Daycare.com Forum
Parents and Guardians Forum>How Many Kids Is Too Many
lfeseab 08:01 AM 08-14-2013
I take my children to a licensed daycare home in Illinois. When we first interviewed she informed me that she had 8 children. She has an assistant over the age of 18. Since we started I've noticed that there are more and more kids. Currently she has 12 under school age. 3 of the 12 are grandchildren. She has 4 that are starting school this year, but she has 3 new babies starting this fall as well. The 4 starting school will be under her care before and after school. From what I can tell from the code "a caregiver and an assitant 18 years of age or older may care for: Eight children under 5 years of age of which up to 5 children may be under 24 months of age, and 4 additional children who are attending school fulltime. She just went through her re-licensing this spring. Am I missing something here? How can she have so many kids. I'm wanting to pull my two if she is not in compliance but I don't want to be overacting if she is in compliance.
Blackcat31 08:14 AM 08-14-2013
Here are the ratio's for your state; https://www.daycare.com/illinois/
For family care it says;
"Maximum provider/child ratio is (1:12), which includes providers own children under age 12, and with no more than 6 children under age 5 and no more than 3 under 30 months ; OR a school age group consisting of 8 school age children."I have no idea if a providers own children (or grand children) count in the ratios or not.
Hope that helps.
For family care it says;
"Maximum provider/child ratio is (1:12), which includes providers own children under age 12, and with no more than 6 children under age 5 and no more than 3 under 30 months ; OR a school age group consisting of 8 school age children."I have no idea if a providers own children (or grand children) count in the ratios or not.
Hope that helps.
Angelsj 09:46 AM 08-14-2013
Your own comfort level is important as well. Do a drop in. (be prepared to take your kids with you when you leave.)
What feel do you get in the group?
I have known providers who can easily handle 12-14 kids and be calm, controlled and in charge, while still being loving and caring. They know the kids and understand their own limitations, and can balance the ages/temperaments of their group.
I have known others who cannot do that with 3-4.
Ratios and laws are important, but even more so is how you feel she and her assistant interact with the kids. She may be in ratio, but if you are uncomfortable with how she manages this, you may need to have a discussion with her and/or pull your children.
What feel do you get in the group?
I have known providers who can easily handle 12-14 kids and be calm, controlled and in charge, while still being loving and caring. They know the kids and understand their own limitations, and can balance the ages/temperaments of their group.
I have known others who cannot do that with 3-4.
Ratios and laws are important, but even more so is how you feel she and her assistant interact with the kids. She may be in ratio, but if you are uncomfortable with how she manages this, you may need to have a discussion with her and/or pull your children.
MrsSteinel'sHouse 10:16 AM 08-14-2013
That seems confusing to me. 12 total for one person seems high (in Ohio it is 6 , type A 2 people can be 12) especially with little ones. I would call licensing to find out numbers exactly with a mixed group.
If you feel uncomfortable, I would make a visit but as it was said earlier be prepared to take your children home. Not only if your not happy but also it is disruptive if the child thinks they are being picked up early and they are not!
If you feel uncomfortable, I would make a visit but as it was said earlier be prepared to take your children home. Not only if your not happy but also it is disruptive if the child thinks they are being picked up early and they are not!
Blackcat31 10:36 AM 08-14-2013
Originally Posted by MrsSteinel'sHouse:
That seems confusing to me. 12 total for one person seems high (in Ohio it is 6 , type A 2 people can be 12) especially with little ones. I would call licensing to find out numbers exactly with a mixed group.
If you feel uncomfortable, I would make a visit but as it was said earlier be prepared to take your children home. Not only if your not happy but also it is disruptive if the child thinks they are being picked up early and they are not!
I currently have 12. 10 under school age (no more than 2 under 2). The two school age kids I have are school eligible but did not attend this year (both have summer birthdays)That seems confusing to me. 12 total for one person seems high (in Ohio it is 6 , type A 2 people can be 12) especially with little ones. I would call licensing to find out numbers exactly with a mixed group.
If you feel uncomfortable, I would make a visit but as it was said earlier be prepared to take your children home. Not only if your not happy but also it is disruptive if the child thinks they are being picked up early and they are not!
Otherwise, I have 10 ALL under school age and all by myself. Other than lunch when DH comes in and gives me a hand. NOT because licensing requires it but because he can.
Angelsj 10:43 AM 08-14-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I currently have 12. 10 under school age (no more than 2 under 2). The two school age kids I have are school eligible but did not attend this year (both have summer birthdays)
Otherwise, I have 10 ALL under school age and all by myself. Other than lunch when DH comes in and gives me a hand. NOT because licensing requires it but because he can.
I can do this as well. I have been in positions (when I was younger, I would not do this now) where I had 13-15 kids, 5 and under, and did it easily with no stress. I think some people are just made to deal with kids, even in large groups, and others just are not. I currently have 12. 10 under school age (no more than 2 under 2). The two school age kids I have are school eligible but did not attend this year (both have summer birthdays)
Otherwise, I have 10 ALL under school age and all by myself. Other than lunch when DH comes in and gives me a hand. NOT because licensing requires it but because he can.
Even now, I can handle 10 or so without breaking a sweat.
You are lucky though. My Dh can't even be near us when there are that many...lol. He gets all stressed at about 3 kids.
Cradle2crayons 10:45 AM 08-14-2013
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
I can do this as well. I have been in positions (when I was younger, I would not do this now) where I had 13-15 kids, 5 and under, and did it easily with no stress. I think some people are just made to deal with kids, even in large groups, and others just are not.
Even now, I can handle 10 or so without breaking a sweat.
You are lucky though. My Dh can't even be near us when there are that many...lol. He gets all stressed at about 3 kids.
Lol my husband works out of state for minimum of two weeks a month, sometimes all month. But you can bet if I have my two and all five daycare kids and its a school holiday... He'll find a reason to work that extra day lol. Kidding, sort. Of. Haha.I can do this as well. I have been in positions (when I was younger, I would not do this now) where I had 13-15 kids, 5 and under, and did it easily with no stress. I think some people are just made to deal with kids, even in large groups, and others just are not.
Even now, I can handle 10 or so without breaking a sweat.
You are lucky though. My Dh can't even be near us when there are that many...lol. He gets all stressed at about 3 kids.
When he's home and I'm loaded he will find all kinds of things he needs to do outside lol
Angelsj 10:49 AM 08-14-2013
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
When he's home and I'm loaded he will find all kinds of things he needs to do outside lol
Exactly...funny how they suddenly need to go work...anywhere but where we are. When he's home and I'm loaded he will find all kinds of things he needs to do outside lol
Cradle2crayons 10:50 AM 08-14-2013
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
Exactly...funny how they suddenly need to go work...anywhere but where we are.
I know right. I mean how many times in one day can you rinse the pool filter??Exactly...funny how they suddenly need to go work...anywhere but where we are.
EntropyControlSpecialist 10:55 AM 08-14-2013
Originally Posted by MrsSteinel'sHouse:
That seems confusing to me. 12 total for one person seems high (in Ohio it is 6 , type A 2 people can be 12) especially with little ones. I would call licensing to find out numbers exactly with a mixed group.
If you feel uncomfortable, I would make a visit but as it was said earlier be prepared to take your children home. Not only if your not happy but also it is disruptive if the child thinks they are being picked up early and they are not!
I can have 12 by myself. I currently have 8 and will soon have a baby.That seems confusing to me. 12 total for one person seems high (in Ohio it is 6 , type A 2 people can be 12) especially with little ones. I would call licensing to find out numbers exactly with a mixed group.
If you feel uncomfortable, I would make a visit but as it was said earlier be prepared to take your children home. Not only if your not happy but also it is disruptive if the child thinks they are being picked up early and they are not!
I can have 8 children 18 mos.-3 and 4 children 4+.
Once my baby is born, she takes up 2 spots. I can have baby, 6 children 18 mos.-3 and 4 children 4+.
If I have an assistant, I can have 12 children ages 18 months+, an equal mixture (2 that are babies/10 that are 18 mos.+, 9 that are babies/3 that are 18 mos.+, etc.) equaling 12 children, or if I wanted to have all babies I could have 10 children 17 months of age and younger.
Cradle2crayons 11:00 AM 08-14-2013
From what I've read about illinois.... 12 max per provider. That includes her three grand kids. The op stated there were two adults or providers... So if there are twelve kids their current ratio is only 1:6 or 2:12 so she sounds legal to me. From their licensing regs she could have double that with two providers there.
But to be sure op, call yourmlocal licensing authority and ask.
But to be sure op, call yourmlocal licensing authority and ask.
MrsSteinel'sHouse 11:12 AM 08-14-2013
Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist:
I can have 12 by myself. I currently have 8 and will soon have a baby.
I can have 8 children 18 mos.-3 and 4 children 4+.
Once my baby is born, she takes up 2 spots. I can have baby, 6 children 18 mos.-3 and 4 children 4+.
If I have an assistant, I can have 12 children ages 18 months+, an equal mixture (2 that are babies/10 that are 18 mos.+, 9 that are babies/3 that are 18 mos.+, etc.) equaling 12 children, or if I wanted to have all babies I could have 10 children 17 months of age and younger.
WoW! I personally think that is a high ratio. I wish ohio allowed an extra school age child to the 6 but I wouldn't want more than that everyday. I think that realistically especially with young ones, a lower ratio is better. When you look up "ideal child provider ratio" the Child Development Council says no more that 7-8 children per one adult. The American Pediatric's says 1 adult with 3 under two. "There must be a sufficient number of adults for the number of children. Galinsky and Phillips (1989) recommend a ratio of at least one adult for every three to four infants and an adult for every four to six children under three. The recommended ratio for three to five year old children is one adult for every ten children and one to twelve for school-age children (Kostelnik, Soderman, & Whiren, 1993). The study *Cost, Quality and Child Outcomes in Child Care Centers* found that centers with low child-staff ratios were seen as providing higher quality care" I can have 12 by myself. I currently have 8 and will soon have a baby.
I can have 8 children 18 mos.-3 and 4 children 4+.
Once my baby is born, she takes up 2 spots. I can have baby, 6 children 18 mos.-3 and 4 children 4+.
If I have an assistant, I can have 12 children ages 18 months+, an equal mixture (2 that are babies/10 that are 18 mos.+, 9 that are babies/3 that are 18 mos.+, etc.) equaling 12 children, or if I wanted to have all babies I could have 10 children 17 months of age and younger.
Most of the studies break apart by age and don't give a mixed group.
Here this might be helpful-
http://www.familymanagement.com/chil...practices.html
the maximum with the older children is 1:8. So, as a parent, even if it is legal, it is up to you to decide if you want a provider with more than the recommended for 4-6 yr olds or look for a provider with a lower ratio.
Blackcat31 11:30 AM 08-14-2013
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
I can do this as well. I have been in positions (when I was younger, I would not do this now) where I had 13-15 kids, 5 and under, and did it easily with no stress. I think some people are just made to deal with kids, even in large groups, and others just are not.
Even now, I can handle 10 or so without breaking a sweat.
You are lucky though. My Dh can't even be near us when there are that many...lol. He gets all stressed at about 3 kids.
My DH is the 4th of 5 boys (all his brothers are within 1-1.5 yrs of one another) and he grew up with his own mother running a childcare out of their home 24/7. So he is pretty used to kids and noise and chaos....I can do this as well. I have been in positions (when I was younger, I would not do this now) where I had 13-15 kids, 5 and under, and did it easily with no stress. I think some people are just made to deal with kids, even in large groups, and others just are not.
Even now, I can handle 10 or so without breaking a sweat.
You are lucky though. My Dh can't even be near us when there are that many...lol. He gets all stressed at about 3 kids.
Plus he works alone all day in the wood shop so I think ANY human interaction (even drooling) is a welcome change
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You are also spot on about the large group and age... When I first opened I easily had multiple kids, drop offs, pick ups and lots of varying schedules in a day.
Now, I have to have all full time kids on a regular basis and some sort of order, structure and/ or routine or I don't do as well anymore.
Sunchimes 11:41 AM 08-14-2013
In Texas, I am a listed home (called legally unlicensed in some places.) I can have 3 unrelated kids. I can have 12 if 9 of them are related. I'm not clear on why I am only able to care for 3, but considered safe for 12 if they are kin. The definition is pretty broad too-kids, grandkids, nieces, nephews, and cousins. Too bad none of my family lives nearby or I could make some decent money.
lfeseab 12:20 PM 08-14-2013
Thanks everyone for your input. I might call the local licensing just so I know what the regs are. I don't doubt her ability to care for that many.... we've thought she is wonderful. I'm more concerned with safety and space issues. At what point is her limit for not accepting any more.
Familycare71 02:22 PM 08-14-2013
Originally Posted by lfeseab:
Thanks everyone for your input. I might call the local licensing just so I know what the regs are. I don't doubt her ability to care for that many.... we've thought she is wonderful. I'm more concerned with safety and space issues. At what point is her limit for not accepting any more.
Also- you could talk to her. Explain that you really like having your child there but because the number of kids had increased so much you were wondering what the max she takes at any one time.Thanks everyone for your input. I might call the local licensing just so I know what the regs are. I don't doubt her ability to care for that many.... we've thought she is wonderful. I'm more concerned with safety and space issues. At what point is her limit for not accepting any more.
If you are worried about space ask her how she does it- I can't imagine she would mind showing you the set up(loss after dc hours and with some notice). I can care for up to 8 (two school age) and some parents can't imagine- but it is second hat to me
MyAngels 07:17 PM 08-14-2013
The rules for Illinois licensed daycare homes can be very confusing:
b) A caregiver alone may care for:
1) A mixed age group consisting of:
A) Up to 8 children under the age of 12, of which
B) Up to 5 children may be under the age of 5, of which
C) Up to 3 children may be under 24 months of age.
2) A mixed age group consisting of:
A) Up to 8 children under the age of 12, of which
B) Up to 6 children may be under the age of 5, of which
C) Up to 2 children may be under 30 months of age.
3) A school age group consisting of 8 school age children, as defined in Section 406.2.
and then:
d) A caregiver and an assistant 18 years of age or older may care for:
1) The groupings in subsection (b), and 4 additional children who are attending school full-time; or
2) Eight children under 5 years of age of which up to 5 children may be under
24 months of age, and 4 additional children who are attending school fulltime.
You can find this information here: http://www.ilga.gov/commission/jcar/...60000130R.html
Her grandchildren are included in her numbers.
b) A caregiver alone may care for:
1) A mixed age group consisting of:
A) Up to 8 children under the age of 12, of which
B) Up to 5 children may be under the age of 5, of which
C) Up to 3 children may be under 24 months of age.
2) A mixed age group consisting of:
A) Up to 8 children under the age of 12, of which
B) Up to 6 children may be under the age of 5, of which
C) Up to 2 children may be under 30 months of age.
3) A school age group consisting of 8 school age children, as defined in Section 406.2.
and then:
d) A caregiver and an assistant 18 years of age or older may care for:
1) The groupings in subsection (b), and 4 additional children who are attending school full-time; or
2) Eight children under 5 years of age of which up to 5 children may be under
24 months of age, and 4 additional children who are attending school fulltime.
You can find this information here: http://www.ilga.gov/commission/jcar/...60000130R.html
Her grandchildren are included in her numbers.
spinnymarie 11:49 AM 09-11-2013
I see this is oldish, but:
IL has two separate types of daycare homes - group homes and family homes.
Since you said she just recently went through licensing again, I think it would be safe to assume that she now has a group home license, which the max is 12 kids under 6 with an assistant (which you said she has.) The other (much quoted in this thread) 8 kids are for the other type of home, a family home, which you can probably assume is what she had before.
Her license has to be posted somewhere in the home, but I don't think there's any harm in just asking her if she changed her license since you noticed there are now more kids in attendance.
IL has two separate types of daycare homes - group homes and family homes.
Since you said she just recently went through licensing again, I think it would be safe to assume that she now has a group home license, which the max is 12 kids under 6 with an assistant (which you said she has.) The other (much quoted in this thread) 8 kids are for the other type of home, a family home, which you can probably assume is what she had before.
Her license has to be posted somewhere in the home, but I don't think there's any harm in just asking her if she changed her license since you noticed there are now more kids in attendance.