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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Ok, NOW I've Seen It All!
Sugar Magnolia 04:17 PM 07-20-2011
I have a parent who is trying to potty train her 16 month old girl. One day at pick up, she says the girl is signing "peepee", so she takes her to the bathroom, removes her diaper and shoes and stands her up in the bathroom sink. I say "whoa! What are you doing". "She is learning to pee in the sink at home". "Well we can't do that here, no way, that is a handwashing sink and for sanitary reasons, no, no sink peeing here." That was weeks ago. Today, as she is leaving, she goes in the bathroom with the girl. I am busy checking out another child. I open the bathroom door to tell her something and GIRL IS PEEING IN THE SINK! I stopped mid-sentence and just walked away. I was livid and I prefer not to address parents while livid. Omg! She quickly exits the building, I think she knew I was upset. How on earth do I handle this?!? She's been told no. Does she think that I meant that I won't do it but its ok if she (mom) does it? I am mortified. Just mortified. Stunned!!! The only thing I can think of is watch her like a hawk at check out time. She KNOWS how I feel, I made it clear the first time, crystal clear, so.....wwyd?
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sharlan 04:21 PM 07-20-2011
First of all, 16 mos is way too early to master control of her bladder.

Why would she teach her to pee in the sink and not the toilet? I know urine is sterile, but I would be in there with the bleach spray anyways.
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Unregistered 04:27 PM 07-20-2011
And clarify - "No one can pee in the sink ever - not with me, not with you, and I am so sorry I didn't make it clearer. I really thought you understood. "

Then - offer alternatives - agree to learn the sign and take DCG to the potty chair or toilet...

Charge a one time extra cleaning fee for this occasion tonight. (15.00?)

Then tell her this is a termination warning because it violates x,y,z...

But - commend her on the training efforts, and offer to come to a collaboration you CAN handle, or agree to disagree and end care.

EC is so nice if it works.
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Meeko 04:29 PM 07-20-2011
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
I have a parent who is trying to potty train her 16 month old girl. One day at pick up, she says the girl is signing "peepee", so she takes her to the bathroom, removes her diaper and shoes and stands her up in the bathroom sink. I say "whoa! What are you doing". "She is learning to pee in the sink at home". "Well we can't do that here, no way, that is a handwashing sink and for sanitary reasons, no, no sink peeing here." That was weeks ago. Today, as she is leaving, she goes in the bathroom with the girl. I am busy checking out another child. I open the bathroom door to tell her something and GIRL IS PEEING IN THE SINK! I stopped mid-sentence and just walked away. I was livid and I prefer not to address parents while livid. Omg! She quickly exits the building, I think she knew I was upset. How on earth do I handle this?!? She's been told no. Does she think that I meant that I won't do it but its ok if she (mom) does it? I am mortified. Just mortified. Stunned!!! The only thing I can think of is watch her like a hawk at check out time. She KNOWS how I feel, I made it clear the first time, crystal clear, so.....wwyd?
WOW!!!!! That's one of the most ignorant things I've heard of in a loooong time! I would be livid too. I'm livid just reading it!!! She should not get away with you saying nothing.

I think you need to TELL her you are livid. GROSS! Personally, I would honestly be tempted to term over it. She knew you said no and yet she did it anyway. Sooo disrespectful. And talk about unsanitary! If you had not walked in, I doubt very much she would have cleaned and sanitized the sink after. UGH!

She needs to know that she was disrespectful of you, your home, and the safety of the other kids. AND she had already been told no!
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Sugar Magnolia 04:30 PM 07-20-2011
I was so freaked out I cleaned the sink, the papertowel holder, the sink again, the soap bottle, the walls around the sink, the sink handles, the sink again, the step stool, the sink again. I mean, EWWWW! And yes, 16 months is too young.
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Sugar Magnolia 04:35 PM 07-20-2011
Meeko- she DIDN'T clean the sink! She hi-tailed it! There was like dirt from where she took her shoes off when I went in there after she left. It did not look like she attempted to clean it! There's a bottle of sanitizer on a hook out of kids reach by the changing table!
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Meeko 04:40 PM 07-20-2011
[quote=Sugar Magnolia;129418]Meeko- she DIDN'T clean the sink! She hi-tailed it! There was like dirt from where she took her shoes off when I went in there after she left. It did not look like she attempted to clean it! There's a bottle of sanitizer on a hook out of kids reach by the changing table![/QUOTE

I seriously DONT get some of these parents. I would not DREAM of being so rude in another persons home.
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Crazy8 04:45 PM 07-20-2011
That is INSANE!!! And even with sanitary issues aside, WHY on earth would anyone teach a child to pee in a sink and not a toilet??? I mean, eventually they are going to have to make the move to the toilet, no?
I just don't get people. I don't think I would have had the restraint not to go ballistic on her. What is your plan for tomorrow or whenever she comes back??
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Sugar Magnolia 04:57 PM 07-20-2011
Meeko-well its not my home it a center, BUT it as A home (the cutest little historic home on the planet, but I digress)) and I own it, so yeah, you're right, it is kinda my home right? I wouldn't dream of terming, I absolutley adore the child, have not had one single other issue at all, not even remotely, and I really LIKE this mom! I guess that's why I am so floored! Heartbroken, really. Totally grossed out, but heartbroken.
Little Diamonds- you know, I'm not sure I need to say anything. I think by stopping mid sentence, jaw on floor, the look on my face said it all. She looked embarassed too. I will just supervise her with the child in the bathroom, but I seriously doubt she'll try it again. Does that make sense?
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Crazy8 05:00 PM 07-20-2011
yes, it does make sense. I really hope she comes to you in full apology mode though. I don't think I could resist asking WHY on earth that is her method of training. That is just soooo gross!!!!!
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Unregistered 05:06 PM 07-20-2011
Urine is sterile in a healthy person.

Some cultures gargle with it.

The overall health risks including landfill use will be lowered with an early transition.

Elimination Communication is great, but probably not compatible with most daycare home settings. Its a really intimate thing to catch a pee, and thats why diapers were invented...

Mom is doing cloth, too, right? You have a tiny potty in the bathroom, right?

If she can sign to pee, she's ready to do it, but you and mom have to have a joint plan of action.
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MyAngels 05:08 PM 07-20-2011
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
I was so freaked out I cleaned the sink, the papertowel holder, the sink again, the soap bottle, the walls around the sink, the sink handles, the sink again, the step stool, the sink again. I mean, EWWWW! And yes, 16 months is too young.
I can picture this

I would definitely say something to her, but I would handle it in a nice, but firm, way. i.e. - "Apparently there's been a little misunderstanding," yada, yada, yada. I'd address it so I wouldn't have to worry about her slipping in there again, and me not seeing it .

After reading a lot of your posts, it sounds like your daycare is pretty cool, too!
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Cat Herder 05:09 PM 07-20-2011
1. You can have a conference and tell her she is no longer allowed to use those restrooms. (Not easily enforced and probably not worth the drama )

2.You can go the route I had to go after mine were rinsing out cloth diapers/soiled clothing in our sinks AFTER our "teachers" followed the rules and bagged them to send home.

Post signs on the exterior doors of each restroom:

A. "Adult bathrooms are for Adult use only per safety regulation."

B. "Child restrooms are for use by children in rooms ****, *****, and ****." (add in room #'s equipped with pottys).

Then type up a sign to post inside the restroom.

"Parents,

We are held to very high sanitation standards and need parental assistance to adhere to them. This is necessary to be able to continue to have public restrooms available for your convenience.

Please do not allow any child to urinate/defecate in our hand washing sinks.

Please do not rinse out diapers/soiled linens in toilets or sinks. We we will provide you with an appropriate plastic bag for containment upon request.

Thank you so much for your help!!!

Signed, Grossed Out Director"
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Kaddidle Care 05:09 PM 07-20-2011
I would have handed her the cleaner and told her to get busy. I have NEVER heard of starting a child off peeing in the sink! The lady's gone wonky!
How dare she!

And like one of the previous poster's said, she will have to transition to the potty anyway. Why create another step?

(I've never trained dogs on newspaper for the same reason.)
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Sugar Magnolia 05:11 PM 07-20-2011
Originally Posted by LittleDiamonds:
yes, it does make sense. I really hope she comes to you in full apology mode though. I don't think I could resist asking WHY on earth that is her method of training. That is just soooo gross!!!!!
I put this child on the potty. She needs the little insert, but I place her on the potty at least once, sometimes twice a day. She had done one tiny tiny tinkle. I have seen her do the pee-pee sign (and I'm way into baby sign language) but it ALWAYS means "I am wet and need a change". Super. Awesome. She told me the first time why she did the sink thing, but I honestly tuned it out because it was silly, whatever it was. I was just bent on getting across the "no way peeing in the sink here" message across. Don't really care how or what she does at home. But no-pee-sink-at-school was totally communicated.
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nannyde 05:29 PM 07-20-2011
I would just be honest with her and tell her that you can't have urine in the sinks. She's welcome to sit her on the potty when she arrives to pick her up but you can't have her peeing in the sink. You can do it in a way that gives her the option to either go home to do it or use the potty.

I have never even attempted to potty train a kid that young. I don't do sign language with the kids and don't accept any potty indicator other than the WORDS from the child "I have to go potty".

I can't imagine what it would take in a group setting to have an adult THAT engaged to be able to tell the pee "sign" for a sixteen month old in a center. The infant/toddler rooms I watch on camera are REALLY busy. There is hundreds and hundreds of times a day the kids are on the opposite end of the room of the adults and there is SO much traffic in and out of the rooms. To be THAT engaged with a child at that age in that setting would be impossible.

Not to be gross but the pee from the kid isn't going to be as germ filled as what comes off their hands in a wash BUT that's assuming the child is perfectly healthy. Because nondisclosure of illness is SUCH a problem in a paid child care situation, it would be impossible to know on a day to day basis whether or not the peeing kid was sick or not at any given time.
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SilverSabre25 07:37 PM 07-20-2011
Sounds like the mom is doing EC or Elimination Communication. It is actually rather successful and I agree with the pp that said that if the girl is able to sign it she's probably able to do it, at least part of the time.

I've never gotten the sink part of it though. I wouldn't be happy with that either and I'm a pretty crunchy mama.
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PitterPatter 07:37 PM 07-20-2011
OMG I have ver heard of such a thing and I have some ignorant parents! Are they hillbillies or backwoods type people or something? I can't even imagine what I would say but it sure as heck would come out loud and rude because I just know I couldn't help myself. I put up with a lot but that, no way no how!

This reminds me of the scene in Steel Magnolias where M'Lynn says "Oh Weezer, Drum would never point a loaded gun at a lady! And Weezer says "Oh He's a real gentleman! I bet he takes the dishes out of the sink before he PEES in it!
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SilverSabre25 07:47 PM 07-20-2011
Originally Posted by PitterPatter:
OMG I have ver heard of such a thing and I have some ignorant parents! Are they hillbillies or backwoods type people or something?
Probably just the opposite--the super natural, super attachment parenting, super granola/crunchy parents.
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littlemissmuffet 08:48 PM 07-20-2011
Well... the hubs and I just did some serious research and yep - many parents who use EC instead of potty training are fond of holding their littles over the sink to pee and POOP... it appears that Scrubbing Bubbles is the choice cleaner for these folks.

OMG.
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permanentvacation 08:55 PM 07-20-2011
Who in the world pees in a sink?!?!?!? Where did this woman get that idea?!?!?!? I think I would have simply said while in shock something to the effect of "ummmm...... I can't watch your child anymore!" The family is too weird for me! Obviously the parents have different child raising beliefs than I do and there will be too many issues that arrise if I continued watching the child.
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littlemissmuffet 09:02 PM 07-20-2011
http://freetoec.webs.com/mythologyreality.htm


Myth #4: It's unsanitary

One of the most common reactions I get to the pictures of EC is people freaking out about peeing in the sink. This truly amuses me for several reasons:

First, URINE IS STERILE! That means that urine is free of bacteria and bugs that could possibly make you ill. It's unappetizing to think about, but you could drink my baby's urine and would not be made sick from it. But don't just believe me, believe Healthlink: "Normal urine is sterile. It contains fluids, salts, and waste products, but is free of bacteria, viruses, and fungi."

Second, we of course clean and wipe the sink down after each pee. I would be more worried about germs from someone's mouth that spray all over the sink when spitting after brushing your teeth... the mouth actually harbors bacteria, urine does not.

Third, I hate to pop your germ bubble... but unless you put the toliet LID down each time you flush, a fine mist of urine, feces and whatever else was in there gets sprayed all around your bathroom. You put the lid down, you say? But does every person visiting your bathroom? I don't mean to freak you out, but people who are completely calm about handling money, touching public doorknobs, letting their kids hang on to grocery-cart handles etc will have a royal fit about how gross and unsanitary EC is.... can you see me rolling my eyes? ;-)

Fourth, for the people who find the idea of my breast-fed healthy infant peeing in the great outdoors distasteful and unsanitary, I wonder if they have any idea how many animals (and probably people!) have done their business on their own lawn.....

In my experience, this is usually an excuse not to think about EC any further, and to label people who do EC as "primitive" and "unclean".


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Country Kids 09:13 PM 07-20-2011
I've never seen the movie but remember from a preview that the lady in "Baby Mama" or something like that was going to the bathroom in the sink. Immediatly turned me off from wanting to see the movie. Now though after reading this thread I keep picturing this child doing this as an adult!
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Hunni Bee 09:16 PM 07-20-2011
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
http://freetoec.webs.com/mythologyreality.htm


Myth #4: It's unsanitary

One of the most common reactions I get to the pictures of EC is people freaking out about peeing in the sink. This truly amuses me for several reasons:

First, URINE IS STERILE! That means that urine is free of bacteria and bugs that could possibly make you ill. It's unappetizing to think about, but you could drink my baby's urine and would not be made sick from it. But don't just believe me, believe Healthlink: "Normal urine is sterile. It contains fluids, salts, and waste products, but is free of bacteria, viruses, and fungi."

Second, we of course clean and wipe the sink down after each pee. I would be more worried about germs from someone's mouth that spray all over the sink when spitting after brushing your teeth... the mouth actually harbors bacteria, urine does not.

Third, I hate to pop your germ bubble... but unless you put the toliet LID down each time you flush, a fine mist of urine, feces and whatever else was in there gets sprayed all around your bathroom. You put the lid down, you say? But does every person visiting your bathroom? I don't mean to freak you out, but people who are completely calm about handling money, touching public doorknobs, letting their kids hang on to grocery-cart handles etc will have a royal fit about how gross and unsanitary EC is.... can you see me rolling my eyes? ;-)

Fourth, for the people who find the idea of my breast-fed healthy infant peeing in the great outdoors distasteful and unsanitary, I wonder if they have any idea how many animals (and probably people!) have done their business on their own lawn.....

In my experience, this is usually an excuse not to think about EC any further, and to label people who do EC as "primitive" and "unclean".

I....dont....care!!

Just kidding.

But seriously...let them pee in their own sinks. And when little Sarah busts her forehead open from trying to climb up on the sink by herself and pee, or alternately rips the sink from the wall from standing in it....they own that responsibility themselves too...
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mom2many 10:07 PM 07-20-2011
This is seriously bizarre! I would be freaking out if I caught a parent allowing their child to pee in my bathroom sink! I just do not comprehend this...Why in the sink?! Mine is definitely not accessible to a 16 month old and I agree, they'd probably end up injuring themselves climbing up there on their own! This is pure insanity! Just when I think I've heard and seen it all...something new crops up! That is why I love this forum.
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MamaBear 10:21 PM 07-20-2011
YUCK! That is so disgusting!!!!! I think I've heard it all now! Wowzers!
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MissAnn 04:17 AM 07-21-2011
Ok......why the sink? Will she be climbing up on the sink? I'm worried about head concussions! Am I missing something? Why not pee in.....say.....a toilet?
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Meyou 05:10 AM 07-21-2011
I have no problem with EC. I have several friends that practice it and one DCF. However, none of them are allowed to let their children urinate in my sinks. They hold the kids over the toilet if they're here. My EC DCF only practices EC at home...baby wears cloth here.

I don't find the EC gross but I do find the lack of respect to be horrible. I don't care what you do at home...but you don't go to other people's houses or places of business and let your kid pee in a sink. It's pee and it's gross no matter how "sterile" it is.
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CheekyChick 05:33 AM 07-21-2011
I completely understand how you feel... If I were close with the mother, I would feel a bit betrayed.

So... I would write her a little note and hand it to her when she picks up her daughter today. In the note, I would reiterate that she is welcome to put "Jane" on the toilet or potty chair when she picks her up, but that using the sink for elimination is strictly prohibited.
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wdmmom 05:42 AM 07-21-2011
Asking someone to not pee in the sink is like asking people not to throw their diapers in certain trash cans. There's always going to be one nasty that can't/won't follow the rules.

And, to do it AFTER you told her not to?! That's just plain disregard for your policies. I would hand her a warning violation. 3 strikes, you're out!

I also like the idea of handing her the bottle of Clorox Clean-up and some paper towels...have at it or charging the cleaning fee.

Either way, I'd nip that in the bud right away before you find feces in there and/or used toilet paper! Ewww!
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DBug 05:44 AM 07-21-2011
I agree -- why the sink? If it were culturally appropriate to pee in a sink, no problem. But why teach a child to do something that sets them up for failure? Why not hold them over the toilet if you're doing EC?

I'm wondering if it's because it's easier for the parent and doesn't strain their backs??

I have all children that can walk sit on potties, so I totally get training them early. But still -- I use POTTIES.

To OP, I would NOT be letting that mom back in my bathroom .
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Sugar Magnolia 05:48 AM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I would just be honest with her and tell her that you can't have urine in the sinks. She's welcome to sit her on the potty when she arrives to pick her up but you can't have her peeing in the sink. You can do it in a way that gives her the option to either go home to do it or use the potty.

I have never even attempted to potty train a kid that young. I don't do sign language with the kids and don't accept any potty indicator other than the WORDS from the child "I have to go potty".

I can't imagine what it would take in a group setting to have an adult THAT engaged to be able to tell the pee "sign" for a sixteen month old in a center. The infant/toddler rooms I watch on camera are REALLY busy. There is hundreds and hundreds of times a day the kids are on the opposite end of the room of the adults and there is SO much traffic in and out of the rooms. To be THAT engaged with a child at that age in that setting would be impossible.

Not to be gross but the pee from the kid isn't going to be as germ filled as what comes off their hands in a wash BUT that's assuming the child is perfectly healthy. Because nondisclosure of illness is SUCH a problem in a paid child care situation, it would be impossible to know on a day to day basis whether or not the peeing kid was sick or not at any given time.
Yes Nan, I agree with everything you said! I do recognize her signs, I used to work with several deaf people at my last job, and its just a few basic signs, like eat, drink, peepee, poopoo, done. I LOVE the signing and its cool, but like I said, the "peepee" or "poopoo" signs just indicates she needs changed, I NEVER see the sign and she's dry. You're right, no time to go to the potty 15 times a day, I don't and I won't. YES "I have to go" is when I start rushing them to the potty. I will sit her the potty before and after nap, IF she is dry.
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momma2girls 05:49 AM 07-21-2011
This is really disgusting!! You think you have seen and heard it all, til something like this happens!!!
Also place something in your contract about potty training. I added a potty training section to mine about 3 yrs. ago. If anyone wants to see the wording, I would be glad to share it.
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Sugar Magnolia 05:53 AM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by MyAngels:
I can picture this

I would definitely say something to her, but I would handle it in a nice, but firm, way. i.e. - "Apparently there's been a little misunderstanding," yada, yada, yada. I'd address it so I wouldn't have to worry about her slipping in there again, and me not seeing it .

After reading a lot of your posts, it sounds like your daycare is pretty cool, too!
Aw thanks myangels! We are cool, but not THAT cool! LOL!!!!!
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Sugar Magnolia 06:02 AM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by SilverSabre25:
Probably just the opposite--the super natural, super attachment parenting, super granola/crunchy parents.
You called it Siver, super crunchy, 'nough said. I'm pretty hippy child too, and I am open to a lot of ideas. Sink peeing, nope. Again, GREAT for mom, at home. Not here.
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Sugar Magnolia 06:09 AM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
Well... the hubs and I just did some serious research and yep - many parents who use EC instead of potty training are fond of holding their littles over the sink to pee and POOP... it appears that Scrubbing Bubbles is the choice cleaner for these folks.

OMG.
Poop? Holy cow! To the "urine is sterile" folks, what if poop happens while peeing in a sink? What about her feet in the sink? Its NOT appropriate in a child care setting!
YES safety is a huge issue as well! No child is in there alone, but the thought of her trying to climb in a sink is a liability nightmare!
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SilverSabre25 06:11 AM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
You called it Siver, super crunchy, 'nough said. I'm pretty hippy child too, and I am open to a lot of ideas. Sink peeing, nope. Again, GREAT for mom, at home. Not here.
yeah i have never understood that aspect of ec'ing...it makes no sense to me.

but then, while i consider myself crunchy, i'm fairly middle of the road--and i'm pretty sure that many of the ubercrunchy types i know consider me practically mainstream.
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wdmmom 06:14 AM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
Poop? Holy cow! To the "urine is sterile" folks, what if poop happens while peeing in a sink? What about her feet in the sink? Its NOT appropriate in a child care setting!
YES safety is a huge issue as well! No child is in there alone, but the thought of her trying to climb in a sink is a liability nightmare!
It just sicks me out! The thought of picking up something from a sink! Yuck!

Are they going to hold their child over the sink at the local supermarket?! What if no one sees?! Does that mean the next person could potentially walk away with some sort of bacteria, pink eye, or even worse...e-coli?!
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nannyde 06:18 AM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
Yes Nan, I agree with everything you said! I do recognize her signs, I used to work with several deaf people at my last job, and its just a few basic signs, like eat, drink, peepee, poopoo, done. I LOVE the signing and its cool, but like I said, the "peepee" or "poopoo" signs just indicates she needs changed, I NEVER see the sign and she's dry. You're right, no time to go to the potty 15 times a day, I don't and I won't. YES "I have to go" is when I start rushing them to the potty. I will sit her the potty before and after nap, IF she is dry.
So when you see the sign and you see she is wet... do you think she JUST went. The odds are going to be that she's wet at any given time.

Do you change her... and then within a few minutes see the sign that she is wet?
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Sugar Magnolia 06:29 AM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
So when you see the sign and you see she is wet... do you think she JUST went. The odds are going to be that she's wet at any given time.

Do you change her... and then within a few minutes see the sign that she is wet?
Yes, when I see the sign, she usually is freshly wet. I change her ASAP, within a few minutes because they are cloth diapers and I don't like the smell of pee or the prospect of cleaning up leaks. I NEVER see the sign when she is dry, ALWAYS after the fact.
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Country Kids 06:32 AM 07-21-2011
What is EC?
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Sugar Magnolia 06:44 AM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
What is EC?
"Elimination Communication" or "extremely complicated" or "exceptionally creepy"
But in all seriousness, its a nice concept, esp the signing part, but is a tactic best left at HOME. I am ALL FOR working with parents on potty training, emphasis on the word "potty". But she's too young to control her bladder, but NOT too young to sign to me she's wet.
I don't think I need to speak to mom again. My look of sheer "OMG!" was enough, I hope, considering she was told "no" in no uncertain terms.
Thanks everyone! I was pretty sure I wasn't crazy for being freaked out.
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Country Kids 07:09 AM 07-21-2011
Does anyone here sign with their children in care? I have had a couple that the parents signed but I have them in my care at about 2 years and up. I figure by that time the child should be learning to talk. I also found it frustrating because if the child was signing I had no idea what they were saying. That was another frustration with signing because our kindergartens at our school learn basic sign. Well that is great if the person being signed to understands it. I wonder if that will become one of our mandatory classes to take in the future because alot of people are doing it with their children.
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familyschoolcare 07:10 AM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
http://freetoec.webs.com/mythologyreality.htm


Myth #4: It's unsanitary

One of the most common reactions I get to the pictures of EC is people freaking out about peeing in the sink. This truly amuses me for several reasons:

First, URINE IS STERILE! That means that urine is free of bacteria and bugs that could possibly make you ill. It's unappetizing to think about, but you could drink my baby's urine and would not be made sick from it. But don't just believe me, believe Healthlink: "Normal urine is sterile. It contains fluids, salts, and waste products, but is free of bacteria, viruses, and fungi."

Second, we of course clean and wipe the sink down after each pee. I would be more worried about germs from someone's mouth that spray all over the sink when spitting after brushing your teeth... the mouth actually harbors bacteria, urine does not.

Third, I hate to pop your germ bubble... but unless you put the toliet LID down each time you flush, a fine mist of urine, feces and whatever else was in there gets sprayed all around your bathroom. You put the lid down, you say? But does every person visiting your bathroom? I don't mean to freak you out, but people who are completely calm about handling money, touching public doorknobs, letting their kids hang on to grocery-cart handles etc will have a royal fit about how gross and unsanitary EC is.... can you see me rolling my eyes? ;-)

Fourth, for the people who find the idea of my breast-fed healthy infant peeing in the great outdoors distasteful and unsanitary, I wonder if they have any idea how many animals (and probably people!) have done their business on their own lawn.....

In my experience, this is usually an excuse not to think about EC any further, and to label people who do EC as "primitive" and "unclean".

I would not allow it in my house because it is not socially acceptable that is the same reason i do not appreciate other people children pee in public.

That is how I would approach ti the mother that I can not allow it in my house for several reasons the biggest being that it is not socially acceptable and as a role model for the young children I need to sit a good example. The if the parent tried to discuss how there is nothing wrong with it pee is sterile etc. I would just say that is not the point it is socially unacceptable in the United States of America.
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PitterPatter 07:16 AM 07-21-2011
Everyone has a right to their own opinion with this "EC" BUT let me ask 1 question please IF u do allow it and are all for it... What happens when the child has to poop? Do u clean that out too or try to stop it and run them to the nearest toilet? Also this allowance of peeing in the sink would just confuse a child in my opinion. They are taught it's ok then I ASSUNME are retrained to later pee in the toilet? Confusing for the poor child in my opinion. Also back to the pooing, again confusing because how do u tell them not to poo there just pee there and run to poo in a toilet when it's coming right behind the pee... Also taking into consideration the possibility of injury from them scaling the counter to get to the sink. Then we have the possible future issues if they pee in a friends sink or school in kindergarten... Just an unnecessary and confusing situation I think. Just MY opinion here.
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momma4many 07:30 AM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
Does anyone here sign with their children in care? I have had a couple that the parents signed but I have them in my care at about 2 years and up. I figure by that time the child should be learning to talk. I also found it frustrating because if the child was signing I had no idea what they were saying. That was another frustration with signing because our kindergartens at our school learn basic sign. Well that is great if the person being signed to understands it. I wonder if that will become one of our mandatory classes to take in the future because alot of people are doing it with their children.
Yep, we do a "sign of the week". The kids all like it and the parents seem to as well. The kids don't know enough signs for it to replace talking by any means and some parents feel it's beneficial for many reasons.

Also, as someone who is hearing impared, I like being able to talk to my own children this way. I can hear, just not very well, so if they are across the room or something, it's easier for me to see thier hands rather than their lips.
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SandeeAR 07:38 AM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
Does anyone here sign with their children in care? I have had a couple that the parents signed but I have them in my care at about 2 years and up. I figure by that time the child should be learning to talk. I also found it frustrating because if the child was signing I had no idea what they were saying. That was another frustration with signing because our kindergartens at our school learn basic sign. Well that is great if the person being signed to understands it. I wonder if that will become one of our mandatory classes to take in the future because alot of people are doing it with their children.
Thought you might like this site. It is an American Sign Language Dictionary

http://www.aslpro.com/cgi-bin/aslpro/aslpro.cgi
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countrymom 07:47 AM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by PitterPatter:
Everyone has a right to their own opinion with this "EC" BUT let me ask 1 question please IF u do allow it and are all for it... What happens when the child has to poop? Do u clean that out too or try to stop it and run them to the nearest toilet? Also this allowance of peeing in the sink would just confuse a child in my opinion. They are taught it's ok then I ASSUNME are retrained to later pee in the toilet? Confusing for the poor child in my opinion. Also back to the pooing, again confusing because how do u tell them not to poo there just pee there and run to poo in a toilet when it's coming right behind the pee... Also taking into consideration the possibility of injury from them scaling the counter to get to the sink. Then we have the possible future issues if they pee in a friends sink or school in kindergarten... Just an unnecessary and confusing situation I think. Just MY opinion here.
you read my mind. Theres and time and place for everything, and this isn't one of them.
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Sugar Magnolia 07:54 AM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by momma4many:
Yep, we do a "sign of the week". The kids all like it and the parents seem to as well. The kids don't know enough signs for it to replace talking by any means and some parents feel it's beneficial for many reasons.

Also, as someone who is hearing impared, I like being able to talk to my own children this way. I can hear, just not very well, so if they are across the room or something, it's easier for me to see thier hands rather than their lips.
I am hearing impaired also!!!
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SilverSabre25 07:54 AM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
Does anyone here sign with their children in care? I have had a couple that the parents signed but I have them in my care at about 2 years and up. I figure by that time the child should be learning to talk. I also found it frustrating because if the child was signing I had no idea what they were saying. That was another frustration with signing because our kindergartens at our school learn basic sign. Well that is great if the person being signed to understands it. I wonder if that will become one of our mandatory classes to take in the future because alot of people are doing it with their children.
Yes, I sign with my own children and with the children in my care. Signing DOES help them learn to talk, because you are teaching the (verbal) word along with the signed one at the same time. Children are able to communicate from a much younger age when using sign than they can without the signs. This helps eliminate a lot of frustration for the child, and children who sign with their parents/care givers often display MUCH less of the typical "terrible two" behavior.

The Signing Time DVDs and Baby Signing Time DVDs are the best resource, IMO for learning the signs yourself and teaching the signs to babies and children. Of course, once you know lots of signs, you can just teach them through usage. IME you never have to sit down and say, "This is the sign for [word]!" It works really well to just use the signs in normal conversation and they pick them right up.

Another thought to consider is that kinesthetic learners probably learn to speak faster with the addition of a sign, a motion, along with the word. My kinesthetic DD had 20 signs at 12 months and 100 signs at 18 months, along with 5 words at 12 months and 50 at 18 months, and well over 100 words by 20 months. She STILL uses the signs along with the words a lot of the time and she is 3.5. She still remembers signs that we rarely ever used, like the sign for "Deer" and she uses them in context.

Signing is awesome.
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momofboys 08:38 AM 07-21-2011
I am sure someone else asked this but WHY the sink? Why wouldn't you teach over a toilet or toddler potty seat? And what about #2? I am not okay with pee in my sink but I certainly would not be okay with #2 in my SINK!
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Unregistered 12:34 PM 07-21-2011
I want to address the comment about urine being sterile. From what I understand, urine is sterile if it hasn't left the body and as long as there is no infection (like a UTI).

I have an aquaintance who said that she would start toilet training her next child during infancy so that her child would be on a schedule. I can't even begin to understand how that works. She had been told that it worked by a friend of hers and she was sold on the idea.

I just think that potty training before a child ready is a potential disaster.
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Sugar Magnolia 11:11 AM 08-30-2011
Well mom went elsewhere. I thought you home daycare ladies would find her reasoning amusing. "We are going to a home daycare because they will allow her to pee in the sink. The lady does not see a problem with my expectation that she will be potty trained fully by age 18 months. She only has 6 children in her care, so it will be easy for her to take her to the sink every 30 mins or so. All of her DCK's are under three."

ok, new provider, good luck with that!
How many of you would allow sink peeing? How many of you would promise to have a baby fully potty trained before 18 months? How many moms out there would want your child seeing another child being held over a sink to pee? Who out there wants the liability when someone falls out of a sink and busts their head open on a tile floor, all because a kooky mom demanded sink peeing?
NOT ME!!! Good ridance. Feel sorry for that new lady. I really really liked the little girl, she was soooo sweet, but mom with her flaky ideas and uber-demanding requests is NOT missed.
Lessons learned: no cloth diapers, no attempting to sit non-verbal children on a potty. And just say "you are termed" the FIRST time you catch a mother putting her child in your sink, letting her pee in it, and not bothering to clean the sink. GROSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All the "urine is sanitary" types are not welcomed in my center, do that junk at home!
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safechner 11:18 AM 08-30-2011
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
Well mom went elsewhere. I thought you home daycare ladies would find her reasoning amusing. "We are going to a home daycare because they will allow her to pee in the sink. The lady does not see a problem with my expectation that she will be potty trained fully by age 18 months. She only has 6 children in her care, so it will be easy for her to take her to the sink every 30 mins or so. All of her DCK's are under three."

ok, new provider, good luck with that!
How many of you would allow sink peeing? How many of you would promise to have a baby fully potty trained before 18 months? How many moms out there would want your child seeing another child being held over a sink to pee? Who out there wants the liability when someone falls out of a sink and busts their head open on a tile floor, all because a kooky mom demanded sink peeing?
NOT ME!!! Good ridance. Feel sorry for that new lady. I really really liked the little girl, she was soooo sweet, but mom with her flaky ideas and uber-demanding requests is NOT missed.
Lessons learned: no cloth diapers, no attempting to sit non-verbal children on a potty. And just say "you are termed" the FIRST time you catch a mother putting her child in your sink, letting her pee in it, and not bothering to clean the sink. GROSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All the "urine is sanitary" types are not welcomed in my center, do that junk at home!
Heck No! Not in my house at all! I think her new provider is lying about this because there is NO way the kids can be a full potty trained by 18 months old. I am pretty sure she probably will take her in the potty, not sink, who knows.
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AnneCordelia 12:04 PM 08-30-2011
HDCP here and I would not allow that. I have 4 children in care...all under age 3...and would NOT have the time nor patience to potty train a 16 month old in my SINK.
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godiva83 01:17 PM 08-30-2011
Okay,a
the thought of pering in my sink made me giggle a little bit. Sure, if that is the norm and status quo of your society go for it. But in most Western societies it is not the so called norm, just use a toilet, teach your child to use a toilet and at your own home pee in your sink, garden or wherever you so choose. Also, she was Asked not to do so, what is with people?
Secondly, IMO just because a child sign she has to use the washroom does not mean she is ready, she is getting ready but not there YET. I feel they need to be able to communicate the need, remove their pants, sit on the toilet (not sink) with little assistance as these are mandatory skills in order to use the washroom properly
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sharlan 01:26 PM 08-30-2011
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
Well mom went elsewhere. I thought you home daycare ladies would find her reasoning amusing. "We are going to a home daycare because they will allow her to pee in the sink. The lady does not see a problem with my expectation that she will be potty trained fully by age 18 months. She only has 6 children in her care, so it will be easy for her to take her to the sink every 30 mins or so. All of her DCK's are under three."

ok, new provider, good luck with that!
How many of you would allow sink peeing? How many of you would promise to have a baby fully potty trained before 18 months? How many moms out there would want your child seeing another child being held over a sink to pee? Who out there wants the liability when someone falls out of a sink and busts their head open on a tile floor, all because a kooky mom demanded sink peeing?
NOT ME!!! Good ridance. Feel sorry for that new lady. I really really liked the little girl, she was soooo sweet, but mom with her flaky ideas and uber-demanding requests is NOT missed.
Lessons learned: no cloth diapers, no attempting to sit non-verbal children on a potty. And just say "you are termed" the FIRST time you catch a mother putting her child in your sink, letting her pee in it, and not bothering to clean the sink. GROSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All the "urine is sanitary" types are not welcomed in my center, do that junk at home!


Urine is sterile WHEN it leaves the body. It's no longer sterile once it hits the sink, toilet, or floor. I am not willingly going to let a child pee in my sink, all over my toilet, or on the floor. I would say good riddance.
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sharlan 01:31 PM 08-30-2011
Originally Posted by safechner:
Heck No! Not in my house at all! I think her new provider is lying about this because there is NO way the kids can be a full potty trained by 18 months old. I am pretty sure she probably will take her in the potty, not sink, who knows.
Both of my daughters were potty trained during the day by 18 mos, both in panties full time. BUT, and I say a big BUT, they were both bed wetters. My eldest stopped at 4, but my youngest still had night time accidents until she was about 8. Two different urologists told me that it was because they were potty trained too early. One urologist told me that no potty training should be attempted before the 2nd birthday.
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harperluu 01:48 PM 08-30-2011
I'd just mention that you left the hand soap on the floor for her to wash her hands in the toilet.

So odd.
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JenNJ 02:53 PM 08-30-2011
1. Pee may be sterile but I still don't want people peeing in my sinks. It's the same reason I don't swim in toilets. I prefer pools filled with water.

2. The provider said no peeing in the sink. That is the rule. Parent broke rule. Grounds for termination. Parent can do whatever she pleases at home. In daycare, she needs to follow the rules. What she did was disrespectful.

3. It is dangerous. Sinks are not made for supporting weight. Toilets are. If the child was dropped or fell, you can bet the parent would go after the provider's insurance.

4. Maintenance. I would not want to repaint my walls frequently because of splattering urine in the sink area or clean around the faucet area several times per day. It would eventually lead to a smell in the bathroom no matter how often it was cleaned. Toilets are designed to hold and flush away waste. Bathroom sinks are not.

5. I teach manners in my daycare. Children begin clearing their dishes from the table as young as 16 months here. Pleases, thank yous, excuse mes, and the like are said frequently. We are taught normal social boundaries. Pissing in a sink is not normal and it is not good manners.
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Kaddidle Care 04:06 PM 08-30-2011
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
Well mom went elsewhere. I thought you home daycare ladies would find her reasoning amusing. "We are going to a home daycare because they will allow her to pee in the sink. The lady does not see a problem with my expectation that she will be potty trained fully by age 18 months. She only has 6 children in her care, so it will be easy for her to take her to the sink every 30 mins or so. All of her DCK's are under three."

ok, new provider, good luck with that!
Ooooooh the EASY button! My response would have been "mmmm yeah, good luck with that."

She found someone that is willing to tell her what she wants to hear. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in 2 months when that child is NOT potty trained.

Bye, bye weird Mom, sorry sweet child.

I potty trained a child in a month - but he was 3 1/2, ready and I was his only caregiver. I am also his Mom.
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Tags:cleanliness policy, entitlement, unreasonable parental expectations, weirdness
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