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  #1  
Old 09-29-2009, 03:28 PM
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Default Unbelieveable, Why Nosy People and Gov't Need to Stay Out of Our Business

http://www.rr.com/news/topic/article...ighbors_kids/1

In my opinion.....this is a perfect example of why government needs to butt out, and people need to mind their own business. \

I don't understand why some people think everything is "their" business. Who ever reported her, probably "thought" she was making a few dollars, and was jealous of her....MYOB
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Old 09-29-2009, 04:12 PM
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Oh good grief! People are ridiculous!!! Why???
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Old 09-29-2009, 05:29 PM
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Oh good grief! People are ridiculous!!! Why???
Because obviously they have nothing else better to do! I left my former center for a LOT of reasons but I will be honest and tell you that one of the minor reasons was because of licensing. They are a bunch of hypocrites who don't know their blank blank from a hole in the ground. I have NO respect for licensing at all.

On a personal note (and off the subject), my husband and I can not have children of own. So naturally we want to adopt. We were going to go through the state (against my better judgement) of TX. They basically follow minimum standards as well. The "deal breaker" for me was when we went to informational meeting. We were told that the ultimate goal of CPS is to reunite children with their families. I asked them that so if I had a newborn taken from their parents at birth and this child was with us for 2 years and their parents made a miraculous change of life, there is a chance that the baby would be returned? Yes because they feel all children should be at home with blood relatives. Adoption in "their" eyes are a last resort.

Long story short, my husband and I decided on a private agency, one that doesn't have so many stupid rules and meaningless regulations

P.S. thanks for letting me vent...it was a heart breaker that day, now I am just angry at the system haha
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Old 09-30-2009, 03:25 AM
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So sorry you had to go thru that Former Teacher. I have a friend, her husbands brother and wife are fostering 3 children, ages 2,3, and 4, they have had the kids for over a year now. They have been handed back to the mother several times over the past couple years because mom claims she has it together and can take care of them, only to be put back into the system again. The couple have started the paperwork to adopt them, but, the kids are still going on weekly unsupervised visits to their real mom. My friend says the kids are so mixed up and confused, they still go to mommies, are being told they are going to have a new mom and dad, and the saga goes on.

While I do agree that sometimes a mom/dad/or couple, just has hard times and needs a chance to get things sorted out. Just how many times does a young child have to be drug in and out of the system and at such a young age that they don't really understand. I guess my point is the system is so screwed up, whether it is fostering children, adoption, daycare regs, etc. What is the problem.......?????? The one thing in common they all have is the Government, whether it is state, federal, or local. Thanks for letting me vent too.

So, Former Teacher, were you and your husband ever able to adopt?
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Old 09-30-2009, 06:15 AM
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So much for BEST INTEREST of the child!
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Old 09-30-2009, 06:39 AM
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Thank you for posting this article. IMO, this is an example of taking rights away from parents (on deciding who can care for our children and on what terms) and punishing someone who was simply being helpful. What business is it of the government? grrrrr....
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Old 09-30-2009, 08:40 AM
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This actually made the local tv news this morning. Instead of praising someone for doing something good......they get beaten down.
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Old 09-30-2009, 02:47 PM
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So sorry you had to go thru that Former Teacher. I have a friend, her husbands brother and wife are fostering 3 children, ages 2,3, and 4, they have had the kids for over a year now. They have been handed back to the mother several times over the past couple years because mom claims she has it together and can take care of them, only to be put back into the system again. The couple have started the paperwork to adopt them, but, the kids are still going on weekly unsupervised visits to their real mom. My friend says the kids are so mixed up and confused, they still go to mommies, are being told they are going to have a new mom and dad, and the saga goes on.

While I do agree that sometimes a mom/dad/or couple, just has hard times and needs a chance to get things sorted out. Just how many times does a young child have to be drug in and out of the system and at such a young age that they don't really understand. I guess my point is the system is so screwed up, whether it is fostering children, adoption, daycare regs, etc. What is the problem.......?????? The one thing in common they all have is the Government, whether it is state, federal, or local. Thanks for letting me vent too.

So, Former Teacher, were you and your husband ever able to adopt?

Thank you for your kind words. No we haven't been able to adopt yet. We will be going through a private adoption agency instead of the state. I wanted a child from the state because like with a private agency, I (we) want to give an underprivileged child a good home. Like I said, it was against my better judgement though because I know how the system works. Again thank you for your kind words
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Old 10-01-2009, 05:46 AM
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HHHHMMMMMM just a thought her but if SHE really wants to just help her bff's out of the goodness of her heart then why doesn't she have them help her pay the fees and just get licensed?

Last edited by Michael; 10-01-2009 at 08:21 PM. Reason: grammer
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Old 10-01-2009, 09:33 PM
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I'm a little bit surprised that you all feel that way. I see this from a Licensed Daycare Provider's perspective. Here in Oregon, we have to have 8 hours of continuing education per 2-year licensing cycle. In addition to that, we have to re-take a Child & Infant First Aid & CPR course every 2 years, get re-certified as Food Handlers the same way someone working in a restaurant would, and we have a Home Health & Safety Inspection during the licensing year, and a "casual visit" in the non-licensing year. Therefore, in theory, a child coming to my home is safe from hazards - whether they be for physical injury or foodborne issues - that the average parents wouldn't even think of, and he is also in good hands if he has a medical issue. We were also trained, when we first applied to be Licensed Daycare Providers, on how to recognize Child Abuse & Neglect, and what processes to follow if it becomes necessary to report a case. That's a lot of time, effort, and expense that we have to go through. It's worth it, don't get me wrong. So when someone does this important job without the benefit of all that I have listed above, it's unfair to me, to the parents, and to the kids. JMHO.

Last edited by Michael; 10-02-2009 at 12:56 PM.
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  #11  
Old 10-02-2009, 12:58 PM
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unregistered; I corrected the spelling for you. If you register as a member you can make corrections and updates to your posts as needed.
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  #12  
Old 10-02-2009, 02:20 PM
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I'm a licensed provider as well...but this is a Mom watching kids at the bus stop, not daycare.
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Old 10-02-2009, 03:57 PM
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I'm a licensed provider as well...but this is a Mom watching kids at the bus stop, not daycare.
I totally agree! What are they going to regulate next, sleepovers? That's just nuts! It is AN HOUR!
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Old 10-02-2009, 07:29 PM
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I'm a licensed provider as well...but this is a Mom watching kids at the bus stop, not daycare.
Exactly. I have issues with people that watch a ton of kids unlicensed all day long - and even then I wouldn't report unless I witnessed something abusive or otherwise shocking. I'm licensed as well and I don't see ANY problem with an hour before school whatsoever. Why can't people help their neighbours out? Unreal.
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Old 10-03-2009, 02:25 PM
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This is crazy. It's one hour/day before school. As long as the parents are okay, what's the big deal? It's not a daycare. Teens who babysit in the evenings aren't required to be licensed so why does this lady need to be for 1 hour/day. People need to mind their own business.
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  #16  
Old 10-04-2009, 04:56 PM
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Copied and pasted from the article linked in the 1st post above:

Each day before the school bus comes to pick up the neighborhood's children, Lisa Snyder did a favor for three of her fellow moms, welcoming their children INTO HER HOME for about an hour before they left for school.

It's not just at the bus stop as someone said.

Btw, I'm the same "unregistered" that said I'm surprised you all feel this way. I do plan to register, but whenever I get on here, I seem to be in a rush.

I'm sorry, but I still say if someone is watching other people's kids in that person's home, they should follow their state's regulations on licensing.

As to the teenage babysitter argument, they go to the kids' home to watch them, so that's different.

-- Joyce
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  #17  
Old 10-05-2009, 02:30 AM
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Our drive is a bus stop also, has been for over 10 years. I have, on many occassions, either opened my garage door for the kids to stand in garage or allowed a group of 9 kids to come into my home and wait on the bus during rain, snow, extreme cold, or when bus was running late. I didn't get paid for it either.

As far as teenagers caring for a child, my daughter many times has watched a child in OUR home and she got paid for it. Bottom line is: nosy neighbor who needs to mind her own business.....unless she is hoping to start her own care center..........and government who needs to butt out also. Hell, look at the horrible mess our country is in.......and it isn't the fault of your average joe mom and dad, it is the fault of our government and greedy people.
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  #18  
Old 10-06-2009, 06:49 AM
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Sorry, I still say we should all learn to mind our own business. These women are pefectly capable of deciding who is going to spend an hour with the kids every morning. They really don't need the State to tell them how to do it.

I am still curious...if this were the situation in your neighborhood, why would you care? It isn't hurting you, the kids are fine, the parents are saving money...? I just don't get it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Copied and pasted from the article linked in the 1st post above:

Each day before the school bus comes to pick up the neighborhood's children, Lisa Snyder did a favor for three of her fellow moms, welcoming their children INTO HER HOME for about an hour before they left for school.

It's not just at the bus stop as someone said.

Btw, I'm the same "unregistered" that said I'm surprised you all feel this way. I do plan to register, but whenever I get on here, I seem to be in a rush.

I'm sorry, but I still say if someone is watching other people's kids in that person's home, they should follow their state's regulations on licensing.

As to the teenage babysitter argument, they go to the kids' home to watch them, so that's different.

-- Joyce
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  #19  
Old 10-06-2009, 06:54 AM
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HHHHMMMMMM just a thought her but if SHE really wants to just help her bff's out of the goodness of her heart then why doesn't she have them help her pay the fees and just get licensed?
You must be joking? Opening yourself up to drop in visits, following guidelines about locking drawers and zip lock bags (and eveerything else) so you can watch the neighbors SCHOOL-AGED children for FREE? Yeah, right.
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Old 10-06-2009, 06:56 AM
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AMEN!! My personal opinion is that people who worry about this kind of thing are just in a tizzie because they think someone is going to get something that they don't! Like little kids who think someone else might get 5 M&M's when they only got 4!

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Originally Posted by melissa ann View Post
This is crazy. It's one hour/day before school. As long as the parents are okay, what's the big deal? It's not a daycare. Teens who babysit in the evenings aren't required to be licensed so why does this lady need to be for 1 hour/day. People need to mind their own business.
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  #21  
Old 10-07-2009, 10:05 AM
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AMEN!! My personal opinion is that people who worry about this kind of thing are just in a tizzie because they think someone is going to get something that they don't! Like little kids who think someone else might get 5 M&M's when they only got 4!
LMAO @ little kids who think someone else might get 5 m&m's when they only got 4!! So true!

There is a difference between caring for kids all day long and simply providing a supervised place for them to wait for the school bus in the morning. It may be an hour, heck, it may be 1/2 an hour... why should this woman have to go through the expense and hassle of licensing? No good deed goes unpunished, it seems...
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  #22  
Old 10-13-2009, 08:52 AM
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Daycare should be between parent and provider. End of story. DCF is there for abuse. Daycare licensing is a joke.
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Old 10-13-2009, 09:59 AM
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Daycare should be between parent and provider. End of story. DCF is there for abuse. Daycare licensing is a joke.
Most 'licensed and regulated' daycares I've taken my children to have run into a hurry up and get up to code mode when they knew it was time for them to be evaluated. I would walk in to drop off my kids and notice that all of the adults present were busily doing extra cleaning and hurriedly shuffling papers. Also, there was one daycare my kids went to that didn't even ask me for their shot records until the day before they were going to be evaluated--and my kids had been there for a year! yes, I was a young and inexperienced mother, but I've learned that just because a place is licensed, doesn't mean it's safe. I'd like to retain the right to decide who gets to care for my children, thank you.
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Old 10-13-2009, 10:42 AM
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Wow, sometimes the ignorance and apparent boredom of others astounds me. Who cares if she has kids at her house waiting for the bus? It's HER house! Geeze, fifty years ago this type of thing was commonplace - neighbours helped eachother out. Now if you help out a neighbour you get a letter from the state? Good gravy.
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  #25  
Old 10-17-2009, 11:25 PM
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I'd like to retain the right to decide who gets to care for my children, thank you.
How does licensing strip you of that choice?
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Old 10-18-2009, 06:53 AM
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Because if the person you choose, or want, to care for your child while you work is not licensed, in some states they can not care for children, so yes, licensing does strip some parents from choosing the person they want to care for their child.
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Old 10-18-2009, 01:16 PM
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Because if the person you choose, or want, to care for your child while you work is not licensed, in some states they can not care for children, so yes, licensing does strip some parents from choosing the person they want to care for their child.
And is it that hard to get licensed?

If they're not licensed, there may be a good reason why they aren't (as in, they can't pass the background check, their water is contaminated, their home isn't safe, etc).
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Old 10-18-2009, 04:55 PM
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I know for a fact that the amount of work involved in getting licensed varies extremely from one state to the other. So yes, in some states it is that hard to get licensed, not only that, but the cost involved. I know someone who had to put a certain type of fireproof door up at her kitchen door that led to the garage and it cost her $350. That is just one example of the bs that some states make us do. I also know another provide that said they got a SINGLE sheet of paper with items listed on it that they needed to do for home daycare, and that it was mostly common sense things that we do anyways.....no problem, not a big cost and not a big issue. If they would just use common sense....the licensing end that is.
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Old 10-18-2009, 05:32 PM
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I know for a fact that the amount of work involved in getting licensed varies extremely from one state to the other. So yes, in some states it is that hard to get licensed, not only that, but the cost involved. I know someone who had to put a certain type of fireproof door up at her kitchen door that led to the garage and it cost her $350. That is just one example of the bs that some states make us do. I also know another provide that said they got a SINGLE sheet of paper with items listed on it that they needed to do for home daycare, and that it was mostly common sense things that we do anyways.....no problem, not a big cost and not a big issue. If they would just use common sense....the licensing end that is.
I have to ask....would you skimp on putting a fireproof door in place between the garage and the home if it were your call? Or would you just put up a hollow core interior door to save a few bucks?

I sure wouldn't......and I bet it was code for any new construction.

When my mother got licensed, she had to change her upstairs windows to egress style, and add an anchored rope ladder to one bedroom floor that could be unfurled out the window in an emergency. Think what would have happened should a fire break out WITH the old windows (which the cat could barely get through, much less a person).

But, hey, let's do away with all licensing regulations, why bother licensing and inspecting drivers, hazardous waste facilities, eating establishments, building codes, etc. Everyone will use common sense, right?

Without building codes, how many sub-standard roofs, walls, foundations, etc do you think would be built? I can see it now, 2x2 walls on 3 story buildings, floor trusses 36" on center, 1/4 sheating for flooring, etc etc.

With no licensing regs, how many sub-par daycare facilities do you think would be operating? You want to cry about how little you're getting paid now, wait til some mega corp opens a center that hires illegal immigrants for $2 per day to watch 25 kids each.....try competing with that.

The regs are in place for a reason, usually because someone didn't use "common sense".

Usually when you set the bar a little higher, you weed out those who are going to be half-assed. If someone gives up easily when faced with a few challenges, do you really want them caring for kids?
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Old 10-18-2009, 08:17 PM
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That's not the issue here. It's an HOUR. She's not in it for a career, she's watching some kids while they wait for a bus. What's the point of going through the hassles for AN HOUR? It's ridiculous.
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Old 10-18-2009, 08:55 PM
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That's not the issue here. It's an HOUR. She's not in it for a career, she's watching some kids while they wait for a bus. What's the point of going through the hassles for AN HOUR? It's ridiculous.
In this lady's case, I do believe that the fact that there is no compensation changing hands should be the determining factor.

And so it seems that the legislator agrees:
Quote:
State Rep. Brian Calley, R-Portland, said he was working to draft legislation that would exempt situations like Snyder's from coverage under Michigan's current day care regulations.

The bill will make it clear that people who aren't in business as day care providers don't need to be licensed, Calley said.

I'm sure there is more to this story than is being reported, I bet this lady and whoever reported her have a long standing cat fight, and this was just one of the battles in the war.
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Old 10-19-2009, 02:55 AM
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I have to ask....would you skimp on putting a fireproof door in place between the garage and the home if it were your call? Or would you just put up a hollow core interior door to save a few bucks?

I sure wouldn't......and I bet it was code for any new construction.

When my mother got licensed, she had to change her upstairs windows to egress style, and add an anchored rope ladder to one bedroom floor that could be unfurled out the window in an emergency. Think what would have happened should a fire break out WITH the old windows (which the cat could barely get through, much less a person).

But, hey, let's do away with all licensing regulations, why bother licensing and inspecting drivers, hazardous waste facilities, eating establishments, building codes, etc. Everyone will use common sense, right?

Without building codes, how many sub-standard roofs, walls, foundations, etc do you think would be built? I can see it now, 2x2 walls on 3 story buildings, floor trusses 36" on center, 1/4 sheating for flooring, etc etc.

With no licensing regs, how many sub-par daycare facilities do you think would be operating? You want to cry about how little you're getting paid now, wait til some mega corp opens a center that hires illegal immigrants for $2 per day to watch 25 kids each.....try competing with that.

The regs are in place for a reason, usually because someone didn't use "common sense".

Usually when you set the bar a little higher, you weed out those who are going to be half-assed. If someone gives up easily when faced with a few challenges, do you really want them caring for kids?
*********************************************************
Chickenhauler.....I normally respect and agree with most of your post, but you went over the top here. Nobody was talking about using a hollow core door for an entry door, nobody was talking about the various building violation codes you described. I mentioned an existing entry door (not a hollow core door but an entry door) having to be replaced with one that had a much longer fire rating in her kitchen/garage, that is all. This poor lady has had nothing but one obstacle after another......for instance, she was told to have a fire inspection, but, everyplace and every surrounding county she calls, or numbers she is given to call to schedule it, there is always something----wrong county--don't do it anymore---etc, there are so many flaws in the licensing systems. How ironic a licensing office would tell you that you need a fire inspection yet can not give you a concrete person/place that you can call and schedule and have it done. She is still working on getting licensed, and it has been over a year, because of the obstacles of the licensing agency. Maybe it is not this way where you live, but it sure is in some states.

If someone gives up easily when faced with a few challenges, do you really want them caring for kids?[/quote]

.............................It is not just a matter of a few challenges, it is a matter of a person trying to make a living, being able to afford to doing it legally, following the rules, all I am saying is that many of the state regs are totally rediculous. I am talking about home daycares, where a family lives in the home and a person cares for a small group of children. I guess I see it that......if my home is good enough for me to live in and raise my own children, then it is good enough to care a few hours for someone elses child. Of coarse we follow common safety things, meds up, outlets covered, safe play area, fenced yard, healthy meals, appropriate activities, clean environment, I could go on and on. I personally don't need the state to tell me how/what to do, I have several parents that are in and out of my home everyday that see what environment their child is in.
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Old 10-21-2009, 10:38 AM
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How does licensing strip you of that choice?
In the case of the state stepping in and requiring that someone have a license to care for children on a regular basis at all, I would feel as though licensing was stripping me of the choice. It was just a response to the originally posted article. All of the parents of the children the woman was watching now have to make other arrangements, even though the arrangement they had was working for them. Not only was this woman being told she couldn't care for the children, the parents were being told that they couldn't allow her to care for their children.
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Old 10-22-2009, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by mac60 View Post
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Chickenhauler.....I normally respect and agree with most of your post, but you went over the top here. Nobody was talking about using a hollow core door for an entry door, nobody was talking about the various building violation codes you described. I mentioned an existing entry door (not a hollow core door but an entry door) having to be replaced with one that had a much longer fire rating in her kitchen/garage, that is all. This poor lady has had nothing but one obstacle after another......for instance, she was told to have a fire inspection, but, everyplace and every surrounding county she calls, or numbers she is given to call to schedule it, there is always something----wrong county--don't do it anymore---etc, there are so many flaws in the licensing systems. How ironic a licensing office would tell you that you need a fire inspection yet can not give you a concrete person/place that you can call and schedule and have it done. She is still working on getting licensed, and it has been over a year, because of the obstacles of the licensing agency. Maybe it is not this way where you live, but it sure is in some states.
My point was, these regulations are in place for a reason-without a set standard, people will seek the lowest common denominator in almost every case.



Quote:
.............................It is not just a matter of a few challenges, it is a matter of a person trying to make a living, being able to afford to doing it legally, following the rules, all I am saying is that many of the state regs are totally rediculous. I am talking about home daycares, where a family lives in the home and a person cares for a small group of children. I guess I see it that......if my home is good enough for me to live in and raise my own children, then it is good enough to care a few hours for someone elses child. Of coarse we follow common safety things, meds up, outlets covered, safe play area, fenced yard, healthy meals, appropriate activities, clean environment, I could go on and on. I personally don't need the state to tell me how/what to do, I have several parents that are in and out of my home everyday that see what environment their child is in.
You may follow a sensible standard, but how many do you think would do these things if there wasn't any regulations regarding this?

If you think it's a hassle trying to meet the standards of doing daycare, interstate trucking would make you pull your hair out by the roots.....each state has their own "special" laws and regs.

Have you ever had a parent take the temp reading of your hot water tap, or your fridge and freezer? Have they ever randomly inspected your bathroom, outlets, stairways, or inspected for egress windows? Has a parent ever asked to check your fire extinguisher's charge, or the date of it's last certification? Have your DC parents asked to examine your CPR cert, or emergency evac plan?

I've never heard of any parent even thinking of looking at this stuff.
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  #35  
Old 10-22-2009, 06:42 AM
jen jen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chickenhauler View Post
My point was, these regulations are in place for a reason-without a set standard, people will seek the lowest common denominator in almost every case.



You may follow a sensible standard, but how many do you think would do these things if there wasn't any regulations regarding this?

If you think it's a hassle trying to meet the standards of doing daycare, interstate trucking would make you pull your hair out by the roots.....each state has their own "special" laws and regs.

Have you ever had a parent take the temp reading of your hot water tap, or your fridge and freezer? Have they ever randomly inspected your bathroom, outlets, stairways, or inspected for egress windows? Has a parent ever asked to check your fire extinguisher's charge, or the date of it's last certification? Have your DC parents asked to examine your CPR cert, or emergency evac plan?

I've never heard of any parent even thinking of looking at this stuff.
I hear what you are saying, but I think that the point you are missing is this. I personally don't feel like I need the government to ensure that my kids are safe. If my next door neighbor is watching one family and offers to watch mine as well, I don't need or want the government telling me no. If I am comfortable that her house is safe, that should be good enough. Now, if the government is paying for my daycare, they can certainly have their say. But, as long as I am paying for it (or not paying for in this case) it isn't their concern. The underlying issue here is that the government doesn't think that we as parents are capable of choosing a provider.
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  #36  
Old 10-22-2009, 07:52 AM
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Not in anyway saying this is the unlicensed providers on this forum. You ladies all seem to have it going on and have an enormous amount of love and attention for the children and families you care for.
What about the parents, that have been discussed in another thread, obviously don't give a rat's patootie about the well being of their children. They would probably be fine dropping the children off with whomever will keep them and not get them busted for leaving the 3 year old home alone with a box of crackers. Are they paying attention to how many kids the lady is "taking care of", or do they even care?
We can't throw the baby out with the bath water. DCFS has it's place. There are people out there who will take in as many children as possible doing whatever with them, just keeping them alive until the parents show. And there are parents who will take them to these places. The same parents that don't dress their children for the weather, don't change their diapers, don't bathe them, don't feed them appropriately, give them benadryl to put them to sleep.....
YOU would never do this, but OTHERS would. There needs to be someone out there making sure these types of operations aren't going down. I hardly ever agree with chickenhauler, but I agree that if they took away the regulations there would be legal warehousing of children with little to no quality control. Pack them in folks, it's cheap and efficient.
I don't think you should have to be licensed if you don't want to be, it should be up to the individual. But sometimes that really depends on the rationale and intentions of the individual.
I know it's not a perfect system, nothing is. But the system is their to protect children. Even if it is to protect them from their own parents and the decisions their parents make.
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