I posted in the venting thread yesterday about my new little daycare girl. I'm pretty sure that part of her trouble is that she's coming from a smaller (quieter) in home daycare, and she's dealing with a double whammy of adjustments: new daycare AND her mom is away this week. BUT...(there's always a but, lol)

You can read some of the background on the venting thread, but here's the quick overview--14 month old whose parents still give her bottles and expect her to have two (so, 16 oz of milk) during the day and are mad that she's not drinking that much. Day 1 she had about 4 oz, yesterday was more like 6-8. I can also tell (from her behavior and other clues) that she's still treated like a baby at home--there's baby food (Gerber stage 2) in her diaper bag with baby spoons and a container of gerber puffs--and this is on top, so it's not been forgotten about. She expects to be able to walk around with her cup and screams if I walk away and wants to be held while eating at the table. Yes, she doesn't like sitting in her own chair; she wants held. IMO, once they're walking, they're a toddler, with all the expectations and responsibilities that come with toddlerhood.

At pick-up yesterday, the dad told me that she usually drinks 24 oz of milk a day. 24 oz?!? That's an awful lot, IMO. I checked the food program guidelines and meal patterns, and found that the serving size for her age is 1/2 a cup (or 4 oz) of milk at breakfast, lunch, and dinner (and snacks, but we don't serve milk at snacks so not an issue here). So, 8 oz while she's here is plenty, and I have the government on my side.

She's not suffering from lack of nutrition--she is a VERY chunky little girl and a VERY heavy 14 month old. She eats plenty of solids. I don't let anyone wander around with sippy cups OR bottles, I don't hold a 14 month old for bottles (I'm not even giving her bottles, I give her sippies), I don't spoon feed toddlers. Heck, I don't even like spoon feeding babies and as soon as they are capable of feeding themselves I expect them to...and they do. I also fully expect it to take two weeks to a MONTH for her to become totally adjusted and comfortable here.

Her parents (well, dad, haven't spoken with mom much yet) want her drinking 16 oz of milk, want me to give her bottles and hold her for them, and seem to think that she should be totally adjusted and fine by now. There are a few other things too (like wanting me to nap her at three since that what she's "used to" from the old provider) that I won't go into in detail about.

So, who's right, here? I don't begrudge them the right to do what they want at home, but when she's here is what I'm wondering about...

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I don't think it is about who is wrong or who is right. It is about how YOU run your daycare. This family has expectations that you are unable to meet because you choose not to. There is nothing wrong with that. Did any of this come up in the interview? I usually try to cover stuff like that to let them know what to expect.

For the record - I'm with you. I wouldn't be able to do any of those things either. BUT.... that doesn't mean parents are wrong or horrible parents - they are just choosing a different method that you aren't able to meet. So they need to decide if they are willing to handle your way of doing things or if they need to find someone that will comply with their requests.

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Um, your house, your rules....doesn't sound like this is a good fit. Everyone has a right to do things as they wish and no one should TELL anyone else that they can't. But you don't have to do anything that goes against your rules and they don't have to do anything that goes against their parenting styles, wishes, whatever you call it....trouble starts when you have parents who believe "A" and provider who believe "B" and then you both end up in a tug of war trying to see who is right....when neither of you are..to each his/her own. But it is your house so if they don't agree to abide by your policies then term....

For the record, I also agree 100% with your views but it is their kid so they should just find a place that will care for her in the manner they want her cared for and since they don't want to be schooled in parenting chalk it up to a difference of opinions. I would NEVER give a child over 12 months a bottle. At my house we get sippy's at that age. I was told by food program years ago that we aren't allowed to put milk in a bottle...only formula which usually stops being their milk source at 12 months...don't know if my food program lady was right or wrong but I use that as my policy unless they have a special diet statement.

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That's not fair they can put that much responsibility on you!

I understand that parents can do whatever they want within their own home. But you have schedules to follow and other children to attend to?!

You can't put that much time into only one child if you have other children in your home as well.

I had very big boys early in the summer, and I don't mean fat boys, I mean very thick boys, the 3 yr old was larger than my 4 yr old. And his baby brother was 9 mths old and weighed more than my 2 yr old! The deal I made with the mom was she would supply 1 4L jug of milk a week, because I couldn't keep up with the cost of the milk for these kids. Within the first week I discovered this 4L didn't last 3 days! I very quickly changed these kids diets, and gave them ALOT of water.

I might have a lot of disagreement here and hopefully not make anyone too mad. But any of you moms out there might understand that not everything needs to be known? Did any of you start feeding solids to your own children and maybe skip over this part when explaining to your dr. how baby eats? Any of you give your kids sugar water or apple juice before 6 months of age? Or maybe even give you infant a bottle of water on a really hot day instead of milk/formula even though the doctors insist babies strictly should be fed formula/breastmilk?
Just a matter of maybe omitting certain information to the parents. I am not encouraging parents to lie to the parents, but sometimes not every little piece of information is necessary. If child is happy and healthy, maybe keeping the parents happy thinking she's drinking a million gallons of milk each week, even if she's not isn't a bad thing?

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the big things came up at the interview--naps, meal times, stuff like that. But the interview was in September, and they might have forgotten. The mom might also be more okay with things than dad is, but since mom's away, dad has to handle it on his own.

I'm glad that at least I'm not the only provider who feels like I do--and I agree, that if they don't settle down and relax about things, then they would be better off with someone else. I'm not going to suggest it myself though unless they become a problem. I need this money, but I'm not willing to treat a perfectly capable toddler like a baby.

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I'll trade ya.....I have a 5 year old who is carried into and out of the house. Mom dresses and undresses him daily; jacket, boots, hat and mittens. She also tells me that she cuts his food up into tiny little pieces so he doesn't choke and he has a sippy cup too. He isn't allowed to bring it here though...He gets a big boy cup here and I do NOT cut up his food and he HAS to dress and undress himself here....all of which he does just fine but if mom wants to keep treating him like a baby...then it will be her problem! Oh, and he told me the other day that his mom still lays down with him every night! I asked her about it and she said he is scared and when she lays with him he can fall asleep and then she sneeks out after he falls asleep! Whew! NO wonder she works full time!! LOL!! I do less for the kid and I get paid!!

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I agree with the other posts. Your rules, your home. I have had a parent recently expect me to disipline her son in a way that I did not believe in doing or approve of...We had disagreements and her child is no longer in my care because I tried the things she wanted me to do and still nothing worked for her child. ( She wanted me to leave him in a pack n play until he stopped crying/hitting/pulling hair/kicking) this including nap time where he would cry and scream, she would tell me he stays in their an hour at home so do the same at your home. I feel that children should not be ignored for a long period of time when they are crying. I know if I was a parent I would not leave my child in a pack n play for over 10 minutes crying, let alone an hour.

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this is what dh always says "keep your mouth shut and don't tell the parents" and I would do this, (because you don't want to terminate) I would put her on your schedual, and thats that. As for the milk, dump out the remaining milk and wash the bottle and hand it to the parents. If the child is getting enough fluids and eating good, there is no need for extra milk (I can tell you some stories about kids who drink way too much milk) don't bring it up unless a parent asks how much she drank and just tell them, that she drank everything. I always wash out the bottles and give them the clean ones (you would be amazed how many come with dirty stinky bottles) as for the nap, who the heck puts their kid down at 3pm for a nap, I would cut out any morning naps, and have her on 1 nap a day like the rest of the kids. What kind of place did she come from, something doesn't sound right.

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Sorry if I screwed up the quote above. Not sure never done it.

But I agree!
However I even advertise that I am flexible and work in as much as possible the parents normal routine.

I have one girl, 1 yrs old, she naps all morning, and sometimes all afternoon!" I have to admit it makes it fairly easy for me most days, but on days when we have places to go, places to be etc, it is frustrating.

But the parents work opposite shifts, and they live about an hour out of town. So they like that time for her to be awake on the drive home, and then stay up late into the night, etc. For me I think it's insane! But whatever floats their boat. If her naps are interferring with any kind of outing, activity or anything then I just wake her up. She can sleep in the stroller if she has to.

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Everything I've read says milk intake for a 1 year old should be between 16-24 ounces a day. And no more than 16 ounces a day when a child turns 2.

My 25 month old daughter's pediatrician has her drinking roughly 20 ounces of whole milk a day still, but this is because she was born very prematurely and is only in the 2nd percentile for her age.

I think 16-24 a day sounds about right. I give my kids (and daycare kid) milk with breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Water or water/juice with snacks. My daycare boy (19 months) typically drinks about 8 ounces of milk with breakfast and 8 ounces with lunch and his parents give him milk with dinner. He always eats a good breakfast and lunch and he is in the 60th %tile, so it's not like the milk is his primary means of nutrition and he's not chunky, very average for his age. And he gets about 24 ounces a day.

I would say if this girl is chunky like you described, that she would be good on the low end of 16-24 a day, so it would make sense that she gets more like 16-18 ounces a day, which would mean you giving her about 6 ounces for breakfast and lunch. And they can give her 6-8 at home for dinner.

Bottom line though, you can't make a child drink. So if she only drinks 4 ounces at a meal for you, then she only drinks 4 ounces. They can't expect you to force her.

I definitely agree, your house, your rules. This child needs to be on same schedule as everyone else. It's not fair to you, her, or the other kids if she's not. A 3pm nap is insane.

As far as addressing how much milk she should be getting, I would provide the parents with the information you have on how much milk a child her age should get and if they would like her to have something different, ask that they provide you with a Dr.'s note stating how much she should be drinking in a day.

Or maybe just call the nurse line (either her ped. or yours) and ask to speak with a nurse about the milk guidelines for a child her age. I'm sure they would help you.

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am I the only one that doesn't measure how much milk the kids are drinking?

After they are out of bottles I just fill cups as needed. I don't even give it a second thought.

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I don't measure either. Not even for my own kids. I just know they have so much milk and chocolate milk in a day. As long as they have 3-4 cups a day, I know they're fine. Because they also get milk with cereal, plus cheese and stuff during the day.

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I don't measure either, but my daugher and dcb use the same cups always and they hold 10 ounces, so I know approximately how much I put in them by that. I don't have time to measure!

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I don't usually measure either; I actually don't even subscribe to the idea that you have to drink as much milk as "they" claim either--IMO, cottage cheese, cheese, yogurt...those all count JUST as much, and we eat them frequently.

I don't usually give many details about how much/what got eaten and drank during the day, just as once they're out of infancy I don't detail diapers and things. DCD has been asking for details though, and it's hard to avoid answering a direct question, kwim? I'll try to find more "helpfully evasive" answers.

This child acts like she has no limits whatsoever at home--she just got mad because another child wouldn't let dcg take the child's fork...when dcg had a fork in front of her. She also screamed bloody murder the whole time I was in the kitchen making lunch--my rule is that the kids are NOT allowed in the kitchen with me while I'm cooking, and she gets majorly underfoot (dangerously underfoot)--and screams and cries if I'm not looking at her.

I'm also watching this child eat...she doesn't have much experience with self-feeding: AT 14 MONTHS!! She has a devil of a time getting individual peas and pieces of macaroni successfully to her mouth, and has NO IDEA how to take a bite of something (such as bite of a piece of a sliced, canned peach, or take a bite from a banana). I can't help but feel like *the child* is right where she needs to be--with someone who's going to expect her to do what she's capable of doing, and teach her how to be a toddler and grow up.

And Daycare Mama, you're right--a 3 PM nap is definitely insane, completely insane. I think my jaw dropped open when he said that. I just calmly explained that everyone naps at the same time here and that's 1 PM, after the 12:30 lunch. He looked put out about that, but whatever.

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Agreed that calcium intake is in other foods.


As for the child not being able to manage putting small bites of food into her mouth at 14 months......

Is she that chubby that maybe her hands aren't functioning? Or is it simply due to lack of development in this area due to it always being done for her?

I've had that feeling too, where it's beneficial to have children like this in my own care.

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She's not *that* chubby--it looks more like a lack of practice sort of thing. She concentrates REALLY hard to get a piece of food from plate to mouth; so much so that eating finger foods doesn't look like it's "natural" for her yet.

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For me that seems so strange at that age. I mean even if parents still feed her. At 6 mths my boys were picking up pieces of bacon and steak! I know I know! Even just crawling around on the floor they figured out how to pick up microscopic pieces of anything and it was in their mouth so fast you can't even get out the word no. So developmentally then, there is definitely something wrong with this child. Unfortunately until they are about 5 yrs of age, most problems go undiagnosed. Does she look normal other than the chub? Every kid develops at their own pace, and factors such as mommy spoon feeding to avoid mess will delay slightly, but not to this extreme.

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Maybe you should print a list of things she should be able to do by now such as self feed and give the list to the parents and ask that they work on the milestones she hasn't aced yet. After that I would just drop it all together. Push her hard to learn your rules. She should figure out pretty soon what she can do at your house and what she can do at home. If mom was more okay with your way than dad is you may have to wait until mom is back in town before getting any further with getting parents on board.

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The milk answer is: "Oh daddy I give her a four ounce cup and she's doing pretty darn good with it. If she wants more I'l top it off with more. I always want to make sure she gets her belly full." Then squeeze her chunky little thighs and say "she hasn't missed a meal yet".

With the table food just put her in the high chair with chopped food and let her at it. She will pick it up.

With the naps... just tell him that you CAN have her up during nap and sleeping from the 3-5 time but you will have to hire an assistant for her for the 1-3 nap time since this is when the other kids nap and you get your "chores" done and break time. Let them know she would LOVE one to one attention and you are sure you could get someone JUST for her. That will be an extra $20 a day so just let me know if you guys want that and I'll start interviewing assistants. OR... she can nap when the other kids nap and the fee will stay the same. Whatever they want you will do.

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Awesome

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I agree with you in your house your rules you can't just let every child do what they want. You need to have control over you daycare. Now if the DCPs want their child to have that much attention they should get a private nannie for the child.

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that's ridiculous - she shouldn't even be drinking out of bottle period - much less being held while she drinks it. ugh, i wouldn't do it.

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I love it! I can see where this kind of response could be useful in many ways.

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Thanks everyone! Nannyde--great suggestions, thanks!

Dad seemed a little more comfortable with stuff today. I didn't specify how much milk she'd drank, just that she'd been taking it out of a sippy cup and I'm going to pick up some Take n Toss straw cups this weekend for her, and I asked him to stop sending bottles 'cause we don't give them over 12 months. He was totally fine with that and told me that she actually uses straw cups at home (then...why are you a) sending bottles and b) just now telling me this?).

I have been treating her just like any other kid, giving her the food and letting her make her own way with it. She just takes for-freaking-ever to eat and is having a hard time with that hand-to-mouth coordination. BayBee, it seems strange to me as well, but maybe she was just one who was late taking to solids? I'm not sure. I'll start watching. She seems otherwise completely normal, developmentally, from what I've seen (in the three days I've had her, that is). KidKair, that's a good idea and I might do that, even if just for *my* sake and I don't show it to the parents. It's been 2 years since I've had a kid that age, and mine was always ahead of the curve on everything so I'm not always sure of "normal".

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I can top that and then some! I had a parent of a 3 year old boy (who did all that you said above PLUS) tell me that she hand feeds him so he will eat better. She requested that I do the same. "Ma am I am sorry no" She was like "what?! He has to eat!!" "Of course he can and he will. I just won't do it for him. I have 20 plus other kids that have to eat at the same time. I can not sit and feed a 3 y.o." She didn't look happy and kinda of stormed off.

The next day (his 1st day) at lunch he sat there and was expecting me to feed him. I told him that if he wasn't going to eat that I was taking it away and he won't eat again until his mother got there. He understood. He ate all his lunch and then wanted more! Mom came and picked up and first thing she asked was about lunch. I said he had seconds. She asked me if I fed him.."Ma am I told you I can't. Even if I could, I wouldn't. He's 3 years old. He needs to develop his hand/eye coordination".

Never brought it up again.

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I don't think I've fed my youngest child (my own I mean) since he was 7 or 8 mths old. And that was because we were in a restaurant and I forgot to bring the wipes.

Sorry, but I have 3 of my own children, and I want to eat too. I'm not eating after everyone else is finished. If its something they can't do on their own like maybe soup, ok that's different. But everything I make for lunches/dinners is child friendly. So there's no reason for it.

What are those kids going to do when they go to school? Teachers aren't going to feed them!

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You need type up YOUR daycare sehedule with naps, meal times, etc. type up a menu with food and drinks for a week and email it to them tell them this is your rountine and menu. If they come back and disagree with anything you tell them as nicely as possiable that they are more then welcomed to go find another provider if they wish but your shecdule, meals will not change.

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i have a 15 month old who still takes a bottle, will only self feed cheerios, and chokes on anything chunkier than sage 2 baby food, of which she will only eat fruits, and obviously is spoon fed, she wants a bottle with her *at all times* she doesn't care if it's empty, she just wants it. She drinks a full bottle of milk twice a day, so EIGHTEEN OUNCES of milk while she's at my house, she won't drink water and she won't drink juice

my own baby will turn 1 tomorrow, but he was 6 weeks premature, but he's off formula and onto whole milk, he gets a 4 oz bottle of milk 3-4 times per day, and 3-4 sippy cups of REALLY watered down juice, and he is spoon fed stage 3 food once a day, and self feeds the rest of the time...and his doctor, even tho he was a premie, gets on to me about babying him too much, I can't imagine what a dr would say to the mother of the 15 month old i watch!

I say it's your house, your daycare, you decide...i personally just go with what the parents want as long as it doesn't harm the kids at all and it's within reason, but honestly...telling you the number of ounces they want their toddler to drink isn't exactly within reason...good luck!

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Man...I'm both glad and appalled that I'm not the only one with a kid like this (and that there are ones as old as 3 and 5)!

It is absolutely my home, my rules; most of the purpose of this post I guess was to find out if "my home my rules" is what it ought to be, and it sounds like it is!

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