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  #1  
Old 03-04-2014, 12:11 PM
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Unhappy Daycare Fire

A daycare about half an hour away had a terrible fire this morning. The DC opens at 5am and the fire happened around 6:30am. There was the DC owner and 6 kids there at the time. A child around 1yr old died in the fire while sleeping in a pack-n-play.

I cannot even IMAGINE what everyone involved is going through....the DC provider and her family, the families involved, the kids that were there, the fire fighters that found the child, etc.

So many people are scrutinizing the daycare saying how she had too many kids, when they have no clue what they are talking about! We practice fire drills here monthly, but I still don't think we could ever be prepared enough if something like that happened. Some days we have 12 kids here and 6 of them don't walk with 2 employees. What would they do if there was a fire? Which kids do you grab first? How would the kids react?

We have about 2-3" of snow and some ice outside. It was probably near 0 out at that time in the morning and dark out. I bet everyone was terrified! I know I would be
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Old 03-04-2014, 12:14 PM
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So sad! And eye opening that it could happen at any time
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Old 03-04-2014, 12:17 PM
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oh dear! That is so sad!

I worry about it occasionally, too. At nap time, I have 4 kiddos in 4 different rooms. 3 walk, but at 15m, 15m, and 2 1/2, I don't know that this would help. Of course, when I practice fire drills, it's when they're awake and all in one room. I can't really wake them up to do it. We do have smoke detectors in every room, and they are interconnected.

One illegal provider here had (finally shut down) TWELVE children by herself (and I watched 6 more get off the school bus as I drove out). Can you imagine? Quite a few of them where pre-walkers, too!
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Old 03-04-2014, 12:28 PM
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How sad. I feel for the families and provider.

We had a house fire 2 years ago. I didn't have the dc at the time, but I had 3 kids here and it happened at night. Dh was sleeping and the kids and I were about to watch a movie when I saw flames outside (we had a shed attached to the house, it was an electrical fire from an outlet in the shed). I woke my dh up thankfully we all got outside. I have to say that embarrassingly, when the fire first started, the kids didn't realize what was going on and just sat on the couch and I didn't really think about yelling at them to get out-it was outside, but attached to the house and to this day I yell at myself about not yelling at them to get out. But the smoke detectors never went off either. The fire spread so fast.

As for people scrutinizing the dc provider, who knows what went on. When something like that happens, for some people, no matter how many times you practice, you're never fully prepared. And fires spread very fast. I can have 6 kids here and like you said, how do you know where or who to go to first, so many factors to consider.
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Old 03-04-2014, 12:42 PM
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Oh my heart goes out to everyone. That is horrendous. You never know how you will react. Depends on where the fire is, where the kids are, if the kids all freak out and run in different directions etc. That is just horrible. I think if I had to, I would just toss kids out the windows (first floor of course) if I couldn't carry them all. Better to be tossed into a snowbank then left hoping I can get back to them. Prayers sent out.
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Old 03-04-2014, 12:47 PM
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my husband was/is a firefighter. he makes my staff and I practice once a month different types of situations, but he says that it will never be the same exact situation, so we just have to learn to do what we can the best we can. NO matter what we do, if we can't save them all no fault to us, we will be put down for it.

accidents happen out of our control. we can do everything in our power to stop them, but not every situation is preventable.

every week I check my gas, furnace, burners, stove pilot etc, but something can still go wrong.


this is so sad and i feel for this provider
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Old 03-04-2014, 01:00 PM
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My heart goes out to everyone involved.

A long time ago I was thinking it over and came to the sobering conclusion that, at the time when my DS was a baby and not walking, that if a fire broke out I would probably save all the dcks first and come back for DS. Let's face it. The news wouldn't care if a provider's OWN child was injured or killed, but you'll be lambasted by everyone in the city if a dck gets injured or killed--especially if you saved your own child first.

It makes me tear up thinking about it even now, but my feelings are the same. And I pray with all my heart that I never have to act on that.
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Old 03-04-2014, 01:03 PM
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Oh my goodness, where was this at? I'm in Indiana also.
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Old 03-04-2014, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverSabre25 View Post
My heart goes out to everyone involved.

A long time ago I was thinking it over and came to the sobering conclusion that, at the time when my DS was a baby and not walking, that if a fire broke out I would probably save all the dcks first and come back for DS. Let's face it. The news wouldn't care if a provider's OWN child was injured or killed, but you'll be lambasted by everyone in the city if a dck gets injured or killed--especially if you saved your own child first.

It makes me tear up thinking about it even now, but my feelings are the same. And I pray with all my heart that I never have to act on that.
gotta agree with you, this is so true..............
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Old 03-04-2014, 01:10 PM
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Heart breaking.

All sleep in the same room here, and yes I would grab my one and only in the first run. Town people may talk yes and never forgive me. I could move. My husband and extended family would likely not forgive. I have decided that if I ever lost a child in care, even if by no fault of my own, then I would be done.
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Old 03-04-2014, 01:34 PM
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I WOULD die to try to save a child, even one that isn't my own. but I would save my own child first. I am being 100% honest. I did daycare when my ds was first born and my GAME PLAN was to grab him first and then get the other kids (dd was old enough to understand, listen and help get kids out, too.)

NYS only allows 2 under 2 for this reason. We can only carry (feasibly) two kids at a time.

All of my kids are walkers, and sleep down a hallway during nap (first floor). I leave the window to that room unlocked so that if a fire happened in between us, it would take me LITERALLY 30 seconds to get to them from outside the house if I couldn't get to them from inside.

My BIL was a firefighter, and he even said that regs (having to leave the door open) are stupid in this regard. If the fire is in the room the kids sleep in, there is almost no chance of them getting out alive with the door open or closed. If the door is closed and the fire is in an adjacent room or hallway, the door would block the fire and I could get to them from outside. But again, I don't break regs.
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Old 03-04-2014, 02:07 PM
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Oh my goodness, where was this at? I'm in Indiana also.
Just found it-Sullivan, about 80 miles SW of Indy.
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  #13  
Old 03-04-2014, 02:46 PM
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Someone posted a comment about finding a daycare that cares about the kids on their news page like that jackhat has any idea what it takes to provide care for 6+ kids! It's entirely possible the fire was too big and she couldn't go back in to get the baby. The baby died from smoke inhalation so you can't say going in would have saved her. She may have died before they even got out of the house! It's incredibly horribly sad but this IS exactly why they limit infant care to only 2. Whoever dealt with the pissy mom who was mad that she would accept a non-walking 18 month old or whatever... THIS is why!! It endangers a child if there's a fire and they can't walk.
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Old 03-04-2014, 03:07 PM
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This is horrible, so sad.

My assistant and I were just talking about getting more serious about our fire drills. We do them once a month, but it's always ideal timing. I think it would really benefit us to do one during nap time. We have 5 under 1, which is fine as far are regs are concerned, but if they were all sleeping, I think it would take a little organization to get them out.
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Old 03-04-2014, 03:24 PM
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What about the evacuation cribs? When I took a year hyatis from family child care and worked in a center we sat or laid up to 6 infants in one and pushed it out the building.It was quick and manageable.
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Old 03-04-2014, 04:20 PM
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You can have the best plans but sadly a fire doesn't care. Your survival instincts WILL kick in and if your faced with getting out of a burning house when you're already inhaling smoke, coughing and feeling the intense heat or staying inside and trying to save another person you may not get to make the choice because your survival instinct will probably make it for you. This is why firefighters have gear and training. Most people wouldn't be physically or mentally able to stay in a fire that was burning fast and hot.
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverSabre25 View Post
My heart goes out to everyone involved.

A long time ago I was thinking it over and came to the sobering conclusion that, at the time when my DS was a baby and not walking, that if a fire broke out I would probably save all the dcks first and come back for DS. Let's face it. The news wouldn't care if a provider's OWN child was injured or killed, but you'll be lambasted by everyone in the city if a dck gets injured or killed--especially if you saved your own child first.

It makes me tear up thinking about it even now, but my feelings are the same. And I pray with all my heart that I never have to act on that.
I don't know how any parent could ever say that. I would make sure my own child was safe first before anyone else. I could care less what people was to say I couldn't live my life without my baby.
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Old 03-04-2014, 10:38 PM
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Even in-homes should have these. You can throw 6 kids in, and you can even lift and carry one with 2 adults.
If you can afford it get home monitoring and wire in to police and fire. This will speed help up considerably.
Also every in-home should have in their handbook where they go if this happens. It is -7 here and we would not be able to be on the sidewalk. I have keys to a church 5 houses away in case of an emergency and it is in my handbook that the parents will find me there with the children in case of an evacuation.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:23 AM
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I have an evacuation crib but if our exit was blocked the second exit is up stairs So I would need to grab them under my arms.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:42 AM
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I don't know how any parent could ever say that. I would make sure my own child was safe first before anyone else. I could care less what people was to say I couldn't live my life without my baby.
well, clearly not everyone is the same. Call me a terrible parent if you want. I don't really care what you think.

There are lots of reasons why I feel this way--and I don't have to defend myself to some faceless stranger who won't even use a username to ID herself.
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Old 03-05-2014, 12:07 PM
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well, clearly not everyone is the same. Call me a terrible parent if you want. I don't really care what you think.

There are lots of reasons why I feel this way--and I don't have to defend myself to some faceless stranger who won't even use a username to ID herself.
I don't get your thinking either~

My thinking would be to get all of them out, mine and others. I would not aim for any particular child except for all of them- I wouldn't stop until they were all out either-
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Old 03-05-2014, 12:20 PM
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I think you can have every plan in place, but if this type of tragic event occurs, so many factors come into play. I don't think that anyone can say what they will or won't do if the time comes. Depends on how thick the smoke is, how hot it is, where the fire is, what obstacles are in the way etc.
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Old 03-05-2014, 12:27 PM
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Thank goodness 5 children were safe, there could have been a much higher death count.
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Old 03-05-2014, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverSabre25 View Post
well, clearly not everyone is the same. Call me a terrible parent if you want. I don't really care what you think.

There are lots of reasons why I feel this way--and I don't have to defend myself to some faceless stranger who won't even use a username to ID herself.
I totally understand where you are coming from.

I don't know what I would do in that situation for sure and hopefully will never have to find out but I have often felt the same way in other similar (but not nearly as tragic) situations.

For example, my DS and his friend were playing outside at my daycare one time. My DS, now 22 yrs old was about 7 at the time. Anyways, he and his friend were splitting rocks. (My DH builds split rock fireplaces and such...) and my DS ended up getting his finger smashed between two rocks.

It ended up being a really bad accident...he had a long surgery to repair, months of PT and Dr's visits.

I remember looking back that the biggest thing I felt was relief that it was MY child that got hurt and not one of the daycare kids.

I know you know what I mean..... so I don't need to explain why.
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Old 03-05-2014, 04:17 PM
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I don't get your thinking either~

My thinking would be to get all of them out, mine and others. I would not aim for any particular child except for all of them- I wouldn't stop until they were all out either-
I don't either, but it doesn't matter. It's her thinking, and that's a-ok in my book.

In a situation like this, there is no right answer, and no amount of planning "here is what I would do" can really prepare you. Practice will up the odds of getting the kids out, but there are just too many variables to know anything. The ONLY thing we can do is take this tragedy as a lesson to do whatever we can to be as prepared as possible. sigh...
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Old 03-05-2014, 04:19 PM
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I have an evacuation crib but if our exit was blocked the second exit is up stairs So I would need to grab them under my arms.
I don't have one, but with the layout of my house, it'd do me little good anyway. 4 kids (occasionally 6) on 2 different levels.
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Old 03-05-2014, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by bloominggenius View Post
Even in-homes should have these. You can throw 6 kids in, and you can even lift and carry one with 2 adults.
If you can afford it get home monitoring and wire in to police and fire. This will speed help up considerably.
Also every in-home should have in their handbook where they go if this happens. It is -7 here and we would not be able to be on the sidewalk. I have keys to a church 5 houses away in case of an emergency and it is in my handbook that the parents will find me there with the children in case of an evacuation.
The best I could do is put them all in my car, if it's parked outside (the garage is attached). Our neighborhood is 6 miles from town, and all our lots are 1-2 acres. All my direct neighbors are gone during the day, most days.
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Old 03-05-2014, 04:24 PM
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Well, I don't have any children at this time but I have played this scenario many times in my head and I personally would rather die in the fire trying to save as many of the children possible (and even my pets) than survive it and live with the guilt of thinking that there is more I could have done. And trust me, even if there wasn't children there I would risk my life for my cats (lol, IK crazy cat lady but they are my babies). It's not even that I would fear what others would say or think but what I would think of myself. Better to die with dignity than live a coward (JMHO).
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Old 03-05-2014, 04:48 PM
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This is a time when we should be helping each other find ways to safely evacuate are homes with are kids . Not call some one out for having fillings that you don't under stand. Now can some one tell me what a evacuation crib is? I will be having mostly under 2 and I have been tiring to think of ways to get them out of the house fast and down the street to my neighbors house.
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Old 03-05-2014, 04:54 PM
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Well, I don't have any children at this time but I have played this scenario many times in my head and I personally would rather die in the fire trying to save as many of the children possible (and even my pets) than survive it and live with the guilt of thinking that there is more I could have done. And trust me, even if there wasn't children there I would risk my life for my cats (lol, IK crazy cat lady but they are my babies). It's not even that I would fear what others would say or think but what I would think of myself. Better to die with dignity than live a coward (JMHO).
I sent you a password reset email. Let me know if you still have trouble logging in.

about the cats. I my fur babies like that too!!
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Old 03-05-2014, 05:08 PM
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I sent you a password reset email. Let me know if you still have trouble logging in.

about the cats. I my fur babies like that too!!
Thanks I got it.
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Old 03-06-2014, 11:56 AM
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I don't either, but it doesn't matter. It's her thinking, and that's a-ok in my book.

In a situation like this, there is no right answer, and no amount of planning "here is what I would do" can really prepare you. Practice will up the odds of getting the kids out, but there are just too many variables to know anything. The ONLY thing we can do is take this tragedy as a lesson to do whatever we can to be as prepared as possible. sigh...
and I should have added this to my posting.........I can hope that I would make all the right decisions but in the event of a true emergency situation who knows what the outcome is going to end up........none of us know because of so many variables. I think for me my parental instincts would kick in not only for my own child but all of them. Silver I am not downing you- just trying to understand and if you don't want to share that is perfectly fine. We all come from different places in our walks of life.

I do know I love my pets but I would not go back into a burning building for them- pets can be replaced, humans can't. I love my pets to no end too, but I believe they have instincts inside of them to hide and do what they have to do in an emergency. I don't want to die looking for fido- I would do all I could within me looking for a child.

I hope none of have to make these choices or go through any of this. Drills and being prepared the best we can is important.
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Old 03-06-2014, 12:57 PM
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So very sad and a scary situation. We practice fire drills and other safety drills with the kids (mine and the dcks) but if it really happens are we going to be able to think straight? One of my neighbors is retired but used to be the head of the ambulance and their house is our go to in any emergency. If we can't make it there we have 2 neighbors across the street that are also retired and are almost always home. We have a 1 story ranch house with windows we can easily escape if the front and back doors are blocked.

Last edited by sally; 03-06-2014 at 12:58 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 03-06-2014, 09:17 PM
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I do know I love my pets but I would not go back into a burning building for them- pets can be replaced, humans can't. I love my pets to no end too, but I believe they have instincts inside of them to hide and do what they have to do in an emergency. I don't want to die looking for fido- I would do all I could within me looking for a child.
And that's your choice but to me they are a member of my family (probably more-so than most of my family members) that can't just be "replaced" like a lost pair of earrings. Heck, my brother once caused a kitchen fire that lead my mom in the hospital for smoke inhalation and I was mad because they left the cats in the house (they opened the windows {screened} but still). Pets maybe 'replaceable' to you but to me there are living being with unique personalities just as humans are (though, not many people are all that "unique" IMHO). It may seem silly to you but sometimes it seems like everyone I have ever cared about has either left me or continued to disappoint me time and time again- except them.

But the reason why I brought up my pets is that I'm not 100% sure what I am doing with my cats during daycare hours- If I'm going to have them in my room or a closed off section during daycare hours or let them free roam. I am not going to just leave them in a locked area, trapped with no exit to be put to their death either by being tortured and burned to death or slowly asphyxiated by smoke inhalation (which ever gets them first). As a HSP who has dealt with depression, I know personally I would not be able to live with that guilt and that no matter what the start of the fire was that I would always blame myself and never find inner peace. Just thinking about it right now is reducing me to tears.
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Old 03-07-2014, 01:35 AM
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And that's your choice but to me they are a member of my family (probably more-so than most of my family members) that can't just be "replaced" like a lost pair of earrings. Heck, my brother once caused a kitchen fire that lead my mom in the hospital for smoke inhalation and I was mad because they left the cats in the house (they opened the windows {screened} but still). Pets maybe 'replaceable' to you but to me there are living being with unique personalities just as humans are (though, not many people are all that "unique" IMHO). It may seem silly to you but sometimes it seems like everyone I have ever cared about has either left me or continued to disappoint me time and time again- except them.

But the reason why I brought up my pets is that I'm not 100% sure what I am doing with my cats during daycare hours- If I'm going to have them in my room or a closed off section during daycare hours or let them free roam. I am not going to just leave them in a locked area, trapped with no exit to be put to their death either by being tortured and burned to death or slowly asphyxiated by smoke inhalation (which ever gets them first). As a HSP who has dealt with depression, I know personally I would not be able to live with that guilt and that no matter what the start of the fire was that I would always blame myself and never find inner peace. Just thinking about it right now is reducing me to tears.
So you would go back in a burning building/house to save animals? Have you ever had a house fire? We had one about 2yrs ago and while it was outside, it was a room attached to our house. A man came running up before the fire truck got there and was trying to extinguish the the fire with a hose which I appreciated but jeeze, don't risk your life for our possessions! Seriously! Looking back, while I didn't think it would reach our house when we went out, it was possible. I didn't even think of where my cat was because I was worried about my 6 kids and dh. I love my cat and would never want him to die but I was NOT risking my life and potentially leave my kids motherless to save our cat. I would have hard time sleeping at night if the man who was helping us was hurt let alone killed! Everyone values life differently and some live recklessly but the lost life of a human adult or child and that of a cat is much different to me.
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Old 03-07-2014, 04:36 AM
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I don't care what you all say, but when you start running on pure adrenoline, you will save everything and everyone.
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Old 03-07-2014, 07:19 AM
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Everyone values life differently and some live recklessly but the lost life of a human adult or child and that of a cat is much different to me.
But they aren't different to her. That is what she is saying.

Doesn't make you or her more right or wrong.

Just says that you both have different beliefs.
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Old 03-07-2014, 07:44 AM
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But they aren't different to her. That is what she is saying.

Doesn't make you or her more right or wrong.

Just says that you both have different beliefs.
I didn't say it was wrong??
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Old 03-07-2014, 07:57 AM
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So you would go back in a burning building/house to save animals? Have you ever had a house fire? We had one about 2yrs ago and while it was outside, it was a room attached to our house. A man came running up before the fire truck got there and was trying to extinguish the the fire with a hose which I appreciated but jeeze, don't risk your life for our possessions! Seriously! Looking back, while I didn't think it would reach our house when we went out, it was possible. I didn't even think of where my cat was because I was worried about my 6 kids and dh. I love my cat and would never want him to die but I was NOT risking my life and potentially leave my kids motherless to save our cat. I would have hard time sleeping at night if the man who was helping us was hurt let alone killed! Everyone values life differently and some live recklessly but the lost life of a human adult or child and that of a cat is much different to me.
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I didn't say it was wrong??
The bolded sentence, just made it sound like you were questioning her motives or her beliefs or saying it was wrong...

That coupled with the fact that you went on to explain why YOU believed your cat wasn't worth dying for....
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Old 03-07-2014, 08:47 AM
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The bolded sentence, just made it sound like you were questioning her motives or her beliefs or saying it was wrong...

That coupled with the fact that you went on to explain why YOU believed your cat wasn't worth dying for....
Well that may be how YOU read it, but I'm genuinely curious if this is just what she envisions in her head or what she actually has experienced. Practicing a fire drill and actually being in a fire are WAY different. Like Countrymom said, you're running on pure adrenaline. Sure if my cat was laying nearby I would grab him on my way out but only speaking from personal experience my life and the concept of my children having a mother is more important TO ME than running into a burning house to save a cat. It has no baring on her feelings what so ever.
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Old 03-07-2014, 08:58 AM
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Well that may be how YOU read it, but I'm genuinely curious if this is just what she envisions in her head or what she actually has experienced. Practicing a fire drill and actually being in a fire are WAY different. Like Countrymom said, you're running on pure adrenaline. Sure if my cat was laying nearby I would grab him on my way out but only speaking from personal experience my life and the concept of my children having a mother is more important TO ME than running into a burning house to save a cat. It has no baring on her feelings what so ever.
I am not admonishing you for your perspective.

I was just trying to put out another perspective that supports Starburst's line of thinking.

To each his/her own.

I only commented because you quoted her and then questioned her because her beliefs didn't align with your line of thinking.

It is clear that YOU would not save your cat if there was a fire.

Starburst would risk her life to save her cat.

You questioned that.

I was simply pointing out that she feels differently than you
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Old 03-07-2014, 10:33 AM
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See, I never said I wouldn't save my cat. I said I wouldn't risk my life to go run into a burning building but would grab him if he were close by. I'm in no way saying she's wrong, like I stated before, I'm just curious if she's actually experienced this. But it also makes me question her plans if there really was a fire during daycare. What about the DCKs? Are you going to leave them on the sidewalk alone to go back in to save animals? If you're faced with the choice of animals or DCKs what would you do as their lives are equally important yet animals are closer than family. I know someone mentioned earlier that they had the idea that they'd have to leave their own son and get DCKs out first. I'm really not saying she's wrong I'm just honestly curious as to her thoughts on this. For me it's a no brainier, kids before pets but obviously not for her. I'm not putting her down, I'm not insulting her, I don't really understand why you need to come explain to me that two people with two different lives may think differently? I'm plenty aware of that by her post, I don't really need someone to clarify for me.
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Old 03-07-2014, 10:41 AM
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See, I never said I wouldn't save my cat. I said I wouldn't risk my life to go run into a burning building but would grab him if he were close by. I'm in no way saying she's wrong, like I stated before, I'm just curious if she's actually experienced this. But it also makes me question her plans if there really was a fire during daycare. What about the DCKs? Are you going to leave them on the sidewalk alone to go back in to save animals? If you're faced with the choice of animals or DCKs what would you do as their lives are equally important yet animals are closer than family. I know someone mentioned earlier that they had the idea that they'd have to leave their own son and get DCKs out first. I'm really not saying she's wrong I'm just honestly curious as to her thoughts on this. For me it's a no brainier, kids before pets but obviously not for her. I'm not putting her down, I'm not insulting her, I don't really understand why you need to come explain to me that two people with two different lives may think differently? I'm plenty aware of that by her post, I don't really need someone to clarify for me.
Um, wow... sorry to ruffle your feathers....
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Old 03-07-2014, 10:51 AM
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Electrical fires scare me the most because it can happen without warning.

Luckily my kids can walk now, but if they couldn't, I had them all in the same floor just in case, and planned on tossing them each up the windowsill just to get them out. We practiced a few times, but the toddlers were very slow at getting out since we'dve had to clime up the ladder out the window from a basement floor.

Another thought I had is keeping an always open play pen, just stuffing all the littles in there and dragging it out. Yes, it'd be heavy, yes they might even get hurt a little, but they'd be alive. IDK just scenarios in my head that I wish I had real answers for. VERY sad. My heart goes to the families.
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Old 03-07-2014, 11:04 AM
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Has everyone heard about how dangerous keeping batteries in a drawer can be? Especially 9 volts? There are a ton of stories out there about it if you want to google it. I read somewhere that countless fires are started this way and most people don't know how dangerous it is to just toss them in a junk drawer or box. I had never heard of it until I saw a news story...
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Old 03-07-2014, 11:07 AM
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Has everyone heard about how dangerous keeping batteries in a drawer can be? Especially 9 volts? There are a ton of stories out there about it if you want to google it. I read somewhere that countless fires are started this way and most people don't know how dangerous it is to just toss them in a junk drawer or box. I had never heard of it until I saw a news story...
Really? Like extra ones that have never been used or old ones? Or both? I have some new ones in a drawer right now.
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Old 03-07-2014, 11:13 AM
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Really? Like extra ones that have never been used or old ones? Or both? I have some new ones in a drawer right now.
http://www.kctv5.com/story/24594124/...ry-fire-danger

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2012/...o-fire-hazard/

http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/f...ws/20120808-9-
volt-batteries.html
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Old 03-07-2014, 11:27 AM
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That's what they think happened in our house fire. We had some of my late mother in law's items in boxes and she always liked blinkey, lighted things and we think one of the items may have had an old battery in it and caught fire. Or there may have been batteries in camping equipment we had, but it was mainly her stuff that was deemed the hot spot. Later in the summer someone left some old unwanted toys along their fence while cleaning stuff up and those caught fire and burned their fence and almost their home and the neighbors. Since ours was behind the house we didn't smell smoke or see a fire until it had already smoldered and eventually started a fire and burnt most items in our storage room.
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Old 03-07-2014, 11:28 AM
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well, clearly not everyone is the same. Call me a terrible parent if you want. I don't really care what you think.

There are lots of reasons why I feel this way--and I don't have to defend myself to some faceless stranger who won't even use a username to ID herself.

i know myself and I know I will try to safe children without looking are they my own or not.
Ladies don't take an offense but I would never put my own child in a daycare where owner has own children in care. Just because in a dangerous situation she/he would be worry only about own children.
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Old 03-07-2014, 11:28 AM
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Really? Like extra ones that have never been used or old ones? Or both? I have some new ones in a drawer right now.
It's mainly old ones.
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Old 03-07-2014, 11:32 AM
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i know myself and I know I will try to safe children without looking are they my own or not.
Ladies don't take an offense but I would never put my own child in a daycare where owner has own children in care. Just because in a dangerous situation she/he would be worry only about own children.
Well I hope you never have to find a home daycare because the majority of them have their own children. Obviously home daycare isn't for you and that's fine and dandy but your reasoning is quite silly. Someone else above posted they would let their own child die in a fire to save all the daycare kids if that's what she had to do, she would choose her own son LAST! But you'll make a judgement about ALL providers with their own children in their care? Wow!
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Old 03-07-2014, 11:35 AM
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It has nothing to do with the age of the battery. It's the contact of metal as small as a paperclip or a key, etc...touching the ends of the battery that can ignite or start the spark.
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Old 03-07-2014, 11:35 AM
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And that's your choice but to me they are a member of my family (probably more-so than most of my family members) that can't just be "replaced" like a lost pair of earrings. Heck, my brother once caused a kitchen fire that lead my mom in the hospital for smoke inhalation and I was mad because they left the cats in the house (they opened the windows {screened} but still). Pets maybe 'replaceable' to you but to me there are living being with unique personalities just as humans are (though, not many people are all that "unique" IMHO). It may seem silly to you but sometimes it seems like everyone I have ever cared about has either left me or continued to disappoint me time and time again- except them.

But the reason why I brought up my pets is that I'm not 100% sure what I am doing with my cats during daycare hours- If I'm going to have them in my room or a closed off section during daycare hours or let them free roam. I am not going to just leave them in a locked area, trapped with no exit to be put to their death either by being tortured and burned to death or slowly asphyxiated by smoke inhalation (which ever gets them first). As a HSP who has dealt with depression, I know personally I would not be able to live with that guilt and that no matter what the start of the fire was that I would always blame myself and never find inner peace. Just thinking about it right now is reducing me to tears.
I understand you- I love my pets too. but if it came down to my pets or a human I am going to go with a human every time- It would hurt me to loose my beloved animal but for my kids it would hurt more if they lost me or I lost them-

Hugs to you- I feel your love and passion.

It is ok if we don't agree on this and I respect you for the way you feel. I feel differently about this subject.

Thinking about this is hard, but its probably good that we do put thought into all of it and we do drills etc..... it just helps prepare us that much more and again I hope none of have to go through this-
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Old 03-07-2014, 11:47 AM
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Well I hope you never have to find a home daycare because the majority of them have their own children. Obviously home daycare isn't for you and that's fine and dandy but your reasoning is quite silly. Someone else above posted they would let their own child die in a fire to save all the daycare kids if that's what she had to do, she would choose her own son LAST! But you'll make a judgement about ALL providers with their own children in their care? Wow!
You see what you want see in my words. ))) I don't judgement ALL. But some messages above proof the correctness of my choice. I'm worried about my own child and would look for a person who will not need to make a choice which child to safe first and will just try to safe all that she can.
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Old 03-07-2014, 11:51 AM
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I am not admonishing you for your perspective.

I was just trying to put out another perspective that supports Starburst's line of thinking.

To each his/her own.

I only commented because you quoted her and then questioned her because her beliefs didn't align with your line of thinking.

It is clear that YOU would not save your cat if there was a fire.

Starburst would risk her life to save her cat.

You questioned that.

I was simply pointing out that she feels differently than you
What is your perspective BCat, if your pets and kids and daycare kids were all in the same house? Just curious.

I also once knew a lady that was moving and loved her cats so much but was not allowed to take them with her to her new home- no animal policy. She had them put to sleep because she loved them so much and no one would care for them the way she would.
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Old 03-07-2014, 12:01 PM
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Well, I don't have any children at this time but I have played this scenario many times in my head and I personally would rather die in the fire trying to save as many of the children possible (and even my pets) than survive it and live with the guilt of thinking that there is more I could have done. And trust me, even if there wasn't children there I would risk my life for my cats (lol, IK crazy cat lady but they are my babies). It's not even that I would fear what others would say or think but what I would think of myself. Better to die with dignity than live a coward (JMHO).
**************************** another post:
And that's your choice but to me they are a member of my family (probably more-so than most of my family members) that can't just be "replaced" like a lost pair of earrings. Heck, my brother once caused a kitchen fire that lead my mom in the hospital for smoke inhalation and I was mad because they left the cats in the house (they opened the windows {screened} but still). Pets maybe 'replaceable' to you but to me there are living being with unique personalities just as humans are (though, not many people are all that "unique" IMHO). It may seem silly to you but sometimes it seems like everyone I have ever cared about has either left me or continued to disappoint me time and time again- except them.

But the reason why I brought up my pets is that I'm not 100% sure what I am doing with my cats during daycare hours- If I'm going to have them in my room or a closed off section during daycare hours or let them free roam. I am not going to just leave them in a locked area, trapped with no exit to be put to their death either by being tortured and burned to death or slowly asphyxiated by smoke inhalation (which ever gets them first). As a HSP who has dealt with depression, I know personally I would not be able to live with that guilt and that no matter what the start of the fire was that I would always blame myself and never find inner peace. Just thinking about it right now is reducing me to tears.
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So you would go back in a burning building/house to save animals? Have you ever had a house fire? We had one about 2yrs ago and while it was outside, it was a room attached to our house. A man came running up before the fire truck got there and was trying to extinguish the the fire with a hose which I appreciated but jeeze, don't risk your life for our possessions! Seriously! Looking back, while I didn't think it would reach our house when we went out, it was possible. I didn't even think of where my cat was because I was worried about my 6 kids and dh. I love my cat and would never want him to die but I was NOT risking my life and potentially leave my kids motherless to save our cat. I would have hard time sleeping at night if the man who was helping us was hurt let alone killed! Everyone values life differently and some live recklessly but the lost life of a human adult or child and that of a cat is much different to me.
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Well that may be how YOU read it, but I'm genuinely curious if this is just what she envisions in her head or what she actually has experienced. Practicing a fire drill and actually being in a fire are WAY different. Like Countrymom said, you're running on pure adrenaline. Sure if my cat was laying nearby I would grab him on my way out but only speaking from personal experience my life and the concept of my children having a mother is more important TO ME than running into a burning house to save a cat. It has no baring on her feelings what so ever.
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See, I never said I wouldn't save my cat. I said I wouldn't risk my life to go run into a burning building but would grab him if he were close by. I'm in no way saying she's wrong, ( Well it kind of seems like your personally attack me) like I stated before, I'm just curious if she's actually experienced this.And I mentioned that there was a house fire But it also makes me question her plans if there really was a fire during daycare. What about the DCKs? Are you going to leave them on the sidewalk alone to go back in to save animals? If you're faced with the choice of animals or DCKs what would you do as their lives are equally important yet animals are closer than family. I know someone mentioned earlier that they had the idea that they'd have to leave their own son and get DCKs out first. I'm really not saying she's wrong I'm just honestly curious as to her thoughts on this. For me it's a no brainier, kids before pets but obviously not for her. I'm not putting her down, I'm not insulting herGee, saying that I'm reckless and that I would put the Daycare children in danger even though I clearly stated I would risk my life making sure I would get as many children got out alive as possible. I never said that I would put my kids before pets because again... I HAVE NO CHILDREN!. I don't really understand why you need to come explain to me that two people with two different lives may think differently? I'm plenty aware of that by her post, I don't really need someone to clarify for me. Well you keep stating that you have 6 kids (when I have NO KIDS) and seem to be tearing me apart because I said as a general statement that I would try to save my pets, and yes, even risk my life, to make sure they came out safe. Not to mention apparently assuming that I live in a 'fantasy' would where house fires don't exist or that I never experienced one when I clearly stated there was a house fire and clearly stated ways that you can die in a fire...
Like I said that is your choice and completely up to you but not a choice I would make obviously you didn't really read all of my post because I did say that we had a house fire (over a year ago) that left my mom in the hospital with smoke inhalation. And actually when I was about 4 we did have a house fire in the small 1 bed-room apartment (attached to my great-aunt and uncle's house) that my grandma, my mom, my younger brother, and I all lived in early in the morning while we were all sleeping at the time and it wound up completely burning the attached apartment; So I do know it's not something to toy around with. You also didn't read that don't have any children of my own right now (unless you count my cats).

Plus that's a really low blow saying that I would jeopardize the daycare children. There are different way to make sure my cats get out, you don't know how my set up is or if I would have an assistant. Right now I don't even know what the layout of my house would be (haven't moved into it yet) and chances are my mom would be home because she is going to be working nights. If they are in a bedroom, I could just break a window to make sure they have away out or if they free roam make sure all the doors are open so they can get out. There are lots of ways to try to help someone in a house fire.

But thanks for calling me "reckless" because I value what you see as a lower life form... But keep in mind that you don't know me, you don't know my family, you don't know what I have lived through, and you don't know what things would completely destroy me psychologically. I don't shouldn't have to justify myself to you, only God can Judge me.
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Old 03-07-2014, 12:08 PM
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My heart goes out to everyone involved.

A long time ago I was thinking it over and came to the sobering conclusion that, at the time when my DS was a baby and not walking, that if a fire broke out I would probably save all the dcks first and come back for DS. Let's face it. The news wouldn't care if a provider's OWN child was injured or killed, but you'll be lambasted by everyone in the city if a dck gets injured or killed--especially if you saved your own child first.
It makes me tear up thinking about it even now, but my feelings are the same. And I pray with all my heart that I never have to act on that.
I too completely understand where you are coming from! Its sad but, its true for me. Thankfully, my own children are older and if I am telling them to get the f- out of the house (sorry pretty sure that word would be said) they are going to.
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Old 03-07-2014, 12:17 PM
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Not sure if this info is buried somewhere in the above comments re: 9V batteries. Old and new 9V batteries are a fire hazard. In order to store them and dispose of them safely, you cover the negative and positive ends with electrical tape.
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Old 03-07-2014, 12:26 PM
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Not sure if this info is buried somewhere in the above comments re: 9V batteries. Old and new 9V batteries are a fire hazard. In order to store them and dispose of them safely, you cover the negative and positive ends with electrical tape.
Yes, thanks! I actually wrote that but forgot to quote so it might look "lost" . Someone had said mostly only old ones which is definitely not the case!
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Old 03-07-2014, 12:28 PM
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Yes, thanks! I actually wrote that but forgot to quote so it might look "lost" . Someone had said mostly only old ones which is definitely not the case!
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Old 03-07-2014, 12:49 PM
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Like I said that is your choice and completely up to you but not a choice I would make obviously you didn't really read all of my post because I did say that we had a house fire (over a year ago) that left my mom in the hospital with smoke inhalation. And actually when I was about 4 we did have a house fire in the small 1 bed-room apartment (attached to my great-aunt and uncle's house) that my grandma, my mom, my younger brother, and I all lived in early in the morning while we were all sleeping at the time and it wound up completely burning the attached apartment; So I do know it's not something to toy around with. You also didn't read that don't have any children of my own right now (unless you count my cats).

Plus that's a really low blow saying that I would jeopardize the daycare children. There are different way to make sure my cats get out, you don't know how my set up is or if I would have an assistant. Right now I don't even know what the layout of my house would be (haven't moved into it yet) and chances are my mom would be home because she is going to be working nights. If they are in a bedroom, I could just break a window to make sure they have away out or if they free roam make sure all the doors are open so they can get out. There are lots of ways to try to help someone in a house fire.

But thanks for calling me "reckless" because I value what you see as a lower life form... But keep in mind that you don't know me, you don't know my family, you don't know what I have lived through, and you don't know what things would completely destroy me psychologically. I don't shouldn't have to justify myself to you, only God can Judge me.

Well, my bad for not reading the posts way up there better, I was meaning as an adult. As a 4yr old you're really not responsible for anyone else, someone is responsible for YOU. When you have been in a house fire and your family or daycare kids are in danger, I think it's a little different then when you're 4 and your own mother suffers from smoke inhalation and you're worried about the cats. 4yr olds don't really understand things the way perhaps a 40yr old would. I am not judging you, I didn't call YOU reckless. I think it would be considered reckless to leave children to save a cat. It's my opinion just as much as it's your opinion that you would. Call it conviction, call it an opinion... whatever. But I didn't call YOU anything. I asked if you've been in a house fire, I suppose I should have clarified because I did read that you were as a child, but I meant more as an adult when you may have to consider other people's lives. You've made it clear that your animals mean more to you than your own family and that's your right. I didn't say you WOULD leave kids to save animals, you did. I'm just simply trying to wrap my mind around the idea of leaving these poor defenseless children who you've been professionally hired to care for, on the sidewalk to run back in for an animal. It may be brave, but like the guy who tried to help put out our fire, I wouldn't want anyone to be a hero for MY cat, MY possessions, etc. What you do is what you do and you have to sleep at night with that so be all means, risk your life for your animals. I would just hope as a provider you wouldn't leave them to do so. I didn't say you would, did, etc. but that's what I got from your post just as you got judgment and rudeness from mine. It was merely curiosity and amazement really. I guess I'm just too selfish to want to risk my life for a cat. Not because he's meaningless, he's quite meaningful to us actually. We've spent a small fortune on him when others would have put their cat down. I've seen people do so for far less. I've always loved my cat and would do what I could aside from risking my own life to save him. Sorry, my life IS more important than my cat's because my cat doesn't care for my kids, other people, etc. I suppose if I had nothing to lose BUT my cats than it would be different and that's probably why I'm having a hard time even comprehending this. I don't have to though, but please don't think I don't love my cat or somehow feel he's a "lower life form"... Some people feel children are a lower life form and kill them every day, but that's another debate altogether. Babies and children hold the highest regard in my life. They are my life. You may not understand that and that's fine. I'm sorry that my post upset you so much.
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Old 03-07-2014, 01:03 PM
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Well, my bad for not reading the posts way up there better, I was meaning as an adult. As a 4yr old you're really not responsible for anyone else, someone is responsible for YOU. When you have been in a house fire and your family or daycare kids are in danger, I think it's a little different then when you're 4 and your own mother suffers from smoke inhalation and you're worried about the cats. 4yr olds don't really understand things the way perhaps a 40yr old would. I am not judging you, I didn't call YOU reckless. I think it would be considered reckless to leave children to save a cat. It's my opinion just as much as it's your opinion that you would. Call it conviction, call it an opinion... whatever. But I didn't call YOU anything. I asked if you've been in a house fire, I suppose I should have clarified because I did read that you were as a child, but I meant more as an adult when you may have to consider other people's lives. You've made it clear that your animals mean more to you than your own family and that's your right. I didn't say you WOULD leave kids to save animals, you did. I'm just simply trying to wrap my mind around the idea of leaving these poor defenseless children who you've been professionally hired to care for, on the sidewalk to run back in for an animal. It may be brave, but like the guy who tried to help put out our fire, I wouldn't want anyone to be a hero for MY cat, MY possessions, etc. What you do is what you do and you have to sleep at night with that so be all means, risk your life for your animals. I would just hope as a provider you wouldn't leave them to do so. I didn't say you would, did, etc. but that's what I got from your post just as you got judgment and rudeness from mine. It was merely curiosity and amazement really. I guess I'm just too selfish to want to risk my life for a cat. Not because he's meaningless, he's quite meaningful to us actually. We've spent a small fortune on him when others would have put their cat down. I've seen people do so for far less. I've always loved my cat and would do what I could aside from risking my own life to save him. Sorry, my life IS more important than my cat's because my cat doesn't care for my kids, other people, etc. I suppose if I had nothing to lose BUT my cats than it would be different and that's probably why I'm having a hard time even comprehending this. I don't have to though, but please don't think I don't love my cat or somehow feel he's a "lower life form"... Some people feel children are a lower life form and kill them every day, but that's another debate altogether. Babies and children hold the highest regard in my life. They are my life. You may not understand that and that's fine. I'm sorry that my post upset you so much.
I'm sorry, but you just went on that huge tangent unnecessarily. She NEVER once said she would leave children anywhere in order to get her cats out. She never once said she would choose her cats OVER the children. AND she DID experience a house fire as an adult... that piece of information you overlooked was in the first sentence of her last post.
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Old 03-07-2014, 01:12 PM
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Sorry, I was just trying to clarify and I guess I read too fast on the first sentence and misunderstood what she meant. My bad. I wasn't trying to ruffle feathers, I was truly curious as I really don't know anyone who risk their own life for a cat but I guess I just know mostly moms. It's just a different world than those without kids and I often forget some people truly view animals as children and would give their life for them.
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Old 03-07-2014, 01:22 PM
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What is your perspective BCat, if your pets and kids and daycare kids were all in the same house? Just curious.
I don't think I can truthfully answer that.

I have never been in that situation and I won't ever have to be since my kids aren't little anymore.

I did lend a bit of perspective about my feelings when I replied to SilverSabre though..

Here is my post to her...
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I totally understand where you are coming from.

I don't know what I would do in that situation for sure and hopefully will never have to find out but I have often felt the same way in other similar (but not nearly as tragic) situations.

For example, my DS and his friend were playing outside at my daycare one time. My DS, now 22 yrs old was about 7 at the time. Anyways, he and his friend were splitting rocks. (My DH builds split rock fireplaces and such...) and my DS ended up getting his finger smashed between two rocks.

It ended up being a really bad accident...he had a long surgery to repair, months of PT and Dr's visits.

I remember looking back that the biggest thing I felt was relief that it was MY child that got hurt and not one of the daycare kids.

I know you know what I mean..... so I don't need to explain why.
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Old 03-07-2014, 04:49 PM
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you ladies are silly. Because if there was a fire in your house, you wouldn't think, you would go into auto pilot and just do it. You would try to save the whole house if you could and everything in it, because thats the way we are, we are human. I would try and save every living thing in my house including all the children and the pets, again its just the way we are wired.
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Old 03-07-2014, 05:27 PM
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And that's your choice but to me they are a member of my family (probably more-so than most of my family members) that can't just be "replaced" like a lost pair of earrings. Heck, my brother once caused a kitchen fire that lead my mom in the hospital for smoke inhalation and I was mad because they left the cats in the house (they opened the windows {screened} but still). Pets maybe 'replaceable' to you but to me there are living being with unique personalities just as humans are (though, not many people are all that "unique" IMHO). It may seem silly to you but sometimes it seems like everyone I have ever cared about has either left me or continued to disappoint me time and time again- except them.

But the reason why I brought up my pets is that I'm not 100% sure what I am doing with my cats during daycare hours- If I'm going to have them in my room or a closed off section during daycare hours or let them free roam. I am not going to just leave them in a locked area, trapped with no exit to be put to their death either by being tortured and burned to death or slowly asphyxiated by smoke inhalation (which ever gets them first). As a HSP who has dealt with depression, I know personally I would not be able to live with that guilt and that no matter what the start of the fire was that I would always blame myself and never find inner peace. Just thinking about it right now is reducing me to tears.
I don't crate my dogs because I'm terrified of a fire. They wouldn't have a chance. My dogs are locked in my bedroom with a dog door that leads to the side yard. That way they could get out. Maybe you could install a small cat/dog door that leads outside and create an inclosure for them so other animals can't get them but they can get outside ? I know a few people who have something like this.
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Old 03-07-2014, 07:03 PM
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I don't crate my dogs because I'm terrified of a fire. They wouldn't have a chance. My dogs are locked in my bedroom with a dog door that leads to the side yard. That way they could get out. Maybe you could install a small cat/dog door that leads outside and create an inclosure for them so other animals can't get them but they can get outside ? I know a few people who have something like this.
I was thinking about something like that I just don't know how much it would cost and we would be renting so I probably can't install anything but I was thinking what if I could find one that could hook up threw a window?

Though if I was rich enough I would just have emergency sprinklers installed in every room in my house (we once lived in an apartment that had that and they checked them regularly).

Last edited by Starburst; 03-07-2014 at 08:10 PM. Reason: ETA
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Old 03-07-2014, 07:12 PM
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I was thinking about something like that I just don't know how much it would cost and we would be renting so I probably can't install anything but I was thinking what if I could find one that could hook up threw a window?
I'm pretty sure they do make them that hook up to a window.
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Old 03-07-2014, 07:21 PM
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you ladies are silly. Because if there was a fire in your house, you wouldn't think, you would go into auto pilot and just do it. You would try to save the whole house if you could and everything in it, because thats the way we are, we are human. I would try and save every living thing in my house including all the children and the pets, again its just the way we are wired.
Actually, I do NOT go on Autopilot in an emergency. I act according to pre-planned contingencies I've thought about in my head for long periods of time. I am one of those people who functions VERY well in an emergency and loses my head AFTER everyone is safe.

And...not directly to you countrymom but as a general response to the discussion...I wouldn't go back in for my pets. Not my cat, not my dog, nothing. Because as much as I love them, if they don't get out, there are literally thousands more waiting in the shelters. Cats especially--you're NOT going to be able to find a cat in a fire. If they don't get out on their own or aren't lurking by the door to escape as soon as it's opened (and they might, because they can sense stuff we can't), they are going to be in deep, deep hiding and you aren't going to be able to find them in the smoke and stuff. And they would NOT come out for you. They're cats. In certain situations, maybe--depending on where the fire is and what's going on. But probably not. Leave the front door open? Absolutely. Tell the firefighters, "my cats are still in there!" Obviously. Go back into a dangerous situation and die? For a child. Maybe an adult. Not for an animal.
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Old 03-07-2014, 08:09 PM
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I'm pretty sure they do make them that hook up to a window.
That's good, I will look into it.
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Old 03-10-2014, 02:52 PM
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you ladies are silly. Because if there was a fire in your house, you wouldn't think, you would go into auto pilot and just do it. You would try to save the whole house if you could and everything in it, because thats the way we are, we are human. I would try and save every living thing in my house including all the children and the pets, again its just the way we are wired.
different people have different kind of autopilots. I know a situation when a teacher smashed the window of the room that was on fire. As a result very many children died because the flame got extra oxygen and quickly engulfed the huge space(((

unfortunately to be on autopilot doesn't mean to act correctly.
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Old 03-12-2014, 09:36 AM
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Default My response to a house fire.

I have dcks, a daughter of my own, a cat and a dog and if my house was on fire, my main focus would be getting the dcks out of the house safely. My DD is almost 18 years old so she's familiar with what to do in the case of a fire. She would get out safely. As far as our pets are concerned, I would save them if I could but I wouldn't put my life in jeopardy by running into a burning house to get the animals. Don't get me wrong...I really do love my pets but I can't justify making my DH a widow and my DD motherless by going back into a burning house.
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