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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>DCM Needs Honest Thoughts Please
Bluebird1 06:48 PM 11-11-2015
Recently loads of our personal information was compromised (military) including our children's SS#s, names, date of birth, passport numbers/photos, and worst of all, info linking our children to us and our jobs.

Because of this, I've explained our situation and requested our small center (80 kids) doesn't post pictures of our kids on social media or website. I also signed the "no consent to photography" form.

The reaction from the director was very negative. She called to ask me to change the form bc newsletters were printed before she saw my no consent form. I offered to pay for them to be reprinted and explained our new situation. She said she doesn't know how to deal with this bc they have so many pictures and she doesn't know what to do. I told her I didn't care if they snapped photos but not to put them on Facebook or business website. I offered to put everything in writing in case licensing needed back up info, and even offered to sign the consent form post dating for the newsletter and then sign a new form requesting no photos dated after the newsletter came out.

Today she emailed me to keep kids at home for two upcoming days were photography would occur (holiday programs). She doesn't allow drop off after a certain time and you can't drop kids back after pick up, so while the events will only be an hour, it will results in kids missing 2 full days.

So my question is, am I asking for too much? When the kids do camps, extracurricular activities etc, I don't sign the permission to photograph, and I've never had a problem. I honestly don't want to be a pain, and we love everything about the center, but I just don't want adversaries to know where my kids spend 7 hrs a day, even if it's a remote risk. I also worry about the other kids bc if my kids are targeted there is an overall risk to the other kids that go to the same center.

Ugh, I don't know what to do, please help! I hate to look for new care bc we love this center/teacher/friends and oldest starts K next fall so I'd rather not have more transitions than necessary. But I sense the response is negative enough to term us.

Also, I like to think of myself as a good parent, never ever been late in 2.5 yrs, never doped/dropped, never forgot a teacher's bday, baked goods for every holiday, cash in cards every Christmas, "just bc"cards, etc. this reaction has me completely jolted and confused. Is it a huge pain to have non-photographable children?
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Leigh 07:06 PM 11-11-2015
Honestly, you've been violated in a very personal way, and I think that your emotions have to be running wild right now. I do think that photographing your kids is VERY unlikely to cause any issues. Honestly, I think that when emotions are high, we don't always make the best decisions, but the ones that are emotional.

You have the right to request your children not be photographed. No doubt about it. I feel that we often go too far in trying to protect our kids. If you have faith that they are safe where they are, there's no need to avoid photographs. Ultimately, the decision is yours. I wouldn't think less of you for being extra cautious, but I don't feel that it's necessary. The people who stole your information are after your money and/or credit, not your kids.
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Baby Beluga 07:55 PM 11-11-2015
I will preface this by saying that I am generally the odd man out when it comes to posting photos online. DH works in IT and has held some interesting jobs in the IT field... In essence I am terrified of posting photos of myself or of our child for others to see. I will also never post photos of other's children online.

While I do agree that the people who stole your information are likely after your money and personal info instead of your children, I still would not want my children to be photographed and think the response of the center is terrible. These would be my questions for the director:

* Is is possible for your children to not be in the photos? (perhaps the children can wear a green sticky dot or something on their shirts signifying to whoever is taking the photos to not photograph them)
* If this is not possible, can their faces be easily edited out of the photos before posting?

I just want to add (and this is purely my two cents) when I was younger I had no online identity until I created one myself. I feel like children today have an identity before they are even old enough to make one themselves.
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NillaWafers 07:57 PM 11-11-2015
Originally Posted by Leigh:
The people who stole your information are after your money and/or credit, not your kids.
From what I gathered they are military and it quite possibly could be more than just credit information or money. Or at least that's what it sounded like.

I think being able to choose if your children are photographed is a very personal issue, and your center should be helping you with that. That would not include telling them not to show up - if they are in pictures they want to use they should edit the photos to hide their identities. It's pretty simple.
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racemom 08:17 PM 11-11-2015
I think your center should honor your request. It doesn't seem to me that it would be that difficult to insure they are not in the photos or edited out if needed. I work in a smaller center and do not see why it would be an issue for the teacher to keep the child out of any photo areas. I also don't think it is fair to make your children miss out on the programs, as I am sure everyone is excited for the special day.
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Nisaryn 08:50 PM 11-11-2015
Hello! I'm military (Navy) as well here and so I am the same way you are. My hubby and I both keep our FB pages set to friends and family only so that no one else can see our kids pictures...this pic on here is the most you will see! We also don't allow photos of our daughter to be taken at school and posted on the school page. The school has been very good about this...they have NEVER required that we not bring her, they just make sure that if they are doing an event that the back of her head is in the image. On images that she is in, they have been able to blank out her face by placing a cute smile sticker over it (she is homeschooled now though). Surely they can do this for you as well? It seems as if your center is being very....negative about this for no real good reason. You are completely within your rights about this. I will assume this center is not military affiliated? If it is...bring it up with the Child Youth Services Program. If it is a civilian center you can still bring it up with the CYP and they can call and speak to the center about it for you...might scare them into complying.
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spedmommy4 10:10 PM 11-11-2015
I would ask what her specific concern is with this event and photography. To me, it seems like it would be easy enough for her to just not post pictures with your child or edit them before posting.

However, I recently had a similar issue with an enrolled student. His mom was fine with photos posted to the private parents only accounts but did not want any pictures of her child on a public website.

Well, we had a big carnival in July with 4 other childcares. Everyone had cameras. (Parents, owners, staff) On that day I couldn't guarantee her child wouldn't end up with his picture posted somewhere. Ultimately, I let her know and she was fine with it. It wasn't an easy conversation though.

I would just make sure that she is only concerned about the pictures her staff will take. And if that is all, like the previous posters said, just discuss the solutions that would work for everyone.
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Unregistered 10:27 PM 11-11-2015
I have a daycare Facebook page and website where I post pictures no names. I do have a photo a release form that the parents need to sign whether or not their child's photo can be posted. I currently have one that said no which is fine. If dck is in any shots I want to use, I just edit/blur/crop dck out of it. I just take a bunch of pictures or arrange the children so most times I don't even have dck in the pics.
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childcaremom 01:57 AM 11-12-2015
I never give permission for my children's photos to be posted.

I think you need to have a chat with the school because this is not an odd request and it should be easily accomodated. I don't know about there, but I do believe that here they need permission before posting, so by not giving it, they wouldn't be allowed. And they certainly wouldn't be allowed to deny my child access to an event, simply because I didn't want their photo posted.

As for events where everyone has their cameras... this is a really sensistive topic for me but I will not post a photo of others' children on any of my online media and would certainly expect the same respect from other parents. I hate finding out that parents have posted group shots (which include my child) on to fb and the like.
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KidGrind 03:24 AM 11-12-2015
Originally Posted by Bluebird1:
Recently loads of our personal information was compromised (military) including our children's SS#s, names, date of birth, passport numbers/photos, and worst of all, info linking our children to us and our jobs.

Because of this, I've explained our situation and requested our small center (80 kids) doesn't post pictures of our kids on social media or website. I also signed the "no consent to photography" form.

The reaction from the director was very negative. She called to ask me to change the form bc newsletters were printed before she saw my no consent form. I offered to pay for them to be reprinted and explained our new situation. She said she doesn't know how to deal with this bc they have so many pictures and she doesn't know what to do. I told her I didn't care if they snapped photos but not to put them on Facebook or business website. I offered to put everything in writing in case licensing needed back up info, and even offered to sign the consent form post dating for the newsletter and then sign a new form requesting no photos dated after the newsletter came out.

Today she emailed me to keep kids at home for two upcoming days were photography would occur (holiday programs). She doesn't allow drop off after a certain time and you can't drop kids back after pick up, so while the events will only be an hour, it will results in kids missing 2 full days.

So my question is, am I asking for too much? When the kids do camps, extracurricular activities etc, I don't sign the permission to photograph, and I've never had a problem. I honestly don't want to be a pain, and we love everything about the center, but I just don't want adversaries to know where my kids spend 7 hrs a day, even if it's a remote risk. I also worry about the other kids bc if my kids are targeted there is an overall risk to the other kids that go to the same center.

Ugh, I don't know what to do, please help! I hate to look for new care bc we love this center/teacher/friends and oldest starts K next fall so I'd rather not have more transitions than necessary. But I sense the response is negative enough to term us.

Also, I like to think of myself as a good parent, never ever been late in 2.5 yrs, never doped/dropped, never forgot a teacher's bday, baked goods for every holiday, cash in cards every Christmas, "just bc"cards, etc. this reaction has me completely jolted and confused. Is it a huge pain to have non-photographable children?
It is the center’s mistake not yours. I’d tell her, “I have rights as a parent. You’ve violated the agreement, not I. My kids will be attending those days as we PAY FOR THEM. It is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to keep them out of photos. If you are not able to then I need a refund for those days."
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Play Care 03:30 AM 11-12-2015
I agree with everyone who said the center should be able to honor your request. More and more it seems parents are no longer sharing photos on social media and being more careful with what they post, so this is something the center should be sensitive to.

On a side note, have you put a lock on all your credit and your kids? I think that would be my main concern.

Good Luck!
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DaveA 03:38 AM 11-12-2015
Originally Posted by KidGrind:
It is the center’s mistake not yours. I’d tell her, “I have rights as a parent. You’ve violated the agreement, not I. My kids will be attending those days as we PAY FOR THEM. It is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to keep them out of photos. If you are not able to then I need a refund for those days."
I would say basically the same thing. It's the center's job to follow the contracts as much as it is the parent's. They shouldn't throw the responsibility to follow it on DCPs for this.
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LysesKids 03:47 AM 11-12-2015
Originally Posted by Bluebird1:
Recently loads of our personal information was compromised (military) including our children's SS#s, names, date of birth, passport numbers/photos, and worst of all, info linking our children to us and our jobs.

Because of this, I've explained our situation and requested our small center (80 kids) doesn't post pictures of our kids on social media or website. I also signed the "no consent to photography" form.

The reaction from the director was very negative. She called to ask me to change the form bc newsletters were printed before she saw my no consent form. I offered to pay for them to be reprinted and explained our new situation. She said she doesn't know how to deal with this bc they have so many pictures and she doesn't know what to do. I told her I didn't care if they snapped photos but not to put them on Facebook or business website. I offered to put everything in writing in case licensing needed back up info, and even offered to sign the consent form post dating for the newsletter and then sign a new form requesting no photos dated after the newsletter came out.

Today she emailed me to keep kids at home for two upcoming days were photography would occur (holiday programs). She doesn't allow drop off after a certain time and you can't drop kids back after pick up, so while the events will only be an hour, it will results in kids missing 2 full days.

So my question is, am I asking for too much? When the kids do camps, extracurricular activities etc, I don't sign the permission to photograph, and I've never had a problem. I honestly don't want to be a pain, and we love everything about the center, but I just don't want adversaries to know where my kids spend 7 hrs a day, even if it's a remote risk. I also worry about the other kids bc if my kids are targeted there is an overall risk to the other kids that go to the same center.

Ugh, I don't know what to do, please help! I hate to look for new care bc we love this center/teacher/friends and oldest starts K next fall so I'd rather not have more transitions than necessary. But I sense the response is negative enough to term us.

Also, I like to think of myself as a good parent, never ever been late in 2.5 yrs, never doped/dropped, never forgot a teacher's bday, baked goods for every holiday, cash in cards every Christmas, "just bc"cards, etc. this reaction has me completely jolted and confused. Is it a huge pain to have non-photographable children?
I believe the center should honor your wish to not photograph; heck over the last 3 years I have had 4 children in care that due to situations, would put not only them in jeopardy, but everyone in my care including me (Domestic Shelter & Foster kids); I do believe the hackers are more into it for stealing everyone's ID's, but legally if the center gives you the option to opt out on a written form then they shouldn't add restrictions to it just because it's too much of a pain in their a**.... I would also be asking for a refund for those days
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Bluebird1 04:05 AM 11-12-2015
Thank you, thank you, thank you all so much for your replies. So more on the background story: I think I'm the last person on the planet not to have a Facebook or MySpace or Twitter account. So with that being said I have virtually no online social media presence and may be extra paranoid because of my ignorance.

Back in March one of DH's colleagues was put on the I*si*s kill lists calling for l*o*n*e wo lf attacks in people's houses...open news sources did pick up the story but it probably wasn't that big of a news story to non-military folks. So it's not like the first thing people (like the director) think of when you ask her not to post photos. So it does sound a little crazy when I explain the story. We were never on the list, but now with the large amount of data stolen over the summer, we would expect these lists to be updated. Bc of the nature of our work, I think we tend to be overly cautious and paranoid, but I also am terrified that my kids could be a target. I have explained all this to the director but it is also hard not to come off sounding paranoid/crazy.

In fact, last Christmas I gave her nannyde's book in her gift bag and in her card I told her I promised never to be like the parents in the book. When I emailed her back last night i told here I didn't want to be a snowflake parent requesting special things. I did offer to sign the consent so she doesn't feel like I'm trying to legally bind her or hold her responsible, etc. but if she could have the understanding we don't want the kids' pictures on social media site and she could just skip those pics when uploading them. I think her big fear is other parents or other folks that come to the school will take the photos and she can't control them. I honestly don't really care if regular people take photos of my kids, I just don't want them FB tagged or associated with the school, Bc that's were they spend 32-35 hrs a week and would be a very soft target. I told her I'd keep the kids home, Bc it just seems easier than re-explaining this to her. I think if we can just make it til may, I can move to public school and I suspect they will have more experience in dealing with these types of things.

I thought this was the best compromise I could make, Bc until I have an FBI report, which will hopefully will never come, this threat is very remote and looks like me being super paranoid.

Thanks for all your kind words and advise, it helps to hear honest feedback
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KidGrind 06:12 AM 11-12-2015
Without all the backstory, it’s really simple.


You did NOT sign the consent. As a director, she should simply respect your request. The center gives out the forms for a reason. Parents have rights. The backstory doesn’t matter. You don’t have to explain yourself.
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childcaremom 06:18 AM 11-12-2015
Originally Posted by KidGrind:
Without all the backstory, it’s really simple.


You did NOT sign the consent. As a director, she should simply respect your request. The center gives out the forms for a reason. Parents have rights. The backstory doesn’t matter. You don’t have to explain yourself.

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Blackcat31 06:22 AM 11-12-2015
Originally Posted by KidGrind:
Without all the backstory, it’s really simple.


You did NOT sign the consent. As a director, she should simply respect your request. The center gives out the forms for a reason. Parents have rights. The backstory doesn’t matter. You don’t have to explain yourself.
The children are minors. As an adult, if she does not have your signed/written permission to photograph your children, then she could face charges for violating that.

Also, like KidGrind said you do not owe anyone an explanation. They are your children and it is your right to not have them photographed. Hence the reason they ask you to sign in the first place.

I also agree that your children should not be dismissed from attending ANY days but if you do choose to keep them out, I would expect a FULL refund for sure.

I am sure the director can have another staff member make sure your kiddos are outside the photographed area for a few minutes if she insists on taking pictures of the others OR she can make the exception to allow a later drop off.

Overall, it sounds like the Director is simply being difficult for the sake of being difficult. There seems to be several other compromises available.
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pandamom 06:34 AM 11-12-2015
Because you said a holiday program, I assume it's not he CDC? I work at the CDC and we aren't allowed to celebrate any holidays.

Your child/ren should not be excluded because of photographs. I have had a few children in the past that we did not have permission to photograph and also the MFLACS (child therapists and psychologists that visit classes regularly). It's easy peasy to have them include in activities and not be in photographs by moving the camera so they are out of the frame waiting for them to move to a different activity
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MarinaVanessa 11:12 AM 11-12-2015
I'll be the odd man out here and say that although you as a parent have a right to not want photos of your child posted online it does make it difficult for larger groups of centers to make sure that your child doesn't come up in any photos during assemblies and photos where a large number of children are included.

I don't think that the director was acting out in a negative manner, I think she's trying to figure out a way to do what you are asking during a situation where that is very difficult.

The way I see it is like this ... during this 1 hour on both days the only way to completely ensure that your child won't be in any of the picture posted online is to not have your child participate. If someone snaps a photo of a large group to post online, your child may be in the background somewhere and they might miss it. For them this could be a liability issue because you have filled out the form that says you do not want your child's photo shared online.

That gives you two options ... keep your child home or give an exception to circumstances such as large celebrations. Celebrations are a great photo op for the daycare and posting these photos online in social media and their website is great PR and advertising and the point is for people to see them. I do agree however with those that say that since she approached you with having to keep your kids home then you should be prorated for those two days either refunded or credited towards your next payment.

Does she understand that you're not saying you don't want pictures not taken, you just don't want photos of your kids posted online? And the photos in the newsletter would have been right right? Just trying to figure out why she's making a fuss out of those things.
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Blackcat31 11:55 AM 11-12-2015
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
I'll be the odd man out here and say that although you as a parent have a right to not want photos of your child posted online it does make it difficult for larger groups of centers to make sure that your child doesn't come up in any photos during assemblies and photos where a large number of children are included.

I don't think that the director was acting out in a negative manner, I think she's trying to figure out a way to do what you are asking during a situation where that is very difficult.

The way I see it is like this ... during this 1 hour on both days the only way to completely ensure that your child won't be in any of the picture posted online is to not have your child participate. If someone snaps a photo of a large group to post online, your child may be in the background somewhere and they might miss it. For them this could be a liability issue because you have filled out the form that says you do not want your child's photo shared online.

That gives you two options ... keep your child home or give an exception to circumstances such as large celebrations. Celebrations are a great photo op for the daycare and posting these photos online in social media and their website is great PR and advertising and the point is for people to see them. I do agree however with those that say that since she approached you with having to keep your kids home then you should be prorated for those two days either refunded or credited towards your next payment.

Does she understand that you're not saying you don't want pictures not taken, you just don't want photos of your kids posted online? And the photos in the newsletter would have been right right? Just trying to figure out why she's making a fuss out of those things.
A childs/family's safety clearly outweighs the center's desire to photograph a holiday celebration.

If the center doesnt want to honor a parents request to be or not be photographed why bother having a permission slip at all?

Why not just simply say "We regularly take pictures of the kids and post them on-line. No exceptions"

You cant allow someone a choice and then refuse to accommodate that choice imho.
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Hunni Bee 11:56 AM 11-12-2015
It's not that big a deal at all (for the school). The director is being a jerk.

I work in a large center (300+) and we have kids who do not have consent to be photographed/posted to social media. Some have parents who work for homeland security etc and some just don't want their kid posted to Facebook, myself included.

We have a running list of photo consent designations and prior to photographing an event that may make it onto social media...we consult the list and move those kids out of the camera. It's not a reason for them to be excluded and it doesn't make much extra work.

I'd fight this. Even if they so refund you, its not fair that your kids will now have to miss our on every fun activity over something that the adults can easily handle.
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Unregistered 11:00 AM 11-13-2015
Its not really hard for them to just take the pictures as they would normally and then just stick a black dot over your child's face in group shots if the picture is going to be published in anyway.
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jenboo 11:29 AM 11-13-2015
I've worked at a center in a class with 24+ kids. We had a few kids who we could not photograph. It really wasn't that big of a deal. If we took pictures of an activity, we just took it from an angle where you couldn't see the child's face. If we took a group picture, those children were on the ends and we cropped them out. It didn't take much extra time or planning at all.
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Tags:photo permission, privacy, stolen identity
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