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  #1  
Old 11-20-2015, 02:36 PM
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Default Ongoing Bully Behavior

I have a dck that is giving me a run for my money.

The DCF has been with me for many years. I had their older child first and now their youngest.

The oldest was the same way, perhaps not as bad.

The issue that I am having is that the child is just mean and annoys all of the other kids.

example, while in circle time, dck will put their face on other kids faces and growl or just put his face on theirs. The other kids will say stop and the dcb won't. I jump in and stop it and tell the dcb you need to honor their words. BTW hes almost 4.

I will separate and things will be fine, but then 5 min after going back to the other kids, the kid will do it or something else again to annoy or bully the other kids. The kid is very impulsive and will do anything to get attention good or bad.

DCB will not test me so much as he will my assistants. Just stinks that we have to go through this daily.

Funniest part is that mom is an ECE educator in our community.

I usually let this stuff stay here, but I am just over it. All of my staff is starting to complain about it and I need to talk to the parents, but don't know exactly what to say to them.

When I think about telling them anything, it just sounds like expected annoying kid behaviors, but from the inside looking out, it can't continue.

Here we try our best to only give attention to good behavior not bad. We affirm all of the positive things he does and really try to help him make good choices, but no matter what we do, they always will turn around and make a bad choice.

also, I am 100% certain this is not a phase.
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Old 11-20-2015, 02:58 PM
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Can he be the assistant during circle time? The helper for other times?
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Old 11-20-2015, 03:06 PM
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Can he be the assistant during circle time? The helper for other times?
we have tried that and it always turns south. no matter the approach everything gets turned upside down.

DCP did tell me at home the child has become very destructive and ruins a lot of stuff....
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Old 11-20-2015, 03:18 PM
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Can you just not do a circle time? And if you must, can you leave him out? Can you be with him while an assistant does circle? What does the circle entail?
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Old 11-20-2015, 03:30 PM
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we have tried that and it always turns south. no matter the approach everything gets turned upside down.

DCP did tell me at home the child has become very destructive and ruins a lot of stuff....
How are the parents handling it?

I always try to find a common approach with the parents and *usually* that works to cut out the behaviour.
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Old 11-20-2015, 04:46 PM
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How are the parents handling it?

I always try to find a common approach with the parents and *usually* that works to cut out the behaviour.
they talk it out and try time out but it don't work
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Old 11-20-2015, 05:45 PM
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Sounds to me like the parents need to find something that does work. If they can't control it at home, I don't know how you can be expected to in a daycare setting. I would have a meeting and let them know this has to stop, and they have to help you.
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Old 11-21-2015, 12:55 AM
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I would talk to the parents and say just what you have in your post. He is mean and annoys children (give examples) and it wouldn't be so bad but it happens every day and the other children and staff are tired of the constant daily interruptions. I would tell them that I've tried everything I know and am out of ideas. You could do a probation period as in "I am willing to try a few more things but if I don't see some improvement in 2 weeks then I'll have no choice but to not watch him anymore."
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Old 11-21-2015, 04:16 AM
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I would talk to the parents and say just what you have in your post. He is mean and annoys children (give examples) and it wouldn't be so bad but it happens every day and the other children and staff are tired of the constant daily interruptions. I would tell them that I've tried everything I know and am out of ideas. You could do a probation period as in "I am willing to try a few more things but if I don't see some improvement in 2 weeks then I'll have no choice but to not watch him anymore."
I agree with Thrifty and Laurel. If they can't get it to stop at home and you can't get it under control in care, you are at an impasse.

He might be better suited in a different environment.
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Old 11-21-2015, 05:59 AM
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I'm sorry you have to deal with that. At his age, he definitely should understand what you're telling him. Maybe during circle time he just has to sit by you the entire time. I'm sure you've probably already tried that. It would be wrong to discontinue circle time because of him. Why hurt all the other kids when he's the one being naughty. I have an 18 month old like that, but he's 18 months old, so I give him a bit more slack although I don't allow it. I still correct him. I hate to say it, I really do, but he may not stop until one of these kids knocks him on his keister when he's in their face. Sometimes that's the only language they know. Don't flame, I do not tolerate any wrong doing, but sometimes it happens before you can catch it.
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Old 11-21-2015, 07:34 AM
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Often, kids at this age are still learning appropriate social skills. I have one dcb(3) who came in with all of these behaviors plus hitting. He just didn't know how to establish and maintain positive interactions with other kids.

I use the tools on this site a lot
http://csefel.vanderbilt.edu/resources/strategies.html

With dcb, we used the stories: I can use my words and I can be a super friend. I changed the words a little because the super friend story is a little wordy for pre-k.

I also used the solution cue cards. I printed out a set and attached them to a square tissue box with contact paper. Every time he got into a conflict with a child, we grabbed the box and solved the problem together. Now he can solve problems on his own, without resorting to agression.

HTH
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Old 11-21-2015, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by spedmommy4 View Post
Often, kids at this age are still learning appropriate social skills. I have one dcb(3) who came in with all of these behaviors plus hitting. He just didn't know how to establish and maintain positive interactions with other kids.

I use the tools on this site a lot
http://csefel.vanderbilt.edu/resources/strategies.html

With dcb, we used the stories: I can use my words and I can be a super friend. I changed the words a little because the super friend story is a little wordy for pre-k.

I also used the solution cue cards. I printed out a set and attached them to a square tissue box with contact paper. Every time he got into a conflict with a child, we grabbed the box and solved the problem together. Now he can solve problems on his own, without resorting to agression.

HTH
I've taken cesefel training and use a lot of these tactics.
So yesterday at pick up I talked to mom and while I was talking to dcm the dcb was really acting out. Dcb older brother was there and dcb decided to dump this box of little people, about 20 of them. Without asking the older brother picks up one of the little people and dcb flips out and screams in his face.

Dcm responds only to the older brother and got mad at him for touching one of the little people. I looked at dcb and said I'm taking these away because we don't scream in anyone's face, you can use your words.

Of course dcb starts screaming and runs to dcm who then babies him.
I tell dcm I'm sorry but two wrongs don't make a right. He is old enough to use his words and it's not ok to yell in someone's face because they touched 1 of 20 toys or for any reason.

Dcm just keeps nagging at the older brother while she rocks and babies dcb.

I just keep repeating to dcb you need to use your words. Dcm got upset and left.

So now i know why dcb is the way he is.

I really feel that this will be an ongoing losing battle that will never get fixed.
I can't change how they parent and so far all of my Methods don't work. ��

Last edited by daycare; 11-21-2015 at 10:42 AM.
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Old 11-21-2015, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daycare View Post
I've taken cesefel training and use a lot of these tactics.
So yesterday at pick up I talked to mom and while I was talking to dcm the dcb was really acting out. Dcb older brother was there and dcb decided to dump this box of little people, about 20 of them. Without asking the older brother picks up one of the little people and dcb flips out and screams in his face.

Dcm responds only to the older brother and got mad at him for touching one of the little people. I looked at dcb and said I'm taking these away because we don't scream in anyone's face, you can use your words.

Of course dcb starts screaming and runs to dcm who then babies him.
I tell dcm I'm sorry but two wrongs don't make a right. He is old enough to use his words and it's not ok to yell in someone's face because they touched 1 of 20 toys or for any reason.

Dcm just keeps nagging at the older brother while she rocks and babies dcb.

I just keep repeating to dcb you need to use your words. Dcm got upset and left.

So now i know why dcb is the way he is.

I really feel that this will be an ongoing losing battle that will never get fixed.
I can't change how they parent and so far all of my Methods don't work. ��
Well now you have a perfect excuse for terming. "Mom I can see by what happened the other day that we are not on the same page with how to stop dcb's behavior. I simply cannot let this kind of thing go on everyday. It isn't fair to the other children and my staff."
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Old 11-21-2015, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daycare View Post
I've taken cesefel training and use a lot of these tactics.
So yesterday at pick up I talked to mom and while I was talking to dcm the dcb was really acting out. Dcb older brother was there and dcb decided to dump this box of little people, about 20 of them. Without asking the older brother picks up one of the little people and dcb flips out and screams in his face.

Dcm responds only to the older brother and got mad at him for touching one of the little people. I looked at dcb and said I'm taking these away because we don't scream in anyone's face, you can use your words.

Of course dcb starts screaming and runs to dcm who then babies him.
I tell dcm I'm sorry but two wrongs don't make a right. He is old enough to use his words and it's not ok to yell in someone's face because they touched 1 of 20 toys or for any reason.

Dcm just keeps nagging at the older brother while she rocks and babies dcb.

I just keep repeating to dcb you need to use your words. Dcm got upset and left.

So now i know why dcb is the way he is.

I really feel that this will be an ongoing losing battle that will never get fixed.
I can't change how they parent and so far all of my Methods don't work. ��
I had the full support of the parents for my dcb. I would have termed this boy if they had not been on board. They were using the csefel methods at home to.
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Old 11-21-2015, 01:18 PM
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Does saying 'use you words' actually do anything? I don't think it's helping anything. I mean you say to the boy, "you can use your words" and does he know what words to use? I think you need to say the words to him. Something like: "You didn't like brother taking that toy. Tell him, 'don't take my toy, bother. I'm using that'" Also I would tell brother, "You don't take what you want without asking, even if he has a lot. You can ask, 'Can I play with this' and if little brother says no, you can ask him if you can play with it when he's done". Instead of telling him what not to do (scream), you are trying to tell him what to do which is great but it isn't specific enough. Also, still wondering what circle time entails and if it can be dropped or if he can be allowed not to do it.
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Old 11-21-2015, 01:44 PM
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Does saying 'use you words' actually do anything? I don't think it's helping anything. I mean you say to the boy, "you can use your words" and does he know what words to use? I think you need to say the words to him. Something like: "You didn't like brother taking that toy. Tell him, 'don't take my toy, bother. I'm using that'" Also I would tell brother, "You don't take what you want without asking, even if he has a lot. You can ask, 'Can I play with this' and if little brother says no, you can ask him if you can play with it when he's done". Instead of telling him what not to do (scream), you are trying to tell him what to do which is great but it isn't specific enough. Also, still wondering what circle time entails and if it can be dropped or if he can be allowed not to do it.
All of that was said and demonstrated for them.
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Old 11-21-2015, 03:12 PM
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All of that was said and demonstrated for them.
How long? With my little guy, it took a good four or five weeks of all of us doing it day after day. (Here and and home) I know dcm was modeling at home; I don't think she was near as consistent as we are here.

I know it also helped for us to have him try the interaction again. (appropriately) The dcb here really needed to learn that it was possible to get another child's attention (or a toy) in a positive way.

It was exasperating though. I work with tough kids for a living and this little guy tired me out.
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Old 11-21-2015, 03:19 PM
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I think if DCM is letting him get by with it at home (which if she did it in front of you, we know she is), that you can't win in this situation. It is time to let this one go. IF mom was helping instead of making it worse, I might say give it some time.
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Old 11-21-2015, 03:19 PM
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I almost forgot, we used this too. When he got angry or aggressive, he could pull out his tool box. These are things that helped this little boy calm down.
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