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Old 03-29-2017, 07:46 AM
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Default Update On Biter And Advice Needed

So i mentioned my 16 month old dcb (although i think i said 14 months in previous post) who is aggressive and bites without prompting.
Here is a quick review of our week so far: Monday:
walked up to another child and grabbed their face, digging his nails into the child. Dh and i were both a hands reach away. The other child still has scratch marks from it.

Tuesday:
At breakfast, i have wash clothes i use to wipe the kids down with after meals. I tossed them onto the table. I was cleaning one child up when DCB grabbed a towel and started intentionally smacking another child in the face with it.

dcb was acting a little wild, throwing toys and the such so i was proactive and separated him from the group. Dcb was gated into the hallway. I took another child into or one of the bedrooms to nap. I set him down while i got the sheet on his pack and play. The bedroom door didn't latch and he started to open it. DCB was right there and attempted to bite the child on the face but i was able to stop it.

Everyone was sitting down with dh for stories after lunch. Dh always separates DCB from the group with his leg. I sat a baby down on the other side of dh's leg. DCB immediately leaned over dh's leg and attempted to bite the baby in the face.

After nap we only had 3 children so we let DCB join them outside. After multiples times of redirecting him for throwing toys at the other children i went to lead him away by his hand. He proceeded to continue to hit the child.

When we are inside, we separate DCB by gating him off into another room. We have to use two gates though because if he can reach anyone over the gate, he will grab or hit them. When we are outside, he goes into a pack n play.
Anytime we redirect, he throws himself down and cries. He doesn't really play with toys... He just runs around throwing and dumping them.

I have an email i sent his parents after his first week here mentioning the face grabbing and ay the time hair pulling. She said they were working on it at home. I have seen him grab and hit dad's face at pick up before. They both say he isn't aggressive at home.

Mom wants to talk tonight so that we are all I the same page. I'm at a total loss of what to do since nothing prompts his aggression. Is there really anything to do besides redirect and separate??
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Old 03-29-2017, 08:15 AM
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That's alot of separation and redirection for ONE child.

I couldn't do it and would probably let him go...it sounds like he isn't really a good fit for your environment since it seems to prompt him to hit and/or bite so that isn't good for anyone.

Maybe he needs a more physical environment.... I don't know but I just don't think I could keep him. Like I said, it's a LOT of redirecting, separating and conversation for ONE child.
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Old 03-29-2017, 08:27 AM
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How I handle it is this: it happens once and they are my shadow. NO access to other kids. Separate play areas. Then I reintegrate and watch closely. If it happens twice then parents are put on notice. A lot of redirection. Right beside them, watching for triggers, etc. If it happens three times, I'm done.

I don't care what age the child is. I am not equipped to handle that behaviour here. I am here by myself and I refuse to spend that much time shadowing when I have a whole group to care for.

If it gets to the terming point, I suggest going somewhere where there are at least 2 adults or just a plain change of scenery.

The child needs to be somewhere where they can 'succeed' and a change of scenery/environment can be enough to nip the behaviour. I also tell parents that I've taken on biters, from other daycares, and not had any issues here, so the environment plays a HUGE role, imho.

(I just termed a biter before Christmas, same age. SO much relief once she was gone. She had much the same aggressive behaviours and it was unpredictable and unmanageable in a 1 adult group setting.)
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Old 03-29-2017, 08:27 AM
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I would terminate immediately!! Not fair to you guys and not fair to the other kids.

To me biting with no reason is impossible to control.
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Old 03-29-2017, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
That's alot of separation and redirection for ONE child.

I couldn't do it and would probably let him go...it sounds like he isn't really a good fit for your environment since it seems to prompt him to hit and/or bite so that isn't good for anyone.

Maybe he needs a more physical environment.... I don't know but I just don't think I could keep him. Like I said, it's a LOT of redirecting, separating and conversation for ONE child.
Quote:
Originally Posted by childcaremom View Post
How I handle it is this: it happens once and they are my shadow. NO access to other kids. Separate play areas. Then I reintegrate and watch closely. If it happens twice then parents are put on notice. A lot of redirection. Right beside them, watching for triggers, etc. If it happens three times, I'm done.

I don't care what age the child is. I am not equipped to handle that behaviour here. I am here by myself and I refuse to spend that much time shadowing when I have a whole group to care for.

If it gets to the terming point, I suggest going somewhere where there are at least 2 adults or just a plain change of scenery.

The child needs to be somewhere where they can 'succeed' and a change of scenery/environment can be enough to nip the behaviour. I also tell parents that I've taken on biters, from other daycares, and not had any issues here, so the environment plays a HUGE role, imho.

(I just termed a biter before Christmas, same age. SO much relief once she was gone. She had much the same aggressive behaviours and it was unpredictable and unmanageable in a 1 adult group setting.)
There are two adults here...

I feel like I'm doing something wrong. But then i think about how he acted like this from the first 5 minutes he was here on his first day, its just gotten worse.

Mom and dad ask how they can help him but i had no ideas since there is nothing visibly prompting him.
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Old 03-29-2017, 08:59 AM
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I was exhausted from just reading that lol, there is just no way I would keep a child that was that much work...I would constantly be on edge and stressed wondering when he will plan his next attack. I would term, imagine how peaceful everything would be and how much more time you will have to spend focusing on the kids that don't have behavior problems!

You seem to be worried/feeling like there is something you should be able to do to prevent this but imo I am not out to "fix" everyone, I would replace this child with someone who is a better fit and tell the mom that he needs one on one care at this time.
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Old 03-29-2017, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenboo View Post
There are two adults here...

I feel like I'm doing something wrong. But then i think about how he acted like this from the first 5 minutes he was here on his first day, its just gotten worse.

Mom and dad ask how they can help him but i had no ideas since there is nothing visibly prompting him.
You are NOT doing anything wrong but sometimes some kids just don't mesh well with your program. Doesn't mean there is anything wrong with you, your DH or the child. Just not a good fit for each other.

As for mom/dad helping, all they can really do is continually reinforce no aggressive behavior. They can role model pro social behaviors so that DCB can see how we treat each other and how personal space is everyone's right.

He might just be that personality type that likes to get a rise out of others...sometimes its simply in their DNA but it doesnt mean there is anything wrong with him, his parents, you/your program etc.... Its really no different than other personality traits.

Some kids are extroverts and others are introverts but no matter what temperament or personality traits we have, we all learn how to behave well in social situations but that doesn't mean you have to continue dealing with it. As a self-employed business owner, it's up to you (and DH) to decide if it's worth continuing to redirect, shadow and stay on top of.... If not, don't feel bad terming. It is what it is.
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Old 03-29-2017, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenboo View Post
I feel like I'm doing something wrong. But then i think about how he acted like this from the first 5 minutes he was here on his first day, its just gotten worse.
You are not doing anything wrong. You (and your dh) are responsible for the group of children and are doing what is needed to keep all of them safe. That said, I feel the amount of separation and redirection that child is experiencing will likely cause him to be more aggressive and more resentful toward the other children NOT teach him how to interact. In your shoes I would suggest the parents get and read Hands Are Not For Hitting as well as Teeth Are Not For Biting as well as require them to either 1) hire a shadow for dcb or 2) suggest they look for either a one on one caregiver setting for dcb or a 3) program that is very structured with ample opportunity for outdoor play.
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Old 03-29-2017, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
You are NOT doing anything wrong but sometimes some kids just don't mesh well with your program. Doesn't mean there is anything wrong with you, your DH or the child. Just not a good fit for each other.

As for mom/dad helping, all they can really do is continually reinforce no aggressive behavior. They can role model pro social behaviors so that DCB can see how we treat each other and how personal space is everyone's right.

He might just be that personality type that likes to get a rise out of others...sometimes its simply in their DNA but it doesnt mean there is anything wrong with him, his parents, you/your program etc.... Its really no different than other personality traits.

Some kids are extroverts and others are introverts but no matter what temperament or personality traits we have, we all learn how to behave well in social situations but that doesn't mean you have to continue dealing with it. As a self-employed business owner, it's up to you (and DH) to decide if it's worth continuing to redirect, shadow and stay on top of.... If not, don't feel bad terming. It is what it is.


This is exactly what I told my dcm. That it wasn't a reflection of the child, of me, or the parents. (my dcps had tried, and I gave them a longer "trial" because we were both working on it)

I framed it to be in dcb's best interest: Dcb needs to be somewhere where he can be successful. He is not responding to your redirection or shadowing attempts. At this point, a change of scenery would be in dcb's best interest.
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Old 03-29-2017, 09:40 AM
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Thanks for the reassurance!

We have spent a lot of time modeling positive interactions and doing soft hands ect before we started isolating him but even if i was holding is other hand, he would still hurt the other kids. That's when we decided to start separating him
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Old 03-30-2017, 05:21 AM
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I had this same issue. The child ended up being separated from the other children 90% of the time. I felt it was not fair for the rest of the kids to worry about getting hurt, and also not fair for the child who had to play alone all of the time. I loved this child and tried everything to make it work but ended up terming. Best decision I ever made for the children AND for me!
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Old 03-30-2017, 09:42 AM
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When you saw him grabbing dads face, etc at pick up what was dad's reaction?

Does he listen to a stern "NO" ?

I couldn't deal with this for long. Unless I saw improvement I would be done.
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Old 03-30-2017, 09:47 AM
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When you saw him grabbing dads face, etc at pick up what was dad's reaction?

Does he listen to a stern "NO" ?

I couldn't deal with this for long. Unless I saw improvement I would be done.
Dad just moved his hand. Mom said they have been working on it with the dog at home.

He is just so aggressive in everthing he does. He plows over everyone in his path.
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Old 03-30-2017, 09:54 AM
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Dad just moved his hand. Mom said they have been working on it with the dog at home.

He is just so aggressive in everthing he does. He plows over everyone in his path.
So he IS aggressive at home with the dog? Dad should have reacted more than moving his hand, imho.
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Old 03-30-2017, 10:09 AM
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I too was exhausted reading your post! lol I would have given him three warnings as the other posted and then terminate him. His aggression is out of control at this point. You need to be pro active and keep the other kids safe. Constantly removing him from the others isn't going to help him, but I understand you have to do it. This is exactly why I would have given him notice. He's an accident waiting to happen and you need to protect the children and yourself!!
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Old 03-30-2017, 11:12 AM
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So he IS aggressive at home with the dog? Dad should have reacted more than moving his hand, imho.
Yeah mom mentioned the dog when we talked yesterday. Before they kept saying that he wasn't aggressive at home.

He did good yesterday but that's because i was able to keep him away from the other kids in the yard. We are stuck inside today.
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Old 03-30-2017, 12:08 PM
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I'm sorry. That makes me anxious to think about being on edge the entire day trying to anticipate harmful behaviors before they occur.

I would issue a behavior plan. Three more issues and he's suspended for a day. After the suspension, should there be any other issues the contract will be terminated.

It's odd to me that Mom was adamant about him not being aggressive at home yet told you yesterday that they're trying to help him stop with the dog. The lying, and not actually sending a clear NO message from Dad at pick up, makes me think they're not really working on it. Don't think I'd continue on.
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Old 03-30-2017, 12:27 PM
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I'm sorry. That makes me anxious to think about being on edge the entire day trying to anticipate harmful behaviors before they occur.

I would issue a behavior plan. Three more issues and he's suspended for a day. After the suspension, should there be any other issues the contract will be terminated.

It's odd to me that Mom was adamant about him not being aggressive at home yet told you yesterday that they're trying to help him stop with the dog. The lying, and not actually sending a clear NO message from Dad at pick up, makes me think they're not really working on it. Don't think I'd continue on.
This was my conclusion as well.

I like the behavioral intervention plan idea. Noticeable improvement in X amount of time with NO incidents to continue care.
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Old 03-30-2017, 12:41 PM
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This was my conclusion as well.

I like the behavioral intervention plan idea. Noticeable improvement in X amount of time with NO incidents to continue care.
After terming a cosleeper we finally filled our lsst spot. I don't want to go through this again

I'll get a plan written up...
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