for about 3 hours of the day, so that really helps out a lot too.
So back to the $10,000. Using this example, I would have to pay out $245 in WC insurance and payroll and then about $1200 in employee pay. SO I would make about $8555 before full tax. If I only had 6 kids, I would only make about $4998, work alone and this is before tax.
Also, I have had to acquire some other cost like higher DC insurance and Higher auto insurance. YOu don't have to do this, I wanted to .
spinnymarie 07:43 AM 05-19-2014
Depends on how much you pay your assistant 
I'm going to do a large daycare with my sister, so we are splitting profits. I will make marginally more than I do alone. If I were paying her less, I would make more
I'm going to do a large daycare with my sister, so we are splitting profits. I will make marginally more than I do alone. If I were paying her less, I would make more
daycare 07:49 AM 05-19-2014
I also wanted to add in that I am on the food program and if I plan out my meals for both my DC and family, I can almost cover 100% of my food cost.
I am very certain to make sure that I fill out my online food program stuff to the T daily so I don't miss out on any money.
I am very certain to make sure that I fill out my online food program stuff to the T daily so I don't miss out on any money.
midaycare 09:55 AM 05-19-2014
Thanks everyone! Definitely some things to think about!
Annalee 10:05 AM 05-19-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I have 12 kids daily but in my state I can do that alone without an assistant.
We can have 12 here in TN with one caregiver for Group if all are above age of 3. We have 12 but mom works with me and has the entire time. When she retires, I will go back to 7 which is considered Family and work alone. It works for mom and I, but financially, emotionally, physically, I think I would rather work alone than try to 'train' someone else. I have 12 kids daily but in my state I can do that alone without an assistant.
llpa 11:13 AM 05-19-2014
Originally Posted by midaycare:
I am currently licensed for 6, but keep it in the back of my mind that someday I might want to be licensed for 12.
I'm trying to figure out if it is worth it. By the time I add in paying an assistant, It seems like the cost equals the same as if I only had 6 kids.
Is anyone here registered for 12 kids? Do you make more money?
I am and I have the exact same feelings as you about this! The only way i can make more money is in PA, I can take 10 3-5 yos by myself. I still feel like I would need help but def not a second ft teacher. That is the only way it works out. If the dcks are younger then I am out of ratio after either 4 or 6 and then I would need another 4 or 5 just to pay for the second teacher and she can't work the weekly hour load I put in so she would need an aide or a third teacher to cover that.I am currently licensed for 6, but keep it in the back of my mind that someday I might want to be licensed for 12.
I'm trying to figure out if it is worth it. By the time I add in paying an assistant, It seems like the cost equals the same as if I only had 6 kids.
Is anyone here registered for 12 kids? Do you make more money?
melilley 11:37 AM 05-19-2014
I've thought about this too, but I decided against it.
If you think about it, take what you make a week now and double it. Now take away an assistant's wage and workers comp. Then you never know if you will be totally full or not so that's a factor. Even if you're not full, if you are one over then you have to pay that person. Also, what if your assistant can't work on a certain day or calls in sick or takes a vacation? You would have to have someone else come in or tell kids they can't come that day.
I'm not trying to scare you off,
these are just some of the things that I have thought about. I would love, love, love to work with someone, but to me the cons outweigh the pros.
I would sit down and write out a list of pros and cons and also write out a guestimate of a financial plan and maybe that will sway you one way or the other.
If you think about it, take what you make a week now and double it. Now take away an assistant's wage and workers comp. Then you never know if you will be totally full or not so that's a factor. Even if you're not full, if you are one over then you have to pay that person. Also, what if your assistant can't work on a certain day or calls in sick or takes a vacation? You would have to have someone else come in or tell kids they can't come that day.
I'm not trying to scare you off,
these are just some of the things that I have thought about. I would love, love, love to work with someone, but to me the cons outweigh the pros.I would sit down and write out a list of pros and cons and also write out a guestimate of a financial plan and maybe that will sway you one way or the other.
TwinKristi 12:52 PM 05-19-2014
I've considered it but live in the same state as "daycare" is and it's just too difficult to pull off for me. WC and wages are just too much to deal with and I can't guarantee I will fill the spots but will still have to pay wages and WC unless I had my dh do it, but God forbid we lose a couple kids we wouldn't have his income for backup.
midaycare 04:02 PM 05-19-2014
It does seem when I worked the numbers out that I would come out financially no better than I am now. I'm glad to hear I'm not crazy and that's about right. And yes - hiring an assistant - that could be a nightmare.
CapChildCare 05:08 PM 07-17-2014
we are in California and just got approved to go from 8 to 14 kids. We have had "volunteer" assistance. But with the growth of the business we need to hire and put everything on the books. The cost of the asst will go from 1200 to 2000 a month. INS will increase a little.
The hard part is Workers Comp that has been tough to find. State Fund wants $4800. An agent told me 1st COMP would be about $1600. but they wont insure new business.
Not sure who else is out there... that's a pain!!!
the increase of 6 new children will bring in $800-1000 per child. So about $4800 more a month. We have a LONG wait list. mostly for infants but we want to be full of 2 year olds!!
We are really lucky we can be selective with families and children and have a great group of kids that all love each other and have a good bond.
The extra cost are out weight by the extra income and really out weighed by the AWESOME Extra help we will have. These girls are Amazing and we view it as a Team not a DICTATORSHIP! Some people have posted and seemed to be real Witches to work for very strict and stern, No fun, no social media lots and lots of tasks and choirs. We take turns I even scrub the toilets a few days each week!
So that is a great part of growing, working with awesome girls, and having an ADULT to talk to and work with. And freeing me up for paper work. Take my own kids out to the park, pick them up from school, help out at school.
And we are able to provide our great care to more kids!
But the growing pains from being Solo with some help to a Real REAL Business is hard. So if your thinking of doing this. start working and planning 6 month ahead of time. State, Firemarshall, City inspections and regulations. And IRS, Taxes, Payroll, Workers COMP....
Gross income for 12 (14 minus my two kids) should be around 108,000. minus 20-24k for assistance (we pay $12 per hour they are worth it!) We are Net 84k. - 4800 for Worker Comp - 800 for Lib INS - 600 home owners. We are on the Minute Menu Kids food program so hopefully that will be at 100%. - Mortgage interest. Other Cost. We should NET 40-60K
So going Large will be worth it! right now almost check to check.
One of our goals might be moving into a Center in 3-5 years. maybe becoming a preschool. We will see how it goes.
Anyways, does anyone have good INS agent in CA? Good Work Comp refs??
Thanks
The hard part is Workers Comp that has been tough to find. State Fund wants $4800. An agent told me 1st COMP would be about $1600. but they wont insure new business.
Not sure who else is out there... that's a pain!!!
the increase of 6 new children will bring in $800-1000 per child. So about $4800 more a month. We have a LONG wait list. mostly for infants but we want to be full of 2 year olds!!
We are really lucky we can be selective with families and children and have a great group of kids that all love each other and have a good bond.
The extra cost are out weight by the extra income and really out weighed by the AWESOME Extra help we will have. These girls are Amazing and we view it as a Team not a DICTATORSHIP! Some people have posted and seemed to be real Witches to work for very strict and stern, No fun, no social media lots and lots of tasks and choirs. We take turns I even scrub the toilets a few days each week!
So that is a great part of growing, working with awesome girls, and having an ADULT to talk to and work with. And freeing me up for paper work. Take my own kids out to the park, pick them up from school, help out at school.
And we are able to provide our great care to more kids!
But the growing pains from being Solo with some help to a Real REAL Business is hard. So if your thinking of doing this. start working and planning 6 month ahead of time. State, Firemarshall, City inspections and regulations. And IRS, Taxes, Payroll, Workers COMP....
Gross income for 12 (14 minus my two kids) should be around 108,000. minus 20-24k for assistance (we pay $12 per hour they are worth it!) We are Net 84k. - 4800 for Worker Comp - 800 for Lib INS - 600 home owners. We are on the Minute Menu Kids food program so hopefully that will be at 100%. - Mortgage interest. Other Cost. We should NET 40-60K
So going Large will be worth it! right now almost check to check.
One of our goals might be moving into a Center in 3-5 years. maybe becoming a preschool. We will see how it goes.
Anyways, does anyone have good INS agent in CA? Good Work Comp refs??
Thanks
LysesKids 06:18 PM 07-17-2014
Originally Posted by Annalee:
We can have 12 here in TN with one caregiver for Group if all are above age of 3. We have 12 but mom works with me and has the entire time. When she retires, I will go back to 7 which is considered Family and work alone. It works for mom and I, but financially, emotionally, physically, I think I would rather work alone than try to 'train' someone else.
I understand that... I would hate to train someone to work even part time; I do fine by myself with my under 4, 1-24 month old babiesWe can have 12 here in TN with one caregiver for Group if all are above age of 3. We have 12 but mom works with me and has the entire time. When she retires, I will go back to 7 which is considered Family and work alone. It works for mom and I, but financially, emotionally, physically, I think I would rather work alone than try to 'train' someone else.
coolconfidentme 04:50 AM 07-18-2014
For what it's worth, I think the secret to having more kids is to have them within the same age range so everyone can enjoy one activity at a time.
midaycare 07:56 AM 07-18-2014
Originally Posted by coolconfidentme:
For what it's worth, I think the secret to having more kids is to have them within the same age range so everyone can enjoy one activity at a time.
I can definitely see this!For what it's worth, I think the secret to having more kids is to have them within the same age range so everyone can enjoy one activity at a time.
Blackcat31 08:21 AM 07-18-2014
Originally Posted by coolconfidentme:
For what it's worth, I think the secret to having more kids is to have them within the same age range so everyone can enjoy one activity at a time.
I agree to a point.For what it's worth, I think the secret to having more kids is to have them within the same age range so everyone can enjoy one activity at a time.
I have 12 kids every day and they rarely do the same activity all at the same time.
My age range is 7 months to 5.4 yrs old.
I think the secret to more kids is having enough activities/equipment to meet each age group's needs.
The days I am at max capacity run much smoother than the days I have only a few kids here. I don't know why exactly but that's been my experience so far.
daycarediva 09:18 AM 07-18-2014
I am licensed for 6 under 5years. 2 can be under 2 but I rarely take them, so no worries there.
I am full with a waiting list and have considered going to group- licensed for 12 under 5 years BUT I would need a FT assistant, my insurance would almost double, I would be required to pay workers comp AND state unemployment ins, plus would have to match the taxes for my employee. Even if I paid them minimum wage, the first 4/6 kids income would go DIRECTLY the employee/ins/taxes and the other 2 would be additional income. I would HAVE to stay at capacity for it to be cost effective in the long run.
Short term- I would have to purchase double my supplies. I only have a 6 kid table, etc.
The reliability of staff is a concern. My assistant/sub flaked on me already. I am a VERY reliable person and I couldn't hack someone calling in for the sniffles.
Then there is the time issue- I work 60 hours/week almost. I would NEED someone here AT LEAST 45 IF I could get later drop offs and earlier picks ups. Then that's OT for my employee.
Food- I am tier 2. It doesn't come CLOSE to covering the cost of food.
It isn't worth the hassle!
I am full with a waiting list and have considered going to group- licensed for 12 under 5 years BUT I would need a FT assistant, my insurance would almost double, I would be required to pay workers comp AND state unemployment ins, plus would have to match the taxes for my employee. Even if I paid them minimum wage, the first 4/6 kids income would go DIRECTLY the employee/ins/taxes and the other 2 would be additional income. I would HAVE to stay at capacity for it to be cost effective in the long run.
Short term- I would have to purchase double my supplies. I only have a 6 kid table, etc.
The reliability of staff is a concern. My assistant/sub flaked on me already. I am a VERY reliable person and I couldn't hack someone calling in for the sniffles.
Then there is the time issue- I work 60 hours/week almost. I would NEED someone here AT LEAST 45 IF I could get later drop offs and earlier picks ups. Then that's OT for my employee.
Food- I am tier 2. It doesn't come CLOSE to covering the cost of food.
It isn't worth the hassle!
rebekki78 12:08 PM 07-21-2014
Originally Posted by midaycare:
I am currently licensed for 6, but keep it in the back of my mind that someday I might want to be licensed for 12.
I'm trying to figure out if it is worth it. By the time I add in paying an assistant, It seems like the cost equals the same as if I only had 6 kids.
Is anyone here registered for 12 kids? Do you make more money?
My biggest problem has been a consistent assistant who shows up on time and actually makes it here when scheduled, and I am only licensed for 6! People are so unreliable.I am currently licensed for 6, but keep it in the back of my mind that someday I might want to be licensed for 12.
I'm trying to figure out if it is worth it. By the time I add in paying an assistant, It seems like the cost equals the same as if I only had 6 kids.
Is anyone here registered for 12 kids? Do you make more money?
rebekki78 12:11 PM 07-21-2014
Originally Posted by midaycare:
It does seem when I worked the numbers out that I would come out financially no better than I am now. I'm glad to hear I'm not crazy and that's about right. And yes - hiring an assistant - that could be a nightmare.
For me, it has been. But if you can find the "right" person that it could be so wonderful! Potentially anyways. There is so much to weigh on the decision. I wish you luck!It does seem when I worked the numbers out that I would come out financially no better than I am now. I'm glad to hear I'm not crazy and that's about right. And yes - hiring an assistant - that could be a nightmare.
DaveA 11:09 AM 07-22-2014
There's good points to each. I wouldn't grow past my current capacity (6) because a big part of my program involves going places and want to be able to fit everyone in my minivan. This way I can make the trips I want without having to coordinate another driver.
Plus if I got an assistant I doubt I would find another guy, and there's too many gossipy little old ladies in my subdivision. I'd be explaining myself to neighbors forever.
Plus if I got an assistant I doubt I would find another guy, and there's too many gossipy little old ladies in my subdivision. I'd be explaining myself to neighbors forever.