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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>No Cupcake for a Pincher?
hwichlaz 10:41 AM 10-31-2018
When natural consequences may not be appropriate what do you do? I have a 4-year-old who can't keep his hands to himself. He pinches other kids covertly, like under the table, behind his own back, uses his body or objects/furniture to block the view of what he's doing. He has some delays but now that he is over 3 no longer gets early intervention. The school district insists he only needs speech. This is a child that I don't want to term. I'm working with someone trying to get him extra help...... normally, whatever activity we're doing when he pinches someone he misses the rest of. This is mostly effective. Well, today he did it while I was handing out cupcakes for our Halloween party. I'm generally opposed to withholding anything food related as a consequence....but dammit...


What would you guys have done?


I ended up making him wait until everyone was done with their treat and it was all cleaned up, to get his at the table alone. I told him that when he's pinching people he's not fit for company so he has to hang out by himself. I have to be so careful when it comes to food though, giving him something different or not giving the treat to him at all would have been a regulation violation.
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Cat Herder 10:48 AM 10-31-2018
We are not required to give them access to other kids.

If he can't keep his hands to himself while sitting at a table with others, he does not sit at a table with others.

We have a responsibility for the health and safety of the rest of the children in our care. If one child continually threatens that, that child needs to go or not be allowed access to other kids.
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hwichlaz 10:51 AM 10-31-2018
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
We are not required to give them access to other kids.

If he can't keep his hands to himself while sitting at a table with others, he does not sit at a table with others.

We have a responsibility for the health and safety of the rest of the children in our care. If one child continually threatens that, that child needs to go or not be allowed access to other kids.
He spends any time that I'm not right there with them in the baby fence area. This is the first time it's been an issue when I was serving food. He's usually very good at meal time because he loves to eat.
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sahm1225 11:13 AM 10-31-2018
Originally Posted by hwichlaz:
When natural consequences may not be appropriate what do you do? I have a 4-year-old who can't keep his hands to himself. He pinches other kids covertly, like under the table, behind his own back, uses his body or objects/furniture to block the view of what he's doing. He has some delays but now that he is over 3 no longer gets early intervention. The school district insists he only needs speech. This is a child that I don't want to term. I'm working with someone trying to get him extra help...... normally, whatever activity we're doing when he pinches someone he misses the rest of. This is mostly effective. Well, today he did it while I was handing out cupcakes for our Halloween party. I'm generally opposed to withholding anything food related as a consequence....but dammit...


What would you guys have done?


I ended up making him wait until everyone was done with their treat and it was all cleaned up, to get his at the table alone. I told him that when he's pinching people he's not fit for company so he has to hang out by himself. I have to be so careful when it comes to food though, giving him something different or not giving the treat to him at all would have been a regulation violation.
I donít know. Why would it be a regulation violation if itís a treat and not a snack? Would it still be a violation if you gave him a different snack?
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BrynleeJean 11:25 AM 10-31-2018
Id keep the child at the table and if they touched a child they'd have to leave the table and their yummy cupcake for minute and come stand with me and then id send them back. over and over until they got it. takes weeks but the more consistent i am, even though the consistency seems like its so boring its not working, the more it works. two weeks of a very basic consequence whatever it is and it'll work if they are their regularly if not then a little longer.
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hwichlaz 11:40 AM 10-31-2018
Originally Posted by sahm1225:
I donít know. Why would it be a regulation violation if itís a treat and not a snack? Would it still be a violation if you gave him a different snack?
It doesn't have anything to do with it being a meal, but that we are not to use food as discipline period. So I can't reward good behavior by giving a food treat, or punish by denying a food treat.


I can use stickers, stamps, charts etc though.
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Cat Herder 12:11 PM 10-31-2018
Originally Posted by BrynleeJean:
Id keep the child at the table and if they touched a child they'd have to leave the table and their yummy cupcake for minute and come stand with me and then id send them back.
Not trying to be argumentative, or even to single you out, but what do we then do to ensure the other children's right to not be pinched every other minute?

I completely get what you are saying and if the behavior was simply touching others, I'd agree with you. But no child should have to put up with being pinched while another child learns not to pinch others.

Violence against other children is different than annoying or unwanted behaviors at the table and should be dealt with as such, IMHO.
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Hunni Bee 12:52 PM 10-31-2018
I agree with Catherder. But in the meantime, I've totally wrapped a cupcake/cookie up and sent it home for behavior like that. If he's going out of his way to ensure you don't see him, he gets it.
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mommyneedsadayoff 01:51 PM 10-31-2018
I think your response was really great. You removed him from the group, since he is not safe to be around other people yet. You still offered the food, just with no access to other kids. I think that makes a lot of sense, and avoids any sort of violations. Being a part of the group is kind of a privilege. It's for kids who can control their urges. If he is hiding it, he obviously knows it's not okay, but until he chooses to control it, he does not get the privilege of being with the group. I hope that makes sense, I'm a little looped up on meds right now.
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knoxmomof2 05:58 PM 10-31-2018
I think it was a great natural consequence. He can't be trusted to eat with his friends, he doesn't eat with his friends. You didn't withhold the food, just the social opportunity.

In the moment, I probably would have sent him to a timeout, then decided he wasn't going back with the group and had him wait there until the others were finished, then told him he could go and finish now that his friends were safe somewhere else. So, same outcome.
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Josiegirl 01:52 AM 11-01-2018
Originally Posted by knoxmomof2:
I think it was a great natural consequence. He can't be trusted to eat with his friends, he doesn't eat with his friends. You didn't withhold the food, just the social opportunity.

In the moment, I probably would have sent him to a timeout, then decided he wasn't going back with the group and had him wait there until the others were finished, then told him he could go and finish now that his friends were safe somewhere else. So, same outcome.
I've done this before. But in the past, I opened my mouth and told a misbehaving dcb he'd miss out on cupcakes at snack time if he didn't change his behavior around. So once I said that, I had to follow through. It was quite awhile ago, and he was truly a handful, I felt badly about it and never made the same mistake again. I did not withhold snack, he just didn't get the treat.
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lovemykidstoo 04:31 AM 11-01-2018
Let him stay with the group, but give him a plate of carrots instead lol
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Ariana 11:38 AM 11-01-2018
Big puffy mittens with no thumbs. Worked for me before in a toddler room. Make sure he cannot pull then off. Once the habit is broken then you can use the threat “do you need the mittens again” and he can stop himself. He eats seperately from everyone during meals.
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hwichlaz 05:48 PM 11-01-2018
Originally Posted by Ariana:
Big puffy mittens with no thumbs. Worked for me before in a toddler room. Make sure he cannot pull then off. Once the habit is broken then you can use the threat ďdo you need the mittens againĒ and he can stop himself. He eats seperately from everyone during meals.
He's 4 years old....and can tie his own shoes. I can't imagine any mitten he couldn't get off.
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CeriBear 06:11 AM 11-04-2018
I would never withhold any type of food as a consequence for bad behavior or use food as a reward for making good choices. What I do if a child can’t keep his hands to himself or makes bad choices during meals or snacks is have him eat at a table by himself. I also use this during playtime. If a child does not play well with his friends he loses the privileges for a while and has to play by himself. Personally I hate sending a child to timeout and only use this as a last resort or if he does something especially wrong ( like ripping up another child’s artwork, punching a friend, or coloring on the walls.)

What I need help on now is what to do about a 4yo boy who constantly uses potty words at meals and snacks. Having him sit alone or having him go to time out during play doesn’t work. I think it’s become a game with him because the others laugh about it. I’ve tried telling the class that words like poopyhead, peepeeface, and diaperbutt are not funny and that they shouldn’t laugh but most of these kids are only 3. He’s one of the oldest in the class and something of a leader. Aside from the bathroom words he’s a pretty good kid and very smart. Talking to him about it doesn’t seem to work and I debating on having a talk with mom. He has a couple of older brothers so I’m sure this is where he learns these words.
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Ariana 11:44 AM 11-04-2018
Originally Posted by hwichlaz:
He's 4 years old....and can tie his own shoes. I can't imagine any mitten he couldn't get off.
Can you be creative in ways to keep them on?
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e.j. 12:27 PM 11-04-2018
Originally Posted by CeridwenLynne:
What I need help on now is what to do about a 4yo boy who constantly uses potty words at meals and snacks. Having him sit alone or having him go to time out during play doesnít work. I think itís become a game with him because the others laugh about it. Iíve tried telling the class that words like poopyhead, peepeeface, and diaperbutt are not funny and that they shouldnít laugh but most of these kids are only 3. Heís one of the oldest in the class and something of a leader. Aside from the bathroom words heís a pretty good kid and very smart. Talking to him about it doesnít seem to work and I debating on having a talk with mom. He has a couple of older brothers so Iím sure this is where he learns these words.
I tell the kids that I have a potty talk rule: Bathroom words need to be used in the bathroom. When they start using potty talk, I remind them of my rule and ask them to move it to the bathroom. It's funny to them at first and I'll hear a string of potty words come out of their mouths until they can't think of another word or until they get bored. I'll say something like, "Come on; get it all out of your system and then you can come back to the table." (It's almost always at lunch when they start to talk that way!) Once they get back to the table, they might try it again but being sent off to the bathroom where there's no audience to laugh gets boring pretty quickly. I usually only have to send the same kid to the bathroom once or twice - 3 times max - and then it stops.

Hwichlaz: As far as the cupcake is concerned, given the regulation about food you have to follow, I would have done the same thing you did. I would have him sit in time out for pinching and then served his cupcake after the other kids were done and away from the table and explained why he didn't get to eat his with the rest of the kids.
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Tags:punishment - food, regulations, terminate, violence in child care, withholding food
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