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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Knock It Off, Dad!
MotherNature 04:43 AM 12-06-2013
DCG-7 mos just gets here, and is asleep. Great! Half the time she is. So he sets her down in the carseat on the couch & signs her in, just like every day. But every day as he says bye, he strokes her cheek. Sometimes several times until she stirs. Grrr! Let her freaking sleep! She's not going to realize you're leaving. I know, it's love and guilt that causes parents to want their kids to pine for them in their absence, but seriously she's 7 mos old. Also, let her sleep!!! because she's been teething and has had some rather nasty diapers this week & earlier in the week, vomiting. There's something viral 24 hrs going around here. I had it Monday & thought it was food poisoning but I guess not. Also, let her sleep!!! Because I was up all night with my son who was throwing up. He finally stopped around 3 am, and is still upstairs asleep. Have I mentioned that he should let her sleep? Does anyone else have parents that habitually wake their baby when they leave? It's the weirdest thing to me. I know he's not thinking 'You have her 10 hrs daily. I should let you ease into your morning after a rough night.' Ha!Ha!
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MrsSteinel'sHouse 04:51 AM 12-06-2013
Yes, I use to have a dad that has to hug and love on his kids until they cry for him as he leaves. But, I have since trained him. He does one knuckles, one high five and walks out the door.
As for sleeping baby though- I would have to take her out of the car seat and lay her down anyway... so weather she would stay asleep or not would depend on how tired she was. I can not allow a child to sleep in a car seat. So yes, as annoying as it is to wake them, I can not allow the chance of them not waking up.

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/pare...-seats-5510875
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MotherNature 05:31 AM 12-06-2013
Yeah, I can understand that. She's my first kid-only one for an hour or two, so she just sits right next to me.
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Unregistered 05:57 AM 12-06-2013
Maybe just explaining it to him would fix the problem. My oldest was a super fussy baby. When I would go to drop him off I would take his outer clothing and things off and after a few days my provider asked me to just leave him sleeping in his car seat.

I was ok with it because he was a very high maintenance child and I knew that even letting him sleep he would probably be up and crying in less than an hour so it wasn't hurting him and I had enough trouble trying to get ready and out the door in the morning with a screaming kid, I could only imagine what patience it took for her to do that with the other kids as well.
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Unregistered 06:01 AM 12-06-2013
I thought it was advised that we never accept a sleeping child in a carseat into care. They must be wakened before the parent leaves. A liability thing?
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Heidi 06:54 AM 12-06-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I thought it was advised that we never accept a sleeping child in a carseat into care. They must be wakened before the parent leaves. A liability thing?
Yes, that is the advice. The premise is that if the child is actually unconscious due to the parent hurting them, we would take the blame.
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nannyde 06:56 AM 12-06-2013
I would NEVER allow a child to remain asleep at drop off. I am not allowed to have them sleep anywhere but a crib or pack n play.

I need to assess that the child is awake and alert at drop off. You never know the day will come where a baby was shaken or slammed before they come. I don't want to miss any changes in consciousness.

I also need to touch them to assess their body temp. I need to scan them for any bumps or bruises or rash.

Nope. I want them WIDE awake when they arrive. Then they go to bed and put themselves to sleep for a morning nap.
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MotherNature 07:08 AM 12-06-2013
oooh-good points, guys. I do touch her & she will stir. She's normally awake at drop off, but you all make a good point.
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TwinKristi 08:23 AM 12-06-2013
Meh... I follow the rule of never waking a sleeping baby. Call me old school but I guess having a small daycare I don't worry much about parents abusing their infant to the point of being unconscious and then bringing them to daycare. I'm sure there's a slim (VERY) chance that it could happen but if this is a regular occurrence that's a little different. Babies NEED sleep. It would annoy me too if dad woke up baby every time he dropped off!
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nannyde 08:53 AM 12-06-2013
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
Meh... I follow the rule of never waking a sleeping baby. Call me old school but I guess having a small daycare I don't worry much about parents abusing their infant to the point of being unconscious and then bringing them to daycare. I'm sure there's a slim (VERY) chance that it could happen but if this is a regular occurrence that's a little different. Babies NEED sleep. It would annoy me too if dad woke up baby every time he dropped off!
Does your state allow you to have them sleep in a car seat? It's not old school in Iowa. It's illegal.
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Blackcat31 09:02 AM 12-06-2013
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Does your state allow you to have them sleep in a car seat? It's not old school in Iowa. It's illegal.
Not to mention the safety risk alone. positional asphyxia.

The American Academy of Pediatrics suggests the even 20 minutes in a car seat is dangerous.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/10...eep-car-seats/

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/posit...n-infants.html

They also state that placing a car seat on a soft surface such as a rug can cause the car seat to sit improperly causing reduced air flow to the infant.

Besides the legality, sleeping in a car seat is such a dangerous action that there is NO way that I would take that risk with someone else's child.

Nothing old school about that.
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CedarCreek 09:06 AM 12-06-2013
I prefer to wake them up too. If a baby comes in a car seat, I immediately take them out, sleeping or not. Usually here, they need breakfast anyway.
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sharlan 09:14 AM 12-06-2013
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
Meh... I follow the rule of never waking a sleeping baby. Call me old school but I guess having a small daycare I don't worry much about parents abusing their infant to the point of being unconscious and then bringing them to daycare. I'm sure there's a slim (VERY) chance that it could happen but if this is a regular occurrence that's a little different. Babies NEED sleep. It would annoy me too if dad woke up baby every time he dropped off!
Yes, babies need sleep, but at what cost to them and us?

We were told when my eldest grandson (6) was born to never allow him to be in a carseat if the car was not moving, not to use a stroller that used the carseat. We assumed it was because he was a premie and had breathing issues at birth. I learned here that it was because of the possibility of positional asphyxia.

There is a provider from the Sacramento area who is in jail because she left a newborn infant in a carseat to sleep and he died. Of course, there is a lot more to the story, but it all started when she allowed the infant to sleep in the carseat.

It may not be in our regs, but it is a dangerous practice, one that I no longer do.
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MrsSteinel'sHouse 09:23 AM 12-06-2013
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
Meh... I follow the rule of never waking a sleeping baby. Call me old school but I guess having a small daycare I don't worry much about parents abusing their infant to the point of being unconscious and then bringing them to daycare. I'm sure there's a slim (VERY) chance that it could happen but if this is a regular occurrence that's a little different. Babies NEED sleep. It would annoy me too if dad woke up baby every time he dropped off!
There are many practices that we use to do with children that are no longer deemed safe. I was never in a car seat and rarely buckled in. My brother died at 5 months in a car accident when he was squished between my mother (holding him) and the dashboard. My children were (are) always buckled in. We had cribs with slats that heads could get between... We are always finding out things to make it safer for us to watch children.
Babies do need sleep, and generally moving them does not wake them. A 7 month old is old enough to be up at drop off. Eat breakfast and then have a morning nap. I have even taken to the practice of no car seats in. They must unbuckle their child and carry them in. Especially young parents, tend to not pick up their kidlets but lug them in a car seat. I explain to them the importance of not having them in the car seat except for transportation. Not pushing them around WalMart etc.
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sharlan 09:24 AM 12-06-2013
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Does your state allow you to have them sleep in a car seat? It's not old school in Iowa. It's illegal.
There is nothing in our regs regarding infants sleeping in carseats. Just because it may be legal does not make it safe.
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Angelsj 09:34 AM 12-06-2013
I only take one at a time (infants) and mine is the first one here (along with 2.5 yo brother.) If you don't want them awake for some reason, as mine always comes having just BF, you could try slowly undressing them and gently moving them to PnP or crib (or Mobi.)
Mom brings in the car seat, and I slowly take all her stuff off, and gently move her to where she will be sleeping for the morning. She will often sleep 4-5 hours.
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Josiegirl 10:22 AM 12-06-2013
I'm not disputing the safety aspect of this at all but I am curious as to the difference between sleeping in the car seat whether it's riding in the car or sitting on the floor?
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Blackcat31 10:28 AM 12-06-2013
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
I'm not disputing the safety aspect of this at all but I am curious as to the difference between sleeping in the car seat whether it's riding in the car or sitting on the floor?
The APA says
"The incline of a car seat is also crucial, said Silva -- an infant car seat must be installed such that the baby sits at a 45-degree angle, which helps keep the airway open"

They also recommend stopping periodically during long car trips to check on the position and condition of the infant.

"Infant car seats are not designed to be used as cribs, or for extended amounts of time. The risk of baby's head falling forward in a way that would affect breathing is also one reason why it's important to be sure that rear-facing car seats are installed at the proper angle, according to manufacturer's instructions. Robinson suggests that parents limit infants to a couple of hours of sleep in a car seat at a time, and never overnight. Even during road trips, it's a good idea to take baby out of the car seat every couple of hours, he said. The Canadian Pediatric Society recommends that babies not be allowed to sleep longer than one hour during car rides." http://babyproducts.about.com/b/2009...-car-seats.htm
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CedarCreek 10:59 AM 12-06-2013
I remember when mine were babies and I would go to my sisters (about 4 hours away) I stopped at least once an hour to check on them. Diapers needed to be changed and feeding had to be done anyway.
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TwinKristi 01:38 PM 12-06-2013
Well amazingly my kids have survived trips in the car seat for more than an hour several times. Comparing children living through the era of no seats or the lack of "rules" we had as kids is really pointless.
I have NEVER been told anything about this with ANY of my kids including one who isn't yet 2. I have been through all the different sleep position rec's- tummy, side, back... I have been through all the different food rec's (starting cereal early in a bottle, waiting til 4 mos, waiting til 6mos) and worked in an infant room at a childcare and we had parents bring sleeping babies in all the time.
I'm not saying this is where I would put the child to sleep on a regular basis, but if someone is asleep when they're dropped off I have never read or heard anywhere that they should be immediately removed. I have actually heard from other moms that their Ped rec'd sleeping in the car seat or swing for reflux babies and most preemies or babies under 6lbs have to pass a 1-2hr car seat test to be released from the hospital, this has been a practice for ages because of small babies having positional asphyxia.
I don't think a 7 month old is at risk for positional asphyxia, perhaps a newborn, but not an infant who can move their own head at will and fits well in the seat. Take what I say as it is... My personal experience and opinion. I have never left an infant asleep in their car seat for very long so it's not really something I do as practice anyway, but I don't think leaving a 7 month old to sleep for an hour before the other kids get there when they're right next to the provider is a big deal granted it's not against the law in your state. If this is against the law in CA they didn't do a good job telling providers about it!
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daycare 01:43 PM 12-06-2013
whither its against the law or not should not be a reason to allow a baby to arrive asleep in a carseat. Law or not, it's extremely dangerous.

You have no clue if that child is alive/suffering any issues or not when they are getting dropped off. Sounds far fetched, but how do you know that the parent didn't just bang this child's head against a wall, or shake them or (fill in the blank).

ALL of us providers should be doing a routine wellness check as each child arrives every single day.

I don't take infants because for me it's just way too many risks involved.
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TwinKristi 01:48 PM 12-06-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
The APA says
"The incline of a car seat is also crucial, said Silva -- an infant car seat must be installed such that the baby sits at a 45-degree angle, which helps keep the airway open"

They also recommend stopping periodically during long car trips to check on the position and condition of the infant.

"Infant car seats are not designed to be used as cribs, or for extended amounts of time. The risk of baby's head falling forward in a way that would affect breathing is also one reason why it's important to be sure that rear-facing car seats are installed at the proper angle, according to manufacturer's instructions. Robinson suggests that parents limit infants to a couple of hours of sleep in a car seat at a time, and never overnight. Even during road trips, it's a good idea to take baby out of the car seat every couple of hours, he said. The Canadian Pediatric Society recommends that babies not be allowed to sleep longer than one hour during car rides." http://babyproducts.about.com/b/2009...-car-seats.htm
I don't think anyone (especially myself) has recommended a baby sleep for an extended period of time in the carseat. Even a typical nap may only be 2hrs but even that is acceptable in this source. This source here states it perfectly. No, you shouldn't allow your newborn to sleep in a car seat all night (if they even slept all night to begin with!) but a couple hours is okay. But considering the OP said herself it's like maybe an hour and she's 7 mos old! We're not talking about letting a newborn baby sleep in one rather than a crib but if they're asleep at drop off at that age I would allow them to sleep for a short period of time.
But as I've said numerous times, regulations are based on black and white, yes and no answers not yes IF this and no IF that. It's just yes or no because they have to err on the side of caution but we all have to use our own judgement for the individual case unless it's strictly prohibited.
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CedarCreek 01:53 PM 12-06-2013
Both of my boys were preemies and had to do the car seat test. They were hooked up to monitors and I sat with them the whole time. They passed. That did not mean I wasn't freaked about checking on them on road trips. I personally am very paranoid.

My oldest had a heart monitor that went off when his heart beat got too low and I can tell you that it went off a lot when he was in his car seat. I would have to pull over and check him, jostle him a little and such.

I haven't heard it recommended for acid reflux but I myself did use a boppy with blankets over it to make a little "nest" and provide that extra angle.
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NeedaVaca 01:53 PM 12-06-2013
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
Well amazingly my kids have survived trips in the car seat for more than an hour several times. Comparing children living through the era of no seats or the lack of "rules" we had as kids is really pointless.
I have NEVER been told anything about this with ANY of my kids including one who isn't yet 2. I have been through all the different sleep position rec's- tummy, side, back... I have been through all the different food rec's (starting cereal early in a bottle, waiting til 4 mos, waiting til 6mos) and worked in an infant room at a childcare and we had parents bring sleeping babies in all the time.
I'm not saying this is where I would put the child to sleep on a regular basis, but if someone is asleep when they're dropped off I have never read or heard anywhere that they should be immediately removed. I have actually heard from other moms that their Ped rec'd sleeping in the car seat or swing for reflux babies and most preemies or babies under 6lbs have to pass a 1-2hr car seat test to be released from the hospital, this has been a practice for ages because of small babies having positional asphyxia.
I don't think a 7 month old is at risk for positional asphyxia, perhaps a newborn, but not an infant who can move their own head at will and fits well in the seat. Take what I say as it is... My personal experience and opinion. I have never left an infant asleep in their car seat for very long so it's not really something I do as practice anyway, but I don't think leaving a 7 month old to sleep for an hour before the other kids get there when they're right next to the provider is a big deal granted it's not against the law in your state. If this is against the law in CA they didn't do a good job telling providers about it!
Absolutely a 7 month old or even older could die from this. I would never risk their safety, and I'm surprised you are being so nonchalant about this...

This is just one of MANY articles.

http://www.idph.state.ia.us/hcci/com...ositioning.pdf
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KidGrind 01:54 PM 12-06-2013
I have an early bird. A couple of times the mother has passed her off to me asleep. She once in a blue moon opens her eyes, smiles and then drifts back to counting sheep. Most of the time, she opens her eyes, blinks then points upstairs and says, “Up!”

Some of you have given me food for thought for the blue moon days.
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TwinKristi 02:03 PM 12-06-2013
Originally Posted by NeedaVaca:
Absolutely a 7 month old or even older could die from this. I would never risk their safety, and I'm surprised you are being so nonchalant about this...

This is just one of MANY articles.

http://www.idph.state.ia.us/hcci/com...ositioning.pdf
This is my last post on this topic as obviously some of you feel very strongly about this and that's great! But in the link, there was also one OTHER thing that was in common in those situations. Children were left "unattended" when these things happened. That link also specified swings, strollers and high chairs. Does everyone not use those either? I mean I use them daily (except the swing) but I am right here with them. THAT seems to be the big factor in my opinion!
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CedarCreek 02:06 PM 12-06-2013
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
This is my last post on this topic as obviously some of you feel very strongly about this and that's great! But in the link, there was also one OTHER thing that was in common in those situations. Children were left "unattended" when these things happened. That link also specified swings, strollers and high chairs. Does everyone not use those either? I mean I use them daily (except the swing) but I am right here with them. THAT seems to be the big factor in my opinion!
I agree that is probably the key factor.
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daycare 02:07 PM 12-06-2013
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
This is my last post on this topic as obviously some of you feel very strongly about this and that's great! But in the link, there was also one OTHER thing that was in common in those situations. Children were left "unattended" when these things happened. That link also specified swings, strollers and high chairs. Does everyone not use those either? I mean I use them daily (except the swing) but I am right here with them. THAT seems to be the big factor in my opinion!
I hear what you are saying, but I think what needs to be looked at too, is what I had mentioned before in my previous post.

Taking in a sleeping child in any way shape or form, carseat or not, is not safe.
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sharlan 02:20 PM 12-06-2013
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
I don't think anyone (especially myself) has recommended a baby sleep for an extended period of time in the carseat. Even a typical nap may only be 2hrs but even that is acceptable in this source. This source here states it perfectly. No, you shouldn't allow your newborn to sleep in a car seat all night (if they even slept all night to begin with!) but a couple hours is okay. But considering the OP said herself it's like maybe an hour and she's 7 mos old! We're not talking about letting a newborn baby sleep in one rather than a crib but if they're asleep at drop off at that age I would allow them to sleep for a short period of time.
But as I've said numerous times, regulations are based on black and white, yes and no answers not yes IF this and no IF that. It's just yes or no because they have to err on the side of caution but we all have to use our own judgement for the individual case unless it's strictly prohibited.
I do not know how long you have been a licensed provider in CA, but there is very little black and white, yes or no. Everything in this state is varying shades of gray and various interpretations by various analysts. What one analyst says is fine, another analyst will write you up.
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daycare 02:21 PM 12-06-2013
Originally Posted by sharlan:
I do not know how long you have been a licensed provider in CA, but there is very little black and white, yes or no. Everything in this state is varying shades of gray and various interpretations by various analysts. What one analyst says is fine, another analyst will write you up.
Ca provider here for 11 years and I can say Ditto on this
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sharlan 02:23 PM 12-06-2013
The bottom line is you do what you are comfortable doing.
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Blackcat31 02:41 PM 12-06-2013
This is for California providers

http://www.ucsfchildcarehealth.org/p...eep_policy.pdf
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daycare 02:55 PM 12-06-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
This is for California providers

http://www.ucsfchildcarehealth.org/p...eep_policy.pdf
thanks BC I really don't know the infant laws anymore here in CA. I have only ever had two infants in my care and that was when I first started. found out early on that it was not for me.....
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Blackcat31 03:03 PM 12-06-2013
Originally Posted by daycare:
thanks BC I really don't know the infant laws anymore here in CA. I have only ever had two infants in my care and that was when I first started. found out early on that it was not for me.....
Yeah, your regs are weird and confusing too...Like Sharlan said, all kind of gray.

The link I just posted said infants may spend time in bouncy chairs etc but then your state regs say "Baby walkers (exersaucers, jumpers, bouncy seats, and similar items) are not allowed on the premises" so it's almost like...well, which is it?
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sharlan 03:11 PM 12-06-2013
BC, I am having computer issues, may have picked up a virus today.

Anyways, from what I can tell, the link that you posted is from the University of California San Francisco. They have nothing to do with Title 22 Regs.
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Blackcat31 03:14 PM 12-06-2013
Originally Posted by sharlan:
BC, I am having computer issues, may have picked up a virus today.

Anyways, from what I can tell, the link that you posted is from the University of California San Francisco. They have nothing to do with Title 22 Regs.
Yeah, I know...it does say Child Care Health Programs on it and I found the link on the California DHS website on the same page they post regs for both family child cares and centers so I assume it is a practice that your state supports and recommends. ...even if it isn't an actual written regulation.

Your Title 22 stuff is THE strangest stuff I've read yet when it comes to each individual state.
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daycare 03:17 PM 12-06-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Yeah, I know...it does say Child Care Health Programs on it and I found the link on the California DHS website on the same page they post regs for both family child cares and centers so I assume it is a practice that your state supports and recommends. ...even if it isn't an actual written regulation.

Your Title 22 stuff is THE strangest stuff I've read yet when it comes to each individual state.
CA= land of the fruits and nuts................lol
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sharlan 03:18 PM 12-06-2013
Yep, and if you notice, the Title 22 Regs have not been updated since 2009.
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TwinKristi 03:27 PM 12-06-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
This is for California providers

http://www.ucsfchildcarehealth.org/p...eep_policy.pdf
This isn't a state site, this is a UCSF nursing program that works with child care programs on safety. This is a great resource but by no means law. I have yet to find anything in title 22 about car seats except proper use when transporting.

As I've said, a recommendation is one thing and a law is another. It's recommended children under 2 remain rear facing in their seats but LAW says 1yr/20lbs.
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sharlan 03:30 PM 12-06-2013
Originally Posted by daycare:
CA= land of the fruits and nuts................lol
Yep, you got it.

Our Title 22 Regs say nothing about letting kids jump off the roof either, but we don't let them do it.
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Meeko 03:39 PM 12-06-2013
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Does your state allow you to have them sleep in a car seat? It's not old school in Iowa. It's illegal.
Same in Utah. We are required to take them out of a car seat immediately upon arrival. Doesn't matter if they are asleep or not. Car seats cannot be used as infant chairs during the day either.

However, I don't like storing the darn things, so I have parents just bring in the baby...no matter how small. Makes my life easier.

I've had a provider friend receive a citation because licensing showed up a minute flat after baby did...before she had a chance to get baby out of the seat. Don't wan't to run that risk either.

Like Nannyde....I want to see the baby and check it over before the parent leaves.
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Nellie 03:41 PM 12-06-2013
I had a mom that wouldn't leave till I took the baby out of the car seat. I am paranoid about the letting a baby sleep in a car seat, but she dropped off at 7:15 and my son leaves for pre K at 7:30. She typically left at 7:25. The baby was always sleeping and would wake up as soon as he was out and typically only slept 10 mins here and there(maybe totaling an hour) the entire 10 1/2 hour day here. I just wanted to let him sleep till 7:31 after I sent my son out the door. I ended up having to have my son in all his gear ready to go before she came. Days she was 5 mins early, I would just have to set the baby down and let him cry while I helped get DS out the door. He started at 6 weeks and only stayed till 3 1/2 months. A close family member lost her job and needed the extra money. I had gotten to the point that I didn't know what to do with the baby. I tried every trick in the book even when held he wouldn't stay asleep.
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Unregistered 03:41 PM 12-06-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I thought it was advised that we never accept a sleeping child in a carseat into care. They must be wakened before the parent leaves. A liability thing?
I never heard that and my own kids HAD to sleep in a seat due to apnea issues. IDK how weird that now they're saying you can't do that???? I can't imagine what kind of liability it would cause?
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NeedaVaca 03:50 PM 12-06-2013
Honestly, I don't care if there is a specific law telling me we can't do it. If you do the research and know it's a risk then it's a risk I'm not willing to take. I don't know if there is a law saying I have to cut my grapes before giving them to the kids but I cut them, it's a risk I'm not willing to take.
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TwinKristi 04:12 PM 12-06-2013
You ladies are unbelievable sometimes... Seriously!
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Blackcat31 04:41 PM 12-06-2013
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
You ladies are unbelievable sometimes... Seriously!
Unbelievable how?
Because we are concerned about unsafe practices?
Because we are willing to go above and beyond to ensure the safety of other people's kids.
Because we do MORE than just what the state says we have to?

I guess I am not getting why you are having an issue with any of this.
No one is directing anything to you specifically nor saying "OMG TwinKristie you are so wrong!"

Providers are discussing ways to be as safe as we can.
Providers are sharing things they know about liability and safe sleep practices.

If you are taking this personally, that's on you because I havent posted a single reply directed AT you or anything you've said.

You are right though, many providers feel strongly about this topic so I am sure it will continue to be discussed. Whether you agree or disagree is moot.

Do what YOU feel comfortable doing.

I think this thread is full of VERY valuable info for those that want it.
You don't have to participate in a discussion you dont agree with.
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craftymissbeth 04:52 PM 12-06-2013
Twinkristie -

http://www.healthychildren.org/engli...ting-sids.aspx

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Pediatri...ediatrics/6199

There are many, many other articles out there. I HIGHLY suggest you educate yourself. Not only is the risk of positional asphyxiation present, so is the risk of SIDS. And even if you are HOLDING a baby they can still die from SIDS... in your arms! Do what you want with your own children, but do not risk the lives of other peoples children. I am absolutely appalled by your lack of concern on this issue...

Sorry that this is coming off so harshly, but my nephew died from SIDS and it makes me sick to my stomach that there still people out there that don't follow safe sleep practices 100% of the time... especially with other peoples children. You are NEVER the same after you bury a baby
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sharlan 05:37 PM 12-06-2013
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
Twinkristie -

http://www.healthychildren.org/engli...ting-sids.aspx

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Pediatri...ediatrics/6199

There are many, many other articles out there. I HIGHLY suggest you educate yourself. Not only is the risk of positional asphyxiation present, so is the risk of SIDS. And even if you are HOLDING a baby they can still die from SIDS... in your arms! Do what you want with your own children, but do not risk the lives of other peoples children. I am absolutely appalled by your lack of concern on this issue...

Sorry that this is coming off so harshly, but my nephew died from SIDS and it makes me sick to my stomach that there still people out there that don't follow safe sleep practices 100% of the time... especially with other peoples children. You are NEVER the same after you bury a baby
There is a member here who lost a child to SIDS while under the care of a provider. Learning from each other is a beneficial part of this forum.
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TwinKristi 05:52 PM 12-06-2013
Let me clear something up first and foremost that seems to be ASSUMED by those of you replying so negatively.

First, I never have allowed babies to routinely sleep in carseats except when driving, which with childcare has never been more than 45 mins roundtrip.

Second, I have never allowed a baby to sleep unsafely in my care. I don't need to "educate myself" on SIDS or positional asphyxia as I have no need. I don't allow babies to sleep unsafely in my care! My own son is almost 2. I have done enough research over the last 17 years as a parent, and will continue to maintain updated on AAP recommendations, but I know plenty about SIDS and safe sleeping habits.

Third, what I do or don't do with my own children has no baring on my childcare. Being a parent and being a childcare provider are not the same and anecdotal parenting stories and what I do as a provider are two totally different things. As a parent I can smack my child's hand for touching something they shouldn't but I could/would never do that to a daycare child as it's not my place.

Fourth, some of you ladies ARE truly unbelievable. YES. I said it! I have learned many interesting and awesome things on this forum, I have saved several files, gained knowledge from those with many more years of experience than I have, but I have also seen some truly catty and straight up bitchy behavior. It's the teenage mob mentality. One person says something nasty and suddenly everyone has the courage to agree and reply but by themselves they wouldn't do that. Not to mention the whole "keyboard courage" I think many of you have as well. The comments like "Oh title 22 doesn't say kids can't jump off the roof" or "there's no law about cutting grapes in half" crap is just rude. Plain and simple. I'm not stupid.

I don't come on here to have people agree with me. I'm not rallying troops for my defense. While I may be a new member here, I'm not a new member to childcare and have worked in both small and large settings. I have been on the other end of the table as a daycare parent as well. But for anyone to insinuate or accuse me of endangering children/babies is just uncalled for. Me telling the OP that I follow the rule of never waking a sleeping baby did NOT mean I allow infants to just sleep in their infant seats all day in random places around my home. I was trying to be supportive and understanding of the OP. Just like the shower thread, or being legally unlicensed, this has turned into what is and isn't ok for each of us as individual providers, what is ok and legal in Iowa is not the same in Oregon or Texas and vice versa. There are some seriously crappy providers out there who DO endanger children. My own children have been victim of that and I take major offense to anyone even comparing me to anything of the sort. Statistically speaking, a 7 month old asleep in a carseat next to a provider for an hour is less likely to die of SIDS or positional asphyxiation than a 3 month left alone to sleep in a crib. Plain and simple. Babies are about 5x more likely to die in the first 6 months of life from SIDS than in the second 6 months of life. THAT was my point. At 7 mos they've surpassed the prime danger zone. And like the link someone so kindly added, the BIGGEST cause of death in these positional asphyxiation infant deaths had to do with LACK OF SUPERVISION and lack of proper restraints. They were left alone or to sleep in an unsafe place, unsecured. That's hardly comparable to a provider allowing a baby to sleep right next to her for a short period of time. I can understand if it's illegal in your state. By all means, follow the law!
I don't disagree with not allowing babies to sleep in a carseat which is what everyone keeps saying. I don't disagree. But I also don't disagree with what the OP did! Had she said she pops the baby in a crib in the carseat and goes to enjoy her coffee in the kitchen until other kids arrive I may disagree.
This really didn't have to turn out like this. But for some reason some of you feel the need to "school" me as if I have no idea what I'm doing. It's rude and uncalled for. I never said I practiced unsafe sleeping habits so I'm not sure why there was such a huge uproar! Or maybe is it because I didn't agree with the majority?? Hmmm, seems more likely!
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craftymissbeth 06:22 PM 12-06-2013
Normally on this forum if someone disagrees with another user it's fine... no biggie... just move on. But when it comes to someone telling another user their opinion as if it's fact regarding unsafe practices, yes, some of us jump at the opportunity to correct. Some of us look the other way and simply say "do as you feel comfortable".

The reality is, even if the risk of something happening to a 7 month old vs a newborn is lower does NOT mean the risk is not there. The fact that you have convinced yourself that allowing a child to sleep in a car seat for an hour or so is ok as long as they are older than 6 months and it's not a routine thing does show your ignorance on this issue... so, yes, I truly encourage you to educate yourself deeper. And not just by reading facts and studies. Try reading some experience stories written by those who have lost their child or family member to SIDS or positional asphyxiation. The "it won't happen to me" mind set is dangerous.

BTW, no one said anything about your children. I even specifically said to do as you please with your own children, but not the children of others.
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TwinKristi 07:21 PM 12-06-2013
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
Normally on this forum if someone disagrees with another user it's fine... no biggie... just move on. But when it comes to someone telling another user their opinion as if it's fact regarding unsafe practices, yes, some of us jump at the opportunity to correct. Some of us look the other way and simply say "do as you feel comfortable".

The reality is, even if the risk of something happening to a 7 month old vs a newborn is lower does NOT mean the risk is not there. The fact that you have convinced yourself that allowing a child to sleep in a car seat for an hour or so is ok as long as they are older than 6 months and it's not a routine thing does show your ignorance on this issue... so, yes, I truly encourage you to educate yourself deeper. And not just by reading facts and studies. Try reading some experience stories written by those who have lost their child or family member to SIDS or positional asphyxiation. The "it won't happen to me" mind set is dangerous.

BTW, no one said anything about your children. I even specifically said to do as you please with your own children, but not the children of others.
more assuming?!? When did I state anything as fact and not agree to disagree? I just told you I don't leave babies in car seats, where is the risk and ignorance?? I didn't even do this, so simply because I don't disagree I am somehow now some ignorant person? And why do you assume I don't know anyone who's lost a child to SIDS or even read people's experience? How presumptuous of you. There is no it won't happen to me mindset because I didn't do it!!! You are assuming a lot about this and it's completely untrue.
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craftymissbeth 07:39 PM 12-06-2013
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
more assuming?!? When did I state anything as fact and not agree to disagree? I just told you I don't leave babies in car seats, where is the risk and ignorance?? I didn't even do this, so simply because I don't disagree I am somehow now some ignorant person? And why do you assume I don't know anyone who's lost a child to SIDS or even read people's experience? How presumptuous of you. There is no it won't happen to me mindset because I didn't do it!!! You are assuming a lot about this and it's completely untrue.
Stick a fork in me. I am DONE
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Josiegirl 03:19 AM 12-07-2013
This whole thread has been very enlightening and I've learned a lot. I haven't had an infant in several years but will keep this new-found knowledge upfront with my next one. I was always of the 'never wake a sleeping baby' camp but after reading some of the links, etc. I will change my ways.
Off to check out what my regs. say about this, too, because I must have missed it or it's not covered.
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Angelsj 07:57 AM 12-07-2013
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
This whole thread has been very enlightening and I've learned a lot. I haven't had an infant in several years but will keep this new-found knowledge upfront with my next one. I was always of the 'never wake a sleeping baby' camp but after reading some of the links, etc. I will change my ways.
Off to check out what my regs. say about this, too, because I must have missed it or it's not covered.
I am still in the don't wake a sleeping baby camp, but I do see the point of doing a check. I just unwrap her very slowly and gently so she only barely stirs, and slip her into bed. If anything were to be amiss (a bruise or bump) maybe I would not, but I am not going to fully wake her right now.
I think some things can get a little over regulated or over policy-ed. Having a policy that cannot adapt to a child at least a little bit makes me cringe. It is one thing to follow regulations, another to have all these hard lined policies that cannot give.
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Unregistered 09:36 AM 12-07-2013
Originally Posted by NeedaVaca:
Absolutely a 7 month old or even older could die from this. I would never risk their safety, and I'm surprised you are being so nonchalant about this...

This is just one of MANY articles.

http://www.idph.state.ia.us/hcci/com...ositioning.pdf
Here is the thing. Kids/infants can die from ANYTHING. They can die laying down, being on their sides, being in a seat, being in a playpen, from a drop-side crib, from toys, from everything. ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN. The reality is that in BILLIONS OF kids, it doesn't happen often enough to be "causative" so to speak. If 10 kids die a year in a carseat people see that as OMG carseats are dangerous. But when you think of the amount of children that actually exist in that age group that do not die from the same thing, you realize that it's kind of a case-by-case thing. It's not that it's automatically dangerous. For my kids, it was a MUST that they slept in their swing/carseats. For their safety. It's case-by-case. She's not being nonchalant, she's being realistic.


CIP: My family used and passed down a drop down crib for generations. Not one of our children died. We also knew how to properly put it together. The kids taht DID die in the drop side cribs (and ended up banning them altogether) died due to negligence on the parent's part or some sort of mfr defect. When you use something someone else made, you risk that, drop side crib or regular crib or carseat or couch or high chair: Doesn't matter what it is. You take an inherent risk by nature that people are human and machines break and sometimes, people try to sell things with cheap materials. Then you have human error that attribute to things like the drop side crib threat. It has nothing to do with the actual crib itself being dangerous.

If a baby is in the carseat in the car, and you take an hour trip, seriously , you can't just pull off on the freeway to "check" every single time because then you risk your and your child's life being in a dangerous spot on the road.

EVERYTHING you do is a risk and you can't bubble the child forever; taking the child out of a carseat the second they arrive is extreme.

Extreme doesn't get anyone anywhere, honestly, and just makes people paranoid. I was in child care 12 years and some of the new things that have come up...I don't think I could hold a license anymore because the rules are so extreme and unrealistic that it's just inhibiting people from providing NORMAL care anymore. It's just not worth the headaches or the paranoia in my book.

And you know, i just thought of something: Our parents seem to be more paranoid than ever these days......It's probably all the hype they read from the news.
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Unregistered 12:48 PM 12-07-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I never heard that and my own kids HAD to sleep in a seat due to apnea issues. IDK how weird that now they're saying you can't do that???? I can't imagine what kind of liability it would cause?

It has been a number of years since I first opened but I remember shortly after reading about a case where a child was dropped off deceased or nearly deceased in a car seat. Provider believed child to be sleeping and left child be. I don't remember the outcome, but as you can imagine it turned the providers life upside down having to prove this was not of her doing. I remember reading of people taking courses where they were advised not to accept a sleeping child into care without waking them before the parents left to verify there were ok. I forget the exact details, but believe it had something to do with shaken baby or SIDS. Parents panicked and felt dropping child off at daycare would have the possible consequences fall elsewhere.

This isn't the case I was thinking of, but I would not want my family to go through this:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...er-freed_N.htm
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dingledine 02:17 PM 12-07-2013
I understand you being annoyed. Even if child came here asleep in a seat, I'd have to gently take them out, and lay them down in a crib, which would probably awaken them.
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Tags:interruption - sleep, parents - don't cooperate
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