Rent/Own/Size/Etc...

[PitterPatter]

I was just curious as to how many in home providers actually own their home or rent. Do u have apartments or houses? If u rent do u have any problems with landlords or property issues regarding the daycare business? Can a landlord stop u from having a daycare? Do u have to inform the landlord in the 1st place?

I started thinking about all of these questions this weekend. I found out a lady that lives in an elderly home (tower apartments) is a registered provider through the state. She has a 3 room apartment and no yard just the small patio for the whole aparment complex to share. She is permitted 2 children in care at 1 time. How is this possible? Aren't there laws like u have to have a yard and play equipment? How do they get enough exercise? I know my number of children permitted are based on square footage. I have seen the rooms in that building (not hers but they are the same) they are small. Lv rm, tiny kitchen, bdrm, and tiny bath. That's it! Isn't that too small for 2 kids?

[cheerfuldom]

I found out about one woman doing daycare in a rental and I called the place just to see what the rule was and they were not happy to find out she was advertising for daycare. She was below the licensing for state requirements but that didn't make it okay as far as the landlord was concerned. I am assuming they shut her down. The reason I called is because if I was a landlord, I would appreciate someone cluing me in. I wouldn't want the property to be used as a daycare without my knowledge. We currently own so its not an issue for us. As for this particular lady, if her landlord allows it and the state allows it, shes not doing anything wrong. Not every parent cares about outdoor space and that type of thing. In fact, one of my daycare provider friends has a family that specifically asks that their daughter NOT be taken outside ever (not even in the backyard). They wanted to know the exact location of their child at all times, which was the daycare room.

[lil angels]

We own a home too.

[MarinaVanessa]

I own a condo with a HOA. My neighbors don't give me trouble although I have had issues with some when clients have parked in their spaces which is the equivalent here as a client parking in your neighbors driveway, which I handled. All I had to do was notify them that I would be doing daycare and sending them a copy of my license and liability insurance. We also don't have a large yard. Just a small patio which we seldom use. We go to the park and go for walks. I'm in CA. But even though it's a condo the square footage is the same as an average 3 bedroom older style house. It's a 3 bedroom condo with a one car garage so it actually gives us bigger bedrooms.

[MsMe]

We rented a ranch-style home fore 6 years before we purchaced it last December. Our landlord knew and we were allowed to paint and make all the changes we wanted. We fenced in the back yard re-lanscaped, and handled all of the yard work. We only called him for big things like the stove such. We were forced to buy the house last year (owner in nursing home and had to sell all property)....I wish we still rented.

[MyAngels]

In my state you are required to get written permission from a landlord before you can become licensed if you rent your home. There are huge liability issues for the owner of the property that is used for daycare.

I doubt that very many landlords would want a daycare operating from their rentals because of the potential liability involved.

[jen]

There is a daycare out of a rental home down the street from me. She did have to give a slightly larger deposit, but the landlord was fine with it.

My personal feeling is that is isn't anyones business to be checking in to see if someone else has permission.

[nannyde]

I did child care in my townhouse for 7 years but had permission from the Home Owners Association. I think that would be hard to get in this day and age. The liability for even minor medical care is SO high now... it's just not worth the risk to someone who isn't making money off of it.

I never took the kids outside during those seven years. We didn't have any common property that was safe for the kids to play. My dcp's had NO problem with me not taking the kids out. My rates were really reasonable and they just did the outdoor stuff on their own clock.

As a landlord I would NEVER allow someone to do child care on my property.

I own my own home and have about 14-1500 square foot just for chlld care. I do not have any outdoor equipment or outdoor play area. When we go outside we go for walks in our neighborhood. We live around the corner from a city park.

We own a home and have a fully fenced huge yard. We also have a fenced 20 foot x 20 foot deck which we use regularly. In our are you must first provide licensing paperwork signed by your landlord allowing you to do daycare on the property. Our licensing agency also reguires a certin number of square feet indoor and outdoor for each child and will let you know at licensing (once they visit your home) the max number allowed based on the space you have available. In this area it would be impossible to not have a lot of room for the kids to play unless you were going to charge next to nothing. There are too many daycares competing for business around here as it is.

[snbauser]

I rent. This is the 3rd location that I have operated my daycare out of and I have rented all 3 times. The first time we moved was because the husband and wife were getting divorced and selling the property. The second time was when we moved from CA to NC. In all 3 cases my landlords have been well aware of my business and very supportive. I have never had any issues and also include my landlord as a rider on my liability insurance to cover them if anything were to happen.

[Mom_of_two]

We own our house.

[PitterPatter]

Originally Posted by jen

There is a daycare out of a rental home down the street from me. She did have to give a slightly larger deposit, but the landlord was fine with it.

My personal feeling is that is isn't anyones business to be checking in to see if someone else has permission.

Well my concern is for the children mainly. It's not like I am trying to start trouble or anything. If I had a young child I wouldn't want them kept in a single (small) room all day 5 days a week 10 hrs per day. I don't see how they can get the exersize they need in basically 1 room unless she uses her bedroom for something. And an apartment I could see but in an elderly tower complex it just didn't make sense to me. She said she never leaves the apartment and has them 10 hrs a day. It just sounds like something the state would not approve of. I know the monitor told me when I started yrs ago, they wanted the children outside for at least an hour per day.

Also I didn't think an elderly complex manager/owner would allow young children or a business in the building. So I was just asking to see how common it really is.

Thanks for all the input!

[MsMe]

Originally Posted by PitterPatter

Well my concern is for the children mainly. It's not like I am trying to start trouble or anything. If I had a young child I wouldn't want them kept in a single (small) room all day 5 days a week 10 hrs per day. I don't see how they can get the exersize they need in basically 1 room unless she uses her bedroom for something. And an apartment I could see but in an elderly tower complex it just didn't make sense to me. She said she never leaves the apartment and has them 10 hrs a day. It just sounds like something the state would not approve of. I know the monitor told me when I started yrs ago, they wanted the children outside for at least an hour per day.

Also I didn't think an elderly complex manager/owner would allow young children or a business in the building. So I was just asking to see how common it really is.

Thanks for all the input!

I think it is up to the parents how they wan their children cared for during the day. They have seen the apt and met the provider. It is not your place to decide if this is what you would chose. It is also up to the neighbors and landlord to decide if they want the daycare gone. I am sure they are aware...you can't hide a few kidsa nd their parents coming and going each day.

[Former Teacher]

We live in an apartment complex. According to our lease we can not operate ANY home business (IE childcare) that requires clients to come to the complex.

[Evansmom]

We own a home and it's about 2500 sq ft. I use about 900 of it for the daycare (kitchen, living room, dining room that is the play room and 1/2 bath for our bathroom. But our lot is 10,000 sq ft so our back yard is literally huge. It's very park-like with lots of trees, our organic garden boxes, a 10ftX10ft sand box and a small playground plus all the room that you would want to run around in.

I only keep 2-3 daycare kids and my own little guy. We have an HOA but I didn't ask permission. They aren't very active and since I have such a small group we don't bother anyone.

[jen2651]

we own...I would be nervous to do this in a rental...what if things happened?

[PitterPatter]

Originally Posted by MsMe

I think it is up to the parents how they wan their children cared for during the day. They have seen the apt and met the provider. It is not your place to decide if this is what you would chose. It is also up to the neighbors and landlord to decide if they want the daycare gone. I am sure they are aware...you can't hide a few kidsa nd their parents coming and going each day.

I know it's not MY place to decide. As I stated before I am not trying to start anything. I am not trying to get rid of the daycare for Gods sake. I just found it odd and thought I would ask. Especially when the state (SAME) state monitor told me I had to have the kids outdoors for at least an hour each day. This lady says she NEVER takes the kids outside. I just started thinking of all the regulations and such. That's all.

I just think of the noise that goes on in my home and the energy of a young child. I can't imagine keeping them quiet ALL day, every day 5, days a week, in 1 room. (Because it's homes for the elderly) That's all I'm sayin.

[Abigail]

Originally Posted by PitterPatter

I know it's not MY place to decide. As I stated before I am not trying to start anything. I am not trying to get rid of the daycare for Gods sake. I just found it odd and thought I would ask. Especially when the state (SAME) state monitor told me I had to have the kids outdoors for at least an hour each day. This lady says she NEVER takes the kids outside. I just started thinking of all the regulations and such. That's all.

I just think of the noise that goes on in my home and the energy of a young child. I can't imagine keeping them quiet ALL day, every day 5, days a week, in 1 room. (Because it's homes for the elderly) That's all I'm sayin.

You never know if those children she cares for are newborns or maybe they're special needs kids who can't have sunlight on them, ya never know. LOL. If you're concerned that the lady said she never brings them outside when you are required (walks or going to the park for an hour would count in my book, doesn't need to have a yard but would be much more convenient!). I would make a call if it bothered me to ask if they kids ever go outside, but I see nothing wrong with being in an apartment complex with two children......many people have two kids of there own and stay at home with them too.

I am a self-declared provider at this point in time, but still choose to work at a group child care facility because I want to own a home before opening my daycare.

[jen]

Originally Posted by PitterPatter

I know it's not MY place to decide. As I stated before I am not trying to start anything. I am not trying to get rid of the daycare for Gods sake. I just found it odd and thought I would ask. Especially when the state (SAME) state monitor told me I had to have the kids outdoors for at least an hour each day. This lady says she NEVER takes the kids outside. I just started thinking of all the regulations and such. That's all.

I just think of the noise that goes on in my home and the energy of a young child. I can't imagine keeping them quiet ALL day, every day 5, days a week, in 1 room. (Because it's homes for the elderly) That's all I'm sayin.

Maybe the elderly love having the kids around...they probably have a blast playing with a bunch of grandma's and grandpa's all day long!

My comment wasn't directed at you initially. Look around..there are several posts by members who call to "check on" what other providers are doing. In my book, that is a clear indicator that they don't have enough to do. Unless someone has a true concern about the welfare of a child (ie abuse and/or neglect) they should just mind their own business and trust the parents of those children to make decisions regarding their care. Again, not totally directed at you, just something to think about.

[Meyou]

I rent from family now but I've rented previously with no problems from my landlord about the daycare. I told him when we applied I have a small dayhome and that I would take responsibility for any damage occured because of them. There was never any damage or problems.

[AnythingsPossible]

Originally Posted by MsMe

We rented a ranch-style home fore 6 years before we purchaced it last December. Our landlord knew and we were allowed to paint and make all the changes we wanted. We fenced in the back yard re-lanscaped, and handled all of the yard work. We only called him for big things like the stove such. We were forced to buy the house last year (owner in nursing home and had to sell all property)....I wish we still rented.

We had much the same situation. Rented, then bought our home. The landlord loved that I did daycare as they figured I would keep the home up and be long term. The owner died and his children didn't want to deal the rentals so they sold them. We got ours for a decent price, but I wish we were still renting as we would move in a heartbeat if we did. Since we own and the market isn't great in our area we are stuck for quite awhile

Originally Posted by MsMe

I think it is up to the parents how they wan their children cared for during the day. They have seen the apt and met the provider. It is not your place to decide if this is what you would chose. It is also up to the neighbors and landlord to decide if they want the daycare gone. I am sure they are aware...you can't hide a few kidsa nd their parents coming and going each day.

I dislike people that go behind a provider's back and report them to DCF. I had a prospective client do that and i felt so betrayed- I'd only interviewed 3 families and I knew which one it was. I can't believe that people are so quick to report. Makes a person really need to watch their a$$ and be careful what they tell people. it's a shame this is what the world comes to: everyone being a tattle-tale.

[bklsmum]

I rent a single family home with a HUGE fenced in backyard. My landlord has no issues with my daycare and has even made improvements for me to accommodate it.

[Blackcat31]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I dislike people that go behind a provider's back and report them to DCF. I had a prospective client do that and i felt so betrayed- I'd only interviewed 3 families and I knew which one it was. I can't believe that people are so quick to report. Makes a person really need to watch their a$$ and be careful what they tell people. it's a shame this is what the world comes to: everyone being a tattle-tale.

If you aren't breaking any rules, then you should have nothing to worry about.

If you are operating illegally and know it, then you should be reported.

[Jack Sprat]

Originally Posted by Blackcat31

If you aren't breaking any rules, then you should have nothing to worry about.

If you are operating illegally and know it, then you should be reported.

Yep!! This drives me bonkers!

[LadyK8]

Renting. I had to get permission from my landlord during the application process, and they were just fine with it.

There are two other renters in my development who have daycares, and one of my landlord's other homes used to be used as a daycare (the home we lived in before moving to this smaller house).

[SignMeUp]

Zombie thread. But since it's active.
We are required to have 35 square feet indoor space per child, not occupied by adult furniture, and 50 square feet outdoor space per child, enclosed if required by licensing.

[Meeko]

I own my home.

I have heard that landlords sometimes change their tune over having a daycare in their rental property if you word it right.

They tend to think....oodles of wild kids...broken house.

If it is pointed out to them that a daycare can mean a BETTER taken care of home because of state regulations...inspections etc....they often mellow.

Worth a try.

Originally Posted by Blackcat31

If you aren't breaking any rules, then you should have nothing to worry about.

If you are operating illegally and know it, then you should be reported.

She thought the fact that I had a tenant in my home was grounds for reporting me.

[LysesKids]

Originally Posted by MyAngels

In my state you are required to get written permission from a landlord before you can become licensed if you rent your home. There are huge liability issues for the owner of the property that is used for daycare.

I doubt that very many landlords would want a daycare operating from their rentals because of the potential liability involved.

I never had a problem when renting in IL... my landlord not only knew, It was Hud housing. I was a registered provider too in order to take Vouchers
In fact until Ocober last year, I rented in 4 different states over 10 years and everyone of my landlords approved me doing childcare. I own my 750 sq ft home now

[coolconfidentme]

I own (no mortgage) a separate home for my DC. It has 1800 sq ft for the kids. I also own rental properties & do not allow tenants to have a home DC business. I did in the past & the place was road hard & put away wet.

[LysesKids]

Originally Posted by coolconfidentme

I own (no mortgage) a separate home for my DC. It has 1800 sq ft for the kids. I also own rental properties & do not allow tenants to have a home DC business. I did in the past & the place was road hard & put away wet.

I loved my landlord in IN... she was very cool and she did the painting in the duplex I rented (she was a contractor lol). All her tenants were there over 2 years including myself... I was a registered provider. Not everyone who rents is a bad tenant if they do childcare (infants only here).

[coolconfidentme]

Originally Posted by LysesKids

I loved my landlord in IN... she was very cool and she did the painting in the duplex I rented (she was a contractor lol). All her tenants were there over 2 years including myself... I was a registered provider. Not everyone who rents is a bad tenant if they do childcare (infants only here).

I know they aren't but I spend more time then I care to in court for damages. Every person who applies for a house, I find a reason to stop by their current home to *sign a document* or something. So far, the ones who have an in home business have trashed out their current living space. This includes the 3 who have in home DCs. Great tenants are hard to find. Probably why I am selling off my homes..., one at a time. My licensing inspector told me to turn them all into DCs cause I run a good, clean program here. That's not going to happen anytime soon, I can't clone myself.

[Blackcat31]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

She thought the fact that I had a tenant in my home was grounds for reporting me.

Depending on where you live that could be a reportable offense.

In my state ANYONE over age 13 living in the home must have a criminal background check and have their name listed as a resident of the home (tenant AND/OR family member) and on file at licensing/DHS

So if you did have a tenant that was not "approved" to be there, it may have been reportable.

I understand the parent may not have known whether or not the person was there legally and perhaps should have just asked but I suppose she thought she was within her rights to report. Who knows.

But like I said previously, if you aren't doing anything wrong, it shouldn't matter.

[LysesKids]

Originally Posted by coolconfidentme

I know they aren't but I spend more time then I care to in court for damages. Every person who applies for a house, I find a reason to stop by their current home to *sign a document* or something. So far, the ones who have an in home business have trashed out their current living space. This includes the 3 who have in home DCs. Great tenants are hard to find. Probably why I am selling off my homes..., one at a time. My licensing inspector told me to turn them all into DCs cause I run a good, clean program here. That's not going to happen anytime soon, I can't clone myself.

Sorry to hear that about your tenants... my Gal visited weekly and her youngest & my youngest child became best friends. We still talk a few times a year and I moved away in early 2005. I always left my homes in better shape than I found them; my last landlord actually gave me back more than the security because all my gardens & plantings improved his home a lot ( he was trying to sell)

[Second Home]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

She thought the fact that I had a tenant in my home was grounds for reporting me.

Here in MD ALL adults in the home must be background checked , fingerprinted and require a physical w/ TB test. So if those were not done on your tenant then you would be in violation.

[coolconfidentme]

Originally Posted by Blackcat31

Depending on where you live that could be a reportable offense.



But like I said previously, if you aren't doing anything wrong, it shouldn't matter.

THIS!

[sally]

We own our home. We have a large living room, and downstairs we have a huge family room and a playroom plus a good sized backyard. With having my own children we have plenty of inside and outside toys for kids. Plus we live a couple blocks away from a city park.

Originally Posted by cheerfuldom

I found out about one woman doing daycare in a rental and I called the place just to see what the rule was and they were not happy to find out she was advertising for daycare. She was below the licensing for state requirements but that didn't make it okay as far as the landlord was concerned. I am assuming they shut her down. The reason I called is because if I was a landlord, I would appreciate someone cluing me in. I wouldn't want the property to be used as a daycare without my knowledge. We currently own so its not an issue for us. As for this particular lady, if her landlord allows it and the state allows it, shes not doing anything wrong. Not every parent cares about outdoor space and that type of thing. In fact, one of my daycare provider friends has a family that specifically asks that their daughter NOT be taken outside ever (not even in the backyard). They wanted to know the exact location of their child at all times, which was the daycare room.

It's not your responsibility to get someone else in trouble like that. The fact you even validate it just shows that you're childish and selfish, obviously want her business. You knew you were calling the LL to get her in trouble.

[Cradle2crayons]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

It's not your responsibility to get someone else in trouble like that. The fact you even validate it just shows that you're childish and selfish, obviously want her business. You knew you were calling the LL to get her in trouble.

It's everyone's responsibility to weed out illegal daycares. Not only do illegal daycares make things harder for those of us that are legal, it can even out the lives of children there in danger. If someone is willing to operate illegally, what other laws are they violating?? It's true there's no way to know of ALL illegally operating daycares, but if we know specifically of one, it's our responsibility to report them. Not that reporting will get anything done though because st states simply don't have enough workers to not only search out those running illegally, but prosecute them if they find out.

[Margarete]

Originally Posted by cheerfuldom

I found out about one woman doing daycare in a rental and I called the place just to see what the rule was and they were not happy to find out she was advertising for daycare. She was below the licensing for state requirements but that didn't make it okay as far as the landlord was concerned. I am assuming they shut her down. The reason I called is because if I was a landlord, I would appreciate someone cluing me in. I wouldn't want the property to be used as a daycare without my knowledge. We currently own so its not an issue for us. As for this particular lady, if her landlord allows it and the state allows it, shes not doing anything wrong. Not every parent cares about outdoor space and that type of thing. In fact, one of my daycare provider friends has a family that specifically asks that their daughter NOT be taken outside ever (not even in the backyard). They wanted to know the exact location of their child at all times, which was the daycare room.

Old thread, but she wasn't operating illegally.

In California landlords are not allowed to say no to providing childcare in the home/ apt you live in (but they are to be notified of licensed care). It's considered a 'residential use', and illegal to discriminate.

[Blackcat31]

Originally Posted by Margarete

Old thread, but she wasn't operating illegally.

In California landlords are not allowed to say no to providing childcare in the home/ apt you live in (but they are to be notified of licensed care). It's considered a 'residential use', and illegal to discriminate.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think California is one of the only states that allow a tenant to run a daycare out of their rental home even if the landlord is not okay with it.

I think in Cheers case, her state says the landlord DOES have the right to evict or be aware of whether a tenant has a daycare business.
In my state, you cant run a child care out of a rental home UNLESS the landlord says you can. If you do you ARE operating illegally.