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  #1  
Old 01-04-2011, 06:36 PM
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Default Discrimination at Jo-Ann's Fabrics and Crafts

I've been talking to a provider in Kansas City who has tried unsuccessfully to participate in the "Teacher's Rewards" program at the Jo-Ann Fabrics stores. They have a policy of giving a 15% discount card to "teachers" who are defined as K-age 12 public and private school teachers, as well as home-school teachers. She tried to explain why family child care providers and other preschool teachers should be included, but was turned down. I wrote about this on my blog: www.tomcopelandblog.com ("Are Family Child Care Providers Teachers?").

I note that the IRS gives a $250 tax credit to "teachers" but not preschool teachers. This law has been around since 2002 and was just extended to 2011.

I think this is unnecessarily discriminatory and think all preschool teachers should get such discounts. Maybe if enough providers make their voices known we can change Jo-Ann Fabrics policy. I'm urging providers to post comments on the Jo-Ann Fabric Facebook page and several have done so already.
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Old 01-04-2011, 06:41 PM
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I am in. I have a huge load of linens in the dryer. I've got nothing but time right now

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Old 01-04-2011, 07:29 PM
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That would be awesome if they gave a 15% discount to us!! I shop Hancock though. The Joanne around here is a bit too far.
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Old 01-04-2011, 07:29 PM
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Do preschool teachers have the amount of education that K-12 teachers do? I've always wondered that. Just what ARE the requirements to be a preschool teacher?
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Old 01-04-2011, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Joyce View Post
Do preschool teachers have the amount of education that K-12 teachers do? I've always wondered that. Just what ARE the requirements to be a preschool teacher?
it depends - Head Start teachers have to have an associate's degree (at least where i live) but there are pre-K programs in public schools and they have to have a bachelor's degree.

if the policy included only licensed teachers, i would understand and support the policy. what's the point of going to college for 4 years and getting a license if you get the same "benefits" that are offered to any and everyone? SINCE they offer the discount to homeschool teachers - the policy makes no sense. you can teach homeschool (in my state) with a GED. there are no credentials other than that - none.

i wonder if it has more to do with the fact that daycare providers are FOR profit while licensed teachers and homeschool teachers are NOT for profit rather than the fabric company "doesn't consider daycare providers as teachers."
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Old 01-04-2011, 07:49 PM
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I think we should either be licensed or maybe just registered providers to be able to say one of our jobs is being a teacher...obviously family child care providers have many jobs of owning and operating their own business. There should be "something" that shows "proof" or else anyone can walk into these establishments and claim to be a teacher. Thanks for sharing Tom, I'll be sure to go to their FB page.

It would also help if individuals typed letters to the corporate office (if they want to make a change) and explain how often they take their business to Jo-Ann Fabrics (or any other company that they want to get that teacher discount <Hobby Lobby!>) and feel they're under-appreciated as a customer because they--as a corporation--do not properly acknowledge the customer's title in our line of work, which should make them equally eligible to receive a discount.
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Old 01-04-2011, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by QualiTcare View Post
i wonder if it has more to do with the fact that daycare providers are FOR profit while licensed teachers and homeschool teachers are NOT for profit rather than the fabric company "doesn't consider daycare providers as teachers."
I like that distinction. Maybe the reason they want to give discounts to K-12 teachers is that they struggle with low wages that they have no control over due to budget cuts. We, as self-employed Providers, have much more control about how much we make. We can raise rates or take more kids, increase our hours, etc.
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Old 01-04-2011, 07:59 PM
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I am pretty sure both of my sisters work as teachers in public schools for a profit..... Also alot of us have degrees in other fields, too....

Eh, it is worth a try since I send almost half of my craft glue, scissors and paper to the public school for my kids teachers since the budget cuts.
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Old 01-04-2011, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Catherder View Post
I am pretty sure both of my sisters work as teachers in public schools for a profit..... Also alot of us have degrees in other fields, too....

Eh, it is worth a try since I send almost half of my craft glue, scissors and paper to the public school for my kids teachers since the budget cuts.
yeah, teachers get paid, but the schools are not for profit AND stats show that teachers spend money out of their pocket to buy supplies - the number varies depending on where you look, but generally $500-$1000. how many non-business owners buy their own supplies? secretaries aren't buying copy paper. nurses aren't buying needles. there are many people who are employed by agencies that are non-profit. the agencies get tax breaks, but the employee of course gets paid. it also has zero to do with having a degree in another field. that would make as much sense as me trying to get a discount on medical supplies even though i'm not a doctor, "but i have a degree in another field."

either way, it's irrelevant because the discount isn't offered to only licensed teachers - it's offered to homeschool teachers with a GED. that's why i think it must have more to do with for profit vs. non-profit than how daycare providers are perceived.
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Old 01-05-2011, 05:38 AM
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Our teachers get paid very well here in the public school system, excellent working conditions, have top of the line benefits, have approx 4 mo a year off when you add up the summer vacations, Spring break, Chrsitmas break, plus all the other holidays.....it is rediculous to say they are underpaid. Seriously, they have it made.
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Old 01-05-2011, 05:42 AM
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Our teachers get paid very well here in the public school system, excellent working conditions, have top of the line benefits, have approx 4 mo a year off when you add up the summer vacations, Spring break, Chrsitmas break, plus all the other holidays.....it is rediculous to say they are underpaid. Seriously, they have it made.
actually schools runs 180 days per year so it's closer to 6 months, but who's counting?
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Old 01-05-2011, 05:47 AM
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Tom what does this mean? "The way to overcome this ignorance is to be proactive in educating others about the positive impact preschool teachers make on the lives of young children. All the research supports this."

What research are you refferring to?

I have to agree with JoAnn's on this. The child care industry has done this to themselves. The misues of the word teacher has finally been CAUGHT by big business.

In my State you can have a Center with three hundred kids and not have a single person in the building that has even a GED except for the director who has to have a high school diploma.

Every single center in my area calls their staff teachers. The staff can walk into the building without a high school education and not even a GED and within a couple of days of background checking and a physical they can be put into a room and be called Teacher from that day on. The amount of "education" they have to have is a two hour child abuse class and by the anniversary of their first year of service they have to have tweleve hours of CHILD CARE classes that are NOT college classes. When I say twelve hours I mean twelve sixty minute hours. THAT'S IT.

The state of Iowa does NOT regulate that term. The Centers use the word because it makes them money. It makes the parents feel like their child is with an educated person.

I can't speak to the home schooling part because I don't know their reasoning for that but I say cheers to them for taking a stand on this term that is so misused.

I hope you haven't been smitten by the research on poor kids and early childhood intervention. YES preschool is valuable to children who are the poorest of the poor and who live in underprivledged environments. Other than that subsect of the population, I haven't found any research to back up that preschool makes any signficant difference in any measurable life outcome for lower middle class, middle class, upper middle class, or wealthy children. That's the blunt of our kid population.

You said: Are Family Child Care Providers Teachers?
Jacqueline Crocker always thought so. She has been a licensed family child care provider in the Kansas City area for over 20 years. She is accredited by the National Association for Family Child Care (NAFCC)

Here is the NAFCC's Eligibility criteria: http://www.sncs.org/downloads/provid...pplication.pdf


Be at least 21 years of age. Have a high school diploma or GED.
Provide care to children for a minimum of 15 hours per week.
Provide care to a minimum of three children in a home environment.
At least one child must not reside in the provider’s home.
Be the primary caregiver, spending at least 80% of the operating hours actively involved with the children.
Co-providers must spend at least 60% of the time actively involved with the children.
Have at least 12 months experience as a family child care provider. Meet the highest level of regulation to operate a family child care program by the authorized regulatory body.
Be in compliance with all regulations of the authorized regulatory body . Have a favorable state and federal criminal history.
Be in good health in order to provide a nurturing and stable environment for children.
Maintain a current CPR and Pediatric First Aid certification. Adhere to the NAEYC Code of Ethical Conduct .


You see why JoAnn's doesn't accept that as proof of being a teacher?
  #13  
Old 01-05-2011, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac60 View Post
Our teachers get paid very well here in the public school system, excellent working conditions, have top of the line benefits, have approx 4 mo a year off when you add up the summer vacations, Spring break, Chrsitmas break, plus all the other holidays.....it is rediculous to say they are underpaid. Seriously, they have it made.
Same here.
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Old 01-05-2011, 06:10 AM
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There are many companies that offer teacher discounts. I tried years ago to use my child care license to obtain the discounts, to no avail. Once I went to school and obtained my Master Teacher Permit through the state teacher credentialing system, I began recieving the disounts.

Honestly, I think the 15% is a drop in the bucket to companies like JoAnnes, and they should extend the offer to providers out of goodwill. BUT, technically they can refuse it, as providers are NOT teachers unless they have a credential to prove it.

I do think that many provders use the term "teacher" loosely and shouldn't advertise as a preschool if they do not have the education to provide a DAP preschool program, but that's a whole 'nother issue
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Old 01-05-2011, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
I hope you haven't been smitten by the research on poor kids and early childhood intervention. YES preschool is valuable to children who are the poorest of the poor and who live in underprivledged environments. Other than that subsect of the population, I haven't found any research to back up that preschool makes any signficant difference in any measurable life outcome for lower middle class, middle class, upper middle class, or wealthy children. That's the blunt of our kid population.
i remember you saying this in another thread awhile back. yesterday i was telling my husband i may take my son out of preschool. i put him there because his sister goes to school during the day and i thought it would be good for him socially and to get prepared for kindergarten. his "teacher" seems to think he's doing great *in comparison to the other children*, i'm sure he is. i have done my own assessments and he doesn't know half of what i *know* he should know by now. he has HOMEWORK which consists of coloring alphabet people. what is the point in coloring a picture of "mr. N" or writing the letter N on lined paper when you don't recognize the letter N or what it sounds like? needless to say, he doesn't do his homework. i do make pudding and let him write letters or i give him paint (like you write on windows with) and let him write letters on the mirror. i'm just not willing to make and fight with him color what equates to japanese and call that learning the alphabet. i don't know what his "teacher" thinks about his folder being sent back with blank papers in it.

anyhow, i think you're right. "poor parents" which usually equates to uneducated parents wouldn't see a problem with making a pre-schooler do that type of "work." it's probably the ONLY exposure they get to letters, numbers, etc. so of course it would benefit them because the alternative is NO exposure.

i've never been a fan of homeschool because i've never thought everyone (not no one) with a GED could teach their children the way they need to be taught. i was reading up on homeschooling yesterday because i'm considering doing it when i finish up my BSN and will be able to work 3, maybe 4 days per week. i still haven't changed my opinion that anyone with a GED shouldn't be able to homeschool though.
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Old 01-05-2011, 06:35 AM
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There are many companies that offer teacher discounts. I tried years ago to use my child care license to obtain the discounts, to no avail. Once I went to school and obtained my Master Teacher Permit through the state teacher credentialing system, I began recieving the disounts.
i still and apparently never will understand what you mean by this. here, you have a teaching license furnished by the DOE or you don't. you have a license number that is registered and can be looked up online. you have a bachelor's degree in education and pass a series of Praxis exams in order to get a teaching license and be a "teacher." i'm not a "master teacher," i'm just a teacher. point being - if you don't have a teaching license, you still shouldn't technically be able to qualify for teacher discounts according to the standards.
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Old 01-05-2011, 06:42 AM
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i still and apparently never will understand what you mean by this. here, you have a teaching license furnished by the DOE or you don't. you have a license number that is registered and can be looked up online. you have a bachelor's degree in education and pass a series of Praxis exams in order to get a teaching license and be a "teacher." i'm not a "master teacher," i'm just a teacher. point being - if you don't have a teaching license, you still shouldn't technically be able to qualify for teacher discounts according to the standards.
I don't get it either
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Old 01-05-2011, 07:00 AM
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what's not to get? I went to school, and then applied through the California Teacher Credentialing System to recieve my credential/teaching permit. "master teacher" is the title the state gives it, not me.

I also have a Child Care license, but that is through the county/state, not the teacher credentialing system.

So, I have a credential to present to businesses that offer teacher discounts, and they accept it.
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Old 01-05-2011, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by QualiTcare View Post
i still and apparently never will understand what you mean by this. here, you have a teaching license furnished by the DOE or you don't. you have a license number that is registered and can be looked up online. you have a bachelor's degree in education and pass a series of Praxis exams in order to get a teaching license and be a "teacher." i'm not a "master teacher," i'm just a teacher. point being - if you don't have a teaching license, you still shouldn't technically be able to qualify for teacher discounts according to the standards.
I do have a license number that can be looked up, here:

http://www.ctc.ca.gov/lookup.html

But I'm not going to share my last name on a public forum, so you won't be able to look it up.

I don't know why this is so controversial to you. It's the State of Ca.
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Old 01-05-2011, 07:40 AM
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There are many companies that offer teacher discounts. I tried years ago to use my child care license to obtain the discounts, to no avail. Once I went to school and obtained my Master Teacher Permit through the state teacher credentialing system, I began recieving the disounts.

Honestly, I think the 15% is a drop in the bucket to companies like JoAnnes, and they should extend the offer to providers out of goodwill. BUT, technically they can refuse it, as providers are NOT teachers unless they have a credential to prove it.

I do think that many provders use the term "teacher" loosely and shouldn't advertise as a preschool if they do not have the education to provide a DAP preschool program, but that's a whole 'nother issue
it's not that it's controversial. like you said, people use the word "teacher" loosely and when you say "i'm a master teacher" all the time, that makes people think you are a TEACHER as in someone who could apply for, be qualified for, and be hired for a job in a public school system. that is what people assume you are when you say you're a teacher.
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Old 01-05-2011, 08:03 AM
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yeah, teachers get paid, but the schools are not for profit AND stats show that teachers spend money out of their pocket to buy supplies - the number varies depending on where you look, but generally $500-$1000. how many non-business owners buy their own supplies? secretaries aren't buying copy paper. nurses aren't buying needles. there are many people who are employed by agencies that are non-profit. the agencies get tax breaks, but the employee of course gets paid. it also has zero to do with having a degree in another field. that would make as much sense as me trying to get a discount on medical supplies even though i'm not a doctor, "but i have a degree in another field."

either way, it's irrelevant because the discount isn't offered to only licensed teachers - it's offered to homeschool teachers with a GED. that's why i think it must have more to do with for profit vs. non-profit than how daycare providers are perceived.

Yes. TOTALLY agree. I gotta go with JoAnne's on this one. We're NOT teachers*. And I agree with giving K-12 TEACHERS the discount, because they DO spend tons of their own money on supplies.

*see clarification in my next post.
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Old 01-05-2011, 08:21 AM
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Yes. TOTALLY agree. I gotta go with JoAnne's on this one. We're NOT teachers. And I agree with giving K-12 TEACHERS the discount, because they DO spend tons of their own money on supplies.
for the record, i always referred to my children's childcare providers as TEACHERS. they DO teach just like a piano TEACHER teaches music. it's a common term and it's accurate. HOWEVER, when we start getting technical about who is a teacher and who is not according to state standards - teachers hold bachelor's degrees in education and a license by the state. you can't go around calling yourself a Dr. or a RN and reap the benefits without having a degree and a license so why would it be any different with teachers?
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Old 01-05-2011, 08:57 AM
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for the record, i always referred to my children's childcare providers as TEACHERS. they DO teach just like a piano TEACHER teaches music. it's a common term and it's accurate. HOWEVER, when we start getting technical about who is a teacher and who is not according to state standards - teachers hold bachelor's degrees in education and a license by the state. you can't go around calling yourself a Dr. or a RN and reap the benefits without having a degree and a license so why would it be any different with teachers?
Yes, I agree that if you were to define a teacher as "person who teaches something to someone", then yes, that definition could be extended to almost anyone. The cashier at the grocery store "taught" me how their new card swipe machine works, so by that broad definition, she's a "teacher". However, you and I are on the same page meaning K-12 private or public SCHOOL degreed and certified teacher.
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
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for the record, i always referred to my children's childcare providers as TEACHERS. they DO teach just like a piano TEACHER teaches music. it's a common term and it's accurate. HOWEVER, when we start getting technical about who is a teacher and who is not according to state standards - teachers hold bachelor's degrees in education and a license by the state. you can't go around calling yourself a Dr. or a RN and reap the benefits without having a degree and a license so why would it be any different with teachers?
I think it's a great shout out to teachers that JoAnne's made the distinction. The example Tom gave is a perfect example of how someone with such a small amount of education and experience (someone who is eligible for NAFCC accreditation) can really believe they are a teacher because they care for kids. They allow people who don't even have a high school education to be accredited.

If you have the time research what a GED really is and the history of it. It is NOT equal to a high school education. It's a test to measure your ABILITY to DO high school work NOT on your mastery of a high school education.

This is a good base article: http://www.essortment.com/family/hig...ldipl_svan.htm

I don't know about the person Tom is talking about who is disagreeing with their policy BUT the idea that having NAFCC accreditation is some kind of indication of education for the kids is just plain silly. It's no wonder JoAnne's put limits to the term. We can't seem to manage that within our proffession.

I'm am NOT a teacher. I do not have an education to teach. I should not ever be considered a teacher in ANY way. I have NO business educating kids. The classes that I take to be a child care provider in my State are set at a very very low level of education as so many providers don't even posess a high school education.

I think it's an insult to teachers to have people who do not have a Bachelors degree in education being referred to as teachers.
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:18 AM
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I really just like the idea of simply asking for a group discount for art supplies since I buy in bulk. No other politics involved and that is what my post to them on facebook said .

Last year, when I was still homeschooling my kids I could have had their discount. This year I am ineligible. That was my point....and I was making a light hearted joke about my sisters being paid. Obviously there are a lot of raw nerves about training/credentials, personally I could care less how many degrees anyone holds who care for infants and toddlers, like me. I want to know they can keep the playroom clean, cook a good meal, change a quick diaper, use common sense/good judgement and soothe a little soul . I am not a TEACHER.

I just think the discount would be cool, and most likely encourage me to spend more there since I own and operate a Family Home Daycare. I, again, am a Child Care Provider, not a Teacher. My sisters are Teachers and they worked their rears off to earn their Masters Degrees. They will be paying off those loans for ever....I resent no discount they have. I simply see no problem in the asking.
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:39 AM
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catherder, I love your avatar

Wow, all this over a 15% discount. I'll just use the coupon in the newspaper if I happen to go to JoAnn Etc.
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Old 01-05-2011, 11:27 AM
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catherder, I love your avatar
Wow, all this over a 15% discount. I'll just use the coupon in the newspaper if I happen to go to JoAnn Etc.
Yes...me too!!! I knew what the words said in your previous posts but I couldn't help thinking it said 'catheter' rather than 'cat herder'...two separate words...the avatar keeps my mind from thinking! LOL!!! BTW...why are you cat herder...how many do you have?
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Old 01-05-2011, 11:50 AM
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Yes...me too!!! I knew what the words said in your previous posts but I couldn't help thinking it said 'catheter' rather than 'cat herder'...two separate words...the avatar keeps my mind from thinking! LOL!!! BTW...why are you cat herder...how many do you have?
"Raising kids is like herding cats"..... It is an old southern saying. Although, I do currently have 3 spoiled cats that an irresponsible neighbor abandoned when she moved and another that was a foster and sucked up to my kids in a conspiracy. 4 of the buggers bossing me around, ugh!

I am a dog person.
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Old 01-05-2011, 01:07 PM
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I looked up California's teaching requirements. What Crystal is referring to is a Master Teacher Permit and the requirement are as follows. It is related (it appears) only to preschool.

Requirements for the Child Development Master Teacher Permit
To qualify for the Child Development Master Teacher Permit, individuals must satisfy all of the requirements
listed in one of the following options:
Option 1
1. Complete all General Requirements (see Terms and Definitions)
2. Complete 16 semester units in general education, including at least one course in each of the following
areas: humanities and/or fine arts, social sciences, math and/or science, and English and/or language arts
3. Complete six additional units in one area of specialization, which may include, but is not limited to the
following:
• Infant and toddler care
• Bilingual and bicultural development
• Children with exceptional needs
• Preschool programming
• Parent/teacher relations
• Child health
• Specific areas of developmentally appropriate curriculum
4. Complete an additional two semester units of adult supervision course work
5. Complete 350 days of experience in an instructional capacity in a child care and development program,
working at least three hours per day within the last four years (this experience must be verified by
submitting an original letter from the employer on official letterhead)
School-Age Emphasis under this option requires that 12 of the 24 semester units of early childhood
education or child development be in school-age course work.
Option 2
1. Complete a baccalaureate degree or higher
2. Complete 12 semester units of early childhood education or child development course work
CL-797 10/08 Page 5 of 8
3. Complete three semester units of supervised field experience in an early childhood education or schoolage
setting
School-Age Emphasis under this option requires that six of the 12 semester units in early childhood
education or child development be in school-age course work.
Term and Renewal
The Child Development Master Teacher Permit is issued for five years and is renewable for successive fiveyear
periods upon completion of 105 hours of professional growth. This permit may be renewed online. Permit
holders who complete the requirements for a higher level permit within three years of the date of initial issuance
may submit verification of completion of requirements, an application (form 41-4) for the higher level permit,
and half the application processing fee.
CHILD
  #30  
Old 01-05-2011, 01:46 PM
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Thanks Jen, that is accurate.

My whole point is that I have a credential and am able to use it for the discounts that businesses offer teachers. I only call it "Master Teacher" because that is what the state calls it....they also have the "teacher" permit, but I hold the Master Teacher permit because I have a higher level of education. Either way, it's classified as "teacher" and I get the discounts. And, yes, I could teach preschool in the public school system.

Last edited by Crystal; 01-05-2011 at 01:48 PM.
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Old 01-05-2011, 05:52 PM
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Wow. I'm actually a state licensed grade 5-12 Spanish teacher, and a state licensed home daycare provider. JA's won't give me my discount card because I don't have a current state teacher union card. Union membership in our state is not mandatory. I haven't taught in a public school in 3 years and can't afford the dues so I just let my membership expire. But when I went back with my state issued license they said no. I was going to try a couple of other stores I also shop at but stopped there. They were so rude! I won't even shop there anymore based on how they treated me.
  #32  
Old 01-06-2011, 08:06 AM
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Wow. I'm actually a state licensed grade 5-12 Spanish teacher, and a state licensed home daycare provider. JA's won't give me my discount card because I don't have a current state teacher union card. Union membership in our state is not mandatory. I haven't taught in a public school in 3 years and can't afford the dues so I just let my membership expire. But when I went back with my state issued license they said no. I was going to try a couple of other stores I also shop at but stopped there. They were so rude! I won't even shop there anymore based on how they treated me.
now, THIS would be discrimination.
  #33  
Old 01-06-2011, 08:18 AM
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Great information!

I dont think it matters if you are an educated teacher or a daycare provider. I dont know why previous posters are getting off the real topic. I think the whole point of the discount is to get craft items and activities into the hands of children.

I would love to participate for the cause.
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Old 01-06-2011, 08:55 AM
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Great information!

I dont think it matters if you are an educated teacher or a daycare provider. I dont know why previous posters are getting off the real topic. I think the whole point of the discount is to get craft items and activities into the hands of children.

I would love to participate for the cause.
it got off topic because we were talking about WHY educated teachers AND homeschool "teachers" (who do not have to be educated) are getting the discount and daycare providers are not. wait, that is the topic.

anyhow, it has to have something to do with public school/homeschool being non-profit and daycare being for profit. i'm not positive and tom hasn't responded, but that's the only explanation that makes sense.

companies don't care about getting supplies into the hands of children. they care about drawing in the people who can bring them the most money and getting the biggest breaks and rewards.
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Old 01-06-2011, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
Tom what does this mean? "The way to overcome this ignorance is to be proactive in educating others about the positive impact preschool teachers make on the lives of young children. All the research supports this."

What research are you refferring to?

I have to agree with JoAnn's on this. The child care industry has done this to themselves. The misues of the word teacher has finally been CAUGHT by big business.

In my State you can have a Center with three hundred kids and not have a single person in the building that has even a GED except for the director who has to have a high school diploma.

Every single center in my area calls their staff teachers. The staff can walk into the building without a high school education and not even a GED and within a couple of days of background checking and a physical they can be put into a room and be called Teacher from that day on. The amount of "education" they have to have is a two hour child abuse class and by the anniversary of their first year of service they have to have tweleve hours of CHILD CARE classes that are NOT college classes. When I say twelve hours I mean twelve sixty minute hours. THAT'S IT.

The state of Iowa does NOT regulate that term. The Centers use the word because it makes them money. It makes the parents feel like their child is with an educated person.

I can't speak to the home schooling part because I don't know their reasoning for that but I say cheers to them for taking a stand on this term that is so misused.

I hope you haven't been smitten by the research on poor kids and early childhood intervention. YES preschool is valuable to children who are the poorest of the poor and who live in underprivledged environments. Other than that subsect of the population, I haven't found any research to back up that preschool makes any signficant difference in any measurable life outcome for lower middle class, middle class, upper middle class, or wealthy children. That's the blunt of our kid population.

You said: Are Family Child Care Providers Teachers?
Jacqueline Crocker always thought so. She has been a licensed family child care provider in the Kansas City area for over 20 years. She is accredited by the National Association for Family Child Care (NAFCC)

Here is the NAFCC's Eligibility criteria: http://www.sncs.org/downloads/provid...pplication.pdf


Be at least 21 years of age. Have a high school diploma or GED.
Provide care to children for a minimum of 15 hours per week.
Provide care to a minimum of three children in a home environment.
At least one child must not reside in the provider’s home.
Be the primary caregiver, spending at least 80% of the operating hours actively involved with the children.
Co-providers must spend at least 60% of the time actively involved with the children.
Have at least 12 months experience as a family child care provider. Meet the highest level of regulation to operate a family child care program by the authorized regulatory body.
Be in compliance with all regulations of the authorized regulatory body . Have a favorable state and federal criminal history.
Be in good health in order to provide a nurturing and stable environment for children.
Maintain a current CPR and Pediatric First Aid certification. Adhere to the NAEYC Code of Ethical Conduct .


You see why JoAnn's doesn't accept that as proof of being a teacher?
I think you are missing something here. Plenty of research shows children have the greatest brain development before they enter kindergarten. The research also shows that high quality preschool programs make a significant impact on the development of preschool children. Low quality preschool can harm children. The point here is that society should be concerned about how we are teaching preschool children. If we only care about what children are learning after they enter kindergarten then we will fail our children. I assume that all family child care providers know this and that's why you work so hard at what you do. To recognize as "teachers" on those who teach school age children is a mistake.

When Jo-Ann Fabric and Crafts (and many other businesses) makes a distinction between teachers and preschool teachers it reinforces the false message that children only start learning when they enter kindergarten. And it says that all teachers of school age children are valued (no matter how good or bad they might be individually) and all preschool teachers are not valued (no matter how qualified and excellent they may be individually).

No matter how many credentials a preschool teacher might have (NAFCC accredited, former school age teacher, PhD in Education) Jo-Ann Fabric and Crafts won't recognize them as teachers. It's not about their credentials, it's about the fact that they teach preschoolers. The message here is that society doesn't care about what happens to children before they enter school and those who care for them are worthy of support. That's why society provides so little financial support for preschool while we invest heavily from the moment they enter kindergarten through college.
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Old 01-06-2011, 05:11 PM
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Yes. TOTALLY agree. I gotta go with JoAnne's on this one. We're NOT teachers*. And I agree with giving K-12 TEACHERS the discount, because they DO spend tons of their own money on supplies.

*see clarification in my next post.
The point is that the supplies are for children who need them. Do preschool children need supplies as well? Of course. We want school age children to have the best learning experience as possible. But we also want the same for preschool children. Don't we?
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Old 01-06-2011, 05:13 PM
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I think you are missing something here. Plenty of research shows children have the greatest brain development before they enter kindergarten. The research also shows that high quality preschool programs make a significant impact on the development of preschool children. Low quality preschool can harm children. The point here is that society should be concerned about how we are teaching preschool children. If we only care about what children are learning after they enter kindergarten then we will fail our children. I assume that all family child care providers know this and that's why you work so hard at what you do. To recognize as "teachers" on those who teach school age children is a mistake.

When Jo-Ann Fabric and Crafts (and many other businesses) makes a distinction between teachers and preschool teachers it reinforces the false message that children only start learning when they enter kindergarten. And it says that all teachers of school age children are valued (no matter how good or bad they might be individually) and all preschool teachers are not valued (no matter how qualified and excellent they may be individually).

No matter how many credentials a preschool teacher might have (NAFCC accredited, former school age teacher, PhD in Education) Jo-Ann Fabric and Crafts won't recognize them as teachers. It's not about their credentials, it's about the fact that they teach preschoolers. The message here is that society doesn't care about what happens to children before they enter school and those who care for them are worthy of support. That's why society provides so little financial support for preschool while we invest heavily from the moment they enter kindergarten through college.
By the way - the criteria you cite for NAFCC accreditation is what a person must meet before they can apply for NAFCC accreditation! It's not the qualifications of someone who is accredited!
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  #38  
Old 01-06-2011, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by TomCopeland View Post
The point is that the supplies are for children who need them. Do preschool children need supplies as well? Of course. We want school age children to have the best learning experience as possible. But we also want the same for preschool children. Don't we?
My post was comparing Home Daycare Providers to K-12 teachers, Tom.
  #39  
Old 01-07-2011, 02:28 AM
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i'm just wondering.....

as a home daycare provider, and a business owner, supplies i purchase are deductible on my taxes.

can teachers in public schools (whether pre-k or k-12) do that as well?
  #40  
Old 01-07-2011, 05:55 AM
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By the way - the criteria you cite for NAFCC accreditation is what a person must meet before they can apply for NAFCC accreditation! It's not the qualifications of someone who is accredited!
this is SO true! To actually become accredited, there are MANY quality indicators that a provider must meet. The provider must conduct their own self-study, which may take up to two years, and then undergo a very intensive observation by a qualified accredidation observer. Recieving the accredidation means that the provider is offering an excellent, above average program that meets the developmental needs of all of the children in care. I think an accredited provider would meet the distinction of being a "teacher"
  #41  
Old 01-07-2011, 07:01 AM
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[quote=Crystal;69492]this is SO true! To actually become accredited, there are MANY quality indicators that a provider must meet. The provider must conduct their own self-study, which may take up to two years, and then undergo a very intensive observation by a qualified accredidation observer. Recieving the accredidation means that the provider is offering an excellent, above average program that meets the developmental needs of all of the children in care. I think an accredited provider would meet the distinction of being a "teacher"[/QUOTE]

but they don't. most every associate's degree known to man takes 2 years to complete and it's very rare that someone with a 2 year education receives a professional license - not that a self study is the same as an education. a LPN can get a license in 2 years, but that's another group who twists terms. CNA's claiming to be nurses - people with CDA's claiming to be teachers. it makes NO SENSE!! be proud of what YOU have (not YOU pesonally), but don't go around claiming to have something/be something that you're NOT! if you claim to be something that you're not, it just shows that's what you really want to be - which makes me wonder.....why don't you do the work if you want the title? let's go ahead and give piano TEACHERS a discount and dance TEACHERS. hell, let's give the cashier who TEACHES us how the register works (joyce) lol! i'm gonna go put a band-aid on someone else's kid and start telling people i'm a NURSE!

the bottom line is, as nannyde was saying, use of the word "teacher" came about in childcare because it made the staff feel good and it made the parents feel like their children were being cared for by someone educated, someone who "knew what they were doing" because they took classes! nevermind the fact they weren't college classes and could've been taught by joe blow. i've always played along, but when we want to get technical about it, childcare providers are just that - childcare providers. EVEN if they're a childcare provider who did a two year "self study" and underwent AN observation.
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Old 01-07-2011, 07:07 AM
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i'm just wondering.....

as a home daycare provider, and a business owner, supplies i purchase are deductible on my taxes.

can teachers in public schools (whether pre-k or k-12) do that as well?
no, they can't - other than the $250 tax credit tom mentioned in his first post.

i've asked fifteen thousand times if the REAL issue here was TAXES and i found my answer in the silence.

teachers and homeschooling parents can't write off expenses. business owners/childcare providers can. THAT is the real deal.
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Old 01-07-2011, 07:23 AM
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Okay then. What about the preschool "teachers" who work for the school district that are unable to recieve the disounts? As Tom stated, even they do not qualify to recieve the discount.

And, QCare, in Ca. many of the state preschools (depends on the district standards) only require that you have a Master Teacher Permit to "teach"......not a BA....they don't get to claim expenses on their taxes.....they ARE teachers....but still do not get the discount....what about them? Do you think THEY should get the discount?
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Old 01-07-2011, 07:47 AM
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Okay then. What about the preschool "teachers" who work for the school district that are unable to recieve the disounts? As Tom stated, even they do not qualify to recieve the discount.

And, QCare, in Ca. many of the state preschools (depends on the district standards) only require that you have a Master Teacher Permit to "teach"......not a BA....they don't get to claim expenses on their taxes.....they ARE teachers....but still do not get the discount....what about them? Do you think THEY should get the discount?
actually, i think it's being blown a little bit out of proportion. i think when tom says "preschool" he's referring literally to children including daycare children who haven't started school yet.the policy of who can receive the disount at jo-ann's says:

•Currently state certified, credentialed or licensed teacher at any K-12 public, private or parochial school or higher education learning institution

that word "at" means any licensed teacher who works AT a public, private, or parochial school can receive the discount. if the preschool is in a public school and you are a licensed teacher, you would get the discount. you think preschool teachers ARE teachers even if they didn't go through all the school/exams/licensing standards to earn that title, and several other people *think* that way also - which is why i believe jo-ann's made a point to say "state certified, credentialed, or licensed teacher, etc, etc." so every person with a GED who worked at "little sprouts pre-school" couldn't come in and get a discount.
  #45  
Old 01-07-2011, 07:57 AM
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[quote=QualiTcare;69517]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
this is SO true! To actually become accredited, there are MANY quality indicators that a provider must meet. The provider must conduct their own self-study, which may take up to two years, and then undergo a very intensive observation by a qualified accredidation observer. Recieving the accredidation means that the provider is offering an excellent, above average program that meets the developmental needs of all of the children in care. I think an accredited provider would meet the distinction of being a "teacher"[/QUOTE]

but they don't. most every associate's degree known to man takes 2 years to complete and it's very rare that someone with a 2 year education receives a professional license - not that a self study is the same as an education. a LPN can get a license in 2 years, but that's another group who twists terms. CNA's claiming to be nurses - people with CDA's claiming to be teachers. it makes NO SENSE!! be proud of what YOU have (not YOU pesonally), but don't go around claiming to have something/be something that you're NOT! if you claim to be something that you're not, it just shows that's what you really want to be - which makes me wonder.....why don't you do the work if you want the title? let's go ahead and give piano TEACHERS a discount and dance TEACHERS. hell, let's give the cashier who TEACHES us how the register works (joyce) lol! i'm gonna go put a band-aid on someone else's kid and start telling people i'm a NURSE!

the bottom line is, as nannyde was saying, use of the word "teacher" came about in childcare because it made the staff feel good and it made the parents feel like their children were being cared for by someone educated, someone who "knew what they were doing" because they took classes! nevermind the fact they weren't college classes and could've been taught by joe blow. i've always played along, but when we want to get technical about it, childcare providers are just that - childcare providers. EVEN if they're a childcare provider who did a two year "self study" and underwent AN observation.
My work here is done
  #46  
Old 01-07-2011, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by QualiTcare View Post
actually, i think it's being blown a little bit out of proportion. i think when tom says "preschool" he's referring literally to children including daycare children who haven't started school yet.the policy of who can receive the disount at jo-ann's says:

•Currently state certified, credentialed or licensed teacher at any K-12 public, private or parochial school or higher education learning institution

that word "at" means any licensed teacher who works AT a public, private, or parochial school can receive the discount. if the preschool is in a public school and you are a licensed teacher, you would get the discount. you think preschool teachers ARE teachers even if they didn't go through all the school/exams/licensing standards to earn that title, and several other people *think* that way also - which is why i believe jo-ann's made a point to say "state certified, credentialed, or licensed teacher, etc, etc." so every person with a GED who worked at "little sprouts pre-school" couldn't come in and get a discount.
Oh and this too

I was thinking today how disrespectful this whole idea is.
  #47  
Old 01-07-2011, 08:07 AM
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Default "Teacher"

Is there a difference in credentials for those who educate children? Of course - BA, Masters, PhD, CDA, NAFCC accredited, QRS, and so on. Why is it so important to call some of them teachers and others not? Are we saying that the only way we can call someone a teacher of preschool children is if they have a post-secondary degree? Why this resistance to calling those who educate our children "teachers"?

The problem I have is that making this distinction between those who are "teachers" and those who are not is that by doing so we devalue the work that preschool teachers do. This is particularly disturbing when we know that children learn the most before they become schoolagers!

I'm not trying to devalue the work of school age teachers. I'm not disagreeing that some preschool teachers do a terrible job. I'm saying that what is important is that we recognize the importance of educating preschool children. This work is so important that the least we can do is call them teachers. If this raises the expectations of what preschool teachers should be doing, so be it.
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:16 AM
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I'm not trying to devalue the work of school age teachers. I'm not disagreeing that some preschool teachers do a terrible job. I'm saying that what is important is that we recognize the importance of educating preschool children. This work is so important that the least we can do is call them teachers. If this raises the expectations of what preschool teachers should be doing, so be it.
I think it's an area that needs to be talked about at the very least.

I wish I could have access to teacher programs at more than just Joannes. i am pretty sure Scholasic is the same way, and I would love to be able to offer book orders to my families and buy their books for my daycare.
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:31 AM
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I think it's an area that needs to be talked about at the very least.

I wish I could have access to teacher programs at more than just Joannes. i am pretty sure Scholasic is the same way, and I would love to be able to offer book orders to my families and buy their books for my daycare.
actually, you can.

i registered with scholastic as a HOME DAYCARE, not a TEACHER, because i'm not. i wasnt going to lie, so i didnt. they approved it, so i guess its o.k. i just did it recently, so we havent put an order in yet, but i'm looking foward to it!
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by DCMomOf3 View Post
I think it's an area that needs to be talked about at the very least.

I wish I could have access to teacher programs at more than just Joannes. i am pretty sure Scholasic is the same way, and I would love to be able to offer book orders to my families and buy their books for my daycare.
I've been doing book orders from Scholastic with my families for the last 7 years...wonderful program! I love it. We also collect Cambell's soup labels and get the rewards for them too. I participate in the Book-it program that the kids do in schools and earn free personal pan pizza's through Pizza Hut after they read so many books.
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:40 AM
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I think that I read somewhere that daycare providers CAN participate in scholastic books...

As for the original topic...if Joann's is discriminating, then what about Box Tops for Education? Are they discriminating? How about Target, who gives a portion of credit card sales to designated schools?

As business owners it is important to us to be able to draw our own line in the sand, I guess Joanne's is entitled to do the same.

PS: On another note, I'm grateful to Tom for his participation on our board and I really don't want anything anyone may have said to turn him off on our little group. Thank you Tom for all of your input. We really do appreciate your presence here.
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:48 AM
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The following places offer rewards to teachers and none seem to have any strict guidelines as to who is a teacher and who is not.

Staples
Barnes and Noble
Borders Bookstores
Michaels Crafts (every Friday, teachers get 15% off)
Hancock Fabrics
Office Max
Ben Franklin Crafts
Pizza Hut
The National Park systems

http://blog.bradsdeals.com/2010/08/1...s-to-teachers/
  #53  
Old 01-07-2011, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
The following places offer rewards to teachers and none seem to have any strict guidelines as to who is a teacher and who is not.

Staples
Barnes and Noble
Borders Bookstores
Michaels Crafts (every Friday, teachers get 15% off)
Hancock Fabrics
Office Max
Ben Franklin Crafts
Pizza Hut
The Nationa Park systems

http://blog.bradsdeals.com/2010/08/1...s-to-teachers/
Thanks Blackcat! I knew about Staples, as I have a discount card (not for my daycare, but because I homeschool and have for 4 years now) but I didn't know about the rest of them!
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Old 01-07-2011, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by TomCopeland View Post
Is there a difference in credentials for those who educate children? Of course - BA, Masters, PhD, CDA, NAFCC accredited, QRS, and so on. Why is it so important to call some of them teachers and others not? Are we saying that the only way we can call someone a teacher of preschool children is if they have a post-secondary degree? Why this resistance to calling those who educate our children "teachers"?

The problem I have is that making this distinction between those who are "teachers" and those who are not is that by doing so we devalue the work that preschool teachers do. This is particularly disturbing when we know that children learn the most before they become schoolagers!

I'm not trying to devalue the work of school age teachers. I'm not disagreeing that some preschool teachers do a terrible job. I'm saying that what is important is that we recognize the importance of educating preschool children. This work is so important that the least we can do is call them teachers. If this raises the expectations of what preschool teachers should be doing, so be it.
So who gets to draw the line? Apparently not jo-ann's. So do dance teachers and piano teachers get a discount too by your standards? Seriously, where IS the line?

Nobody is saying what childcare providers do isn't important! It is! It's just NOT THE SAME. And if it is the same, why on earth do they make teachers spend 4 years in college? I can't count how many times I've seen providers here say,"suzy's mom wants to know why she doesn't know her letters. I don't get paid to teach blah blah blah" You seem to be implying that what providers do may be more important since the first 5 years are the most crucial. This is the same line of thinking CNAs have toward nurses. They're the ones who clean poop and vomit and the nurses are the ones getting paid the big bucks and get all the "luxuries." I say the same thing to them, if you want the "luxury" that the nurse has (or teacher) then go to college for four years and share in the "luxury" of all the sacrifice and debt that goes along with the title.

SOOO how about the fact that keeps being ignored that this probably has squat to do with status and everything to do with taxes?
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Old 01-07-2011, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
I've been doing book orders from Scholastic with my families for the last 7 years...wonderful program! I love it. We also collect Cambell's soup labels and get the rewards for them too. I participate in the Book-it program that the kids do in schools and earn free personal pan pizza's through Pizza Hut after they read so many books.
Same here; I guess that's why I'm not too stressed over this subject. If I don't get a discount a JoAnn, I'll just go to Michael's or Office Max where they do give me a teacher's discount.

Defining a what a 'teacher' is aside, I think JoAnn is missing a marketing opportunity. In this economic climate why wouldn't they want to get as many people in the door as possible?
  #56  
Old 01-07-2011, 10:55 AM
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Same here; I guess that's why I'm not too stressed over this subject. If I don't get a discount a JoAnn, I'll just go to Michael's or Office Max where they do give me a teacher's discount.

Defining a what a 'teacher' is aside, I think JoAnn is missing a marketing opportunity. In this economic climate why wouldn't they want to get as many people in the door as possible?

Dcmom, I think it would be safe to assume that other retailers who have extended the discount to providers have the same policy as jo-ann's and the discretion is left up to the cashier or the person issuing the card. I say this bc I followed the links tom gives in his articles and saw several providers say they DO get a discount at jo-ann's even though according to the policy on their website, they shouldn't. Apparently the manager at the particular store this lady went to is a stickler and that's what the fuss is about. It wouldn"t surprise me one bit if instead of extending the policy to all providers, this heat didn't cause jo-ann's to send a memo to all the stores reminding them of the policy that states ONLY teachers be offered the discount. Give someone an inch, they take a mile. You have to be careful what you wish for.

On another note, if the line was extended officially to include providers, should it include unlicensed providers also? Afterall, they do the same job don't they?

Last edited by QualiTcare; 01-07-2011 at 11:00 AM.
  #57  
Old 01-07-2011, 12:05 PM
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The following places offer rewards to teachers and none seem to have any strict guidelines as to who is a teacher and who is not.

Staples
Barnes and Noble
Borders Bookstores
Michaels Crafts (every Friday, teachers get 15% off)
Hancock Fabrics
Office Max
Ben Franklin Crafts
Pizza Hut
The Nationa Park systems

http://blog.bradsdeals.com/2010/08/1...s-to-teachers/
Yes....I particpate in Borders ( a whopping 30% discount!!!), staples, office max, pizza hut book it beginners, and scholastic. I just passed out book orders today, I have participated for 13 years and have recieved HUNDREDS of dollars in books, toys an equipment.

I am glad to know Michaels participates. They have the same stuff as Joanne's, so I will be sure to frequent Michaels for my supplies from now on.

Oh, and VERY glad to know about the National Parks, we frequent National Parks numerous times each year, so I'll certainly be looking into that!
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:07 PM
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I think that I read somewhere that daycare providers CAN participate in scholastic books...

As for the original topic...if Joann's is discriminating, then what about Box Tops for Education? Are they discriminating? How about Target, who gives a portion of credit card sales to designated schools?

As business owners it is important to us to be able to draw our own line in the sand, I guess Joanne's is entitled to do the same.

PS: On another note, I'm grateful to Tom for his participation on our board and I really don't want anything anyone may have said to turn him off on our little group. Thank you Tom for all of your input. We really do appreciate your presence here.
You can particpate in box tops.

As far as Target type programs, those are for non-profit schools, not individual teachers.

Sure, I agree Joanne's can "draw the line in the sand", just as we can. And, by doing so, they may lose potential clientele, just as we might if we do not offer parents what they want.
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Old 01-07-2011, 01:04 PM
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Yes....I particpate in Borders ( a whopping 30% discount!!!), staples, office max, pizza hut book it beginners, and scholastic. I just passed out book orders today, I have participated for 13 years and have recieved HUNDREDS of dollars in books, toys an equipment.

I am glad to know Michaels participates. They have the same stuff as Joanne's, so I will be sure to frequent Michaels for my supplies from now on.
Oh, and VERY glad to know about the National Parks, we frequent National Parks numerous times each year, so I'll certainly be looking into that!
true - i don't think i'd even want to shop somewhere that i had to break (not twist) their arm to get them to "accept" me.
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Old 01-07-2011, 01:32 PM
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You can particpate in box tops.

As far as Target type programs, those are for non-profit schools, not individual teachers.

Sure, I agree Joanne's can "draw the line in the sand", just as we can. And, by doing so, they may lose potential clientele, just as we might if we do not offer parents what they want.
Hmmm...I didn't know that we could participate in box-tops.

As for the second part, I agree with you. I think that they will most likely lose a few over the whole deal.
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Old 01-07-2011, 01:33 PM
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Is there a difference in credentials for those who educate children? Of course - BA, Masters, PhD, CDA, NAFCC accredited, QRS, and so on. Why is it so important to call some of them teachers and others not? Are we saying that the only way we can call someone a teacher of preschool children is if they have a post-secondary degree? Why this resistance to calling those who educate our children "teachers"?

The problem I have is that making this distinction between those who are "teachers" and those who are not is that by doing so we devalue the work that preschool teachers do. This is particularly disturbing when we know that children learn the most before they become schoolagers!

I'm not trying to devalue the work of school age teachers. I'm not disagreeing that some preschool teachers do a terrible job. I'm saying that what is important is that we recognize the importance of educating preschool children. This work is so important that the least we can do is call them teachers. If this raises the expectations of what preschool teachers should be doing, so be it.
This is a really good article: http://www.heraldsun.com/view/full_s...e=main_article

Terry Stoops is an education analyst for the John Locke Foundation, a Raleigh-based organization with conservative leanings. When he reads some of the same preschool studies that advocates are using to argue for these programs, he sees a phenomenon known as "fadeout." In other words, academic gains that preschoolers register seem to disappear by the time those children reach middle school, if not much sooner.

"What is happening here is that we're spending millions -- hundreds of millions -- of dollars on programs that aren't helping students read any better, do math any better, basically enhance their education," Stoops said.

A federal study released in January backs his position. "The benefits of access to Head Start are largely absent by first grade for the program population as a whole," the authors reported. For those entering Head Start as 3-year-olds, "there are few sustained benefits, although access to the program may lead to improved parent-child relationships."

The study found some lasting benefits for certain groups, such as children with disabilities or with extremely low cognitive skills. But there were also negative effects associated with attending Head Start.

Supporters of early childhood education say that the interventions they tout benefit youngsters in ways that don't show up on standardized tests.

"Really, the verdict is still out," Stoops said. "But from what we have available, all indications seem to be that most students aren't getting much of a benefit from these programs."


"We certainly support pre-kindergarten programs for desperately poor students who lack functioning parents," he said. But tax dollars helping any other children could have a much greater impact if they were instead funneled into vouchers or tax credits that parents could use to pay for child care, Stoops asserts


Before we get to the notion that preschool is so valuable why don't we get some research to prove it is?

I don't believe that preschool is the answer in early childhood. I think the parents are the TEACHERS for their children. I think there are a lot better things to invest billions of dollars into to give our kids the best chance of being good students.

Kids need an early childhood of close proximal supervision, excellent nutrition, free play, outdoor exercise, GOOD DEEP SLEEP, discipline, and affection. They need good CARE. If they have an early childhood of good care they will be great students. Good care CAN include "education" but it will not further them academically.

At the age of five/six the kids are ready for academics. For hundreds of years we have understood this is the age to begin their "education". Nothing has changed with this generation of students. They aren't more evolved at two/three/four then they were a hundred years ago. You can't cheat mother nature. We are humans and human babies and toddlers don't prosper from early "education". They prosper from good care in the areas I listed above.

We HAVE to get back to the basics. We aren't doing better after a couple of decades of "early education". We are failing our children because we aren't supporting what REALLY matters in raising quality kids.
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Old 01-07-2011, 03:38 PM
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Default New Blog Post on Jo-Ann Fabric and Crafts

I've just written a new blog post on this controversy. I've gotten the contact of the person at Jo-Ann Fabric who is in charge of their teacher program and I've written her a letter. I've posted a poll about this issue as well.
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Old 01-07-2011, 03:46 PM
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I like that distinction. Maybe the reason they want to give discounts to K-12 teachers is that they struggle with low wages that they have no control over due to budget cuts. We, as self-employed Providers, have much more control about how much we make. We can raise rates or take more kids, increase our hours, etc.
In my area, I am more likely to get parents receiving state assistance and in Oklahoma, the state sets the rate. I'm also limited to 7 kids and right now two of my own kids count in that number. I understand that I could increase my income by raising my rates, but finding parents who can pay them is nearly impossible. I am more-or-less set limited in the amount of income I can make.
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Old 01-07-2011, 04:11 PM
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I'll say here what I said in my response to a post on Facebook.

I don't think this is so much about the discount as it is about the general attitude toward the Early Childhood community. Many of us have college educations and provide the foundations in learning for the children in our care. We aren't just "babysitters" as we're often called. A babysitter is the teenager that watches tv with your kids for a couple of hours while you have a night out with your spouse. Its a respect issue.
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Old 01-07-2011, 04:59 PM
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I'll say here what I said in my response to a post on Facebook.

I don't think this is so much about the discount as it is about the general attitude toward the Early Childhood community. Many of us have college educations and provide the foundations in learning for the children in our care. We aren't just "babysitters" as we're often called. A babysitter is the teenager that watches tv with your kids for a couple of hours while you have a night out with your spouse. Its a respect issue.
exactly, it's a respect issue which is probably why jo-ann's has made the distinction. would it affect the pockets of teachers if daycare providers got the discount? no. as you said, it's a respect issue.

you can not call yourself a doctor if you are not a licensed doctor. you can't call yourself a nurse unless you are a licensed nurse. you can not call yourself a lawyer unless you hold a license to practice law. not only can you not say you are a doctor, nurse, or lawyer when you do not hold the license, but there are legal ramifications including jail if you do. so, why people think it's okay to throw the title of teacher around all willy-nilly is beyond me. i worked in daycare for years before i became a teacher, and i did it for awhile afterward. in my years as a daycare provider i never thought of myself as a teacher and would never have told someone who asked what i did for a living that i was a teacher. i had co-workers who when asked outside of work what they did, they would say, "i'm a pre-school teacher." it's deceptive to put it lightly.
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Old 01-07-2011, 05:11 PM
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But, QCare, if the provider IS, by state definitions(not YOUR definition) a Preschool Teacher, then WHY should they NOT call themselves a teacher?

I agree that the "lady down the street" that cares for kids, who has absolutley no ECE background whatsoever should not call herself a teacher, but if the state defines you as a teacher and you have earned a credential, offered by the state, then you should call yourself a teacher.

I am a child care provider AND a teacher. I have children who come to my program 3 hours a day, specifically for preschool.

WHY should I not be called a teacher? Because YOU say so? Sorry, the State says I am and your opinion of it is worthless to me.
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Old 01-07-2011, 05:13 PM
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But, QCare, if the provider IS, by state definitions(not YOUR definition) a Preschool Teacher, then WHY should they NOT call themselves a teacher?

I agree that the "lady down the street" that cares for kids, who has absolutley no ECE background whatsoever should not call herself a teacher, but if the state defines you as a teacher and you have earned a credential, offered by the state, then you should call yourself a teacher.

I am a child care provider AND a teacher. I have children who come to my program 3 hours a day, specifically for preschool.

WHY should I not be called a teacher? Because YOU say so? Sorry, the State says I am and your opinion of it is worthless to me.

crystal, in the example that i gave, they were NOT preschool teachers. they worked at a DAYCARE and had NO education. apparently, you are qualified to teach preschool in your neck of the woods, so YOU would be a "preschool TEACHER."

although you are a rare case and still deceptive with the lingo.

Last edited by QualiTcare; 01-07-2011 at 05:15 PM.
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Old 01-07-2011, 05:27 PM
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You can particpate in box tops.

As far as Target type programs, those are for non-profit schools, not individual teachers.

Sure, I agree Joanne's can "draw the line in the sand", just as we can. And, by doing so, they may lose potential clientele, just as we might if we do not offer parents what they want.
I went to the boxtops website and here is what they say about eligibility:

Eligibility

The Box Tops for Education® program is open to any accredited public, private or parochial school, containing any class with students from Kindergarten to 8th grade, in the United States and Puerto Rico organized and primarily operated for educational purposes and to any United States military school, containing any class with students from Kindergarten to 8th grade, worldwide. It is also available to home school associations, containing any class with students from Kindergarten to 8th grade, in the United States organized and operated primarily for educational purposes and have 15 or more students.


How in the world are you able to do boxtops?
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Old 01-07-2011, 05:35 PM
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crystal, in the example that i gave, they were NOT preschool teachers. they worked at a DAYCARE and had NO education. apparently, you are qualified to teach preschool in your neck of the woods, so YOU would be a "preschool TEACHER."

although you are a rare case and still deceptive with the lingo.

How is she being deceptive with her lingo?? Just because she TEACHES children out of her home, it doesn't mean she's not really teaching them.

Your attitude towards the whole situation just further proves that point that society and apparently Jo-Anns sees licensed/registered/accredited childcare providers as nothing more than glorified BABYSITTERS. The fact that we plan a curriculum and activities (just like the "real" teachers in a "real" school) doesn't seem to matter. It's all in one person's opinion of what makes a teacher. And the fact that anyone who chooses to homeschool there child is considered more of a teacher than a provider who is essentially "homeschooling" several children is preposterous.
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Old 01-07-2011, 05:42 PM
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How is she being deceptive with her lingo?? Just because she TEACHES children out of her home, it doesn't mean she's not really teaching them.

Your attitude towards the whole situation just further proves that point that society and apparently Jo-Anns sees licensed/registered/accredited childcare providers as nothing more than glorified BABYSITTERS. The fact that we plan a curriculum and activities (just like the "real" teachers in a "real" school) doesn't seem to matter. It's all in one person's opinion of what makes a teacher. And the fact that anyone who chooses to homeschool there child is considered more of a teacher than a provider who is essentially "homeschooling" several children is preposterous.
i wasn't referring to that one post in particular, but over a period of time.


i've been both a child care provider and a teacher and the job descriptions are not "just alike."

furthermore, i've said it since the beginning, but nobody responds - i don't think the issue is that "anyone who chooses to homeschool "there" child is considered more of a teacher than a provider." i think the issue is that public schools, private schools, and parents who homeschool are not doing it for a PROFIT.

let's just pretend i didn't say that...again.
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Old 01-07-2011, 05:51 PM
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I went to the boxtops website and here is what they say about eligibility:

Eligibility

The Box Tops for Education® program is open to any accredited public, private or parochial school, containing any class with students from Kindergarten to 8th grade, in the United States and Puerto Rico organized and primarily operated for educational purposes and to any United States military school, containing any class with students from Kindergarten to 8th grade, worldwide. It is also available to home school associations, containing any class with students from Kindergarten to 8th grade, in the United States organized and operated primarily for educational purposes and have 15 or more students.


How in the world are you able to do boxtops?
You're right. My bad. I got that info from a friend....I should have checked it first.
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Old 01-07-2011, 06:51 PM
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You're right. My bad. I got that info from a friend....I should have checked it first.
Darn - I was really hoping that they changed eligibility!! I would love to do boxtops for daycare. We used to do it for our homeschool group, but our group broke up.

I could be wrong, but I think you might be able to do labels for education for homeschool or daycare. Don't quote me on it though.
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Old 01-07-2011, 07:50 PM
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On another note, if the line was extended officially to include providers, should it include unlicensed providers also? Afterall, they do the same job don't they?[/quote]

I would say no to the unlicensed providers, because in Oklahoma its against the law to operate a childcare without a license. And I'm sorry, but although we don't pay for the actual license, it does cost money to maintain a compliant childcare and I don't think that someone who doesn't take the time to be legal should be given anything that licensed providers are given. However, that would start a whole other issue as I know some states don't require licenses and other states have varying degrees of registration/licensure.
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Old 01-07-2011, 07:54 PM
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furthermore, i've said it since the beginning, but nobody responds - i don't think the issue is that "anyone who chooses to homeschool "there" child is considered more of a teacher than a provider." i think the issue is that public schools, private schools, and parents who homeschool are not doing it for a PROFIT.

let's just pretend i didn't say that...again.[/quote]

Then Jo-Ann's could clear that up very easily by simply making the discount a non-profit discount and not specify which type of non-profit it applies to. I sure there are other non-profit organizations out there that would love the discount, but don't have licensed teachers on staff.
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:16 PM
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"I would say no to the unlicensed providers, because in Oklahoma its against the law to operate a childcare without a license. And I'm sorry, but although we don't pay for the actual license, it does cost money to maintain a compliant childcare and I don't think that someone who doesn't take the time to be legal should be given anything that licensed providers are given. However, that would start a whole other issue as I know some states don't require licenses and other states have varying degrees of registration/licensure."


BINGO! apparently, some people think that someone who doesn't take the time to get a teaching license should be given anything they are given.

it's the same concept. it's clear that drawing a line is OK - as long as it's on the provider's side of the sand.

Last edited by QualiTcare; 01-07-2011 at 08:21 PM.
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:18 PM
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"Then Jo-Ann's could clear that up very easily by simply making the discount a non-profit discount and not specify which type of non-profit it applies to. I sure there are other non-profit organizations out there that would love the discount, but don't have licensed teachers on staff."



most employees of non-profit agencies aren't notorious for spending money out of their paycheck to buy craft/art supplies.
it appears to me that they've already made their policy pretty clear - some people just can't take no for an answer.

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Old 01-08-2011, 10:29 AM
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geez QCare, you are pretty passionate about this. Got a side job with Joanne's? LOL!
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Old 01-08-2011, 11:07 AM
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geez QCare, you are pretty passionate about this. Got a side job with Joanne's? LOL!
yeah, i am! apparently, several people are, but i'm ALMOST the only one with an opposing view. personally, for the zillionth time, i don't think it has jack to do with status. i think it has to do with the fact that providers are business owners and can write off the items as an expense.

secondly, i'm a teacher, and it's annoying enough that this is one of the only professions in the world where when you tell someone what you do for a living, they follow up with 10 more questions to clarify BECAUSE the word "teacher" has been abused so badly by childcare providers who aren't proud enough of their own profession to say, "I'm a CHILDCARE PROVIDER!"

when someone says they're a doctor, you don't have to say "a doctor, doctor?" when someone says they're a lawyer, you don't have to ask, "a lawyer? like one who passed the bar?" you get the point.

now, THAT's not enough. "we deserve the same benefits, too! all of them! down to a measly discount at ONE singled out store!" it just irritates me because i see so many providers online make snide remarks about how good teachers have it and how easy their jobs are, blah blah blah. but then they turn around and call themselves teachers, gripe about wanting the "respect" teachers get, and i'm sure wouldn't mind having teacher's support for this little "cause."

it's actually pitiful now that i think about it. but what the heck, at least there's some publicity coming from all of this!

Last edited by QualiTcare; 01-08-2011 at 11:17 AM. Reason: to add ALMOST!
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Old 01-08-2011, 11:26 AM
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yeah, i am! apparently, several people are, but i'm ALMOST the only one with an opposing view. personally, for the zillionth time, i don't think it has jack to do with status. i think it has to do with the fact that providers are business owners and can write off the items as an expense.
I'm one that's with ya. Most everything you've said is how I see it.
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Old 01-08-2011, 03:58 PM
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I'm one that's with ya. Most everything you've said is how I see it.
me too.

my sister and i are both high school graduates with no college behind us.

i work from home, so i'm a childcare provider. because she works at a center she's a teacher.
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Old 01-08-2011, 04:53 PM
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me too.

my sister and i are both high school graduates with no college behind us.

i work from home, so i'm a childcare provider. because she works at a center she's a teacher.
are you being sarcastic?
  #82  
Old 01-10-2011, 06:13 AM
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I understand the distinctions everyone is making about credentials and certificates, etc. What I don't understand is what Jo-Ann's has to lose by offering this discount? They may lose a small amount of profit. However, they will make up that profit in HUGE amounts by increasing the number of shoppers who will begin making purchases at their stores because Jo-Ann's offers them an advantage that other fabric/craft stores do not. AND they will gain the goodwill of the people who are put off by this topic. Plus, they will encourage store loyalty, which is huge nowadays. Positive marketing benefits companies to no end.
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Old 01-10-2011, 04:15 PM
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Thumbs up Discrimination at Jo-Ann's Fabric's & Crafts

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Tom what does this mean? "The way to overcome this ignorance is to be proactive in educating others about the positive impact preschool teachers make on the lives of young children. All the research supports this."

What research are you refferring to?

I have to agree with JoAnn's on this. The child care industry has done this to themselves. The misues of the word teacher has finally been CAUGHT by big business.

In my State you can have a Center with three hundred kids and not have a single person in the building that has even a GED except for the director who has to have a high school diploma.

Every single center in my area calls their staff teachers. The staff can walk into the building without a high school education and not even a GED and within a couple of days of background checking and a physical they can be put into a room and be called Teacher from that day on. The amount of "education" they have to have is a two hour child abuse class and by the anniversary of their first year of service they have to have tweleve hours of CHILD CARE classes that are NOT college classes. When I say twelve hours I mean twelve sixty minute hours. THAT'S IT.

The state of Iowa does NOT regulate that term. The Centers use the word because it makes them money. It makes the parents feel like their child is with an educated person.

I can't speak to the home schooling part because I don't know their reasoning for that but I say cheers to them for taking a stand on this term that is so misused.

I hope you haven't been smitten by the research on poor kids and early childhood intervention. YES preschool is valuable to children who are the poorest of the poor and who live in underprivledged environments. Other than that subsect of the population, I haven't found any research to back up that preschool makes any signficant difference in any measurable life outcome for lower middle class, middle class, upper middle class, or wealthy children. That's the blunt of our kid population.

You said: Are Family Child Care Providers Teachers?
Jacqueline Crocker always thought so. She has been a licensed family child care provider in the Kansas City area for over 20 years. She is accredited by the National Association for Family Child Care (NAFCC)

Here is the NAFCC's Eligibility criteria: http://www.sncs.org/downloads/provid...pplication.pdf


Be at least 21 years of age. Have a high school diploma or GED.
Provide care to children for a minimum of 15 hours per week.
Provide care to a minimum of three children in a home environment.
At least one child must not reside in the provider’s home.
Be the primary caregiver, spending at least 80% of the operating hours actively involved with the children.
Co-providers must spend at least 60% of the time actively involved with the children.
Have at least 12 months experience as a family child care provider. Meet the highest level of regulation to operate a family child care program by the authorized regulatory body.
Be in compliance with all regulations of the authorized regulatory body . Have a favorable state and federal criminal history.
Be in good health in order to provide a nurturing and stable environment for children.
Maintain a current CPR and Pediatric First Aid certification. Adhere to the NAEYC Code of Ethical Conduct .

You see why JoAnn's doesn't accept that as proof of being a teacher?
Nannyde, I notice you left out the most important part of being NAFCC accredited. As a NAFCC accredited provider since 1996, I can tell you it's not that easy. You failed to mention the 120 hours of Early Childhood Development training an accredited provider has to take every 3 years. I personally know Jacqueline who is not a family childcare provider, but an excellent preschool teacher.

From reading your blog about the childcare center and "no one" has a GED, and the care for 300 kids. Then you mention NAEYC, which is for centers. To top it off, you think preschool it only good for school who are "poor". It shows that you really don't have any idea what you are talking about. If you would like to understand that we are teachers, please come spend a day with us.

I agree that it's time for Jo-Ann to stop discriminating against licensed childcare providers, as Early Educators of young children.

Last edited by Michael; 01-10-2011 at 08:18 PM.
  #84  
Old 01-10-2011, 05:59 PM
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why not just go to school for appx. 1,000 hours per year for 4 years straight?

problem solved! no "convincing" required.
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Old 01-10-2011, 08:17 PM
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Nannyde, I notice you left out the most important part of being NAFCC accredited. As a NAFCC accredited provider since 1996, I can tell you it's not that easy. You failed to mention the 120 hours of Early Childhood Development training an accredited provider has to take every 3 years. I personally know Jacqueline who is not a family childcare provider, but an excellent preschool teacher.

From reading your blog about the childcare center and "no one" has a GED, and the care for 300 kids. Then you mention NAEYC, which is for centers. To top it off, you think preschool it only good for school who are "poor". It shows that you really don't have any idea what you are talking about. If you would like to understand that we are teachers, please come spend a day with us.

I agree that it's time for Jo-Ann to stop discriminating against licensed childcare providers, as Early Educators of young children.
Welcome to the Daycare.com Forum CC27. First off Nannyde does know what she is talking about but has a differing opinion. Your first post here should not be a personal attack on one of our members but constructive criticism. We frown upon the former here.
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Old 01-11-2011, 03:04 AM
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Nannyde, I notice you left out the most important part of being NAFCC accredited. As a NAFCC accredited provider since 1996, I can tell you it's not that easy. You failed to mention the 120 hours of Early Childhood Development training an accredited provider has to take every 3 years. I personally know Jacqueline who is not a family childcare provider, but an excellent preschool teacher.

From reading your blog about the childcare center and "no one" has a GED, and the care for 300 kids. Then you mention NAEYC, which is for centers. To top it off, you think preschool it only good for school who are "poor". It shows that you really don't have any idea what you are talking about. If you would like to understand that we are teachers, please come spend a day with us.

I agree that it's time for Jo-Ann to stop discriminating against licensed childcare providers, as Early Educators of young children.
You obviously didn't read what I said. In my State you can have a Center with three hundred kids and not have a single person in the building that has even a GED except for the director who has to have a high school diploma.

Here's my States Center regs: The personell requirements start on page 46. Read em and weep.

http://www.dhs.state.ia.us/policyana...er/comm204.pdf

I was wrong about one thing though. The Center director doesn't have to have a high school diploma either. She can have a GED too When obtaining her 100 points to be qualified she doesn't have to have any in the education points other than a business class (total twelve clock hours) or proof of business administration experience.

You said: You failed to mention the 120 hours of Early Childhood Development training an accredited provider.

Taking day care clock hours classes is NOT the same as college. You can't compare it. I've been through four years of college and over 250 hours of day care classes and I can tell you not ONE of the day care hours was ANYWHERE NEAR the level of difficulty as a General Biology course in college.

You can't compare it to getting a Bachellors Degree in early childhood education. It's a rediculous comparison.

I'm not saying it's not "hard"... I'm saying the education you get doesn't warrant you the job of TEACHER.

If you want to be called Teacher then go to real college and take a real four year degree program and be a real teacher.

You said: you think preschool it only good for school who are "poor". It shows that you really don't have any idea what you are talking about.

Show me. Show me the way. Teach me. Show me any longitudinal study on preschool education and how it results in ANY significant long term difference in the measurable outcomes of kids in reading, math, science, writing, etc. Core academic subjects. Not little bits of some reading scores... but fully in reading, writing, math, social studies, science. Show me how kids who have preschool graduate at a higher rate, have less crimal activity, have higher grades beyond second grade, have less teen pregnancy, have higher gradution rates in college, score higher in any grade level beyond second grade in standardized tests.

Show me how that happens because I can't find it. Show me a study that is not poor kids and disadvantaged kids and show me what preschool does for them. If we are going to put billions of dollars into it then we got to get SOMETHING out of it. Something in the way of EDUCATION.

Until then I will hold steadfast that we need to STOP taking research from poor kids and apply it to the reasoning for early education for the rest of the population.

My opinion is that there isn't anything out there to show non poor kids benefit in any measurable way to preschool because the truth is they don't. We always believe that early is better but in this case I don't believe it is. I don't think you can cheat mother nature. Kids are ready for school when they are five/six years old. You can teach them some of the skills before five/six but it won't make them better or "ahead" students in second, third, fourth, eigth, ninth, grade.

What kids need birth to five is good CARE. We need to subsidize good CARE.
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Old 01-11-2011, 03:17 AM
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Welcome to the Daycare.com Forum CC27. First off Nannyde does know what she is talking about but has a differing opinion. Your first post here should not be a personal attack on one of our members but constructive criticism. We frown upon the former here.
It's okay Michael.

If she is the one who can show us the way in research that proves preschool gives an educational sustained benefit beyond "desperately poor students who lack functioning parents" then I will be here to take the blows. I want to know it. I've spent thousands of hours reaearching it and I simply can't find it. If she knows and she will share it with us then she has a position that is worth hearing.
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Old 01-11-2011, 09:57 AM
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New blog post from my social media consultant - Jo-Ann Fabric and Crafts Stumbles in Social Media Dust Up - http://tinyurl.com/4uzz97a
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  #89  
Old 01-11-2011, 10:15 AM
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BRAVO!!!!!
  #90  
Old 01-11-2011, 10:16 AM
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I've been doing book orders from Scholastic with my families for the last 7 years...wonderful program! I love it. We also collect Cambell's soup labels and get the rewards for them too. I participate in the Book-it program that the kids do in schools and earn free personal pan pizza's through Pizza Hut after they read so many books.
Wow! good to know. Love it! I get discounts from everywhere I ask like Barnes and Noble, Curriculum stores, and on and on...
  #91  
Old 01-11-2011, 10:20 AM
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It's okay Michael.

If she is the one who can show us the way in research that proves preschool gives an educational sustained benefit beyond "desperately poor students who lack functioning parents" then I will be here to take the blows. I want to know it. I've spent thousands of hours reaearching it and I simply can't find it. If she knows and she will share it with us then she has a position that is worth hearing.
thousands of hours?! wow! i will let you borrow my discount card
  #92  
Old 01-11-2011, 10:28 AM
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QCare....are you teaching now? I can't recall what you said you were doing after you quit daycare.
  #93  
Old 01-11-2011, 11:06 AM
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QCare....are you teaching now? I can't recall what you said you were doing after you quit daycare.
No, I'm not teaching now. I'm in a second degree program working on my BSN. I still have several discount cards and my license is active, but I don't really have a use for them - I was just joking with Nan.
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:16 AM
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Oh, I know you were joking. I was just curious.

How's school?
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:35 AM
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why not just go to school for appx. 1,000 hours per year for 4 years straight?

problem solved! no "convincing" required.
DISCLAIMER: I am only using myself as an example here because I do not have anyone here to use as an example, as I do not know most member’s level of education. I am NOT using myself as an example to indicate that I am better in any way. I realize that there are MANY providers who have far higher levels of education and qualifications thatn I do, however I do not have those provider’s information.

QCare, I agree with you about the work and commitment that "teachers" put into their education. But, I don't believe it is necessary to have that B.A. distinction to define a teacher.

You say " why not just go to school for appx. 1,000 hours per year for 4 years straight?"

Well, I have done that. I don't have my B.A. but I have done that.

FTR, I may only have an AA, but I have more than 90 ECE and Gen Ed units....only 36 are required to hold an AA. I just chose to continue my ed at the community college level rather that the University, mostly because the CC is less than a mile from my house. I am however starting school in two weeks, working on my Master's Degree. In addition to this I have more than 30 CEU'S and 100's of hours in trainings via workshops and seminars.

I am a Mentor Teacher for the CECMP, a "lab school" if you will for students in the practicum phase of their college studies. Most recently I have been selected to develop and present workshops for the Director Mentor program.

I conduct Environmental Rating Scale Assessments for our local R&R and work as an independent consultant for Head Start as well.
I have had an article published by the CAEYC and presented workshops for them too.

So, I am MORE than qualified to be a TEACHER and am proud to present myself as such. And, MANY other providers have done as much or WAY MORE than I have...they deserve that TITLE as well. Yet, Joann'es, as well as a FEW others feel the feel they have the authority to define what a teacher is.

In the end, if it really mattered what Joanne's, you, and my favorite nemesis Nannyde (kidding ) thought, I'd be insulted And, in the end, Joanne’s can choose to exclude (here’s a term for you instead of teacher) Early Childhood Educators from receiving their small discount, and in the end Early Childhood Educator’s can choose to exclude Joanne’s from their list of stores to purchase supplies from.
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:44 AM
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Crystal,

Where are you going to school for your Masters? I've never heard of a Master's program that allows individuals without a BA/BS. My husband is adding a Masters in SPED to his BA in History and he still had to take a few additional classes before he was admitted in to the Masters Program.
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:54 AM
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I am attending Pacific Oaks. If you have been working with children for 10 years and have a minimum of 60 trasferrable units you may apply to Pacific Oaks and request a Credit For Life Experience Bachelor's requirement waiver and move directly into the Master's program.I have to document those ten years of experience though, as well.

I have spoken with numerous members of college faculty and the Dean of ECE at a few community colleges who said they would choose a Pacific Oaks graduate to teach at their college in a heartbeat. So, I decided to go for it!
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:59 AM
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Don't take this personally, but I HATE when colleges do that. It really takes away from those who had to earn those 120 credits and demeans integrity of a Master's degree in my opinion. It doesn't happen in careers that are deemed "professional" and when it happens in other areas, like early childhood education, it just belittles the profession even further. You don't hear of a doctor, lawyer or CPA getting "life experience" credit.
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:03 PM
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thousands of hours?! wow! i will let you borrow my discount card
NOT kidding. I've read every study I can get my hands on. I've even read years of the Head Start data... that's mind numbing. I should get an honorary Masters degree JUST for reading the Head Start research.

I've been looking for it and I can't find it. If anyone here knows of any longitudinal studies on preschool that do NOT focus on poor kids or poor African American male children PLEASE post it.

I want to see PROOF that children who attend full academic preschool programs between the ages of three and five show a significant difference in measurable standardized testing outcomes in math, reading, science, social studies, and writing beyond the entry into second grade.

NOT poor kids. I'm specifically interested in lower middle class, middle class, upper middle class, and upper class children.
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:05 PM
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Don't take this personally, but I HATE when colleges do that. It really takes away from those who had to earn those 120 credits and demeans integrity of a Master's degree in my opinion. It doesn't happen in careers that are deemed "professional" and when it happens in other areas, like early childhood education, it just belittles the profession even further. You don't hear of a doctor, lawyer or CPA getting "life experience" credit.
I don't take that personally. And, I hear ya. I can see where there would be some controversy. The thing is though, many of the student's in this program do have the coursework behind them, but they do not hold a B.A. I am close in having that many units. I think it comes down to be able to prove your competence in the field. If you can demonstarte competence, then I think there should be some allowance for life experience. And, this is a Professional Degree....it will allow me to teach at the college level.

One thing I find funny about it is you will, quite often, hear providers complaining that experience is more valuable than education, but when something like this comes up, they'll decide that you really do need the education, rather than the experience. Especially if it is another provider they do not care for who is embracing the opportunity. (don't take that personally, it wasn't directed at you)
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