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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>3 New Families Started In The Last Week And Looks Like I'll Be Closing Tomorrow
aDCProvider 01:17 PM 04-09-2014
Had 2 new kids start last week, one new one yesterday, and one new one today. New one from today was just sent home with a fever (on his first day!) and now I have a fever (which never happens), and of course my son has a fever!

My illness policy states that I will follow the same exclusion policy (within reason) with my/my son's health. So, I'm excluded because I have a fever so will be closing tomorrow.

How bad does this look to the new families'????
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Blackcat31 01:21 PM 04-09-2014
Spin it in a positive way....

Let them know that although it's hard to start off this way, you want to make sure they know that their child's health IS your priority so that is why you take your own illness policy so seriously.

Let them know that by being so diligent about exclusion, it WILL help eliminate the back and forth spreading of illnesses in child care which in turn WILL benefit them in the long run.

I hope you and your son feel better soon!
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Michelle 01:59 PM 04-09-2014
in a way it's good that you are looking out for yourselves but kids get sick ALOT and they may want to know if you are going to close every time your kid gets a runny nose or cough or only if it's a high fever and something very contagious and serious.

I personally would not close for a cold.
I have a very large house and 2 assistants so I can keep my own kids separate
but even when I had a small daycare and doing this by myself , I didn't close for a cold or fever with my own kids. I just kept them separate from others.
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Crazy8 02:03 PM 04-09-2014
Originally Posted by Michelle:
in a way it's good that you are looking out for yourselves but kids get sick ALOT and they may want to know if you are going to close every time your kid gets a runny nose or cough or only if it's a high fever and something very contagious and serious.

I personally would not close for a cold.
I have a very large house and 2 assistants so I can keep my own kids separate
but even when I had a small daycare and doing this by myself , I didn't close for a cold or fever with my own kids. I just kept them separate from others.
Agree with this. I wouldn't close unless I was really sick, heck even then sometimes I've muddled thru with my DH's help. If I just had a fever I would take some tylenol and just keep going.
As a parent I would be concerned that you are going to close with every minor illness.
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Evansmom 02:08 PM 04-09-2014
But OP has a fever herself. That warrants closing in my opinion. If it were me I would not work around small children with a fever and if I were a parent at the daycare I would be thankful that the provider closed. I would be angry if I dropped my child off at daycare to a sick provider and found out later the provider was working with a fever/illness.

OP I think you're doing the right thing, even though it's hard to do. I think BC's advice for spinning it positively to parents is a good way to explain it.
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Cradle2crayons 02:10 PM 04-09-2014
Originally Posted by Evansmom:
But OP has a fever herself. That warrants closing in my opinion. If it were me I would not work around small children with a fever and if I were a parent at the daycare I would be thankful that the provider closed. I would be angry if I dropped my child off at daycare to a sick provider and found out later the provider was working with a fever/illness.

OP I think you're doing the right thing, even though it's hard to do. I think BC's advice for spinning it positively to parents is a good way to explain it.
I wouldn't close, however, I always give parents a heads up if I'm sick or my kids are sick. If I'm really sick, I will wear a mask during direct or close contact to prevent spread. I've actually NEVER closed for mine or my kids illness and nobody has ever caught what we have had.

However, I think it's fair to notify parents of illness and let hem decide. If they decide to bring hem, then they certainly can't get paid if it's transmitted.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 02:14 PM 04-09-2014
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
I wouldn't close, however, I always give parents a heads up if I'm sick or my kids are sick. If I'm really sick, I will wear a mask during direct or close contact to prevent spread. I've actually NEVER closed for mine or my kids illness and nobody has ever caught what we have had.

However, I think it's fair to notify parents of illness and let hem decide. If they decide to bring hem, then they certainly can't get paid if it's transmitted.
Me, too.
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Scribbles 02:21 PM 04-09-2014
I think if you choose to stay open even with fever you are part of the problem of repeat illness. If you have a fever you are sick. Why expose all your daycare kids to that? A cold or something not really excludable, i totally understand but a fever is excludable in most states so I would close for a fever. Plus you can rest and feel better faster if you don't open. If it was my kid, id probably stay open but keep him separated from the others.

If you do and they get sick and have to stay home will they still have to pay? If they do then as a parent I'd be mad. What is your policy for daycare kids absences? Whats your policy for days you are closed? Do families still pay anyways?
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Starburst 02:24 PM 04-09-2014
Originally Posted by Michelle:

I personally would not close for a cold.
I have a very large house and 2 assistants so I can keep my own kids separate
but even when I had a small daycare and doing this by myself , I didn't close for a cold or fever with my own kids. I just kept them separate from others.
I kind of agree. I totally understand the importance of your own health and making sure that you are well rested. But I wouldn't close either unless I was on heavy medication or so ill that it affected my ability to do regular activities, such as if I was constantly throwing up. If in the future I closed every time a family member had a fever (especially my mom) it would make more since financially to run an infirmary (or sick care center) instead of a daycare.

I went to an provider orientation last week and they did cover what should the state says should excluded (fever over 100, vomiting, etc.) but they said you didn't have to exclude for a common cold but anything beyond that you would. But of course, it might be different in other states.

For me the whole point of exclusion is to make sure that the other children are not exposed to it. As my teacher/ CD center director (who used to have a home daycare) would say: if two kids have it, it's an epidemic and you have to put up a notice either way. If they and your son are the only children in your care, and they are already sick then I wouldn't bother closing because they already have it and you can't catch it. If you do have other kids, I would consider wearing one of those surgical masks around. One of the assistants at the daycare I used to work at did that when she couldn't afford to take anymore sick days after 2 weeks but was still feeling sick.

Either way, I would let parents know that both I and a family member are sick and that if I did choose to stay open it is there choice to attend or not, the procedures I would take to prevent further spreading of the illness, and whether or not I would still charge if they kept their children home.

But overall, if it is in your policies (and especially if they are new clients) then it's best to stick with what is in your policies to show them that you take your policies seriously.
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aDCProvider 02:59 PM 04-09-2014
In response, I would never close for just a cold. The reason I'm considering closing is that a few of my family members, who had been in my home recently, were diagnosed with strep over the last couple days. I thought my son and I got away clean, but it seems not. Also, in my state, as per regulations, I must exclude (why would the provider be any different) for a fever and my son is 5 months old so how do I exclude him? It's not like I can send him to him room to keep him away from the other kids.
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TwinKristi 03:18 PM 04-09-2014
I would need to look back to where I found it, but if you only have a fever, that alone isn't enough to exclude according to the CDC. If you have a fever AND other symptoms, then you exclude/close. Someone in a local FB group was just looking for a way to show parents in our licensing regs that we have to exclude for a fever over 100.5* and I found "signs of illness" requires separation but even the CDC said a fever without other symptoms doesn't automatically mean the child should be excluded. Same with the common cold.
Found it! http://cfoc.nrckids.org/StandardView/3.6.1.1

Originally Posted by :
Fever without any signs or symptoms of illness in children who are older than six months regardless of whether acetaminophen or ibuprofen was given. Fever (temperature above 101F [38.3C] orally, above 102F [38.9C] rectally, or 100F [37.8C] or higher taken axillary [armpit] or measured by an equivalent method) is an indication of the body’s response to something, but is neither a disease nor a serious problem by itself. Body temperature can be elevated by overheating caused by overdressing or a hot environment, reactions to medications, and response to infection. If the child is behaving normally but has a fever of below 102F per rectum or the equivalent, the child should be monitored, but does not need to be excluded for fever alone;

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TwinKristi 03:22 PM 04-09-2014
Every individual has to decide for them self on this policy, but perhaps you can stay open and have baby in a carrier, up in a high chair, in a gated area away from the others. And if you don't have a sore throat yet, I would wait it out if you feel ok otherwise. The blurb I quoted just supports the idea that fever ALONE may not have to be excluded for yourself as well.
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Cradle2crayons 03:24 PM 04-09-2014
Originally Posted by Asmithdaycare:
In response, I would never close for just a cold. The reason I'm considering closing is that a few of my family members, who had been in my home recently, were diagnosed with strep over the last couple days. I thought my son and I got away clean, but it seems not. Also, in my state, as per regulations, I must exclude (why would the provider be any different) for a fever and my son is 5 months old so how do I exclude him? It's not like I can send him to him room to keep him away from the other kids.
For the same reason school systems don't let teachers stay home for he same excludable symptoms...

If he's five months old it would be easier to separate him than if he were say two or three.

My point of exclusion is because children ages one to four, especially, are not good at not spreading their snot everywhere.. As well as coughing and sneezing germs everywhere. As an adult, I'm more Than capable of containing my own germs.

However, OP, it's your house, your program, and you have to do what's best for you. However, I'd be prepared for backlash from the families over not wanting to pay every time you close for illness.
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daycare 03:32 PM 04-09-2014
it sounds like everyone was already exposed anyways. I would let the parents know that YOU are not feeling well, have been running a fever. they can bring their child if they would like. If they don't bring them that is on them and you will not credit them for that day.

I would not close either. I would stay open and just have a free play movie day with zero activities. If I could, I would have someone come help you if you can find someone.

Speaking for myself, I have ran daycare with fevers up to 104.1. I just take Tylenol and we don't do anything difficult that day. As an adult, I can control my germs.
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Cradle2crayons 03:36 PM 04-09-2014
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
I would need to look back to where I found it, but if you only have a fever, that alone isn't enough to exclude according to the CDC. If you have a fever AND other symptoms, then you exclude/close. Someone in a local FB group was just looking for a way to show parents in our licensing regs that we have to exclude for a fever over 100.5* and I found "signs of illness" requires separation but even the CDC said a fever without other symptoms doesn't automatically mean the child should be excluded. Same with the common cold.
Found it! http://cfoc.nrckids.org/StandardView/3.6.1.1
That website also says don't exclude (until the end of the day) for lice, rashes, ringworm.. Etc...

Ok I'm not delaying exclusion for lice, rashes, or active ringworm.

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
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TwinKristi 03:38 PM 04-09-2014
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
For the same reason school systems don't let teachers stay home for he same excludable symptoms...

If he's five months old it would be easier to separate him than if he were say two or three.

My point of exclusion is because children ages one to four, especially, are not good at not spreading their snot everywhere.. As well as coughing and sneezing germs everywhere. As an adult, I'm more Than capable of containing my own germs.

However, OP, it's your house, your program, and you have to do what's best for you. However, I'd be prepared for backlash from the families over not wanting to pay every time you close for illness.

This exactly!
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Blackcat31 04:05 PM 04-09-2014
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
For the same reason school systems don't let teachers stay home for he same excludable symptoms...
If he's five months old it would be easier to separate him than if he were say two or three.

My point of exclusion is because children ages one to four, especially, are not good at not spreading their snot everywhere.. As well as coughing and sneezing germs everywhere. As an adult, I'm more Than capable of containing my own germs.

However, OP, it's your house, your program, and you have to do what's best for you. However, I'd be prepared for backlash from the families over not wanting to pay every time you close for illness.
Our teachers are required to follow the same exclusion policies as the students.

I'm confused by the number of providers who are saying the other kids are already exposed....why is this a valid argument coming from the provider end but not the parent side?

Seems none of you (general you) allow a parent to use that excuse and send their child the next day so why the difference?

For me personally, I exclude to minimize exposure so that there isn't a continuous back and forth sharing of an illness/virus.... whether or not others have already been exposed or not plays no role in my policies for excluding.

I hold myself to the same illness policies I expect my parents to follow because I feel it gives more validity to my reasons behind my policies.

Also, another poster mentioned payment....OP~ How do you handle payments from parents during daycare closures and for when children are absent?
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Cradle2crayons 04:14 PM 04-09-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Our teachers are required to follow the same exclusion policies as the students.

I'm confused by the number of providers who are saying the other kids are already exposed....why is this a valid argument coming from the provider end but not the parent side?

Seems none of you (general you) allow a parent to use that excuse and send their child the next day so why the difference?

For me personally, I exclude to minimize exposure so that there isn't a continuous back and forth sharing of an illness/virus.... whether or not others have already been exposed or not plays no role in my policies for excluding.

I hold myself to the same illness policies I expect my parents to follow because I feel it gives more validity to my reasons behind my policies.

Also, another poster mentioned payment....OP~ How do you handle payments from parents during daycare closures and for when children are absent?
I agree that I don't use the "others are already exposed" line....

But teachers here aren't allowed to go home sick unless they are vomiting or clearly very very ill. I wish they could though.
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TwinKristi 05:00 PM 04-09-2014
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
I agree that I don't use the "others are already exposed" line....

But teachers here aren't allowed to go home sick unless they are vomiting or clearly very very ill. I wish they could though.
Yeah I'm not using that excuse either, like previously mentioned, adults are able to control the spread of their bodily secretions much better than an infant, toddler, small child, etc. We don't wipe snot all over our face and play with toys, or cough spit all over the place or suck on pacifiers and take them out and set them down on something.
Teachers should be able to call in sick if needed and ours do here, but they have to pay for the sub so like anyone else, they go without pay and as a parent still have to pay daycare and such so obviously they feel the push to work.
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Blackcat31 05:17 PM 04-09-2014
You can spread a virus by touching something after you've touched your mouth or nose, you can spread a virus by talking. If people are contagious BEFORE they show symptoms, how did you contain your own germs?

Covering your mouth or keeping your snot and other body fluids contained may help but what about before you knew you were contagious?

I am NOT saying anyone is wrong to do things the way you do but again, what is your policy for child absences then when they get sick after you are and they are excluded from care? Do the parents still pay?

What if they choose to stay home if you are sick even though you are still open?
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Oss_cc 05:33 PM 04-09-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Our teachers are required to follow the same exclusion policies as the students.

I'm confused by the number of providers who are saying the other kids are already exposed....why is this a valid argument coming from the provider end but not the parent side?

Seems none of you (general you) allow a parent to use that excuse and send their child the next day so why the difference?

For me personally, I exclude to minimize exposure so that there isn't a continuous back and forth sharing of an illness/virus.... whether or not others have already been exposed or not plays no role in my policies for excluding.

I hold myself to the same illness policies I expect my parents to follow because I feel it gives more validity to my reasons behind my policies.

Also, another poster mentioned payment....OP~ How do you handle payments from parents during daycare closures and for when children are absent?
Because I have two young kids of my own, I do close for definite excludable symptoms. For instance, my 18 mo got a stomach bug a few months ago (that landed him in the hospital due to dehydration), which of course passed to my DD and myself. He started vomiting on a Monday night, so I closed Tuesday through Monday of the following week due to the length of the illness in all of us. Even though the other kids MAY have been exposed on Monday, not one of them caught it due to the swift closure and full disinfection afterwards.

I didn't charge the parents for that week because I was unavailable. It was a significant hit, but it felt fair to me. If I am available, I charge regardless of attendance. If I'm unexpectedly not, I don't charge (holidays and vacation are paid because they are planned ahead of time).

All of my DCFs were thankful that I closed and not one left.
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daycare 05:45 PM 04-09-2014
OP- I think that you should do what you feel is best for you and your family. You can't take care of others if you yourself are not well enough to even take care of yourself. Hope that came out right.

All of us have different set ups, some have assistants that can help, husbands or mothers or friends that can help when things like this happen, some of us don't.

I am sure that you have very clear policies about when a situation like this comes up so that the DCP understand and know what to expect.

If you need to close do it and try not to concentrate on how the families will take it. They will always do what is best for them, you have to do the same. If you lose a family in the process, then you can just look at it as it was not meant to be.

You know your business best and your clients. I am sorry that you are having to deal with this, sucks to be sick and have something like this to stress about.

Try to relax, do whats best for you and your family and let the DCP worry about it. I am sure that they will be more than understanding, because we are all human, we will get sick and we have no control over when it will happen.

Hugs to you, I hope it works out.
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momofboys 06:53 PM 04-09-2014
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
I agree that I don't use the "others are already exposed" line....

But teachers here aren't allowed to go home sick unless they are vomiting or clearly very very ill. I wish they could though.
This confuses me?! Doesn't a teacher decide to stay home ill of their own accord? Most teachers have plenty of sick time to use if needed. Unless you are speaking of daycare teachers at a center.

To the original poster - I would close. Sorry but I wouldn't be working if I had a fever & a 5-month-old who also had a fever. If I worked through that I believe it would likely take me longer to get better. Better to take a day off & recover quicker than work ill & take several days to get better. Don't feel guilty - take care of yourself!
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momofboys 06:57 PM 04-09-2014
Originally Posted by daycare:
OP- I think that you should do what you feel is best for you and your family. You can't take care of others if you yourself are not well enough to even take care of yourself. Hope that came out right.

All of us have different set ups, some have assistants that can help, husbands or mothers or friends that can help when things like this happen, some of us don't.

I am sure that you have very clear policies about when a situation like this comes up so that the DCP understand and know what to expect.

If you need to close do it and try not to concentrate on how the families will take it. They will always do what is best for them, you have to do the same. If you lose a family in the process, then you can just look at it as it was not meant
You know your business best and your clients. I am sorry that you are having to deal with this, sucks to be sick and have something like this to stress about.

Try to relax, do whats best for you and your family and let the DCP worry about it. I am sure that they will be more than understanding, because we are all human, we will get sick and we have no control over when it will happen.

Hugs to you, I hope it works out.


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Cradle2crayons 09:07 PM 04-09-2014
Originally Posted by momofboys:
This confuses me?! Doesn't a teacher decide to stay home ill of their own accord? Most teachers have plenty of sick time to use if needed. Unless you are speaking of daycare teachers at a center.

To the original poster - I would close. Sorry but I wouldn't be working if I had a fever & a 5-month-old who also had a fever. If I worked through that I believe it would likely take me longer to get better. Better to take a day off & recover quicker than work ill & take several days to get better. Don't feel guilty - take care of yourself!
Our small town school doesn't have resources of substitutes etc like bigger schools. And they don't get oodles and oodles of time off either. But unless they are vomiting or just so physically I'll they can't function... They tend to work. It's just how it is. It's not right or fair... Just fact.
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Rachel 10:57 PM 04-09-2014
Originally Posted by Asmithdaycare:
In response, I would never close for just a cold. The reason I'm considering closing is that a few of my family members, who had been in my home recently, were diagnosed with strep over the last couple days. I thought my son and I got away clean, but it seems not. Also, in my state, as per regulations, I must exclude (why would the provider be any different) for a fever and my son is 5 months old so how do I exclude him? It's not like I can send him to him room to keep him away from the other kids.
You are doing the right thing. I also close and use backup care if my son or I are sick enough to be excluded. I am also very lucky in that I have an assistant who is usually around, so if she can come help then I can stay open and she is with the daycare and I'm with my son. Last year he had a fever / throwing up virus for 3 days. It cost me over $300 to send to backup care for 3 days but it was the right thing to do. He was 8 months old and no way I could have kept him separate from the other kids. My older kids (ages 6-10 now) I don't close for because we have a 2 story house and the daycare is only in the living room and they are big enough to stay out (whole area is gated) and take care of themselves with just a bit of assistance for me.

Feel better!
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TwinKristi 12:19 AM 04-10-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
You can spread a virus by touching something after you've touched your mouth or nose, you can spread a virus by talking. If people are contagious BEFORE they show symptoms, how did you contain your own germs?

Covering your mouth or keeping your snot and other body fluids contained may help but what about before you knew you were contagious?

I am NOT saying anyone is wrong to do things the way you do but again, what is your policy for child absences then when they get sick after you are and they are excluded from care? Do the parents still pay?

What if they choose to stay home if you are sick even though you are still open?
If I close they don't pay. I closed almost 2wks ago because my DS was vomiting. I texted everyone and let them know at 3am that I would be closing and unless it spread to myself I thought we would be fine by Monday. Monday no one ended up coming, one boy had been treated for lice over the weekend and mom wanted to be sure and also paid. One dad had car issues and couldn't make it, he also paid. The next day one family wasn't coming because mom was off (they have 1 day off a week that changes) and the other DCB had therapy until 11 and mom was off early so by the time he came and got picked up it would only be a couple hours so she kept him home, also paid.
And just like I don't charge them if my child or myself get sick from their child, they will still pay if I get them sick and they have to stay home. Obviously if that was a consistent issue parents would be pissy and withdrawal just like a provider would term if a child was continually being brought in sick and getting everyone else sick too. I've never passed an illness to a DCK that I'm aware of but have gotten sick (and my children and dh as well) from DCKs numerous times.
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aDCProvider 04:23 AM 04-10-2014
For those who asked...I charge tuition based on enrollment. If a family chooses to not attend for any reason, they still pay full tuition. If I close early/open late for any reason I discount tuition based on how many hours I'm closing early/opening late.

I take up to 5 paid sick/personal days per year. Sometimes, I choose not to charge my families for a closure, especially if it is last minute (like a sick day) or I have to schedule a couple of closures in a relatively small time frame. I try to only use my 5 paid days with a good amount of notice, so I typically don't charge for sick days, but reserve the right to do so as per my contract with my families. My families have always been okay with how I do things and they seem to appreciate that I don't usually charge unless a closure is well planned.
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countrymom 05:50 AM 04-10-2014
for me, I would never close. Right now I feel like poo, I think its sinus but who knows. I take some advil and go about. I wouldn't be in business if I closed everytime I had a cold. I too figure out how to muddle thru the day. If I really felt bad then I would get one of my own kids to stay home from school and help out (they all can cook thank goodness)

now as for my own kids, I still stay open. 9 out of 10 times, they got it from a daycare kid. Unless they were vomiting all over the place or uncontrollable diarrhea I still won't close. Kids are going to get sick but since you just started you need to be careful about closing because of you own childs sickness, because I wouldn't want a provider who closed because her kid is sick. Inform the parents that your child is sick and go about your day.
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My3cents 11:17 AM 04-10-2014
Originally Posted by Crazy8:
Agree with this. I wouldn't close unless I was really sick, heck even then sometimes I've muddled thru with my DH's help. If I just had a fever I would take some tylenol and just keep going.
As a parent I would be concerned that you are going to close with every minor illness.


as an adult I can manage my cough, wash my hands and keep the germ spread down more then a child. Most adults catch 3 colds a year- the average. Now if your unable to move and function that is another issue, but if you can manage I would stay open. I give my parents the option to send or not send in those situations, guess what.........they all send. Colds are a part of life. True illness that bed ridden you is not. A fever in a child can turn fast into more then a cold. I agree with the above but respect how everyone decides to handle this policy. I know for me I would want a bit more reliability in a provider then excluding for a cold.
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My3cents 11:26 AM 04-10-2014
Originally Posted by daycare:
it sounds like everyone was already exposed anyways. I would let the parents know that YOU are not feeling well, have been running a fever. they can bring their child if they would like. If they don't bring them that is on them and you will not credit them for that day.

I would not close either. I would stay open and just have a free play movie day with zero activities. If I could, I would have someone come help you if you can find someone.

Speaking for myself, I have ran daycare with fevers up to 104.1. I just take Tylenol and we don't do anything difficult that day. As an adult, I can control my germs.

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