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  #1  
Old 12-10-2008, 11:14 AM
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Default How Long Should 4 Year Old Nap

I run a family daycare and in the state of Maryland it is a requirement that the children get a 2 hour nap/rest period. I give all the kids a nap from 12:30-2:30 -ish. I have one parent who told her 4 year old, not to nap at my house anymore. I do not insist that she sleep, but lay down quietly. She is allowed to read books, etc., as long as she is quiet for the other kids. She is the 1st one asleep everyday. She falls asleep within 5 minutes of laying down. Her parents have always allowed her to stay awake at night till 10:30-11:30 from the time she was an infant. Now they think she is staying awake that late because of the nap. I need to add, she is only here part-time, but goes to bed everynight that late. Every child I have ever watched including my own, have taken naps and still go to bed by 8-8:30. I feel that the parents are blaming me and my nap policy for their child not going to bed at night, when I feel it is their lack of dicipline on getting their child on a decent schedule. Any opinions would be appreciated, however, with all the new centers opening around us, I cannot afford to tick people off. In my area, alot of home providers are struggling and I know they can go just about anywhere.
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  #2  
Old 12-11-2008, 08:37 AM
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ALL of the children i keep have naptime. ALL of them. Its in the contract and that is my "break" time(if you want to call it that). I too tell the parents that we have a 2 hour quiet time regardless of if your child sleeps or not. Period! Now if these parents were to take them to a larger center they would have to have quiet time also. I had a parent one time tell me that she doesn't use sippy cups at home (her kids were 1 and 4 at the time) and that the only time they are allowed to drink is when they are sitting at the table. I told her that they will be using sippy cups while at my house cause i don't want it on the carpet or furniture. Her rebuttlle......well if there sitting at the table they won't get it every where. Ok that just ticked me off........My response was i don't make the children sit at the table everytime they need a drink and that all the kids in my care WILL be using sippy cups including yours. That parent brings a regular cup every morning an that cup gets dumped out into a sippy cup! So i guess what my point is that if the child is sleeping at your house then let her sleep cause she is not getting the proper sleep at home. And i would just stand your ground on this. Just a word of advice.........Don't ever ever portray yourself as a push over cause they WILL push you over and over and over. Stand your ground, your house, your rules!!
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  #3  
Old 12-11-2008, 05:59 PM
Ms.Sue Ms.Sue is offline
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Default you don't need advice - you got it

haa!! You hit it perfect. It's not the child with the issue - it's the parents - as usual. Most 4 year olds still need to take a nap - especially if their parents are allowing them to stay up late....
Let the child sleep --- tell them the truth - "don't let her stay up all night - be the parent and put her to bed!!!!!!!!!"
Dont back down on what you believe - and put the responsibility BACK ON THE PARENTS!
I've been through is 100's of time too! But, I tell them like it is - you need to be the parent and put your child to bed (their bed) not the parents either!
And, I explain - if they can't control a 4 year old - then they might as well forget it when the child is about 15 years old!

(i'm originally from maryland too - live in PA now)
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  #4  
Old 12-11-2008, 09:22 PM
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Default Stand your Ground

First of all What are you supposed to do torture the child to stay awake?
Secondly if it is a required nap by the state then case closed, if it is your policy stand fast, don't give, Give a little here give a little there and pretty soon the inmates are running the asylum so to speak.

Third if the child falls asleep that fast at nap time they obviously need the rest, Kids don't sleep unless they need it!

Lastly the Parents need to be parent's as was said and set the times the child goes to bed. What are they feeding them pure sugar lol.
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  #5  
Old 12-11-2008, 10:15 PM
MissLisa MissLisa is offline
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Default Quiet time is good for them

At our centers we too have "quiet time". It is healthy for them to take a nap but some don't. I try to explain to the parents that it is part of regulations but it is also discipline in preparing for Kindergarten because they are required to follow instructions and be able to control talking when told too. Our policy is that they have to lay quietly on the cot for the first 30 minutes and after that they are allowed to get a book for on their cot. If they still don't fall asleep after another 30 minutes we give them papers to do quietly at the table. (coloring page, tracing name, counting) Mostly learning papers.

We had a parent that allowed the child to stay up as late as she wanted to. The child had a TV in her room. When she came in at 6 am she would sleep till snack time and then was the first to fall off to sleep at quiet time. We gradually started to wake her a bit earlier each time. A bit earlier than snack time, and then instead of 3 pm... we would wake her soon... and try to have her the last to lay down. Eventually she did start to fall off to sleep at home a bit earlier. But without cooperation from the parent at home it is going to be difficult.
To discuss it with the parent I just got into a general conversation and told her how tired the child always was and made it more a "POOR MOM" issue... they respond to giving them sympathy.. and said .. I am sure it must be hard to get her to sleep at night... I don't envy you with school coming... she will be hard to get up for you... what every we can do to help... and let her know that you are going to allow her to nap but attempt to shorten it more and more in hopes that she will fall off to sleep at home earlier for her so MOM GETS SOME DOWN TIME... got to make it sound as though you are working with her .... and you feel empathy for her working so hard and caring for kids... give her pats on the back while giving her sympahy. They eat it up.
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  #6  
Old 12-18-2008, 07:58 AM
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Thanks for all the comments. Just another bit of info here. She has been sleeping in her parents bed since birth and just about a month ago, they tried to get her in her own room. Needless to say, the child told me on Monday, that her mom just moved her bed into her parents room. I am just going to do as I always have and have her take a nap with the other kids. She very clearly runs her household, but I will not allow her to run my daycare. I do need that break every day, and actually look forward to catching up on the laundry and cleaning at nap time. It is the only way, I can get my own chores done.
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  #7  
Old 12-18-2008, 05:05 PM
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My daughter turned 4 in Oct. and she takes a nap almost everyday. After lunch she ususally says she's tired. sometimes she only naps for 30 mins and other times she's out for 2-3 hours and yes, she still goes to bed by 8:30.
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  #8  
Old 12-19-2008, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I run a family daycare and in the state of Maryland it is a requirement that the children get a 2 hour nap/rest period. I give all the kids a nap from 12:30-2:30 -ish. I have one parent who told her 4 year old, not to nap at my house anymore. I do not insist that she sleep, but lay down quietly. She is allowed to read books, etc., as long as she is quiet for the other kids. She is the 1st one asleep everyday. She falls asleep within 5 minutes of laying down. Her parents have always allowed her to stay awake at night till 10:30-11:30 from the time she was an infant. Now they think she is staying awake that late because of the nap. I need to add, she is only here part-time, but goes to bed everynight that late. Every child I have ever watched including my own, have taken naps and still go to bed by 8-8:30. I feel that the parents are blaming me and my nap policy for their child not going to bed at night, when I feel it is their lack of dicipline on getting their child on a decent schedule. Any opinions would be appreciated, however, with all the new centers opening around us, I cannot afford to tick people off. In my area, alot of home providers are struggling and I know they can go just about anywhere.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi,
I am a provider. I get that problem ocassionally with a parent complaining that their child won't go to sleep. If you try doing a vigorous activity at 10:30 or 10:45 (outdoor play, a game), then a quiet activity at 11:00 (coloring, books, free play, childrens show) (so you can prepare lunch), have lunch at 11:30 and naptime at 12:00, it does make a difference in when the children fall asleep for the parents.


Games they love that tire them out, but are safe
Have them start at one end of a hall or room and you tell them to be something you name (dog, cat, snake, baby, tree, etc...). You or an older child show them how to be it. They go from start to finish and back to start for each one.


Dancing with big balloons - they bounce and stick, they love it and relay races

Have a great day
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  #9  
Old 09-10-2009, 10:08 PM
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Unhappy Daycare Naptime

I am a parent who is concerned with the amount of time that my is in napping at daycare. I picked her up early the other day, 4:00 p.m., and she had just awoke about 15 minutes before my arrival and they went down for nap at 12:30. I think that is excessive. I put her to bed by eight everday and she struggles to fall to sleep. Most times she tosses and turns in bed for two hours before she actually falls to sleep. What can I do to address this issue?
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  #10  
Old 09-11-2009, 03:49 AM
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I too have children that will sleep till 4. But they didn't fall asleep till 2:30 or so. So, my point is, maybe she didn't fall asleep till towards the end of nap time, and I WON"T wake a sleeping child unless it is getting close to pick up time. At age 4, taking a 2/3 hour nap is common at my house. These kids get up early in the morning and their days are very busy.

As far as your child not wanting to go to bed at night. It has nothing to do with the nap at childcare, I would say it has more to do with how it is simply done at home. Kids have a way to get what they want at home.

I too have went thru the "Please don't let them sleep for more than 1 hour" because they won't go to sleep at home. Hmm, take out the tv and dvd player from their bedroom. Put them to bed at a descent time, shut out the light, and discipline them when they disobey. This is what is frustrating, the provider gets the blame for a child not wanting to sleep, yet the parent lets the kid lay in bed and watch tv.....this was the situation with me.

I have a kindergartener in my care, goes in the morning, and he gets back at 12:30, eats, and takes a 1 1/2 to 2 hour nap everyday. His days are very busy. I also have a first grader in my care, no school days, she lays down also, her choice to look at books or do something queitly, and 99% of the time she rolls over and goes to sleep.
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  #11  
Old 09-11-2009, 07:31 AM
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I recently implemented mandatory nap/rest time (like 2-3 weeks ago) in my home daycare. The 4 year old in my care USED to lie down nicely, I would rub his back just like every one else's and he would fall asleep for usually about half an hour to an hour. On Wednesday he suddenly decided he's going to SCREAM and cry for Mommy at quiet time. I don't know where it came from. I've told him every day, you don't have to sleep, you just have to lie down quietly and until Wednesday, it's been no problem, he's been good. I don't know what the change was - other than on Wednesday when his mom picked him up she told me she'd prefer him not to nap because apparently he had a really hard time going to bed - and I noticed too that all of a sudden when he was napping the next day he'd start talking about nightmares he'd been having. Weird, right? He screamed again at naptime yesterday. I was advised by a friend of mine who's worked in centres for over 6 years to try telling him if he needs to cry, to cry into a pillow (because he's clearly doing it just to be disruptive), and he would put his chin on the pillow and scream out of it even louder. I don't know where this came from! But yesterday after he screamed for 10 minutes and woke everyone up, I finally said "If you lie quietly until (the other child) goes to sleep, we can do a craft after" and instantly he smiled and shut up. It's strange - this kid is usually VERY agreeable. He usually cries when Mom first drops him off (actually that's even been minimal the last couple weeks) and he can clearly see from other kids that I'm not one to cater to whining and things like that - I had a 3 year old who was VERY "strong willed" about potty training, meal times, shoes, etc. and I would actually sit there with him for 45 minutes until he'd use his words to say "I'm finished eating" or put his shoes on or whatever, when I had someone else here to take the other kids out to play or whatever. I don't give into ploys for attention.

Sorry to put this in your thread - I don't have any advice, just needed to share this bizarre behaviour...
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  #12  
Old 09-11-2009, 08:22 AM
laundryduchess@yahoo.com laundryduchess@yahoo.com is offline
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Default question for amanda

have you just simply told him, when you yell at nap you will get no craft time. Period. Hes 4, not a baby. He seems smart. Be straight with him. when he arrives say Little Billy, if you scream at my home you will have to lose an activity. If your quiet, you get the activity.

Make it story time or playdough time or whatever,... something that happens BEFORE nap remind him the first day during the activity that if he screams he will not do the activity the next day. If he does scream,.... the next day say,.. Billy, you dont get to play (the activity) today because of your behavior yesterday. Im sorry but you chose to throw a fit, you need to go sit while we do the activity. Then when you lay them down say ,.. Billy,.. if you scream today you will not do the activity tomorrow. It will be fresh in his mind that he missed out because of his behavior. I bet it will take one day,.. possibly two to fix this issue. If it doesnt work the first day pick something really fun to exclude him from. And if anyone wants to flame me go ahead. Thats how it works here,.. You behave and get fun things,.. You misbehave and you dont. Amazingly,.. the kids behave,.. listen and after a time or two missing a fun thing,.. they magically "get it". My opinion,.. you dont give a tantrum a reward. and any attention is attention even if its to say,.. hush, be quiet,.. stop yelling,.. Bad behavior is ignored,..Ignored behavior is not being re-enforced. the bad behavior that gets no attention is no longer getting them attention so its not worth the effort. They see that good behavior is rewarded with fun things,... the world keeps spinning and everyone is friends.
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  #13  
Old 09-11-2009, 08:25 AM
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That was my plan for today, thanks We had a little chat right before we did the craft yesterday, where I said "When you scream and cry like that it's really hard for the other kids who need their naps to get to sleep. I don't mind doing crafts with you at quiet time, but you have to lie down quietly while they get to sleep first". He agreed, we shook on it (his idea lol) then he was really quiet and perfectly nice the rest of the day. I don't expect to have this problem again, but I'm going to remind him at nap time today when we talked about.
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  #14  
Old 09-11-2009, 08:57 AM
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Default napping

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I am a parent who is concerned with the amount of time that my is in napping at daycare. I picked her up early the other day, 4:00 p.m., and she had just awoke about 15 minutes before my arrival and they went down for nap at 12:30. I think that is excessive. I put her to bed by eight everday and she struggles to fall to sleep. Most times she tosses and turns in bed for two hours before she actually falls to sleep. What can I do to address this issue?
I am a childcare provider and in my daycare i try to have quiet time from 12:30/1pm till 2:30/3pm. I do not let the children nap after 3pm simply because if the parents cant get them to sleep at home because i allowed them to sleep to late into the afternoon then guess who would have to deal with the child being cranky the next morning?
What does your provider have in her policy book about nap time? Does she state the hours? I would check that out first then simply let her know that although you understand the policy on the children having quiet time and have no issue with it you do have a problem with the amount of time she's sleeping and how long in the afternoon she's allowed to stay asleep, ask if the provider can make sure that she doesnt sleep past a certain time and explain to her that you do put your child to bed at a decent time (8pm) and the long late naps are making her bedtime difficult. Good Luck
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Old 09-11-2009, 09:24 AM
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thats great Amanda! I think alot of times ,.. they are alot more mature than any of us realize. ((())) good thoughts for you today.
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Old 09-12-2009, 04:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Thanks for all the comments. Just another bit of info here. She has been sleeping in her parents bed since birth and just about a month ago, they tried to get her in her own room. Needless to say, the child told me on Monday, that her mom just moved her bed into her parents room.
WOW. This kids 4 years old?

Obviously the father must have a girlfriend....I don't know of any man who would allow this to go on for 4 years (kid sleeping in the bed, no "marital time" available).


We have to keep in mind that not all kids are the same-my son was one of those kids who no longer "needed" a nap by the time he was 3....if he got a nap for two hours, he would not fall asleep at a decent hour. He just turned 5, and is up with the sun, going full steam ahead all day, and he's still not out of gas by 10 many nights. And I'm talking being outdoors ALL DAY LONG, not just sitting and vegging out.

He'll go to bed (sometimes under protest), but he's not tired.

I was the same way, and so are my nephews.....I think we're "cursed" with that gene that lets us get by on less sleep than average.
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Old 09-13-2009, 02:31 PM
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chickenhauler - that's true, I also was one of those kids who didn't need a nap. I was very active, and yet even when I was a baby there was no nap time for me. BUT I was very respectful and when I was told to lie down for naptime, I laid down, closed my eyes and tried REALLY hard to sleep. When I couldn't sleep, I continued to lay down without moving, pretending to sleep so I wouldn't get in trouble at daycare lol. Personally, I don't mind having a kid stay up if he can't sleep. The one I was just complaining about who decided he wanted to start screaming at nap time has been just fine lately. He lays down with the other kids, gives me about 10 minutes of "me" time before I grab him and we go and do a craft or something. He's really quiet, actually whispers for the duration of our craft time, and we have a great time together. When we're done doing our craft, then he goes to the living room and plays quietly while I clean up and do MY chores. If the kids are disruptive and inconsiderate, though, obviously this won't work...
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Old 09-18-2009, 10:17 AM
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Unhappy an exception

What if the 4-year-old won't go to sleep until after 11:00, even if he's in bed by 8:30 - 9pm?

We start our bedtime routine between 8 and 8:30 so that bath, teeth, jammies, stories and all are complete and lights are out before 9:00. By 11:00 last night, he was in bed, but still wide awake. This is pretty much how it goes every day....until weekends when we tend to skip naptime. Then he's out by 9:30.
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  #19  
Old 10-23-2009, 12:42 PM
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Default Day Care Rest / Naps

I have a 4 year old who has to lay on a mat for 1 and a half hours at her preschool/day care center. She can't get her little body to rest/sleep. The teachers reward the resting sleeping children with stickers. So every day my daughter comes home crying thinking she did something wrong because she gets no reward. Every child is different. To force a 4 year old to lay on a mat for that long doing nothing is bizarre to me. Could someone please post the Maryland state regulation that says child care workers must force a child to lay on a mat for 2 hours.

I think I read that regulation at one point and it states that a child care center must offer a nap area and a rest period but it is up to the child if he/she wants to nap or rest. I understand the need for quiet time but please this is crazy the way you think you can force children to sleep or sit still on a mat when their bodies are not able to do so.
Stop and really think about the power struggle you are creating. The feeling of shame you are creating in these children when you are telling them to do this and if they don't something is wrong with them.
You are interrupting the regulation all wrong. This regulation was to support and understand the needs of the child not to give the care giver a break.

Read and reread the regulation with each individual child in mind. Then please, please listen to the parents who knows more about their own child then the person in government that wrote a regulation that is being misused.
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Old 10-23-2009, 08:01 PM
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When my 3rd girl was 4, if she napped during the day she couldn't fall asleep at our normal 8-8:30p.m. bedtime...we have a routine every night and no TV in bedrooms.

I am a provider now and I understand the need for a break, but I wouldn't be rude to a 4 year old and make them do nothing for 2 hours if they were not tired. I don't have a 4 year old in care, but if I did and he/she was not tired, I would have them understand it's quiet time and do something quiet like look at books or play with playdough.
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Old 10-23-2009, 08:30 PM
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Letting children have quiet time is cool, until the little angel decides quiet time is for the birds and hey, if their awake, everyone else needs to be awake also.

So what exactly should be done with the children who don't "need" naps, but insist their playmates don't need their naps either?
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Old 10-24-2009, 05:38 AM
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Ah todays parents!!!

" If he/she naps to much, he/she will not sleep enough tonight"....so not true.

Actually there's some studies on this and they're conclusive: napping is very important for children and do not affect sleeping at night. What affects sleeping at night is more within the family's routine in the evening and weekends.

This is becoming more and more a problem for centers and family day cares.

At our center, we pretty strict with the 2h window and we mention it at registration.
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  #23  
Old 10-24-2009, 06:38 AM
GretasLittleFriends GretasLittleFriends is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Letting children have quiet time is cool, until the little angel decides quiet time is for the birds and hey, if their awake, everyone else needs to be awake also.

So what exactly should be done with the children who don't "need" naps, but insist their playmates don't need their naps either?
If I had a child like that I would explain to that child, "since you're growing up, you get to stay awake while the little kids take a nap. This is a privilege for you. I know you want to play with your friends, they are busy right now. If you're naughty and wake them up, you will have to lay down and take a nap."

I would also make sure I had plenty of quiet activities for them. Perhaps even once a week letting them play a computer game for 1/2 hour (with headphones on). I've got some great jump-start (educational) games for my own son. So maybe if (s)he's good all week, Friday is his/her special day?
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Old 10-24-2009, 10:09 AM
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It's not about "forcing" a child to sit on a mat for 2 hours. It's called "rest time". If they fall asleep thats even better, but they must do something quiet so the rest of the kids can sleep whether its reading a book or coloring. Most of the kids I have are under 3 and look forward to nap time. A few days a week I have a kindergartener who is here during nap time. She is allowed to sit on the couch and pick a movie to watch. She is quiet for the entire movie. About 2 hours. After that she can color.

Our state requires a minimum 2 hour "rest time" for all daycare centers/facilities. The bedtime of a child is what the parent sets when they are at home. My kids start their bedtime ritual during the week at 8:00. They are in bed by 8:45. They dont fall asleep right away and usually until 9:30 or so I can still here them rustling around and talking to each other. But its the parents decision as to when they put their kids IN THEIR BEDS.

One more thing... about late naps. I have 2 kids who are 13 mo and 16 mo. They get here before 7:30 and they go back to sleep for about an hour or so. They nap from 12:00 to 2:00-2:30. Sometimes, NOT all the time, they are also in need of an afternoon nap between 4:00-5:00. It's not an everyday thing but sometimes babies need more sleep time. I dont wake them until pick up time unless they wake before that themselves. At that age parents are happy that they napped as much as they wanted because that makes them happier kids when they get home. The parents I have put their kids to bed between 8:00-9:00 every night.

Enough of my rant but I think its every providers call during the day and the parents responsibility at night. I am not going to allow a child to suffer from exhaustion because the parents dont want them to sleep. Not my problem.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:56 AM
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Unhappy son sleeps too long at daycare too

I completely understand the need for quiet time at daycare, however, I am in the same boat with a lot of these parents - if my 4 year old son naps at school, he doesn't fall asleep at home until 10:30-11. He only goes to preschool 2 (full) days a week - per Ohio law, the child must have the "rest period" not because the state mandates SLEEPING, but rather it is the teacher to child ratio that drives the centers policy. At 4 years of age, the ratio of teacher to child goes up to like 1:12 kids. When the kids are "resting" (on their cot) the ratio doubles to 1:24. And this is when the teachers take their breaks - each one takes 1 hour. If a child gets up from their cot during this time, they are immediately out of compliance with the state law.

My son does not nap 5 days out of the week, and only goes to sleep at preschool. He has a good routine, up at 7 am, busy all day, and bed at 8-8:30. No TV in his room or other distractions, has never slept in our bed, does not have any sugary stuff from dinner to bedtime. On the 5 days he doesn't nap...he is great, in bed and passed out within 15 minutes. On the two school days, he struggles and yells for us, for 2-3 hours because he is bored or not tired, or needs more books or whatever the excuse. I don't believe it is our fault he can't fall asleep or that we have a poor routine for bed time. It is pretty clear to me, the day care nap throws him off his natural bodily "routine."

I have read the posts, and I have done my homework with how sleep affects kids. And its true, when they are littler, the more sleep, the better. But I do feel the daycare is not really trying to work with us. I have asked that he be taken to another room when the other kids lay down, but they just stare at me blankly. Or how about bringing in someone else so if a child does want to get up, they are not out of compliance? Or how about working with another classroom and designate one room for the "napping" kids, and the other room for the kids who don't nap.

I am not blaming the teachers and I don't think the child providers should always blame the parents. I can't be the only parent who is having these issues at this day care!
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Old 11-10-2009, 11:43 AM
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Default Try to think of it this way...

There are lots of kids for us to consider. I realize that it's a huge pain for the non-napper and the non-napper's parents but consider this: the non-napper shouldn't be allowed to wake up the rest of the kids just because he/she isn't tired and is rady to play. I am a home daycare provider so I don't have another teacher to send mine to if they decide that they don't feel like napping. I have to think of eveyone's well-being. I don't force naps but I do enforce quiet time. It's just not an option. If a kid doesn't fall asleep, that's fine, they just to have to be be quiet (no toys!!!) but if they do fall asleep, then I let them sleep. Their little bodies aren't meant to be forced awake anymore than they should be forced to sleep. Also, home daycare providers wouldn't get a break at all if it weren't for nap time. We don't have anyone to cover our breaks and if no one napped, then that would be absolutely no break at all for us.
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Old 11-11-2009, 07:41 AM
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Exactly. Home daycares are at a particular disadvantage to parents who don't want their kids to nap. My rule is, you HAVE to lay down. You don't have to sleep, but if you do, I'm not going to wake you. If a child falls asleep as soon as they lay down, guess what, they NEED that sleep, as much as the parents want to say they don't. I have no problem waking them up after an hour or so, but if they wake up miserable, then who is that really serving? Not me, and certainly not the child. If a child doesn't fall asleep, then they rest for a while, and if they are capable of playing quietly, they are permitted to do so after they rest for at least half an hour. If they're too noisy though, back to the cot they go. Period.
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Old 11-11-2009, 08:29 AM
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Default straight from my contract

My contract that the parent agrees simply states the following.

ALL children in care take a nap each day. Please do not let them ‘sleep in’ if they were up late the night before daycare. I promise to make sure they get their rest.
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Old 11-26-2009, 06:59 PM
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Default is it a law?

Is it a law (in NYS atleast ) that children in day care need to nap or is it the decision of the provider?
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Old 01-07-2010, 12:36 PM
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I am a parent of a 4 year old and to be honest, I am appalled at the comments made by some daycare providers on this message board. Wow. Ms. Sue: "It's not the child with the issue- it's the parents - as usual". How presumptuous and wrong you are. I am a teacher, and we are taught that the parents are the first and most important "teachers" of their children.

My son, even though he does not need a nap would always nap given the opportunity-- placed in a quiet dark room...of course he would. So would I. And this was the case at his in-home daycare. I spoke with the provider, whom he loved, and she was as stubborn as you all, and said all kids must rest for those two hours. Since he was the oldest child at daycare, she was UNWILLING to make an exception for him. And since he regularly fell asleep, she did not listen to me, and ASSUMED that I was WRONG and she was RIGHT.

When he was at home, he never napped and was fine. He would go to bed at a reasonable hour (8:00) and wake up around 7:00. When he would go to daycare and had a nap, he consistently said "I'm not tired! I'm not tired!" at night and would be up until 10:30. This was not due to my LACK of parenting skills or ability. He was TRULY not tired.

Turns out, I pulled him from his daycare which he loved for this VERY reason. He is now at Montessori preschool and flourishing. They do not require a nap and he is doing lovely, on a regular schedule and learning/playing for two extra hours instead of being forced to nap. I am so happy I made this decision.

Parents know best. And if you are unwilling to meet a reasonable request in the best interest of the child then you shouldn't be practicing daycare.
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Old 01-20-2010, 12:22 PM
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I am very surprised to hear daycare providers speak this way in a public forum.

I am the parent of a 3 1/2 yr old who does not need a nap. On weekends, she is quite happy and content, goes to bed at 8-8:30pm tops, getting up at the same time as we would on weekdays when we go to daycare, 7:30am ish.

Yet on weeknights, I cannot get her to sleep. This is not a question of discipline, as I have no issue on the weekends when she does not take a nap. The only difference is the daycare nap of approx 2 hours. She usually falls asleep around 10:30 - 11pm. Almost exactly 2 hours later...see the link!

I find your comments on parents to be generalizations that are not helpful to parents and children. Some children may need a nap while others do not...you shoudl be able to adapt your practices to these facts.
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Old 01-20-2010, 09:10 PM
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I have a 4 year old in my care pt & also a 3 year old. The 4 year old naps 1.5-2 hrs a day & the 3 year old naps maybe 1-2 x a week. I don't force her to take a nap but parents encourage it. We just do quiet time for an hour. I think if the child doesn't need to nap that is fine but the provider does need at least a 30 min "break" to go to the bathroom & sit & eat. I don't see a problem with rest time per se or doing quiet activities so long as the child doesn't disrupt sleeping children. I literally do not sit down for more than 5 min when I have kids in my care so I truly need some quiet time.
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Old 02-11-2010, 07:55 AM
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I am a parent of a 4 year old and to be honest, I am appalled at the comments made by some daycare providers on this message board. Wow. Ms. Sue: "It's not the child with the issue- it's the parents - as usual". How presumptuous and wrong you are. I am a teacher, and we are taught that the parents are the first and most important "teachers" of their children.

My son, even though he does not need a nap would always nap given the opportunity-- placed in a quiet dark room...of course he would. So would I. And this was the case at his in-home daycare. I spoke with the provider, whom he loved, and she was as stubborn as you all, and said all kids must rest for those two hours. Since he was the oldest child at daycare, she was UNWILLING to make an exception for him. And since he regularly fell asleep, she did not listen to me, and ASSUMED that I was WRONG and she was RIGHT.

When he was at home, he never napped and was fine. He would go to bed at a reasonable hour (8:00) and wake up around 7:00. When he would go to daycare and had a nap, he consistently said "I'm not tired! I'm not tired!" at night and would be up until 10:30. This was not due to my LACK of parenting skills or ability. He was TRULY not tired.

Turns out, I pulled him from his daycare which he loved for this VERY reason. He is now at Montessori preschool and flourishing. They do not require a nap and he is doing lovely, on a regular schedule and learning/playing for two extra hours instead of being forced to nap. I am so happy I made this decision.

Parents know best. And if you are unwilling to meet a reasonable request in the best interest of the child then you shouldn't be practicing daycare.
Thank you for this post. I too have a 4 year old at daycare. We too are having the same issues. I am appalled as well. It is hard enough leaving your children and now after reading all the comments of daycare providers it makes it even harder...thanks.
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Old 02-11-2010, 11:28 AM
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I don't require the kids to sleep. But they all must lay down and rest. I close the blinds and put on a celine dion lullaby cd. I have kids from 11 months-5 yrs. My daughter being the oldest. She knows that after lunch everyone goes in the room to lay down. If she is still awake after I'm done eating, washing dishes and cleaning up, which can take from 30-45 mins than I let her get up and she usually does her leapster in the kitchen. The 4 yr old dcb normally naps as well. If he is still up when I'm done with my work, I let him get up and he colors or does a puzzle. BUT, by 3pm or so, he gets real nasty because then he is tired.
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Old 02-11-2010, 01:44 PM
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If your child no longer needs a nap, pull them from the home daycare and wrestle it out with a center that is probably going to tell you your child needs to lay down for a certain amount of time.
Not every environment is right for every child. We do a ton of arts and crafts in my home. A couple of projects every day. It's what I do. I would not make and exception for a child that was into sports or basketball or soccer or whatever to go outside and play their choice of sports while the rest of us did the art activities. If that child or their parents were so opposed to doing what I had scheduled, and they knew that was the type of program I ran, then they need to find care elsewhere.
Nap time is a scheduled daily activity and it is usually written about in every home providers policy so the parents should know about it in advance. If they do not want their child participating in any of the scheduled daily activities then the child should not be in that program. The provider should not be and is not obligated to "make exceptions" for anyone.
Kid age out of programs all the time. To the woman who left and put her kid in a Montessori program - you probably did your provider a favor and saved her the time and energy of finding an excuse to terminate you. Home providers don't really have the luxury of worrying about the best interests of a particular child, it's the best interest of all of the children. If your kid is the square peg and going to screw up the nap routine of all of the rest of the kids, YOUR kid needs to go somewhere else. Not really an issue.
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Old 02-11-2010, 02:13 PM
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I have to agree with the kids need naps crew... and not just because I need a break, but because the kids do. If a child falls asleep, they're tired. Yes as adults you can put us in a dark room we'll fall asleep, because most of us don't get enough sleep for how hard we work, and quite possibly in a perfect world should get a nap. LOL But since that's not going to happen at least the little guys should get to rest when they need it. With mine I didn't realize for a long time that I was missing the window of time when they would be able to go to sleep. I was putting them down to sleep at 8:30-9 and they pushed their bedtimes to 10 or 11 acting completely wired the whole time. We made bedtime 7pm, made the routine set in stone, use white noise, and bedtime is now not a big hassle. It is bedtime period. A helpful book for us was The No-Cry Sleep Solution For Toddlers & Preschoolers by Elizabeth Pantley. Tons of good suggestions for setting up a good routine, environment, and diet that will set children up to be able to fall asleep at bedtime.
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Old 02-11-2010, 03:27 PM
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At my former center yes there was a mandatory naptime. No child is forced to sleep but they must be on their mat and lay quietly. If they fall asleep great. If not, then depending on the child we would give them books or puzzles etc.

State requires that should a child not be asleep within 30 mins they must be allowed to get up and walk around. We never allowed that since they would wake up their friends and all heck is broken loose.

State law also states that naptime is no longer than 3 hours. Our nap was from 1230-230 so only 2 hours. Every child was required to get up regardless of what time they went down. The only exception we made was when we had a field trip and if we got back late then the kids would sleep until 3:00. However no longer than that.

Sometimes parents would say they didn't want their kids sleeping or they would ask us to wake them up earlier. Depending on the child we would do it or not. One little boy (3) was there at 6:30 a.m. but wouldn't get picked up until after 6 or later and the parents didnt want him to nap because he didnt sleep well at night. I refused. I said this child is here ALL day (mom was at school, dad at home, yeah I know!) and I wasnt going to make the day miserable for everyone just so he can go to bed at 7 for them. Well, I didn't say it like that but you know what I mean!

I think that if you just let the children all have a rest period and tell the kids that they dont have to sleep but they do need to rest, things will eventually work out IMO
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Old 04-09-2010, 11:21 AM
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Why would a home daycare provider need a "Break" during the day to get their "own" chores done? I am at work all day a do get to get my "own" chores done on my break.
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Old 04-09-2010, 12:20 PM
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Because our homes are our places of business. Every business has "housekeeping" that needs to be done. Some companies hire this out to be done at night after close, some make employees do the task during working hours.

With children in the house dishes get dirtied, the trash gets full, toys get strewn about, housekeeping stuff needs to happen throughout the day..period.

You can also not expect a person who works 12+ hours a day to not have a break. Do you get a break + lunch break during your job?
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Old 04-09-2010, 12:25 PM
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Why would a home daycare provider need a "Break" during the day to get their "own" chores done? I am at work all day a do get to get my "own" chores done on my break.
For the exact same reason that everyone else needs a break when they are at work - duh!

Under normal working conditions, it is required by law that employers give hourly employees a break after working a certain amount of hours a day. Employees tyically spend this "break" eating lunch, running personal errands, or doing another personal activity of their choice. Why would you think that a home daycare provider would not be entitled to the same "break" that people who work outside the home are entitled to? And just to enlighten you, most of our "own" chores are actually a direct result of having YOUR children in our home. We do laundry which includes linens and clothing that YOUR children have soiled, we do dishes that YOUR children have dirtied, we sweep and mop floors that YOUR child have dumped their lunch all over, and sometimes we start preparing dinner in the afternoon which quite often will also be lunch for YOUR children the next day. So, if it makes you feel any better, we are actually still working through our "break".
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Old 04-09-2010, 01:17 PM
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Why would a home daycare provider need a "Break" during the day to get their "own" chores done? I am at work all day a do get to get my "own" chores done on my break.
WOW!!! I can't believe this! We are cleaning up after the daycare children- sweeping, doing dishes, cleaning off tables, highchairs, putting away toys, washing bibs, blankets, sometimes clothes, towels, washclothes, getting afternoon activity together, running copies, the list goes on and on with everything!!!!
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Old 04-09-2010, 01:27 PM
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Reading these posts especially misol just re-affims that fact that I made a great decision not sending my child to a home based daycare. My child is in a school setting and thank goodness. If you are so concerned with OUR children making messes then you shouldn't be running a business out of YOUR home. Also...the parents are paying your salary...why do you have to be so harsh and blame them for every single issue? All I have to say is, "wow!".
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Old 04-09-2010, 03:16 PM
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The answer is easy in this case. Home and center based childcare providers get to make their rules as they with as long as they follow state guidelines. It is up to the parent's to read the policies and make sure that they feel comfortable with these and if they aren't then they can simply look around and find one that fits their needs. Even some center-based childcare's have a two-hour nap/quiet time policy so it's not a matter of home-based or center-based daycare's. And then there's the fact that even when you find that perfect center the child may not fit perfectly with the staff or home-provider. Parent's should do what they feel is best for their children and if it isn't a good fit then pulling them out is the best thing to do.
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Old 04-09-2010, 04:24 PM
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Perhaps a suggestion would be for parents to spend a day with their provider so that they see the work that is done. So many parents think we sit and watch children (or tv) and don't really understand how much pressure and stres there is. That is not to negate the work parents must do at their job.

In the past I've had 2 parents work with me for the whole day. I asked them to work the 12 hours I work, not the 8 they would work in their job. They were my best supporters after that.

Walk a mile in my shoes. Change 24 diapers, fix 48 meals/snacks in a day. And so many things the state requires us to do on a daily basis. I need the break. Quiet time is required here. If you don't want a quite time, there are providers that specialize in older children who don't need the nap.
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Old 04-09-2010, 04:27 PM
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have you just simply told him, when you yell at nap you will get no craft time. Period. Hes 4, not a baby. He seems smart. Be straight with him. when he arrives say Little Billy, if you scream at my home you will have to lose an activity. If your quiet, you get the activity.

Make it story time or playdough time or whatever,... something that happens BEFORE nap remind him the first day during the activity that if he screams he will not do the activity the next day. If he does scream,.... the next day say,.. Billy, you dont get to play (the activity) today because of your behavior yesterday. Im sorry but you chose to throw a fit, you need to go sit while we do the activity. Then when you lay them down say ,.. Billy,.. if you scream today you will not do the activity tomorrow. It will be fresh in his mind that he missed out because of his behavior. I bet it will take one day,.. possibly two to fix this issue. If it doesnt work the first day pick something really fun to exclude him from. And if anyone wants to flame me go ahead. Thats how it works here,.. You behave and get fun things,.. You misbehave and you dont. Amazingly,.. the kids behave,.. listen and after a time or two missing a fun thing,.. they magically "get it". My opinion,.. you dont give a tantrum a reward. and any attention is attention even if its to say,.. hush, be quiet,.. stop yelling,.. Bad behavior is ignored,..Ignored behavior is not being re-enforced. the bad behavior that gets no attention is no longer getting them attention so its not worth the effort. They see that good behavior is rewarded with fun things,... the world keeps spinning and everyone is friends.
What I do I turn the tv on to a nick jr, PBS, or a movie to unwind everyone who is older and can nap on their mats and blankets for 1/2 an hr. everyday. THis unwinds the children and I shut it off after that, then it is naptime! They all get used to this and unwind and fall asleep after they each go to the bathroom and I shut tv off. It works well.
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Old 04-09-2010, 08:48 PM
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Reading these posts especially misol just re-affims that fact that I made a great decision not sending my child to a home based daycare. My child is in a school setting and thank goodness. If you are so concerned with OUR children making messes then you shouldn't be running a business out of YOUR home. Also...the parents are paying your salary...why do you have to be so harsh and blame them for every single issue? All I have to say is, "wow!".
Nowhere did I blame a parent for any issue.

I am not so concerned with children making a mess in my house - that is expected and comes with this line of work. What I am concerned with is people who think that they should get a lunch break while they are on their job but that I shouldn't get a break while I am on mine. I am sure that all the teachers at your child's school take breaks. And I am certain that they clean up during business hours too. So I'm not sure what you meant when you said I reaffirmed your decision to choose a center over a home daycare.

I re-read my post and becasue of the caps I may have sounded a bit harsh. I was merely trying to point out that we are not at home doing our own personal chores all day. This business REQUIRES upkeep of the home. So when we are cleaning, doing dishes, sweeping, etc. while on our "break", we are in fact, doing our jobs. My nap/rest period is for 2 hours but between the late drifters and the early risers, I am lucky to get half an hour of uninterrupted time each 11-hour day. The children still have to be monitored even while they are sleeping. So, unless a provider is fortunate enough to have an assistant, there is really no "break" until the last child leaves for the day.

I think that grandmom has the best suggestion.
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Old 04-10-2010, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
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Reading these posts especially misol just re-affims that fact that I made a great decision not sending my child to a home based daycare. My child is in a school setting and thank goodness. If you are so concerned with OUR children making messes then you shouldn't be running a business out of YOUR home. Also...the parents are paying your salary...why do you have to be so harsh and blame them for every single issue? All I have to say is, "wow!".
I also didn't remember any comments made about how she is concerened with children making messes. A went back and re-read them and all I saw was a provider talking about tasks that needed to be done.

Quote:
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Reading these posts especially misol just re-affims that fact that I made a great decision not sending my child to a home based daycare..
This comment right here is like saying that all home provider's follow the same policy which is just like saying that all parent's are the cause of their children's issues which seems to me that is what sparked a debate. I know that we don't all have the same nap policy. I have nap/quiet time. Notice that there is a slash between nap & quiet which I have also noticed in some of the comments above. Everyone in my care is required to participate in either nap or quiet time but I never force the children to sleep. If they can keep quiet they can still do activities such as reading in the book nook, coloring, drawing etc. If they make too much noise then they need to lay down quetly with a book. I do not force them to sleep just like I don't force them to stay awake. We do a lot of physical activites here and if a child wants to nap and happens to fall asleep during this time then I will not stop him/her even at a parent's request. I explain this to all of my families from the beginning so that they are aware because the way I see it is if the child falls asleep then they are tired. If a child sleeps for two-hours then I will coax them into getting up but usually this is not a problem because after about an hour I will start an activity with the children (still quiet) that are awake and this usually wakes the rest of them. I don't believe that forcing a child to participate in any activity is helpful including keeping a child awake.

Also, I require all children to at least stay quiet during this time as a common courtesy to the rest of the kids who do want to nap. Letting one child disturb the rest of the children is unfair not only to the provider but to the other children as well. In my home-based daycare I teach common courtesy, manners, and mutual respect for everybody which I believe is very lacking in our youngsters today. This time is a great opportunity for children to learn that they need to be aware of those around them.
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Old 04-11-2010, 02:53 AM
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For the exact same reason that everyone else needs a break when they are at work - duh!

Under normal working conditions, it is required by law that employers give hourly employees a break after working a certain amount of hours a day. Employees tyically spend this "break" eating lunch, running personal errands, or doing another personal activity of their choice. Why would you think that a home daycare provider would not be entitled to the same "break" that people who work outside the home are entitled to? And just to enlighten you, most of our "own" chores are actually a direct result of having YOUR children in our home. We do laundry which includes linens and clothing that YOUR children have soiled, we do dishes that YOUR children have dirtied, we sweep and mop floors that YOUR child have dumped their lunch all over, and sometimes we start preparing dinner in the afternoon which quite often will also be lunch for YOUR children the next day. So, if it makes you feel any better, we are actually still working through our "break".
Welcome to being self employed.

If you think you have it tough doing daycare, come with me for a week.

70+ hours in 6 days, all kinds of climates and weather, and on the 7th day, I don't get to rest, I do maintenance and repairs (and deal with daycare kids)

But, it's what I do for a living. We all do stuff that is dirty, unglamorous and challenging.
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Old 04-12-2010, 12:14 PM
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Default WOW! This thread took a sudden turn!

As far as the sleeping goes, I take the approach that even the kids don't sleep, they still need to have a rest time. Also, I don't wake kids up, their bodies will let them know how long that they need to sleep.

For the people who are giving the home providers a tough time for needing the time to have a break of their own during nap and for using the time to clean up, until you have personally provided care for children that are not yours, save your judgements. We have to have the time to clean up from meals, snacks and to sanitize toys between uses and nap time is an excellent time to do these things. We don't have the luxury of waiting until all of the kids are gone before cleaning our homes. Think about how gross that would be if sweeping didn't get done after meals, or the dishes just piled up all day long. Think about if the provider didn't sanitize the toys often throughout the day. If you picked up your child from a daycare home that was a pigsty, it wouldn't instill much confidence in the provider, would it? We have to have the down time to get some of these things done because when our kids wake up, we want to give them all of our attention, so naptime makes sense to get things done.
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Old 04-12-2010, 02:07 PM
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Reading threads like this one make me so thankful for the amazing families I have in my daycare. People who respect the amount of time, effort, energy, money and love I invest in their children. I spend my day teaching preschool, doing crafts, going on field trips, playing outside and doing many other activites; nap time is the only time I have to do dishes, pickup toys, sweep and all the other things that keep my home up to the standards that I as a parent would expect from my daycare. This isn't the type of break that parents get, I'm still working! But I love it and it is so worth all the time.

As for my children who don't want to take naps...my policy is it's quiet time so that means they need to be quiet. They have to stay on their mat but I give them books, puzzles, and sticker books to look at/play with. But if a child lays on their sleeping mat and falls asleep while looking at a book I definetly would not wake them up b/c a parent doesn't want them to nap. Napping is important at that age. And since I dont have a television there would be no other quiet activity I could offer them.
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Old 04-27-2010, 11:34 AM
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Default Daycare Napping Issues

I have a three year old girl who is also resisting nap, but mainly at daycare. At home she has her own room. We put her to bed at the same time as the daycare to try and accomodate her routine. Mostly my DD will nap at home, sometimes she plays quietly in her bed, sometimes she makes noise and I have to go and tell her to go to sleep. The rule of thumb is, if I don't hear her, I assume she is sleeping.

She always goes to bed with very little complaints at 8:00pm. Since we have been having napping issues, we have been keeping her up until 8:30pm to try and help the daycare lady.

At daycare she has been refusing to lay down with the other kids, and is being defient about it to the daycare lady.

I have asked the daycare lady if she has tried giving her a book, her letting her come down and watch TV on the couch. The daycare lady's response to the book was she "rustles" and wakes the other kid. When I suggested the TV she said, "She sits for 10 min and then begins to run." I tried giving her a backpack of quiet toys from home, that I know she sits quietly and plays with. She put her in the snack room where there is just one other baby in a playpen. She apparently threw her books around and made a lot of noise to attempt to wake up the other baby.

I have tried writing her a special story, where she is the main character about a girl who doesn't like naps but falls alseep and has an adventure, so I tell her to close her eyes and think about going on an adventure.

I have tried giving her chocolate (which we hate doing) when she sleeps. Now if she doesn't nap at daycare, I take her home and give her a nap at home rather than taking her to the park like I usually do. The first time I did that it worked for a week, but then yesterday she refused to nap again.

I know the daycare lady prefers babies to toddlers, and she told us in the interview that she usually doesn't take toddlers but since she had my 18month old she would keep my 3 year old. My three year old has been the oldest since she started there. The second oldest turned three and was kicked out shortly thereafter for being agressive. She raves about how much she loves my 18 month old but complains every day about my three year old. She doesn't eat, she doesn't sleep.

Honestly, with regards to the eating, if she doesn't eat, put the food in front of her, if she doesn't eat, take it away. What is the big deal. She is not starving. I never have these problems at home.

I think I am doing everything in my power to help the daycare lady, but I am so tired of hearing her complain every day about my daughter. My three year old behaves quite well at home. She sleeps, she eats with minimal complaining, she likes to help. Even at daycare she never hits other kids, she shares.

Is it normal for the daycare provider to complain so much, and seem not to come up with any ideas herself to fix the problem? I feel like as soon as there is a problem, the daycare lady wants me to fix it. Isn't it part of your job to maintain disicpline in your daycare? There is only so much I can do as I am not there. It doesn't really work to discipline a child after the fact.

Does anybody else have any other ideas for getting a child to lay down? I am scared the daycare lady is going to kick her out.

I live in Quebec and the daycare is subsidized, so we pay it in our Tahsis; however, finding a spot here is nearly impossible. This daycare is at least very kind. I had one who was very cold and complained that my daughter had diahrea all the time. She serverd my daughter pizza and chicken nuggets all the time. As soon as we switched and she had real food, the diahrea stopped.

Basically, the subsidized daycare situation makes it a sellers market. They have 20 kids lined up for your spot so they don't really have to put in any effort. If they don't like the kid, they just kick them out and take another one. Then you end up paying $25 a day on top of paying the taxes.
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  #52  
Old 04-27-2010, 12:46 PM
judytrickett
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I have a motto and I really mean it:

If your child has outgrown their nap they have outgrown my daycare.

ALL children nap here or they are no longer in care. Period.
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  #53  
Old 04-27-2010, 01:29 PM
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I would start looking for a new daycare ASAP.
Nap is considered by *most* (not all, I know you're out there) providers as an essential part of the day to recharge out batteries and get things ready for the afternoon.
That doesn't happen when you are trying to keep a 3 year old from waking up the other kids. If she was being quiet it might not be an issue, but it sounds like she may be trying to keep things lively.
I've been in this situation before and it made me miserable.
11 hours and no break, the worst 2 hours of my day were the two hours I spent trying to keep a 3.5 year old from waking everyone else up. It didn't last too long, because I had to ask the family to find care elsewhere.
It really sounds like your daughter is engaging in a bit of a power struggle with your provider and I would guess it's not working out well for either of them.
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Old 04-28-2010, 05:49 AM
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Default Problem Solve or Quit

Wow, it sounds like being a childcare provider is the only profession in which you can bail out as soon as a challenge presents itself. I am a computer programmer and if I quit and changed jobs every time I had to track down a difficult bug or deal with an issue I had never experienced before I would not only never find another contract, but I would also never learn anything. Meeting challenges is what makes me a better programmer. Likewise for your profession. When you have a power struggle with a child, you need to learn to diffuse the situation.

My daycare provider has a parent who is bending over backwards to back her up, or provide her with ideas to deal with the situation. When we actually solve this problem, she will become a better daycare provider since she will have learned new methods and techniques to deal with any other children that come along and I will become a better parent since I will learn new ways of working with my child. Dealing with children is a learning experience.

Finding another daycare in Aylmer is not so easy, especially if I want both my kids at the same daycare. My 18 month old will be challening to place because nobody wants babies. I moved my three year old from her old daycare to here because that woman didn't like babies.

This one loves babies, hates toddlers. My little one cries before nap and only sleeps for an hour but she doesn't complain about that since she just puts her in a playpen in another room. She can't do that with my three old so she gets in trouble.

When she is home, if I need to cook or do dishes or chores, my three year old will just follow me around and 'help' or stay out of the way. As long as I chat with her she lets me get my work done. I don't understand how at daycare she can be such a troublemaker. It is like she is watching a completely different child. My 18 month old on the other hand has temper tantrum after temper tantrum and the daycare provider raves about her.

I suspect, she just doesn't like toddlers so she is just going to complain about her until I move her so she won't have to look after her anymore. She just doesn't want to bother to work with her.
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Old 04-28-2010, 06:15 AM
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Yes, of course, you're right. She just does not want to work with your daughter. That's why she's a home provider. She was looking for an easy job where she gets to call all of the shots while parents are blackmailed into paying her loads of money to entertain their children for a couple of hours each day.
She obviously has no idea how to work with or care for children and you should be looking for care elsewhere.
Maybe you could print out a copy of your post and give it to her to help her understand what you are expecting. Even better, take some copies with you when you are on your search for a new provider. I'm sure they will be delighted to read it.
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Old 04-28-2010, 06:24 AM
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I took Vesta's post as being serious. I am sorry, so I deleted my original post to it.
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Last edited by mac60; 04-28-2010 at 07:08 AM.
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Old 04-28-2010, 06:24 AM
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Wow, it sounds like being a childcare provider is the only profession in which you can bail out as soon as a challenge presents itself. I am a computer programmer and if I quit and changed jobs every time I had to track down a difficult bug or deal with an issue I had never experienced before I would not only never find another contract, but I would also never learn anything. Meeting challenges is what makes me a better programmer. Likewise for your profession. When you have a power struggle with a child, you need to learn to diffuse the situation.

My daycare provider has a parent who is bending over backwards to back her up, or provide her with ideas to deal with the situation. When we actually solve this problem, she will become a better daycare provider since she will have learned new methods and techniques to deal with any other children that come along and I will become a better parent since I will learn new ways of working with my child. Dealing with children is a learning experience.

Finding another daycare in Aylmer is not so easy, especially if I want both my kids at the same daycare. My 18 month old will be challening to place because nobody wants babies. I moved my three year old from her old daycare to here because that woman didn't like babies.

This one loves babies, hates toddlers. My little one cries before nap and only sleeps for an hour but she doesn't complain about that since she just puts her in a playpen in another room. She can't do that with my three old so she gets in trouble.

When she is home, if I need to cook or do dishes or chores, my three year old will just follow me around and 'help' or stay out of the way. As long as I chat with her she lets me get my work done. I don't understand how at daycare she can be such a troublemaker. It is like she is watching a completely different child. My 18 month old on the other hand has temper tantrum after temper tantrum and the daycare provider raves about her.

I suspect, she just doesn't like toddlers so she is just going to complain about her until I move her so she won't have to look after her anymore. She just doesn't want to bother to work with her.
Ow wow

Okay... I don't provide services to kids who don't need a full afternoon nap. It's not discriminatory. I just don't offer that service. It's in my policies and the parents know it from the first meeting. If at ANY time their child does not need a FULL afternoon nap then my services will not meet their needs. I'm all about what the kid needs. I'm all about the parents choosing what the kid needs. I believe there are oodles and zillions of birth to five kids who don't need an afternoon nap. Your child seems to be one of them. I just don't offer THAT service HERE.

I don't need techniques or a learning experience to manage your kid during nap. It's really very simple. Either you are having the kid up and active or you are not. There's nothing to learn about. There's nothing special about the request. There's nothing unusual to find kids who don't want or need a nap and parents who agree. It's VERY common. The provider doesn't need an education or strategies. She just needs to make a decision as to whether or not she provides direct care to up and awake children during her nap time. If she does not offer that than it's time to move on.

You would think by your post that's there is some kind of rocket science to this. It's SO simple. There's no "ideas" to deal with the sitatuion. There's no need for a plan. There's no "follow me around and as long as I engage you you will LET me work"????????

Your child is not being a troublemaker. She just being UP. That's the problem. It's not a bump in the road where the provider needs to learn new strategies or methods. It's just a situation where your provider wants ALL the kids to rest QUIETLY while laying DOWN during nap and you and your kid don't want to do that. It's time to move on and find some day care that allows a three year old to be up. Good luck with that.
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Old 04-28-2010, 06:30 AM
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Ufortunately, that would mean I would never find daycare. Here for each spot, there are 20 kids lined up for each spot. If your child has any challenges at all, they dump you and find another kid.

What I am hearing from this post is that all daycare providers are like this. None of them actually like children, or maybe they like children as long as they are complacent and easy to deal with.

The provider interviews the child and parent to see if they are easy and complacent to work with, if not, they go to the next in line. If you use cloth diapers, if your child hits, or doesn't want to nap, next in line please.

I also have two children, so maybe I could find a place that is absolutely perfect for my three year old, but would my 18 month old be happy there? Should I leave my 18 month old with this lady for another year until she gets to old for her, and just move my three year old? Then I would be picking them up at two different places, perhaps on opposite ends of the city, and I would have to move the baby eventually anyway since I am sure as soon as she turns 3 the daycare lady will decide she doesn't like her anymore.

What I am looking for, is advice from a daycare provider who perhaps encountered this situation and not run from it. What did you do to fix it? Perhaps there are some ideas I can pass on to my provider in the hopes that she will not kick my daughter out in favour of a complacent, easy child.
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Old 04-28-2010, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by FrustratedMommy View Post
Ufortunately, that would mean I would never find daycare. Here for each spot, there are 20 kids lined up for each spot. If your child has any challenges at all, they dump you and find another kid.

What I am hearing from this post is that all daycare providers are like this. None of them actually like children, or maybe they like children as long as they are complacent and easy to deal with.

The provider interviews the child and parent to see if they are easy and complacent to work with, if not, they go to the next in line. If you use cloth diapers, if your child hits, or doesn't want to nap, next in line please.

I also have two children, so maybe I could find a place that is absolutely perfect for my three year old, but would my 18 month old be happy there? Should I leave my 18 month old with this lady for another year until she gets to old for her, and just move my three year old? Then I would be picking them up at two different places, perhaps on opposite ends of the city, and I would have to move the baby eventually anyway since I am sure as soon as she turns 3 the daycare lady will decide she doesn't like her anymore.

What I am looking for, is advice from a daycare provider who perhaps encountered this situation and not run from it. What did you do to fix it? Perhaps there are some ideas I can pass on to my provider in the hopes that she will not kick my daughter out in favour of a complacent, easy child.
So, let's say you are looking for a job:

Job A - NO break allowed, crappy co-workers that stress you out because they just won't work with the group. And a boss that constantly complains that even though you are working ALL day with no break and listening to your co-workes whine all day that you need to just suck it up.

Job B - Two 15 minute breaks and an hour long lunch. Co-workers that work WITH you and help to provide a fun, loving environment. Oh, and a boss that constantly tells you they are happy with what you are doing.

Hmmmm............let's see...what job would most people choose??
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Old 04-28-2010, 06:39 AM
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This accusation in my opinion, is very inapproprite. I hope you choose to go back and edit the accusations that you have made directed towards home daycare providers.
Couldn't agree more.
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Old 04-28-2010, 06:52 AM
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That is true, and for not much pay either; however, for some reason people do choose this job. Nobody is saying it is easy.

Although, I don't know what you are talking about with an hour long lunch. Most jobs here are 7.5 hours work, with a half hour lunch or 8 hours with 1/2 lunch and two 15 min breaks. I don't know anybody who has an hour lunch.

Plus if you have ever worked in an office, you sit in a cube all day, half the time you are bored because they don't have any work for you, so you need to 'look' busy. You cannot do anything that even looks remotely like you are goofing off, such as reading, surfing the internet. They walk by and look at your screen. You need to have your compiler up at all times, be in your seat and find something to occupy your mind that is not noticeable. Or you are incredibly busy and working through lunch because you have a deadline to meet, and no, you don't get paid overtime for this. Programmers are generally control freaks, so they fight all the time, misunderstand each other and it is not a fun, loving environment, and the boss rarely tells you when you do good work, but certainly points out when you mess up. This is life. This is the job I chose. I come in every day and do my best.

Daycare providers choose their job too. There are pros and cons to every job and EVERY job is hard. Pick one and do your best at it. Try and work with your boss to make it a good environment. If you don't like your job, you always have the option of doing something else. Yes, I know it is challenging to change careers, that is one of the reasons I am still here. I don't want to take a paycut.

I am sure you get rewards too, like when your kids don't want to go home because daycare is so much fun, or when you were there when the baby walked for the first time and the parents were stuck in a cubicle. There must be a reason why you do this job, or else you wouldn't do it.
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:06 AM
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This accusation in my opinion, is very inapproprite. I hope you choose to go back and edit the accusations that you have made directed towards home daycare providers.

Vesta, Question here......Are you serious in your post, or being sarcastic, someone pointed out I may have misunderstood your post, Obviously, I took it seriously. I apologize if I misunderstood it.
Goodness no I'm not being serious.
It's what the mom believes so why not just placate her and send her on her way.
Except for the part about showing providers her post. That would be great to let unsuspecting new providers know what they are in for.
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:09 AM
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Goodness no I'm not being serious.
It's what the mom believes so why not just placate her and send her on her way.
Except for the part about showing providers her post. That would be great to let unsuspecting new providers know what they are in for.
I am sorry I took it as serious. I went back and edited my own post on it.
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:13 AM
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Ufortunately, that would mean I would never find daycare. Here for each spot, there are 20 kids lined up for each spot. If your child has any challenges at all, they dump you and find another kid.

What I am hearing from this post is that all daycare providers are like this. None of them actually like children, or maybe they like children as long as they are complacent and easy to deal with.

The provider interviews the child and parent to see if they are easy and complacent to work with, if not, they go to the next in line. If you use cloth diapers, if your child hits, or doesn't want to nap, next in line please.

I also have two children, so maybe I could find a place that is absolutely perfect for my three year old, but would my 18 month old be happy there? Should I leave my 18 month old with this lady for another year until she gets to old for her, and just move my three year old? Then I would be picking them up at two different places, perhaps on opposite ends of the city, and I would have to move the baby eventually anyway since I am sure as soon as she turns 3 the daycare lady will decide she doesn't like her anymore.

What I am looking for, is advice from a daycare provider who perhaps encountered this situation and not run from it. What did you do to fix it? Perhaps there are some ideas I can pass on to my provider in the hopes that she will not kick my daughter out in favour of a complacent, easy child.
Run from it? You are assuming that it's the big bad wolf of day care experiences. There's nothing to run from!!!! Do you seriously think this is a big deal? Do you really think someone needs an education or experience to deal with this. THIS IS SIMPLE. You either have a kid UP who you are providing direct care and supervision to while they are up or you don't. Why is it hard to understand that this is NOT hard to understand.

If you can't find a day care that will work with your family's needs then quit work and YOU keep your kid up 14-16 straight hours a day and see how that works for you.

You said: The provider interviews the child and parent to see if they are easy and complacent to work with, if not, they go to the next in line. If you use cloth diapers, if your child hits, or doesn't want to nap, next in line please.

YES the provider gets to decide. It's her house. Her business. Her livlihood. You don't expect McDonalds to offer sushi do you? They get to decide what they offer. If they don't want cloth diapers then no cloth diapers. If they don't want to care for kids that have aggression then no kids with aggression. If they don't need a FULL afternoon nap then only take and keep the kids who need a FULL afternoon nap.

Bottom line is that you want a service that she doesn't offer. It feels like you want some sort of comprimise that leads to a YES for you and your 3 year old. Let me give you a little insider day care info: There's no gray when it comes to having a kid up at nap. Most providers I know look at it like this: If one is up they might as well all be up. The break in the middle of a long day that most providers want and need can not be done if ANY kid is up during nap. It's the COMPLETE quiet of her home that recharges her. It's a FULL two hour break that she looks forward to. ANYTHING that comprimises that will end up meaning she simply doesn't get a break. Even if that something is an easy three year old who will "let" her work as long as she is being talked to while the provider is working.

If there are so many more kids than providers than my suggestion is offer her a high hourly rate for having only YOUR kid up at nap. An extra ten dollars an hour during nap time might well solve this. If the provider can make another 100 bucks a week for the two hours she is doing one to one then you guys may strike a deal. That's how I manage requests to have the kid up at nap. We will do it but my staff assistant must be paid during that time to one to one the child. She's ten bucks an hour on TOP of the regular salary. So yes... we can keep your three year old up but YES we have to charge extra for it. Expecting her to do it without substantially raising her rate of pay is going to cause problems. She might be willing to do it as long as you pay the "nanny" rate for the one to one she will HAVE to receive during this time.

Nan
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:14 AM
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Goodness no I'm not being serious.
It's what the mom believes so why not just placate her and send her on her way.
Except for the part about showing providers her post. That would be great to let unsuspecting new providers know what they are in for.
Whew....good to know.....
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:17 AM
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I am sorry I took it as serious. I went back and edited my own post on it.
That's okay, caffeine hadn't kicked in yet so I was a little on the pi$$y side.

I'll go back and add a little tongue sticking out emoticon.

Okay, never mind, I guess you can't do that when you edit.
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:20 AM
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That is true, and for not much pay either; however, for some reason people do choose this job. Nobody is saying it is easy.

Although, I don't know what you are talking about with an hour long lunch. Most jobs here are 7.5 hours work, with a half hour lunch or 8 hours with 1/2 lunch and two 15 min breaks. I don't know anybody who has an hour lunch.

Plus if you have ever worked in an office, you sit in a cube all day, half the time you are bored because they don't have any work for you, so you need to 'look' busy. You cannot do anything that even looks remotely like you are goofing off, such as reading, surfing the internet. They walk by and look at your screen. You need to have your compiler up at all times, be in your seat and find something to occupy your mind that is not noticeable. Or you are incredibly busy and working through lunch because you have a deadline to meet, and no, you don't get paid overtime for this. Programmers are generally control freaks, so they fight all the time, misunderstand each other and it is not a fun, loving environment, and the boss rarely tells you when you do good work, but certainly points out when you mess up. This is life. This is the job I chose. I come in every day and do my best.

Daycare providers choose their job too. There are pros and cons to every job and EVERY job is hard. Pick one and do your best at it. Try and work with your boss to make it a good environment. If you don't like your job, you always have the option of doing something else. Yes, I know it is challenging to change careers, that is one of the reasons I am still here. I don't want to take a paycut.

I am sure you get rewards too, like when your kids don't want to go home because daycare is so much fun, or when you were there when the baby walked for the first time and the parents were stuck in a cubicle. There must be a reason why you do this job, or else you wouldn't do it.
Um..yeah....and most daycare providers work a TEN hour day or more. Most providers do NOT get vacation pay, we certainly don't get health benefits and we have wear and tear on our homes.

And NO, I am NOT complaining. But I also think you can not compare apples to oranges.

And YEP, it is a CHOICE. But, just like WE chose to provide home daycare YOU chose to go to work outside the home in whatever field YOU chose. And therefore YOU chose to place your child in daycare. And by doing so you CHOSE to relinquish some control over every aspect of your child.

Just like when you send your child off to school - YOU do NOT get to chose every single thing that happens there. Schools have rules and standards and if you want to keep your child in school you follow those rules. Daycare is really no different in that respect.

Just a thought but....you seem to have A LOT of self admitted obstacles to finding care that is suitable to you. Perhaps the problem lies not in all the providers but in what you want or expect or deem appropriate.

I know that as a provider who knows A LOT of other providers Golden Families are VERY much wanted in our care. We seek them out and sign them on in a hearbeat.
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:21 AM
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Run from it? You are assuming that it's the big bad wolf of day care experiences. There's nothing to run from!!!! Do you seriously think this is a big deal? Do you really think someone needs an education or experience to deal with this. THIS IS SIMPLE. You either have a kid UP who you are providing direct care and supervision to while they are up or you don't. Why is it hard to understand that this is NOT hard to understand.

If you can't find a day care that will work with your family's needs then quit work and YOU keep your kid up 14-16 straight hours a day and see how that works for you.

You said: The provider interviews the child and parent to see if they are easy and complacent to work with, if not, they go to the next in line. If you use cloth diapers, if your child hits, or doesn't want to nap, next in line please.

YES the provider gets to decide. It's her house. Her business. Her livlihood. You don't expect McDonalds to offer sushi do you? They get to decide what they offer. If they don't want cloth diapers then no cloth diapers. If they don't want to care for kids that have aggression then no kids with aggression. If they don't need a FULL afternoon nap then only take and keep the kids who need a FULL afternoon nap.

Bottom line is that you want a service that she doesn't offer. It feels like you want some sort of comprimise that leads to a YES for you and your 3 year old. Let me give you a little insider day care info: There's no gray when it comes to having a kid up at nap. Most providers I know look at it like this: If one is up they might as well all be up. The break in the middle of a long day that most providers want and need can not be done if ANY kid is up during nap. It's the COMPLETE quiet of her home that recharges her. It's a FULL two hour break that she looks forward to. ANYTHING that comprimises that will end up meaning she simply doesn't get a break. Even if that something is an easy three year old who will "let" her work as long as she is being talked to while the provider is working.

If there are so many more kids than providers than my suggestion is offer her a high hourly rate for having only YOUR kid up at nap. An extra ten dollars an hour during nap time might well solve this. If the provider can make another 100 bucks a week for the two hours she is doing one to one then you guys may strike a deal. That's how I manage requests to have the kid up at nap. We will do it but my staff assistant must be paid during that time to one to one the child. She's ten bucks an hour on TOP of the regular salary. So yes... we can keep your three year old up but YES we have to charge extra for it. Expecting her to do it without substantially raising her rate of pay is going to cause problems. She might be willing to do it as long as you pay the "nanny" rate for the one to one she will HAVE to receive during this time.

Nan
As usual, Nan......I LOVE what you just said. Right ON the mark.
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:45 AM
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In Quebec daycare providers get two weeks paid vacation or more if they put it in their contract. The daycare is open 7-5, so yes that is almost a 10 hour day. They are not allowed to charge more. They get x amount from the government and x amount from the parent. I can't offer her more.

My child naps at home for at least 2 hours, it is only at daycare that she refuses to nap. I wonder why I can get her to nap and nap for 2 to 3 hours, but the daycare lady can't.

I would love to stay home with my children, but I would lose my house, so I guess I will just keep trying to solve this problem on my own, since nobody seems to have any ideas.

Honestly, you may all think I am a b**ch, but how many parents do you know that back up their daycare provider. I am not telling my child not to nap at her house. I am telling her to listen to the daycare provider, because she is the grown up and you are the kid. I am doing everything in my power to support the daycare provider. When she brings up issues

My kid does not hit, is not hyper or agressive, is very sweet and affectionate, gnerally well behaved. She is also now completely potty trained. Plus she hugs another baby at the daycare (not my 18 month old)that cries all the time, keeping her quiet so the daycare lady doesn't have to hold that baby all day long. She just has a stubborn streak. I don't believe this makes her inelligable for daycare. If the daycare lady kicks her out, she will be missing out on an accomidating parent, and lovely little 3 year old and the 18 month old that she seems to love dearly. I guess it is her decision, and I will just have to deal with that.

Thank you all for your time. I am sorry to have disturbed you.
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:56 AM
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Frustrated Mommy, I totally understand how frustrated you are. It sounds like you have made every effort to make this work for both your provider and your child. It does sound to me like the provider is the one with the issue here and honestly, if you feel your provider does not like your 3 year old, I would start looking for other care. Find a provider that meets the needs of both of your children and put your family on that providers waitlist. When she has space, you can terminate your current contract.

There ARE providers out here that will work with your child to make sure that her needs are being met in a way that is respectful and works for all: the child, the family and provider....as you have read here, it will be difficult, because many providers DO have the ATTITUDE that because it is their business they can call the shots and do as they please, all the while disregarding the needs of their clients....sure we all need a brek every day, but we do not NEED a 3 hour break, which is generally how long nap lasts. Why anyone thinks that is a perogative, despite the fact that many children do not need that much (if any) sleep at naptime, is beyond me.

Some suggestions: Can you wake your daughter alittle earlier each morning, so perhaps she will be a little more sleepy at naptime? Is the provider offering stimulating activity, including outdoor active playtime, so that your child will burn energy and be ready to nap at naptime? If not, INSIST that she does....your child needs it, not only for being able to rest, but because it is healthy for her.

Good luck, sounds like you have one of those providers who thinks that because it's her business, your opinion about your own child's needs is irrelevent......
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:15 AM
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Thank you so much for your reply Crystal. It is so nice to know not everybody thinks I am a b**ch.

I think I will start looking again, but it is a bit of a difficult situation here in Aylmer. I have had my three year old on the wait list for every big daycare in the area, since conception. I got called back for one, we went and did the interview, they accepted us, we gave them a void check, signed the contract, and they told us a sibling of on the kids in the daycare took the spot.

For several months I had my three year old near my house and my baby in Ottawa, which is in Ontario. I would leave my work in Ottawa, go to Aylmer, pick up my three year old, drive 45 minutes to Ottawa again, then drive an hour back to my house. I was leaving for work at 6am and arriving home with the kids at 6pm and then I had to cook supper. I got to spend no time with them. I could not pick up from the Ottawa daycare first, because it would have taken me 45 min to get there from work, and then an hour to get my three year old and I would have been late picking her up. I am sure all the providers on this board can tell you how they feel about parents that are late. The Ottawa daycare was just much more accomodating, she knew my situation and made an exception for me to help me out. Plus my baby was the only one at her daycare at the time, and she wasn't dropped off until after 9am.

I have been waking my daughter during the night and at 6:00am when I leave for work since we have taken away her diapers at night and that did help for a while. My husband gets up with her at 7:00am and refuses to get up any earlier. I think now she has just adjusted to me waking her up and is better at going back to sleep. We have been keeping her an extra half an hour, but I'm not sure that helps since I am noticing when I pick her up she is more tired and cranky, and I think it might make it more difficult for the daycare lady since she is less reasonable. Both the daycare lady and I agree that she does need a nap. She is tired and cranky when she doesn't have one.

The daycare lady often takes them to the park in the morning, and it is a 10 block walk for my daughter. We do notice that she sleeps more often when they go to the park, and I pointed this out to her as the problem started one week where it rained every day; however, the daycare lady pointed out that she slept all winter and they were inside most of the time.

Thank you so much for your support Crystal. It really helps.
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Old 04-28-2010, 09:29 AM
jen jen is offline
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Frustrated Mommy, I totally understand how frustrated you are. It sounds like you have made every effort to make this work for both your provider and your child. It does sound to me like the provider is the one with the issue here and honestly, if you feel your provider does not like your 3 year old, I would start looking for other care. Find a provider that meets the needs of both of your children and put your family on that providers waitlist. When she has space, you can terminate your current contract.

There ARE providers out here that will work with your child to make sure that her needs are being met in a way that is respectful and works for all: the child, the family and provider....as you have read here, it will be difficult, because many providers DO have the ATTITUDE that because it is their business they can call the shots and do as they please, all the while disregarding the needs of their clients....sure we all need a brek every day, but we do not NEED a 3 hour break, which is generally how long nap lasts. Why anyone thinks that is a perogative, despite the fact that many children do not need that much (if any) sleep at naptime, is beyond me.

Some suggestions: Can you wake your daughter alittle earlier each morning, so perhaps she will be a little more sleepy at naptime? Is the provider offering stimulating activity, including outdoor active playtime, so that your child will burn energy and be ready to nap at naptime? If not, INSIST that she does....your child needs it, not only for being able to rest, but because it is healthy for her.

Good luck, sounds like you have one of those providers who thinks that because it's her business, your opinion about your own child's needs is irrelevent......
Crystal, some of your suggestions are really quite helpful, but I would like to point out that we have not heard the providers side and as such shouldn't be making any kind of judgement about "what kind" of provider this is.

Personally, I have a difficult time believing the the OP is truly waking her child up in the middle of the night...at least I hope she isn't.
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Old 04-28-2010, 09:33 AM
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Thanks Jen, but I don't think I need the providers side, this parent sounds pretty truthful....she seems to have done many things to make it work for all involved, but the provider just isn't responsive to that.

In regards to waking her child up at night, she's potty training her for bedtime, I see nothing wrong with waking up to go potty.
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Old 04-28-2010, 09:56 AM
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Frustrated Mommy, I totally understand how frustrated you are. It sounds like you have made every effort to make this work for both your provider and your child. It does sound to me like the provider is the one with the issue here and honestly, if you feel your provider does not like your 3 year old, I would start looking for other care. Find a provider that meets the needs of both of your children and put your family on that providers waitlist. When she has space, you can terminate your current contract.

There ARE providers out here that will work with your child to make sure that her needs are being met in a way that is respectful and works for all: the child, the family and provider....as you have read here, it will be difficult, because many providers DO have the ATTITUDE that because it is their business they can call the shots and do as they please, all the while disregarding the needs of their clients....sure we all need a brek every day, but we do not NEED a 3 hour break, which is generally how long nap lasts. Why anyone thinks that is a perogative, despite the fact that many children do not need that much (if any) sleep at naptime, is beyond me.

Some suggestions: Can you wake your daughter alittle earlier each morning, so perhaps she will be a little more sleepy at naptime? Is the provider offering stimulating activity, including outdoor active playtime, so that your child will burn energy and be ready to nap at naptime? If not, INSIST that she does....your child needs it, not only for being able to rest, but because it is healthy for her.

Good luck, sounds like you have one of those providers who thinks that because it's her business, your opinion about your own child's needs is irrelevent......
Crystal,
Parents can have opinions but they can't have opinions that fundamentally change the structure of your business. It would be like going into McDonalds and demanding organic chicken nuggets. Even though you believe it's better for your kid doesn't mean McDonalds has to accomodate that.

Having a child up at nap is HUGE in this industry. My State even goes as far as to completely protect Centers here by making it a LAW that all children under FIVE be given a two hour nap/rest period. They even state in the actual code that the reason for this is, in part, "to give Staff a much needed break". Seriously. Wanna know why they put that in there? They put it in because they had to field SO many complaints from parents turning their Center into the State because they FORCED the kids to take a nap. The Centers have power ($$$) and FOUGHT the State. The State learned very quickly that they couldn't force Centers to keep kids up at nap just because the parent wanted it. It was easier for the State to agree with the Centers and be able to refuse to take a child abuse complaint on a Center for "making" the kids nap. They were spending way too much staff time dealing with this ONE issue that they made the decision to side with the Centers.

Now the Centers tell the parents to bug off. No nappy ... no care.

The parents solutions to this... by reading the OP are to let her be up. It's very black and white. Anything that she wants to be done with the child means her actually being UP. It's not about the three year old being quietly active during nap it's about her laying in one spot, being quiet, and not getting up until she is told she can. THAT'S nap time. ANYTHING that alters that isn't going to work with most providers.

There should not be a problem with this. It's very simple. Ask your provider if she provides services to children who do not need a full afternoon nap. If she says she does not then go somewhere else. If you can't find a business to offer the services you want then you either stop needing that service or accept the service that doesn't offer it. Providers shouldn't be in the middle of the kid and the parents wants. She offers what she offers... take it or leave it. It's not personal. It's just like every other business.
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Old 04-28-2010, 10:05 AM
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We put her to bed at 8:30. I wake her at 10 when I go to bed to pee, my husband wakes her at 12:00 when he goes to bed to pee. I wake her 6am to pee. The first week that we did this, she actually slept at daycare. Then Monday, she didn't sleep. Yesterday she slept again. Monday and Tuesday were her first dry nights. Before that it was a week of changing the bed ever morning.

My daycare lady is a very kind and loving woman and we get along great. She did tell us when we interviewed that she doesn't usually take toddlers; however, she agreed to take my three year old so that she could be with my 18 month old.

She just has a tendency to complain about my three year old and compare her to the baby. She will say to my three year old, the 18 month old, eats sleep, plays by herself, and never causes trouble. Then she will admit that the three year old actually never hits, doesn't usually cause trouble, she just doesn't want to sleep or eat.

I think she has just made her mind up that she doesn't want toddlers and so reacts negatively to my daughter. I think if she would just give her a chance, and we could fix this nap issue, then everything would be ok. I actually love the woman, and the baby loves her, which is a reason I want to stay. If I didn't like her, I would have made an effort to find something else.
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Old 04-28-2010, 10:26 AM
Golden Rule Golden Rule is offline
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Frustrated Mommy,

I am actually dealing with this right now. My 4 year old dkg, whom has been with me since 6 weeks, now does not sleep at naptime. She is not disruptive in any way, just cannot fall asleep (mostly she just watches me mop, fold clothes and blows me kisses...).

Now,After 30 minutes down on her mat, I put headphones on her, scoot her up to my desk, and log her into Time4learning.com. Her mother and I both have the password, her mother pays the subscription fee, and she feels like such a big girl!! She even can print out her scores and certificates for the week. It is preparing her for pre-k, next year while allowing me to meet the needs of everyone else.

As a mother I understand your need to see your daughter treated like the unique person she is and the effects of "Mothers guilt". As a childcare provider I understand the frustration of one child/parent making it difficult to care for the rest in a fair and consistent manner. As a paramedic I know the outright anger of transporting a dead child that could have been saved if he/she had been taught "NO" early and consistently. Please understand that is what is fueling the longterm providers frustration....not freetime to watch their soaps...I promise.

If my particular dkg had been disruptive or if this was more about being spiteful in any way, I would have to stick to the original rules set up in the original contract. (I consider it a reward, not a right.) If the "request" was from the mother (for reasons like "I want her to sleep for the night-time babysitter so she does not kick her out" ...yes, that happens way too much), even though the child obviously needed the nap, I would have to stick to the contract. I am about the best interest of the child. Sometimes that is not the best interest of myself or the parents.

I know it has been questioned why people get into home daycare...Everyone has their own reason. I would recommend asking them, in person, the first time you meet a prospective caregiver. It might save you some heartache. I, personally, got into daycare after my son died in daycare. It afforded me the ability to stay home with my own children, when I was ready to have more, while earning an income to afford them... Now they are teenagers and the dck have made them better, more compassionate people.
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Old 04-28-2010, 10:50 AM
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can I just second the below sentence,.... I totally agree!



Now they are teenagers and the dck have made them better, more compassionate people.[/quote]
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Old 04-28-2010, 11:07 AM
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I, personally, got into daycare after my son died in daycare.
Wow, thanks for sharing. That is so terribly, incredibly sad.
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Old 04-28-2010, 11:54 AM
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Golden Rule, thanks so much for your understanding. I was heartbroken to hear your story. I couldn't imagine loosing my little girls. They are the love of my life.

I understand that they daycare lady is not watching soaps but is actually doing the lunch dishes and preparing for the afternoon. I know she needs a break too. Ideally, she would just nap. That is the goal. I only offered other suggestions to the lady since she seemed unable to make that work.

I don't know why she can't seem to make her sleep. I don't have an issue getting her to sleep myself. I do think she still needs the nap.

nannyde says:

The parents solutions to this... by reading the OP are to let her be up. It's very black and white. Anything that she wants to be done with the child means her actually being UP. It's not about the three year old being quietly active during nap it's about her laying in one spot, being quiet, and not getting up until she is told she can. THAT'S nap time. ANYTHING that alters that isn't going to work with most providers.

What about my keeping her up a half an hour later, writing her story and telling her at nap time she should close her eyes and think of all the adventures she can go on, like she does in the story, keeping her schedule consistent on the weekends and putting her down for a nap at the same time as the DAYCARE lady would, not when I feel like it, punishing her when she doesn't nap by making her nap when she comes home rather than going to the park like we usually do, bribing her, having her call me on the phone when she won't sleep so I can tell her to go to sleep... Do these things sound like me being set on having her up. Having her up was one solution we tried that didn't work since she couldn't be quiet. We have gone back to forcing her to sleep again, and we have made some progress. We had over a week of her napping, then one day of fallback, and we have to see what she does today.

For the most part, I follow the daycare lady's routine. When she has parties for the kids birthdays, Easter, Christmas, I always thank her and make sure my kids thank her. When she doesn't give my daughter water all day until the snack time after her nap, and limits that, I don't say anything even though I worry about dehydration and constipation. She thinks it will make her pee at nap time, even though she drinks water all day long at home on weekends and still doesn't pee her bed. When she asked me to bring in a sippy cup for my 18 month old because she said she had issues drinking out of the sippy cups she owned and I didn't want her to drink out of a bottle since she was weaned, I brought in a sippy cup and that worked. I try really hard to let the daycare lady run things the way she wants when she has the kids.

I just think this is an issue that can be fixed. The fact that she sleeps at home tells me she doesn't just need to be UP. The daycare lady needs to find a way to reason with her, discipline her, or manage her like I do at home to make her do as she is told, like she does at home.

She is no stranger to the word no. We are quite strict at home.
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:15 PM
laundryduchess@yahoo.com laundryduchess@yahoo.com is offline
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frustrated Mommy,... I love you. =-) you sound like a really great daycare parent. want to move to Indiana? lol
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:18 PM
Golden Rule Golden Rule is offline
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nannyde says:

What about my keeping her up a half an hour later, writing her story and telling her at nap time she should close her eyes and think of all the adventures she can go on, like she does in the story, keeping her schedule consistent on the weekends and putting her down for a nap at the same time as the DAYCARE lady would, not when I feel like it, punishing her when she doesn't nap by making her nap when she comes home rather than going to the park like we usually do, bribing her, having her call me on the phone when she won't sleep so I can tell her to go to sleep... Do these things sound like me being set on having her up. Having her up was one solution we tried that didn't work since she couldn't be quiet. We have gone back to forcing her to sleep again, and we have made some progress. We had over a week of her napping, then one day of fallback, and we have to see what she does today.

I just think this is an issue that can be fixed. The fact that she sleeps at home tells me she doesn't just need to be UP. The daycare lady needs to find a way to reason with her, discipline her, or manage her like I do at home to make her do as she is told, like she does at home.

She is no stranger to the word no. We are quite strict at home.
These things make me wonder if maybe she is seeking attention by opposition? I did this to my sitters all the time when I was younger...lol!!! Maybe she caught on that when she is quiet she gets less attention and she sees this as a perfect time to get hers in? Not finger pointing at adults, just realizing how smart she is.... She is getting extra time with both of you this way Do you see it, too, anyone?... Squeaky wheel, maybe?

It is possible that the best solution is to do nothing, literally. Just put her on her mat, matter of factly, then continue with chores. No discussion. It may pass as quickly as it came on.
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:24 PM
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LOL, thank you laundryduchess.

That may be a good point Golden Rule. I will pass that along to the daycare provider. I think she is trying that now in a way.

She puts her on the mat with the other kids and stays in the room to prevent her waking the other kids, I think my daughter is at least laying down now and sleeping most of the time.

It is a little better now that she kicked out the aggressive boy. He was at times destructive and a bad influence on the other kids, doing things such as coloring on the walls etc. Then if the daycare lady had to deal with him and not get a break because my daughter didn't sleep it was really difficult for her.

I will also continue to try putting her for a nap when we get home if she didn't sleep at daycare since this is removing attention rather than giving additional attention. She missed out on a playdate on Monday because she didn't sleep so she really understood the consequences there.

Thank you both for your help.
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:56 PM
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Ufortunately, that would mean I would never find daycare. Here for each spot, there are 20 kids lined up for each spot. If your child has any challenges at all, they dump you and find another kid.

What I am hearing from this post is that all daycare providers are like this. None of them actually like children, or maybe they like children as long as they are complacent and easy to deal with.

The provider interviews the child and parent to see if they are easy and complacent to work with, if not, they go to the next in line. If you use cloth diapers, if your child hits, or doesn't want to nap, next in line please.

I also have two children, so maybe I could find a place that is absolutely perfect for my three year old, but would my 18 month old be happy there? Should I leave my 18 month old with this lady for another year until she gets to old for her, and just move my three year old? Then I would be picking them up at two different places, perhaps on opposite ends of the city, and I would have to move the baby eventually anyway since I am sure as soon as she turns 3 the daycare lady will decide she doesn't like her anymore.

What I am looking for, is advice from a daycare provider who perhaps encountered this situation and not run from it. What did you do to fix it? Perhaps there are some ideas I can pass on to my provider in the hopes that she will not kick my daughter out in favour of a complacent, easy child.

You mention contracts in your line of work....when the time comes to line up some new work, and you have tons of jobs to choose from, do you choose the most stress free, profitable one of the bunch, or do you choose the most difficult, hair pulling, demanding, and lowest paying one?


Quote:
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That is true, and for not much pay either; however, for some reason people do choose this job. Nobody is saying it is easy.

Although, I don't know what you are talking about with an hour long lunch. Most jobs here are 7.5 hours work, with a half hour lunch or 8 hours with 1/2 lunch and two 15 min breaks. I don't know anybody who has an hour lunch.

Plus if you have ever worked in an office, you sit in a cube all day, half the time you are bored because they don't have any work for you, so you need to 'look' busy. You cannot do anything that even looks remotely like you are goofing off, such as reading, surfing the internet. They walk by and look at your screen. You need to have your compiler up at all times, be in your seat and find something to occupy your mind that is not noticeable. Or you are incredibly busy and working through lunch because you have a deadline to meet, and no, you don't get paid overtime for this. Programmers are generally control freaks, so they fight all the time, misunderstand each other and it is not a fun, loving environment, and the boss rarely tells you when you do good work, but certainly points out when you mess up. This is life. This is the job I chose. I come in every day and do my best.

Daycare providers choose their job too. There are pros and cons to every job and EVERY job is hard. Pick one and do your best at it. Try and work with your boss to make it a good environment. If you don't like your job, you always have the option of doing something else. Yes, I know it is challenging to change careers, that is one of the reasons I am still here. I don't want to take a paycut.

I am sure you get rewards too, like when your kids don't want to go home because daycare is so much fun, or when you were there when the baby walked for the first time and the parents were stuck in a cubicle. There must be a reason why you do this job, or else you wouldn't do it.
Sounds to me like you hate your job, only go there for the paycheck (not because you enjoy what you do).

I was once in your position....great pay, great benefits, hated the job, hated my co-workers, hated the area I worked in, hated EVERYTHING about my career.

I quit and struck out in a new direction. Life's too short to be miserable for a few sheckels in the pocket at the end of the week.

The funny thing is, I did take an initial cut in pay, but 10 years later, I'm making over TWICE what I would have topped out at in my previous line of work. Mainly because I enjoy my work, and it shows.
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Old 04-28-2010, 01:19 PM
Janet
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Look, I can empathize with you. I had a non-napping child as well. However, I never, ever expected her to disregard her policies, the law, the rights of the other kids to nap or her own right to some down time. I made it clear to my daughter that she was to lay quietly and she would never sleep but she would always lay quietly. I have a home daycare business and I've always stuck to my nap policy. I get that parents don't want their providers to force their kids to sleep, but who says they have to sleep? I require them to lay quietly for a good portion of nap time. Please remember that you may not be the only parent with kids in your provider's care so she may have other people to please other than you. Also, when was the last time that you had to try to pacify a 3 year old without waking 5 other sleeping children? It's no easy task. As far as this business of providers not being willing to take on a challenge, I have to respectfully disagree. I love a good challenge, but I also know when it's a challenge that I don't want to take on. Your job is not like our jobs. I'm not saying that one job is better than the other, I'm just saying that they are totally different jobs. You can't compare taking on a challenge at your job to taking on a challenge at ours. Totally different. You have a boss and a goal to accomplish. We don't have bosses but we have many different people to try to make happy. It's apples and oranges.

It's great that you are willing to offer up suggestions to your provider. That's a good thing. I wish that more parents would do that, because it truly is a team effort. I'd gladly take suggestions from the parents of the kids in my care if I needed some help and I have asked for suggestions when I come across a situation that I need help on. My ego's not so big that I think that I'm the authority on all things child related. I know that you offer your provider suggestions and you say that you are on her side, but some of your comments about her tend to give me the impression that she's not doing good enough for you. I get the feeling that you think that the grass would be greener on the other side. Could just be me, I guess, but you seemed a little passive-aggressive about your provider.

If you're not happy with the nap time situation, then I think that you should try to find a provider who doesn't have napping kids or you need to keep reinforcing with your daughter that naptime is quiet time. That means no playing or talking or any other activity that could get loud. Since the other kids do nap, then it's your job to find a way to make it work. If the shoe were on the other foot, and your kid was the one with the interrupted nap, you'd expect the same, I'd bet.
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Old 04-28-2010, 01:25 PM
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Frustrated Mommy, I feel really horrible that you say this provider "hates" toddlers and is always complaining about your child Maybe your child isn't sleeping because the atmosphere isn't comfortable at all for her? Unless you are exaagerating daycare lady's feelings, I would not want my child anywhere that she is hated, simply because of her age!
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Old 04-28-2010, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by FrustratedMommy View Post
LOL, thank you laundryduchess.

That may be a good point Golden Rule. I will pass that along to the daycare provider. I think she is trying that now in a way.

She puts her on the mat with the other kids and stays in the room to prevent her waking the other kids, I think my daughter is at least laying down now and sleeping most of the time.

It is a little better now that she kicked out the aggressive boy. He was at times destructive and a bad influence on the other kids, doing things such as coloring on the walls etc. Then if the daycare lady had to deal with him and not get a break because my daughter didn't sleep it was really difficult for her.

I will also continue to try putting her for a nap when we get home if she didn't sleep at daycare since this is removing attention rather than giving additional attention. She missed out on a playdate on Monday because she didn't sleep so she really understood the consequences there.

Thank you both for your help.
Frustrated Mommy, you say your provider stays in the room with her so she won't wake up the other kids. You also said earlier that, at home, your daughter sleeps two hours at naptime. I have had the experience before with kids who don't want to nap because they are afraid they will miss something...Sounds like me when I was a kid. With those kids, I stayed in the room, and either sat down or laid down next to them and rubbed their back, arms, and eyes (whichever seems to work best for that child). Once they go to sleep, I could get up and get done what I needed to get done. I wonder if your provider has tried that? It's almost impossible for a kid to stay awake when you are rubbing her eyes, because if they keep them open, your finger will go in them. lol (oh, and no, I have NEVER allowed my finger to poke a child in the eye, just so everyone knows!) I also have lullaby music playing softly every single day at naptime, and that helps too. Just a couple ideas your might want to suggest. While in my contract it says that we have nap/quiet time from 1:30-3:30, I realize that some children have a harder time going to sleep. I try my very best to accommodate them while keeping my rules intact. It is kind of hard to get everything done that needs to be done during nap time, but if you practice it a few times, you get pretty fast at it.
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Old 04-28-2010, 06:56 PM
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Well, I spoke with my provider again today. It seems my daughter does lay down with the other kids, for as long as she stays in the room. Unfortunately, some days, after an hour of laying down quietly with the other kids, my daughter is still not asleep and then the provider wants to leave the room, to do the dishes. If she leaves my daughter in the room she will wake up the other kids, even though we have both explained to her several times that the other kids want to sleep and it is not fair to them to wake them up because you don't want to sleep. Every day that she doesn't sleep, she gets the lecture, and now she has to skip the park as well if she doesn't sleep.

Now it seems what the daycare lady is doing is taking her out of the room if she is not asleep after an hour, and leaving her in the hallway, with all the doors closed. So today she called to her sister through the door and woke her up, then she went to sleep. I understand the frustration, I would be mad at her too, and I tell her so when I pick her up. The problem is, I am not there, I cannot control the situation, so I all I get is complaints and hearsay when I pick her up. I was under the impression that she was telling the daycare lady no and not laying down on her mat. Actually what she is laying down on her mat with her eyes open and looking at the daycare lady. I will mention the rubbing of the eyes though to keep them closed. I think now she is trying to take the attention away though, since as Golden Rule mentioned, she thinks she is doing this for attention. She lays down on the floor and turns away from my daughter so as to remove the attention.

She does not "hate" my daughter. I think she likes her for the most part, but she prefers babies, and the fact that she always raves about my baby and complains about my toddler, does not make me feel good. I worry that she is going to give my daughter a complex and make her jealous of her sister whom she now loves. I also get the impression that she is looking for any excuse to get rid of her, as she makes it clear that she is doing me a favour by taking her since she doesn't normally take toddlers. She reminds me of this periodically if my daughter misbehaves.

I am frustrated with the Aylmer situation in general, since the daycares are all subsidized, but it is nearly impossible to get a spot, the daycare people are more complacent than in other places. All the people I know in Aylmer have difficulty since there are so few places for a large population. If you find a spot, you keep your mouth shut, hang on as hard as you can and pray you don't get kicked out for something out of your control. Perhaps this is where my passive agression comes from. Every time you pick up your kids, there is always something the daycare lady will complain about. At one place they told me she had diarrhea which is a kickable offence if it happens too often. Oddly enough since she the time she was 6 months old, my daughter has been so constipated she would cry when she had a bowel movement. The diarrhea complaint was a huge surprise. When she began to cry during her bowel movements again, then the daycare lady said it was perfect. When it came time to bring my baby, this woman made it clear that she didn't want babies. She begrudingly agreed to take our baby, after giving us the run around. I was concerned though that the baby would sense that she was not wanted and was looking for something else. Amazingly, I found the current lady who agreed to take both my kids. At the time I thought I was dreaming to find a place for the baby. That was pure luck.

Then this lady would complain my toddler wouldn't eat. So I told her, put the food in front of her, if she doesn't eat, take it away and don't give her cookies at snack time. She still continued to complain that she doesn't eat. I continued to reiterate, that if she doesn't eat it is fine, she just eats more at supper. Then the woman got really angry that her child eats at home but not here. She took it as a personal insult that my kid wouldn't eat her food. I explained that we had to go through an entire process of taking her supper out for breakfast if she didn't eat it for supper. Finally she got the message and now she eats at home. I offered to try that for her if it was a big deal. So she started sending the lunch home if she didn't eat it and my daughter would have to eat it for supper. She ate the meal fine at home. This made her even more angry because she felt that my daughter was being disrespectful to her by not eating at lunch time. Then I told her to make the portion sizes smaller because what she sent home was enough to feed her for the entire week, and if you put too much on her plate she thinks she has to eat the entire plate and gets discourged. This helped somewhat, she eats maybe 3 / 5 days of the week. It still bugs the daycare lady but the napping thing trumped that so she stopped complaining about it. Honestly, I don't understand why it was such a big deal in the first place. She won't starve by skipping lunch, and it wasn't causing her any more work as I was very insistant that she should not make my daughter special food. She just didn't like the idea of her not eating.

As for my job, I like it a lot of the time, hate it some of the time. I don't get to pick my contracts, I work for a consulting company and they tell me where to go. If the situation at work gets tense, I stick it out until the contract is over, because I don't think it is fair to leave the client hanging, or make the consulting company find me another job. There are not a lot of technology jobs, and I know a lot of programmers out of work, or settling for low paying jobs. I myself worked for half what I should be paid for 6 years because I didn't think I could get anything else. Eventually they laid me off while I was on maternity and I had to find something else. I ended up making twice as much money, but the other job was more fun, since I was always busy. My point is, every job has pros and cons, some of the people on here talking about what it is like to run a daycare makes it sound like they hate their job. I don't always like my job either, but I go to work, do the best I can, and I don't complain to my boss constantly unless I want to be fired. The daycare people here know they won't be fired because they are so scarce so if something causes them any effort at all, like having to heavern forbid actually wipe my daughter's bum, they pass it along to the parents and expect them to magically solve the problem.

Honestly, the daycare situtation is so bad here, I even fix the daycare ladies computer for free in the hopes that she will want to keep me around.
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:06 PM
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Oh, and the shoe was on the other foot at one point. In the previous daycare a child was biting my daughter. I actually sympathised with the mother since she was horrified and doing everything in her power to stop it, but nothing seemed to work. When my daughter left, I think she was a bit relieved, even though her daughter and my daughter were very close, because that solved the problem. I certainly didn't want that child to be kicked out of the daycare as I understand how difficult it is to find one in the first place. In fact, I was making suggestions to help resolve that situation as well.

We started getting the kids together out of daycare in the hopes that we would actually witness the biting so the mother could discipline on the spot. As with my problem, the mother was not actually there when the biting happened, so it is difficul for her to punish her child. It doesn't have the same effect when you do it hours later. I completely understand how she felt, and I was just happy my daughter was the one being bitten rather than being the one doing the biting since I was not responsible for solving that problem. I was already getting an earful every day due to the fact that my daughter had a less than firm bowel movement. You just feel completely helpless, there is a weight in your chest all the time, I get butterflies in my stomache when I leave work to pick up my kids because I am scared to find out if she slept or not today. I just don't know what to do.
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:20 PM
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Wow, that's a really tough situation. If it were me, I'd pull my kids out of daycare and start my own daycare. But not everyone is good with kids or wants to deal with kids all day. I'd start looking for other day care. I know you said it's hard to find, but that's exactly the reason you should find someone else. It sounds like it wouldn't take much for this lady to kick you out. And if you find other care, maybe you won't have to worry about your kids so much. It sounds like a very unsafe system to have too many kids and not enough daycares because the daycare providers can get away with anything by the sound of it.
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:05 PM
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Wow, that's a really tough situation. If it were me, I'd pull my kids out of daycare and start my own daycare. But not everyone is good with kids or wants to deal with kids all day. I'd start looking for other day care. I know you said it's hard to find, but that's exactly the reason you should find someone else. It sounds like it wouldn't take much for this lady to kick you out. And if you find other care, maybe you won't have to worry about your kids so much. It sounds like a very unsafe system to have too many kids and not enough daycares because the daycare providers can get away with anything by the sound of it.
I was about to suggest the idea of starting your own daycare too. Especially if the providers in your area complain as much as yours. lol You seem like someone who is willing to work with everyone else in the best interest of the child. I hate you are going through this. I hope everything works out for you!!
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Old 04-28-2010, 09:07 PM
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I am very surprised to hear daycare providers speak this way in a public forum.

I am the parent of a 3 1/2 yr old who does not need a nap. On weekends, she is quite happy and content, goes to bed at 8-8:30pm tops, getting up at the same time as we would on weekdays when we go to daycare, 7:30am ish.

Yet on weeknights, I cannot get her to sleep. This is not a question of discipline, as I have no issue on the weekends when she does not take a nap. The only difference is the daycare nap of approx 2 hours. She usually falls asleep around 10:30 - 11pm. Almost exactly 2 hours later...see the link!

I find your comments on parents to be generalizations that are not helpful to parents and children. Some children may need a nap while others do not...you shoudl be able to adapt your practices to these facts.
i agree as a parent and a care provider. when i was going to school, i worked at the "chain daycare" my kids attended. they had a naptime of 12:30 - 2:30, but in reality, they would have the kids lie down at 12 and if they weren't up by 2:30, they would let them keep sleeping. i told my son's teacher that she needed to wake him up if he wasn't up by 2:30. my kids already stay up until 10 at LEAST and letting him sleep 3-4 hours wasn't helping. my daughter who was 4 at the time got to where she no longer needed naps, along with a lot of the other 4 year olds. they would make them lie on the mats. they claim to give them books or "quiet activities" but really, they tried to make them sleep so they could break. they got downright mad and mean with the kids if they wouldn't sleep. i know. i worked there. i found it much easier for everyone to let those kids who didn't fall asleep after 30 mins come to a table with me to color or play with play dough - with the stipulation that if they got loud, they would have to lie back down. it was much easier doing that than it was trying for 2 hours to keep them quiet and still.

i'm not licensed as a daycare because i only keep 4 kids so i don't have to be. i did that on purpose because i have the freedom to let the kids sleep when they want or not make them if they don't want to. there are other advantages - like i don't have to take them outside if it's 33 degrees outside and they're all coughing. the parents love it because their kids can sleep when they want to instead of when my schedule says they have to. i don't have to stop serving breakfast at a certain time, etc. parents like that because if they're running late, their kids don't have to starve until snack time because the state says i have a cutoff time. i can basically operate like a "babysitter" but i don't charge like a babysitter. there's a difference though in being licensed and not being licensed.
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Old 05-05-2010, 07:50 AM
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I run a family daycare and in the state of Maryland it is a requirement that the children get a 2 hour nap/rest period. I give all the kids a nap from 12:30-2:30 -ish. I have one parent who told her 4 year old, not to nap at my house anymore. I do not insist that she sleep, but lay down quietly. She is allowed to read books, etc., as long as she is quiet for the other kids. She is the 1st one asleep everyday. She falls asleep within 5 minutes of laying down. Her parents have always allowed her to stay awake at night till 10:30-11:30 from the time she was an infant. Now they think she is staying awake that late because of the nap. I need to add, she is only here part-time, but goes to bed everynight that late. Every child I have ever watched including my own, have taken naps and still go to bed by 8-8:30. I feel that the parents are blaming me and my nap policy for their child not going to bed at night, when I feel it is their lack of dicipline on getting their child on a decent schedule. Any opinions would be appreciated, however, with all the new centers opening around us, I cannot afford to tick people off. In my area, alot of home providers are struggling and I know they can go just about anywhere.
Not all children need a nap. At 3 years old it is a given, among many parents that children do not nap anymore or they do not need one because they will not go to bed at night. It is like this way with ALL my friends and their kids too! Your kids were just different. Their bodies are changing. All 3 of my children are up late if they take a nap and my friends' kids too! Parents are blessed if their children take naps and then do not go to bed late at 3 and 4 years old. Your one child that is falling asleep within 5 minutes is just used to falling asleep at that time and it doesn't help her/him that the other children are going to sleep too! The parents want her to stay up so that she will go to bed. She just needs to get used to it. They are probably going out of their minds and you don't care. When children are babies parents may have a later bedtime for children because their sleep changes with age. I bet you that most of your parents do not tell you how late their children are up because of your nap policy. If you be respectful of other parents then you won't have problems. Maybe you can have an area for children whose parents do not want them to nap where they can do quiet activities and cal it "quiet time." Have you heard of "quiet time?" It is what children do when they are 3 years and up instead of napping so that they do not stay up all hours of the night. If you advertise that, I can guarantee you will have more business than anyone!! Having that child sit on the mat is telling that child that it is nap time. You need to take away the mat! This is very simple!
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Old 05-05-2010, 11:47 AM
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Default Nap time requirement

OK, to the poster who said to take the naptime mat away, this is not always a possibility. I understand that some kids give up their naps, but that's not my problem. In the state that I live in, a rest/nap time is legally required for kids that are under the age of 6 if they are in care for more than 5 hours a day. I don't tell my kids that they have to sleep, but they do have to rest. It just so happens that ALL of my dcks fall asleep so that tells me that they need the nap. Also, I think that the quiet place, like a mat for example, is necessary in order for a "quiet time" to happen. When was the last time that you tried to get a 3 year old to play quietly while all of the other kids were sleeping? Besides, it's really not fair to let one kid skip rest time while every other kid has a nap time. Plain and simple, kids need time daily to unwind, even if they don't want to sleep. And providers need time to unwind as well, and that's impossible to do if you are trying to keep one child quiet enough so as to not wake up all of the other sleeping kids.
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Old 05-05-2010, 12:04 PM
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I tell my families that Here,..ALL children nap,.. if they arent going to bed at night maybe they should get up earlier in the mornings. ??? If that doesnt help maybe a new provider is needed that caters to that niche. I personally dont. I refuse to have kids grouchy at 330 in the afternoon because they havent had a nap and all whiney and mad. Not getting along with their friends because their parent doesnt want them to nap so they go to bed at the parents choice for a bedtime. I understand that some kids need naps,.. and by about 4 some dont,.. but,... When they outgrow their nap,.. they outgrow me. I offer a service and if it doesnt fit your needs,.. by all means, find one that does. No hard feelings. Im up front about my routines and nap times. If Im not a fit for you then good luck to you in finding someone who is.
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Old 05-05-2010, 04:04 PM
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IMO, 3 yr olds need a nap. I have kids from 13 months -5 1/2 yrs old. And I will tell you, that they all nap. The 5 1/2 is my daughter. Now, sometimes after lunch, she wil stay up and work on a craft but after about 30 mins or so, she says she's tired and wants to rest. The 3 dck arrive around 6 am and are here until 5. They definetly need a nap. Sometimes, the grandpa of the 4 yr old says that he's outgrown his nap, but I can honestly tell you that he almost always the first one to fall asleep. The kids don't have to sleep. After 30-45 mins or so I will check on them and on the rare occasions when someone is still awake, I will take them in the kitchen to color, do a puzzle or some other quiet activity. But those instances are few and far between.
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Old 05-11-2010, 07:41 AM
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My soon to be 4 year old is in daycare and takes a nap. HE DOES NOT NEED A NAP AT 4! He sleeps 2 hours from 1-3pm and then is up until 10:30-11ap at night and it is killing me. Yes, I do have control over my child. I think if the parent does not want their child to take a nap you should respect that. After all we have EMPLOYED YOU! My son does not take naps on the weekend and is in bed by 8-8:30 has a good nights sleep and is fine throught the day. I can't believe some of the respones on here!! My daycare is now working with me and waking my son up early from his nap. I would respect the parents wishes if you want to keep your business.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I run a family daycare and in the state of Maryland it is a requirement that the children get a 2 hour nap/rest period. I give all the kids a nap from 12:30-2:30 -ish. I have one parent who told her 4 year old, not to nap at my house anymore. I do not insist that she sleep, but lay down quietly. She is allowed to read books, etc., as long as she is quiet for the other kids. She is the 1st one asleep everyday. She falls asleep within 5 minutes of laying down. Her parents have always allowed her to stay awake at night till 10:30-11:30 from the time she was an infant. Now they think she is staying awake that late because of the nap. I need to add, she is only here part-time, but goes to bed everynight that late. Every child I have ever watched including my own, have taken naps and still go to bed by 8-8:30. I feel that the parents are blaming me and my nap policy for their child not going to bed at night, when I feel it is their lack of dicipline on getting their child on a decent schedule. Any opinions would be appreciated, however, with all the new centers opening around us, I cannot afford to tick people off. In my area, alot of home providers are struggling and I know they can go just about anywhere.
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Old 05-12-2010, 12:25 PM
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Default To the parent of the 4 year old napper...

I'm glad that you found a provider who is willing to work with you, but you can't just assume that your child's need to not nap trumps the needs of the other children who do need a nap and the provider who deserves a small break. It's also very presumptuous of you to say that your daycare provider "works for you". I''ve got a news flash for you...you are NOT her employer. She is her own boss and she can replace you just as easily as you can replace her. It's also not her problem if your child won't go to sleep at the regular bed time. Every single kid in my care takes naps and they all go to bed for their parents at a pretty regular time. Even if my daycare kids didn't go to bed for their parents until super late, that is still not my problem. My daughter was not a napper either, but I never objected to them trying to get her to nap and I never objected to her having to lay quirtly for rest time.
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:22 PM
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I have been on both sides of the fence. I sent my kid to a daycare center, and now I run my own family daycare. I take kids ages 5 weeks to 12 years old. Lets start at the daycare center my son went to. He was an infant but I read up on naps, thinking that my child would be there until he was in school. They have a mandatory "quiet" time from 12-3. If your child does not fall asleep and is being loud then they are brought to another room with the awake children. This is not always available for home daycares....

so now on to my own home daycare. I have watched many older children ages 3-5. Each one is different. I try to stress early bedtime, especially with drop off being at 6-7am, which means the kids get up even earlier! The majority of the time when I hear "my kid wont sleep at night" I just let them know that their child falls asleep quickly and obviously still needs a nap, so I try to work with them on ways to get them to sleep at night.
Now for the children that do not fall asleep easily, I usually find this out within a few weeks of starting here, we do something a bit different. Those kids are usually 4 or 5 years old. They will help me set up the younger ones for nap, then help me clean up kitchen and play room "as quiet as they can". One 5 year old I had played peekaboo with the newborn I had that obviously was not on a schedule. Then after I am done cleaning I explained to the kids who were helping me out, that it was time for everyone even me to have quiet time. They would get their mat and lay down, and I think it helped because they considered themselves older, and having a privilage was nice to their self esteem. Most times those kids fell asleep, even if for an hour, but woke up refreshed and proud.

I hope that it all works out for you, and you can either get a system that works for your child and provider. I really suggest the "helping" with the older kids. It has helped me alot in the last 10 years!
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:27 PM
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If it wasnt' for nap time I'd go bonkers! I have a child lay down for 20-30 minutes and if they are still awake they can get a few books to laydown with. After another 20 mintues they can color or put some puzzles together at the craft table. No fuss, you don't have to go to sleep, but you need to respect others that do need a nap.
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Old 05-16-2010, 11:49 AM
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Is this your buisness or their buisness? Your rules are your rules.. tell they parent that you offer her to read book quietly on the cot but she chooses to sleep. Let her sleep.
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