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  #1  
Old 05-23-2017, 10:26 AM
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Default Developing Policy on Early Childhood Suspension and Expulsion

"Limiting access to high-quality early education widens the achievement gap at school entry. Expelling children from preschool creates a missed opportunity to address young children’s socio-emotional and cognitive needs prior to school entry. “Preschool behavior problems are the single best predictor of adolescent delinquency and adult imprisonment. Expulsion from preschool leaves young children without access to education and early intervention, and families without support to address children’s behavior challenges. In the absence of these supports, “children are most likely to develop chronic behavior problems, contributing to school failure, peer rejection, substance abuse, truancy, incarceration, unemployment, divorce, psychiatric illness, and early death in adolescence and adulthood” resulting in more costly and long-term interventions.v Therefore, crafting and implementing policies and practices to support administrators, teachers and parents in addressing behavioral and cognitive challenges can help to prevent expulsion and reduce instances of suspension to only when in the best interests of the child."

"This brief includes resources to inform early childhood stakeholders at the state and local level interested in developing policy and guidance for programs to prevent and reduce suspension and expulsion." - https://www.zerotothree.org/resource...-and-expulsion

1. Establishing preventive, disciplinary, suspension, and expulsion policies and administering those policies free of bias and discrimination;
2. Setting goals and using data to monitor progress in preventing, severely limiting, and ultimately eliminating expulsion and suspension practices in early childhood settings; and
3. Implementing early childhood workforce competencies and evidence-based interventions and approaches that prevent expulsion, suspension, and other exclusionary discipline practices, including early childhood mental health consultation and positive behavior intervention and support strategies.

Should we no longer be able to term based on what is best for the group, safety, our own financial security or legal liability? Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 05-23-2017, 11:21 AM
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That seems like in an ideal world...

The children I have terminated from my preschool have had parents who do not work to eliminate the behaviors (usually the child is needing to see a psychiatrist or some other professional - seriously). It's a "kids will be kids" attitude or a "what happens at preschool stays at preschool" attitude. The parents might express disapproval but the child still goes and gets ice cream after school. Or, they take it personally and do nothing at all. So...my only option, after going through all sorts of attempts to correct the issues, is to terminate for the wellbeing of the entire group. I won't apologize for that.

Those children enroll in other programs. Their families are not left without ANY program since I am not the ONLY program in the entire area. How dramatic.
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Old 05-23-2017, 11:29 AM
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Just more dribble about how ONE should be more important that ALL.

The first and most important teacher is the PARENT.

When the PARENT does their job, that gap closes significantly.

Let's start there.
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Old 05-23-2017, 11:33 AM
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When research shows time and time again that the best predictor of behavior is parental influance I am not sure we as educators are capable of affecting change. Most of us know that behavioral issues almost always stem from parental behaviors and making educators bear the brunt of reform for these kids is ridiculous and seldom works.

Not to mention most of us are overworked and underpaid as it stands. Want me to do more to help little johnny stay out of jail? Give me more $$. Until then I will do what I can to survive and keep the needs of the group at the forefront.
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Old 05-23-2017, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
"Limiting access to high-quality early education widens the achievement gap at school entry. Expelling children from preschool creates a missed opportunity to address young children’s socio-emotional and cognitive needs prior to school entry. “Preschool behavior problems are the single best predictor of adolescent delinquency and adult imprisonment. Expulsion from preschool leaves young children without access to education and early intervention, and families without support to address children’s behavior challenges. In the absence of these supports, “children are most likely to develop chronic behavior problems, contributing to school failure, peer rejection, substance abuse, truancy, incarceration, unemployment, divorce, psychiatric illness, and early death in adolescence and adulthood” resulting in more costly and long-term interventions.v Therefore, crafting and implementing policies and practices to support administrators, teachers and parents in addressing behavioral and cognitive challenges can help to prevent expulsion and reduce instances of suspension to only when in the best interests of the child."

"This brief includes resources to inform early childhood stakeholders at the state and local level interested in developing policy and guidance for programs to prevent and reduce suspension and expulsion." - https://www.zerotothree.org/resource...-and-expulsion

1. Establishing preventive, disciplinary, suspension, and expulsion policies and administering those policies free of bias and discrimination;
2. Setting goals and using data to monitor progress in preventing, severely limiting, and ultimately eliminating expulsion and suspension practices in early childhood settings; and
3. Implementing early childhood workforce competencies and evidence-based interventions and approaches that prevent expulsion, suspension, and other exclusionary discipline practices, including early childhood mental health consultation and positive behavior intervention and support strategies.

Should we no longer be able to term based on what is best for the group, safety, our own financial security or legal liability? Thoughts?
This is what I do not like (#2). I think that a majority of providers, both new and old, DO try to cover every base before terminating care. We see what we can do on our end, what changes can be made in the daily life of the child (naps, eating, consistency), ask the parents for cooperation and offer advice on what they can do at home, ect. But, when all else fails or if there is no cooperation from the parents, termination is in the best interest of all involved. It protects us, our other dc kids, our home. But it also puts the issue back on the parent and somewhat forces them to deal with it. They don't always and may hop over to the next dc, but history generally repeats itself if changes are not made, so it usually bites them in the bum.

I could never support the bolded part though (#2). There HAS to be consequences when no improvements are made and ultimately, we are private business owners. The amount of work and effort we want to put into a child should be our decision. It is great to give people tools, but eliminating the expulsion option is not the way to go. I know it is not the same, but I was reading the archives last night on the peanut allergy threads and it was a parent who knew about the allergy, but did not inform the dc provider, bc they knew they would have some form of protection under the ADA to be expelled at that point. It seemed like a move to force a provider to deal with something they were not capable of dealing with. I can see the similarities in the above. Forcing providers to work harder and potentially deal with aggressive/violent/abnormal behaviors for the sake of the child, when that is ultimately the responsibility of the parent. That is not okay, but even more, it is potentially dangerous for the provider and the other children in their care.
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Old 05-23-2017, 12:21 PM
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If parents would parent all of this would be easier. Maybe the state should step into that can of worms. Or would they like us to do that dirty work too?
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  #7  
Old 05-23-2017, 12:48 PM
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My fear is that this escalating pressure on child care providers to be *all things to everyone* is going to result in an upswing in providers committing child abuse.

We must be allowed to enforce our limits without fear of the collapse of modern civilization or the loss of our income. The expectations placed on us, for bargain basement income, harsh judgement and extended hours, is absurd.

If this pattern continues, it is only a matter of time before we see the uptick in abuse cases, mark my words.
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Old 05-23-2017, 01:18 PM
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Ummm where's the money to pay for this intervention. If they would provide the child care with the monies to pay for the education and staff needed to implement the behavior program that PROTECTS the staff and children.... then and only then... would this work.

Another example of do more ... pay more... and get zero compensation.

The message to parents is that the child can be violent, disrespectful, destroy property etc... and the daycare HAS to keep them.

My son is in high school which is very small. About 25 kids per grade. They just expelled a kid for the rest of the school for the rest of the year for threatening students, staff, and principal. He's in their "alternative" program which is staffed at a one to six. He still is vicious and puts others at risk.

The ADA specifically says that if the child is a threat to the safety of others they aren't protected. Why are daycares expected to tolerate dnager to staff, kids, and property when the ADA doesn't expect that.

Who else is being kicked out? What behavior, other than violence is causing kids to be kicked out?
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Old 05-23-2017, 01:22 PM
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All this while we can't go a week without articles about how expensive daycare is. Do parents want to pay for keeping violent children in care? That's very expensive and the parents collectively HAVE to bear the cost.

Quit bemoaning the cost of child care and then put forth policies and recommendations that are very very expensive.
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Old 05-23-2017, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
All this while we can't go a week without articles about how expensive daycare is. Do parents want to pay for keeping violent children in care? That's very expensive and the parents collectively HAVE to bear the cost.

Quit bemoaning the cost of child care and then put forth policies and recommendations that are very very expensive.
And do they even want them there at all? We (society) have normalized aggressive behavior, so the parent of the aggressive child thinks its a-ok and there is nothing wrong with their kid. For the parents of non aggressive children, it is NOT normal and NOT ok! They will pull their kids from these environments and providers will end up with groups of aggressive children. Talk about baby fight club! Ime, parents who take a vested interest in their child and actively work to change bad behaviors are more willing to pay for the extra care. It is the ones who dont think their child's violent behaviors are a "big deal" that wont put their money where their mouth is.
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Old 05-23-2017, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
Ummm where's the money to pay for this intervention. If they would provide the child care with the monies to pay for the education and staff needed to implement the behavior program that PROTECTS the staff and children.... then and only then... would this work.

Another example of do more ... pay more... and get zero compensation.

The message to parents is that the child can be violent, disrespectful, destroy property etc... and the daycare HAS to keep them.

My son is in high school which is very small. About 25 kids per grade. They just expelled a kid for the rest of the school for the rest of the year for threatening students, staff, and principal. He's in their "alternative" program which is staffed at a one to six. He still is vicious and puts others at risk.

The ADA specifically says that if the child is a threat to the safety of others they aren't protected. Why are daycares expected to tolerate dnager to staff, kids, and property when the ADA doesn't expect that.

Who else is being kicked out? What behavior, other than violence is causing kids to be kicked out?
The money is found in QRIS.

My state alone is funneling money like crazy into educating and training providers. ANY and ALL efforts to create a QUALITY program that focuses on preparing the child for school is rewarded.

Of course, what is really happening is a completely different story but as long as it looks good on paper or in theory, they'll just keep doling out the money.

Close Gaps by 5
http://closegapsby5.org/

The state is not only drinking the Kool-aide but they are paying for it too
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Old 05-23-2017, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist View Post
That seems like in an ideal world...

The children I have terminated from my preschool have had parents who do not work to eliminate the behaviors (usually the child is needing to see a psychiatrist or some other professional - seriously). It's a "kids will be kids" attitude or a "what happens at preschool stays at preschool" attitude. The parents might express disapproval but the child still goes and gets ice cream after school. Or, they take it personally and do nothing at all. So...my only option, after going through all sorts of attempts to correct the issues, is to terminate for the wellbeing of the entire group. I won't apologize for that.

Those children enroll in other programs. Their families are not left without ANY program since I am not the ONLY program in the entire area. How dramatic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Just more dribble about how ONE should be more important that ALL.

The first and most important teacher is the PARENT.

When the PARENT does their job, that gap closes significantly.

Let's start there.
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  #13  
Old 05-23-2017, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
Ummm where's the money to pay for this intervention. If they would provide the child care with the monies to pay for the education and staff needed to implement the behavior program that PROTECTS the staff and children.... then and only then... would this work.

Another example of do more ... pay more... and get zero compensation.

The message to parents is that the child can be violent, disrespectful, destroy property etc... and the daycare HAS to keep them.

My son is in high school which is very small. About 25 kids per grade. They just expelled a kid for the rest of the school for the rest of the year for threatening students, staff, and principal. He's in their "alternative" program which is staffed at a one to six. He still is vicious and puts others at risk.

The ADA specifically says that if the child is a threat to the safety of others they aren't protected. Why are daycares expected to tolerate dnager to staff, kids, and property when the ADA doesn't expect that.

Who else is being kicked out? What behavior, other than violence is causing kids to be kicked out?
Exactly. This idea might be ideal for a public preschool program where funds are available to provide one-on-one care to "problem" kids, but in a private daycare or preschool, an administrator or owner needs to do what works for them.
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Old 05-23-2017, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Leigh View Post
Exactly. This idea might be ideal for a public preschool program where funds are available to provide one-on-one care to "problem" kids, but in a private daycare or preschool, an administrator or owner needs to do what works for them.
...but the goal is universal preschool for all so it WOULD work in a public school system....which is where it seems the government wants the kids to be.

Child Care providers (family and private centers) are slowing being killed off/run off... I've been saying it for year now.
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Old 05-23-2017, 02:46 PM
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Further reading: https://www.zerotothree.org/document/908

"Who is most likely to be expelled?
 Four-year-olds are expelled at a rate about 50 percent greater than three-year-olds.
 Boys are expelled at a rate more than 4.5 times that of girls.
 African-American children are about twice as likely to be expelled as Latino and Caucasian children, and more than five times as likely to be expelled as Asian-American children.iv"

"For the first time, the federal Office of Civil Rights (OCR) collected data from all public schools nationally in 2011-2012, and released findings in the Civil Rights Data Collection, Data Snapshot: Early Childhood Education in a March 2014 report.ix This data indicated that “Black children make up 18% of preschool enrollment, but 48% of preschool children suspended more than once. Boys receive more than three out of four out-of-school preschool suspensions.” (Page 3) While preschool girls who are black are also more likely to experience “out-of-school” suspension, this data collection did not find that preschool children learning English or children with disabilities were any more likely to be suspended than other children.
This data has limitations in terms of interpreting the magnitude of the problem because it only surveyed school programs and many more preschool children are served in community based settings."

"In response to OCR data, and with growing concerns expressed by families, teachers and other stakeholders, in 2016 the US Departments of Education and Health and Human Services released a joint policy statement to raise awareness about expulsion, suspension, and other exclusionary discipline practices in early childhood settings, including issues of racial/national origin/ethnic and gender disparities and negative outcomes for children associated with expulsion and suspension in the early years, and provide the field with recommendations to limit suspension and expulsion in early childhood.xi"
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Old 05-23-2017, 02:55 PM
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Nobody's mentioned yet the unconscious biases that exist when it comes to suspension/expulsion. There's a growing awareness that race, gender, perceived culture/class, and other factors impact how much empathy school officials have when interpreting negative behavior. For instance, people have trouble gauging the age of folks of a different race, and white people tend to overestimate the age of black children. So even when a white administrator knows objectively that the black boy sitting in her office is the same age as the white boys in his class, she may unconsciously hold him to a developmentally inappropriate standard of behavior. (And how many of you've had a little girl who preens when she's caught acting out, clearly waiting for us to melt in the face of her cuteness? That's behavior that's gotten positive reinforcement.)

All that to say, this could be in part a ham-handed attempt to reduce the disparity in how children are excluded from preschool programs.

http://fortune.com/2016/09/28/how-ra...up-in-schools/
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Old 05-23-2017, 03:09 PM
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white people tend to overestimate the age of black children.
Can you link that study? I have never heard of that research before.
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Old 05-23-2017, 03:15 PM
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Oh, you totally did mention it! I was dealing with kids and didn't hit "post" until after you posted yours.

http://www.apa.org/news/press/releas...oys-older.aspx
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Old 05-23-2017, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Pestle View Post
Oh, you totally did mention it! I was dealing with kids and didn't hit "post" until after you posted yours.

http://www.apa.org/news/press/releas...oys-older.aspx
Happens all the time. No worries.

I read the article you linked. This stood out. "

White teachers, with lower expectations of black children, rated the severity of the behavior lower. Black teachers, who held black students to a higher standard, consistently rated their behavior as more severe."

How are those statements not also micro-aggression's? I don't know, none of this sits well. No matter where anyone sets the bar they are ridiculed and projected upon as to their reasoning.
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Old 05-23-2017, 03:41 PM
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Can you link that study? I have never heard of that research before.
Nevermind, Pestle, I found it. Off to read. Thanks for that.

http://www.apa.org/news/press/releas...oys-older.aspx

http://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/rel...p-a0035663.pdf

Tough topics, but I want to understand.
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Old 05-23-2017, 04:09 PM
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Sounds like parents aren't considered responsible anymore. Like as if it's just assumed that daycare/schools are raising children and parents aren't even considered to be accountable for children's behavior.
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Old 05-23-2017, 04:19 PM
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Sounds like parents aren't considered responsible anymore. Like as if it's just assumed that daycare/schools are raising children and parents aren't even considered to be accountable for children's behavior.
My understanding was that was the outcome from one of the original Head Start program studies that assumed lower income kids would have their early experiences (and therefore adult outcomes) leveled with their higher income peers that way. Now they link it to the ACES study, I think. https://www.cdc.gov/violencepreventi...udy/index.html

None seem to focus on parents responsibility, evaluation, progress or accountability, though. Anyone know of a study on that?
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Old 05-23-2017, 04:34 PM
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Cool find

"Triple P (Positive Parenting Program)
www.triplep-america.com
Triple P is a system of parenting and family support to address parents’ varied needs. There are five levels of intervention, ranging from media strategies to increase awareness and acceptance, to brief consultation on common developmental issues, to intensive approaches to address problems with parenting and child behavior. In addition to impacting CM outcomes, this program has
shown improvements in parenting behavior and child behavior problems."
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Old 05-23-2017, 04:47 PM
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Anyone caring for a child, whether it is in a professional setting or in a parental setting, should have required courses for caring for those children. I know it sounds outlandish but the way a child is raised has a HUGE impact on society, prison systems and victimization.

I currently have a 3 yr old with major impulse control issues. I am working with mom on it but so far after 3 weeks I have only seen small improvements. I actually said to my husband that this type of personality, if not nipped in the bud, will result in this kid going to prison. No one thinks behavior in a 3 yr old can impact how that child grows up and the choices they make. At least there are some parrallels being drawn here.
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Old 05-23-2017, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mommyneedsadayoff View Post
This is what I do not like (#2). I think that a majority of providers, both new and old, DO try to cover every base before terminating care. We see what we can do on our end, what changes can be made in the daily life of the child (naps, eating, consistency), ask the parents for cooperation and offer advice on what they can do at home, ect. But, when all else fails or if there is no cooperation from the parents, termination is in the best interest of all involved. It protects us, our other dc kids, our home. But it also puts the issue back on the parent and somewhat forces them to deal with it. They don't always and may hop over to the next dc, but history generally repeats itself if changes are not made, so it usually bites them in the bum.

I could never support the bolded part though (#2). There HAS to be consequences when no improvements are made and ultimately, we are private business owners. The amount of work and effort we want to put into a child should be our decision. It is great to give people tools, but eliminating the expulsion option is not the way to go. I know it is not the same, but I was reading the archives last night on the peanut allergy threads and it was a parent who knew about the allergy, but did not inform the dc provider, bc they knew they would have some form of protection under the ADA to be expelled at that point. It seemed like a move to force a provider to deal with something they were not capable of dealing with. I can see the similarities in the above. Forcing providers to work harder and potentially deal with aggressive/violent/abnormal behaviors for the sake of the child, when that is ultimately the responsibility of the parent. That is not okay, but even more, it is potentially dangerous for the provider and the other children in their care.
The Peanut allergy issue is exactly why I put into my policies the following in my Meals policy...

"I stick to a chemical free, organic diet due to my own health issues and because it's better for the children... I do not allow outside foods to be brought in unless a child has a special dietary need that can be verified in writing by a physician; That being said, I am gluten intolerant due to an autoimmune disease & I also care for Celiac children - I use a number of nut flours among other things for baking... I cannot guarantee to be a nut free home for this reason alone; the danger of cross contamination is something that cannot be avoided here."

Families are expected to read my entire website before contacting me thru the website (yes it is stated on the site)... essentially if they try & throw the allergy crap @ me, I remind them that there are at least 3 different policies about allergies on the site & they were told to read & agree to them before sending me their contact info; if you sign the contract agreeing to the policies in person, then you can't come back & bitch @ me because your child has a nut allergy and you didn't know I wouldn't do no peanut butter etc etc.
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Old 05-23-2017, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
The money is found in QRIS.

My state alone is funneling money like crazy into educating and training providers. ANY and ALL efforts to create a QUALITY program that focuses on preparing the child for school is rewarded.

Of course, what is really happening is a completely different story but as long as it looks good on paper or in theory, they'll just keep doling out the money.

Close Gaps by 5
http://closegapsby5.org/

The state is not only drinking the Kool-aide but they are paying for it too
My state has been there and done that....a small amount of funding there still for academic classwork but for the most part funding is diminishing. Fifteen years later they are down 3000 Family/Group providers. The goal this last fiscal year was to raise FCC providers by 5% Today we have 638 for the whole state that are licensed....I dare say there are triple this number of unlicensed providers legally/unlegally. We dropped providers, no gain at all! Until Assessment is GONE, providers will not go back to being licensed and will remain under the radar. Assessment is in the law here so it is not going anywhere!
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Old 05-23-2017, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
"Limiting access to high-quality early education widens the achievement gap at school entry. Expelling children from preschool creates a missed opportunity to address young children’s socio-emotional and cognitive needs prior to school entry. “Preschool behavior problems are the single best predictor of adolescent delinquency and adult imprisonment. Expulsion from preschool leaves young children without access to education and early intervention, and families without support to address children’s behavior challenges. In the absence of these supports, “children are most likely to develop chronic behavior problems, contributing to school failure, peer rejection, substance abuse, truancy, incarceration, unemployment, divorce, psychiatric illness, and early death in adolescence and adulthood” resulting in more costly and long-term interventions.v Therefore, crafting and implementing policies and practices to support administrators, teachers and parents in addressing behavioral and cognitive challenges can help to prevent expulsion and reduce instances of suspension to only when in the best interests of the child."

"This brief includes resources to inform early childhood stakeholders at the state and local level interested in developing policy and guidance for programs to prevent and reduce suspension and expulsion." - https://www.zerotothree.org/resource...-and-expulsion

1. Establishing preventive, disciplinary, suspension, and expulsion policies and administering those policies free of bias and discrimination;
2. Setting goals and using data to monitor progress in preventing, severely limiting, and ultimately eliminating expulsion and suspension practices in early childhood settings; and
3. Implementing early childhood workforce competencies and evidence-based interventions and approaches that prevent expulsion, suspension, and other exclusionary discipline practices, including early childhood mental health consultation and positive behavior intervention and support strategies.

Should we no longer be able to term based on what is best for the group, safety, our own financial security or legal liability? Thoughts?
Our new regs state we have to have an "expulsion policy" for licensing to approve which I did, but now I know why. I am sure your info is the reasoning behind it. My state likes being the first to jump on the bandwagons
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Old 05-23-2017, 05:35 PM
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https://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/...uspensions.pdf

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION POLICY STATEMENT ON EXPULSION AND SUSPENSION POLICIES IN EARLY CHILDHOOD SETTINGS

The above is the actual 17 page statement.

"These disturbing trends warrant immediate
attention from the early childhood and education fields to prevent, severely limit, and work toward eventually eliminating the expulsion and suspension – and ensure the safety and well -being – of young children in early learning settings."

"Should a situation arise where there is documented evidence that all possible interventions and supports
recommended by a qualified professional, such as an early childhood mental health consultant, have been
exhausted – and it is unanimously determined by the family, teacher, program, and other service providers
that another setting is more appropriate for the well-being of the child in question – all parties, including
the receiving program, should work together to develop a seamless transition plan and use that plan to
implement a smooth transition."
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Old 05-23-2017, 05:39 PM
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https://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/...uspensions.pdf

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION POLICY STATEMENT ON EXPULSION AND SUSPENSION POLICIES IN EARLY CHILDHOOD SETTINGS

The above is the actual 17 page statement.

"These disturbing trends warrant immediate
attention from the early childhood and education fields to prevent, severely limit, and work toward eventually eliminating the expulsion and suspension – and ensure the safety and well -being – of young children in early learning settings."
Odd thing is when licensing actually reads/views the expulsion policy they really couldn't say if it was correct or not because they do not understand fully what is expected from the provider. This happens alot here due to constant new rules/regs being implemented.
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Old 05-23-2017, 05:46 PM
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https://www.ecmhc.org/tutorials/defining/mod1_1.html

Yes, I had to google Early Childhood mental health consultation (ECMHC).

"Early childhood mental health consultation (ECMHC) is emerging an as evidence-based intervention for supporting young children's social/emotional development and addressing challenging behaviors. Over the last decade, the following research and practice guided definition has taken shape:

A problem-solving and capacity-building intervention implemented within a collaborative relationship between a professional consultant with mental health expertise and one or more caregivers, typically an early care and education provider and/or family member. "
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Old 05-24-2017, 02:48 AM
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I haven't read all that has been posted but do you think different things should be expected from different childcare settings? A family child care; mine can only have 6 FT dcks, and it's just me flying solo. I would have no time or energy to safely handle a severe problem child and I would definitely have to terminate. Besides, I feel it's my own home and business and I have every right.
The government already steps into our lives at a high rate of invasion, forcing us to spend more money/time/effort on ridiculous expectations. I'm not saying supporting difficult children is a ridiculous expectation but there is only so much one person can do.
There has GOT to be some requirements and expectations placed on children's most important influence in their lives and that is their parents. Is it just easier or is it all the funding states get for programs, that causes more restrictions on child care and schooling? I would NOT want to be a teacher in a public school system. I live in a very small town, maybe 6-7K, and even our town has a lot of problems. I can't imagine what city schools would be like.
Stop blaming poor child care or schools on children's poor performance and behavioral problems. Stop entitling children from day 1 and expecting nothing out of them. Expect respect from them, give them consequences, stop thinking every dang thing they do is cute, act like respectable adults around them. Feed them better quality foods and develop good sleep schedules!!
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Old 05-24-2017, 03:28 AM
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I haven't read all that has been posted but do you think different things should be expected from different childcare settings? A family child care; mine can only have 6 FT dcks, and it's just me flying solo. I would have no time or energy to safely handle a severe problem child and I would definitely have to terminate. Besides, I feel it's my own home and business and I have every right.
The government already steps into our lives at a high rate of invasion, forcing us to spend more money/time/effort on ridiculous expectations. I'm not saying supporting difficult children is a ridiculous expectation but there is only so much one person can do.
There has GOT to be some requirements and expectations placed on children's most important influence in their lives and that is their parents. Is it just easier or is it all the funding states get for programs, that causes more restrictions on child care and schooling? I would NOT want to be a teacher in a public school system. I live in a very small town, maybe 6-7K, and even our town has a lot of problems. I can't imagine what city schools would be like.
Stop blaming poor child care or schools on children's poor performance and behavioral problems. Stop entitling children from day 1 and expecting nothing out of them. Expect respect from them, give them consequences, stop thinking every dang thing they do is cute, act like respectable adults around them. Feed them better quality foods and develop good sleep schedules!!
I agree with this 100%. Obviously this would work better in a school system type of setting, where support staff is possible. (which is probably the whole point of the thing anyway.) I wish whoever sets these regulations would realize that expulsion is my last choice as a small business owner, and the situation where it happens would be well thought out. Its not an option I've used yet (only been open for a few years) but I need that option open for the safety and well-being of all my clients.

From an attachment standpoint, I feel that having a consistant caregiver is very important for a child, especially those who may need extra support. It has to start at the home level though.
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Old 05-24-2017, 04:31 AM
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Personally, I think someone sits atop their office building at their desk just trying to think of things to throw in and stir the pot to force more Family/Group providers to QUIT! And the funny thing is, this so-called powerful human being REALLY believes the unlicensed providers are NOT doing child care anymore
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Old 05-24-2017, 04:39 AM
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Further reading: https://www.zerotothree.org/document/908

"Who is most likely to be expelled?
 Four-year-olds are expelled at a rate about 50 percent greater than three-year-olds.
 Boys are expelled at a rate more than 4.5 times that of girls.
 African-American children are about twice as likely to be expelled as Latino and Caucasian children, and more than five times as likely to be expelled as Asian-American children.iv"

"For the first time, the federal Office of Civil Rights (OCR) collected data from all public schools nationally in 2011-2012, and released findings in the Civil Rights Data Collection, Data Snapshot: Early Childhood Education in a March 2014 report.ix This data indicated that “Black children make up 18% of preschool enrollment, but 48% of preschool children suspended more than once. Boys receive more than three out of four out-of-school preschool suspensions.” (Page 3) While preschool girls who are black are also more likely to experience “out-of-school” suspension, this data collection did not find that preschool children learning English or children with disabilities were any more likely to be suspended than other children.
This data has limitations in terms of interpreting the magnitude of the problem because it only surveyed school programs and many more preschool children are served in community based settings."

"In response to OCR data, and with growing concerns expressed by families, teachers and other stakeholders, in 2016 the US Departments of Education and Health and Human Services released a joint policy statement to raise awareness about expulsion, suspension, and other exclusionary discipline practices in early childhood settings, including issues of racial/national origin/ethnic and gender disparities and negative outcomes for children associated with expulsion and suspension in the early years, and provide the field with recommendations to limit suspension and expulsion in early childhood.xi"
I'll be the one to say it- and I'm sure I could find studies to back me up. AA children are more likely to be from one parent, low income households. I lived in the area and had very low income, primarily minority daycare before we moved. The parents are rarely involved, they believe a child hitting another is justified. I dealt with drugs (needles in car seats?) parents incarcerated and much more. There were exceptions to the rule, of course. One of my best behaved children of all time- with an amazing supportive family- was AA.

Again, back to parental responsibility. There may be a bias at play as well, but working in that atmosphere first hand, I can tell you it was NOT my bias, but observations on parent involvement, children's behavior/consequences, and home lives play a major role in suspensions/expulsions as well.
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Old 05-24-2017, 05:44 AM
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I'll be the one to say it- and I'm sure I could find studies to back me up. AA children are more likely to be from one parent, low income households. I lived in the area and had very low income, primarily minority daycare before we moved. The parents are rarely involved, they believe a child hitting another is justified. I dealt with drugs (needles in car seats?) parents incarcerated and much more. There were exceptions to the rule, of course.
I understand what you are saying. In my local area, it is the opposite. Our community has been ravaged by meth, heroin and pill mills. It is very inconsistent based on where programs are located. I wonder if the studies account for that?
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Old 05-24-2017, 09:09 AM
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I understand what you are saying. In my local area, it is the opposite. Our community has been ravaged by meth, heroin and pill mills. It is very inconsistent based on where programs are located. I wonder if the studies account for that?
I have never read a study that did account for it. I would be interested to see if economic status affected expulsion rates more than race or even gender.

Where my mom teaches is similar to what you're saying. It's a primarily white community, over 80% below the poverty level, lots of heroin and meth. Something close to half of the students in her school receive some level of additional intervention, behavioral or academic. There are so many expulsions in our county, that several school districts got together and organized a special program for these students to continue attending school. All are bused to a different district and attend a program for at risk youth. It goes from UPK-12th now, too. I wonder if I could find demographic information for the program. There are so many factors at play with education and behavior, that I think it's impossible to attribute to any one issue, but I know it starts in the home.
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Old 05-24-2017, 09:26 AM
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I have never read a study that did account for it. I would be interested to see if economic status affected expulsion rates more than race or even gender.

Where my mom teaches is similar to what you're saying. It's a primarily white community, over 80% below the poverty level, lots of heroin and meth. Something close to half of the students in her school receive some level of additional intervention, behavioral or academic. There are so many expulsions in our county, that several school districts got together and organized a special program for these students to continue attending school. All are bused to a different district and attend a program for at risk youth. It goes from UPK-12th now, too. I wonder if I could find demographic information for the program. There are so many factors at play with education and behavior, that I think it's impossible to attribute to any one issue, but I know it starts in the home.
This is a topic of discussion/concern in my area.
But not necessarily expulsion rates but absenteeism.

Race and poverty is being discussed in regards to whether or not they impact chronic absenteeism.

Well off parts of the community in comparison to the poor areas is also discussed...

Of course, the automatic solution is money.
The poorer districts and those with the most diversity are calling for more funding to address this issue and stop kids from chronic absences.

But no one will point out that the chronic absenteeism is happening the same in both the poor and better off areas.

Also I am not understanding HOW exactly will fix this?
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Old 05-24-2017, 09:49 AM
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Also I am not understanding HOW exactly will fix this?
I guess if we can't kick them out and truancy officers are still a thing, they believe they have solved it?

While creating new State job titles to over see us all. Does that count as a politicians perk?
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Old 05-24-2017, 10:27 AM
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I've been reading lately (in the newspaper, sorry I don't have the links handy and we're heading outside now) that there's a big difference in marriage/parenthood rates between the educated/more affluent and lower education/income. Pretty much the educated/better income folk wait to have children until after marriage but not so much the less ed/lower income. So the more vulnerable are attempting parenthood on their own or in less stable situations.

Looking at the why, I've been reading things like that the men just aren't that appealing to the women and so marriage isn't as appealing.

There's so much data on single motherhood corresponding/causing poverty. It makes me mad. I feel like the powerful and influential completely ignore the importance of a restrained lifestyle and are selling out the most vulnerable members of society.

I realize that my feelings aren't popular with everyone and are probably considered very old-fashioned. But the data seems to back me up.
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Old 05-24-2017, 10:32 AM
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Black males make up about 12-13% of the population but nearly 40% of the men in jail and prison. It makes sense that this kind of thing starts earlier in daycares.

Every watch the documentary called The 13th? It is great for shedding light on this topic.
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Old 05-24-2017, 10:34 AM
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I've been reading lately (in the newspaper, sorry I don't have the links handy and we're heading outside now) that there's a big difference in marriage/parenthood rates between the educated/more affluent and lower education/income. Pretty much the educated/better income folk wait to have children until after marriage but not so much the less ed/lower income. So the more vulnerable are attempting parenthood on their own or in less stable situations.

Looking at the why, I've been reading things like that the men just aren't that appealing to the women and so marriage isn't as appealing.

There's so much data on single motherhood corresponding/causing poverty. It makes me mad. I feel like the powerful and influential completely ignore the importance of a restrained lifestyle and are selling out the most vulnerable members of society.

I realize that my feelings aren't popular with everyone and are probably considered very old-fashioned. But the data seems to back me up.
I'm pretty old school myself, but children from two parent households statistically have better outcomes. I hear what you're saying.
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Old 05-24-2017, 10:39 AM
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I'm pretty old school myself, but children from two parent households statistically have better outcomes. I hear what you're saying.
I agree with this! Maybe not always but two-parent households generally have the best outcome. And I am old-school....to the point, the old commercial that says the family that eats one meal together each day has a better chance of developing a positive relationship with each other. We have two meals everyday sitting at the table together with NO cell phones....breakfast and supper Too many families live on the run from one activity to another....My sons play sports but we crockpot or eat something together at the same time if it is only a sandwich. I don't see this changing soon because too many kids today don't even know who will pick them up or where they will spend the night or when they will eat.
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Old 05-24-2017, 10:39 AM
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I've been reading lately (in the newspaper, sorry I don't have the links handy and we're heading outside now) that there's a big difference in marriage/parenthood rates between the educated/more affluent and lower education/income. Pretty much the educated/better income folk wait to have children until after marriage but not so much the less ed/lower income. So the more vulnerable are attempting parenthood on their own or in less stable situations.
This is what I have noticed as well when I worked at a centre. The families with subsidies had twice as many kids as the middle class families who did not qualify for subsidy. I personally know middle class parents who waited until their first child was in full time school before having a second child. It is sad that we pay for those subsidies with our taxes but cannot afford to have more kids ourselves.

We also had a woman work as an assistant in the centre who was a single mom living in a house with several roomates. She smoked a pack of cigarettes a day and her son had asthma. She was complaining one day about how she could not afford his asthma meds. I was considering paying for them myself because I felt bad for this sweet sweet boy. A few days later she came in and announced she was pregnant again with a big smile on her face! I was astounded. It was a big wakeup call for me.
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Old 05-24-2017, 11:05 AM
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I agree with this! Maybe not always but two-parent households generally have the best outcome. And I am old-school....to the point, the old commercial that says the family that eats one meal together each day has a better chance of developing a positive relationship with each other. We have two meals everyday sitting at the table together with NO cell phones....breakfast and supper Too many families live on the run from one activity to another....My sons play sports but we crockpot or eat something together at the same time if it is only a sandwich. I don't see this changing soon because too many kids today don't even know who will pick them up or where they will spend the night or when they will eat.
YES! We eat breakfast together and dinner together, too. The 'family dinners' are a thing of the past, sadly.
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Old 05-24-2017, 11:13 AM
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This is a topic of discussion/concern in my area.
But not necessarily expulsion rates but absenteeism.

Race and poverty is being discussed in regards to whether or not they impact chronic absenteeism.

Well off parts of the community in comparison to the poor areas is also discussed...

Of course, the automatic solution is money.
The poorer districts and those with the most diversity are calling for more funding to address this issue and stop kids from chronic absences.

But no one will point out that the chronic absenteeism is happening the same in both the poor and better off areas.

Also I am not understanding HOW exactly will fix this?
I forgot to add the link to what I was referencing
http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/new...ic-absenteeism
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Old 05-24-2017, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
This is a topic of discussion/concern in my area.
But not necessarily expulsion rates but absenteeism.

Race and poverty is being discussed in regards to whether or not they impact chronic absenteeism.

Well off parts of the community in comparison to the poor areas is also discussed...

Of course, the automatic solution is money.
The poorer districts and those with the most diversity are calling for more funding to address this issue and stop kids from chronic absences.

But no one will point out that the chronic absenteeism is happening the same in both the poor and better off areas.

Also I am not understanding HOW exactly will fix this?
Just like with the measles outbreak...they want $5 Million to manage that situation. Why? The population that has started the outbreak receives free healthcare now, but have CHOSEN not to vaccinate for their own reasons. How will throwing even more money at this change that? I mean, the vaccines are already free so unless they are planning to pay people to vaccinate their children what is the money for?
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Old 05-24-2017, 12:04 PM
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Black males make up about 12-13% of the population but nearly 40% of the men in jail and prison. It makes sense that this kind of thing starts earlier in daycares.

Every watch the documentary called The 13th? It is great for shedding light on this topic.
I watched an excellent piece about the incarceration rates for women. I can't remember the stats exactly, but ti was something like 80% were in for non violent crimes and because of mandatory minimum sentences, there sentences were harsher than their male counterparts. In most cases, they were arrested for drugs or prostitution. Many were under the orders of pimps and were being forced to sell drugs and were also very addicted to drugs. The number of women literally going crazy and being sent to the psych ward of the prisons went from like a handful to so many that they have run out of room. Other female prisoners take turns doing suicide watch and they said their is an attempt daily. A majority of these women are mothers. One woman who was cooking meth and selling it with her boyfriend was sentenced to 58 years. There were murderers in the same prison with her who got 20.

The one thing I noticed however, was there was a very proportionate amount of different races. White, black, hispanic, ect. In male prisons, it is predominately black.
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