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wdmmom 10:37 AM 05-09-2011
Have you ever worked for a family of another culture? I started working for a Vietnamese family a few months ago. The way they raise their children is by far different than what I am accustomed to and asking them to follow ordinary rules I have set in my home has become a chore.

DCB is 19 months. He has a horrible gag reflex or something because this kid pukes on command. He won't eat "American" food. The parents bring in blended up Vietnamese cuisines for him that I have to spoon feed. But he will eat crackers, cheerios, animal crackers, goldfish, etc.

Last Friday I fed him his lunch last...at 12pm and laid him down for a nap around 1245pm. DCB vomited all over his pack and play. It took me 6 hours to clean, sanitize, disinfect and get that horrible stench out of the room!!!! I explained to DCD that I can't continue to care for him unless he is checked out by a doctor or a dietician to determine if there is anything wrong. I went on to explain to DCD that I just sunk over $10,000 into my house and I can't afford to have his son go walking around and barfing on command. DCD apologized profusely and said he would take him to the doctor.

Monday morning rolls around and in comes DCD with a gift for me for Mother's Day. Very nice gesture, but no mention of DCB going to the doctor, no scheduled appointment, nothing. Just a blended up bowl of God-knows-what and a "See you at 5pm."

It's about to the point I raise the rate and save the extra money in the event I need to hire a carpet cleaning company. I'm really at a loss on what to do. I also am in the process of registering and getting on the food program and I have it in my policy that no food can be brought in unless the child is on a special diet. DCD says this is a special diet because his son wont eat anything else.

How do I tell DCD that I am not spoon feeding his child this muck daily and that if I have to, the rate is going up...significantly???
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nannyde 10:47 AM 05-09-2011
I would just tell them that you need a hundred dollar deposit to keep on hand for staff time for cleaning. Whenever you have to do this kind of cleaning then tell them that you have used X amount of it and it needs to be replenshed before arriving the next day of day care.

You HAVE to attach money to it. There is no other way to get the point across to them. Doing six hours of one to one specialized care for them is costing you too much of what you make off of him.

Since you have a staff assistant you can tell them that this was the hard cost for cleaning. Easier to do this if you actually HAVE someone you pay.

Once they have to start paying for the cleaning they will either make a move out of your day care or start dealing with the issue. If he has a treat based diet at home and a trigger gag reflex this isn't going to solve itself.

I wonder how much of the puree they are giving you is just starch. Have you ever asked them what's in it?
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WDW 10:49 AM 05-09-2011
I agree with you on the Dr. thing... he needs to be seen, and if nothing is wrong, you have to make a choice if you are willing to keep him. I can understand not wanting the mess/germs. As far as DCD bringing the food, I guess I don't see why it would matter all that much... as long as it's not something that is going to upset other kids. If it's as awful as you say it is, the other kids probably don't even want it. I wouldn't raise the rate to feed him the bowl of food... if DCD expected you to buy that food, that would be different. If anything, it's saving you money.... right? Just a thought... good luck.
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daycare 10:53 AM 05-09-2011
wow sounds like my situation.... I dont think that it is a culture thing first off...
I have a family also vietnamese and korean mix... Their son also has gag reflux. I told the parents after several weeks of the vomiting episodes and getting sent home, that he would need to have a doc note on file stating why all the vomiting. I also said, child cannot come back for 48 hours after each vomit episode until I get the note.

the kid I have is 3 and he would not only vomit on all of my carpet, but the other kids in DC as well. Finally I had enough and demanded the note which I did get.

Now i have a new rule for this child. One vomit is allowed per day, after that he goes home. I told DCM that I would also require her to purchase special enzyme cleaner to keep here at my house. If the food is not digested and he really is gaging, it does not smell at all. I explained to the mom taht i can not care for the group properly when I am constantly having to clean up vomit. She understood.

the DCK is getting better at non gagging so much, but it still happens at least every other week as opposed to every day.

I would demand the Doc note and enforce the one vomit rule. I don't think that it's fair to charge this family more due to a medical condition.....
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Michelle 10:54 AM 05-09-2011
I had the same thing happen with me. I had a family from a small country in Africa and from what a could tell , the puree was some kind of fish, beans, noodles, and STRONG spices. They told me the babies "loved" it and ate it at home all the time. When I fed it to them , they gagged. I did have permission to give regular baby food if I wanted, so I would attempt one bite of their food, then went straight to the baby food.
Maybe ask them if you can do this so that the baby gets his nourishment.
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countrymom 10:54 AM 05-09-2011
is he just vomiting the food that dad brings him or crackers and such, how about liquids. I'm just wondering if its something that he's eating at home that is making him sick. I would start to feed him american food, and also I would let him feed himself. I know that they really baby their children but if he's going to be in your home you need him accustomed to your rules
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Symphony 11:31 AM 05-09-2011
This definitely sounds really frustrating, but I am failing to see how this is a culture issue? Is it the spoon feeding? I know asian cultures often spoon feed children longer than western cultures tend to. Is it a problem for you or do the parents not want the child to self-feed?

My food program lady was just here this morning and I asked her about kids bringing food from home. She said they can bring whatever they want so long as I am still offering to feed them whatever I make for the rest of the kids. Even if I never set a plate in front of them, if the parents know I have food available it is fine AND I can claim that child for every meal. She said since the food program is federal this is the same everywhere.

Now I wouldn't allow children to bring happy meals or lunchables, but that is my own personal choice. I would feel completely different about feeding a child food brought by the parents that is in line with cultural values. If you don't want to do so, I would suggest they find alternative care.
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Meeko 12:15 PM 05-09-2011
Originally Posted by Symphony:
This definitely sounds really frustrating, but I am failing to see how this is a culture issue? Is it the spoon feeding? I know asian cultures often spoon feed children longer than western cultures tend to. Is it a problem for you or do the parents not want the child to self-feed?

My food program lady was just here this morning and I asked her about kids bringing food from home. She said they can bring whatever they want so long as I am still offering to feed them whatever I make for the rest of the kids. Even if I never set a plate in front of them, if the parents know I have food available it is fine AND I can claim that child for every meal. She said since the food program is federal this is the same everywhere.

Now I wouldn't allow children to bring happy meals or lunchables, but that is my own personal choice. I would feel completely different about feeding a child food brought by the parents that is in line with cultural values. If you don't want to do so, I would suggest they find alternative care.
I am always amazed at how the food programs differ even though it's a federal program. I have done day care in Oklahoma and in Utah and they couldn't be more different! I was (albeit nicely) told that I would be taken off the program if the kids brought food from home. She told me every single child in care must be offered the same food.

Your inspector makes more sense. They should be worried about what YOU are serving rather than what the kids bring. Now I have a no food from home policy because it's easier on me not to deal with the tantrums when Jimmy brings candy and Sammy doesn't get any. But also because the food program is so strict. My Oklahoma program was much more laid back than this one.
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wdmmom 12:27 PM 05-09-2011
Well, yes...I don't want to do it and had I have been told that I had to when they started, their rate would have been that of an infant rather than a toddler.

I think I am going to use all of the suggestions on here and tell DCD today that Effective June 1st this is what is going to happen

1.) Deposit of $100 must be made for extra cleaning/sanitizing and damages.

2.) Rate is going up to the infant rate ($10 a week)

3.) Child must be seen by a doctor to determine why all the vomit.

4.) DCD is welcome to continue bringing in own food but the new rate will reflect the cost of one on one feeding time.

5.) They can follow these rules or they can put in their termination.
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Abigail 06:16 PM 05-09-2011
I really only like your third rule. I don't have the personal experience, but my main concern would be to get a dr's note. You should write a letter with your contact information and have the dad bring it to the dr's when they go so the dr. can call you directly asap. If you want to raise the rates...I would simply give him a letter with a 6-8 week time frame of rates increasing to such and such amount without reason as to why. If the child continues to vomit and you continue to care for the child, I would ask the parents to bring in cleaning solution to be used exclusively for these incidents.
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Former Teacher 06:33 PM 05-09-2011
Originally Posted by wdmmom:
Well, yes...I don't want to do it and had I have been told that I had to when they started, their rate would have been that of an infant rather than a toddler.

I think I am going to use all of the suggestions on here and tell DCD today that Effective June 1st this is what is going to happen

1.) Deposit of $100 must be made for extra cleaning/sanitizing and damages.

2.) Rate is going up to the infant rate ($10 a week)

3.) Child must be seen by a doctor to determine why all the vomit.

4.) DCD is welcome to continue bringing in own food but the new rate will reflect the cost of one on one feeding time.

5.) They can follow these rules or they can put in their termination.
I'll play devil's advocate:

1: Are you going to charge a deposit for the children who get sick say from a virus? All children get sick, yes not to the extent of this child, but he can't help it.

2: What happens if this family claims discrimination? You are charging extra just because it is to clean up when the child gets sick.

3: This is your best option

4: With all due respect, IMO I do not agree with charging a parent just because you have to take time to feed him yourself regardless of what is served.

5: If you feel uncomfortable with this family, this maybe your second best option.
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WDW 06:43 PM 05-09-2011
Originally Posted by Former Teacher:
I'll play devil's advocate:

1: Are you going to charge a deposit for the children who get sick say from a virus? All children get sick, yes not to the extent of this child, but he can't help it.

2: What happens if this family claims discrimination? You are charging extra just because it is to clean up when the child gets sick.

3: This is your best option

4: With all due respect, IMO I do not agree with charging a parent just because you have to take time to feed him yourself regardless of what is served.

5: If you feel uncomfortable with this family, this maybe your second best option.

I agree with this.
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jojosmommy 07:28 PM 05-09-2011
I dont think that feeding that child should require additional pay. However if you are going to be on the food program in our area you MUST put in front of the kids the same food you are claiming. You can't just have enough available for them but not serve it to them. You would have to have a special diet statement stating their individual need to be on a seperate diet.

I think you should stick by the vomit and stays home X hours policy and explain you will do this EVERY time he vomits. I didnt do this with a puker I had and it bit me in the behind. They will bring their child to the dr if they are forced to miss work b/c of his condition. If not they will just keep bringing him and his food and you will be left to clean it up.
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mac60 03:17 AM 05-10-2011
I am still trying to get past the daily vomits all over the home. While I understand that something is "wrong" with the child obviously, I don't understand how a provider could allow a kid to vomit in their home every day. And to vomit on another child, if that was my child that got vomited on, I would be furious. I do understand that kids do get sick occassionally, but everyday is beyond our call of duty, plus it destroys our home. If the food has lots of spices and such in it, that could be what is not agreeing with the child. I would probably try a smoothe easy diet on him for a few days to see if there was any improvement. Obviously there is something wrong with his digestive system or the food he is given to eat. Eww.
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nannyde 04:59 AM 05-10-2011
Originally Posted by wdmmom:
Well, yes...I don't want to do it and had I have been told that I had to when they started, their rate would have been that of an infant rather than a toddler.

I think I am going to use all of the suggestions on here and tell DCD today that Effective June 1st this is what is going to happen

1.) Deposit of $100 must be made for extra cleaning/sanitizing and damages.

2.) Rate is going up to the infant rate ($10 a week)

3.) Child must be seen by a doctor to determine why all the vomit.

4.) DCD is welcome to continue bringing in own food but the new rate will reflect the cost of one on one feeding time.

5.) They can follow these rules or they can put in their termination.
These are good.

He needs to go back to the infant rate because of the one to one care he's receiving for hand feeding. That will only be two dollars a day which won't even cover your staff assistants time to one to one him.

He's not a special needs child. He doesn't have any diagnosis that would qualify him under the disability act so you can charge away to your hearts desire.

The hundred dollar deposit is good and I would include a fee for equipment replacement too. At some point the cleaning costs of the equipment and damage to the equipment from the excessive cleaning are going to outweigh the cost of just buying new.

Can you have them supply a good pack n play for him and then send it home with them to clean and return? you could just collapse it and cover it in a giant hefty bag. Have them supply the hefty bags too. That way you can put it outside and just hand it over to them at the end of the day. They can work on it at home and return.

He needs to see a Dr BUT they also need to sign a release so that YOU can talk to the Dr. You need to photograph and print off pictures of these vomits so the Doc can see the AMOUNT he's vomiting... not the "little spit up" he's having at home.

I would also check AEA out. They have food therapist who can come to him till he's three. They can do the visits with the parents in the morning before care or after work.
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wdmmom 05:23 AM 05-10-2011
Originally Posted by Former Teacher:
I'll play devil's advocate:

1: Are you going to charge a deposit for the children who get sick say from a virus? All children get sick, yes not to the extent of this child, but he can't help it.

2: What happens if this family claims discrimination? You are charging extra just because it is to clean up when the child gets sick.

3: This is your best option

4: With all due respect, IMO I do not agree with charging a parent just because you have to take time to feed him yourself regardless of what is served.

5: If you feel uncomfortable with this family, this maybe your second best option.
Why would I charge a deposit for a virus? The deposit is for cleaning, replacing equipment that is constantly getting puked on and for any damages associated with him vomiting.

This family won't claim discrimination...I knew the family about a year before I began working for them. And, yes...when there is vomit in 3 different areas of the home that require extensive cleaning, I WILL charge more!!! It's no different than hiring a cleaning lady that says she will do ABC and XYZ as part of the fee but if you have her go cleaning out the refrigerator, she's going to charge you more. More work= More money. It wouldn't be any different than a person going off to a job and working 10 hour days but getting paid for 8. Are they going to continue to do it without being compensated...I HIGHLY DOUBT IT!

As for the doctor...DCD says he'll take DCB but no appointment has been set and when I bring it up, I get a "Oh, I will...I will." But no follow through.
OH AND FYI...I have called this family numerous times and told them to pick up DCB because of vomit and they have blatantly refused. They say vomit is normal and if he doesn't have a fever, he'll be fine.

That is your opinion but if you are charging a child a toddler rate but the time and effort being spent on him is that of an infant, (IMHO) I should be compensated. No different than an employer saying your work is $20 an hour quality but only paying you for $10!

I'm not at all "uncomfortable" as you call it. I just want to be compensated for any damages, additional cleaning, and I don't want my property to get damaged. I'm just like any other homeowner: I work hard for what I have and want to keep it that way! If DCD wants to take him to the doctor to get a diagnosis so I know what I'm working with, than perhaps I'll keep the rate the same. If DCD isn't going to do his part, I will charge the infant rate and they can stay and pay or they can go. Either way it's no skin off my back.
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countrymom 05:54 AM 05-10-2011
first you are in charge and not the parent. Since the dad doesn't bring him to the dr's then you need to refuse him at the door. I just don't understand why you keep letting him come back into your house and continue puking, that is your fault not he parents.
second, charging him a fee because you have to feed him, are you kidding me, I have never ever heard of something so wrong. Why can't you place the food infront of him and let him pick at it while you are getting everyone their lunch. Teach him how to eat with a utensils.
now the cleaning fee, thats your fault for allowing a child who is puking everyday in your home.
as for them not picking their child up when he's sick, you need to give them a choice, either you start and charge extra from the time you call them or tell them you will call cas for child abandonment. If I had a child in your home and this crazy puking was going on, not only would I extremely upset but I would report you to licensor. You are put other children at risk, because you don't know what is wrong with the child.

oh, I let a child go about 2 months ago because since dec. (when he came to my house) he had such a horrible cough that not only made the other children very ill, but made myself, my sister and her dd ill. I had to tell dad that he needed to be seen by a dr before he was allowed back, its now been over 2 months and the child is still ill, apparently he has something and the dad won't say what he has. (I take the sister off the bus but she's never been sick thats why I watch her)
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nannyde 06:16 AM 05-10-2011
Originally Posted by countrymom:
first you are in charge and not the parent. Since the dad doesn't bring him to the dr's then you need to refuse him at the door. I just don't understand why you keep letting him come back into your house and continue puking, that is your fault not he parents.
second, charging him a fee because you have to feed him, are you kidding me, I have never ever heard of something so wrong. Why can't you place the food infront of him and let him pick at it while you are getting everyone their lunch. Teach him how to eat with a utensils.
now the cleaning fee, thats your fault for allowing a child who is puking everyday in your home.
as for them not picking their child up when he's sick, you need to give them a choice, either you start and charge extra from the time you call them or tell them you will call cas for child abandonment. If I had a child in your home and this crazy puking was going on, not only would I extremely upset but I would report you to licensor. You are put other children at risk, because you don't know what is wrong with the child.

oh, I let a child go about 2 months ago because since dec. (when he came to my house) he had such a horrible cough that not only made the other children very ill, but made myself, my sister and her dd ill. I had to tell dad that he needed to be seen by a dr before he was allowed back, its now been over 2 months and the child is still ill, apparently he has something and the dad won't say what he has. (I take the sister off the bus but she's never been sick thats why I watch her)
Easy there country.

She's been at this two years. She's still learning the ropes. She also lives in a VERY expensive house that she has done very extensive remodeling for for her business. Everything is NEW. You know how you feel when you get new? You want to protect your new cuz it was hard work and treasury that got that new. She has a right to be concerned about her property.

Her fee decrease IS because the child ages and becomes more independent. Hand feeding him meals is TIME. She has a staff assistant so it's not funny money time... it's real money time.

We have ALL had kids who won't spoon feed themselves. It's a learning process to TEACH them how to do it. She has to learn this herself.

She's coming here to get some help and advise. That's good.
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morgan24 06:18 AM 05-10-2011
I had a baby that vomited everything she ate and it took about 6 months for the doctors to find her problem. The flap that closed her stomach off after she ate wouldn't close all the way and as soon as she moved she would bring up everything she ate. They had to do surgery to fix it and she didn't have any problems after that. My granddaughter has always had a bad gag reflex, she started to see a chiropractor for allergies and since she has been getting a monthly adjustment she has had a problem with either. Even the dentist made a comment about how its gone now. Maybe you could suggest that to the parents.

I think you have gone above and beyond what is expected of you to take care of dcb. If the parents of dcb aren't willing to take him to the doctor to see if he has a medical problem, I would give them the choice to either take him to the doctor or find other care.
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wdmmom 06:39 AM 05-10-2011
Let me set this straight as well:

This child is NOT puking all day everyday. In fact, there is the rare occasion he has the (what I call "puke burp") where just a little dribbles out of his mouth and about once a week he has full fledged vomit sessions that usually are in the high chair or in the pack and play at nap time.

He coughs, he throws up. I realize he can't control it but licensing, putting other kids at risk...give me a break. Isn't that what daycare is...you are always putting your child at risk of getting sick by someone else. We aren't doctors but we have instincts. Instincts don't pay the bills.

My best bet is to talk to the family and tell DCD that DCB NEEDS a diagnosis...not a "nothing is wrong or doctor says he's fine" is going to fly. I am also going to put a clause in there (thanks to another poster) that he gets sick, he goes home.

Guess what it comes down to is that I'm going to have to play hard ball and lay it out in writing for these parents to see. If ABC happens, XYZ WILL follow.

Thanks for all the advice everyone!
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MN Day Mom 06:41 AM 05-10-2011
Originally Posted by wdmmom:
As for the doctor...DCD says he'll take DCB but no appointment has been set and when I bring it up, I get a "Oh, I will...I will." But no follow through.
OH AND FYI...I have called this family numerous times and told them to pick up DCB because of vomit and they have blatantly refused. They say vomit is normal and if he doesn't have a fever, he'll be fine.
I would tell them that refusal is not an option. Come pick up your child and he cannot return until he has in hand a doctors note stating the cause and treatment for the childs vomiting. Daily vomit is not normal!!!
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wdmmom 06:48 AM 05-10-2011
Originally Posted by MN Day Mom:
I would tell them that refusal is not an option. Come pick up your child and he cannot return until he has in hand a doctors note stating the cause and treatment for the childs vomiting. Daily vomit is not normal!!!
You and I both know this. That's why I came here. I'm trying to get it to stop without much help from the parents.

The other part of this problem: DCD is bring the cuisine so blended it is more liquidy than stage 1 baby food! This kid can eat lollipops (not at daycare of course!) and goldfish and cheerios but will NOT pick food and feed himself and won't eat anything chunky.

BREAKTHROUGH: Yesterday DCD brought some cuisine that looked like egg whites in watery pudding and the smell was just awful. I game him a Stage 3 jar of Chicken and vegetables and he ate all but 2 bites...chunks and all!

We are having macaroni and cheese today and I'm going to offer some to him.

I think he needs to start feeding himself and if they want to spoon feed him their meals, they can do it on their time. I only have him 5-7 hours a day, he manages to eat snack everyday without a problem, time to tackle lunch time!
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countrymom 07:24 AM 05-10-2011
did he end up getting sick when you fed him the baby food, I have a feeling it has to do with what they are eating. Tell dad from now on that you will supply the food. If he brings you stuff send it back home. This way, you know what he is eating, you know that it is healthy (this is why I make lunches otherwise I would have kids bringing chicken nuggets and lunchables everyday) and when he starts to see the other kids eating with utensils he may too. Try buying cartoon utensils, my kids all fight over the dora ones. Sorry to be hard on you but sometimes the answers are staring you right in your face. kwim.
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wdmmom 07:38 AM 05-10-2011
Yes, I understand. Like Nannyde said, I'm still pretty new to the whole scheme of things.

He did not throw up when I fed him baby food. I think it has a lot to do with nutritional factor and the fact that I limit how much I give him. DCP's have this notion that their baby should be chunky and pudgy but he's Vietnamese and the parents are small themselves! This child isn't going to get chunky...especially when he vomits.

(And when it smells awful in refrigerated form, can you imagine what it smells like coming back ?!) That's why it takes SOOO long to clean up!!!
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