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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Advice Please...Problem With Parents And Child
Angelwings36 07:40 AM 10-05-2012
Unfortunately this is going to be super long because I felt I needed to give a good back story...

I have a family that has attended my daycare for 3 months now. They have two children (4 year old girl and 15 month old boy) and only attend on Tuesdays and Thursdays from 7:30am - 5:00pm.

When the family first enrolled with me the mother wrote on her daughters child information form:

**** is an intense, happy girl that loves to live life. Small things make her happy and similarly can make her sad. Most of the time she can reason well with an adult helping her. Sometimes it’s too much and she has trouble controlling her emotions. She will cry and have a melt down.

Along with this paragraph was a list of activities and foods that the parents expected me to provide for their children. I told my husband right from the day I read the child information form that I didn't feel it was going to work out with this family because I felt that the mother was telling me how to do my job. The first day that the children attended my daycare the mother gave me instruction on how to nap her son and how and when to change his poopy diaper (as if I don't change poopy diapers immediately as it is). Of course I told her how and when I nap the children and my procedures for diaper changes and that everything would be just fine.

From day one I noticed something different about the 4 year old girl. At first I thought maybe she had a special need but now I am leaning more towards maybe it's just her personality. Anytime she didn't like something or something bothered her she would burst into tears. It could be as small as she didn't like the book I was reading, she didn't like a toy in the toy room, she didn't like the way a child was playing, etc... It seemed that everything around her would set her off crying at some point. It was obviously that she had a very difficult time expressing her emotions.

I worked extensively with the little girl on this issue and I did see alot of progress with her over the 3 months. To date she very rarely resorts to crying when something bothers her and is able to more comfortably vocalize her feelings to me within my home. With her parent's it is still another story.

The children, right up until recently, where not the issue for me. Over the three months that I had the two children I would cringe in the morning when I seen the parents pull up in their vehicle. I hated drop off time for these children as not only did I know I was going to get some form of instruction but whether it was the mother or father dropping off they always made a scene if their children began to cry. The little boy typically will whine in the morning when being dropped off and the girl would sometimes find an "issue" to begin crying about as well. Right up until recently the "issues" that the little girl would cry about would be about things that did or did not happen at home. For example, mom or dad didn't take them for a bike ride yesterday. Typically drop off for this family took about 4-8 minutes every morning.

Then about three weeks ago on a Thursday when the parent's came to drop the children off for the day the little girl asked me if we would be going outside. I said, "No I'm sorry **** but we are shingling our garage right now so the backyard is too dangerous to play in. It will be done soon though and then we can go outside again." She immediately broke down and mom comforted her for about 10 minutes until I finally said dcp I have another family coming so I have to take them in now and I picked the little girl up (still crying) and proceeded to go in the house.

The following Tuesday was the same issue with the little girl crying about not being able to go outside. The following Thursday dcd pulled up to drop the children off and I could see from my window that dcg again was crying. Dcd left her half way down the driveway and quickly came in and handed me dcb. I got dcb undressed and settled in with the children and then waited for 15 plus minutes while dcd tried to "reason" with his daughter in my driveway with her still crying the whole time. Finally 15(ish) minutes later dcd comes in with the 4 year old in his arms and says **** has told me she doesn't like coming here. Of course I was set back but I quickly explained the issue with the backyard play (which now would no longer be an issue after today). Dcd gave me a funny look and then put dcg down and I led her by the hand in my house.

That weekend I sent the dcf an email addressing the drop off that morning. In the letter I specified that as per their contract drop offs are to be short and sweet and that Thursday morning's drop off was unacceptable to me and that as soon as dcd left the little girl wiped her eyes and was just fine all day long. I also made it clear that it was not acceptable to allow their daughter to cry in my driveway for 15 plus minutes as it's disruptive to my neighbors and especially so at 7:30am.

The family sent me an email back saying that they understood, agreed and would do the best they could to ensure they were quick in the morning. In the letter they also said they wanted to clarrify a few concerns that they had:

1. Do the kids go downstairs to play each day?
2. From our initial meeting we thought the kids would be playing outside most days, weather permitting. We realize that due to the roofing maintenance there were a couple of days the kids could not play outside, but it seems like they rarely go outside, such as a beautiful day like today.
3. Our impression from **** is that the tv is often left on all the time while they are playing upstairs. How much tv are the kids actually watching?

I was very taken back from the three questions because all three questions were clearly outlined for the parents in their interview and our contract and I felt that we had a trust issue going on. I emailed the family back and told them that yes, as per what I initially told you we are downstairs everyday after the last drop off until lunch and then downstairs again after nap time until pick up times unless we are outside playing instead. I told them that on the average week I take the children outside 3 times although some weeks we go out more and some weeks less. That there are many things that can factor into whether we will go outside for the day or not. From the temperature (too hot, too cold), to the weather patterns (rainy, hail, blizzard, too windy), to how the children come dressed (ex. shorts when the temperature is only plus 7 until mid afternoon, no winter gear), to the children's behavior (whether I have a new transition or a child is having a bad day as the crying can be disruptive to my neighbors) to what types of activities and projects I have planned for the day, to whether the majority of the children would like to play outside or downstairs for the day. When I have part time families and especially children who only attend twice a week I do expect that the parents are ensuring they get their children outside on a regular basis on their end. Because they only attend my program two days per week there can be some weeks were we get outside twice, some weeks were we get outside once and some weeks were we just don’t get outside during the days that they are here. I told the family as per our initial interview I do have the tv on during drop off and pick up times (along with building material and books for the children to read) while I am transitioning children in and out for the day as it does help keep the children calm while I am busy at the door. Also for my older children who no longer nap they do watch a movie during their quiet time. The tv that we have downstairs is never on and is only in the play area for our family in the evening.

The family was well aware of all three of these things and I really felt I was repeating all the information I gave them during our interview and that was in their contract. I decided at that point that I was going to provide them with a termination letter as it was clear that the family either didn't trust me to care for their children anymore or they were no longer happy with my program. I sent the termination letter. In Saskatchewan almost every daycare gives a one month's notice so this is what I gave to this family (as per my contract).

The following Thursday when dcm came to drop off the children she told me she was shocked to have recieved the termination letter and begged me to keep her children. I will note that morning neither of the children broke down into tears at all and drop off went really smooth. I felt bad for the dcm so I told her we could meet after work to discuss the situation further. After work when we met dcm informed me there wasn't a trust issue going on and they were happy with their children being in my care. I told her that we could try to make it work and see how things go.

The following Monday dcm pulls up in my driveway so I answer the door. She hands me a termination letter and informs me that they are not happy with my program and know things won't change with it so they are going to find alternative care for their children. She leaves crying.

The next day (Tuesday) when dcm comes to drop the children off the little boy begins to cry and the 4 year old girl looks at me and says, "***** is crying because he doesn't like to be here." Dcm says no, **** he is just sad. I take the children inside and all day long dcg tells the other children in my daycare that her and her brother would not be coming here much longer because "we" don't like it here.

The next day (Thursday), which was yesterday, dcg makes the same comment to me in the morning when dcb begins crying. She again spends all day telling my daycare children that "we" don't like it here so we are going someplace that's better. When dcm comes to pick up in the afternoon dcg goes off for 5 minutes straight telling me right infront of her mom that "we" don't like it here so we are going someplace better, we are not happy here, we are going to see a really nice place soon, etc... and so on and so forth.

At this point I really don't want to take the children any longer but I don't know how to go about doing an immediate termination. Dcf has already paid for the month of October and I would be fine refunding them the remainer of this months fees.

Anyone have some advice for me?
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sharlan 07:47 AM 10-05-2012
If you're fine with refunding the money. I would hand it over along with an immediate term letter stating that you will no longer be able to care for the children, effective immediately.

Since they won't be back until Tues, I would send them a text or email and follow it up with a letter sent out today with a check for the rest of their money. I would not take them back on Tues.

Only once in 28 years have I termed a family with no notice. In fact, I've only termed a couple of families.
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Angelwings36 07:50 AM 10-05-2012
Originally Posted by sharlan:
If you're fine with refunding the money. I would hand it over along with an immediate term letter stating that you will no longer be able to care for the children, effective immediately.

Since they won't be back until Tues, I would send them a text or email and follow it up with a letter sent out today with a check for the rest of their money. I would not take them back on Tues.

Only once in 28 years have I termed a family with no notice. In fact, I've only termed a couple of families.
Do you feel that I should provide an explanation for the immediate termination? As I know this family is going to question it?
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sharlan 08:08 AM 10-05-2012
IMHO, your only explanation is that you can no longer provide care.

You've already addressed any issues with them and things are only going to go downhill from here.
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mom2many 08:19 AM 10-05-2012
I agree with Sharlan and would refund their money and not take them back. A situation like this can only get uglier!
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countrymom 08:19 AM 10-05-2012
maybe they will just quit coming. I would tell the parents that you don't appreciate their dd telling others that they don't like it there (sounds to me like she would spoon fed to say those things) and that its upsetting the other children. If that doesn't work then term immediately. I really don't think anything you say to this dcg will make her stop saying mean things.
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JenNJ 08:29 AM 10-05-2012
I would send a certified letter and a check with refunded fees for October TODAY. I would not tolerate that sort of disrespect from the child and it seems really suspicious that she begged to stay on, you allowed it, then she shows up with her own term letter. Like she needed that upper hand. Or she wants to report you...
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Meeko 08:34 AM 10-05-2012
Originally Posted by JenNJ:
I would send a certified letter and a check with refunded fees for October TODAY. I would not tolerate that sort of disrespect from the child and it seems really suspicious that she begged to stay on, you allowed it, then she shows up with her own term letter. Like she needed that upper hand. Or she wants to report you...
This!

Totally unacceptable to be put through that each day by a child. Ans shame on the mother for letting her do it. Disgusting.

Term today!
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Willow 08:41 AM 10-05-2012
The girl is four years old and plenty old enough to understand the effect of her words. At this point I'm quite sure she knows it's bothering you and the other kids and is quite pleased with how her behavior has been allowed to manipulate her parents into giving in to her whims. Tell her it's unfortunate she doesn't like it there, but all of the other children love you and your home, so she needs to stop....then change the subject.

You can tell the parents to direct the girl to stop going on about about how much she hates it there or you'll have to terminate effective immediately because you refuse to keep any child who is that level of unhappy. Emphasize that you have NEVER had a child behave like her and believe they really do need to find care elsewhere sooner rather than later.
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Willow 08:43 AM 10-05-2012
Originally Posted by JenNJ:
I would send a certified letter and a check with refunded fees for October TODAY. I would not tolerate that sort of disrespect from the child and it seems really suspicious that she begged to stay on, you allowed it, then she shows up with her own term letter. Like she needed that upper hand. Or she wants to report you...

This is even better.
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lovemykidstoo 08:57 AM 10-05-2012
Originally Posted by Angelwings36:
Do you feel that I should provide an explanation for the immediate termination? As I know this family is going to question it?
The only explanation I would give them is that their darling children "don't like it there anymore". I would definately send them a over-nighted certified letter with their refund. I wouldn't even speak to them. That is ridiculous. Why do so many people let their kids play them like that. Also, the deal with going outside? How many times do they take their own kids outside to play? Some people just dont' understand what it's like to get 6 kids ready to go outside everyday. I don't take my kids out everyday either.
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My3cents 11:05 AM 10-05-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
The only explanation I would give them is that their darling children "don't like it there anymore". I would definately send them a over-nighted certified letter with their refund. I wouldn't even speak to them. That is ridiculous. Why do so many people let their kids play them like that. Also, the deal with going outside? How many times do they take their own kids outside to play? Some people just dont' understand what it's like to get 6 kids ready to go outside everyday. I don't take my kids out everyday either.
Unless bad weather, I try to get my kids out everyday. They can burn off energy and get fresh air. We often go out twice a day, morning and afternoon.

but..... it is my choice! I am the one that is dealing with the children. I have had days that we have been busy with projects and we just did not get to make it out. Not often, but it has happened.

That family will not be happy anywhere. Let them go. I would want to know why they turned around after you had thought you worked things out. I am guessing they found other care. Demand respect, esp if you give respect. Another thing if I had a parent pay me that far in advance, termination would mean termination of payments made. I would also do two weeks notice and if they chose to not come those two weeks or are termed your still paid. Ugh sorry your going through this.
I would cut that child off of that conversation every time you heard it. We don't talk about that here....she kept it up, please go to time out. I would tell her in private it is ok that you don't want to come here, but it is not ok for you tell that to the other kids that do like to come here. I will be sad when you leave, because I enjoyed gettting to know you and having you in my care.
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Crazy8 11:32 AM 10-05-2012
sounds like she found other care but doesn't want to lose the money she paid for this month. I have NEVER had to refund a dime but in a case like this I would just to show that she does NOT have that upper hand here!!
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lovemykidstoo 11:46 AM 10-05-2012
Originally Posted by My3cents:
Unless bad weather, I try to get my kids out everyday. They can burn off energy and get fresh air. We often go out twice a day, morning and afternoon.

but..... it is my choice! I am the one that is dealing with the children. I have had days that we have been busy with projects and we just did not get to make it out. Not often, but it has happened.

That family will not be happy anywhere. Let them go. I would want to know why they turned around after you had thought you worked things out. I am guessing they found other care. Demand respect, esp if you give respect. Another thing if I had a parent pay me that far in advance, termination would mean termination of payments made. I would also do two weeks notice and if they chose to not come those two weeks or are termed your still paid. Ugh sorry your going through this.
I would cut that child off of that conversation every time you heard it. We don't talk about that here....she kept it up, please go to time out. I would tell her in private it is ok that you don't want to come here, but it is not ok for you tell that to the other kids that do like to come here. I will be sad when you leave, because I enjoyed gettting to know you and having you in my care.
We for the most part go out everyday too except in the winter when it gets really bad. Depends on the agegroup too that I have. In the summer we're out all day long. Winter, I do like to get them out for at least 20 minutes. But like the OP said if you have part timers and you go out 4 out of 5 days in the, there might be a chance that that 1 day that you don't go out hits someone that only comes 2 days a week. I think that the whole family is just disrespectful.
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Meeko 12:29 PM 10-05-2012
Originally Posted by Willow:
The girl is four years old and plenty old enough to understand the effect of her words. At this point I'm quite sure she knows it's bothering you and the other kids and is quite pleased with how her behavior has been allowed to manipulate her parents into giving in to her whims. Tell her it's unfortunate she doesn't like it there, but all of the other children love you and your home, so she needs to stop....then change the subject.

You can tell the parents to direct the girl to stop going on about about how much she hates it there or you'll have to terminate effective immediately because you refuse to keep any child who is that level of unhappy. Emphasize that you have NEVER had a child behave like her and believe they really do need to find care elsewhere sooner rather than later.

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sunlight 01:34 PM 10-05-2012
Does anyone who has ever had to terminate care for a family ever keep them coming until the final date they leave? I am always weary of disgruntled families making trouble for me and my daycare. I mean, I have heard of families reporting the provider, of course they are lying but who wants to take the time to deal with being accused of something and then having to prove yourself innocent?
Any thoughts on this are much appreciated.
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providerandmomof4 04:50 PM 10-05-2012
I had a dcg that used to say, "I hate this dc, I don't want to come here anymore" anytime she would get mad at me, ie. rest time, if she had to share a toy, etc. The other kids would look at her and then me like, are you going to let her say that. At first I just ignored her comments. Finally I'd had enough and told her that she was being very rude and if she really felt that way maybe she should talk to her parents about it and told her to be sure and tell her parents why she felt that way, but I didn't want to hear anymore of it. (Serious face) She stopped saying those things to me. Maybe you could have a little talk like this with dcg.......
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Unregistered 02:25 PM 03-26-2014
I have a dcg who every time she is upset, she will say, "I hate it here. Every one is mean to me here." She'll cry and say this when she doesn't get her way or another child has a turn before her, etc. I calmly remind her that, "It isn't nice to say those kinds of things because they hurt my feelings and probably make the other kids feel bad because I know they like to play with you and spend time here with you. You may go find something else to do while you calm down but please don't say mean things like that. Thank you." This approach with her has greatly helped. She was 4 when she started and now at 5 she rarely says she "hates it here."
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daycare 02:51 PM 03-26-2014
this post is almost 2 years old..........
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