Daycare.com Forum
Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Need Advice Quick Please
Unregistered 11:28 AM 10-24-2013
Hello everyone Ive been lurking on this site for months but haven't taken the time to register but need advice quick. Ive been a child care provider for 20 years and never had this come up. I am very angry right now so forgive any typos
In at least ten years i havent had to use a substitute until today. I had an appointment I couldn't miss so I made all of my parents aware that my 20 year old daughter would be with the kids for maybe two hours today and even had them sign a paper agreeing to this. Mom comes in to drop off and says dad may stop by at lunch time to say hi to his boys because hes been out of town for a few days. I say unless hes taking them with him id rather he didn't come here when I'm not home she said she will tell him. So I leave and lock all the doors and shut my garage door which is always open during the day we use as an entrance and exit. I get home from my appt. And my daughter says he was here for like 25 minutes and left without the kids. He came to my back sliding door because the garage was shut. I am very mad he did this and plan on terming because of it due to lack of respect for me my home and my daughter. My question is should I term immediately or give a week notice. I have a letter for both. Please give opinions and advice. Thank you. I will take the time later to properly introduce myself.
In at least ten years i havent had to use a substitute until today. I had an appointment I couldn't miss so I made all of my parents aware that my 20 year old daughter would be with the kids for maybe two hours today and even had them sign a paper agreeing to this. Mom comes in to drop off and says dad may stop by at lunch time to say hi to his boys because hes been out of town for a few days. I say unless hes taking them with him id rather he didn't come here when I'm not home she said she will tell him. So I leave and lock all the doors and shut my garage door which is always open during the day we use as an entrance and exit. I get home from my appt. And my daughter says he was here for like 25 minutes and left without the kids. He came to my back sliding door because the garage was shut. I am very mad he did this and plan on terming because of it due to lack of respect for me my home and my daughter. My question is should I term immediately or give a week notice. I have a letter for both. Please give opinions and advice. Thank you. I will take the time later to properly introduce myself.
Luna 11:33 AM 10-24-2013
I think you should take some time to cool off. Terming is a big deal, so please don't do it while you are still heated. A few hours, overnight would be even better, then if you still feel you need to term you'll have a better idea of whether or not you can tolerate working through the notice period.
I'm sorry you and your daughter were disrespected.
I'm sorry you and your daughter were disrespected.
Unregistered 11:34 AM 10-24-2013
Is it possible that mom never got a hold of him to give the message and he was unaware it was an issue?
BrooklynM 11:35 AM 10-24-2013
Ugh! I would term without notice. I am sure that freaked your daughter out. It would totally freak me out if one of my DCP did that!
I find it really weird that they did this after you called up the mom and talked to her. Very disrespectful if you ask me. Have you had any other issues with these parents in the past?
I find it really weird that they did this after you called up the mom and talked to her. Very disrespectful if you ask me. Have you had any other issues with these parents in the past?
Heidi 11:37 AM 10-24-2013
I'd say go according to what your contract says.
I personally would not term for this unless this sort of thing is the last straw. I would, however, have a stern and direct talk with dad. Did the kids cry when he left? Are you absolutely sure he got the message? What if mom never told him for whatever reason (busy at work?)
You didn't ask, I know. Sorry. It's your decision to term, not mine.
Have they paid you a deposit? Would they use the care and then ditch you with an unpaid bill as revenge for terming? That would factor in for me.
I personally would not term for this unless this sort of thing is the last straw. I would, however, have a stern and direct talk with dad. Did the kids cry when he left? Are you absolutely sure he got the message? What if mom never told him for whatever reason (busy at work?)
You didn't ask, I know. Sorry. It's your decision to term, not mine.
Have they paid you a deposit? Would they use the care and then ditch you with an unpaid bill as revenge for terming? That would factor in for me.
butterfly 11:38 AM 10-24-2013
Term immediately. Total lack of respect. Coming through the back door and showing up after told not too... 
butterfly 11:42 AM 10-24-2013
I probably wouldn't even wait until pickup time today. I'd call them immediately to pickup their kids and tell them not to return. For a man to come over when your daughter was watching the kids by herself... I know I'm over protective of my family, but that would just totally cross the line in my book.
KDC 11:43 AM 10-24-2013
Originally Posted by Luna:
I think you should take some time to cool off. Terming is a big deal, so please don't do it while you are still heated. A few hours, overnight would be even better, then if you still feel you need to term you'll have a better idea of whether or not you can tolerate working through the notice period.
I'm sorry you and your daughter were disrespected.
I agree with this. I would address it, after I've cooled off and put my business hat on. Keep it calm, cool & collected or you might regret it. Just explain that it's a privacy issue, him being there with the other DCK's in your care for an extended time especially with knowledge you were away, is a big issue and it's too big of a risk for you and your daycare. Just be sure your ducks are in a row if you're licensed. Having a substitute, he could call to try to cause trouble if he's unhappy.I think you should take some time to cool off. Terming is a big deal, so please don't do it while you are still heated. A few hours, overnight would be even better, then if you still feel you need to term you'll have a better idea of whether or not you can tolerate working through the notice period.
I'm sorry you and your daughter were disrespected.
daycare 11:43 AM 10-24-2013
what does it say in your contract?
mine does say, one drop off one pick up per day per family.
I would not term for this, I would be talking to the family and letting them know that it was not ok and that if it happens again, you will term. Parents do need to be reminded of the rules. And like someone else said, it is possible that DCD did not get the message from the mom.
If DCM came and told me this, I would have called the dad myself and said, Happy to hear you are home from out of town, I am sure the boys missed you. Mom said that you wanted to come by for a visit, which is fine, but you will need to take the boys with you when you leave. If you can not take them with you when you leave, you will need to wait until after childcare to visit with your children. Thanks so much for following all daycare policies.
Has this happened before?
mine does say, one drop off one pick up per day per family.
I would not term for this, I would be talking to the family and letting them know that it was not ok and that if it happens again, you will term. Parents do need to be reminded of the rules. And like someone else said, it is possible that DCD did not get the message from the mom.
If DCM came and told me this, I would have called the dad myself and said, Happy to hear you are home from out of town, I am sure the boys missed you. Mom said that you wanted to come by for a visit, which is fine, but you will need to take the boys with you when you leave. If you can not take them with you when you leave, you will need to wait until after childcare to visit with your children. Thanks so much for following all daycare policies.
Has this happened before?
TwinKristi 11:44 AM 10-24-2013
I may get the full story from mom before terming and perhaps give them a stern warning that this is not to happen again. BUT the only concern I would have is access to the children. In my state we have to allow patents to access their children whenever they want. Drop-in or with notice, etc. There is never a time I'm allowed to tell parents "please don't come here" that I'm aware of. I have it posted in my entry and it's in my contract as well. I personally understand this was kind of a special circumstance, your first and only time using a sub and just to keep things easy it would be best to avoid a strange or unhappy situation, but just something to consider. There's a whole thread about what unhappy term'd parent can do to your business! If I did that I could face being investigated if they wanted to turn me in for denying them access to their child and terminating over it.
Eta- I just double checked my form and it states clearly that "parents can enter and inspect the home without advanced notice whenever children are in care."
Eta- I just double checked my form and it states clearly that "parents can enter and inspect the home without advanced notice whenever children are in care."
WImom 11:47 AM 10-24-2013
I'd get the full story as well from the mom. Call her during nap if you can. I would be steaming if this happened to me but wouldn't term unless like someone else said "it was the last straw".
Unregistered 11:51 AM 10-24-2013
Ive had a few problems in the past like bringing toys when told not to, random drop off times with no call dad tends to hang out too long at drop off. I know he got the message he didn't ask where I was and wasn't surprised my daughter was here. They are paid this week and most likely check is in the mail for the next two which I will gladly give back if I term immediately. Yes it did make my daughter uncomfortable she has maybe seen him a few times in passing.
butterfly 11:51 AM 10-24-2013
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
I may get the full story from mom before terming and perhaps give them a stern warning that this is not to happen again. BUT the only concern I would have is access to the children. In my state we have to allow patents to access their children whenever they want. Drop-in or with notice, etc. There is never a time I'm allowed to tell parents "please don't come here" that I'm aware of. I have it posted in my entry and it's in my contract as well. I personally understand this was kind of a special circumstance, your first and only time using a sub and just to keep things easy it would be best to avoid a strange or unhappy situation, but just something to consider. There's a whole thread about what unhappy term'd parent can do to your business! If I did that I could face being investigated if they wanted to turn me in for denying them access to their child and terminating over it.
I have the same regulation in my state, that parents need to have access to their children any time of the day. But the way that the parent came through the back door, That seems a little like trespassing when they didn't come through/to the main entrance. Why not ring the door bell, knock on the door, call the provider's home? That's just a little too creepy... I may get the full story from mom before terming and perhaps give them a stern warning that this is not to happen again. BUT the only concern I would have is access to the children. In my state we have to allow patents to access their children whenever they want. Drop-in or with notice, etc. There is never a time I'm allowed to tell parents "please don't come here" that I'm aware of. I have it posted in my entry and it's in my contract as well. I personally understand this was kind of a special circumstance, your first and only time using a sub and just to keep things easy it would be best to avoid a strange or unhappy situation, but just something to consider. There's a whole thread about what unhappy term'd parent can do to your business! If I did that I could face being investigated if they wanted to turn me in for denying them access to their child and terminating over it.
I also don't believe it's required to let the parents just hang out for 25 minutes. I think that's excessive. It becomes a liability issues for the other children's safety, dad could have even gotten injured while on the property - who knows...
I wouldn't put up with that.
BrooklynM 11:51 AM 10-24-2013
That's a good point, Kristi. I am also curious why you don't use your front door? Maybe I'm not understanding your set up. Everyone comes through my front door at my house, if they came through my sliding glass door, they would have to go through my back fence and nobody has ever done that. It would completely freak me out!
This brings up an interesting point about locking doors. Maybe I'll put up a post with a poll to see what everyone does!
This brings up an interesting point about locking doors. Maybe I'll put up a post with a poll to see what everyone does!
daycare 11:53 AM 10-24-2013
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
I may get the full story from mom before terming and perhaps give them a stern warning that this is not to happen again. BUT the only concern I would have is access to the children. In my state we have to allow patents to access their children whenever they want. Drop-in or with notice, etc. There is never a time I'm allowed to tell parents "please don't come here" that I'm aware of. I have it posted in my entry and it's in my contract as well. I personally understand this was kind of a special circumstance, your first and only time using a sub and just to keep things easy it would be best to avoid a strange or unhappy situation, but just something to consider. There's a whole thread about what unhappy term'd parent can do to your business! If I did that I could face being investigated if they wanted to turn me in for denying them access to their child and terminating over it.
Eta- I just double checked my form and it states clearly that "parents can enter and inspect the home without advanced notice whenever children are in care."
you are right, we can't deny access, but there is nothing in the rules that says that we can't force them to take them home when they leave. It is so hard on the kids to have to say bye twice to their parents in one day, super confusing. NOt to forget to mention that it is disruptive. I may get the full story from mom before terming and perhaps give them a stern warning that this is not to happen again. BUT the only concern I would have is access to the children. In my state we have to allow patents to access their children whenever they want. Drop-in or with notice, etc. There is never a time I'm allowed to tell parents "please don't come here" that I'm aware of. I have it posted in my entry and it's in my contract as well. I personally understand this was kind of a special circumstance, your first and only time using a sub and just to keep things easy it would be best to avoid a strange or unhappy situation, but just something to consider. There's a whole thread about what unhappy term'd parent can do to your business! If I did that I could face being investigated if they wanted to turn me in for denying them access to their child and terminating over it.
Eta- I just double checked my form and it states clearly that "parents can enter and inspect the home without advanced notice whenever children are in care."
There is also nothing in the rules that says that we have to allow them to stay and visit. I for one won't allow the parents to hang out with the other DCKs. Sorry, not going to happen here. I don't know the parents full background and they don't have the rights to play with the other children.
melilley 11:55 AM 10-24-2013
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
I may get the full story from mom before terming and perhaps give them a stern warning that this is not to happen again. BUT the only concern I would have is access to the children. In my state we have to allow patents to access their children whenever they want. Drop-in or with notice, etc. There is never a time I'm allowed to tell parents "please don't come here" that I'm aware of. I have it posted in my entry and it's in my contract as well. I personally understand this was kind of a special circumstance, your first and only time using a sub and just to keep things easy it would be best to avoid a strange or unhappy situation, but just something to consider. There's a whole thread about what unhappy term'd parent can do to your business! If I did that I could face being investigated if they wanted to turn me in for denying them access to their child and terminating over it.
Eta- I just double checked my form and it states clearly that "parents can enter and inspect the home without advanced notice whenever children are in care."
Same here, we have to have an open door policy. So I can't put anything in my handbook or policies that states that parent's can't come when they want to. I see that many providers have a policy about this, but their state must not have the open door policy rule.?I may get the full story from mom before terming and perhaps give them a stern warning that this is not to happen again. BUT the only concern I would have is access to the children. In my state we have to allow patents to access their children whenever they want. Drop-in or with notice, etc. There is never a time I'm allowed to tell parents "please don't come here" that I'm aware of. I have it posted in my entry and it's in my contract as well. I personally understand this was kind of a special circumstance, your first and only time using a sub and just to keep things easy it would be best to avoid a strange or unhappy situation, but just something to consider. There's a whole thread about what unhappy term'd parent can do to your business! If I did that I could face being investigated if they wanted to turn me in for denying them access to their child and terminating over it.
Eta- I just double checked my form and it states clearly that "parents can enter and inspect the home without advanced notice whenever children are in care."
Unregistered 12:00 PM 10-24-2013
You could say that he was not denied access to the children, as he was permitted to come pick them up. He was just denied being able to come in and visit when the provider was not there. I can see how it would be disruptive as the children already have someone new watching over them, and a visitor shows up too. You made a request and they chose not to honor it. Consequences may result from their choice.
Unregistered 12:01 PM 10-24-2013
Also because my approved sub was not available today the letter mom signed stated that due to an appointment my daycare will be closed on Oct. 24 from 10-12. My daughter is offering babysitting services for families who need them please sign if you would like to take her up on this offer. Not sure if that makes it better or worse.
Willow 12:03 PM 10-24-2013
It's always been my understanding that for my states regs a person has to be background checked through the county to just come in and hang around like that. Yes parents have to have access to their own children, but that no one knows him from Peter or Paul and he had extended access to everyone elses children when the rules were explicitly relayed to mom is what's most concerning here for me.
Parents picking up and dropping off is one thing, but my home is not a social hang out for strangers. How would they feel if another strage parent had access to their child like that???
If mom did not relay the information that's not your fault or problem.
If I didn't term I'd make it crystal clear that what he did was COMPLETELY out of line.
To me it's pretty obvious they didn't trust your judgment as far as your daughter filling in goes and that would be an issue for me too. I'd interpret what he did as spying, and she had every reason to feel creeped out.
OP, go with your gut. Youve been doing this a long time and come across as a reasonable person. If it crossed a line for you don't feel bad about terming effective immediately. If your feeling is that you were disrespected and your home was violated I certainly wouldnt hesitate to do so.
Parents picking up and dropping off is one thing, but my home is not a social hang out for strangers. How would they feel if another strage parent had access to their child like that???
If mom did not relay the information that's not your fault or problem.
If I didn't term I'd make it crystal clear that what he did was COMPLETELY out of line.
To me it's pretty obvious they didn't trust your judgment as far as your daughter filling in goes and that would be an issue for me too. I'd interpret what he did as spying, and she had every reason to feel creeped out.
OP, go with your gut. Youve been doing this a long time and come across as a reasonable person. If it crossed a line for you don't feel bad about terming effective immediately. If your feeling is that you were disrespected and your home was violated I certainly wouldnt hesitate to do so.
butterfly 12:05 PM 10-24-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Also because my approved sub was not available today the letter mom signed stated that due to an appointment my daycare will be closed on Oct. 24 from 10-12. My daughter is offering babysitting services for families who need them please sign if you would like to take her up on this offer. Not sure if that makes it better or worse.
hmmm... technically you were closed so that open door policy shouldn't have to be upheld. But then it becomes an agreement with your daughter and the parents and she did let him in.Also because my approved sub was not available today the letter mom signed stated that due to an appointment my daycare will be closed on Oct. 24 from 10-12. My daughter is offering babysitting services for families who need them please sign if you would like to take her up on this offer. Not sure if that makes it better or worse.
But it is your house and you told mom to not let that happen.
Now, I'm not so sure where I stand. I'd still be creeped out and angry but I'm not so sure I could term over it now, since it was an understanding that I was "closed". ...
daycare 12:21 PM 10-24-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:
It's always been my understanding that for my states regs a person has to be background checked through the county to just come in and hang around like that. Yes parents have to have access to their own children, but that no one knows him from Peter or Paul and he had extended access to everyone elses children when the rules were explicitly relayed to mom is what's most concerning here for me.
Parents picking up and dropping off is one thing, but my home is not a social hang out for strangers. How would they feel if another strage parent had access to their child like that???
If mom did not relay the information that's not your fault or problem.
If I didn't term I'd make it crystal clear that what he did was COMPLETELY out of line.
To me it's pretty obvious they didn't trust your judgment as far as your daughter filling in goes and that would be an issue for me too. I'd interpret what he did as spying, and she had every reason to feel creeped out.
OP, go with your gut. Youve been doing this a long time and come across as a reasonable person. If it crossed a line for you don't feel bad about terming effective immediately. If your feeling is that you were disrespected and your home was violated I certainly wouldnt hesitate to do so.
This exactly..It's always been my understanding that for my states regs a person has to be background checked through the county to just come in and hang around like that. Yes parents have to have access to their own children, but that no one knows him from Peter or Paul and he had extended access to everyone elses children when the rules were explicitly relayed to mom is what's most concerning here for me.
Parents picking up and dropping off is one thing, but my home is not a social hang out for strangers. How would they feel if another strage parent had access to their child like that???
If mom did not relay the information that's not your fault or problem.
If I didn't term I'd make it crystal clear that what he did was COMPLETELY out of line.
To me it's pretty obvious they didn't trust your judgment as far as your daughter filling in goes and that would be an issue for me too. I'd interpret what he did as spying, and she had every reason to feel creeped out.
OP, go with your gut. Youve been doing this a long time and come across as a reasonable person. If it crossed a line for you don't feel bad about terming effective immediately. If your feeling is that you were disrespected and your home was violated I certainly wouldnt hesitate to do so.
years ago my SIL was married to a read WINNER.... well my SIL had her child here in my care and I would allow for them to stay for a few to visit because they were family.
My niece was only here for about 3 weeks. Well long story short, it turned out that my SIL was hiding from us that her now ex-husband, my nieces father is a registered S E X offender and yes it was a crime involving children. I was so angry at my SIL from keeping this from me. This man was in my home, my daycare and often hung out for about 20-30 minutes with all of these kids. Of course, I was always right there and thank goodness nothing happened, but as you said it, you never know.
Unregistered 12:28 PM 10-24-2013
Disrespectful parents are the worst. At interview i make it very clear that my house its not to be used as a point of visitation, ever, for no one, not for gramma, aunt , dad divorce parents , etc. Now if anyone in the family including Dad wants to stop by and see his kids, they need to come and pick them up and take them home! visitors are not allowed to hang around here in my home, visiting on my time, and they are also not allowed to bring them back again once they pick them up.
Its not your problem if Dad had not seen the kids in days, why not just pick them up early and take them with him? He needs to see them on his OWN TIME at his house.
Parents always have access to THEIR KIDS, they can pick them up, not stay and hang around,they have not been fingerprinted.
I would talk to the family and make my policies very clear, they didn't care that your daughter was there, clearly disrespectful.
I had dumb requests in the past like,can my cousin from out of town stop by and visit baby?he's in town today..No, I don't know the cousin from Adam, and he's not on the pick up list. Can my friend hang around tomorrow? No. Can my gramma stop by and visit child sometimes?No. if gramma has time to see child, visitation needs to happen at her house on her time. Can I stay for a couple of hours at drop off and play with my child? No, if you have time, don't drop off until your'e ready, Im sure im missing some more examples.Can the babys real dad stop by and see him. No handle your visitation on your time and not at daycare..I do not supervise adults...
Its not your problem if Dad had not seen the kids in days, why not just pick them up early and take them with him? He needs to see them on his OWN TIME at his house.
Parents always have access to THEIR KIDS, they can pick them up, not stay and hang around,they have not been fingerprinted.
I would talk to the family and make my policies very clear, they didn't care that your daughter was there, clearly disrespectful.
I had dumb requests in the past like,can my cousin from out of town stop by and visit baby?he's in town today..No, I don't know the cousin from Adam, and he's not on the pick up list. Can my friend hang around tomorrow? No. Can my gramma stop by and visit child sometimes?No. if gramma has time to see child, visitation needs to happen at her house on her time. Can I stay for a couple of hours at drop off and play with my child? No, if you have time, don't drop off until your'e ready, Im sure im missing some more examples.Can the babys real dad stop by and see him. No handle your visitation on your time and not at daycare..I do not supervise adults...
Margarete 02:09 PM 10-24-2013
This may be a not understanding what you meant. "I would rather he didn't come, unless..." may not come off as a NO, don't come to them. It's quite likely they didn't realize how disruptive this was, or what you really meant. Don't term over just this... if there are other issues, that's something else... but this is most likely a communication/ misunderstanding issue that can be fixed (not for what already occurred obviously, but going forward).
coming in the back door sounds off, but I don't know what your set up is.
coming in the back door sounds off, but I don't know what your set up is.
TwinKristi 02:27 PM 10-24-2013
I completely understand why this was disruptive, rude, creepy, etc. but my point was that if she terms and they get upset, they could potentially claim that they cannot be denied access to their children and were merely checking on their welfare. I'm not saying that's what he was doing. I completely agree that I wouldn't want someone, anyone, just hanging out with my daycare kids. Unfortunately it's just something you need to communicate. Like I said, I would give a very firm warning that it's not acceptable and cannot happen. If you want to visit your children, do so at home, not at my facility. I 100% agree with this BUT the OP didn't say "no absolutely not" but "I'd rather he didn't" and maybe dad took that and said "well I would rather see my kids than wait for tonight" since he missed his kids.
Personally I would put it in writing that they are to have access to their children while in your care, but your place of business has other children here as well and for the safety of their children as well as the others, we don't allow parents to just come hang out (unless they want to be finger-printed, TB tested, fill out a volunteer form, etc.) We simply cannot have random parents or family members just hanging out for more than a few mins at drop off and pickup. This letter serves as a formal warning and if there is another need for a formal warning you will terminate services immediately.
That's just me though. If this crosses a line for you than by all means terminate. But for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction and that would be my fear.
Personally I would put it in writing that they are to have access to their children while in your care, but your place of business has other children here as well and for the safety of their children as well as the others, we don't allow parents to just come hang out (unless they want to be finger-printed, TB tested, fill out a volunteer form, etc.) We simply cannot have random parents or family members just hanging out for more than a few mins at drop off and pickup. This letter serves as a formal warning and if there is another need for a formal warning you will terminate services immediately.
That's just me though. If this crosses a line for you than by all means terminate. But for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction and that would be my fear.
nanglgrl 02:28 PM 10-24-2013
As far as having them sign something saying you were closed but your daughter would be offering babysitting services I'm not sure that would fly in my state. It might be kind of a loophole and I can't think of anything off hand in our regs that's against it but it does seem like something that would be frowned upon. We are allowed to have approved substitutes but that's it. We can have unlicensed/unregistered providers in our state but if your home is a legally licensed home in your state you might want to check if allowing your daughter to babysit, being paid directly from the parents, in your licensed daycare is allowed.
I know this isn't what you asked but thought its something you might want to check in case the parents try to use it against you if you term.
As far as what the dad did I would be mad too. We have to have an open door policy. Many providers (and even some licensors) take that to mean we have to leave our doors unlocked (not true) or let parents come and go as they please (also not true). What we do have to do is let parents pick up their child when ever they arrive. We are allowed to say that if they come they have to leave with their child and we are also able to advise them not to stay for long periods or come during busy or difficult times.
I know this isn't what you asked but thought its something you might want to check in case the parents try to use it against you if you term.
As far as what the dad did I would be mad too. We have to have an open door policy. Many providers (and even some licensors) take that to mean we have to leave our doors unlocked (not true) or let parents come and go as they please (also not true). What we do have to do is let parents pick up their child when ever they arrive. We are allowed to say that if they come they have to leave with their child and we are also able to advise them not to stay for long periods or come during busy or difficult times.
daycare 02:32 PM 10-24-2013
if the business was operational during your normal hours of operation whether ran by you or not, you are considered OPEN. At least in my state this is how it is defined
craftymissbeth 02:37 PM 10-24-2013
Originally Posted by nanglgrl:
As far as having them sign something saying you were closed but your daughter would be offering babysitting services I'm not sure that would fly in my state. It might be kind of a loophole and I can't think of anything off hand in our regs that's against it but it does seem like something that would be frowned upon. We are allowed to have approved substitutes but that's it. We can have unlicensed/unregistered providers in our state but if your home is a legally licensed home in your state you might want to check if allowing your daughter to babysit, being paid directly from the parents, in your licensed daycare is allowed.
I know this isn't what you asked but thought its something you might want to check in case the parents try to use it against you if you term.
As far as what the dad did I would be mad too. We have to have an open door policy. Many providers (and even some licensors) take that to mean we have to leave our doors unlocked (not true) or let parents come and go as they please (also not true). What we do have to do is let parents pick up their child when ever they arrive. We are allowed to say that if they come they have to leave with their child and we are also able to advise them not to stay for long periods or come during busy or difficult times.
These are my thoughts also. You said you were closed, but then provided a sub. Even though you called her a babysitter and that it was an extra service it still wouldn't fly in my state. I obviously don't know about yours though. Also, when you got back from your appointment did you "reopen"? As far as having them sign something saying you were closed but your daughter would be offering babysitting services I'm not sure that would fly in my state. It might be kind of a loophole and I can't think of anything off hand in our regs that's against it but it does seem like something that would be frowned upon. We are allowed to have approved substitutes but that's it. We can have unlicensed/unregistered providers in our state but if your home is a legally licensed home in your state you might want to check if allowing your daughter to babysit, being paid directly from the parents, in your licensed daycare is allowed.
I know this isn't what you asked but thought its something you might want to check in case the parents try to use it against you if you term.
As far as what the dad did I would be mad too. We have to have an open door policy. Many providers (and even some licensors) take that to mean we have to leave our doors unlocked (not true) or let parents come and go as they please (also not true). What we do have to do is let parents pick up their child when ever they arrive. We are allowed to say that if they come they have to leave with their child and we are also able to advise them not to stay for long periods or come during busy or difficult times.
I'm definitely not being negative... Just trying to see it from how licensing g here would see it.
TwinKristi 02:37 PM 10-24-2013
Originally Posted by daycare:
if the business was operational during your normal hours of operation whether ran by you or not, you are considered OPEN. At least in my state this is how it is defined
Same here. Not to mention it would then be illegal for your daughter to care for more than one family and she would be fined like $500 a day for running an illegal daycare in my state. Worst case scenario they could say you were off site and not supervising the children which is a big deal here. if the business was operational during your normal hours of operation whether ran by you or not, you are considered OPEN. At least in my state this is how it is defined
I have no idea if these parents would actually do anything after being term'd but it's a risk you take when you leave parents unhappy and without daycare. They start to nitpick and find reasons why you're wrong and they're right and they have a foot in the door with this substitute thing.
craftymissbeth 02:40 PM 10-24-2013
If I were in this situation and wanted to term this family I would wait until they make a move that is clearly against my policies... just since there is too much confusion on whether they have something against you or not, kwim?
daycare 02:41 PM 10-24-2013
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
Same here. Not to mention it would then be illegal for your daughter to care for more than one family and she would be fined like $500 a day for running an illegal daycare in my state. Worst case scenario they could say you were off site and not supervising the children which is a big deal here.
I have no idea if these parents would actually do anything after being term'd but it's a risk you take when you leave parents unhappy and without daycare. They start to nitpick and find reasons why you're wrong and they're right and they have a foot in the door with this substitute thing.
I am confused on the first paragraph..it would then be illegal for your daughter to care for more than one family and she would be fined like $500 a day for running an illegal daycare in my state. Worst case scenario they could say you were off site and not supervising the children which is a big deal here. Same here. Not to mention it would then be illegal for your daughter to care for more than one family and she would be fined like $500 a day for running an illegal daycare in my state. Worst case scenario they could say you were off site and not supervising the children which is a big deal here.
I have no idea if these parents would actually do anything after being term'd but it's a risk you take when you leave parents unhappy and without daycare. They start to nitpick and find reasons why you're wrong and they're right and they have a foot in the door with this substitute thing.
In CA, you can have an asst. run your business for you when you are absent. You can only be absent 20% of the time when doing this. Your asst. must have completed a full back ground, TB, First Aid/CPR and be 18 yrs of age or older....
TwinKristi 02:46 PM 10-24-2013
Originally Posted by daycare:
I am confused on the first paragraph..it would then be illegal for your daughter to care for more than one family and she would be fined like $500 a day for running an illegal daycare in my state. Worst case scenario they could say you were off site and not supervising the children which is a big deal here.
In CA, you can have an asst. run your business for you when you are absent. You can only be absent 20% of the time when doing this. Your asst. must have completed a full back ground, TB, First Aid/CPR and be 18 yrs of age or older....
Oh I know how to do it in a legit manner. From my understanding her daughter doesn't meet these criteria or she wouldn't have had the parents sign a paper for her daughter's babysitting services. It could have been a legit situation, but if not, the parents could potentially cause problems with that arrangement. She said she never used a sub in past so I don't think the daughter is cleared to watch the children alone under her license or she wouldn't have "closed" during that time. KWIM?I am confused on the first paragraph..it would then be illegal for your daughter to care for more than one family and she would be fined like $500 a day for running an illegal daycare in my state. Worst case scenario they could say you were off site and not supervising the children which is a big deal here.
In CA, you can have an asst. run your business for you when you are absent. You can only be absent 20% of the time when doing this. Your asst. must have completed a full back ground, TB, First Aid/CPR and be 18 yrs of age or older....
BrooklynM 02:50 PM 10-24-2013
Originally Posted by daycare:
I am confused on the first paragraph..it would then be illegal for your daughter to care for more than one family and she would be fined like $500 a day for running an illegal daycare in my state. Worst case scenario they could say you were off site and not supervising the children which is a big deal here.
In CA, you can have an asst. run your business for you when you are absent. You can only be absent 20% of the time when doing this. Your asst. must have completed a full back ground, TB, First Aid/CPR and be 18 yrs of age or older....
I think what she meant was because the daughter did not have any of those things. She was not fingerprinted, TB, First Aid/CPR, etc, then that is technically running an illegal daycare.I am confused on the first paragraph..it would then be illegal for your daughter to care for more than one family and she would be fined like $500 a day for running an illegal daycare in my state. Worst case scenario they could say you were off site and not supervising the children which is a big deal here.
In CA, you can have an asst. run your business for you when you are absent. You can only be absent 20% of the time when doing this. Your asst. must have completed a full back ground, TB, First Aid/CPR and be 18 yrs of age or older....
TwinKristi 02:52 PM 10-24-2013
Originally Posted by BrooklynM:
I think what she meant was because the daughter did not have any of those things. She was not fingerprinted, TB, First Aid/CPR, etc, then that is technically running an illegal daycare.
Yes exactly. Why "close" and have parents "sign up" for her daughter's babysitting services if her daughter was cleared to be a sub?I think what she meant was because the daughter did not have any of those things. She was not fingerprinted, TB, First Aid/CPR, etc, then that is technically running an illegal daycare.
daycare 02:55 PM 10-24-2013
lol got it.....sorry I am easily confused. I see what you are saying. In that case, yes you are right. She would have gotten into trouble for not having her sub meet the care taker requirements.
TwinKristi 03:02 PM 10-24-2013
This is all hypothetical of course, but just a risk she runs if she terms over this. If all your t's are crossed and i's are dotted it's not a worry, but when you start walking that fine line you run the risk.
daycare 03:06 PM 10-24-2013
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
This is all hypothetical of course, but just a risk she runs if she terms over this. If all your t's are crossed and i's are dotted it's not a worry, but when you start walking that fine line you run the risk.
this is a very very good point. IF this is the case that your daughter is not cleared to watch the kids and you let her, I would not be choosing now to kick up a fuss. I also advise maybe getting your daughter cleared....Again I am sorry if she is, just a suggestion if she is not.This is all hypothetical of course, but just a risk she runs if she terms over this. If all your t's are crossed and i's are dotted it's not a worry, but when you start walking that fine line you run the risk.
I would just be talking to the parents about it and let them know it can't happen again......
Unregistered 03:10 PM 10-24-2013
Dad picks up a little hectic here as usual but said I need to talk to you. Pulled him aside told him what I thought about what he did. He says mom told him through email I didn't want him to visit with the kids when I wasn't here says he didn't get until he got home sorry. (I don't believe him) I say you didn't seem surprised I wasn't here or even ask where I was. He says well I knew you had an appt. I say oh really because when I reminded mom this morning at drop off she says oh is that today I thought it was next Thurs. I have never discussed this day with dad. Though I don't believe him about not knowing I didn't want him here, if he remembered I wasn't going to be here that means he stopped by knowing my 20 year old daughter was home alone with these kids. I made it clear to him how mad I was he did apologize but said he wanted to see his kids. I told him I had a termination letter I was going to give him but will make my decision after ive had time to think about it and talk to my husband ( who is quite POed that his daughter was put in that position. Also we have always used our garage as an entrance there is a door from garage to laundry room where kids keep coats shoe etc. We very rarely use the front door but you would think if the normal entry was closed you go to the front door ring the bell not to back yard peer through slider. Thank you all for your responses I really needed to know if I had a legitimate reason to be this angry. I will register this weekend a fill up a new page on the venting board!
craftymissbeth 03:15 PM 10-24-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Dad picks up a little hectic here as usual but said I need to talk to you. Pulled him aside told him what I thought about what he did. He says mom told him through email I didn't want him to visit with the kids when I wasn't here says he didn't get until he got home sorry. (I don't believe him) I say you didn't seem surprised I wasn't here or even ask where I was. He says well I knew you had an appt. I say oh really because when I reminded mom this morning at drop off she says oh is that today I thought it was next Thurs. I have never discussed this day with dad. Though I don't believe him about not knowing I didn't want him here, if he remembered I wasn't going to be here that means he stopped by knowing my 20 year old daughter was home alone with these kids. I made it clear to him how mad I was he did apologize but said he wanted to see his kids. I told him I had a termination letter I was going to give him but will make my decision after ive had time to think about it and talk to my husband ( who is quite POed that his daughter was put in that position. Also we have always used our garage as an entrance there is a door from garage to laundry room where kids keep coats shoe etc. We very rarely use the front door but you would think if the normal entry was closed you go to the front door ring the bell not to back yard peer through slider. Thank you all for your responses I really needed to know if I had a legitimate reason to be this angry. I will register this weekend a fill up a new page on the venting board!
Dad picks up a little hectic here as usual but said I need to talk to you. Pulled him aside told him what I thought about what he did. He says mom told him through email I didn't want him to visit with the kids when I wasn't here says he didn't get until he got home sorry. (I don't believe him) I say you didn't seem surprised I wasn't here or even ask where I was. He says well I knew you had an appt. I say oh really because when I reminded mom this morning at drop off she says oh is that today I thought it was next Thurs. I have never discussed this day with dad. Though I don't believe him about not knowing I didn't want him here, if he remembered I wasn't going to be here that means he stopped by knowing my 20 year old daughter was home alone with these kids. I made it clear to him how mad I was he did apologize but said he wanted to see his kids. I told him I had a termination letter I was going to give him but will make my decision after ive had time to think about it and talk to my husband ( who is quite POed that his daughter was put in that position. Also we have always used our garage as an entrance there is a door from garage to laundry room where kids keep coats shoe etc. We very rarely use the front door but you would think if the normal entry was closed you go to the front door ring the bell not to back yard peer through slider. Thank you all for your responses I really needed to know if I had a legitimate reason to be this angry. I will register this weekend a fill up a new page on the venting board!
I don't really understand this... Did you, your daughter, your husband truly believe that she would be caring for all of your daycare children and there would be no possibility of face to face contact with a parent? If everyone felt so uncomfortable about her coming into contact with a daycare dad then she should have NEVER been put into the situation in the first place.
daycare 03:18 PM 10-24-2013
lets say what if a parent had a legit emergency and had to pick up their kid? Your daughter would had to deal with the parents....
butterfly 03:38 PM 10-24-2013
Originally Posted by daycare:
lets say what if a parent had a legit emergency and had to pick up their kid? Your daughter would had to deal with the parents....
I could be wrong, but I believe the bigger issue was that the parent lingered for 25 minutes and came after was told not to. It wasn't just a pickup - it was a visit during daycare hours and then leaving without their kids.lets say what if a parent had a legit emergency and had to pick up their kid? Your daughter would had to deal with the parents....
Unregistered 03:55 PM 10-24-2013
We wouldnt have been uncomfortable with her coming into contact with any of the parents if they had a reason to be here. I let them know yes he can come here at that time if he was picking up but not to hang out for 25 minutes to visit. I was gone from 10:30 - 12 so there was really no reason to expect anyone to come here at that time. If there was an emergency of any kind and someone did have to pick up I would have absolutely no problem with that. I really feel like their thinking was my kids are there and if I want to stop by I will.
daycare 04:09 PM 10-24-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
We wouldnt have been uncomfortable with her coming into contact with any of the parents if they had a reason to be here. I let them know yes he can come here at that time if he was picking up but not to hang out for 25 minutes to visit. I was gone from 10:30 - 12 so there was really no reason to expect anyone to come here at that time. If there was an emergency of any kind and someone did have to pick up I would have absolutely no problem with that. I really feel like their thinking was my kids are there and if I want to stop by I will.
Got it...... yes you have every right to be upset with this family and I do see where it looks like dad was full of you know what that he did not know...We wouldnt have been uncomfortable with her coming into contact with any of the parents if they had a reason to be here. I let them know yes he can come here at that time if he was picking up but not to hang out for 25 minutes to visit. I was gone from 10:30 - 12 so there was really no reason to expect anyone to come here at that time. If there was an emergency of any kind and someone did have to pick up I would have absolutely no problem with that. I really feel like their thinking was my kids are there and if I want to stop by I will.
Ultimately, you are the one who has to deal with this family, I think that you should do what you feel is best...
Heidi 04:22 PM 10-24-2013
I think you do have a right to be upset; mostly because you communicated clearly your expectations, and they were ignored. This shows a lack of respect.
Now, to be honest, I think your expectations were maybe not entirely fair. I get the "you come, you take the kids" policy...if the kids were or would be upset. BUT, if you leave someone in charge of your business (and the private babysitting bit wouldn't fly here either), they must be competent to handle ALL situations. Otherwise, this person (and I know she's your fantastic daughter
) should not be left in charge of the daycare.
So, you've got to do whatever you think is best. I think you handled it well with dad. You confronted him, but you let him know you were considering your options vs. just kicking them out right now.
I think you should consider how best to totally train your daughter (or another sub) to be 100% ready to handle all situations though. That's just my opinion, I don't mean to offend you.
Oh, and welcome to the boards! I hope you know that you'll often get not just the opinions you asked for here. There tend to be a lot of "cans of worms".
Now, to be honest, I think your expectations were maybe not entirely fair. I get the "you come, you take the kids" policy...if the kids were or would be upset. BUT, if you leave someone in charge of your business (and the private babysitting bit wouldn't fly here either), they must be competent to handle ALL situations. Otherwise, this person (and I know she's your fantastic daughter
) should not be left in charge of the daycare.So, you've got to do whatever you think is best. I think you handled it well with dad. You confronted him, but you let him know you were considering your options vs. just kicking them out right now.
I think you should consider how best to totally train your daughter (or another sub) to be 100% ready to handle all situations though. That's just my opinion, I don't mean to offend you.
Oh, and welcome to the boards! I hope you know that you'll often get not just the opinions you asked for here. There tend to be a lot of "cans of worms".