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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Minnesota Shutdown Impact
GretasLittleFriends 09:39 AM 06-21-2011
I got the following forwarded to me by my licensor. I figured I would share it here since we have quite a few MN providers here.

Subject: Gov't Shutdown-Child Care Impacts-Story Needed

In preparation for a possible Minnesota state government shutdown, the Minnesota Department of Human Services has contacted families and providers using the Child Care Assistance Program with information about services and payments during a shutdown period. We have posted this information on our website at http://bit.ly/jifqyb.

If you are a parent or child care provider who will be affected by a government shutdown, please contact Chris at cbreva@childcareworks.org TODAY (Tuesday) to let Child Care WORKS know what the impact will be on your children, family or child care program. We are collecting stories to include in an affidavit we have been asked to submit to the court currently responding to petitions by Governor Dayton and Attorney General Swanson regarding what services should be maintained during a government shutdown.

Your stories help illustrate potential impacts on the health and safety of Minnesota children should the government shut down on July 1; please be as specific as possible and include your name and email/phone number where we can reach you with any questions. The affidavit is due Wednesday morning, so please send your story to cbreva@childcareworks.org today by 4 p.m.

Thank you. We appreciate this extra effort today to communicate that child care is an essential service to Minnesota children and families!
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Sugar Magnolia 11:32 AM 06-21-2011
...I have a political comment here. HOW can a STATE do this to CHILDREN? You know who is the first to suffer when states play politics with budgets? The children of lower income parents, the sick, the old, the handicapped, the jobless. When will this madness stop? The young children of these politicians will not suffer, because they go to pricey private "acadamies" and have no use for state funding! Essentially they are saying: "Hey, I know, instead of raising taxes on the rich or corporations, let's kick the working poor while they are down. Underemployed? Don't care. Raising small children as a single parent? Tough. Trying to go to school to better yourself? Good luck." GRRRR!!! Yes, its a recession and state budgets are tight, but THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!! Shame on you MN!!!!!!
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Blackcat31 11:39 AM 06-21-2011
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
...I have a political comment here. HOW can a STATE do this to CHILDREN? You know who is the first to suffer when states play politics with budgets? The children of lower income parents, the sick, the old, the handicapped, the jobless. When will this madness stop? The young children of these politicians will not suffer, because they go to pricey private "acadamies" and have no use for state funding! Essentially they are saying: "Hey, I know, instead of raising taxes on the rich or corporations, let's kick the working poor while they are down. Underemployed? Don't care. Raising small children as a single parent? Tough. Trying to go to school to better yourself? Good luck." GRRRR!!! Yes, its a recession and state budgets are tight, but THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!! Shame on you MN!!!!!!
My only comments on this subject is that the mis-use of the program by SOME of the parents of these small children is exsctly why we are in this position. Too many people treat welfare as a hand out and NOT a hand up like it should be. I have 75% of my families receiving state aid/assistance for their child care and they are ALL the first to drop off and the last to pick up. This is a time for people to stand up and be responsible and have some accountibility. I do feel bad for those who truely need this program and will undoubtedly suffer great financial hardships but honestly, in all my years of doing child care, I have only run across 1 or 2 of these families.

Our state needs to step up and make families accountible for their use and need of the program. Too many unemployed parents are using child care to job search when in reality they are sitting at home channel surfing instead. Too many loop holes.

When I notified my families of the possiblity of no services, every single one of them said some version of "Well, good thing I don't have a job yet." or "Well atleast, my boyfriend can watch him since he is home all day"!
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Zoe 11:47 AM 06-21-2011
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
My only comments on this subject is that the mis-use of the program by SOME of the parents of these small children is exsctly why we are in this position. Too many people treat welfare as a hand out and NOT a hand up like it should be. I have 75% of my families receiving state aid/assistance for their child care and they are ALL the first to drop off and the last to pick up. This is a time for people to stand up and be responsible and have some accountibility. I do feel bad for those who truely need this program and will undoubtedly suffer great financial hardships but honestly, in all my years of doing child care, I have only run across 1 or 2 of these families.

Our state needs to step up and make families accountible for their use and need of the program. Too many unemployed parents are using child care to job search when in reality they are sitting at home channel surfing instead. Too many loop holes.

When I notified my families of the possiblity of no services, every single one of them said some version of "Well, good thing I don't have a job yet." or "Well atleast, my boyfriend can watch him since he is home all day"!

And it's for THAT reason that I don't take state assisted families. My father owns a financing company for those with poor credit so that they can get furniture or appliances and make monthly payments. He gets burned WAY too much by people and I therefore am very skeptical of those receiving assistance.

I know it doesn't apply to everyone. I've had to be on assistance at one point....because I NEEDED it. But I've yet to run into someone who, like me, appreciates and uses this help to climb out of financial struggles.

I really really hope our state figures this out by next Friday. Too many people I know are losing their jobs, or not getting paid....it sucks.
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jojosmommy 12:42 PM 06-21-2011
All politics aside, some people like me are loosing a majority of their income because of this. 4 of my 6 paying kids (1 other is mine) are on assistance. All full time, do the math, thousands in lost income in a month.

I am not going to talk about IF they should be on assistance or not. If you don't agree with the program don't take assistance families.

Some people (including me) are hardworking and still face hardships like this due to unecessary bickering and political nonsense.
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Blackcat31 01:46 PM 06-21-2011
Originally Posted by jojosmommy:
All politics aside, some people like me are loosing a majority of their income because of this. 4 of my 6 paying kids (1 other is mine) are on assistance. All full time, do the math, thousands in lost income in a month.

I am not going to talk about IF they should be on assistance or not. If you don't agree with the program don't take assistance families.

Some people (including me) are hardworking and still face hardships like this due to unecessary bickering and political nonsense.
I completely understand what you are saying and feel for you. I am in the same boat with possibly losing a significant amount of income but this stalemate the government is at is NOT unnecessary bickering or political nonsense. It is about where our (everyone MN resident) tax dollars go and how they should be allocated. I personally would like to see more funding given to the schools for extra curricular activies and for elective courses versus food stamps,cash or child care assistance for a family who doesn't hold up their end of the deal and ONLY use it to get on their own two feet. I would rather see it go toward our roads and our state parks as well as for environmental issues. I would like to see rates paid by the CCAP to child care providers raised instead of giving another million to the families receiving the assistance. Providers in our state have not recieved a raise in rates paid out by the state in almost 5 years!!

I would think that balancing a budget for an entire state is rather difficult when the same groups of people keep getting bigger and bigger chunks of the money while everything else falls to the wayside. These same children who have parents on assistance will not have hot lunches, music programs, phy-ed classes or the option of having a computer in their classrooms when they do get to school if we, as a state continue to spend as we have. It is sad that it has come to this and we are facing a possible shut down but in reality, something has to give or there will be no programs at all. Then taking families on assistance will be a moot point because there will be no program.
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jojosmommy 02:33 PM 06-21-2011
All I am going to say is that I attended two parades in the last week with my child and 2 of my local area senators attended both parades. Shouldn't they be spending more time trying to balance the budget and less time parading around (literally) schmoozing? Too bad now adays none of what is important to the people is actually considered. What each politician gets from the deal is more on their minds than the people they are supposedly working for.
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Blackcat31 02:36 PM 06-21-2011
Originally Posted by jojosmommy:
All I am going to say is that I attended two parades in the last week with my child and 2 of my local area senators attended both parades. Shouldn't they be spending more time trying to balance the budget and less time parading around (literally) schmoozing? Too bad now adays none of what is important to the people is actually considered. What each politician gets from the deal is more on their minds than the people they are supposedly working for.
Sad but true.
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Cat Herder 04:13 PM 06-21-2011
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
My only comments on this subject is that the mis-use of the program by SOME of the parents of these small children is exactly why we are in this position. Too many people treat welfare as a hand out and NOT a hand up like it should be.

This is a time for people to stand up and be responsible and have some accountability. I do feel bad for those who truely need this program and will undoubtedly suffer great financial hardships but honestly, in all my years of doing child care, I have only run across 1 or 2 of these families.

Our state needs to step up and make families accountible for their use and need of the program. Too many unemployed parents are using child care to job search when in reality they are sitting at home channel surfing instead. Too many loop holes.

When I notified my families of the possiblity of no services, every single one of them said some version of "Well, good thing I don't have a job yet." or "Well at least, my boyfriend can watch him since he is home all day"!
I could have written this myself!!! Excellent post!!!

I, too, have run across only two of these families who actually NEEDED assistance in ALL my years...the rest were manipulators of the system. I choose to give BOTH free childcare (2 years each, both with 3 kids, while in State paid school) to prevent them from being victims of the "Disabling" from government handouts.

They eventually both got handouts, anyway, and both are sitting at home with new degrees I help fund and cannot afford to get for myself.

When asked they say "I Cant' afford to get a job because I'll lose my benefits."

Never again.

(I did not correct your post on purpose to be a smartA$$ , Blackcat.. I hit change all on spell check. )
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jen 04:21 PM 06-21-2011
Originally Posted by jojosmommy:
All I am going to say is that I attended two parades in the last week with my child and 2 of my local area senators attended both parades. Shouldn't they be spending more time trying to balance the budget and less time parading around (literally) schmoozing? Too bad now adays none of what is important to the people is actually considered. What each politician gets from the deal is more on their minds than the people they are supposedly working for.
I don't believe that the governor had called them back in to session yet...
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jen 04:26 PM 06-21-2011
Originally Posted by Catherder:
I could have written this myself!!! Excellent post!!!

I, too, have run across only two of these families who actually NEEDED assistance in ALL my years...the rest were manipulators of the system. I choose to give BOTH free childcare (2 years each, both with 3 kids, while in State paid school) to prevent them from being victims of the "Disabling" from government handouts.

They eventually both got handouts, anyway, and both are sitting at home with new degrees I help fund and cannot afford to get for myself.

When asked they say "I Cant' afford to get a job because I'll lose my benefits."

Never again.

(I did not correct your post on purpose to be a smartA$$ , Blackcat.. I hit change all on spell check. )
The system is screwed up....I watched a think on 20/20 (?) recently about a single Mom who was working full time and getting childcare benefits. She got a raise so the State pulled her childcare benefits...her raise cost her about $500 per month and she was facing foreclosure. Sometimes we really do set people up to fail.
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Blackcat31 06:56 AM 06-22-2011
Originally Posted by Catherder:
(I did not correct your post on purpose to be a smartA$$ , Blackcat.. I hit change all on spell check. )
No worries! I am a bad speller when I am all worked up LOL!!! Psst, I also correct mis-spelled words when I quote other because I just can't help it...I am a victim of involuntary editting....)

Originally Posted by jen:
The system is screwed up....I watched a think on 20/20 (?) recently about a single Mom who was working full time and getting childcare benefits. She got a raise so the State pulled her childcare benefits...her raise cost her about $500 per month and she was facing foreclosure. Sometimes we really do set people up to fail.
This is unfortunately very sad and very true. So many families are trapped in the system and are never taught a way to get out. It is a lose-lose situation for those that are really trying and a win-win for those that really just make the system a way of life. Like so many things in life, it becomes easiest to do what you've always done. Each generation raises the next and pretty soon it becomes a prison of mis-use, manipulation and sadly comfort and security.

I had a family give their two-weeks notice a few years ago when their co-pay was raised. The reason mom told me they were going to stay home was because they would receive more in food stamps/cash asistance if they just gave the child care costs and had one parent stay home. They paid around $112 per month for 2 full time children and it was being raised to like $143 per month. There was no incentive for them to continue working or to earn a higher education, so they sat back and decided to collect more benefits because...well, because they could.
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kidkair 08:34 PM 06-22-2011
When I needed help when I was just starting out I hated going to the government offices. I felt like they viewed me as scum and didn't want to give me any help. I was asked tons of questions and felt like they thought I was an idiot. It was a degrading experience and I hope to never have to ask for help again. I truly needed help and did get it and I got rid of it as fast as I could too. I can't understand why people would want to go through that over and over again in the same way I don't understand domestic abuse victims.
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Unregistered 08:47 PM 06-22-2011
I am a 30 year old single mother of two. My daughter turned 2 last week, and my son is 10 months. Their father and I split when I was pregnant with our son, and becoming financially independent has been struggle. With the states help, I have climbed my way out of food stamps and into management... continuing to move up, now with an opportunity to manage multiple locations of the company I work for.

I could not, and can not afford to work at all without childcare assistance. I do not know how I am going to handle this situation. I do not have family in town, and their father works full time as well. The cost to have both of my children in daycare is more than I make. But I have to work, for my own sanity. To provide for my children and to contribute to society. It fufills me as an individual and I am good at my job.

I will be devestated if this shutdown pulls me away. As will my employers. Neither myself or my company can afford to lose even a week... And if by chance I can get my mom to travel this far to help me out, then my kids, especially my 2 year old, will miss her friends and teachers so much. They will be confused and it will throw them off entirely.

My life is hard. I am exhausted by 6pm every day, and still have 1.5 hrs of work before my kids are in bed. And another 1.5 after that cleaning up after them. I am happy though. My kids are happy.

I am so grateful for the assistance I have received to date. I pray, hands and knees, that the government does not shutdown. That I can keep working. And that I won't spend my entire savings to do so.
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Michael 11:14 PM 06-22-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I am a 30 year old single mother of two. My daughter turned 2 last week, and my son is 10 months. Their father and I split when I was pregnant with our son, and becoming financially independent has been struggle. With the states help, I have climbed my way out of food stamps and into management... continuing to move up, now with an opportunity to manage multiple locations of the company I work for.

I could not, and can not afford to work at all without childcare assistance. I do not know how I am going to handle this situation. I do not have family in town, and their father works full time as well. The cost to have both of my children in daycare is more than I make. But I have to work, for my own sanity. To provide for my children and to contribute to society. It fufills me as an individual and I am good at my job.

I will be devestated if this shutdown pulls me away. As will my employers. Neither myself or my company can afford to lose even a week... And if by chance I can get my mom to travel this far to help me out, then my kids, especially my 2 year old, will miss her friends and teachers so much. They will be confused and it will throw them off entirely.

My life is hard. I am exhausted by 6pm every day, and still have 1.5 hrs of work before my kids are in bed. And another 1.5 after that cleaning up after them. I am happy though. My kids are happy.

I am so grateful for the assistance I have received to date. I pray, hands and knees, that the government does not shutdown. That I can keep working. And that I won't spend my entire savings to do so.
Would you write me at director@daycare.com and put Daycare Assistance in the Subject line of the Email?
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Cat Herder 06:39 AM 06-23-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I am a 30 year old single mother of two. My daughter turned 2 last week, and my son is 10 months. Their father and I split when I was pregnant with our son, and becoming financially independent has been struggle. With the states help, I have climbed my way out of food stamps and into management... continuing to move up, now with an opportunity to manage multiple locations of the company I work for.

I could not, and can not afford to work at all without childcare assistance. I do not know how I am going to handle this situation. I do not have family in town, and their father works full time as well. The cost to have both of my children in daycare is more than I make. But I have to work, for my own sanity. To provide for my children and to contribute to society. It fulfills me as an individual and I am good at my job.

I will be devastated if this shutdown pulls me away. As will my employers. Neither myself or my company can afford to lose even a week... And if by chance I can get my mom to travel this far to help me out, then my kids, especially my 2 year old, will miss her friends and teachers so much. They will be confused and it will throw them off entirely.

My life is hard. I am exhausted by 6pm every day, and still have 1.5 hrs of work before my kids are in bed. And another 1.5 after that cleaning up after them. I am happy though. My kids are happy.

I am so grateful for the assistance I have received to date. I pray, hands and knees, that the government does not shutdown. That I can keep working. And that I won't spend my entire savings to do so.
I am glad it has helped you get an education. I really am.

I also was a single mother of two, ironically my ex left when DS was an infant. I picked him , not the Government, it was not forced on me. It did not work out, I had to adjust. I understand how hard it is.

I put myself through school, created my own job so I could work AND care for my children without ANY assistance. I am also tired after 6pm, I also have to clean up after my kids every night after working 12 hour days.

My needs and personal fulfillment went to the back burner, I have kids and they come first. I made the decision to have them.

I had to live within my means. I don't understand how others cannot....

What I really, really don't understand is why, after getting a job in management, you still need to be on the system that is supported by everyone elses taxes??? Please explain that to me.
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MommyMuffin 06:55 AM 06-23-2011
Just had a story to share: I had a coworker who had 5 kids and kept getting pregnant and having abortions. She didnt make a lot of money and wouldnt move up the career ladder because then she would make too much money to keep her state help.

I was struggling trying to figure out how I could stay home and raise my daughter because that was the most important thing to me. I often wondered why she didnt just stay home with them. One say I asked her and she said she wouldnt stay home with her kids because they "drove her crazy."

I see the point of view of those trying to work but cant move up the ladder because of loss of help and those who stay home to care for their children.

The part I dont understand is why she kept having kids? They are real people with big needs.

Regardless, the shut down will affect many many people and it will make life hard for lots.
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Cat Herder 06:56 AM 06-23-2011
Originally Posted by kidkair:
When I needed help when I was just starting out I hated going to the government offices. I felt like they viewed me as scum and didn't want to give me any help. I was asked tons of questions and felt like they thought I was an idiot. It was a degrading experience and I hope to never have to ask for help again. I truly needed help and did get it and I got rid of it as fast as I could too. I can't understand why people would want to go through that over and over again in the same way I don't understand domestic abuse victims.
That is what it is meant to do and I am so glad you got on your feet. It feels amazing doesn't it???

I just hope it will still be around for those who REALLY NEED it. It could be any one of us at any time. We could be struck down tomorrow without the physical ability to provide for our children, you know?

That is what scares me. Disability, Social Security, Retirement and Life Insurance are not paying as well for many of the Veterans families and our Seniors. They are struggling while others are getting a free ride.
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dEHmom 07:02 AM 06-23-2011
i don't mean to threadjack or nothing here, but I just wanted to say something that regards state paid (well i'm in Canada and it's not called that but social assistance).

I agree with some of the posts that have been submitted here.

It's a tragedy because so many will suffer, especially the children.

Here's some points that I think should be looked at or addressed when people are assistance...

1- smoker? ok, well if you can afford to buy cigarettes, then you don't need assistance. It ticks me off to think that tax dollars go to support a habit, when the money is supposed to be used for food and shelter, and providing clothing for the children.

2- top brand clothing? hmm, i don't even wear top name brand clothing, that's not fair. you don't need assistance.

3- get pregnant while on the system? sorry, get your ass to work. I personally know of at least 3 families that have done this. a single mom with 4 kids from different dads, one of which she has done 3 paternity tests and still no idea who the father of this boy is. she has a new child everytime her assistance is about to stop so she doesn't have to work, and doesn't have to pay for her daughters dance class, or sons hockey. And I know she has bought her kids every gaming system under the sun, yet she couldn't pay her sister in law and brother $25 for her childs bed? It was a brand new $500 bed and they only asked her for $25 and now they no longer talk because she says they are selfish to ask her to pay for the bed! Oh and she is a smoker!



It bothers me because I live on a tight income, barely making payments and putting food on my table. I luckily have a lot of family who buys tons of clothes for the kids every bday, easter, christmas etc. So they always have nice new clothes. I understand people on assistance most likely receive gifts like this, maybe even name brand clothing too, but I think if you receive a check from the government, you should have to keep every receipt, and if they choose to pull your file that month and verify that every dollar they gave you was used appropriately, so be it. But at least they would have some fear that they will have to show their spendings and maybe not spend it on unneccessary things.

I apologize if this is coming off harsh, and I realize resources would be a factor in the reasoning for not doing this, but honestly, the money the governments would save by doing this would probably equal millions a year. The Welfare, Social Assistance or State Aid programs are wasting money by allowing people who abuse it to continue.
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Blackcat31 08:16 AM 06-23-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I am a 30 year old single mother of two. My daughter turned 2 last week, and my son is 10 months. Their father and I split when I was pregnant with our son, and becoming financially independent has been struggle. With the states help, I have climbed my way out of food stamps and into management... continuing to move up, now with an opportunity to manage multiple locations of the company I work for.

I could not, and can not afford to work at all without childcare assistance. I do not know how I am going to handle this situation. I do not have family in town, and their father works full time as well. The cost to have both of my children in daycare is more than I make. But I have to work, for my own sanity. To provide for my children and to contribute to society. It fufills me as an individual and I am good at my job.

I will be devestated if this shutdown pulls me away. As will my employers. Neither myself or my company can afford to lose even a week... And if by chance I can get my mom to travel this far to help me out, then my kids, especially my 2 year old, will miss her friends and teachers so much. They will be confused and it will throw them off entirely.

My life is hard. I am exhausted by 6pm every day, and still have 1.5 hrs of work before my kids are in bed. And another 1.5 after that cleaning up after them. I am happy though. My kids are happy.

I am so grateful for the assistance I have received to date. I pray, hands and knees, that the government does not shutdown. That I can keep working. And that I won't spend my entire savings to do so.
I think you have a great story and you sound like a good mom who is really trying to do right by your children (and yourself) to contribute to society and not abuse the system like so many others do. It is nice to hear these kinds of stories but I too wonder how come after working in a management position you are still needing assistance for childcare? Please do not say it is because child care is expensive because I am a childcare provider and techinically fall into the low-income bracket myself. I make less than some of the families I provide care for and although I do not apply for some of the services that are available to me, I do qualify.

I also find it rather odd that you are allowed to aquire a savings account while collecting assistance form the state which is tax payer dollars. I dream of a savings account, and retirement benefits, and health insurance, and any kind of benefits that most people who work recieve. Don't get me wrong, I am NOT complaining about the career I chose to work in and all the disadvantages that come with it (no paid sick/vacation/personal etc days). I just do not think that people recieving assistance should be allowed to smoke, drive expensive cars and or have a savings account while collecting dollars from other people who work just as hard!!

I do not have a savings account because I use those few "extra" dollars I have each month for medical expenses (my DH is an insulin diabetic), heat costs, food and general living and child care expenses RATHER than recieve any aid from the state. If I just collected assistance, I could use those extra dollars and amass quite a savings account instead. But I don't. I do not even get a tax refund. I pay money into the IRS each year because my DH and I are both self-employed.

I also completely understand the difficulties your children will have to endure if they cannot attend their childcare since most children do bond with their friends and caregiver, but I hope you do not think that your child care provider should just provide services for free while this whole shut-down is going on, because that would not be right at all. That is where the problem lies, IMHO, people are so concerned that the children are going to suffer the most by this (and I do think they will) but I have had many people act as if I am the one who is hurting them by NOT providing services to the families on assistance during this mess. As if it is somehow ME who is hurting the kids by saying I am not going to be paid so they cannot attend!?!

And dEHmom is right, every single one of my families on assistance smoke, drive cars newer than mine, have mnicured nails, own an iphone or blackberry their kids wear brand name clothing and they eat at McDonald's more than once a week! Several of the moms have one or more degrees that they earned and do not use. They have all taken vacations and 50% of the families I have on assistance have been to Disney Land (thanks to tax time!). To clarify, I am NOT saying all families on assistance are like this, I am onlytelling what I have personally seen in my decades of involvement with children, families and the assistance program.

I truely wish I had an answer that would fix this terribly flawed system of giving, spending, giving, spending but I have nothing. I do know that their does need to be some accountiblity with the families recieving assistance and there needs to be some rules and guidelines put into place. The system at its inception was for all the right reasons and yet today, many many generations later, the program is NOTHING in comparison to its original intentions.

If this shut down does occur, I will be out 85% of my income but I will NOT provide child care for FREE since I kinda feel like that is already what I do for a majority of these families.
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Unregistered 05:07 PM 06-23-2011
I am a sigle mom of two kids. I do receive child care assistance in which I am so grateful for. I have a good job and do not receive any other assistance including child support. I pay my own rent, buy my own food, I don't even receive discounts for school lunches. I am very proud to be independent but again, am grateful for the child care assistance. While I completely agree that changes have to be made, how about we start with drug testing to receive any kind of government assistance? I'm betting that could save us a lot of money!!
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Unregistered 10:18 PM 06-23-2011
Yes, in many markets. Costs for childcare for my one child while I was in grad school were more than my rent. I know most posters here don't charge that much, but Check the facts. We are also in an era of unprecedented job loss. Nationally. Try looking for a job in your free time, just for fun. Not just applying - time consuming alone, but see how many you actually have to turn down in your experiment. Many qualified, recommended, educated folks are down and out.

Many states also encourage saving for emergencies - anyone can do it and SHOULD, but the amount IS reported and calculated into available resources. States also should have saved for emergencies, and contingencies like an unsettled budget.

Also, not paying withholding will leave you owing at the end of the year, and rob you of a child tax credit. Incorporate, pay in and you probably will do better than break even.

I don't understand why the childcare assistance is not available to parents willing to care for their own children, but unless jobs are created that cover the costs of rent plus childcare, the imbalance will remain.

If every single welfare mom opened a home daycare, where would we be then?

Frankly - if those moms had the choice, they could do a lot better by their children than the choices many of them face for care.
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MN Mom 10:33 PM 06-23-2011
I understand the need, especially for single mothers trying to work. I know a few good, hard working, single mothers who couldn't survive without childcare assistance.

That being said...I hope the shutdown is a wake-up call for many of those families who abuse the system. They need a reality check...and FAST. You CAN live on very low income without assistance. I am living proof.

My husband makes 12.00/hour. I am a stay at home mom. We have 4 children, a house payment that we can barely make, utilities, food, and gas. I don't do WIC, I don't do food stamps, or get free healthcare (we pay 100/week for our own). We are just very very careful about how we budget our money.

We preserve a good portion of our own food, and get our pork from the farm (beef is a rare treat around here). My kids all wear hand-me-downs(a lot of them like new, and named brand). If they get anything new...it's shoes, underwear, and socks; or my mother will buy them a couple of outfits from Target. There are not a lot of extra curricular activities unless it involves academics or music. My oldest daughter plays violin, and my 2nd oldest will be playing flute next year. Sports are expensive...so they are out until further notice. My van is OLD, has rust (yay MN Winter roads), and has a lot of miles on her...but she runs good and gets me to where I need to go. We do NOT go to the doctor for every little fever or sniffle, or cough. I have to use very good judgement in regards to non-emergency visits. Yet...my kids are healthy, up to date on vaccines, and thriving.

Is it stressful? Heck yes. There are months where I am not sure how we are going to survive. Sometimes we have to play catch-up with the house payment to put food on the table. In the end, we always have food, we always have shelter, and most importantly we always have each other.

*addendum*
Many of you know from another (private) thread that I am a smoker (well in the process of quitting) and that my husband smokes. We do NOT pay for packs of cigarettes. If I had to pay 5 dollars or 6 dollars a pack...I would have quit along time ago. We make our own and both of us quitting will save us maybe 30 dollars a month due to not buying supplies.
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Cat Herder 07:58 AM 06-24-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Yes, in many markets. Costs for childcare for my one child while I was in grad school were more than my rent.
I understand that, I do.

What I don't understand is why it is anyone Else's responsibility that you chose to have a child that you could not afford daycare for while in grad school that most of us could never afford. Why should your ambitions be any more important than anyone elses?

I am not trying to be ugly here. I am trying to wrap my head around why people feel that having a child is a right that the government (funded by the rest of us) is supposed to pay for. Having a child is a responsibility.

When I was in college I knew if I got pregnant that I would have to choose school or motherhood. That is why I chose birth control. Not using birth control when I could not afford a child would have been irresponsible and selfish.

What happened to personal responsibility for your own choices?? Getting pregnant is preventable and not mandatory.
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dEHmom 08:06 AM 06-24-2011
Originally Posted by MN Mom:
Many of you know from another (private) thread that I am a smoker (well in the process of quitting) and that my husband smokes. We do NOT pay for packs of cigarettes. If I had to pay 5 dollars or 6 dollars a pack...I would have quit along time ago. We make our own and both of us quitting will save us maybe 30 dollars a month due to not buying supplies.
here the cheapest pack of cigarettes is $10!!!!!!!!!! unless you buy the 20 packs and those are 9.85/pack!
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dEHmom 08:22 AM 06-24-2011
Originally Posted by Catherder:
I understand that, I do.

What I don't understand is why it is anyone Else's responsibility that you chose to have a child that you could not afford daycare for while in grad school that most of us could never afford. Why should your ambitions be any more important than anyone elses?

I am not trying to be ugly here. I am trying to wrap my head around why people feel that having a child is a right that the government (funded by the rest of us) is supposed to pay for. Having a child is a responsibility.

When I was in college I knew if I got pregnant that I would have to choose school or motherhood. That is why I chose birth control. Not using birth control when I could not afford a child would have been irresponsible.

What happened to personal responsibility for your own choices?? Getting pregnant is preventable and not mandatory.
Amen!

I was 17 when I got pregnant with my daughter. Best choice? Nope. Best thing that ever happened to me? You betcha!

But we are 100% responsible for ourselves. Sure we've had some rough times, and people have helped us through. There are always times in everyones life where they need help. And there is nothing wrong with that. But having a child is no one elses responsibility financially or anything else. It bothers me when people have children just for handouts. Or when they EXPECT a handout because they've had children. Get over it.

Luckily in Canada we have free health care, and so we never have to fear those unexpected medical bills. But things like dental care and such are not free. A portion of it will be covered based on the type of treatment needed and your coverage.

But I agree with you Catherder, that pregnancy is preventable, it is a choice (usually) and people should not have a child unless they are ready, able and capable of providing for this child.

I also agree with the pp who said drug testing is a good starting point.I've said it many many times.
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MarinaVanessa 08:28 AM 06-24-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I am a sigle mom of two kids. I do receive child care assistance in which I am so grateful for. I have a good job and do not receive any other assistance including child support. I pay my own rent, buy my own food, I don't even receive discounts for school lunches. I am very proud to be independent but again, am grateful for the child care assistance. While I completely agree that changes have to be made, how about we start with drug testing to receive any kind of government assistance? I'm betting that could save us a lot of money!!
I hardly if ever respond to unregistered comments but I have to in this case because I agree 100% with that comment.

I split with my DD's father when she was month's old and needed help. Her father refused to keep a job (like someone said earlier, I picked him ) and I was on WIC, foodstamps and cash assistance while I was pregnant because I had to pay our bills somehow. Once I gave him the boot I got child care assistance and got a job. In less than 6 months I was off of everything. I appreciated the assistance while I had it but that was what it was. Assistance, a hand-up not a hand-out. It made me so mad that here I was embarrassed that I was at the point that I needed financial assistance and was in a hurry to get off of it while the person next to me in the assistance waiting room, my neighbor, even some friends were on it also and drove new cars (I rode the bus or my bike), wore Jordans (I wore payless), their kids wore expensive clothing (my baby daughter wore hand me downs) etc. and you could smell the weed on them . I would have been more than willing to take surprised drug tests back then to keep my assistance and agree that if everyone would be required to take a drug test and pass it to keep their benefits we would save a ton of money. Assistance is not help to be used to pay someones drug habit.
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Blackcat31 08:33 AM 06-24-2011
Originally Posted by Catherder:
I understand that, I do.

What I don't understand is why it is anyone Else's responsibility that you chose to have a child that you could not afford daycare for while in grad school that most of us could never afford. Why should your ambitions be any more important than anyone elses?

I am not trying to be ugly here. I am trying to wrap my head around why people feel that having a child is a right that the government (funded by the rest of us) is supposed to pay for. Having a child is a responsibility.

When I was in college I knew if I got pregnant that I would have to choose school or motherhood. That is why I chose birth control. Not using birth control when I could not afford a child would have been irresponsible and selfish.

What happened to personal responsibility for your own choices?? Getting pregnant is preventable and not mandatory.




EXACTLY!! What she said! ^^^^^^^

I chose to parent my child when I got pregnant. I quit college because I could not do both...well I could have if I had applied for assistance but I got pregnant. ME. not the next door neighbor who works 10-12 hours a day to pay their bills. ME. (Well my DH too..LOL!) We took resonsibility for our child. We picked up extra odd jobs, so make an extra buck so our bills were paid, food was on our table and our lights and heat were on and working. We completely quailified for every type of assistance available but did not take any of it! ZERO. I gave up my dreams of going to college because I had a baby.

I recently went back to college for the first time. My baby that I chose to parent and give up college for is now 19 (almost 20) years old!! My DH and I also took our long awaited honeymoon in Feb of 2010. We've been married for 21 years!!!

To the same unregistered poster (that catherder quoted) who said, "I don't understand why the childcare assistance is not available to parents willing to care for their own children," are you kidding me???? Why should the government pay a parent to care for their own child???? I do not understand that rational at all.

You also said, "Many states also encourage saving for emergencies - anyone can do it and SHOULD, but the amount IS reported and calculated into available resources." The savings accounts that many of the welfare receipiants have are ONLY reported if they themselves report it.....of course if they report it, they will lose benefits so how many of them do you really think report it. The two parents I have who have savings accounts keep them in their children's names so the state cannot touch them.

...also thanks for the tax tips, but I do pay in quarterly and I do not recieve the child tax credit because my children are adults now. I still pay in because I am honest on my taxes and account for every penny I earn. I pay in because I do not try to manipulate the system and take write-offs that are not 100% legal and I apparently am capable of running a busy childcare on a very tight budget. The only advice my accountant ever gives me is that I should spend more. My DH and I have both built our own businesses from the ground up through hard work and personal respnsibilty. I am also paying my own way through college (minus a grant for one semester's worth of text books from the local CCR&R) despite being eligible for Financial Aid.

Being a responsible, contributing member of society is NOT difficult if people will just stop thinking everyone but themselves are responsible for their personal choices.



To MarinaVanessa; That is a PERFECT example of what assistance should look like. You used the hand up. You did not make it a way of life. :-)
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Country Kids 08:35 AM 06-24-2011
I do know that just because you are in management does not mean you make the money. It depends what kind of management you are in and what company you work for on what you make.

I recently had a friend who went from working for a private company to working in a state job. Her salary was cut in almost half. You would think she would make more doing work for the state but no. She also didn't have a choice about staying with the private company because the company shut down. To get another type job in the field she was in she needed a degree and she never had one because she had worked her way up the company ladder.

I have had professional people that work hard at their jobs (working in banks, hospitals, and such) and guess what-they were on assistance. One lady's husband up and left her suddenly and the other one the dad wasn't in the picture.

So just because it sounds like you make alot of money by your job title that isn't always true. I know I make more than alot of people and doing childcare which is astonishing.

For the comment of getting pregnant while going to college and why not use birth control. I had a surprise pregnancy after having 3 children and I was on birth control so that is another thing that people shouldn't judge on.

I agree some of these people should not being getting help but do we deny the children also? Then you have the hard working people or the ones that have lost jobs and can't find another good paying job. Some of these people were doing just fine before all this recession thing so until you walk in their shoes we shouldn't be judging.
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MarinaVanessa 08:41 AM 06-24-2011
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
For the comment of getting pregnant while going to college and why not use birth control. I had a surprise pregnancy after having 3 children and I was on birth control so that is another thing that people shouldn't judge on.
Ditto here too. I was on the shot and still got preggers .
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Blackcat31 08:41 AM 06-24-2011
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
I agree some of these people should not being getting help but do we deny the children also? Then you have the hard working people or the ones that have lost jobs and can't find another good paying job. Some of these people were doing just fine before all this recession thing so until you walk in their shoes we shouldn't be judging.
Those are NOT the families I am talking about. I am talking about the ones who abuse and manipulate our system so they can get a free handout and NEVER have to be responsible. I am talking about the ones who never ever leave the system, even after generations of family members on it. I am talking about the parents who sit home and lie about job searching or the ones who do drugs, the ones who take vacations and drive fancy cars, the ones who get their nails done and dress their children like GAP ads. I am talking about the ones who continue to have children despite their already poor financial situation.

THOSE are the ones who have made it feel criminal for the ones you are talking about to even go in and ask for some assistance.
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dEHmom 10:04 AM 06-24-2011
I've known 2 women whose husbands had vasectomy's and 15 yrs later all of a sudden they are pregnant, and yes, the husband was the father.

SOMETIMES birth control fails, they are all 99.9% effective but there is still that .1% chance. That is why they advise to double up.

We were very careful and ended up with a 3rd. But we made it work.

Friends of ours don't even own their own home, they have 3 kids, and neither of them work. They bounce from one home to another (living with their parents, aunts, uncles, etc) and they have ever new game system, every new movie, you get the picture. I don't know if they are on assistance or not because they've never said, and we've never asked. But I do know that they get ALOT more for child tax benefit and stuff because they have no income from previous years, and so they get the maximum. They get to go on trips, and it really irritates my dh and I because we both work our butts off, and can't afford to do anything. We stay home 99% of the time, and when we have to make extra trips to the city for any reason, that's gas money coming out of food money.

There are MANY families that need the help of assistance, and they rightfully deserve that. But because there are so many abusing the system, they may not be getting what they need. Do you know how long the wait list is for housing? 2 yrs! So a woman with a child who's husband is abusing her and or her child, has to wait 2 yrs before she can get into a place of her own. She has to bounce around in shelters with her child until she can get in. And then there are the people like I mentioned in the previous posts who have another baby every so many years so they can STAY in the system. I don't know how it is everywhere else, but here you have 5 yrs to get a job. 5 YRS! that's until your child is in school. So on year 4, pregnant again. It's disgusting and ridiculous.
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Unregistered 06:13 PM 06-24-2011
I never said I couldn't afford my child while in gradschool.

He was a wanted, intentional child and my assistanceship (a job in the program), which I worked while in the hospital within 6 hours of birth, was generous. If you have worked through a degree, and you want your master's degree - take the GRE and apply to programs with funding. Gradschool pays well and tuition paid out of your funding package is still tax deductible. Funding is merit based, so really, do do your homework.

Why should we be funding foreign countries while our own citizens go without? And really, people, I am not speaking of myself here.

I feel pretty strongly that we should support our neighbors and that paying a stranger to care for the children of families in need is just a way of punishing parents and feeding the machine. I also feel that job seeking should be assisted - not just reported, and that when we spend as much to support the domestic economy as we do overseas the discussions can begin.

We are borrowing from the world for a war effort that is ever expanding. We need to have our national priorities aligned with the survival of our children first and we need to honor parents by valuing their ability to raise their own children at least as well as a college drop out caring for five or more unrelated children.

(BTW - you don't have to drop out of college to raise a child, you just need a good childcare provider)
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Unregistered 08:43 PM 06-30-2011
Originally Posted by Catherder:
I am glad it has helped you get an education. I really am.

I also was a single mother of two, ironically my ex left when DS was an infant. I picked him , not the Government, it was not forced on me. It did not work out, I had to adjust. I understand how hard it is.

I put myself through school, created my own job so I could work AND care for my children without ANY assistance. I am also tired after 6pm, I also have to clean up after my kids every night after working 12 hour days.

My needs and personal fulfillment went to the back burner, I have kids and they come first. I made the decision to have them.

I had to live within my means. I don't understand how others cannot....

What I really, really don't understand is why, after getting a job in management, you still need to be on the system that is supported by everyone elses taxes??? Please explain that to me.
I do not have the time, or the emotional energy to explain anything. I simply did a google search to find out how the government shutdown was affecting other moms in my position, and I found this blog. So I shared my story. I understand your being compelled to respond, however many of the points you responded with do not apply to me, my life or my post. Not to mention the condesending manner in which you made those points.

I am just a real person that this shutdown will affect. And I know, in my heart and mind, that I do not abuse or take for granted what help has been given to me. I am proud, confident that what I'm doing with the help that I'm getting is the right thing.

Although I am still on hands and knees, praying that the shutdown does not take place, I am grateful for the attention that this has brought to the subject. I have learned about myself, and others...some friends, and some strangers like you.

Thank you for your attention.
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Unregistered 09:13 PM 06-30-2011
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I think you have a great story and you sound like a good mom who is really trying to do right by your children (and yourself) to contribute to society and not abuse the system like so many others do. It is nice to hear these kinds of stories but I too wonder how come after working in a management position you are still needing assistance for childcare? Please do not say it is because child care is expensive because I am a childcare provider and techinically fall into the low-income bracket myself. I make less than some of the families I provide care for and although I do not apply for some of the services that are available to me, I do qualify.

I also find it rather odd that you are allowed to aquire a savings account while collecting assistance form the state which is tax payer dollars. I dream of a savings account, and retirement benefits, and health insurance, and any kind of benefits that most people who work recieve. Don't get me wrong, I am NOT complaining about the career I chose to work in and all the disadvantages that come with it (no paid sick/vacation/personal etc days). I just do not think that people recieving assistance should be allowed to smoke, drive expensive cars and or have a savings account while collecting dollars from other people who work just as hard!!

I do not have a savings account because I use those few "extra" dollars I have each month for medical expenses (my DH is an insulin diabetic), heat costs, food and general living and child care expenses RATHER than recieve any aid from the state. If I just collected assistance, I could use those extra dollars and amass quite a savings account instead. But I don't. I do not even get a tax refund. I pay money into the IRS each year because my DH and I are both self-employed.

I also completely understand the difficulties your children will have to endure if they cannot attend their childcare since most children do bond with their friends and caregiver, but I hope you do not think that your child care provider should just provide services for free while this whole shut-down is going on, because that would not be right at all. That is where the problem lies, IMHO, people are so concerned that the children are going to suffer the most by this (and I do think they will) but I have had many people act as if I am the one who is hurting them by NOT providing services to the families on assistance during this mess. As if it is somehow ME who is hurting the kids by saying I am not going to be paid so they cannot attend!?!

And dEHmom is right, every single one of my families on assistance smoke, drive cars newer than mine, have mnicured nails, own an iphone or blackberry their kids wear brand name clothing and they eat at McDonald's more than once a week! Several of the moms have one or more degrees that they earned and do not use. They have all taken vacations and 50% of the families I have on assistance have been to Disney Land (thanks to tax time!). To clarify, I am NOT saying all families on assistance are like this, I am onlytelling what I have personally seen in my decades of involvement with children, families and the assistance program.

I truely wish I had an answer that would fix this terribly flawed system of giving, spending, giving, spending but I have nothing. I do know that their does need to be some accountiblity with the families recieving assistance and there needs to be some rules and guidelines put into place. The system at its inception was for all the right reasons and yet today, many many generations later, the program is NOTHING in comparison to its original intentions.

If this shut down does occur, I will be out 85% of my income but I will NOT provide child care for FREE since I kinda feel like that is already what I do for a majority of these families.
What I meant by entire savings was the five hundred dollars I have tucked away incase of my car, which is not new and which I paid for on my own, breaking down. Or incase money gets really tight, and I can't buy diapers one week with my regular paycheck. It is there with my children in mind. I do not have a credit card or family member to bail me out. I can see how in my original post it sounded as if I had some sort of an "accruing savings account", but that is surely not the case. Also, I would never keep my kids in daycare without paying. I can afford to pay one week (savings), but that's all. Otherwise I'll stay home from work. But I do think it's sad that my provider would be out the income of two kids she was counting on being there. Everything happens for a reason. We will wait it out.
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Sugar Magnolia 04:38 AM 07-01-2011
My heart goes out to the children and providers in MN today. I hope its over very soon.
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Cat Herder 06:44 AM 07-01-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I feel pretty strongly that we should support our neighbors

I also feel that job seeking should be assisted - not just reported,
I love those two statements.

I do volunteer work with a Womens group here that does just that. Clothing, hair, make-up and auto assistance (no public transportation option down here) for Mothers seeking employment. It was started by a local group of retiree's.

It is community based, not government based. We have Chicken-Q's, Bake Sales, Childrens Fairs, craft fairs, a food bank, etc...

They also have training classes on computers, typing, high school/ged, public speaking and other entry level skills. It is fantastic. These Women are built up, not disabled by fear of losing a check if they succeed.

If it were only that easy to solve in both directions.

Most Childcare providers are Mothers too. I am not representing the large centers, I represent those of us that keep 4-8 kids in general.

When we are forced to live off what minimal fees we can collect it effects our entire families. Most of us could probably qualify for the same assistance. It is a miserable cycle. We need to be able to support our kids, too. I guess that is the main point to all of this.

There are no winners with the system as it is. It just turns us against one another.
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Meeko 07:07 AM 07-01-2011
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
My only comments on this subject is that the mis-use of the program by SOME of the parents of these small children is exsctly why we are in this position. Too many people treat welfare as a hand out and NOT a hand up like it should be. I have 75% of my families receiving state aid/assistance for their child care and they are ALL the first to drop off and the last to pick up. This is a time for people to stand up and be responsible and have some accountibility. I do feel bad for those who truely need this program and will undoubtedly suffer great financial hardships but honestly, in all my years of doing child care, I have only run across 1 or 2 of these families.

Our state needs to step up and make families accountible for their use and need of the program. Too many unemployed parents are using child care to job search when in reality they are sitting at home channel surfing instead. Too many loop holes.
When I notified my families of the possiblity of no services, every single one of them said some version of "Well, good thing I don't have a job yet." or "Well atleast, my boyfriend can watch him since he is home all day"!
Amen. Sounds exactly the same as my state parents. I tend 6 kids who's mother is on state assistance. They all have different fathers and she's never been married to any one of them. One month she made a little more money and ended up having to pay $160 out of her own pocket. That's $160 for SIX children for a whole month. She whined and complained and drove me and the other parents crazy. One dad stood behind her at pick up and pulled faces as she whined...I had a hard time keeping a straight face! This dad works two jobs to support his family, since his wife walked out on him and the kids for someone she worked with. He makes $30 a month too much for state assistance with day care. So he pays for his two kids himself and his taxes support Miss Promiscuous Whiner. Seems so unfair.
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Meeko 07:23 AM 07-01-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I am a sigle mom of two kids. I do receive child care assistance in which I am so grateful for. I have a good job and do not receive any other assistance including child support. I pay my own rent, buy my own food, I don't even receive discounts for school lunches. I am very proud to be independent but again, am grateful for the child care assistance. While I completely agree that changes have to be made, how about we start with drug testing to receive any kind of government assistance? I'm betting that could save us a lot of money!!
I so agree with this. Many employers do random drug tests. Fail...and out you go. Should be the same for benefits.

I hate the thought that my hard earned tax dollars are going to support junkies. I even hate the thought that my money buys cigarettes for a huge majority of welfare recipients.....
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Blackcat31 07:43 AM 07-01-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I am a sigle mom of two kids. I do receive child care assistance in which I am so grateful for. I have a good job and do not receive any other assistance including child support. I pay my own rent, buy my own food, I don't even receive discounts for school lunches. I am very proud to be independent but again, am grateful for the child care assistance. While I completely agree that changes have to be made, how about we start with drug testing to receive any kind of government assistance? I'm betting that could save us a lot of money!!
THAT is where most of the problem lies. Child Support is NOT assistance. It shouldn't be included in that area. It should be a responsibility and more effort needs to go towards ensuring these children with deadbeat parents are getting what they rightfully deserve. BOTH parents need to take responsibilty for their offspring.

OP, I am NOT directing this AT you but WITH you....you shouldn't have to collect child care assistance if you receive child support. I feel for you that you are forced to participate with the assistance program to make sure your children are taken care of when the responsibilty should not lie with the tax payers or the state but with your childs' other parent.

You sound like a hardworking parent who is doing the best you can with the situation you are in, however, I feel the state dollars that are devoted to some of the welfare programs we have would be better spent trying to enforce the collection of child support for families like yours who are in financial need of the assistance because of someone else's decision not to parent and take responsibilty for their child(ren).
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Michelle 08:49 AM 07-01-2011
One of my former parents lived in her 3 bedroom 2 bath house for about $100 a month thanks to hud.
She got free childcare thanks to calworks
She got her house cleaned for free because dpss thought she was at high risk for child abuse/neglect so they gave her benefits for that too,(family preservation program) among other benefits such as cash aid, food stamps, bus fair, and college education ( but she dropped out)

now she has decided to become a sahm

I do believe in childcare funding, but I just think all the help she got was ridiculous. Probably the house cleaning ticks me off the most for some reason.
My hands hurt every night from all the cleaning I do all day.
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Unregistered 11:24 AM 07-01-2011
Originally Posted by Michelle:
One of my former parents lived in her 3 bedroom 2 bath house for about $100 a month thanks to hud.
She got free childcare thanks to calworks
She got her house cleaned for free because dpss thought she was at high risk for child abuse/neglect so they gave her benefits for that too,(family preservation program) among other benefits such as cash aid, food stamps, bus fair, and college education ( but she dropped out)

now she has decided to become a sahm

I do believe in childcare funding, but I just think all the help she got was ridiculous. Probably the house cleaning ticks me off the most for some reason.
My hands hurt every night from all the cleaning I do all day.

That is a lot of help! I'm really disgusted that housekeeping was included there....pathetic. My hands hurt too!!! but I do it all. I raised my daughter basically alone after a yucky divorce...and while working two jobs (one full and one part time). I did get child support (a whopping $192.00 month) but no assistance. I walked quite far to the daycare each day then took public transportation to work because I had no car...I didn't get bus fare from anyone. This all makes me sick all of the help these people get. Some really need it but the ones I see out and about and especially in front of me in line at the grocery store do not need all of this aid! Sorry to rant and vent....I feel better now. Enjoy the long weekend. I'm sure many of us will spend a chunk of it cleaning!!!
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Unregistered 07:49 PM 07-02-2011
(I'm a different unregistered person- my name is Amy)

I realize that 99% of the people on this board hate 'welfare leaches,' etc... because of their own financial problems or stereotypes or whatever attitude they have regarding public assistance...

But without child care assistance, I cannot continue to go to work so that I can pay my rent (which I pay at market rate with my earned wages), pay for food (which I pay for at the grocery store with my earned wages), gas for my car (which I pay for with earned wages in order to get to/from work), or medical insurance for my family (a plan offered through my work that I pay for with my earned wages).

What I'm getting at is that as a single parent, I work hard to provide for my family. I have a pretty good full time job, and it does pay well considering the area we live in, and I *want* to provide for my family on my own. If it were financially possible, I'd be more than happy to pay for child care on my own. Being on child care assistance certainly isn't something I'm proud of - to me, it's a necessity. I am at risk of losing my job because of the government shut down. If my child care center isn't able to work with me regarding payment arrangements (paying about $200/month in addition to my regular copay until I'm paid off), I will be forced to leave my job. And my job isn't something that I can just come back to when the government is back up and running - I'll have to find a new one, which will likely take time.

I do not know anyone who is available to watch my two children during the day. ALL of my friends and family in this area work full time jobs, because of course that would be my first course of action.

So... If I end up losing my job because of this, my family will have no income. That means we can apply for cash, food, medical assistance, and instead of being able to provide those things for my family ON MY OWN, the government (aka taxpayers) can handle it for me. Fan-stinking-tastic. I can't think of ANYONE who would want this. How stupid can politicians be? I can see shutting down child care assistance for people who aren't working - but for people who work and are at risk of losing EVERYTHING, child care IS ESSENTIAL.

Others can be judgmental about my situation until they're blue in the face- but judgment doesn't build anything - and my goal is to build a good life for my family. "You shouldn't have gotten pregnant if you can't afford to raise a child," - no one is perfect. At this point, all I can do is continue to work, continue to provide what I can for my family, and build a successful career so that I will never again need to rely on public assistance of any type.
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nannyde 06:47 AM 07-03-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
So... If I end up losing my job because of this, my family will have no income. That means we can apply for cash, food, medical assistance, and instead of being able to provide those things for my family ON MY OWN, the government (aka taxpayers) can handle it for me.
Are you saying you are providing their medical NOW?

Are you receiving child support from their father? If not, is he being prosecuted for that?

Two kids in day care is a HUGE cash subsidy to parents. In the end, it would be cheaper for the tax payers to give you food stamps, medical for your kids, and rent assistance.

It's time to do what my auntie did when she was a young mother. She took care of her friends kids while they worked and they took care of her kids while she worked. They did it for YEARS.

Have you looked into sharing child care between you and another family?

There was a day not so long ago when the idea of paying for day care wasn't even in the mind of the American people. They made it work between each other. They worked opposite shifts and cared for kids when they weren't at work.

Have you thought about moving in with another young family and living really small and sharing child care and expenses?

There are ways to do this but it won't net you a place to live on your own and free time when you are off of your job. When taxpayers are paying for child care THAT'S what they are paying for you. They are paying for the free time you have off after work and your ability to live as a single household.... NOT for the care of the kids. The free care of the kids nets these.

Your response is "do the taxpayers want to have to pay for *** for me instead". My response is: That's not the alternative you should be looking at. You think you are owed that as an alternative. How about the alternative is that YOU make it all happen?

Could the alternative be: Share your home with another family... another young mother or mother and father who have to work to support their kid. YOU share a bedroom with your two kids and give up their bedrooms to a family who can come in and share the rent and the child care work. You live in a small teeny tiny space with your kids and they do too. When one of you goes to work the other cares for ALL the kids. When you cook you cook for EVERYONE and share the advantage of low cost home cooked meals made in bulk. Combine resources so that you don't have to ask for anything. Show us what you are made of instead of showing us what you are saving us.

Live small.... be willing to work while you are not at work. Gather together as a community of friends and family and make it work.

Go old school.... do what our foremothers did... that's complete self reliance. Never stop after the Dad of the kids to do his share in money and CARE of the kids.

Stop telling the taxpayers it could be worse.... take all the "free" out of your head and see if YOU can make it happen on your own. Free child/near free care is not a right. It's a huge luxury that buys you the ability to live as a single family and not have to work on your off times from your job.
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Michelle 03:41 PM 07-03-2011
I think women should charge a $10,000 child support deposit before having sex .

Maybe there will be less dead beat dads!

If only we could actually make this work!
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dEHmom 08:04 AM 07-04-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
(I'm a different unregistered person- my name is Amy)

I realize that 99% of the people on this board hate 'welfare leaches,' etc... because of their own financial problems or stereotypes or whatever attitude they have regarding public assistance...

But without child care assistance, I cannot continue to go to work so that I can pay my rent (which I pay at market rate with my earned wages), pay for food (which I pay for at the grocery store with my earned wages), gas for my car (which I pay for with earned wages in order to get to/from work), or medical insurance for my family (a plan offered through my work that I pay for with my earned wages).

What I'm getting at is that as a single parent, I work hard to provide for my family. I have a pretty good full time job, and it does pay well considering the area we live in, and I *want* to provide for my family on my own. If it were financially possible, I'd be more than happy to pay for child care on my own. Being on child care assistance certainly isn't something I'm proud of - to me, it's a necessity. I am at risk of losing my job because of the government shut down. If my child care center isn't able to work with me regarding payment arrangements (paying about $200/month in addition to my regular copay until I'm paid off), I will be forced to leave my job. And my job isn't something that I can just come back to when the government is back up and running - I'll have to find a new one, which will likely take time.

I do not know anyone who is available to watch my two children during the day. ALL of my friends and family in this area work full time jobs, because of course that would be my first course of action.

So... If I end up losing my job because of this, my family will have no income. That means we can apply for cash, food, medical assistance, and instead of being able to provide those things for my family ON MY OWN, the government (aka taxpayers) can handle it for me. Fan-stinking-tastic. I can't think of ANYONE who would want this. How stupid can politicians be? I can see shutting down child care assistance for people who aren't working - but for people who work and are at risk of losing EVERYTHING, child care IS ESSENTIAL.

Others can be judgmental about my situation until they're blue in the face- but judgment doesn't build anything - and my goal is to build a good life for my family. "You shouldn't have gotten pregnant if you can't afford to raise a child," - no one is perfect. At this point, all I can do is continue to work, continue to provide what I can for my family, and build a successful career so that I will never again need to rely on public assistance of any type.
Hi Amy,
I just want to say, that the comment about not being able to afford to raise a family, and not getting pregnant isn't meant for the people like you. YOU are doing what you need to do to get through tough times in life. No one is judging you, and everyone at some point in life needs help. There is nothing wrong with that.
You sound like a wonderful mother, who is doing what you have to do to raise a great family.

This whole thread is regarding the people who abuse the system. Who don't need it, but use it because it's there and they can.

Congratulations to you for what you are doing for your family, and I wish you the best of luck through these hard times.
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jen 03:05 PM 07-04-2011
Amy, I just wanted to lend my support along with DEHmom and wish you and your family well.
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Cat Herder 06:29 AM 07-05-2011
Amy,

I think everyone see's the difference between meeting immediate, temporary needs and fullfilling personal wants and ambitions.

I don't know anyone who'd begrudge you.

I do hope you can find another way to get through this with old school methods as Nan suggested.

That is how I did it alone with two kids, as well. It is also how she does it everyday.

Don't let it beat you down, pull together with others in the same boat if you can.

Stay strong and good luck.
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Unregistered- Jackie 01:17 PM 07-05-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:

There was a day not so long ago when the idea of paying for day care wasn't even in the mind of the American people. They made it work between each other. They worked opposite shifts and cared for kids when they weren't at work.
My husband and I working work different shifts so we dont have to pay for daycare.

But then we have our next door neighbor who has 2 kids with 2 different dads, gets child support for both. Gets rent assistance, food stamps and pays a whopping 5 dollars every 2 weeks for her daycare. But somehow she can afford to take her kids to 6 flags and is constantly going to concerts...thats what I call abusing the system!
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Unregistered 10:19 AM 07-06-2011
Catherder says:
I don't know anyone who'd begrudge you.
Sounds to me like Nan certainly does. How rude and arrogant of her to tell Amy how to live.
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Unregistered- signed out 12:31 PM 07-06-2011
Some people on here are suggesting that all the people on assistance band together and watch each others kids and or switch shifts with the dad or another family member to make it work. Has anyone considered that some people are just plain unfit to care for kids on a regular basis and this "banding together to make it work" would cause more issues for the kids than providing them with quality care with appropriate providers?

Also, has anyone with this idea thought about how many people use assistance to pay for care and how many few clients there would be if they all found alternatives to licensed in home care? Maybe YOU don't personally take assistance clients but if the overall daycare population was much slimmer there would in turn be less clients for you- private pay or assistance.

And finally, some people have brought up the baby's dad being on the hook for paying and often weasling out of it. MN does have the law that if you choose to apply and accept assistance you MUST be willing to go along with and support court hearings and the like to get support from the dads. Basically if you need supoprt you must be willing to cooperate with the state to try and find the dad and garnish his wages.
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Unregistered 03:28 PM 07-06-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered- signed out:
And finally, some people have brought up the baby's dad being on the hook for paying and often weasling out of it. MN does have the law that if you choose to apply and accept assistance you MUST be willing to go along with and support court hearings and the like to get support from the dads. Basically if you need supoprt you must be willing to cooperate with the state to try and find the dad and garnish his wages.
Then how come I have a dcm in care who has a 9 year old and a 4 year old and has found neither father for her children and yet continues to recieve child care assistance. She has had several men tested for each child and not yet come up with biological father(s). She works on and off and yet has continually received FULL COVERAGE for her child care costs since her 10 year old was first enrolled at 6 weeks old. She pays a $2 co-pay on a bi-weekly basis. She receives 70 hours of care for her children bi-weekly also.

So not once but twice she has made poor choices and besides her children, the taxpayers are the only ones who bear the burden for those choices.

Signed,

NOT FAIR AND SICK OF IT!!!
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PeanutsGalore 07:33 PM 07-06-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Then how come I have a dcm in care who has a 9 year old and a 4 year old and has found neither father for her children and yet continues to recieve child care assistance. She has had several men tested for each child and not yet come up with biological father(s). She works on and off and yet has continually received FULL COVERAGE for her child care costs since her 10 year old was first enrolled at 6 weeks old. She pays a $2 co-pay on a bi-weekly basis. She receives 70 hours of care for her children bi-weekly also.

So not once but twice she has made poor choices and besides her children, the taxpayers are the only ones who bear the burden for those choices.

Signed,

NOT FAIR AND SICK OF IT!!!
You know something? If you don't like the way your client lives her life, then get rid of her. It's rather hypocritical of you to take money from the state for watching her kids when you begrudge the fact that she's doing it as well in order to get daycare/food/a bit of cash/keep a roof over their heads...etc. And that goes for anyone who accepts state clients and then gets ticked off at how they live their lives...if you don't like it, then don't support them by taking the state's money. Period, end of discussion.

I'm not sure what happened to this thread, but based upon the original post, it appeared to be inviting people on state assistance to tell their stories about what would happen to them if daycare assistance went away in the state of MN--in another spot, but still, they came HERE to tell their stories, and they're being attacked for it. Some of you have some really, REALLY good advice about developing a mindset of relying on oneself and only using assistance for what it's there for--temporary help. You impart some words of wisdom about thinking before popping out babies. But the way you deliver your message makes it almost impossible for the people to whom you deliver it to receive it well.

Maybe we can go back to the original topic at hand?
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GretasLittleFriends 08:20 PM 07-06-2011
Originally Posted by GretasLittleFriends:
I got the following forwarded to me by my licensor. I figured I would share it here since we have quite a few MN providers here.

Subject: Gov't Shutdown-Child Care Impacts-Story Needed

In preparation for a possible Minnesota state government shutdown, the Minnesota Department of Human Services has contacted families and providers using the Child Care Assistance Program with information about services and payments during a shutdown period. We have posted this information on our website at http://bit.ly/jifqyb.

If you are a parent or child care provider who will be affected by a government shutdown, please contact Chris at cbreva@childcareworks.org TODAY (Tuesday) to let Child Care WORKS know what the impact will be on your children, family or child care program. We are collecting stories to include in an affidavit we have been asked to submit to the court currently responding to petitions by Governor Dayton and Attorney General Swanson regarding what services should be maintained during a government shutdown.

Your stories help illustrate potential impacts on the health and safety of Minnesota children should the government shut down on July 1; please be as specific as possible and include your name and email/phone number where we can reach you with any questions. The affidavit is due Wednesday morning, so please send your story to cbreva@childcareworks.org today by 4 p.m.

Thank you. We appreciate this extra effort today to communicate that child care is an essential service to Minnesota children and families!
Originally Posted by PeanutsGalore:
You know something? If you don't like the way your client lives her life, then get rid of her. It's rather hypocritical of you to take money from the state for watching her kids when you begrudge the fact that she's doing it as well in order to get daycare/food/a bit of cash/keep a roof over their heads...etc. And that goes for anyone who accepts state clients and then gets ticked off at how they live their lives...if you don't like it, then don't support them by taking the state's money. Period, end of discussion.

I'm not sure what happened to this thread, but based upon the original post, it appeared to be inviting people on state assistance to tell their stories about what would happen to them if daycare assistance went away in the state of MN--in another spot, but still, they came HERE to tell their stories, and they're being attacked for it. Some of you have some really, REALLY good advice about developing a mindset of relying on oneself and only using assistance for what it's there for--temporary help. You impart some words of wisdom about thinking before popping out babies. But the way you deliver your message makes it almost impossible for the people to whom you deliver it to receive it well.

Maybe we can go back to the original topic at hand?
As the original poster, the reason I started this thread was to inform my fellow providers from Minnesota a way to perhaps have some sway in not losing income.

I have MANY opinions about the public help systems. There, no doubt, are some flaws that should be addressed. From what I understand so many of the public assistance workers are over worked/loaded with cases.

At one point, since I received my license in March 2008, I only had one family who paid out of pocket for everything and didn't use assistance for anything. This was a mother who lived with her boyfriend (child's father). She went to school, days, a few times a week and worked evenings. Her significant other works construction and is often gone away from home. I don't know how they made things work, no doubt they struggled. She didn't qualify for tuition assistance or financial aid because of a problem with her adoption papers. She was adopted from out of country when she was young. She still went to school, paid out of pocket, paid me full wage, etc. She saw what she wanted and found a way to make it happen.

Had the shut-down happened back then I would have been TOTALLY screwed, as I was just starting out, no reputation (good or bad), and 80% of my income was from the state. My husband and I would have struggled, but found a way somehow.

Now, it's another story. I only have one family on assistance. DCM and I have worked out a payment plan for during the shutdown, and it really isn't affecting me.
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Unregistered 11:31 PM 07-06-2011
In many cities, sharing housing with non family members is a violation of zoning. In many states, childcare assistance is available only for hours worked - either at a paying job or in required community service. Most cities (and many rural areas) have no available public or low income housing. A working mom who loses childcare assistance and who only receives this benefit DOES become eligible for benefits she has paid to provide for everyone in need. Of course she should access them. There is a reason these services are called a safety net. The loss of income from work causes exactly the kind of stress and instability that puts children as all sorts of risk.

Of all virtues I would want my childcare provider to exemplify, respect for persons through charity and kindness is most important. If you, for whatever reason, cannot respect your clients, you should not expose their children to this feeling about the adults they love by keeping them in your care.

The attacks in this forum are based in a naive and careless attitude based on a non existent stereotype.
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Unregistered 12:00 AM 07-07-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Are you saying you are providing their medical NOW?

Are you receiving child support from their father? If not, is he being prosecuted for that?

Two kids in day care is a HUGE cash subsidy to parents. In the end, it would be cheaper for the tax payers to give you food stamps, medical for your kids, and rent assistance.

It's time to do what my auntie did when she was a young mother. She took care of her friends kids while they worked and they took care of her kids while she worked. They did it for YEARS.

Have you looked into sharing child care between you and another family?

There was a day not so long ago when the idea of paying for day care wasn't even in the mind of the American people. They made it work between each other. They worked opposite shifts and cared for kids when they weren't at work.

Have you thought about moving in with another young family and living really small and sharing child care and expenses?

There are ways to do this but it won't net you a place to live on your own and free time when you are off of your job. When taxpayers are paying for child care THAT'S what they are paying for you. They are paying for the free time you have off after work and your ability to live as a single household.... NOT for the care of the kids. The free care of the kids nets these.

Your response is "do the taxpayers want to have to pay for *** for me instead". My response is: That's not the alternative you should be looking at. You think you are owed that as an alternative. How about the alternative is that YOU make it all happen?

Could the alternative be: Share your home with another family... another young mother or mother and father who have to work to support their kid. YOU share a bedroom with your two kids and give up their bedrooms to a family who can come in and share the rent and the child care work. You live in a small teeny tiny space with your kids and they do too. When one of you goes to work the other cares for ALL the kids. When you cook you cook for EVERYONE and share the advantage of low cost home cooked meals made in bulk. Combine resources so that you don't have to ask for anything. Show us what you are made of instead of showing us what you are saving us.

Live small.... be willing to work while you are not at work. Gather together as a community of friends and family and make it work.

Go old school.... do what our foremothers did... that's complete self reliance. Never stop after the Dad of the kids to do his share in money and CARE of the kids.

Stop telling the taxpayers it could be worse.... take all the "free" out of your head and see if YOU can make it happen on your own. Free child/near free care is not a right. It's a huge luxury that buys you the ability to live as a single family and not have to work on your off times from your job.
Hi! Amy again.

1st - yes, I do provide medical for my family now. The *only* assistance my family receives is CCAP - and I have a $200 copay.

2nd - MN law regulates the apartment size a family (or other group of people) can rent. By law, I am not even allowed to rent a 1 bedroom apartment, because I have two children who are not the same gender that I am. Your suggested lifestyle is illegal by MN rental standards.

3rd - Why do you assume I have leisure time after work? I work a 40 hour week, am a full-time student (which I pay for with a combination of tuition reimbursement from my employer and student loans), and I volunteer one evening every night. I also spend two evenings each week taking my children to their sporting events, which I also volunteer with in order to help with the cost of their participation. That accounts for... ohhh... 5 nights a week. Sounds like I'm a real slacker, eh? Darn those 'welfare' recipients and their desire to work and provide for their families! How DARE they! lol.

You can approve of my lifestyle or not - but obviously, I'm not going to give up my job because someone on the internet disagreed with me. And actually, no, me being on welfare, food stamps, medical assistance, etc... would be a MUCH greater cost to the taxpayers than just CCAP. CCAP costs the taxpayers approximately $1,000 per month for my family. If I were to be on MFIP (Minnesota's TANF program), I would receive cash in the amount of $530, food stamps in the amount of $550, medical assistance (which costs hundreds per month, unsure of the actual figure), PLUS child care, because MN welfare programs REQUIRE recipients to be actively searching for work 35+ hours per week, and they REQUIRE you to place your child(ren) in child care in order to be at their job search classes at 8am, search for work all day, and report back to the Workforce center again at 4:00. If you add that all up... Child Care would cost $1,200 (remember, I'm unemployed now, and don't have a copay), plus $530, plus $550, plus $600 (a low estimate for medical assistance coverage for family). Oh, and let's not forget housing assistance, which would be about $750. Being on welfare... total cost of... $3,630 per month. Being a productive citizen with a job... $1,000. Let's also not forget that when I am working, I pay taxes, plus my employer pays taxes on my behalf, PLUS I contribute to the economy. Also - during the school year, the state pays NOTHING for CCAP on my family's behalf, because my copay covers the cost of before and after school care.

So taxpayer annual cost of my family on welfare (3630*12) is $43,560

And taxpayer annual cost of me working (1000*3) is $3,000 (minus taxes I pay, which are about $600 federal and $300 state. I also pay approximately $120 per month in FICA), for an annual net taxpayer cost of approximately $660. Yes. Six hundred and sixty dollars.

Do you follow?

You're so right. I should totally quit my job and be on welfare. That's a great idea!

Then I can also drop out of college (even though I graduate in less than a year) while I'm at it. Then I can default on my student loans because I don't have a job, and the taxpayers can cover that for me, too.

I can stay at home with my children, and then when they're at school during the school year, I can sit on my behind at home and eat ice cream and watch soap operas!

Do you understand the benefit to taxpayers for people like me to work and use CCAP? It benefits my family because we have a greater quality of life. It benefits the taxpayers because the net annual taxpayer cost for my family is $660, which is a much greater savings than over $43,000.

Anyways - the point is that without CCAP, I could lose my job, and I could end up needing all of those state programs, which is detrimental to ALL of us.
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nannyde 08:06 AM 07-07-2011
2nd - MN law regulates the apartment size a family (or other group of people) can rent. By law, I am not even allowed to rent a 1 bedroom apartment, because I have two children who are not the same gender that I am. Your suggested lifestyle is illegal by MN rental standards.

Could you please show me that law? You pay full rent at market rate??? You are not a a person is living in an apartment where part or all of their rent is covered by Section 8 or HUD?
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Country Kids 08:27 AM 07-07-2011
We have a law like that here also. I think though it is only if you are receiving assistance or have foster children. You can only have two children, same gender per room except for the parents.
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jen 10:18 AM 07-07-2011
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
We have a law like that here also. I think though it is only if you are receiving assistance or have foster children. You can only have two children, same gender per room except for the parents.
I am in MN and I'm pretty sure that the law applies to those on Sect 8 or foster care as well...

That said, I don't think Amy needs to justify her lifestyle to anyone.

Supporting people (at least in part) while they get an education is good for EVERYONE. People who graduate from college make significantly more (statistically speaking) then those with no post high school education.

Higher incomes equal mean higher tax base, equals increased home values, equals better public education...

I understand what Nan is saying, it's just a bit simplistic; real life economics are far more complex.
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nannyde 10:36 AM 07-07-2011
Originally Posted by jen:
I understand what Nan is saying, it's just a bit simplistic; real life economics are far more complex.
Oh it's simple all right.

My sister and her husband are facing 20K in college tuition, books, living etc. for their 18 year old. I'm sure they would appreciate 15K a year in cash assistance so she can get the: Higher incomes equal mean higher tax base, equals increased home values, equals better public education...

I get it...

Believe me I get it.

Why not my neice? Why Amy?
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jen 10:56 AM 07-07-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Oh it's simple all right.

My sister and her husband are facing 20K in college tuition, books, living etc. for their 18 year old. I'm sure they would appreciate 15K a year in cash assistance so she can get the: Higher incomes equal mean higher tax base, equals increased home values, equals better public education...

I get it...

Believe me I get it.

Why not my neice? Why Amy?
C'mon...you know the answer to that.

I'm facing the same situation regarding my 17 yo son as well...plus my husband is in grad school and I will be following behind in the fall.

If Amy qualifies for assistance that I don't or your neice doesn't, it's because we make more money than Amy does. I certainly don't begrudge her that! We are blessed that we are able to provide an education for ourselves and our children.

When we help Amy accomplish her educational goals, we aren't just helping Amy, we help Amy's children and her children's children. We break the cycle of poverty and create a stronger economic system for years to come.

My son, your neice, they are the details, the little picture. In order to make big improvements, we need to see the big picture. We need to work to end poverty, not trap people in it.
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nannyde 11:09 AM 07-07-2011
Originally Posted by jen:
C'mon...you know the answer to that.

I'm facing the same situation regarding my 17 yo son as well...plus my husband is in grad school and I will be following behind in the fall.

If Amy qualifies for assistance that I don't or your neice doesn't, it's because we make more money than Amy does. I certainly don't begrudge her that! We are blessed that we are able to provide an education for ourselves and our children.

When we help Amy accomplish her educational goals, we aren't just helping Amy, we help Amy's children and her children's children. We break the cycle of poverty and create a stronger economic system for years to come.

My son, your neice, they are the details, the little picture. In order to make big improvements, we need to see the big picture. We need to work to end poverty, not trap people in it.
No I don't get it.

My neice doesn't have kids so her assistance is based on her parents income.

Amy has kids so her assistance is based on her income.

How about we go off of Amy's parents income when it comes to funding her? How about we go off of the Dad's income AND Amy's income AND the grandparents income on both sides?

It's all about education and all... let's consider the parents of the children AND their parents before we start shucking out a bunch of cash money for the sake of the kids.
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Unregistered 11:21 AM 07-07-2011
She should get a job, move out, let her parents give up the right to claim her, and apply for performance based aid, grants and loans like everyone else.

The child tax credit plus the education tax credit will almost equal the tuition paid including cost of attendance (housing, books, etc.). My dad, who divorced my mom and did NOT support me, tried every year to take this.

Saying that - my parents, and most of the parents of my colleges mates got no help from parents.

I paid house payments to save my mother's home on several occasions - with student loans!

When it comes down to it, Nanny, are you really jealous of a single mom who has to access assistance?
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Unregistered 11:26 AM 07-07-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
2nd - MN law regulates the apartment size a family (or other group of people) can rent. By law, I am not even allowed to rent a 1 bedroom apartment, because I have two children who are not the same gender that I am. Your suggested lifestyle is illegal by MN rental standards.

Could you please show me that law? You pay full rent at market rate??? You are not a a person is living in an apartment where part or all of their rent is covered by Section 8 or HUD?
I will find Mn statute later tonight, but, YES. I PAY MY OWN RENT. Have you read anything I've written? The ONLY assistance we get is ccap. I PAY WITH MY EARNED WAGES for everything else. Is it so hats for you to believe that someone who receives ccap isn't on every warfare program ever created? Ccap males it possible for me to provided for my family. That's why it's important. Get it?
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jen 11:26 AM 07-07-2011
Nan, if it were up to me everyone who wanted to go to college or technical school would be able to attend a public post secondary school for free or next to it.
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Unregistered 11:35 AM 07-07-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:

How about we go off of Amy's parents income when it comes to funding her? How about we go off of the Dad's income AND Amy's income AND the grandparents income on both sides?

It's all about education and all... let's consider the parents of the children AND their parents before we start shucking out a bunch of cash money for the sake of the kids.
Why not? Because my parents abandoned me when I was 14. Can you find my child molesting father and tell him to pay? Cause I haven't seen him in over a decade.

I'm sorry that you begrudge the $600 annually that taxpayers spend on caring for my children, but that's your problem. You are angry because you feel that someone you know is more deserving than me. Get over it. If your niece was on assistance, would you be treating her like you treat me? No.

Again, I don't recieve cash assistance. Maybe you should attempt to read what I wrote before you respond to me again.
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Unregistered 11:52 AM 07-07-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Then how come I have a dcm in care who has a 9 year old and a 4 year old and has found neither father for her children and yet continues to recieve child care assistance. She has had several men tested for each child and not yet come up with biological father(s). She works on and off and yet has continually received FULL COVERAGE for her child care costs since her 10 year old was first enrolled at 6 weeks old. She pays a $2 co-pay on a bi-weekly basis. She receives 70 hours of care for her children bi-weekly also.

So not once but twice she has made poor choices and besides her children, the taxpayers are the only ones who bear the burden for those choices.

Signed,

NOT FAIR AND SICK OF IT!!!
I SAID YOU HAVE TO COOPERATE AND WORK WITH THE STATE TO FIND THE FATHER TEST FOR PATERNITY AND THEN FORCE THEM TO PAY CHILD SUPPORT. Nobody said that was going to be easy if you make poor life choices. One case you know of doesn't mean jack. Everyone knows someone using the system and for those who pay in thousands in taxes each year yes it is frustrating HOWEVER this thread started out with info for MN providers who were affected by the shut down.

If you don't like the system then don't accept CCA clients. PERIOD. I accept assistance clients and do not judge others based on their choices. I am affected by the shutdown and have lost 75% of my income. I don't do daycare for a hobby, I do it to pay my bills and while most of my income is gone I still have to do that.

If you want to whine about your family not getting their "fair" share b/c of other people and the system I suggest the off topic section for registered people.
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Crystal 12:14 PM 07-07-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
No I don't get it.

My neice doesn't have kids so her assistance is based on her parents income.

Amy has kids so her assistance is based on her income.

How about we go off of Amy's parents income when it comes to funding her? How about we go off of the Dad's income AND Amy's income AND the grandparents income on both sides?

It's all about education and all... let's consider the parents of the children AND their parents before we start shucking out a bunch of cash money for the sake of the kids.
All children, up to age 24, are required to use their parents income to qualify for student aid. Amy may be older, and yes, her student LOANS, that she will repay, are based on her family size and income. I am going through this now, my daughter goes to UCSC in the fall and we have to use our income for her loans and grants and will have to until she is 24, UNLESS she can prove that she was an emancipated minor.
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nannyde 12:44 PM 07-07-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I will find Mn statute later tonight, but, YES. I PAY MY OWN RENT. Have you read anything I've written? The ONLY assistance we get is ccap. I PAY WITH MY EARNED WAGES for everything else. Is it so hats for you to believe that someone who receives ccap isn't on every warfare program ever created? Ccap males it possible for me to provided for my family. That's why it's important. Get it?
I will find Mn statute later tonight,

Okay I'll check for your response tonight.
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Sugar Magnolia 12:45 PM 07-07-2011
This has been an intense thread. I think this debate reflects the overall mood in the country right now. There are likely no millionaires on this forum, so its just us working folks making these arguments for and against public assistance. NOBODY likes the idea of welfare 'cheats', there's not a sane person would advocate for wasting tax dollars. We as providers have all seen people who needed and deserved assistance, and we've seen the cheats. Amy, I support what you are doing and I think you're one of those that appreciates the assistance and doesn't take it for granted. Nannyde and others, I think no one would disagree that the "cheats" are abhorrent and they should get off their lazy butts and contribute to society and WORK to support their families. WE ALL WORK HARD, SO SHOULD THEY!!!! The original poster wanted to communicate to us all that the state of MN was needing feedback about how the shut-down was affecting parents and providers. I guess I stirred this whole pot by expressing my outrage over the politics involved there. I stick by my original thought, that its a shame that children, the elderly, the handicapped and the sick are the FIRST ones who suffer from budget cuts. I didn't mean to start the whole "welfare" debate. I just HATE to see providers who count on state funding to suffer, and HATE to see people that work hard and struggle to provide for their kids suffer. That's all. Yes, BOOOO to welfare cheats (criminals, really) and the ones who don't appreciate or abuse their assistance. And BOOOO to states that play games with the budgets to score political points at the expense of the needy. But YAY to working moms like Amy who are trying to do the right thing and need a temporary hand-up. I think we can all agree that we often disagree, and that's the beauty of the USA. Who is with me here?
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nannyde 12:55 PM 07-07-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
When it comes down to it, Nanny, are you really jealous of a single mom who has to access assistance?
Jealous?

I'm saying we can't afford it. It's a luxury that's just too expensive to foot right now. IMHO the entire thing needs to be scrapped.
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Crystal 02:11 PM 07-07-2011
This is sad.

Just because a family recieves child care subsidy doesn't mean they are low-life welfare people that are just sitting around collecting a check....and even if they are getting welfare, in addition to their child care subsidy, they are also either working (and making to little to survive without assistance) or are going to school so that they can better themselves and provide for their children. Sure, there are those out there that will fraudulently, or lazily, collect from the system, but I hardly think that the vast majority of families recieveing a child care subsidy are raking in the dough.

In my 14 years as a provider, I have had a few single Moms who recieved a state subsidy. One family was with me for 11 years, and for 7 of them she recieved the child care subsidy. BUT, she also went to work every day, took EXCELLENT care of her children, spent LOTS of quality time with them, and she has worked hard to rise above her circumstances and is now very successful. I was with her every step of the way, cheering her on.....without that subsidy she would have had to stay home and collect welfare....without that subsidy she would not have worked her way up to where she is now, grossing six figures and paying back ALL those tax payer dollars. I have had simliar experiences with my other state paid clients, and I like to think that my non-judgemental, accepting and caring attitude helped them get where they are today.....I do know that each and every on of them appreciated having me in their's and their children's lives.....

So, I hope that those of you who are recieving the child care subsidy don't lose it. I I hope that all of the providers out there who have state paid clients don't lose them either.
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jen 03:18 PM 07-07-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
This is sad.

Just because a family recieves child care subsidy doesn't mean they are low-life welfare people that are just sitting around collecting a check....and even if they are getting welfare, in addition to their child care subsidy, they are also either working (and making to little to survive without assistance) or are going to school so that they can better themselves and provide for their children. Sure, there are those out there that will fraudulently, or lazily, collect from the system, but I hardly think that the vast majority of families recieveing a child care subsidy are raking in the dough.

In my 14 years as a provider, I have had a few single Moms who recieved a state subsidy. One family was with me for 11 years, and for 7 of them she recieved the child care subsidy. BUT, she also went to work every day, took EXCELLENT care of her children, spent LOTS of quality time with them, and she has worked hard to rise above her circumstances and is now very successful. I was with her every step of the way, cheering her on.....without that subsidy she would have had to stay home and collect welfare....without that subsidy she would not have worked her way up to where she is now, grossing six figures and paying back ALL those tax payer dollars. I have had simliar experiences with my other state paid clients, and I like to think that my non-judgemental, accepting and caring attitude helped them get where they are today.....I do know that each and every on of them appreciated having me in their's and their children's lives.....

So, I hope that those of you who are recieving the child care subsidy don't lose it. I I hope that all of the providers out there who have state paid clients don't lose them either.
That right there!

And, I have no doubt that she will teach her children the value of hard work and education and her kids will make postive contributions as well! Whoot whoo!! I do love it when the system works the way its supposed to!
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Unregistered 06:48 PM 07-07-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Jealous?

I'm saying we can't afford it. It's a luxury that's just too expensive to foot right now. IMHO the entire thing needs to be scrapped.
Ha ha ha!

Yeah. Let's scrap all types of welfare and assistance to the working poor. The poor people can just suck it up and die, because if they don't have money, they don't deserve to live.

I pray to God that you don't accept CCAP children in your daycare, because if you do, I'm certain that they sense the animosity that you feel towards their very existence.

I'm done discussing anything with you, as you obviously have made up your judgmental mind about something you're unwilling to educate yourself about. There's no point in any continued conversation, because your mind is closed and you refuse to even read the sentences that are right in front of your face.
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nannyde 07:10 PM 07-07-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
This is sad.

Just because a family recieves child care subsidy doesn't mean they are low-life welfare people that are just sitting around collecting a check....and even if they are getting welfare, in addition to their child care subsidy, they are also either working (and making to little to survive without assistance) or are going to school so that they can better themselves and provide for their children. Sure, there are those out there that will fraudulently, or lazily, collect from the system, but I hardly think that the vast majority of families recieveing a child care subsidy are raking in the dough.

In my 14 years as a provider, I have had a few single Moms who recieved a state subsidy. One family was with me for 11 years, and for 7 of them she recieved the child care subsidy. BUT, she also went to work every day, took EXCELLENT care of her children, spent LOTS of quality time with them, and she has worked hard to rise above her circumstances and is now very successful. I was with her every step of the way, cheering her on.....without that subsidy she would have had to stay home and collect welfare....without that subsidy she would not have worked her way up to where she is now, grossing six figures and paying back ALL those tax payer dollars. I have had simliar experiences with my other state paid clients, and I like to think that my non-judgemental, accepting and caring attitude helped them get where they are today.....I do know that each and every on of them appreciated having me in their's and their children's lives.....

So, I hope that those of you who are recieving the child care subsidy don't lose it. I I hope that all of the providers out there who have state paid clients don't lose them either.
Nobody said people receiving assistance made a person a low life. You made that up.

There is a tremendous amount of fraud and undo entitlement to child care assistance. It needs to be RESEARCHED independently to see if the use of the assistance actually improves the financial well being of a family and the parents ability to "repay" the system in their increased earnings because of the assistance.

I have a cousin who has a daughter who has two kids. She had the first one at fifteen. The second one at 21. She is 26 now.

She has used the free child care assistance for the first child for eleven years. She has used the free assistance for the second one for five years. In Iowa you are allowed to "choose" between home care and center care. The difference in rates is about thirty three percent. This Mom choose Center and has been at the same center for all eleven years.

The State paid for her GED.
The State paid for her cosmetology school.
She worked as a hairdresser for about four years but quit because she didn't like it. She took an entry level job for nine bucks an hour and continued to get the free child care for the two kids.
She gets free health insurance for both kids.
She gets food stamps to the tune of 500 a month
She gets to live in my neighborhood in a three bedroom duplex that is about a thousand square foot. Her rent is free.
She is now going BACK for another round of state paid college so she can better herself.
She gets free college
She gets free books
She gets gas mileage back and forth to school.
Her oldest gets free breakfast and lunch at school.
She had WIC for both kids for five years
Now that she's back in free colleget SHE gets free health insurance.

Her day care bill so far is $124,800
Her free breakfast and lunch for the oldest is: 4000
Her free rent at 825 per month is 79,000 just for the past eight years she has been in this duplex
Her food stamps for the last eight years: 38,000
Her WIC was 8000
Her GED classes and exam: 1000
Her first cosmetology school and exam: 2000
Her current college just this last year: 12000

That's $269,700 NOT counting health insurance.

This family of three has cost the State and Federal government over a quarter of a million dollars NOT counting health insurance.

This Febuary she received an $8,000 dollar tax refund.

I asked her in May what she was going to do with all that money and she said "Oh it's gone... I had a tummy tuck".
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Michael 08:53 PM 07-07-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
This Febuary she received an $8,000 dollar tax refund.

I asked her in May what she was going to do with all that money and she said "Oh it's gone... I had a tummy tuck".
I had to laugh at this. Both of you are right. There are those that truely need and DESERVE assistence but their are a lot that milk the system. We can't keep pouring money down the drain. Its a tough job for those that have to filter through the wasteful abusers.
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Unregistered 09:00 PM 07-07-2011
I am going to take a pretty neutral stance here, and I agree this forum is off topic, and unreasonably heated.

Nanny - If your cousin comes from a family who can support her, there is no reason for the taxpayers to do it. You are part of her family.

Many people do not have the Luxury of a family to help with childcare, pay for college, or take them in when they lose a job.

Most of America lives one paycheck from a serious crisis.

The last thirty years of our economy have seen a major shift in wealth from the many to a few. Yes, our entitlement programs nearly equal our tax base, but we do not tax the true wealth in this economy, the corporations or the highest paid employees. We tax the upper middle class. We spend a lot of money in foreign aid. We spend a lot of money on wars. We spend a lot of money putting kids in daycare when we could simply provide for housing, living expenses and public education options. Many countries have a higher quality of life than ours. One of the best measures of this is care for children.

I don't live in MN, but i think the attitudes here are pretty common nationally.

The end result is that the few children of the few rich are in luxurious situations. The mothers of these children have access to good health care, including family planning. They have lowered risk of divorce because they have fewer financial risks. Poverty is a huge indicator of divorce. This is the first recession in which women have continued to lose ground while men return to work. The concept of women's work is changing.

The problems are complicated. The issue of childcare reimbursement is a small note in the cacophony. I am pretty sure I believe that childcare for women who do not need to work or finish school to work is a luxury. I do not believe that childcare assistance that allows a woman to work or finish school so that she can provide for her children is a luxury.

I also do not believe than any one of us would want to be in a situation to qualify for the types of aid we are discussing in this forum, and that if any of us knew a way to help raise the incomes of these folks to something above poverty we would take those steps.

The creation of jobs at a living wage is a good one. Is anyone here working at that level?

This is 2011. ERA went down when I was a little girl.

Take a moment, and imagine you were one day, lifted from your situation, and had to provide for one child with your own ability, no cash or savings, no family to back you, and ask yourself where you would start? Where would you be in six months? A year?

I have seen kids at work with their moms. It always made me sad.
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laurasophia 06:35 AM 07-09-2011
I am FLABBERGASTED at the content of the posts here!! The comments about families receiving assistance make me sick!! I would NEVER allow such judgmental hypocritical holier-than-thou people watch anyone I loved and cared about!!!!

nannyde: "I have a cousin who has a daughter who....blah blah blah!!" You sure know a LOT about someone who has WHAT to do with your life? Your personal resentment of this individual SCREAMS OUT with your comments! You actually sat and did math on her? Where did you get your figures? Run for Congress...you'll fit right in!!

DAMN you people are judgmental!!!! I can NOT get over the self-righteous comments on this forum!!!! And you people are watching our children day in and day out?! God help us all!!!!
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dEHmom 09:04 AM 07-09-2011
Where I live, if you are in Housing, doesn't matter age/sex each kid has to have their own bedroom. If you are a single mom with 2 kids, you HAVE TO have a 3 Bedroom apartment. No way around it.
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nannyde 09:14 AM 07-09-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Nanny - If your cousin comes from a family who can support her, there is no reason for the taxpayers to do it. You are part of her family.
No I am not a good option. I don't offer ten hour days 52 weeks a year. I offer nine hour days ONLY when you are working and I have 12 working days off a year.

Even if I offered free it wouldn't compare to the free extra hour a day (250 hours per year) and the free twelve non holiday days I am closed. It's the difference of an additional 370 hours per year. If you look at it as a forty hour work week you can see it's more than nine additional free weeks of day care per year.

My free wouldn't come close to the free she gets.
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nannyde 10:33 AM 07-09-2011
Originally Posted by laurasophia:
nannyde: "I have a cousin who has a daughter who....blah blah blah!!" You sure know a LOT about someone who has WHAT to do with your life? Your personal resentment of this individual SCREAMS OUT with your comments! You actually sat and did math on her? Where did you get your figures? Run for Congress...you'll fit right in!!
It's not resentment. It's sadness. It's living long enough on this planet to know it can't go on. We can't afford it.

Yes I did the math. I'm known around here for figuring out the money. It's what I do. I'm in the end of my seventeenth year of home child care. I know year to year the cash value of child related services. If you think I have it wrong on any of them feel free to correct me.

Over a quarter of million dollars for three people in eleven years. That's a chunk o change and there is NO end in sight.

Run for congress?

Yeah that would be my fourth job. I'll see if I can fit that in. I wonder if daycare.com would fund my campaign? We could sell t-shirts that say
"It's about the money"
"go play toys"
and "If it doesn't fit .... you must acquit".

Oh wait that one is already taken.
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dEHmom 11:11 AM 07-09-2011
while the thread has gone off on a bit of a tangent, the truth still lies that there wouldn't be such a hardship on many with the economy the way it is, IF there wasn't so much abuse.

They need to start at the root of the problem.....stop handing money over to anyone who wants it. It should only be the ones who NEED it.

For middle class people (and that is such a broad range of the majority of people in the world), there is no one to help us. NO help. We are stuck to do it on our own.

Every year my dh makes more money, maybe only 50 cents or a few dollars more each year, but every year his take home salary (after taxes) is less and less. We find it harder and harder to put food on our table. But there is no help for us. We can barely manage food on our table, and every time we get a little extra cash for working overtime, or selling something, or whatever it might be, SOMETHING always claims it. Like a vehicle repair, home repair, or something else. It always balances out. But we can never get ahead. I couldn't even afford daycare for 1 child.

IF the government would figure out a way to weed out potential abusers before they get on the system, or those who find a way to stay on the system for years at a time, then we would ALL be in a better position. The ones who need help would receive the help, and probably benefit from it alot more. They would be able to get off the system faster.

I wasn't in anyway referring on my previous posts to those who need child care subsidy, I was referring to those who receive assistance in terms of everything else, housing, food, etc.

There are people who NEED this help, and are sitting there waiting for their turn. People who NEED a roof over their heads, and a place to call home, who are waiting for a place, even if it was only a 1 bedroom for a family of 5. It's probably better than wherever they are now.

There are people with family who can help out, if there is truly a need. When my SisIL had a baby, and things happened where she could no longer live where she was (they had a home and everything), baby was 5 days old. She and baby came and lived with us. But we set ground rules before she walked in, and we enforced them to a T. She was not allowed to go and buy herself clothes, baby unneccessary things, dye her hair, or anything like that. She was to save her money for a deposit should she find an open apartment. We supported her and baby, we didn't ask her to buy any groceries etc, because we wanted her to SAVE. We went into a lot of debt to help her and baby. And in 6 months she had enough to move out on her own. Support baby on her own. 6 MONTHS! Sure we could've called housing and said she can't live here anymore, she has till the end of the month, and they would've found her a place much faster. But we weren't about to cheat the system. She had a place, even if it was just our living room. She had help. Neither my FIL or my MIL helped out one bit. Even though it was their child, they both had extra rooms in the homes, we did it. 25 yo's with 3 kids of our own to support, and we did it.

There is a way when there is a will. And sometimes that way is asking for help, and receiving help, whether it's funded by the government, or a helping hand from a family member. Everyones situation is different. I am blessed to have such a large family, and there will always be someone to help if we needed it. Many people don't have anyone to help. And those are the people who deserve to receive help from the government. Not the people who continue to reproduce just so they can stay on the system. Not the ones who use the money to fund trips, drugs, alcohol, shopping sprees, or whatever else they do with it.
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Tags:austerity, bad economy, budget cuts, entitlement, irresponsible parents, issue resolved, minnesota, subsidy
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