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Old 11-30-2011, 04:28 PM
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Default California Nap Time Laws

This question is directed specifically to those who work in California Daycare Centers, or are familiar with California laws pertaining to nap time in Daycare centers.

This question pertains to my two 3 year olds twins (37 months to be exact) who have transitioned from a home daycare to a daycare center (KinderCare). The transition was actually smoother than expected. They are enjoying it and are socializing, playing and learning more here than they would have before.

While in the home daycare and at home on Friday's and weekends they may or may not nap. They would lie down for a nap and usually fall asleep within a short time. However if an hour / hour-half has gone by and they are still awake, we would let them get up and resume playing. This usually happens about 1/3 of the time for either one of them and has been this way for the last six months. Otherwise, if they lie there longer than that, just like you and I, they will eventually fall asleep. In this case, they end up sleeping too long, their day is gone, they wake more tired, and are extremely moody. So we long since learned, it was better to let them get up and get on with their day.

On a couple of occasions when my wife has picked them up around 4-4:30, she has found my daughter still sleeping while other kids were playing around her. The reason she's still sleeping is because it took her an hour-half/two hours to fall asleep. We asked KinderCare to please let her get up if she has not fallen asleep after an hour-half, and if she does eventually fall asleep that late, to please at least wake her up by 3:00. They're response was that by law they cannot prevent a child from sleeping, and they cannot wake them up.

Now if this is true, at what point is it determined that they have not "prevented" the child from sleeping, but instead the child simple does not need to nap that day? Based on their response, it seems they will let a child lie quietly for the full two hour window; and if the child falls asleep 1hr 55mins into quiet time, they will let them sleep indefinitely. This to me is a form of forcing the child to take a nap. Who among us can lie quietly after a nice lunch for two hours and not fall asleep? I know I will. This does not mean my body requires daily naps.

I tried googling the California Law on this topic, but I can only find that daycare providers must allow a child a nap environment and quiet time. I don't see anything on time limits or not being allowed to wake a child. I know the issue of children napping comes up a lot, so there must be more guidelines on these limitations. There needs to be a clear definition on what entails quiet time. If the point is for the child to lie down, unwind, and rest with the means to nap, then 1 hour is enough. If his/her body requires a nap, it will nap. Otherwise, forcing a child to lie still for two hours straight when they do not require a nap is unnatural. Can someone help me understand how the law is written and/or point me to some documentation?

Thanks
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Old 11-30-2011, 04:49 PM
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I am from CA and run an in-home daycare. Not a center.

I have never heard of such a law about not being able to wake the children up, but I could be wrong on this.

There are several other providers on here more in tune with the State Regs. Hopefully they will give you some better answers than I.

Crystal where are you? lol
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Old 11-30-2011, 04:52 PM
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let me find the reg....I'll be back.
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Old 11-30-2011, 05:00 PM
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101230 ACTIVITIES/NAPPING 101230
(a) Each center shall provide a variety of daily activities designed to meet the needs of children in care,
including but not limited to:
(1) Quiet and active play.
(2) Rest and relaxation.
(3) Eating.
(4) Toileting.
(b) All children shall be given an opportunity to nap or rest without distraction or disturbance from other
activities at the center.
(1) A napping space and a cot or mat shall be available for each child under the age of five.
(2) Centers that serve children in half-day programs are not required to schedule napping periods or
have napping equipment for such children.
(3) No child shall be forced to stay awake or to stay in the napping area longer than the normal
napping period.
101230 ACTIVITIES/NAPPING 101230
(Continued)
(c) A teacher-child ratio of one teacher supervising 24 napping children is permitted provided that the
remaining teachers necessary to meet the overall ratio specified in Section 101216.3(a) are immediately
available at the center.
(1) An aide who is 18 years of age or older, and who meets the requirements of Sections 101216 and
101216.2, may supervise 24 napping children in place of a teacher if the conditions specified in
(c) above are met.
NOTE: Authority cited: Section 1596.81, Health and Safety Code. Reference: Sections 1596.72, 1596.73,
1596.81 and 1597.05, Health and Safety Code.
101231
CALIFORNIA-DSS-MANUAL-CCL
MANUAL LETTER NO. CCL-98-11 Effective 11/1/98
Page
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Old 11-30-2011, 05:02 PM
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So, based on the above regulations, from the Ca. Title 22 CCC licensing regs.
nothing bars them from waking a child. However, it does state:

"All children shall be given an opportunity to nap or rest without distraction or disturbance from other activities at the center"

So, if they are allowing other children to play around her while she is sleeping, they are violating THAT reg. So, I would use that to your advantage.

Here is a link to ALL of the CCC regs for California:

http://www.cdss.ca.gov/ord/PG587.htm
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Old 11-30-2011, 05:40 PM
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Hi Crystal,

Thanks. I searched through all that documentation. It makes no mention about waking them, so it seems you're drawing the same conclusion that I am. They should be able to wake them as her we requested.

You also picked up on something that I didn't. The fact that they are allowing the other kids to play right around her with all that noise and such, is a clear violation. This has to be taken into consideration as to what kind of quality sleep she is actually getting. We all know we can remain asleep, while hearing noises, and indeed be disturbed by these noises. Who wants to sleep like this! This actually bothers me more.

I will talk with them tomorrow armed with this information.

Thanks again.
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Old 11-30-2011, 06:47 PM
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wow!, we always wake up the kids at 3 p.m.
That's ridiculous.
They are missing out on activities and will probably have a hard time sleeping at night.
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Old 11-30-2011, 07:02 PM
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I let kids sleep from 1:00 until 3:30. I do the wake up call and open all of the blinds. If a child can sleep through that, then they needed the sleep. But I watch the kids going down and every single one of them will pass out the second their head hits the pillow. Some of the kids here, if I try to wake them before they are ready to get up, it's like the devil took over the little bodies and everyone suffers for the rest of the day..

I also communicate with the parents and always ask them if there are any sleeping issues at home. If they say yes, then I try to wake them at 3:30 every day.

I don't offer services for children who don't nap. My house is not big enough to offer space for non-sleepers and I work a very long day so this would be my time to catch up...
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Old 11-30-2011, 07:31 PM
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I feel it is unfair that they are allowing her to lay awake for that amount of time. I allow the children books, quiet toys, playdough, etc. if they do not fall asleep within 30-45 minutes. This RARELY happens, because my kids are wiped out and ready to crash at naptime from a morning full of fun and learning, but when it does, there is no way I'd make them lay there like that.

I understand there are providers, such as Daycare, who do not offer that, and I think it is great that they acknowledge that..... by doing so they prevent situations such as the OP describes.

The children playing around her is not only a disturbance to her solid sleep, it is also dangerous....they could easily trip and fall on her.

If my children are not awake by 3:00, I open the curtains, turn on the fan, and they start waking up. By 3:15 they are all awake and getting shoes on. Allowing them to sleep later will affect their nightime routine, and therefore their ENTIRE sleep schedule.

Good luck. I hope you can come to an agreement with your daughter's program that meets everyone's needs.
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Old 12-01-2011, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
If my children are not awake by 3:00, I open the curtains, turn on the fan, and they start waking up. By 3:15 they are all awake and getting shoes on. Allowing them to sleep later will affect their nightime routine, and therefore their ENTIRE sleep schedule.
Ditto here too except nap/quiet time is done at 2:00 p.m. for me. I don't know at what time your rest period starts but I start mine at noon so that they get at least 2 hours of rest time. I pick up my DD and other DCG from school at 2:30 p.m. so I can't go any later than 2 p.m. but the kids seem just fine with 2 hours of rest. Those that don't fall asleep within 20 minutes get to read quietly. Those that get up early get to play outside and I just check on the sleeping kids regularly (I can still see the nappers from outside). At 2pm I open the blinds and the others begin to stir.
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Old 12-19-2012, 01:02 PM
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Default Indefinite nap time

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Hi Crystal,

Thanks. I searched through all that documentation. It makes no mention about waking them, so it seems you're drawing the same conclusion that I am. They should be able to wake them as her we requested.

You also picked up on something that I didn't. The fact that they are allowing the other kids to play right around her with all that noise and such, is a clear violation. This has to be taken into consideration as to what kind of quality sleep she is actually getting. We all know we can remain asleep, while hearing noises, and indeed be disturbed by these noises. Who wants to sleep like this! This actually bothers me more.

I will talk with them tomorrow armed with this information.

Thanks again.
I am having the same issue with my son's daycare. I went to pick him up once and he was asleep while all the other children were playing. I have trouble getting him to be on weekdays only. I am trying to find out exactly what hours my son is sleeping and they cannot give me a start or end time. The teachers state that the director does not allow them to wake up the child. So, even though the nap time is 12:30 to 2:30, if the child is asleep they leave them asleep. They are not to wake them up. That is ridiculous to me. So I'm in the cycle - I can't put him to bed on time. I can't wake him up on time. And he is really crabby at daycare in the morning. I just can't believe how a director would tell me (the parent) we aren't going to wake up the child if he is tired. Um - I'm pretty sure after a two hour nap the child is not tired. Of course, it makes their job easier to leave the child asleep, I'm sure.
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by alicia View Post
I am having the same issue with my son's daycare. I went to pick him up once and he was asleep while all the other children were playing. I have trouble getting him to be on weekdays only. I am trying to find out exactly what hours my son is sleeping and they cannot give me a start or end time. The teachers state that the director does not allow them to wake up the child. So, even though the nap time is 12:30 to 2:30, if the child is asleep they leave them asleep. They are not to wake them up. That is ridiculous to me. So I'm in the cycle - I can't put him to bed on time. I can't wake him up on time. And he is really crabby at daycare in the morning. I just can't believe how a director would tell me (the parent) we aren't going to wake up the child if he is tired. Um - I'm pretty sure after a two hour nap the child is not tired. Of course, it makes their job easier to leave the child asleep, I'm sure.
I think one must remember that although no laws stop them from waking a chile up, there also arent any that say that they must be woken either. Some daycares.both centers and family child care homes, have their own policies and can do so as long as they dont go against state regulations. If your daycare wont wake your child up when you prefer then finding new daycare that can better meet your needs is a good option.
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by alicia View Post
I am having the same issue with my son's daycare. I went to pick him up once and he was asleep while all the other children were playing. I have trouble getting him to be on weekdays only. I am trying to find out exactly what hours my son is sleeping and they cannot give me a start or end time. The teachers state that the director does not allow them to wake up the child. So, even though the nap time is 12:30 to 2:30, if the child is asleep they leave them asleep. They are not to wake them up. That is ridiculous to me. So I'm in the cycle - I can't put him to bed on time. I can't wake him up on time. And he is really crabby at daycare in the morning. I just can't believe how a director would tell me (the parent) we aren't going to wake up the child if he is tired. Um - I'm pretty sure after a two hour nap the child is not tired. Of course, it makes their job easier to leave the child asleep, I'm sure.
I think one must remember that although no laws stop them from waking a child up, there also arent any that say that they must be woken either. Some daycares, both centers and family child care homes, have their own policies and can do so as long as they dont go against state regulations. If your daycare wont wake your child up when you prefer then finding new daycare that can better meet your needs is a good option.
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Old 11-25-2014, 02:24 PM
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Default preschool napping issue

My son, who is almost three, started preschool this past summer. In the 6 months he has attended this school, his nighttime sleep routine has been destroyed.

We start the nighttime routine at 7 pm with getting jammies on, turning down the lights and perhaps watching a quiet show or doing some other relaxing, quiet activity. at 7:30 pm we brush teeth and wash up. Then its reading time and lights out by 8 pm. What happens next is a battle, with Kieran doing everything he can to stay awake and fight sleep. Last night he did not fall asleep until 9:45 pm. We still have to rock him to sleep because no matter what we did when he was younger, he did developed the ability to self-soothe, just like his older brother...but, i digress.

the preschool schedule is this. open at 7 am. Children can bring their breakfast and eat at school from 7 am to 8 am. 8 am to 9:30 is play time. 9:30 to 10 is wind down and get ready to learn time. 10 am to 1130: is education time. 11:30 am to 12 pm is lunch...nap time is supposed to be 12 pm to 2 pm, however, what happens is this: the children lay down at noon, but the director/teachers do not start their "clock" for nap time until the last fidgety child settles down. What tis means is when I pick up my son at 4 pm, he has to be woken up so he can come home. all the other children remain laying down until who knows when. The have my son laying down for over 4 hours. its no wonder he doesn't sleep!

The director feels she is operating within the scope of the law, but I feel it is bordering on abuse/neglect by failing to recognize how this effects the kid's sleep schedule at night, and its also taking advantage of the parents by charging them $175 a week for 1.5 hours of educating, 2-4 hours of play time depending on when they arrive/leave, and a whole lot of sleep/quiet time. I feel she is ripping off the parents and harming the children.

Unfortunately, all of the schools in the area that will take a child who is not completely potty trained are full, so we are stuck until there is an opening. If I were to report the director for this problem, who would I report to, and where would I go to do it? it is not fair to my son to start his nighttime sleep by getting in trouble, nor is it fair to start his day grumpy because he did not get the rest he needs.

On weekends, he has free napping...we do not put him down for a nap. If he is tired, he sleeps and we let him sleep as long as he needs. There are rarely problems getting him to sleep wen he does not go down for a scheduled nap at home on the weekends...

( sorry for the novel, lol)
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Old 11-25-2014, 04:59 PM
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My son, who is almost three, started preschool this past summer. In the 6 months he has attended this school, his nighttime sleep routine has been destroyed.

We start the nighttime routine at 7 pm with getting jammies on, turning down the lights and perhaps watching a quiet show or doing some other relaxing, quiet activity. at 7:30 pm we brush teeth and wash up. Then its reading time and lights out by 8 pm. What happens next is a battle, with Kieran doing everything he can to stay awake and fight sleep. Last night he did not fall asleep until 9:45 pm. We still have to rock him to sleep because no matter what we did when he was younger, he did developed the ability to self-soothe, just like his older brother...but, i digress.

the preschool schedule is this. open at 7 am. Children can bring their breakfast and eat at school from 7 am to 8 am. 8 am to 9:30 is play time. 9:30 to 10 is wind down and get ready to learn time. 10 am to 1130: is education time. 11:30 am to 12 pm is lunch...nap time is supposed to be 12 pm to 2 pm, however, what happens is this: the children lay down at noon, but the director/teachers do not start their "clock" for nap time until the last fidgety child settles down. What tis means is when I pick up my son at 4 pm, he has to be woken up so he can come home. all the other children remain laying down until who knows when. The have my son laying down for over 4 hours. its no wonder he doesn't sleep!

The director feels she is operating within the scope of the law, but I feel it is bordering on abuse/neglect by failing to recognize how this effects the kid's sleep schedule at night, and its also taking advantage of the parents by charging them $175 a week for 1.5 hours of educating, 2-4 hours of play time depending on when they arrive/leave, and a whole lot of sleep/quiet time. I feel she is ripping off the parents and harming the children.

Unfortunately, all of the schools in the area that will take a child who is not completely potty trained are full, so we are stuck until there is an opening. If I were to report the director for this problem, who would I report to, and where would I go to do it? it is not fair to my son to start his nighttime sleep by getting in trouble, nor is it fair to start his day grumpy because he did not get the rest he needs.

On weekends, he has free napping...we do not put him down for a nap. If he is tired, he sleeps and we let him sleep as long as he needs. There are rarely problems getting him to sleep wen he does not go down for a scheduled nap at home on the weekends...

( sorry for the novel, lol)
Your kid is two.

Why is he still there? If it warrants a call to the State, it warrants taking him out immediately.

What time are you picking up? What are you doing with him once you pick him up?

Starting bedtime so early may be your problem. Start bedtime at 8 and bed at nine. Get him up by six am and have some family time, a good home cooked breakfast, family meal, and then off to care. If he gets up nice and early and has a food family time, he will be ready for nap at nap time. Also, get him outside every day to run and play when you pick him up. Do a couple of hours outside, have a nutritious supper and a low key bedtime routine at eight.

That should solve your problem. Good luck.

Last edited by nannyde; 11-25-2014 at 06:58 PM.
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Old 11-25-2014, 05:33 PM
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My son, who is almost three, started preschool this past summer. In the 6 months he has attended this school, his nighttime sleep routine has been destroyed.

We start the nighttime routine at 7 pm with getting jammies on, turning down the lights and perhaps watching a quiet show or doing some other relaxing, quiet activity. at 7:30 pm we brush teeth and wash up. Then its reading time and lights out by 8 pm. What happens next is a battle, with Kieran doing everything he can to stay awake and fight sleep. Last night he did not fall asleep until 9:45 pm. We still have to rock him to sleep because no matter what we did when he was younger, he did developed the ability to self-soothe, just like his older brother...but, i digress.

the preschool schedule is this. open at 7 am. Children can bring their breakfast and eat at school from 7 am to 8 am. 8 am to 9:30 is play time. 9:30 to 10 is wind down and get ready to learn time. 10 am to 1130: is education time. 11:30 am to 12 pm is lunch...nap time is supposed to be 12 pm to 2 pm, however, what happens is this: the children lay down at noon, but the director/teachers do not start their "clock" for nap time until the last fidgety child settles down. What tis means is when I pick up my son at 4 pm, he has to be woken up so he can come home. all the other children remain laying down until who knows when. The have my son laying down for over 4 hours. its no wonder he doesn't sleep!

The director feels she is operating within the scope of the law, but I feel it is bordering on abuse/neglect by failing to recognize how this effects the kid's sleep schedule at night, and its also taking advantage of the parents by charging them $175 a week for 1.5 hours of educating, 2-4 hours of play time depending on when they arrive/leave, and a whole lot of sleep/quiet time. I feel she is ripping off the parents and harming the children.

Unfortunately, all of the schools in the area that will take a child who is not completely potty trained are full, so we are stuck until there is an opening. If I were to report the director for this problem, who would I report to, and where would I go to do it? it is not fair to my son to start his nighttime sleep by getting in trouble, nor is it fair to start his day grumpy because he did not get the rest he needs.

On weekends, he has free napping...we do not put him down for a nap. If he is tired, he sleeps and we let him sleep as long as he needs. There are rarely problems getting him to sleep wen he does not go down for a scheduled nap at home on the weekends...

( sorry for the novel, lol)
I see what you're saying, really. But, can you imagine a room full of children, half of whom have been awaken against their will?

Many of my children nap 2 1/2 to 3 hours a day until Kindergarten. But, we live in a rural area, where getting up at 6 or 6:30 in order for parents to get them fed, dressed, to daycare, and themselves to work by 8. They also spend lots of time outdoors with their parents at night; tending to animals, working in the yard, or playing. By the time dinner, baths, and stories are done, it's 8:00. So, They are only sleeping 10 hours at night, and a 3 hour nap is essential.

I have had the occasional 4 year old who doesn't nap all of nap time. They usually stay on their mat (or nearby) and get a "nap basket" of toys and books. I guess the problem with an almost 3 is that they don't yet have any self control. They don't just play quietly while their friends nap. Most will raise their voice, want to move around, pester the caregiver, and generally make it tough for everyone else to sleep.

Maybe you could get him up a little earlier in the am, and start the bedtime routine a little later at night. Also, any electronics right before bed may be sabatoging your efforts. Even a "quiet show" send tons of info to that brain of his. It might just be too stimulating.
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Old 11-25-2014, 06:06 PM
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I had a parent who wanted me to wake their child up after only napping for an hour because she stated her child would not go to bed at night, because she slept too long here (2 hours). My licencor happened to stop by on a visit when this parent requested me waking her child up. So I asked my licencor and she stated that I was not allowed to wake the child up because of the child's personal rights.

I still woke everyone up at 2:45 since I had to pick up school agers. So my impression was that I was not allowed to wake her up if she fell asleep when the rest of the children fell asleep during nap time, but I can wake them up when nap time was over. Hope that makes sense.
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Old 11-26-2014, 08:01 AM
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I absolutely understand the concern of the OP.

However, it is my belief that to wake a child or to limit their sleep is to do them harm. (I would refer to the NAEYC Code of Ethics for support on this view.)

My program is very busy and active, and we don't usually have an issue with students needing the rest time. When a parent asks me to limit sleep, I tell them that everyone lays down for an hour. If a child is not yet asleep and ready to wake after an hour, they may get up and play quietly. However, if a child is asleep, I would not wake them. Now, it is hard to keep sleeping once the rest of the group is awake, even with a separate nap room. (I have had one student that I would wake, usually just by starting to clean up the nap space, because he would take 3 or 4 hour naps- once he was asleep, he would just keep sleeping. I believe that a two hour nap is usually good, and could see how a 3 or 4 hour nap was probably more than needed and would interfere with night sleep.)

If a parent asks me to limit their child's nap, I tell them that we can discuss options. Can the child forego a nap altogether? Depending on the child's age, I will give this a trial run. If I see that the child is exhausted and unable to have a nice afternoon because of lack of sleep, I will tell the parent that unfortunately I can not honor their request to keep their child awake.

Also, I find that parents are quick to ask me to limit the child's nap, without taking steps at home to remedy the situation. Is the child getting riled up close to bedtime? When did they eat and are they eating sugar at night? What time are they waking up? I would also go through the home routine with a parent, and work on that schedule as well, before agreeing to limit a child's sleep.

Also, it is very clear in my paperwork that our program includes rest time. That is our policy, and families are aware of this at enrollment. It may be that a family needs to find a programs that is more suited to their needs, rather than asking a program to change their clearly stated routines and policies.
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Old 11-27-2014, 05:54 AM
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Regulations where I live (Wi) require to permit children to get up and allow quiet activities to children who don't fall asleep after 1/2 hour or wake early. That's the extreme the other way.

My friend's child has never napped at his group center because he doesn't fall asleep in that time frame and is up running around in the large motor area with one other child even at 18 mo.
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Old 04-21-2016, 05:50 PM
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I know it's years later from the OP but just in case anyone wants to know, the reason the preschool teachers talk about not waking the children is because we legally are not allowed to make your child do something that they don't want to do. If your child is sleeping, they probably need it. I have children that stay awake the whole time because they don't need it. Forcing a child to wake up, though, is not legal and if licensing came in while a teacher was waking your child up the teacher could be sited for violating a child's rights. That's what it would say on the violation that had to go out to all the parents and new members--not "waking a child" but "violating a child's rights". That's why we don't wake children.
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Old 04-21-2016, 06:25 PM
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Having worked in centers (not California) we did not let the kids up between 1 and 3 pm because of ratios. Kids were required to lay on their mats the entire time quietly. Eventually they would normally fall asleep out of boredom.
You need less adults caring for kids during nap time than other times of the day so during nap is when the teachers leave the building to get lunch and take their breaks. I always thought this was kinda dumb myself. In the event of a fire or emergency it is going to take the people still in the building much longer to actually wake up sleeping children and move them outside safely.
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Old 04-22-2016, 04:17 AM
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Having worked in centers (not California) we did not let the kids up between 1 and 3 pm because of ratios. Kids were required to lay on their mats the entire time quietly. Eventually they would normally fall asleep out of boredom.
You need less adults caring for kids during nap time than other times of the day so during nap is when the teachers leave the building to get lunch and take their breaks. I always thought this was kinda dumb myself. In the event of a fire or emergency it is going to take the people still in the building much longer to actually wake up sleeping children and move them outside safely.
This is not the case in every State. In mine we were told that ratios are to be maintained no matter what the kids are doing.

I realize this is an old thread but I am dealing with a similar situation. I have a 3 1/2 yo DCB who is the first asleep and last awake every day. I've tried using gentle wake up techniques (pulling up the shades, turning off the fans, gently shaking his shoulder, etc) but it doesn't work. He is OUT. It's to the point where I have no choice but to take his mat, pillow and blanket away from him while he's half asleep. it's the only way he gets up and moving.

I think the issue is the parents still allow him to get up during the night, so he doesn't get good night sleep, then he tries to make it up here. But we have things to do and as it gets nicer out its not fair to the other kids to have to stay in because of he won't/can't wake up. And yes, I've talked to mom about it.

That said, if nap time is 12-2 then I do think having kids routinely still sleeping b 3-4 is off. In my state a child who is not asleep after a half hour must be allowed up and given something to do. Kids who no longer nap are not supposed to be laid down at all. Now, I'm clear that I can not take non-napping kids, so I usually don't have issues with parents over that. I get it, I love nap time too
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Old 04-22-2016, 07:00 AM
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I know it's years later from the OP but just in case anyone wants to know, the reason the preschool teachers talk about not waking the children is because we legally are not allowed to make your child do something that they don't want to do. If your child is sleeping, they probably need it. I have children that stay awake the whole time because they don't need it. Forcing a child to wake up, though, is not legal and if licensing came in while a teacher was waking your child up the teacher could be sited for violating a child's rights. That's what it would say on the violation that had to go out to all the parents and new members--not "waking a child" but "violating a child's rights". That's why we don't wake children.
I'd like to see the written law that says this please.

Can you link to your regulations where it says that?
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Old 04-22-2016, 09:02 AM
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I'd like to see the written law that says this please.

Can you link to your regulations where it says that?
It's not written. I've been "told" in a meeting with licensing that we "aren't to do anything to hurt a child's feelings". No where is it written. Most of what people come up with is embellished word of mouth. It's just like the old telephone came.
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Old 04-22-2016, 09:41 AM
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It's not written. I've been "told" in a meeting with licensing that we "aren't to do anything to hurt a child's feelings". No where is it written. Most of what people come up with is embellished word of mouth. It's just like the old telephone came.
Being told something and saying something is legal or illegal is completely different.

I totally understand licensing agents/reps/analysts saying what they think or feel but if its not written as a rule, I'd push back and would never accept someone's word without that written back up.
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Old 04-22-2016, 09:58 AM
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It's not written. I've been "told" in a meeting with licensing that we "aren't to do anything to hurt a child's feelings". No where is it written. Most of what people come up with is embellished word of mouth. It's just like the old telephone came.
Well if that was the rule, I have had kids I wouldn't have been allowed to look at.
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Old 04-22-2016, 10:05 AM
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I have been told so many different things.

My County rep tells me that the kids need to be able to function as a group so that supervision is provided to all of the children. So my kids have to all get up when it's time to get up. Its just like any other time of the day.

lunch is from 12-1230, I will give you another 5-10 minutes to finish your food, but when lunch is done it's done and we all move on.

We run our daily routine, if a child can not participate as normal, we send them home. It states clearly in our County CDC, if a child is not able to participate as normal they go home.

So if I woke a child up and they could not function, move on with the rest of the group, I would call the parent to come pick up. Hey not my fault if you left your child up until midnight and they needed a 4 hour nap instead of 2.
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Old 10-02-2017, 05:22 PM
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Default California Licensing considers it a violation of Personal Rights

If you read the "Personal Rights" that all parents sign when enrolling in a licensed day care facility in California (whether home or center), waking ANY sleeping child is considered a violation as it interferes with a daily living function. I have seen centers get written up for this.

"To be free from corporal or unusual punishment, infliction of pain, humiliation, intimidation, ridicule, coercion,
threat, mental abuse, or other actions of a punitive nature, including but not limited to: interference with daily
living functions, including eating, sleeping, or toileting; or withholding of shelter, clothing, medication or aids to
physical functioning."

There is nothing that prevents the center from allowing a child to who is not sleeping after a certain time to get up (that is the center's choice), but once a child is asleep, they cannot wake that child. After the designated "Rest Time" they can turn on the lights and provide typical services for the remaining children which will generally wake other children up, but they cannot physically wake up individual children.
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Old 12-30-2017, 12:15 PM
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After being home during holiday for the past week my daughter is finally sleeping through the night. She takes a 30-60 minute nap during the day, usually in the car while running errands. Napping at home is impossible but she needs at least 30 minutes. At school, also kindercare she is sleeping for two hours and then up every night at 2:30. The teachers will have the other kids wake up a student still sleeping past nap time, their way around the not being allowed to wake up the children so that's good. Now, I'm wondering if they can keep a child awake for the first hour with quiet activity then let them sleep for the last hour. They would still be providing quiet time and I would still get to sleep through the night. As for home routine, dinner is between 5:30-6, bath routine starts at 7 then quiet play time or snuggles. Bed at 9.
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Old 12-30-2017, 03:54 PM
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nap time here is 12-230. If the kids are not awake at 230 I flip on the lights, pull back blankets to there feet and turn off the music. Usually by the middle of snack, there all up! I have one child who rests a half hour then gets to get up and go to the main room and watch a movie. He calls it "going on break with teacher" because when all my darlings are sleeping its break time for me. Some days he chooses to sleep, others he goes on break.
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Old 12-30-2017, 11:09 PM
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After being home during holiday for the past week my daughter is finally sleeping through the night. She takes a 30-60 minute nap during the day, usually in the car while running errands. Napping at home is impossible but she needs at least 30 minutes. At school, also kindercare she is sleeping for two hours and then up every night at 2:30. The teachers will have the other kids wake up a student still sleeping past nap time, their way around the not being allowed to wake up the children so that's good. Now, I'm wondering if they can keep a child awake for the first hour with quiet activity then let them sleep for the last hour. They would still be providing quiet time and I would still get to sleep through the night. As for home routine, dinner is between 5:30-6, bath routine starts at 7 then quiet play time or snuggles. Bed at 9.
I think it is great your child is thriving with you at home. I am a HUGE sleep advocate and if your child is thriving with you being present maybe the challenge is not the nap time at daycare but the lack of quality time bonding with the parent.... When the child is in daycare/kindercare they are not seeing you or connecting with you for 8+ hours a day, they are seeing and connecting with you at best for a couple hours per day before bed. Connection plays a HUGE role for all parents, it is possible but you have to work at it, especially working parents . Often children stay up later or gets up early to "connect" with parents, etc. but they do not know how to express it.

I do not suggest group care to all families and personally my own daughter & I would have not been a good family for group care. If you find yourself wanting a custom schedule and individualized care I highly suggest you seek out the individual care a nanny provides. Group care really needs to cater to the best needs of the group overall....
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Old 04-03-2018, 12:39 PM
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With a 4 yr old, I feel that forcing them to lie on their mat for 2 - 2/12 hours a day where the child does not sleep, is child abuse. Not everyone needs the same amount of sleep, and I think that this is just an excuse for daycares to use this time where they can have only 1 person being with the kids and not having to do anything with them.
If a child does not sleep within the first hour,they should be allowed to go and sit in the reading corner or be put with other kids that dont sleep in a classroom where they can at least do something constructive.
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Old 04-03-2018, 12:49 PM
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I agree, it is hard for a child to be asked to sit still the entire nap time. Sounds like it's time for you to find a more age appropriate environment that better suits your child's needs!!
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Old 04-03-2018, 12:49 PM
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With a 4 yr old, I feel that forcing them to lie on their mat for 2 - 2/12 hours a day where the child does not sleep, is child abuse. Not everyone needs the same amount of sleep, and I think that this is just an excuse for daycares to use this time where they can have only 1 person being with the kids and not having to do anything with them.
If a child does not sleep within the first hour,they should be allowed to go and sit in the reading corner or be put with other kids that dont sleep in a classroom where they can at least do something constructive.
Many daycares offer exactly what you are describing. Find one that suits your child's needs instead of asking your current one to change their more affordable policies. Know that a no-nap service costs more because it requires more employees to cover lunches, planning and breaks.
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Old 04-03-2018, 02:02 PM
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Even full day kindergartens in California have nap/rest time for the first trimester of the school year. Then they slowly phase it out during the 2nd trimester. My dd’s Kindy teacher was phasing it out is hard, that most of the kids still fall asleep during the 90 min quite time every day.
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Old 04-03-2018, 02:06 PM
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The only time my kids don’t quickly fall asleep, is if we’ve been trapped inside because of inclimant weather and I have failed to give them enough gross motor play to make up for it. I keep children through age 6.
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Old 06-25-2018, 10:45 PM
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I work at a center in CA and we are allowed to wake the kids up, when nap time is over. We only have an hour nap period from approximanly 1-2. Not all of our kids will fall asleep. We have to wake the kids up by 3, as everyone goes outside then.
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Old 06-26-2018, 08:55 AM
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I think one must remember that although no laws stop them from waking a chile up, there also arent any that say that they must be woken either. Some daycares.both centers and family child care homes, have their own policies and can do so as long as they dont go against state regulations. If your daycare wont wake your child up when you prefer then finding new daycare that can better meet your needs is a good option.
Letting a kid lie there for 2 hours then letting it sleep until 4:30 is called being LAZY.
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Old 06-27-2018, 09:45 AM
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Letting a kid lie there for 2 hours then letting it sleep until 4:30 is called being LAZY.
Not necessarily.

Not all kids come from quiet, restful, subdivisions where they have a consistent schedule, full bellies and clean bedding every night.

We must meet their needs, too.
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Old 09-05-2018, 03:01 PM
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With a 4 yr old, I feel that forcing them to lie on their mat for 2 - 2/12 hours a day where the child does not sleep, is child abuse. Not everyone needs the same amount of sleep, and I think that this is just an excuse for daycares to use this time where they can have only 1 person being with the kids and not having to do anything with them.
If a child does not sleep within the first hour,they should be allowed to go and sit in the reading corner or be put with other kids that dont sleep in a classroom where they can at least do something constructive.
Normaly I would agreee I don’t like make them sit quiet for 2 hours, though it’s lincesing policy. Though I don’t agree it is child abuse. But if thier are a lot preschool kids in the reading area that could turn into a distraction. Example: Mentor J was reading Child K (only awake child) a stories (which I didn’t think we were allowed to do) they were booth loud, though no one woke up. If awake kids were all on the couch having preschool sit quietly for 2 hours is also a challenge even with a book. And people could proably make an argument that, be reading aloud is a distraction (see state code)
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Old 09-05-2018, 03:10 PM
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This question is directed specifically to those who work in California Daycare Centers, or are familiar with California laws pertaining to nap time in Daycare centers.

This question pertains to my two 3 year olds twins (37 months to be exact) who have transitioned from a home daycare to a daycare center (KinderCare). The transition was actually smoother than expected. They are enjoying it and are socializing, playing and learning more here than they would have before.

While in the home daycare and at home on Friday's and weekends they may or may not nap. They would lie down for a nap and usually fall asleep within a short time. However if an hour / hour-half has gone by and they are still awake, we would let them get up and resume playing. This usually happens about 1/3 of the time for either one of them and has been this way for the last six months. Otherwise, if they lie there longer than that, just like you and I, they will eventually fall asleep. In this case, they end up sleeping too long, their day is gone, they wake more tired, and are extremely moody. So we long since learned, it was better to let them get up and get on with their day.

On a couple of occasions when my wife has picked them up around 4-4:30, she has found my daughter still sleeping while other kids were playing around her. The reason she's still sleeping is because it took her an hour-half/two hours to fall asleep. We asked KinderCare to please let her get up if she has not fallen asleep after an hour-half, and if she does eventually fall asleep that late, to please at least wake her up by 3:00. They're response was that by law they cannot prevent a child from sleeping, and they cannot wake them up.

Now if this is true, at what point is it determined that they have not "prevented" the child from sleeping, but instead the child simple does not need to nap that day? Based on their response, it seems they will let a child lie quietly for the full two hour window; and if the child falls asleep 1hr 55mins into quiet time, they will let them sleep indefinitely. This to me is a form of forcing the child to take a nap. Who among us can lie quietly after a nice lunch for two hours and not fall asleep? I know I will. This does not mean my body requires daily naps.

I tried googling the California Law on this topic, but I can only find that daycare providers must allow a child a nap environment and quiet time. I don't see anything on time limits or not being allowed to wake a child. I know the issue of children napping comes up a lot, so there must be more guidelines on these limitations. There needs to be a clear definition on what entails quiet time. If the point is for the child to lie down, unwind, and rest with the means to nap, then 1 hour is enough. If his/her body requires a nap, it will nap. Otherwise, forcing a child to lie still for two hours straight when they do not require a nap is unnatural. Can someone help me understand how the law is written and/or point me to some documentation?

Thanks

Hi Crystal. I work in a CA lincesed Center. It is also a center for research And 4 hours does seem to long. We are allowed to wake them up. Nap Is from approx 12:30-2. (So 1 and 1/2 hour). Many teachers will wake up kids at 2. All kids/teacher need to outside by 3.
4 hours seems way to long.
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Old 09-05-2018, 03:13 PM
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Normaly I would agreee I don’t like make them sit quiet for 2 hours, though it’s lincesing policy. Though I don’t agree it is child abuse. But if thier are a lot preschool kids in the reading area that could turn into a distraction. Example: Mentor J was reading Child K (only awake child) a stories (which I didn’t think we were allowed to do) they were booth loud, though no one woke up. If awake kids were all on the couch having preschool sit quietly for 2 hours is also a challenge even with a book. And people could proably make an argument that, be reading aloud is a distraction (see state code)
Making a correction. Are Center only makes kids rest for 1 1/2 hours not 2. From 12:30 (approx) - 2. We wake kids up at 2.
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Old 09-05-2018, 03:42 PM
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Hi Crystal. I work in a CA lincesed Center. It is also a center for research And 4 hours does seem to long. We are allowed to wake them up. Nap Is from approx 12:30-2. (So 1 and 1/2 hour). Many teachers will wake up kids at 2. All kids/teacher need to outside by 3.
4 hours seems way to long.
This will no longer be the case come November/December in CA. Look up the new safe sleep regulation draft coming in, we can't force a child to sleep nor wake a child according to how it's currently written ... that's both center and FCC.
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Old 09-05-2018, 08:03 PM
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This will no longer be the case come November/December in CA. Look up the new safe sleep regulation draft coming in, we can't force a child to sleep nor wake a child according to how it's currently written ... that's both center and FCC.
Do you have a link to that? The proposed changes I’m seeing only apply to infants.
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Old 09-06-2018, 07:38 AM
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Do you have a link to that? The proposed changes I’m seeing only apply to infants.
I couldn't find it either.
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Old 09-06-2018, 08:01 AM
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I’m not from California and could be way off here but a seem to remember from previous posts that waking a sleeping child or making a child lay down was part of your regulations on violating a child’s personal rights? I though another poster brought that up previously?
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Old 09-06-2018, 09:22 AM
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Do you have a link to that? The proposed changes I’m seeing only apply to infants.
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I couldn't find it either.
I'll see if I can find the handout that I got from the licensing advocate. We had a workshop a few weeks ago and she broke it down for us. Some are for infants and some include older children also.
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Old 09-06-2018, 04:19 PM
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I'll see if I can find the handout that I got from the licensing advocate. We had a workshop a few weeks ago and she broke it down for us. Some are for infants and some include older children also.
Our meeting was canceled because we were on fire So I just have the one hand out of proposed changes for safe sleep.
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Old 09-07-2018, 03:59 PM
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This is what I was given at our meeting. These apply to CA and were the most current proposed safe sleep practices as of last month. These could change between now and when the actual practices are passed. Possible changes that were mentioned were whether licensing would require us to use a licensing provided sleep plan form or whether we'd be able to create/use our own, requiring us to document infants sleep times to keep a record, changing the terminology from "play yards" to "portable cribs" or other term when referring to "pack'n'play" type equipment. We were originally told that the changes would go into effect in October but at our meeting that was changed to November and culd possibly change again etc. depending on how long it takes them to decide on the finished safe sleep regulations.

Family Child Care Safe Sleep Regulation Concepts
Community Care Licensing – Child Care Program
Sleep Surface:
• Mattresses must be firm with a fitted sheet that is appropriate to the mattress size that fits tightly on the mattress, and overlaps the underside of the mattress so it cannot be dislodged
• Mattresses shall be made specifically for the size crib or play yard in which they are placed
• No loose articles and soft objects in the crib or play yard
• Bumper pads are not allowed
• No objects can be hanging above or attached to the side of the crib
• Crib or play yard placement will not hinder entrance or exit to and from the space where infants are sleeping
• Each infant's bedding will be used for him/her only
• Bedding shall be changed and sanitized daily, or more often if needed

Pacifiers:
Pacifiers are allowed in cribs/ play yards if the following provisions are in place:
• An infant cannot be forced to take a pacifier when put down to sleep
• Nothing can be attached to the pacifier (no toys, small blankets or tethers etc)
• The pacifier must be specific to the infant it is being given to

Individual Sleeping Plan:
• An Individual Sleeping Plan will be completed for each infant that is 12 months of age or younger that the facility has in care and maintained in the child’s record
The Plan will include the following:
 Usual Sleeping Times
 Equipment the infant sleeps in
 Length of time that is usual for them to sleep
 Pacifier use
 Infant’s ability to roll over and back on their own
 Medical Exemption documentation

Back to Sleep
• The licensee must place infants aged 12 months or younger on their backs for sleeping
• The requirements set forth in the above may not apply if there is a medical exception included in the infant’s Individual Infant Sleeping Plan
- Medical exemptions must be signed by a licensed physician or their designee
- The medical exemption must be included in the child’s file
• Infants must have an Individual Infant Sleeping Plan completed and signed by an authorized representative. The plan should indicate that the infant is able to roll form their back to their tummy as well as from their tummy to their back. However, they must be placed on their back when first laid down to sleep; in the event the infant changes position they may remain in the position that suits them if the plan is completed appropriately
• If the infant is able to roll back and forth for the first time in care the provider may then fill out the appropriate section of the Individual Infant Sleeping Plan, notify the authorized representative and have them sign the form when they pick up the child
Sleeping
• Infants must not be swaddled while in care (sleep sacks ok)
• Infants head must not be covered while sleeping
• If an infant falls asleep before being placed in a crib or play yard, the licensee must move the infant to a crib or play yard as soon as possible
• No child shall be forced to sleep, to stay awake or to stay in the sleeping area

Supervision:
The licensee must supervise infants while they are sleeping and adhere to the following requirements:
• The licensee will physically check on the infant every 15 minutes while the infant is sleeping, as well as look for any signs of distress and take proper emergency steps as detailed in the proposed regulations
• The licensee must be near enough to the sleeping infant to be able to hear them should they awaken
• If the infant/s is sleeping in a separate room from where the licensee is stationed, the door to the room the infant/s is sleeping in must remain open at all times
• The licensee must be on the same floor as the sleeping infant
• A monitor may be used in the home in addition to the above requirements for supervision but cannot be used in place of them

Overnight Care:
In addition to all Infant Safe Sleep requirements the following requirements must be followed:
• The provider must remain awake whenever children are awake
• The door to the room where the provider is sleeping as well as the door to the room where the children in care are sleeping must remain open
• If the sleeping arrangements are not situated in such a way that the provider can be assured of hearing a child waken, a monitor system must be used
• The monitor must be maintained and in good working order at all times
• The monitor may be used in place of 15 minute checks if infant has fallen asleep and the licensee is going to sleep as well.
• Clean bedding and nightclothes must be available to children in care
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Old 09-07-2018, 04:12 PM
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A lot of providers are not doing infant childcare anymore due to all the new rules that go into effect Sept. 30.

People are scrambling to find care!
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Old 09-07-2018, 04:40 PM
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PROPOSED doesn’t mean they’ll all become actual regs though. This is so. Frustrating.
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Old 09-07-2018, 04:51 PM
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PROPOSED doesn’t mean they’ll all become actual regs though. This is so. Frustrating.
Yep, we all threw a fit when we read the one about having to wash nap blankets daily. I faxed in a letter about my ... concerns.
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Old 09-08-2018, 06:13 PM
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Yep, we all threw a fit when we read the one about having to wash nap blankets daily. I faxed in a letter about my ... concerns.
Maybe get parents involved in complaining too? Tell them they’ll have to cart nap bedding back and forth with them to wash at home every day if this goes through......HA.
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Old 09-08-2018, 10:58 PM
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Does this proposed regulation pertain to in-home care as well as centers? I cannot find any information that this pertains to in-home childcare.
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Old 09-10-2018, 03:50 PM
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Does this proposed regulation pertain to in-home care as well as centers? I cannot find any information that this pertains to in-home childcare.
The list is broken down into two sections. She posted the home daycare section.
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Old 09-10-2018, 04:30 PM
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The list is broken down into two sections. She posted the home daycare section.
Can u lead me to where this is posted please.
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Old 09-10-2018, 05:17 PM
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Can u lead me to where this is posted please.
It’s under the quarterly update section of community care licensing’s website. You should be sure to sign up for quarterly update emails so you don’t miss any regulation updates.
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Old 09-11-2018, 03:33 PM
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Can u lead me to where this is posted please.
The paper I got was directly from a CA Child Care Advocate and I believe you won't find that specific paper posted but you can see the proposed bill. Pretty much the paper I got were the propositions in the bill/changes etc in a bulleted list to make it easier to read without the legal jargon.

In other news ...
I heard via our Association President that the blanket washing daily thing will be changed to weekly or "as needed" if they get dirtier sooner .
Hopefully that doesn't change again
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Old 09-12-2018, 04:18 AM
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They hid it...

http://www.cdss.ca.gov/Portals/9/Saf...-30-142717-390
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Old 09-12-2018, 07:17 AM
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So are these suggestions or proposals or are they changes that ARE/WILL be occurring?

An Infant Sleep Plan? ....updating and keeping that written document current could be a full tie job

"No infant shall be forced to sleep"....

The wording is somewhat alarming from a provider standpoint. I can see parents taking some of the statements and interpreting them in VASTLY different ways.
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Old 09-12-2018, 08:44 AM
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So are these suggestions or proposals or are they changes that ARE/WILL be occurring?

An Infant Sleep Plan? ....updating and keeping that written document current could be a full tie job

"No infant shall be forced to sleep"....

The wording is somewhat alarming from a provider standpoint. I can see parents taking some of the statements and interpreting them in VASTLY different ways.
Proposed changes that we only have until the 19th to contest, that we were supposed to have provider feedback meetings for. The meetings were cancelled in many communities because of wild fire. They want commenting to end on Sept 19th, and to implement the new regulations on October 1st. This doesn’t feel like they really want to make any adjustments in that time period.
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Old 09-17-2018, 06:14 PM
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Exclamation Personal Rights- nap time

I worked in CA childcare for years. Waking a sleeping child is considered a violation of personal rights (a form parents sign upon enrolling and required for Licensing). To get around this I would have parents write a permission letter stating that they request and give permission to wake the child after a certain period of time or at a certain time. Naptime is run this way and childcare centers try to keep kids laying down for 2 to 2.5 hours so the teachers can take lunch breaks without the center requiring another staff person in the room. Staffing for ratio for 10 to 12 hours is tough and costly. The only time the teachers are given to plan prep or clean up is naptime. So all teachers strive for a hassle free naptime so they can get stuff done and take lunch breaks. If you have bedtime issues, i would write a note requesting your child is woken up by 2 or 230. Licensing nor the center can't argue with parent requests and permission, but they will state that naptime is required for healthy children....not to mention mentally healthy teachers!
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Old 09-17-2018, 10:55 PM
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Yep that looks similar to the list that I have except the one in the link is on official letterhead. Mine was just a list with no letterhead. Probably just the FCC parts without the CCC parts. And it looks like some things are a little different.
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Old 09-17-2018, 11:11 PM
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An Infant Sleep Plan? ....updating and keeping that written document current could be a full tie job
It's actually not that big of a deal. On paper it sounds horrible. The sleep plan is just a form where you write down stuff about when and where the baby will sleep and then the parents sign it. In the "when" section you can just write "on demand". There is a spot where they want us to mark if the infant rolls over on their own or not apparently so that if the baby is not rolling over yet the provider doesn't put the baby to sleep on it's tummy. The provider can't fib it since a parent signature is needed. This is just a one time form thing.

The record part is not much different than what some providers already do for infants here. It's just like a paper where you report how many oz of milk they drank and at what times, how many diapers you changed and when, what times they napped at when they woke up etc. A lot of people already do that here until they turn 1. The only difference will be whether licensing will require us to use a form they provide or whether they will just let us make and use our own. That is still yet to be seen.

This is the draft of the infant sleep plan if they decide to make us use their form.
http://www.cdss.ca.gov/Portals/9/Reg...-06-154350-447
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Old 09-18-2018, 11:03 AM
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No, even when they've rolled over we're still supposed to put them down on their back. They just don't want us to be able to fib if they show up and a baby is on it's tummy. The record keeping part, is well.....part of why I won't be taking infants anymore. It's one thing to do it as a service, another if it's required. I mean really....what does it prove other than I took a min to write down a number of some kind?

Without seeing the final draft I'm concerned we'll have to write down every 15 min check, and keep records like a nurse.
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Old 09-18-2018, 11:20 AM
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No, even when they've rolled over we're still supposed to put them down on their back. They just don't want us to be able to fib if they show up and a baby is on it's tummy.
Here they have us label the child's individual crib the same way we have to do for allergies, with "special consideration to confidentiality" . (IE, cow sticker for milk, peanut stickers, etc.)

Most use dolphin stickers, for "flippers". I like to use the upside down monkey stickers to get the inspectors to ask what it references.

I guess they don't want parents comparing babies development and passing judgment.
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Old 09-18-2018, 12:11 PM
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Here they have us label the child's individual crib the same way we have to do for allergies, with "special consideration to confidentiality" . (IE, cow sticker for milk, peanut stickers, etc.)

Most use dolphin stickers, for "flippers". I like to use the upside down monkey stickers to get the inspectors to ask what it references.

I guess they don't want parents comparing babies development and passing judgment.
That's cute, lol. My parents never make it in to the cribs. And I can't remember the last time I had two in cribs at the same time anyway.

The labeled bottle thing cracks me up too. They are MY bottles. All of them. And I prepare them as needed. I also, generally only have one child on a bottle at once. Though right now I have a nearly 3yo sn kiddo still on bottles. She gets the Y cut nipples because her formula is so fortified that it's like sludge.
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