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  #1  
Old 02-28-2010, 09:00 PM
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Angry Paying Full Tuition When the Daycare Closes for a Snow Day...Is This Fair?

We have been hit with a few snow storms in the northeast these past couple of weeks, my daycare closed for two days last week and two days this week. Now I understand safety of staff but a couple of the days roads were completely clear and they closed based on forecasts, they could have done late or early closings, and for all of these days my husband or I had to take off of work and I find it unfair that they still charge us full rates. I find it highly unlikely that they are paying their staff regardless of being there or not, they probably have to burn vacation or sick days. Are there any laws and regulations for this or is it up to the individual daycare?
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  #2  
Old 03-01-2010, 04:42 AM
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If it is in their policy, I would assume it is legal.
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Old 03-01-2010, 05:48 AM
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I say it's not fair, but like posted above, if it's in the policy they can do it.

I don't think it's right that if they are closing their doors that you should have to pay. Like you said they are more then likely not paying their staff.
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Old 03-01-2010, 08:16 AM
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I think this is really going to vary, but of course it isn't really illegal - you're going to want to take a look at your contract/handbook. Many will state that closures due to inclement weather will still require payment. Personally I would probably tackle this on a case by case basis since it could be a one day closure or a 4 day closure - I would probably handle payment differently for different circumstances, but I also don't close unless the weather is dangerous. I live in ND so we do have a lot of weather situations through the winter months, but like everyone has said - there is nothing necessarily illegal about it (even though it is unfair), you'll want to look at your contract/handbook
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Old 03-01-2010, 08:21 AM
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I find it highly unlikely that they are paying their staff regardless of being there or not, they probably have to burn vacation or sick days. Are there any laws and regulations for this or is it up to the individual daycare?
On the same note, however, are they not paying rent for the day even though they are closed? Utilities? Etc. I doubt that they get pro-rated based on the days that they are open for business. Also most places have sick/personal time that their employees can use for the days that they are unable to work and that still comes out of the Daycare's pocket.

If this bothers you (paying for days that you are not able to drop your child off) you can look for a daycare that is based on attendance and not on enrollment. Most Daycares and Daycare Homes fees are based on enrollment and not on attendance (pay for the week) but you can sometimes find some that don't. It is up to the Daycare to come up with what works for them. There is nothing illegal about this however they should have a contract that says this. If you have a contract with them read it and make sure that it's in there. If it isn't (ir in any of their policies) then you shouldn't have to pay. If it is you should always be clear about what you are signing up for.
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  #6  
Old 03-01-2010, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa View Post
On the same note, however, are they not paying rent for the day even though they are closed? Utilities? Etc. I doubt that they get pro-rated based on the days that they are open for business. Also most places have sick/personal time that their employees can use for the days that they are unable to work and that still comes out of the Daycare's pocket.
Most small daycares do not pay for personal days, just vacation days if that.

I worked at a daycare for 13 years. At first they could not offer vacation time. It was about 3 years while I was there before they offered vacation.
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Old 03-01-2010, 09:40 AM
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Most small daycares do not pay for personal days, just vacation days if that.

I worked at a daycare for 13 years. At first they could not offer vacation time. It was about 3 years while I was there before they offered vacation.
Wow that's too bad. For my assistant I reserve 5 sick/personal days and reserve 10 days of paid vacation days just in the case that I should need to close. If I get paid I don't see why she shouldn't.
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  #8  
Old 03-01-2010, 01:01 PM
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Did you READ your contract before you signed it???

I'm sorry but it drives me nuts when parent come on here asking questions that were surely addressed in their contract. Yet, somehow they are always shocked and surprised. If you didn't bother to read your contract then don't bother to complain about the terms of it!!!

AGH!!!
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Old 03-01-2010, 03:41 PM
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Did you READ your contract before you signed it???

I'm sorry but it drives me nuts when parent come on here asking questions that were surely addressed in their contract. Yet, somehow they are always shocked and surprised. If you didn't bother to read your contract then don't bother to complain about the terms of it!!!

AGH!!!
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  #10  
Old 03-02-2010, 03:12 PM
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Default paying for snow days

Yes I did read the contract/handbook, there was nothing in there regarding snow days just that they would close for six holidays for the year. So after the first week when they were closed for the two days, I brought it up to them and they said it is in the handbook I replied that it wasn't, they looked right then and there and said you're right. The next day they posted signs to pay a lesser amount but they were changing their policy and from now on the parents would be liable for full tuition. I understand they still have some costs whether they are there or not, however, it is minimal.
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Old 03-03-2010, 07:07 AM
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I understand they still have some costs whether they are there or not, however, it is minimal.
I try to stay out of arguments like this but it the costs the same if children are there or not. Yes, you save on food and very little electric but that is about it. If our costs really were minimal, would we charge so much for childcare? We don't do this to get rich, but because we love the children. I firmly believe you pay for what you get. Where I live, there are providers that charge $30-$50 less per wk just to get the children in, they don't charge for days off. But, unfortunately, the children are the ones paying for the difference.

We have these strict policies because it is what we need to minimuly get by in this field while balancing finances for our families and providing good quality care.
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  #12  
Old 03-03-2010, 10:22 AM
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I understand they still have some costs whether they are there or not, however, it is minimal.

when i close for the day i may save on not feeding the children, and may get a SMALL break on my utilites, but do not get a break for training costs, curriculum purchases, licensing fees, money back on my mortgage, or a refund on my liability insurance. all of these purchases directly affect the quality of care your child receives in daycare.

just wanted to add though, you are right. if the policy wasnt in the handbook, then you shouldnt have been charged for the days they closed. lesson learned for them.
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Old 03-03-2010, 05:41 PM
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You are paying for a spot in the daycare. Kinda like a spot at a marina for your boat. If you don't dock your boat one day because of the weather you still have to pay.

They should have put it in the handbook if that's how they work it. Bet they will make amendments now.
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  #14  
Old 03-04-2010, 09:32 AM
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Absolutely! If it wasn't in the contract you were right to bring it up and not pay for it. In the future, it is thier right to charge for those days as long as everyone is made aware of the policy.
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Old 01-26-2011, 08:27 PM
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Seriously, it baffles me that parents can be this silly. When your child goes to school (if private), you pay for the month. You don't ask for a prorated rate if your child is out for a week with the flu. The expenses of the school DO NOT CHANGE because your child isn't there. The only way a school OR daycare center (whether in a home or not) can operate is to have a minimum number of children they service/enroll and have them pay a specified number of days throughout the year. My staff gets paid for any days that we are closed that has nothing to do with them, as long as parents are paying in full. So, for the woman that worked in a center, be careful, you can only speak for yourself. Daycares are National and how staff is treated is going to vary. To hear someone say costs are "minimal" is almost like a slap in the face. Is your provider driving a Mercedes? Live in a mansion maybe? I bet not! LOL Seriously - only people that have NO IDEA about running a business and the work that goes into being a provider and the amount of money it actually costs get all bent out of shape! Only those that see us as "babysitters" instead of what we really are - preschool that are ALL DAY! Many months we're lucky to make $1,500 a month profit! I bet you make more than that! If your provider takes good care of your child (many for 9 and 10 and 11 hours a day!!) and your child is happy and healthy and learning...paying for a few snow days so that they can take the precaution of keeping everyone safe...well that's the least you can do. Otherwise, find a place that's open ALL the time - GOOD LUCK with that!
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Old 01-27-2011, 09:34 AM
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Seriously, it baffles me that parents can be this silly. When your child goes to school (if private), you pay for the month. You don't ask for a prorated rate if your child is out for a week with the flu. The expenses of the school DO NOT CHANGE because your child isn't there. The only way a school OR daycare center (whether in a home or not) can operate is to have a minimum number of children they service/enroll and have them pay a specified number of days throughout the year. My staff gets paid for any days that we are closed that has nothing to do with them, as long as parents are paying in full. So, for the woman that worked in a center, be careful, you can only speak for yourself. Daycares are National and how staff is treated is going to vary. To hear someone say costs are "minimal" is almost like a slap in the face. Is your provider driving a Mercedes? Live in a mansion maybe? I bet not! LOL Seriously - only people that have NO IDEA about running a business and the work that goes into being a provider and the amount of money it actually costs get all bent out of shape! Only those that see us as "babysitters" instead of what we really are - preschool that are ALL DAY! Many months we're lucky to make $1,500 a month profit! I bet you make more than that! If your provider takes good care of your child (many for 9 and 10 and 11 hours a day!!) and your child is happy and healthy and learning...paying for a few snow days so that they can take the precaution of keeping everyone safe...well that's the least you can do. Otherwise, find a place that's open ALL the time - GOOD LUCK with that!
AMEN!!! I agree with EVERY WORD. I wish I had written it.
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  #17  
Old 01-28-2011, 11:43 AM
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First I want to say that I know it's tough for parents to find last minute childcare on days that their providers close and I completely feel your pain. BUT, I think you are being a little unreasonable about this and should realize that you aren't the only person these closures effect.

I live in the northeast too and these are not little snow squalls, but huge storms. This month has seen the most snowfall totals ever recorded for the month of January... historic amounts.... one requiring a state of emergency to be issued. Maybe your commute was clear, but it doesn't mean that the other parents & daycare workers had it that easy. I work in a large preschool and this January, we closed once (blizzard conditions) and have had 4 delayed openings. Out of all those delayed openings, the public schools closed completely. We employees did not receive pay for any time we didn't work (but our dc parents were still obligated to pay per their contracts). I cannot use up "vacation days" because I don't get them w/pay. Vacation & sick days are days we don't earn money. That's pretty common around these parts and we accept this when we take the job.

Some of us have school age children at home. When the public schools close, we either have to stay home (and lose pay) or scramble to find child care ourselves. Because if our employer decides to stay open, we still have to hit those snowcovered roads, risk getting into wrecks and all to get to work to watch YOUR children. We do it if we can and most of us do it for minimum wages. So please don't take it so personally. It isn't just about your losses - these storms have effected everyone. And I will now take the time to give a shout out of thanks to the dc parents that I work for - I'm so grateful that not one of them complained when we closed for the day or had a few delayed openings. Not one.
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Old 01-28-2011, 12:19 PM
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I am a provider, and I get paid vacation, blah blah, But snow days, I don't know kind of stupid to me, If I were sending my child to daycare I would be mad if I had to pay for a day because it snowed, but I don't know I am in MN, where nothing closes when it snows, you just wake up earlier to make sure you get to work, If they are going to charge for days when they close due to snow, I think it should be in the policies very clearly, and then I personally would look elsewhere. We in MN have been hit with record snowfalls this January, And I think there was only one day and that was the really bad blizzard day with 17 inches of snow, that things closed down and it was a saturday, otherwise nothing closes around here.
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Old 01-28-2011, 12:23 PM
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First I want to say that I know it's tough for parents to find last minute childcare on days that their providers close and I completely feel your pain. BUT, I think you are being a little unreasonable about this and should realize that you aren't the only person these closures effect.

I live in the northeast too and these are not little snow squalls, but huge storms. This month has seen the most snowfall totals ever recorded for the month of January... historic amounts.... one requiring a state of emergency to be issued. Maybe your commute was clear, but it doesn't mean that the other parents & daycare workers had it that easy. I work in a large preschool and this January, we closed once (blizzard conditions) and have had 4 delayed openings. Out of all those delayed openings, the public schools closed completely. We employees did not receive pay for any time we didn't work (but our dc parents were still obligated to pay per their contracts). I cannot use up "vacation days" because I don't get them w/pay. Vacation & sick days are days we don't earn money. That's pretty common around these parts and we accept this when we take the job.

Some of us have school age children at home. When the public schools close, we either have to stay home (and lose pay) or scramble to find child care ourselves. Because if our employer decides to stay open, we still have to hit those snowcovered roads, risk getting into wrecks and all to get to work to watch YOUR children. We do it if we can and most of us do it for minimum wages. So please don't take it so personally. It isn't just about your losses - these storms have effected everyone. And I will now take the time to give a shout out of thanks to the dc parents that I work for - I'm so grateful that not one of them complained when we closed for the day or had a few delayed openings. Not one.
Makes sense.................But you don't really know if any complained.
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Old 01-31-2011, 04:20 PM
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Default Snow Days

I work at a day care and us as a staff do not get paid if we close. I see your point and I don't blame you at all for being upset.
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Old 02-04-2011, 05:25 AM
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As a parent I think it's bull. If I can get my child to the daycare then the daycare should provide the care. The other day my wife was dropping our kid off and the normal opening person was leaving saying they was not going to be open due to the weather. The employee made it there just fine as did my wife, but left us in a bind.

I shouldn't be forced to keep a backup plan that I can use at the drop of a hat because those plans are rarely possible. At the very least if you must charge then snow days should be only 25% of a normal day. Would it kill anyone to be a honest person and not try to screw a hard working person over? Because not only are you forcing them to pay for a service you're not providing but you are making them bend over backwards to find another provider or not go into work themselves.

If I can't make it then charge me for that day, no issues at all from me. But when I can make it and you won't then yes we have issues and I will be seeking out a different provider.
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Old 02-04-2011, 09:23 AM
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As a parent I think it's bull. If I can get my child to the daycare then the daycare should provide the care. The other day my wife was dropping our kid off and the normal opening person was leaving saying they was not going to be open due to the weather. The employee made it there just fine as did my wife, but left us in a bind.

I shouldn't be forced to keep a backup plan that I can use at the drop of a hat because those plans are rarely possible. At the very least if you must charge then snow days should be only 25% of a normal day. Would it kill anyone to be a honest person and not try to screw a hard working person over? Because not only are you forcing them to pay for a service you're not providing but you are making them bend over backwards to find another provider or not go into work themselves.

If I can't make it then charge me for that day, no issues at all from me. But when I can make it and you won't then yes we have issues and I will be seeking out a different provider.

LOL...can I assume that you have a CONTRACT which states when they will close and what you will be required to pay!!

Would it kill a person to READ the contract and follow the guidelines instead of trying to screw a hardworking provider over????

Take your business elsewhere if you don't like it, the provider will likely not care. When we create our policies we realize that not everyone will want to follow them and will select another provider. It's just a part of doing business.

L
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Old 02-04-2011, 02:32 PM
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The other day my wife was dropping our kid off and the normal opening person was leaving saying they was not going to be open due to the weather. The employee made it there just fine as did my wife, but left us in a bind.
It isn't about you and what you can or can't do. It's about properly staffing the facility so that the regulations are met.

Child care providers have many times when they receive kids early and keep them late because of inclement weather. Most often they do not charge parents for these overages because they understand that things happen and the weather can't be controlled.

They eat the cost of the extra staffing so when the snow days come they have a chance to recoop some of these costs with parents paying for the days when the weather doesn't allow them to staff their facility adequately.

It has to do with the law of averages... not about you... your wife... your kid ... that one day.

Welcome to being a part of a group. They could just charge you an extra fee daily and then not charge for the snow days they are closed. In the end you will pay the same yearly fee.
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Old 02-07-2011, 10:41 AM
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My contract states that the center will be closed whenever the schools are closed for the day, but will stay open regular hours for the early release or delayed days. So I knew that up front and am ok with that policy. I realize that they still have expenses such as utilities, but I wonder myself if they are paying their staff for the day or if the staff have to use vacation time.

I think the original poster has a valid argument if this issue wasn't spelled out in the contract and if all the staff weren't paid for the day. Not paying staff for the day significantly reduces expenses so I don't think parents should have had to pay nothing for the day, but a reduced rate for snow days where staff aren't paid when closed could be reasonable to cover utilities, etc. Otherwise, if staff are paid for the day, whether it be through vacation day or work covers inclement weather closings like mine does, then parents should be expected to pay in full. Regardless though, your daycare should have had this spelled out up front in your contract and it's a shame if they didn't. If they didn't have that spelled out in your contract, I think you should call your state to find out if you have a valid argument with that daycare.

If you are looking for other care, don't be surprised if all centers charge for all snow and sick days, while home based care varies widely.

Last edited by Michael; 02-07-2011 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 02-07-2011, 12:51 PM
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Exclamation Paying for day care on a snow day

Of course it's fair. The center must pay its' employees, just as the Federal Government must pay its' employees when shut down due to snow. It must also continue to pay the mortgage, heat, lights, and insurance. Much more goes into to the tuition costs than I just mentioned: licensing fees, supplies, toys, required training courses, taxes.

None of this goes away when a center or family day care business closes. Most legitimate Family or Center based businesses do not close indiscriminately. Much angst goes into the decision. Any small business owner knows that if the customer is not well-served, he will go elsewhere. Some of the closing decisions may be made by the insurer of the business (the insurance companies seem to be making more and more decisions for us--but that's another post!). If the day care remains open, it has to be plowed before children can be accepted. Perhaps the center cannot afford, or hasn't rolled those costs into the tuition(could be well over $1000 depending on size and location). If one child or parent slips and falls and breaks a bone, the center could be sued.

Most childcare businesses run on a shoestring profit. Many are not-for-profits (like churches) and just pay the bills. I can only speak for small family childcare, but in those places, the provider "takes home" half to 1/3 of what you actually pay. . . And is then taxed again with the "self employment tax". I know it's annoying, but please try to look at things from the other side of the fence. Would YOU be willing to exchange your position to do what they are doing? If so, what would you do when none of your employees were willing to risk life & limb to get to a $10 an hour job? If you opened without the requisite number of employees, you would be "out of compliance" and (if anyone found out, or anything bad happened) your business could be closed down or (once again) sued.

Last edited by Michael; 02-07-2011 at 01:44 PM.
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  #26  
Old 02-07-2011, 02:00 PM
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lol I agree 100%.. i read on here that someone once wrote in their PHB half way through it " if you read this message tell the secret password is discount"

I know for a fact that more than half of my DCP don't read my PHB. their problem, not mine....
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  #27  
Old 02-08-2011, 11:49 AM
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Default For anyone who thinks it's unfair...

Consider this. If a daycare provider has 6 kids who are scheduled to attend that day, but all but one of those children decide not to come because of the weather, then where is the motivation for the provider to stay open?

For daycare centers, it's even more illogical to stay open on a day when a good majority of the other kids are not attending. The center would need to be staffed with at least 2 people (at least at the ones that I've worked for). It just doesn't make sense financially.

For one of the really bad snowdays, I had 5 kids not come due to the weather and only 1 that did come. The saddest part was that the dad had the day off but sent her anyway. Sure, I was going to be home anyway, but I would have liked to have had the time to spend with my own child. I've learned a lesson from it, though, and in the future, I will be closing on snow days where 4 or more kids won't be attending.

I don't charge for days that I don't provide care, but that's just the way that I've always done things, but I think that the providers and centers that charge a flat rate are absolutely justified in charging it. As a parent, you are paying for the spot and it may seem unfair, but ask yourself how you would feel if your employer decided to stop paying you for your vacation time and sick time. It would really suck and it would seem unfair to you. If you signed a contract and agreed to paying the flat rate, then you need to just suck it up and pay it. If it bothers you so much, by all means, find a daycare that has financial terms that you can live with. If it's just a matter of not wanting to pay for one day of care and you've been happy otherwise, let it go! I would much rather pay the provider that I'm happy with the tuition for a snow day as opposed to searching for another daycare that won't charge for the day. I'd rather be satisfied with the quality of care.

OP, if the only issue with your daycare is the snow day policy and you are otherwise happy with what your child is getting, then let it go!
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Old 02-17-2011, 05:44 PM
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So you're saying that people who run daycare facilities are in the slim minority of workers in the U.S.? Every job I have ever had would not have paid me for not showing up to work or simply choosing not to open the shop for the day. You compare paying rent and utilities, but when I can't go to work because the daycare doesn't open, who is going to pay my rent or utilities? Sounds like quite a racket to me. One missed day of work costs me more money than the entire week of tuition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa View Post
On the same note, however, are they not paying rent for the day even though they are closed? Utilities? Etc. I doubt that they get pro-rated based on the days that they are open for business. Also most places have sick/personal time that their employees can use for the days that they are unable to work and that still comes out of the Daycare's pocket.

If this bothers you (paying for days that you are not able to drop your child off) you can look for a daycare that is based on attendance and not on enrollment. Most Daycares and Daycare Homes fees are based on enrollment and not on attendance (pay for the week) but you can sometimes find some that don't. It is up to the Daycare to come up with what works for them. There is nothing illegal about this however they should have a contract that says this. If you have a contract with them read it and make sure that it's in there. If it isn't (ir in any of their policies) then you shouldn't have to pay. If it is you should always be clear about what you are signing up for.
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  #29  
Old 02-18-2011, 07:46 AM
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Seriously badphish? You make that much money? Or the daycare charges that little? HAHAHAHA

Maybe the person who buys the food for the day is stuck in a snowbank? So even though there is someone at the daycare center, and you show up with your child, what is your kid going to eat all day?

What if the storm is expected to get worse? And your child will be stuck there overnight?

What if the power goes out for half of the day, and your child will sit there freezing?

There are so many what if's in these threads.

Daycares don't just close down because they can (because it's in their contract). They close down for the safety of everyone.

I have, after reading a lot of these threads on this website, I have changed my rates from $25/day to a monthly fee, and also state it can be made in biweekly or weekly payments if it's better for you. Fact is, they could charge you $30/day and not charge you for closures, sick days or whatever else. That's an extra $25/week, and $100/month out of your pocket. So what do you prefer?

You know what I make on average an hour? $2.50/ child! ( I only have 1 child right now in my care too) What's minimum wage? $10 dollars? HMMMM......This isn't factoring the bills and such yet. I understand that yes, when you factor in additional children that will be more per hour that I will be paid, but it will still be 2.50/child!

$2.50. Is that what you think makes us thieves? Whether you want to admit it or not, everyone is calling providers crooks because they have to pay for sick/snow/vacation days. Now factor out the food, and the utilities, craft supplies, field trips, etc.

Maybe if you look at what you are actually pay per hour for someone to take care of, love, nurture and provide for your child, people will stop complaining so much!
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Old 02-18-2011, 07:57 AM
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You know what I make on average an hour? $2.50/ child! ( I only have 1 child right now in my care too) What's minimum wage? $10 dollars? HMMMM......This isn't factoring the bills and such yet. I understand that yes, when you factor in additional children that will be more per hour that I will be paid, but it will still be 2.50/child!

$2.50. Is that what you think makes us thieves? Whether you want to admit it or not, everyone is calling providers crooks because they have to pay for sick/snow/vacation days. Now factor out the food, and the utilities, craft supplies, field trips, etc.

Maybe if you look at what you are actually pay per hour for someone to take care of, love, nurture and provide for your child, people will stop complaining so much!
I stay out of debates as a general rule but this point is a good one. This is something providers face every day. The parents see the chunk of money leaving their bank accounts, we see it as 1/4 of min. wage which we are expected to live off AND provide the best care possible for each life we are asked to nurture and protect. I think a snow day here or there is petty and an excuse to discount providers even more than we already are.
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:49 PM
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Default Charging parents for snow days is UNFAIR

This is an old post, but I'm dealing with it right now (which is why I googled it!). Let me give another perspective.

I use a Primrose (national franchise) daycare center, and frankly, I think it's completely unfair to make me pay the full tuition for a snow day. My case may be a little more understandable, because my daycare is expensive. My child's not in one of those shoe-string budget centers that would be looking at me thinking, "Listen lady, we barely charge you what we should as it is!!"

I understand having to pay if my child is sick and doesn't show up--I totally get that. Or, for example, if I want to cancel on my cleaning lady, I better give her enough notice so that she can try to fill the spot--otherwise, she's held time for me and can't make up that money. I totally get those things.

But if I buy a steak sandwich from the Corner Deli every day at lunch, and the Corner Deli one day decides to close for weather...guess what? They don't make me pay for the sandwich anyway! Why? Because THEY decided to close.

(And God, please don't respond with "But you didn't have a CONTRACT with the corner deli!!" I'm not even going to respond to those responses because they're not relevant to the point I'm making. This isn't about what's legal or what I agreed to, etc. This is about whether or not it's FAIR. This is about the morality of it. The ethics of it. The customer-service aspect of it. The "are you being a fair business owner" aspect of it.)

And yes of course I read my contract--I'm a lawyer. And all you out there shouting "didn't you READ the contract???" at these people, I think you're missing the point. I read it. And, yes, when I read it I thought it was unfair, and, yes, I chose to use the center anyway. My point is not that I'm complaining after the fact...my point is that it feels very UNFAIR and it really BOTHERS ME and makes me angry at my daycare--much like that dad that posted above who felt screwed. Not because he didn't know it was a possibility, but because it feels crappy and he (and I) are frankly just complaining.

The way I look at it is this: I am paying $50 a day for a service. If I'm willing to show up with my child for my daycare to perform the service, then my daycare should do one of two things: 1) perform the service for the $50, or 2) not perform the service but not take my $50.

Doesn't that sound reasonable? The reality is that SO OFTEN when the daycare is closed, SOMEHOW most of us other workers STILL HAVE TO GO TO WORK. So not only am I out the $50 I had to pay for services my daycare REFUSED to render that day (yeah, yeah, I know...for safety...but the rest of us are out there, so our bosses deemed it safe for us to go to work somehow...), but now I have to pay money on top of that to find different care for my child! (Care I already paid someone for, mind you!) And I REALLY feel bad for the people who simply don't get paid if they don't go to work, because sometimes those people are doubly screwed--they have to pay the $50 plus they have to miss out on their paycheck that day because they couldn't find care for their kids...ummm, care they ALREADY PAID SOMEONE FOR. (okay, I'll give the dead horse a break)

Think of it this way: Imagine you work in the city and you pay a parking lot $25 a day to park there, but SOMETIMES when you show up with your car they turn you away, but debit your checking account for the $25 anyway. Seriously. Imagine that. Most people would be outraged. Regardless of whether or not this was in the contract, how screwed would you feel once this had happened two times...three times.... ?

And please, can we just skip the responses about how my kid's not a car and the daycare providers aren't parking attendants and how dare I and devaluing and all that--This post is irrelevant to how wonderful the pseudo-moms are at my daycare, who are helping me parent my child. This argument is about the money end of things.

The daycare is a BUSINESS. And the point is simple. The daycare is providing a service, I'm paying for it, they refuse to provide it sometimes, yet I can't in turn refuse to pay for it. UNFAIR. Legal, yes. Unfair, yes.

Let's make this daycare a co-op. NOW I get it. This co-op only makes enough money to keep itself in operation and because of that, we all benefit (from low costs). Fine--in that case, I'm not complaining--we need to keep the center open, regardless of weather! But a for-profit center is different.

I read all these things about "but we (daycare owners) still have to pay the rent! we still have to pay operating costs!". So? How is that persuasive?? Guess what? If I stopped coming to work and my boss started refusing to pay me, do you think it's a valid argument for me to say, "But I still have to pay my mortgage and my insurance and buy food!!" Hell no! He'd say, "You don't provide the services, you don't get paid." Why is this universally-accepted concept so screwy when it comes to daycare?

To me it's no different than, say, a retail business. If they decide to close for weather they don't make sales that day. Or cut hair that day. Or sell gas that day. In other words, they LOSE MONEY if they choose to close for weather...so therefore most of them rarely close! But somehow when daycares close for weather they still get paid for the services they didn't render. I can't see in what world that's fair!

(And that doesn't even touch on incentive. If I got paid for not coming to work, and I got to DECIDE when I wasn't showing up, any time, any day, guess what my incentive is?)

Look, at the very least, charge me some MINIMAL amount. Some amount that doesn't include the cost of feeding the kids or profit or supplies that day. Even that would make me feel slightly less screwed.

Clearly....I'm tired of snow days.
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Old 02-11-2014, 02:28 PM
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Pushing this back up..
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Old 02-11-2014, 02:33 PM
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Everyone thinks their daycare is expensive.

Nobody likes being told no.

Everyone thinks their situation is somehow special or the exception.

***Don't enroll your child if you disagree with the contract. ***

****Life is not fair.****
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Old 02-11-2014, 03:02 PM
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This is an old post, but I'm dealing with it right now (which is why I googled it!). Let me give another perspective.

I use a Primrose (national franchise) daycare center, and frankly, I think it's completely unfair to make me pay the full tuition for a snow day. My case may be a little more understandable, because my daycare is expensive. My child's not in one of those shoe-string budget centers that would be looking at me thinking, "Listen lady, we barely charge you what we should as it is!!"

I understand having to pay if my child is sick and doesn't show up--I totally get that. Or, for example, if I want to cancel on my cleaning lady, I better give her enough notice so that she can try to fill the spot--otherwise, she's held time for me and can't make up that money. I totally get those things.

But if I buy a steak sandwich from the Corner Deli every day at lunch, and the Corner Deli one day decides to close for weather...guess what? They don't make me pay for the sandwich anyway! Why? Because THEY decided to close.

(And God, please don't respond with "But you didn't have a CONTRACT with the corner deli!!" I'm not even going to respond to those responses because they're not relevant to the point I'm making. This isn't about what's legal or what I agreed to, etc. This is about whether or not it's FAIR. This is about the morality of it. The ethics of it. The customer-service aspect of it. The "are you being a fair business owner" aspect of it.)

And yes of course I read my contract--I'm a lawyer. And all you out there shouting "didn't you READ the contract???" at these people, I think you're missing the point. I read it. And, yes, when I read it I thought it was unfair, and, yes, I chose to use the center anyway. My point is not that I'm complaining after the fact...my point is that it feels very UNFAIR and it really BOTHERS ME and makes me angry at my daycare--much like that dad that posted above who felt screwed. Not because he didn't know it was a possibility, but because it feels crappy and he (and I) are frankly just complaining.

The way I look at it is this: I am paying $50 a day for a service. If I'm willing to show up with my child for my daycare to perform the service, then my daycare should do one of two things: 1) perform the service for the $50, or 2) not perform the service but not take my $50.

Doesn't that sound reasonable? The reality is that SO OFTEN when the daycare is closed, SOMEHOW most of us other workers STILL HAVE TO GO TO WORK. So not only am I out the $50 I had to pay for services my daycare REFUSED to render that day (yeah, yeah, I know...for safety...but the rest of us are out there, so our bosses deemed it safe for us to go to work somehow...), but now I have to pay money on top of that to find different care for my child! (Care I already paid someone for, mind you!) And I REALLY feel bad for the people who simply don't get paid if they don't go to work, because sometimes those people are doubly screwed--they have to pay the $50 plus they have to miss out on their paycheck that day because they couldn't find care for their kids...ummm, care they ALREADY PAID SOMEONE FOR. (okay, I'll give the dead horse a break)

Think of it this way: Imagine you work in the city and you pay a parking lot $25 a day to park there, but SOMETIMES when you show up with your car they turn you away, but debit your checking account for the $25 anyway. Seriously. Imagine that. Most people would be outraged. Regardless of whether or not this was in the contract, how screwed would you feel once this had happened two times...three times.... ?

And please, can we just skip the responses about how my kid's not a car and the daycare providers aren't parking attendants and how dare I and devaluing and all that--This post is irrelevant to how wonderful the pseudo-moms are at my daycare, who are helping me parent my child. This argument is about the money end of things.

The daycare is a BUSINESS. And the point is simple. The daycare is providing a service, I'm paying for it, they refuse to provide it sometimes, yet I can't in turn refuse to pay for it. UNFAIR. Legal, yes. Unfair, yes.

Let's make this daycare a co-op. NOW I get it. This co-op only makes enough money to keep itself in operation and because of that, we all benefit (from low costs). Fine--in that case, I'm not complaining--we need to keep the center open, regardless of weather! But a for-profit center is different.

I read all these things about "but we (daycare owners) still have to pay the rent! we still have to pay operating costs!". So? How is that persuasive?? Guess what? If I stopped coming to work and my boss started refusing to pay me, do you think it's a valid argument for me to say, "But I still have to pay my mortgage and my insurance and buy food!!" Hell no! He'd say, "You don't provide the services, you don't get paid." Why is this universally-accepted concept so screwy when it comes to daycare?

To me it's no different than, say, a retail business. If they decide to close for weather they don't make sales that day. Or cut hair that day. Or sell gas that day. In other words, they LOSE MONEY if they choose to close for weather...so therefore most of them rarely close! But somehow when daycares close for weather they still get paid for the services they didn't render. I can't see in what world that's fair!

(And that doesn't even touch on incentive. If I got paid for not coming to work, and I got to DECIDE when I wasn't showing up, any time, any day, guess what my incentive is?)

Look, at the very least, charge me some MINIMAL amount. Some amount that doesn't include the cost of feeding the kids or profit or supplies that day. Even that would make me feel slightly less screwed.

Clearly....I'm tired of snow days.
As a business owner, I have made the decision to include in my contract that I DO charge for snow days as well as days when my utilities are lost (due to weather, water main break, gas leak, etc.). I charge for these days because they are VERY minimal... and I do NOT charge for any other days I'm closed (holidays, my vacations, personal days, sick days, etc.). I don't charge for those days in order to keep costs down for my clients, but I do charge for snow days in order to help "off-set" the loss of income from the other closures. It was a business decision. Plain and simple. Many, if not most, providers charge a flat rate for 52 weeks per year regardless of whether they are closed or not.

Now, if I found out that I had a client as outraged over my policy as you are I would have to take a second look at our business relationship and determine whether or not it was worth it to keep them as a client. If any of my policies cause a client to become that angry then they probably aren't the best fit for me. That's another business decision. Plain and simple.

It looks like you need to either fine a different daycare or spend the loads of cold hard cash you splurge on your child's non-shoestring-budget daycare and get yourself a nanny. A nanny that won't require you to pay them whenever you're "closed".

Also, this post is just another reminder for me that the more parents pay the more they feel entitled. Never mind the awesome providers caring for their child or the awesome quality of the daycare... that doesn't matter. Money speaks loudly to many parents more than any of that.
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Old 02-11-2014, 03:03 PM
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Maybe instead of being a lawyer, you should open a not for profit daycare that is open 24-7-365 regardless of weather, holidays, etc.

Maybe finding a home daycare would be better. Most stay open (unless a state of emergency) since they don't have to go out in it. Also, they are usually cheaper than a center. Win-win
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Old 02-11-2014, 04:44 PM
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Craftymissbeth:
I can appreciate your answer that "it's a business decision", because you're not trying to say it's fair or not, you're simply saying "this is how I've chosen to run my business and keep its doors open". And that's fine. As so many have pointed out, the business makes policies and the customer can decide to live with them or go elsewhere. What I'm reacting to in my post, though, is the assertion by so many that this practice is FAIR.

I'm a little put off by your statements on money though. Frankly, I think it's human nature to dislike parting with almost any amount of money and getting nothing in return. If a homeless man put a dollar into a soda machine and got nothing in return, he'd feel screwed. No different than I feel screwed. Whether I pay a lot or a little, I'm not sure why the concept that I should actually receive services I pay for somehow earns me the ugly title of "entitled".

We all work hard for our money. I think we can at least all agree on that.

And the quality of the care is irrelevant to the discussion about the fairness of this common policy, so I'll skip that in order to stay on topic.

Interestingly, the reason I DON'T use a nanny or a home center is because (this should not surprise you) I want consistently available care. I don't want to be stuck in a situation where my one and only provider is sick or her car won't start, etc. I understand those things happen, but I'm trying to minimize my chances of being affected by them by going to a daycare center instead.
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Old 02-11-2014, 05:24 PM
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Craftymissbeth:
I can appreciate your answer that "it's a business decision", because you're not trying to say it's fair or not, you're simply saying "this is how I've chosen to run my business and keep its doors open". And that's fine. As so many have pointed out, the business makes policies and the customer can decide to live with them or go elsewhere. What I'm reacting to in my post, though, is the assertion by so many that this practice is FAIR.

I'm a little put off by your statements on money though. Frankly, I think it's human nature to dislike parting with almost any amount of money and getting nothing in return. If a homeless man put a dollar into a soda machine and got nothing in return, he'd feel screwed. No different than I feel screwed. Whether I pay a lot or a little, I'm not sure why the concept that I should actually receive services I pay for somehow earns me the ugly title of "entitled".

We all work hard for our money. I think we can at least all agree on that.

And the quality of the care is irrelevant to the discussion about the fairness of this common policy, so I'll skip that in order to stay on topic.

Interestingly, the reason I DON'T use a nanny or a home center is because (this should not surprise you) I want consistently available care. I don't want to be stuck in a situation where my one and only provider is sick or her car won't start, etc. I understand those things happen, but I'm trying to minimize my chances of being affected by them by going to a daycare center instead.
I understand and even agree with most (not all) of what you are saying and honestly, my only answer is the same answer I tell my daycare children.

Life isn't fair.

The sooner you accept that and figure out how to make your life as happy as you want or need it to be, it is what it is. There are VERY few things in life that are truly fair.

Charging for snow days is NOT fair.

But I do it anyways.

Not just because I can but because I can and because it is how I personally choose to run my business.

If it doesn't work for a specific family, then they don't sign on with me.

Other than finding care that doesn't charge for snow days you really only have one other option.....live somewhere where it doesn't snow.
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Old 02-11-2014, 05:47 PM
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It’s fair. As a business owner I still have costs whether the children enrolled come or not. I’ve stated it up front in my contract & policies. I haven’t misled or hoodwinked the parents.
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Old 02-11-2014, 05:47 PM
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This isn't about what's legal or what I agreed to, etc. This is about whether or not it's FAIR. This is about the morality of it. The ethics of it. The customer-service aspect of it. The "are you being a fair business owner" aspect of it.
Okay great, you're a lawyer so I'm assuming that you've been in a court room. If you have then you'd know that the funny thing about our judicial system (and frankly, pretty sad) is that it doesn't actually promise justice (fairness), it only promises us due process. So yes, it does have everything to do with legality. The cigarette companies sell their product knowing full well that they're unhealthy. My grandfather dies last Saturday from lung cancer from having smoked for over 30 years but I'm not complaining to the tobacco companies. He chose to smoke. IMO selling a dangerous product is immoral but it's still legal. Not all daycares charge for days such as snow days, you (general you) just have to find child care that is the better fit for you.
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Old 02-11-2014, 06:24 PM
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Craftymissbeth:
I can appreciate your answer that "it's a business decision", because you're not trying to say it's fair or not, you're simply saying "this is how I've chosen to run my business and keep its doors open". And that's fine. As so many have pointed out, the business makes policies and the customer can decide to live with them or go elsewhere. What I'm reacting to in my post, though, is the assertion by so many that this practice is FAIR.

I'm a little put off by your statements on money though. Frankly, I think it's human nature to dislike parting with almost any amount of money and getting nothing in return. If a homeless man put a dollar into a soda machine and got nothing in return, he'd feel screwed. No different than I feel screwed. Whether I pay a lot or a little, I'm not sure why the concept that I should actually receive services I pay for somehow earns me the ugly title of "entitled".

We all work hard for our money. I think we can at least all agree on that.

And the quality of the care is irrelevant to the discussion about the fairness of this common policy, so I'll skip that in order to stay on topic.

Interestingly, the reason I DON'T use a nanny or a home center is because (this should not surprise you) I want consistently available care. I don't want to be stuck in a situation where my one and only provider is sick or her car won't start, etc. I understand those things happen, but I'm trying to minimize my chances of being affected by them by going to a daycare center instead.
I'll be the first to admit I reacted harshly and brought up things that don't add to the topic. Sorry for that

You make a good point, though. It isn't fair. Here's a little story just to show that I completely understand what you're saying: my family and I moved to our current home from a different city 2 years ago. I called to have the water turned off at our old home, but they never shut it off. The new tenants racked up over $400 in water and the bill was still in our name (why it wasn't shut off after being late the first month I still don't understand). The water company was adamant that we owed that money. We just got it all sorted out today, but it makes me understand your point a little better.

Why pay for a service that are not using?

Perhaps looking at your tuition differently will help you see it from a business perspective. Many centers and home daycares come up with their rates differently than you may think.

Let's say that there are 260 work days in a year (because Google told me so). The daycare will be closed 10 holidays per year as well as one full week during winter break. That means they will be open 245 days in the year. They are going to go ahead and figure in 5 unexpected closures for the year (weather related, loss of utilities, illness, etc.) so now they are at 240 days open for the year.

They charge $25 per day per child. Multiplied by the amount of days they estimate they will be open = $6000. To make payments easier for parents they divide this amount into 52 equal payments = rounded to $115 per week.

Assuming that clients are long-term (which is ideal) this means that the clients actually ARE only paying for days the daycare is open. They are not paying for days the daycare is closed. In fact, it's likely that they are getting free days in the end... if the daycare doesn't actually close for all 5 of those additional days they figured in. It sure feels like you're paying for every day, but it's likely you're not. In the scenario above if they charged for all 260 work days regardless of closed days the weekly rate would be $125.

I hope that makes sense
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Old 02-11-2014, 07:45 PM
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Kidgrind:

This is nothing about being sneaky--I appreciate that it's in your contracts and your parents know up front, and no one should be surprised...but that doesn't make it fair.

What if your contract said, "Sometimes, when I've personally overspent my bank account that month, I'll charge all you parents extra to make sure I have personal spending money. That way I can still go out to dinner every Saturday."

Is it in your contract? Yes. Do the parents get to decide up front if they will ACTUALLY pony up when it happens. Yes.

.....but does that make it FAIR? Nooooo.

And, oh wait...before I address the other part of your post, Kidgrind, can you please clarify something for me? You said this: "Itís fair. As a business owner I still have costs whether the children enrolled come or not."

Are you really saying that even when YOU PERSONALLY decide that you WILL NOT care for the children that day, you still think it's fair to charge the parents because you have to cover the costs of running your business? I can't imagine you mean it this way...

Or do you mean that if a parent CHOOSES not to come that day, they still have to pay? (I agree with this charge. You're right-on to charge for this.)

MV, I'm really sorry to hear about your Grandpa, and I think we're on the same side of this discussion. Is it legal? Sure. Is it common? Sure. But does it TOTALLY SUCK AND DESERVE SOME IMPASSIONED PLEAS FOR THE INSANITY TO STOP? Absolutely.

(Clearly my snow day complaint isn't even in the same world of seriousness as what's upsetting you. So sorry to hear you're dealing with that.)

And for those of you telling your four year olds (and me) that "life's not fair", I hope in reality that you are *sometimes* adding at the end of that phrase, "and maybe it's time someone spoke up and started a dialog to try to convince people to start doing the right thing".
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:01 PM
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Craftymissbeth....THAT is very interesting. Maybe that sorta actually helps me to understand it. I guess that's *if* my daycare used that formula to figure out their pricing, but if I choose to believe they did, then I can not feel so screwed anymore!

Sorry to hear about your water issue...OMG that kinda stuff STINKS because how many HOURS of your time did you spend just dealing with that?? You're lucky you got it sorted out.

And, hey, all you business owners out there, consider this:

This daycare I'm complaining about has another policy: Once per year you are allowed to take your child on vacation and NOT pay for that week at all.

I was so surprised to hear this. The daycare is expecting my child and they've held a spot in their school for my child and I've decided not to have my child attend. I actually EXPECT to have to pay in this scenario and they tell me I don't have to!

Honestly, I wish they'd scrap that policy entirely and instead just not charge me for snow days. Because on one hand I feel like I'm getting a benefit I don't even deserve, but on the other hand I feel like I'm getting screwed. Switch the two policies and I'm happy.

Besides, their vacation policy "punishes" families with less money and less ability to take vacation! If I'm in one of those families who don't get paid if I don't work (i.e. no paid vacation), then I might only go away on weekends and never take a week vacation. In that case I never get the BENEFIT of this policy, yet those families will also bear the worst burden on snow days. ('cause if they can't go to work, they don't get paid.)
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:19 PM
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This is an old post, but I'm dealing with it right now (which is why I googled it!). Let me give another perspective.

I use a Primrose (national franchise) daycare center, and frankly, I think it's completely unfair to make me pay the full tuition for a snow day. My case may be a little more understandable, because my daycare is expensive. My child's not in one of those shoe-string budget centers that would be looking at me thinking, "Listen lady, we barely charge you what we should as it is!!"

I understand having to pay if my child is sick and doesn't show up--I totally get that. Or, for example, if I want to cancel on my cleaning lady, I better give her enough notice so that she can try to fill the spot--otherwise, she's held time for me and can't make up that money. I totally get those things.

But if I buy a steak sandwich from the Corner Deli every day at lunch, and the Corner Deli one day decides to close for weather...guess what? They don't make me pay for the sandwich anyway! Why? Because THEY decided to close.

(And God, please don't respond with "But you didn't have a CONTRACT with the corner deli!!" I'm not even going to respond to those responses because they're not relevant to the point I'm making. This isn't about what's legal or what I agreed to, etc. This is about whether or not it's FAIR. This is about the morality of it. The ethics of it. The customer-service aspect of it. The "are you being a fair business owner" aspect of it.)

And yes of course I read my contract--I'm a lawyer. And all you out there shouting "didn't you READ the contract???" at these people, I think you're missing the point. I read it. And, yes, when I read it I thought it was unfair, and, yes, I chose to use the center anyway. My point is not that I'm complaining after the fact...my point is that it feels very UNFAIR and it really BOTHERS ME and makes me angry at my daycare--much like that dad that posted above who felt screwed. Not because he didn't know it was a possibility, but because it feels crappy and he (and I) are frankly just complaining.

The way I look at it is this: I am paying $50 a day for a service. If I'm willing to show up with my child for my daycare to perform the service, then my daycare should do one of two things: 1) perform the service for the $50, or 2) not perform the service but not take my $50.

Doesn't that sound reasonable? The reality is that SO OFTEN when the daycare is closed, SOMEHOW most of us other workers STILL HAVE TO GO TO WORK. So not only am I out the $50 I had to pay for services my daycare REFUSED to render that day (yeah, yeah, I know...for safety...but the rest of us are out there, so our bosses deemed it safe for us to go to work somehow...), but now I have to pay money on top of that to find different care for my child! (Care I already paid someone for, mind you!) And I REALLY feel bad for the people who simply don't get paid if they don't go to work, because sometimes those people are doubly screwed--they have to pay the $50 plus they have to miss out on their paycheck that day because they couldn't find care for their kids...ummm, care they ALREADY PAID SOMEONE FOR. (okay, I'll give the dead horse a break)

Think of it this way: Imagine you work in the city and you pay a parking lot $25 a day to park there, but SOMETIMES when you show up with your car they turn you away, but debit your checking account for the $25 anyway. Seriously. Imagine that. Most people would be outraged. Regardless of whether or not this was in the contract, how screwed would you feel once this had happened two times...three times.... ?

And please, can we just skip the responses about how my kid's not a car and the daycare providers aren't parking attendants and how dare I and devaluing and all that--This post is irrelevant to how wonderful the pseudo-moms are at my daycare, who are helping me parent my child. This argument is about the money end of things.

The daycare is a BUSINESS. And the point is simple. The daycare is providing a service, I'm paying for it, they refuse to provide it sometimes, yet I can't in turn refuse to pay for it. UNFAIR. Legal, yes. Unfair, yes.

Let's make this daycare a co-op. NOW I get it. This co-op only makes enough money to keep itself in operation and because of that, we all benefit (from low costs). Fine--in that case, I'm not complaining--we need to keep the center open, regardless of weather! But a for-profit center is different.

I read all these things about "but we (daycare owners) still have to pay the rent! we still have to pay operating costs!". So? How is that persuasive?? Guess what? If I stopped coming to work and my boss started refusing to pay me, do you think it's a valid argument for me to say, "But I still have to pay my mortgage and my insurance and buy food!!" Hell no! He'd say, "You don't provide the services, you don't get paid." Why is this universally-accepted concept so screwy when it comes to daycare?

To me it's no different than, say, a retail business. If they decide to close for weather they don't make sales that day. Or cut hair that day. Or sell gas that day. In other words, they LOSE MONEY if they choose to close for weather...so therefore most of them rarely close! But somehow when daycares close for weather they still get paid for the services they didn't render. I can't see in what world that's fair!

(And that doesn't even touch on incentive. If I got paid for not coming to work, and I got to DECIDE when I wasn't showing up, any time, any day, guess what my incentive is?)

Look, at the very least, charge me some MINIMAL amount. Some amount that doesn't include the cost of feeding the kids or profit or supplies that day. Even that would make me feel slightly less screwed.

Clearly....I'm tired of snow days.
Yup. As a provider, I completely agree with you. Having to pay for a service that is not being offered is NOT fair. I do not charge my parents for snow days. BUT, I do charge a couple extra dollars/month than many providers in my town so that I do not have to charge for snow days. This year was an anomaly for my area and there were lots of snow day. I will lose a few dollars because of this- but my parents are super happy that they get a credit on their statement when we've had a snow day--client satisfaction matters a whole lot in keeping your business stable. Last year there was not a single snow day where I live and I made a little extra.

I understand a provider's inclination to say, "well, it's in the contract" and I say it myself. I have policies in place that some parents don't like. They have to decide to either deal with it or leave. Obviously, you've decided that this one "unfair" policy is not worth leaving a child care that you seem to like otherwise.

I agree with you that it's not a fair policy-perhaps a better compromise would be the center charging more per day and not charging on snow days or just charging a reduced amount on snow days for those expenses that we do still have to deal with (utilities and such).
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:32 PM
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I understand and even agree with most (not all) of what you are saying and honestly, my only answer is the same answer I tell my daycare children.

Life isn't fair.

The sooner you accept that and figure out how to make your life as happy as you want or need it to be, it is what it is. There are VERY few things in life that are truly fair.

Charging for snow days is NOT fair.

But I do it anyways.

Not just because I can but because I can and because it is how I personally choose to run my business.

If it doesn't work for a specific family, then they don't sign on with me. Other than finding care that doesn't charge for snow days you really only have one other option.....live somewhere where it doesn't snow.
AMEN!!! Discussions between providers/parents are endless. I have been reading posts this evening where parents don't want their kids to nap because they can't get the child to go to bed ...then there is how charging for snow days is unfair ....I get many calls from persons I know that are not in my dc and they want to know "if their current provider can do certain things like the issues mentioned"....to which I reply "if the contract said mud would be served every day at lunch and you signed, then YES they can do that!" If you don't want to abide by this contract, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!! BUT if they come to my dc, I will have the same, if not stiffer, guidelines. We are business owners, not heartless, but we have boundaries to make this job worthwhile for ourselves and our families.

Last edited by Michael; 02-11-2014 at 08:42 PM.
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:02 PM
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Kendallina--

I'm not surprised your parents are impressed with your great commitment to customer service!! Sounds like your policy keeps parents happy and doesn't help you/hurt you too much either way. That's a WIN!

Annalee--

I'm guessing from your confused emoticon with three question marks next to this ---> "then there is how charging for snow days is unfair" means that you are:

1) baffled as to how I could think such a thing, and
2) CONFIDENT that you are right in your opposite opinion.

But since you didn't actually address any of my points to help me understand why you think such a practice is clearly FAIR (as evidenced by your baffled emoticon), and instead just lumped me in with some complaint that sounded like "God I'm so sick of all these complaining customers!", I guess we can't talk about it.

So in response, I'll just address how I feel about the lack of any actual points on-topic in your response:
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Old 02-12-2014, 03:09 AM
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Why pay for a service that are not using?

Perhaps looking at your tuition differently will help you see it from a business perspective. Many centers and home daycares come up with their rates differently than you may think.

Let's say that there are 260 work days in a year (because Google told me so). The daycare will be closed 10 holidays per year as well as one full week during winter break. That means they will be open 245 days in the year. They are going to go ahead and figure in 5 unexpected closures for the year (weather related, loss of utilities, illness, etc.) so now they are at 240 days open for the year.

They charge $25 per day per child. Multiplied by the amount of days they estimate they will be open = $6000. To make payments easier for parents they divide this amount into 52 equal payments = rounded to $115 per week.

Assuming that clients are long-term (which is ideal) this means that the clients actually ARE only paying for days the daycare is open. They are not paying for days the daycare is closed. In fact, it's likely that they are getting free days in the end... if the daycare doesn't actually close for all 5 of those additional days they figured in. It sure feels like you're paying for every day, but it's likely you're not. In the scenario above if they charged for all 260 work days regardless of closed days the weekly rate would be $125.

I hope that makes sense
I love it. It is something I have thought about but was unable to put into words. I am saving this!
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Old 02-12-2014, 05:02 AM
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Kidgrind:

This is nothing about being sneaky--I appreciate that it's in your contracts and your parents know up front, and no one should be surprised...but that doesn't make it fair.

What if your contract said, "Sometimes, when I've personally overspent my bank account that month, I'll charge all you parents extra to make sure I have personal spending money. That way I can still go out to dinner every Saturday."

Is it in your contract? Yes. Do the parents get to decide up front if they will ACTUALLY pony up when it happens. Yes.

.....but does that make it FAIR? Nooooo.

And, oh wait...before I address the other part of your post, Kidgrind, can you please clarify something for me? You said this: "It’s fair. As a business owner I still have costs whether the children enrolled come or not."

Are you really saying that even when YOU PERSONALLY decide that you WILL NOT care for the children that day, you still think it's fair to charge the parents because you have to cover the costs of running your business? I can't imagine you mean it this way...

Or do you mean that if a parent CHOOSES not to come that day, they still have to pay? (I agree with this charge. You're right-on to charge for this.)

I don’t PERSONALLY make the decision not to care for children. My regulations dictate I do not provide services for the children’s SAFETY. The service I offer is safe & quality childcare based upon ENROLLMENT not ATTENDANCE.

The definition of fair is in accordance with the rules or standards; legitimate

My snow day policy based on the regulations I am governed by is fair. Thanks for sharing your perspective from your vantage point.
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Old 02-12-2014, 05:54 AM
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Kidgrind,

So help me understand. I'll give you an example: if you visit a tanning bed (at least in my state), there are signs everywhere stating that if the temperature in the room exceeds 100 degrees, the patron cannot tan. It's a regulatiin that the business MUST follow for the safety of the patron.

You have paid $25 for one tanning session before your trip to the tropics to get out of the snow (LOL), you go into the booth and it's 105 degrees and the tanning folks say sorry, regulations prohibit us from letting you tan.

YET THEY TAKE YOUR $25 ANYWAY and when you return to tan again, they make you buy another tan, EVEN THOUGH YOU NEVER RECEIVED THE FIRST TAN YOU PAID FOR.

You, apparently, would not feel cheated in this scenario, and you'd find this to be perfectly fair? Help me understand that.

Remember, in the question I've posed in this forum, whether or not it's in your contract is irrelevant.
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Old 02-12-2014, 06:00 AM
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Kendallina--

I'm not surprised your parents are impressed with your great commitment to customer service!! Sounds like your policy keeps parents happy and doesn't help you/hurt you too much either way. That's a WIN!

Annalee--

I'm guessing from your confused emoticon with three question marks next to this ---> "then there is how charging for snow days is unfair" means that you are:

1) baffled as to how I could think such a thing, and
2) CONFIDENT that you are right in your opposite opinion.

But since you didn't actually address any of my points to help me understand why you think such a practice is clearly FAIR (as evidenced by your baffled emoticon), and instead just lumped me in with some complaint that sounded like "God I'm so sick of all these complaining customers!", I guess we can't talk about it.

So in response, I'll just address how I feel about the lack of any actual points on-topic in your response:
Actually, I am open on snow days unless dc is rendered without electricity or water which are STATE guidelines/requirements. My main point is if a client reads/signs the contract, they are bound by it. I think what a dc chooses to put in their contract will be pertinent to THEIR program. Clients must respect that or go elsewhere! Why have a contract if you are not going to consider it binding? The confused emoticon simply expresses my frustration at how clients in my program and those I have received calls from consider those contracts for the "other clients", and feel they are not bound by that due to their situations.
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Old 02-12-2014, 06:24 AM
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Annalee, I'm guessing you didn't read through all the recent posts (understandable--they're long!!!).

Honestly, I'm absolutely sure there are a ton parents who don't read their contract, or don't think they'll CARE about their contract (until suddenly they care), and those parents--understandably--drive you all crazy, but my post was reacting to all of the original responses back in 2011, I think, where so many daycare owners were jumping on and defending this policy as FAIR (rather than defending it as being covered in the contract).

Covered in the contract is one thing. FAIR is something totally different.
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Old 02-12-2014, 06:59 AM
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This daycare I'm complaining about has another policy: Once per year you are allowed to take your child on vacation and NOT pay for that week at all.
I don't personally offer that benefit to parents, but I know there are users on this forum that do. I know we try to make it clear that whatever the contract states you need to just follow, but I wonder if your center director would be open to hearing your concerns. Perhaps you could ask if your family could use those 5 vacation days instead towards individual days your child cannot attend? They may say no, but if you currently have a good relationship with them they may at least consider it. I wouldn't suggest they actually change any of their policies, though.

Please consider registering for the forum. I always love hearing feedback from parents! The few parents that have joined and stayed here have helped me form many of my policies.
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Old 02-12-2014, 07:29 AM
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This daycare I'm complaining about has another policy: Once per year you are allowed to take your child on vacation and NOT pay for that week at all.


their vacation policy "punishes" families with less money and less ability to take vacation!
Personally, I don't close for weather so I have no interest in that debate. I also don't charge for closings other than Federal Holidays with 12 month notice given. (all in the contract )

Your views on Unpaid Vacation Time interest me greatly, though.

I offer two weeks per family, per year. I don't view it as a punishment for those who can't. I view it as an incentive for those who wouldn't otherwise.

I can't tell you how many times in the last 20 years parents have taken vacations and still had their kids in daycare, full time.

My goal with this incentive is for the kids to spent as much time with their parents as possible while they are small. This incentive works in the kids best interest, not the parents.

The parents are not my concern. Their life choices are their own. I don't mean that in an ugly way, I mean it literally. I gladly give up pay to see parents take their kids on vacation/stay-cations with them. Most use one week at Christmas and one in the summer since I added it to my contract..
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Old 02-12-2014, 08:44 AM
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There's something I'm noticing here that I think plays a big role in how both sides are viewing this issue.

Parent (Can you give yourself a user name there, so we can refer to you? ), you are using example from services that are pay-as-you-go: the deli, the tanning salon, etc.
The daycare providers tend to use examples that are monthly subscriptions, like cable, rent, etc.

Parent, you are viewing your daycare as a pay-as-you-go service, but WE tend to see ourselves as subscribe-for-the-week/month/whatever. There is a disconnect here between how YOU are viewing the service and how WE are viewing it.

Furthermore, I am familiar with the Primrose chain and the are very much more in line with a private school than with a regular ol' daycare center. As such, they (and many places like them) choose to (or may be required to, I'm not sure) follow the local public schools when it comes to weather related closures, holidays, etc.

If you choose to view your center as a school, and your "$50/day" as TUITION at a PRIVATE ACADEMY--do you still feel that it is unfair? If you choose to send your child to Catholic school for elementary, will you still consider it unfair that you still have to pay the same tuition every month, regardless of how many snow days there are?
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Old 02-12-2014, 08:58 AM
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Parent, you are viewing your daycare as a pay-as-you-go service, but WE tend to see ourselves as subscribe-for-the-week/month/whatever. There is a disconnect here between how YOU are viewing the service and how WE are viewing it.
I get what you're saying Silver. I still pay the same amount in gym membership fees when their pipe burst and the gym closed for two days even if I couldn't go. I pay for the month, not per day that I attend. But there's no sense in beating a dead horse.
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:37 AM
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There's something I'm noticing here that I think plays a big role in how both sides are viewing this issue.

Parent (Can you give yourself a user name there, so we can refer to you? ), you are using example from services that are pay-as-you-go: the deli, the tanning salon, etc.
The daycare providers tend to use examples that are monthly subscriptions, like cable, rent, etc.

Parent, you are viewing your daycare as a pay-as-you-go service, but WE tend to see ourselves as subscribe-for-the-week/month/whatever. There is a disconnect here between how YOU are viewing the service and how WE are viewing it.

Furthermore, I am familiar with the Primrose chain and the are very much more in line with a private school than with a regular ol' daycare center. As such, they (and many places like them) choose to (or may be required to, I'm not sure) follow the local public schools when it comes to weather related closures, holidays, etc.

If you choose to view your center as a school, and your "$50/day" as TUITION at a PRIVATE ACADEMY--do you still feel that it is unfair? If you choose to send your child to Catholic school for elementary, will you still consider it unfair that you still have to pay the same tuition every month, regardless of how many snow days there are?
{okay I broke down and got a user name }

Okay, let's talk about that. What you're describing is a recurring charge that happens whether I use the service or not. For example, I have a monthly newspaper subscription. It would be ludicrous and unreasonable for me to call my newspaper provider and say, "I know you delivered the paper every day like you promised, but I only read it three times. So can I have my money back for the other 27 days?"

This is totally different. Let's look at MV's scenario: MV paid for a gym membership and was DENIED use of the gym for two days, but was charged for it anyway. Know what I'd be doing? (I know you know...) I'D BE COMPLAINING. It's not fair.

Maybe MV's contract is clear that if the roof falls in she still has to pay for the gym membership--I don't know. But that doesn't make it fair and it would probably cause her to look for another gym.

SilverSabre, you're likening it to a "spot held"...as in, almost like a club membership, but it's not the same thing.

I've really thought about this, and I've considered your scenario of a school situation, and I've decided that schools are far more justified in closing (i.e. CHOOSING not to perform the service that day) because they have kids waiting for the bus and they are actually transporting children. That doesn't really address if it's still fair for them to charge me, but it at least helps explain part of my beef, in that, why do these darn daycares close SO MUCH??? McDonald's isn't closed. The Post Office isn't closed. My corporation I work for isn't closed, but guess what...my DAYCARE is closed. WHY????

Oh! But my daycare transports kids! To kindergarten and such! Oh wait...but they DON'T do that when SCHOOL'S CLOSED (which is the only time daycare's also closed). So there goes that argument in their favor...

But to directly answer your question, yes I would feel different if it was a private Catholic school, and here's why (and I'll totally ignore the transportation issue I mention above):

1) I'm paying for an EDUCATION, NOT child care services. Snow day or not, they can probably *overall* prove that they are still providing my child with the good education I'm paying for, plus they'd point to the state laws and say, "We were in session this year the minimum amount we were required to be in session."

NET: I GOT WHAT I PAID FOR. (But when daycare is closed for snow, I DO NOT get what I paid for)

2) I don't pay "tuition". I pay by the week for child care. I should receive the child care I paid for or I shouldn't have to pay for it.

3) Finally, in order to provide an adequate education, the state determines how many days schools have to be in session (I'm assuming this applies to private schools too). So let's look at it another way. By state law let's say they have to be in school for a minimum of 200 days. Due to snow days (for which I still had to pay! *sob*) they only have been in school for 190 days. I'm guessing, that *if* I pay a yearly tuition and not weekly, and *if* that private school then has to extend their school year by adding TWO WEEKS to the end of the school year, I'm guessing I DO NOT get billed for that extra two weeks ON TOP of the yearly tuition I already paid. In other words....I *STILL* got what I paid for and I didn't have to pay any extra to get it.

And if we're looking at this as what I'm BUYING and what I'm GETTING, think about it this way. What if I bought a private high-school "education" for my child and that school CHOSE that year not to teach ANY MATH at all (because their math teacher quit! and it wasn't THEIR fault! and it would be challenging to find another math teacher! and they still have to pay their bills/other teachers/licences etc!) and I had to go to another private school or tutor and pay for my child to learn his/her math... Sound fair?

That's really what's happening when the daycare closes for snow. I paid for child care. I was refused child care. I had to buy child care from some other provider. And somehow this is supposed to be fair?
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:49 AM
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So far Craftymissbeth wins as the only possibly satisfying response that doesn't make me feel cheated.

I want to give credit where credit's due, so I want acknowledge my question as satisfactorily addressed by Crafty, with much respect for her answer. I was impressed.

But I'm still willing to address any other versions of justification for this policy, because...uh...clearly I have a passion for it.

[OMG the owner or moderator or someone (or maybe it was randomly generated??) made my avatar a snowman. This seriously cracked me up! It's perfect!]
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:51 AM
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{okay I broke down and got a user name }
Welcome to the forum!

Can I ask you a couple questions?

Are you trying to find out why your child care charges for snow days?

Are you trying to convince other providers not to charge or that it isn't okay to do so?

Are you just looking to vent that some things in life aren't fair?

Are you discussing this with YOUR child care?

Bottom line, I don't understand your point. Why are you putting forth so much time and effort making sure everyone here knows you don't think it is fair to be charged for a snow day...

What is in that for you and what's in that for me? (not me personally but the providers on this board in general).

Charging for snow days isn't fair. I agree. But there are a lot more important things in life that aren't fair that deserve this kind of attention, if not more.

In the grand scheme of things, as a parent...if I had to pay my provider for a few snow days here and there and couldn't use her services, I might feel a little put out financially but if the other 99.9% of her policies AND care is good, sound quality care that I can trust with my child, it would be worth it in the end to me.

I value the bigger picture verses picking apart the small stuff....especially those things (snow days) that happen so infrequently that in a few months, we won't even remember how tough or irritating they were.
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Old 02-12-2014, 11:07 AM
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Welcome to the forum!

Can I ask you a couple questions?

Are you trying to find out why your child care charges for snow days?

Are you trying to convince other providers not to charge or that it isn't okay to do so?

Are you just looking to vent that some things in life aren't fair?

Are you discussing this with YOUR child care?

Bottom line, I don't understand your point. Why are you putting forth so much time and effort making sure everyone here knows you don't think it is fair to be charged for a snow day...

What is in that for you and what's in that for me? (not me personally but the providers on this board in general).

Charging for snow days isn't fair. I agree. But there are a lot more important things in life that aren't fair that deserve this kind of attention, if not more.

In the grand scheme of things, as a parent...if I had to pay my provider for a few snow days here and there and couldn't use her services, I might feel a little put out financially but if the other 99.9% of her policies AND care is good, sound quality care that I can trust with my child, it would be worth it in the end to me.

I value the bigger picture verses picking apart the small stuff....especially those things (snow days) that happen so infrequently that in a few months, we won't even remember how tough or irritating they were.

Wait, before I respond to your post, I want to make sure I'm being fair in my response, so I need a clarification. Are you genuinely just curious about why I'd put so much effort toward addressing the thing I posted to your forum about, or am I supposed to pick up on all the unspoken things I *could* read between the lines from in your post?

Unspoken, but implied things like:
"I'm tired of this discussion."
"You're beating a dead horse."
"Your issue has been thoroughly addressed, so please fade back into the interwebz and leave us alone."

And before you answer, please consider that I posted ONE original response to this thread, and since then, I've only been responding to people who have responded to me. Thus, *I'm* not driving this traffic.

Unless...I'm NOT SUPPOSED TO BE responding to those who are responding to me??

Wait, that can't be right... *consults internet handbook*
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Old 02-12-2014, 11:16 AM
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Wait, before I respond to your post, I want to make sure I'm being fair in my response, so I need a clarification. Are you genuinely just curious about why I'd put so much effort toward addressing the thing I posted to your forum about, or am I supposed to pick up on all the unspoken things I *could* read between the lines from in your post?

Unspoken, but implied things like:
"I'm tired of this discussion."
"You're beating a dead horse."
"Your issue has been thoroughly addressed, so please fade back into the interwebz and leave us alone."

And before you answer, please consider that I posted ONE original response to this thread, and since then, I've only been responding to people who have responded to me. Thus, *I'm* not driving this traffic.

Unless...I'm NOT SUPPOSED TO BE responding to those who are responding to me??

Wait, that can't be right... *consults internet handbook*
*I like you you *

No, I am genuinely curious.

...and I am not a read between the lines kind of provider. I am pretty black and white...and very transparent.

Sometimes that leaves my foot in my mouth but I am who I am and will apologize if I offend but take responsibility for all I say and do.....even when I am in the wrong.

So no. There is no hidden message or anything like that...just genuinely curious. I can't help that part of me...

I started this profession accidentally. I was on the same path as you.... and suddenly found myself here.
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Old 02-12-2014, 11:19 AM
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If your very expensive center is providing good care on a reliable basis, and their policy states no refund for snow days, it seems really simple to me. You pay, as per policy, or go elsewhere. It shouldn't be that controversial. Life isn't always fair.
My Verizon was down for 3 days, I did not get a refund or discount. I don't think that's fair either, but I didn't want to pay an ETF, so I had to suck it up and continue with Verizon.
I don't charge for days my center is closed, but that's in my policy manual.
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Old 02-12-2014, 06:45 PM
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*I like you you *

No, I am genuinely curious.

...and I am not a read between the lines kind of provider. I am pretty black and white...and very transparent.

Sometimes that leaves my foot in my mouth but I am who I am and will apologize if I offend but take responsibility for all I say and do.....even when I am in the wrong.

So no. There is no hidden message or anything like that...just genuinely curious. I can't help that part of me...

I started this profession accidentally. I was on the same path as you.... and suddenly found myself here.
BlackCat: okay cool.

Honestly I never participate in things like this but I was already feeling impassioned about this issue (which is why I searched it out on the internet) and I was planning on talking to my daycare about it. I looked it up because I wanted to know if I was missing something in my thinking. Boy, now I'm totally prepared for the discussion!

But once I got here and saw some of the original responders (back in 2010) being flippant to the parents who were complaining about this policy and then backing up their responses with what I thought were weak arguments, I couldn't resist jumping in.

And then the lawyer in me loves a good debate, so that helps drive my interest in responding. Plus the lawyer in me also makes me a natural ADVOCATE, so if I *can* influence some folks in the daycare industry to think twice about this policy, then that seems worth it to me too.

Being a lawyer isn't all it's cracked up to be. I loved law school, but you have to really want to work ALL THE TIME to be a typical lawyer. I actually negotiate contracts for a living, which I enjoy, but I would have a serious discussion with any youngster who wanted to be a lawyer.
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Old 02-12-2014, 07:44 PM
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Wow, if you could put all this effort in convincing someone about being morally fair into some bigger issue that really mattered...you would be one hellava lawyer.
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:58 PM
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So I have read most of the responses, and I just want to add my two cents.

I close for snow days, when it is declared "a state of emergency". I do this because in case of an emergency, I would not be able to transport a child - and emergency services would not be able to make it to me in a timely manner. I feel like that is to much of a liability to have a child in my care, when emergency transpiration is compromised. We very rarely close for a snow day, so far 1 this winter. But I do charge - BUT all but one parent was already staying home. In that case, I am not able to properly do my job (responsibly offer care for a child) due to the weather. It isn't my fault, and it isn't the parent's fault either. But should I lose income because of the weather, when it is no fault of my own ? To me, it would be the equivalent of an office worker, showing up to work, only to be told the power is out. They need the power to adequately do their job - so without it they cannot preform their duties. They would still be paid for the day. Yes, their employer would lose money - but it wasn't the office worker's fault either. They are ready to do their job, but forces beyond anyone's control stopped that from happening.

Now, I understand your child is in a center. To my knowledge, a center closes more often than home daycares because the employees have to make the (possibly dangerous) drive into work, while home daycare employees (for the most part) are already at the daycare. I can understand the logic behind that. Also, IF they chose to stay open - they could have a disproportionate number of children versus employees able to make it in. What if far more children come in than they have staff to care for them ? Then they risk a major licensing violation. Once again, not their fault and not the parents fault.

If they close and don't charge, they lose money. If they close and charge, the parent loses money. I don't have a good, definite, fair, answer, either way one party winds up losing.
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Old 02-13-2014, 08:00 AM
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Alright, I'm losing steam on this (finally), but I think I can find a *lil* bit more for one point.

Blandino, I get what you're saying, but I think it's a bad analogy. You're describing an employee on SALARY. My daycare is not on "salary" from me... What if you work at Macy's and you're not on salary, and you show up one day and Macy's is closed due to a power outage, I'm pretty certain Macy's would NOT pay you that day.

On the other hand, I DO pay by the week. It's not salary, but then it's actually not hourly either...so maybe this is some hybrid situation where there is a point in there somewhere... I'm not sure I have the energy left to ponder deeply (the only kinda pondering I know how to do) on this twist, but at least I can see from your post that it's not just black and white.

Blandino, though, you brought up a REALLY interesting point about bad weather. Part of what irks me is that the daycare center is closed when other businesses are open. That drives me crazy. My thinking was, "they don't have to bus the kids anywhere, so how do they justify closing?" But, I hadn't considered that you are RESPONSIBLE for getting the child help in an emergency situation, and so maybe that's a justification for closing when so many other establishments are open.

Now frankly, I'm not 100% sure it's a great argument, because maybe all you're legally responsible to do is call the police/firemen/ambulance and if they can't get to you, it's not your fault. (sorry, I'm thinking strictly about your liability, not whether or not that's a good idea or a "nice" way of thinking!! That's what we lawyers do...think about liability.) But, Blandino, it's a really good point worthy of further pondering...



There are some really great thinkers on here! (and clearly a lot of savvy business owners) So while I have your attention, I'm curious about your thoughts on another situation at my daycare:

This particular center has at least two "Teacher In-service Days" per school year. These are days when they are "closed" (but of course I have to pay) so that their teachers can train, clean, organize, decorate classrooms, etc. As you can imagine, I find this outrageous. I know, I know...you're surprised about that.

*If* they were a private school, I could see this happening. *If* I was paying them for their private kindergarten I can see sucking it up. Fine. But when my child is an infant, or a preschooler, or whatever, I can't see the justification around having a Teacher In-Service Day. My husband owns his own business--he doesn't "charge" his customers for training his staff, or for a special day of keeping up his offices and warehouses. Sure it's built-in to what he charges, as it should be, but there's not a special day when his customers all have to pony up $50 and don't get service in return because he's training his staff.

I'm starting to recognize why Primrose calls themselves Primrose SCHOOL. Because then they can say, "YOU, SnowDayMom, might see us as a daycare, but you're actually paying for private school for your infant (har har), so that's why we need a teacher in-service day, just like any other SCHOOL."

Also, you can probably see from this that the snow days are not the ONLY area I'm feeling a little taken advantage of here, when I'm already paying for an expensive place as it is (i.e. don't slip extra costs in too, please!). There's also a $50-75 "supply fee" I have to pay at the beginning of every school year. Grrrr.

I know I could change schools, but my hubby thinks it would be too disruptive for my lil girl, and he doesn't have the same sense of personal outrage around perceived "unfairness" as I do.

But within the next year I may "retire" from what I'm doing, and then I'll pull her out and watch her myself. Money will be tight, but then I'll have more free time to spend with my kids, and maybe put some of my energy toward helping others! (as one of your respondents suggested)
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Old 02-13-2014, 08:31 AM
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You could always start a new thread for your separate concerns.

As far as your daycare being on salary... yeah, they are, IMO. My husband is on salary and regardless of how much or how little he works his pay is the same. Same idea with your daycare. Regardless of how much or little the daycare is open they get paid the same.

Tbh, you are absolutely not going to be convinced and your opinion is clearly not likely to change about the issue.

Many, many posters have suggested you either find a daycare with policies you agree with 100% or suck it up, buttercup.
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Old 02-13-2014, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by SnowDayMom View Post
Alright, I'm losing steam on this (finally), but I think I can find a *lil* bit more for one point.

Blandino, I get what you're saying, but I think it's a bad analogy. You're describing an employee on SALARY. My daycare is not on "salary" from me... What if you work at Macy's and you're not on salary, and you show up one day and Macy's is closed due to a power outage, I'm pretty certain Macy's would NOT pay you that day.

On the other hand, I DO pay by the week. It's not salary, but then it's actually not hourly either...so maybe this is some hybrid situation where there is a point in there somewhere... I'm not sure I have the energy left to ponder deeply (the only kinda pondering I know how to do) on this twist, but at least I can see from your post that it's not just black and white.

Blandino, though, you brought up a REALLY interesting point about bad weather. Part of what irks me is that the daycare center is closed when other businesses are open. That drives me crazy. My thinking was, "they don't have to bus the kids anywhere, so how do they justify closing?" But, I hadn't considered that you are RESPONSIBLE for getting the child help in an emergency situation, and so maybe that's a justification for closing when so many other establishments are open.

Now frankly, I'm not 100% sure it's a great argument, because maybe all you're legally responsible to do is call the police/firemen/ambulance and if they can't get to you, it's not your fault. (sorry, I'm thinking strictly about your liability, not whether or not that's a good idea or a "nice" way of thinking!! That's what we lawyers do...think about liability.) But, Blandino, it's a really good point worthy of further pondering...



There are some really great thinkers on here! (and clearly a lot of savvy business owners) So while I have your attention, I'm curious about your thoughts on another situation at my daycare:

This particular center has at least two "Teacher In-service Days" per school year. These are days when they are "closed" (but of course I have to pay) so that their teachers can train, clean, organize, decorate classrooms, etc. As you can imagine, I find this outrageous. I know, I know...you're surprised about that.

*If* they were a private school, I could see this happening. *If* I was paying them for their private kindergarten I can see sucking it up. Fine. But when my child is an infant, or a preschooler, or whatever, I can't see the justification around having a Teacher In-Service Day. My husband owns his own business--he doesn't "charge" his customers for training his staff, or for a special day of keeping up his offices and warehouses. Sure it's built-in to what he charges, as it should be, but there's not a special day when his customers all have to pony up $50 and don't get service in return because he's training his staff.

I'm starting to recognize why Primrose calls themselves Primrose SCHOOL. Because then they can say, "YOU, SnowDayMom, might see us as a daycare, but you're actually paying for private school for your infant (har har), so that's why we need a teacher in-service day, just like any other SCHOOL."

Also, you can probably see from this that the snow days are not the ONLY area I'm feeling a little taken advantage of here, when I'm already paying for an expensive place as it is (i.e. don't slip extra costs in too, please!). There's also a $50-75 "supply fee" I have to pay at the beginning of every school year. Grrrr.

I know I could change schools, but my hubby thinks it would be too disruptive for my lil girl, and he doesn't have the same sense of personal outrage around perceived "unfairness" as I do.

But within the next year I may "retire" from what I'm doing, and then I'll pull her out and watch her myself. Money will be tight, but then I'll have more free time to spend with my kids, and maybe put some of my energy toward helping others! (as one of your respondents suggested)
I close for all professional days. Right now that is 3 Child Care conferences a year, a Thursday and Friday each time.. And yes, I charge 52 weeks a year but CLEARLY explain this in the interview process. Fair????? maybe, maybe not, but that point is mute because it is MY contract pertinent to MY child care program. With all due respect, contracts are non-negotiable and as a lawyer, you should respect that. Otherwise, why have them if you are NOT going to abide by them.
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Old 02-13-2014, 08:46 AM
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Now that we've moved on to paid training days/in-service days....I'd like to add that in order for me to do my job and continue caring for your (general you) child I must attend xx amount of training hours per year.

I have to pay for these trainings out of pocket. Travel, meals and whatever else it entails. I also pay for these trainings with loss of personal time with MY family...so that I can continue to offer quality and legal care to client families.

I work 50-55 hours per week ON SITE and another 10 or so after hours and on weekends. Running errands, cleaning and keeping my environment up to code.

I can deduct some of those expenses and claim a little bit of my time (although, how do you place a price tag on loss of time with your own DH or child) but for all intents and purposes the IRS allows me a break in some of those costs/expenses.

I charge my families for days I am not open for business. It's not always about that particular day and who it is or isn't fair to. It's about the bigger picture.

I work MUCH longer days/weeks than my clients and when it's all said and done.... I make a small profit.

Not a ton, and certainly not the kind of money people who work in other fields that require the same training, degree, and/or knowledge.

I don't bring home the big bucks...I don't own a home on some tropical island where the sun shines all the time. I don't drive a giant SUV that has a gas tank bigger than my kitchen. I don't wear designer clothing and my purses do NOT say Coach or Dooney & Burke.

I live pay check to pay check and my only real plans for retirement is death or the lottery...which ever happens first.... Not because I don't want a retirement plan but because I can NOT afford one.

I have too many parents complaining about having to pay a few dollars more when it snows so that they can feel like it is fair to them.

Like I said in my previous post.....I know you want fair. I know you are looking for justification but honestly, it isn't about fair and it isn't about what you or me or anyone else thinks is morally and/or ethically right or wrong.

It's about the big picture. It's about being happy OVERALL with the care you receive....even if that care is temporarily unavailable when it snows....

If you are genuinely happy with the services you receive, let it go. Pay for the few extra days that winter is hard on folks. Pay for the snow days and let it roll off your back because technically there are worse things going on in the world of early childhood and child care that ARE worthy of this kind of attention and discussion.

Be happy that you have a place you can trust 100% with the care of your child. If paying for a snow day here and there helps your provider stay in business and continue running in the black....great!

If collecting fees for snow days is a big money maker then your daycare has stumbled upon a gold mine and more power to them because we all know (atleast those of us on the providing end) this profession is NOT a gold mine....

Most of the providers I know here and in real life would qualify for government assistance.

So all in all, thank you for the parent perspective. Thank you for the good debate (I too love a good one ) but I am signing off this thread by offering you this.

Life is a give and take. Sometimes we have to be the givers. If it paints a better, prettier picture in the grand scheme of it all, it's all good.

Even if it isn't fair at the moment.
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Old 02-13-2014, 08:48 AM
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Tbh, you are absolutely not going to be convinced and your opinion is clearly not likely to change about the issue.

Many, many posters have suggested you either find a daycare with policies you agree with 100% or suck it up, buttercup.
It is widely known that the Vanity Centers charge more. That is part of the appeal for some clients. Just like in the fashion industry. Same product, different market.

I've never understood it, just know it is.

I love the debates, though. This has been a fun thread.
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:14 AM
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Now that we've moved on to paid training days/in-service days....I'd like to add that in order for me to do my job and continue caring for your (general you) child I must attend xx amount of training hours per year.

I have to pay for these trainings out of pocket. Travel, meals and whatever else it entails. I also pay for these trainings with loss of personal time with MY family...so that I can continue to offer quality and legal care to client families.

I work 50-55 hours per week ON SITE and another 10 or so after hours and on weekends. Running errands, cleaning and keeping my environment up to code.

I can deduct some of those expenses and claim a little bit of my time (although, how do you place a price tag on loss of time with your own DH or child) but for all intents and purposes the IRS allows me a break in some of those costs/expenses.

I charge my families for days I am not open for business. It's not always about that particular day and who it is or isn't fair to. It's about the bigger picture.

I work MUCH longer days/weeks than my clients and when it's all said and done.... I make a small profit.

Not a ton, and certainly not the kind of money people who work in other fields that require the same training, degree, and/or knowledge.

I don't bring home the big bucks...I don't own a home on some tropical island where the sun shines all the time. I don't drive a giant SUV that has a gas tank bigger than my kitchen. I don't wear designer clothing and my purses do NOT say Coach or Dooney & Burke.

I live pay check to pay check and my only real plans for retirement is death or the lottery...which ever happens first.... Not because I don't want a retirement plan but because I can NOT afford one.

I have too many parents complaining about having to pay a few dollars more when it snows so that they can feel like it is fair to them.

Like I said in my previous post.....I know you want fair. I know you are looking for justification but honestly, it isn't about fair and it isn't about what you or me or anyone else thinks is morally and/or ethically right or wrong.

It's about the big picture. It's about being happy OVERALL with the care you receive....even if that care is temporarily unavailable when it snows....

If you are genuinely happy with the services you receive, let it go. Pay for the few extra days that winter is hard on folks. Pay for the snow days and let it roll off your back because technically there are worse things going on in the world of early childhood and child care that ARE worthy of this kind of attention and discussion.

Be happy that you have a place you can trust 100% with the care of your child. If paying for a snow day here and there helps your provider stay in business and continue running in the black....great!

If collecting fees for snow days is a big money maker then your daycare has stumbled upon a gold mine and more power to them because we all know (atleast those of us on the providing end) this profession is NOT a gold mine....

Most of the providers I know here and in real life would qualify for government assistance.

So all in all, thank you for the parent perspective. Thank you for the good debate (I too love a good one ) but I am signing off this thread by offering you this.

Life is a give and take. Sometimes we have to be the givers. If it paints a better, prettier picture in the grand scheme of it all, it's all good.

Even if it isn't fair at the moment.
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:40 AM
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This is totally different. Let's look at MV's scenario: MV paid for a gym membership and was DENIED use of the gym for two days, but was charged for it anyway. Know what I'd be doing? (I know you know...) I'D BE COMPLAINING. It's not fair.

Maybe MV's contract is clear that if the roof falls in she still has to pay for the gym membership--I don't know. But that doesn't make it fair and it would probably cause her to look for another gym.

SilverSabre, you're likening it to a "spot held"...as in, almost like a club membership, but it's not the same thing.
I didn't complain about my gym closing, but that's just me. I understand that some things are out of their control and things happen. They didn't plan on their pipe bursting. It didn't really bother me that much.

I know that you would have complained ... even before you said you would. I've worked in the restaurant business and in retail in my younger years and you are most likely (all assumptions here, and yes I know about assumptions) what people in the customer service field call "one of those customers".

And really we can all keep going in circles here over and over but it doesn't really matter because it really is all about the contract. If you don't think it's fair find a daycare that is "fair". I don't charge for days that I have to close my daycare because I'm sick, I go on vacation, or I take a personal day. But my clients pay for their spot even if they come or not so if they go on vacation, if they get sick ... they pay. It's in my contract. They are paying the same flat weekly rate regardless of whether they are using it or not.

"b. Fees are charged for the week and are based solely on enrollment, not on attendance. There are no deductions in fees regardless of whether a child is present or not. " This is what we in our business call "paying for the slot/spot"
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Old 02-13-2014, 02:13 PM
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It really surprises how much parents complain on having to pay their provider for the few days they get to close because of weather or being sick. I mean we take care of your kids from morning until evening, we are basically raising your child and loving them as if they were are own. I payed a ton of money to my daughters preschool for 2 days a week, for a teacher to take care of her 2 hours a day. My daughter missed a ton of days one year! Basically missed half the year, but I still payed on time, and did not ask for a break in tuition. On top of that I did everything to please the teacher, brought in supplies for the class whenever she needed them just because they and my daughter for 2 hours a day. I will treat anybody who takes care of my child like a king or queen. I pay a tutor to tutor my oldest $50 an hour and we pay whether we show up or not. If you love your child and respect the provider you would pay your provider without any complaints. For the most part I have parents who pay me whether their child shows up or not, but they are reasonable parents who love their children and respect me. I have one parent who is late but I am dealing with the situation. If you don't like it find a place that is willing to pro rate for you. In my area that is very rare.
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Old 02-13-2014, 03:17 PM
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I provided child care in my home. My policy was basically, if I chose to close due to illness or whatever, I did not charge for the day. If there was a snow day, I charged for the whole day even if the child did not attend since I was open no matter the weather (since I was in my house). I charged for half the day for children not coming because they were sick...I found it was less likely parents would bring a sick child if the fee was less. I know my rules are very lax compared to other providers though...I only did child care to bring in a little extra money while staying home with my own child. I wasn't trying to run a household on my income so it did not cause me to miss paying bills when I had less income.

I have friends who provide childcare who could never miss payments like that...they would not be able to pay bills or buy groceries. They are struggling with all of these snow days lately. They have parents balking at paying for snow days when they were OPEN (teachers, of course, who did not have to work due to weather and see the opportunity to keep that money they had budgeted for daycare).
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Old 02-13-2014, 07:38 PM
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Annalee, I'm assuming you meant that YOUR contracts are non-negotiable, not that ALL contracts are non-negotiable. Because I negotiate contracts for a living--that's what I do as a lawyer--write contracts and negotiate them. God, do I wish contracts were non-negotiable. It would make my life so much easier. But then I'd be out of a job.

Well, it's been fun, ladies! (and guys, if there were any...) I wish you full rosters, lots of easygoing, generous parents, and let's all hope for sunshine and warm temps!
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Old 02-15-2014, 02:34 PM
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So you're saying that people who run daycare facilities are in the slim minority of workers in the U.S.? Every job I have ever had would not have paid me for not showing up to work or simply choosing not to open the shop for the day. You compare paying rent and utilities, but when I can't go to work because the daycare doesn't open, who is going to pay my rent or utilities? Sounds like quite a racket to me. One missed day of work costs me more money than the entire week of tuition.
I got paid from my ins company for time I didn't have to work on the one rare day they closed.

Do they HAVE to pay us if they close? Nope. But they did. And they still were out money because they could not handle their member's requests, yet they paid us willingly because we do a GREAT job and don't complain about everything.
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Old 02-15-2014, 04:14 PM
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How about this example?

You enroll in college. You pay your tuition through financial aide. Uh oh, the school closes for inclement weather, and not only that, it's the FIRST WEEK OF CLASS (PANIC NOW!). You didn't get to attend class for that week, and thus missed some assignments. There is NO extension on your assignments, and you don't think you should have to do them, but your teacher says they're still due, so you decide you want to drop the class. BUT, uh oh, you have already been in class for a week now, and NO REFUNDS are given after a certain date (let's pretend it's day 2 of class like at my college). You KNOW you will NOT be completing the class; but you will STILL have to pay the government their loan back! It doesn't matter that you didn't attend the class after 1 week, you're gonna get billed the WHOLE semester. You don't have to like it. It may not even be FAIR, but you signed the document to enroll in classes that you agreed to the terms of your financial aide, and that you agree to pay it back "regardless of whether or not you completed a class, passed the class or didn't pass the class, and whether or not you felt you got a good education. "

The point is, if you want drop-in care, where you ONLY pay for days you use, you need to find drop in care. Keep in mind, sometimes that costs MORE as opposed to a weekly set rate, so thus, by the end of the year? You pay the same or more than you would have been with a set rate.

All kinds of companies, such as Comcast, do things like this too. They offer 360 channels, but you only watch 100 of them. Do you think they refund you for the 260 you don't watch? Nope. It's a package deal. You pay for the whole lot, though you don't use it. They don't care that you don't use it. They just collect their checks, stream in channels, and everyone's on their merry ways.

Your home for rent:
You charge your tenants $1000 per month. Your tenant stays with her boyfriend and doesn't use the premises. You still charge $1000 per month. Is that fair? She's not living there 1/2 the time! Why should she pay?

Perhaps, you had to remodel a bathroom. You still charge your tenant $1000 per month, but she can't use that bathroom and she has the RIGHT to 100% comfortable use of her home. Are you gonna bring down her rent? Nope you are not.

Let's say you want your renter to leave. You don't like her. You tell her, "You have 30 days to get out" On the 16th. Because she was there for 1/2 of month the following month (thru the 15th for example) you still collect the $1000. Should you give her the prorated amount back? Probably, but your contract says that if you have to move to evict, they pay for x amount of rent for that 1/2 month AND as long as it takes you to fill the place up until the end of their lease. Fair? Why should they pay for 2 places???


See, life ain't fair, folks. But it's not fair, because of the people who abuse things.

So Daycare is kinda like the stuff I wrote above. Disagree? Call your phone company RIGHT NOW (while you're in contract) and see if you can get out of your ETF. I dare ya.
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Old 02-15-2014, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by BabyLuver21 View Post
How about this example?

You enroll in college. You pay your tuition through financial aide. Uh oh, the school closes for inclement weather, and not only that, it's the FIRST WEEK OF CLASS (PANIC NOW!). You didn't get to attend class for that week, and thus missed some assignments. There is NO extension on your assignments, and you don't think you should have to do them, but your teacher says they're still due, so you decide you want to drop the class. BUT, uh oh, you have already been in class for a week now, and NO REFUNDS are given after a certain date (let's pretend it's day 2 of class like at my college). You KNOW you will NOT be completing the class; but you will STILL have to pay the government their loan back! It doesn't matter that you didn't attend the class after 1 week, you're gonna get billed the WHOLE semester. You don't have to like it. It may not even be FAIR, but you signed the document to enroll in classes that you agreed to the terms of your financial aide, and that you agree to pay it back "regardless of whether or not you completed a class, passed the class or didn't pass the class, and whether or not you felt you got a good education. "

The point is, if you want drop-in care, where you ONLY pay for days you use, you need to find drop in care. Keep in mind, sometimes that costs MORE as opposed to a weekly set rate, so thus, by the end of the year? You pay the same or more than you would have been with a set rate.

All kinds of companies, such as Comcast, do things like this too. They offer 360 channels, but you only watch 100 of them. Do you think they refund you for the 260 you don't watch? Nope. It's a package deal. You pay for the whole lot, though you don't use it. They don't care that you don't use it. They just collect their checks, stream in channels, and everyone's on their merry ways.

Your home for rent:
You charge your tenants $1000 per month. Your tenant stays with her boyfriend and doesn't use the premises. You still charge $1000 per month. Is that fair? She's not living there 1/2 the time! Why should she pay?

Perhaps, you had to remodel a bathroom. You still charge your tenant $1000 per month, but she can't use that bathroom and she has the RIGHT to 100% comfortable use of her home. Are you gonna bring down her rent? Nope you are not.

Let's say you want your renter to leave. You don't like her. You tell her, "You have 30 days to get out" On the 16th. Because she was there for 1/2 of month the following month (thru the 15th for example) you still collect the $1000. Should you give her the prorated amount back? Probably, but your contract says that if you have to move to evict, they pay for x amount of rent for that 1/2 month AND as long as it takes you to fill the place up until the end of their lease. Fair? Why should they pay for 2 places???


See, life ain't fair, folks. But it's not fair, because of the people who abuse things.

So Daycare is kinda like the stuff I wrote above. Disagree? Call your phone company RIGHT NOW (while you're in contract) and see if you can get out of your ETF. I dare ya.
I appreciate the effort...but:

COLLEGE CLASS: The only way this comparison possibly is analogous to the daycare-closing-for-snow situation is if they close school SO MUCH that you're able to make the argument that you aren't getting what you paid for. Know what you're paying for? An education (or the specific education of that class, if you're buying by the class). That would have to be a LOT of closing and would be VERY hard to prove that you didn't get the education you paid for. In my opinion, it's a HUGE stretch to say this is a good comparison. And on top of it, here's another reason it doesn't compare: You have an unrelated third party involved--the government. I'm quite sure the government doesn't give a hoot about the quality (or lack of) your education, but they are sure gonna want their money back.

COMCAST: Not a good comparison at all. In that example they have at all times provided what you paid for--whether you use it or not is irrelevant. In the snow day example the daycare WILL NOT provide the service you paid for, even though you as a parent may actually want to use it.

I "rented" a movie from Direct TV, the movie got all screwed up halfway through and I wasn't actually able to watch it (thus I didn't get what I paid for). I called DTV and guess what? They refunded me the money for the movie. Know why? Because I paid for something they DID NOT PROVIDE ME, just like when the daycares close for snow and thus DO NOT PROVIDE me with the childcare for which I paid them.

HOME FOR RENT: Is the same example. They paid and you are AT ALL TIMES willing to let them live there, but they CHOSE not to. COMPLETELY a different example and not applicable here. An example that WOULD be analogous is they pay you the $1000 rent for the whole month and you refuse to let them live there for one of the weeks of the month. Fair now????

BATHROOM REMODEL: Perhaps you're getting close to a good analogy there, because I'm assuming the $1000 covers the rent of the whole house, and you're depriving them of some of the house. I'm sure there's case-law out there of renters who've sued over stuff like this and I honestly don't know how courts look at this, but lets look at it as lay-people. It's a close analogy but not the same because the landlord is improving your house by "closing" the bathroom, so when he's done, you'll be getting a better house for the same money. This is actually a closer analogy to my daycare closing for teacher in-service days, because an argument can be made that I'm getting better teachers/school afterward. But frankly, I'm guessing a tenant could refuse the remodel during the term of their contract, unless it was required due to a leak or something. And that's probably a whole other discussion (if the remodel was required for safety--that's getting a little closer, but it still is only analogous if the school HAS TO close for snow rather than choosing to close. I'm not sure in what situations, other than a snow emergency, that the daycare HAS to close. I'm sure there are some--I just don't know them).

EVICTION: I can't imagine you can evict just for not liking someone, and if you can, then making them pay until you find another renter is outrageously wrong. I'm guessing whatever rule you're talking about that might exist for eviction (if it's in landlord/tenant law and not just in your contract) exists only because you are allowed to evict in situation where the tenant is a WRONG-DOER. They have trashed the place, flooded it, destroyed your investment, etc. So yes, in that case, kick them out and charge them until you find another tenant (if you're allowed to) because THEY HAVE CAUSED the situation and are being bad people and have DAMAGED you financially......but again, totally not the same thing as a snow day.

Ughhh, and the cell example is the same as the college and Comcase example. Not a good argument--not the same thing.
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Old 02-15-2014, 05:38 PM
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Well if you want an EXACT replica of daycare, you won't get it.

Because there isn't anything "EXACTLY" the same.

However, if you pay $100 per week to your provider, and she closes on a snow day and it's in your contract that "childcare is based on enrollment, not attendance", you don't have a leg to stand on.

Much like your employer pays you sick time and even if they close, you use your sick time (that DCP's are not priviledged to), but you still got paid for not being there.

You expect to be paid for your paid time off (pay for not working), but you don't wish to afford the same courtesy on a questionable day or for illness? That is VERY hypocritical.
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Old 02-15-2014, 06:26 PM
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Well if you want an EXACT replica of daycare, you won't get it.

Because there isn't anything "EXACTLY" the same.

However, if you pay $100 per week to your provider, and she closes on a snow day and it's in your contract that "childcare is based on enrollment, not attendance", you don't have a leg to stand on.

Much like your employer pays you sick time and even if they close, you use your sick time (that DCP's are not priviledged to), but you still got paid for not being there.

You expect to be paid for your paid time off (pay for not working), but you don't wish to afford the same courtesy on a questionable day or for illness? That is VERY hypocritical.
Show me the employer who would 1) offer the employees unlimited paid sick days, and 2) agree with you that such an arrangement would be totally fair (he'll just pay you AND a temp to get the work done!). You show me that, and then you can call me hypocritical.

And I employ a daycare CENTER because I have no intention of having a care provider who can't watch my child due to illness, let alone ask me to pay.
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Old 02-16-2014, 08:35 AM
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I empathize- I'm a parent living in Philadelphia and my daycare has closed a ton this season, while I still have to work (I'm in a field that cannot close for any reason- I supervise "essential personnel"). I get that I'm paying for a spot- not that I'm thrilled about it.

The only time I was really annoyed and felt that I deserved some sort of refund was when Sandy hit and the daycare was closed for a week and a half for power outages. That's a long time to be closed and we were struggling to find care, and I was even more annoyed when I found out the teachers didn't get paid for that time.
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Old 02-16-2014, 10:56 AM
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I empathize- I'm a parent living in Philadelphia and my daycare has closed a ton this season, while I still have to work (I'm in a field that cannot close for any reason- I supervise "essential personnel"). I get that I'm paying for a spot- not that I'm thrilled about it.

The only time I was really annoyed and felt that I deserved some sort of refund was when Sandy hit and the daycare was closed for a week and a half for power outages. That's a long time to be closed and we were struggling to find care, and I was even more annoyed when I found out the teachers didn't get paid for that time.
In your situation I think it would be beneficial for you to find a center that is open 52 weeks a year and does not close unexpectedly for any reason. Even if your current daycare doesn't charge it doesn't sound like you don't have a significant other, family, friends, or any type of back-up care whatsoever. In my area, all of the centers close for snow days, but maybe you would be able to find one.

As far as the Sandy situation goes... that is beyond ridiculous! If your daycare was going to charge you for all of that time (IMO they should not have) then the staff should have at least been paid! Sorry you had to deal with not only Sandy, but that daycare also.
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Old 02-16-2014, 01:47 PM
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Alright, I'm losing steam on this (finally), but I think I can find a *lil* bit more for one point.

Blandino, I get what you're saying, but I think it's a bad analogy. You're describing an employee on SALARY. My daycare is not on "salary" from me... What if you work at Macy's and you're not on salary, and you show up one day and Macy's is closed due to a power outage, I'm pretty certain Macy's would NOT pay you that day.

On the other hand, I DO pay by the week. It's not salary, but then it's actually not hourly either...so maybe this is some hybrid situation where there is a point in there somewhere... I'm not sure I have the energy left to ponder deeply (the only kinda pondering I know how to do) on this twist, but at least I can see from your post that it's not just black and white.

Blandino, though, you brought up a REALLY interesting point about bad weather. Part of what irks me is that the daycare center is closed when other businesses are open. That drives me crazy. My thinking was, "they don't have to bus the kids anywhere, so how do they justify closing?" But, I hadn't considered that you are RESPONSIBLE for getting the child help in an emergency situation, and so maybe that's a justification for closing when so many other establishments are open.

Now frankly, I'm not 100% sure it's a great argument, because maybe all you're legally responsible to do is call the police/firemen/ambulance and if they can't get to you, it's not your fault. (sorry, I'm thinking strictly about your liability, not whether or not that's a good idea or a "nice" way of thinking!! That's what we lawyers do...think about liability.) But, Blandino, it's a really good point worthy of further pondering...



There are some really great thinkers on here! (and clearly a lot of savvy business owners) So while I have your attention, I'm curious about your thoughts on another situation at my daycare:

This particular center has at least two "Teacher In-service Days" per school year. These are days when they are "closed" (but of course I have to pay) so that their teachers can train, clean, organize, decorate classrooms, etc. As you can imagine, I find this outrageous. I know, I know...you're surprised about that.

*If* they were a private school, I could see this happening. *If* I was paying them for their private kindergarten I can see sucking it up. Fine. But when my child is an infant, or a preschooler, or whatever, I can't see the justification around having a Teacher In-Service Day. My husband owns his own business--he doesn't "charge" his customers for training his staff, or for a special day of keeping up his offices and warehouses. Sure it's built-in to what he charges, as it should be, but there's not a special day when his customers all have to pony up $50 and don't get service in return because he's training his staff.

I'm starting to recognize why Primrose calls themselves Primrose SCHOOL. Because then they can say, "YOU, SnowDayMom, might see us as a daycare, but you're actually paying for private school for your infant (har har), so that's why we need a teacher in-service day, just like any other SCHOOL."

Also, you can probably see from this that the snow days are not the ONLY area I'm feeling a little taken advantage of here, when I'm already paying for an expensive place as it is (i.e. don't slip extra costs in too, please!). There's also a $50-75 "supply fee" I have to pay at the beginning of every school year. Grrrr.

I know I could change schools, but my hubby thinks it would be too disruptive for my lil girl, and he doesn't have the same sense of personal outrage around perceived "unfairness" as I do.

But within the next year I may "retire" from what I'm doing, and then I'll pull her out and watch her myself. Money will be tight, but then I'll have more free time to spend with my kids, and maybe put some of my energy toward helping others! (as one of your respondents suggested)
I also close for snow days but only when a SOE is declared. Years ago I was always open because, being an in-home, I didn't need to travel. Then during one particularly bad storm, one of my dck's became violently ill. Fever of 102, projectile vomiting, etc. the roads were so bad that no one could come get her for over FIVE hours. If the situation had worsened, I could not have gotten her out. Certainly no emergency vehicles could have gotten in. Now you say, perhaps your liability would be covered by simply making the 911 call. Great and all, but honestly, that would be cold comfort if the worst happened. Further my state licensor told me at the time that had emergency vehicles not been able get to my home because my drive/ exits were not clear (and during major storms they are not, immediately anyway ) I would get cited, perhaps lose my license and face criminal charges (the latter I gather would be if a child was seriously injured/killed) Now, nine times out of ten I'm open and everything is fine, but that one time something happens...

But to answer the original post about fairness - here is the kicker - a few years ago I put it to my dcp's - I asked if they would rather me NOT charge for the snow days we *may* have each year (in reality it's about one or two days) but take away the week of vacation to off set that (at the time none of them were using the vacation) Every single one of my dcp's chose to keep things as is. I think that is the issue with the concept of "fairness" what you (general you) may think is fair, others may not. Then what?

I am not familiar with Primrose but know of other centers like it. A good friend of mine and her hubby are both doctors. When they toured centers, she told me she refused to consider any place that called itself a "school" because in her experience they took the school calendar schedule thing too far. she's in the ER, and he's in a private practice, both far from family they just don't have the luxury of snow days. They wound up getting a nanny from a foreign country (through a service) - very expensive but worth it for them.
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Old 02-16-2014, 04:07 PM
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Show me the employer who would 1) offer the employees unlimited paid sick days, and 2) agree with you that such an arrangement would be totally fair (he'll justify pay you AND a temp to get the work done!). You show me that, and then you can call me hypocritical.

And I employ a daycare CENTER because I have no intention of having a care provider who can't watch my child due to illness, let alone ask me to pay.
How about this....you pay your insurance company for "maybes" like: what if my house burns down if I get into an accident ,what if someone steals my wedding ring ,what if I get sick? now let us say that you have never ever ever had to use it or your deductible was going to not make it worth filing, or your claim was denied ? do you honestly think that you would get your money back for all the premiums you paid for the years? the answer will always be no.some people think that paying insurance company is paying for absolutely nothing because it's based on what if only? it's not really a service its not even a guarantee if you have a loss that you will have coverage.I think that's pretty darn comparable.many will argue that paying for insurance you do not get what you pay for those people are usually people whose claims were denied. Even whe sometimes it.seems that it shoud have been paid. Also I.saw nothing where a provider suggested they get unlimited amounts of.time off. To suggest that is off base and ridiculous and does make u sound ridiculously unrealistic. Sorry but save the drama for.ur mama. Don't like.the.like a policy? Find somewhere else.for.ur kids. Otherwise suck it.up and b grateful u have a provider who cares enough for the safety of all her kids more than u do for.ur own. Man, parents would.risk their and their.kids lives to be on the road.in precarious situations simply to make sure they "get what they paid for". Never mind the fact she takes excellent care of the kids all other.times. my goodness!!!!!
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Old 02-16-2014, 04:20 PM
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I empathize- I'm a parent living in Philadelphia and my daycare has closed a ton this season, while I still have to work (I'm in a field that cannot close for any reason- I supervise "essential personnel"). I get that I'm paying for a spot- not that I'm thrilled about it.

The only time I was really annoyed and felt that I deserved some sort of refund was when Sandy hit and the daycare was closed for a week and a half for power outages. That's a long time to be closed and we were struggling to find care, and I was even more annoyed when I found out the teachers didn't get paid for that time.
What do you propose the DCP should have done, take your children during power outages? She is not allowed. Sandy is an act of God, and no one's fault. Sometimes, the act of irritation shows ungratefulness. Perhaps, the act of God and the lack of power and heat affected more than just your family. For example: The food she bought FOR YOUR (and other's) child(ren) probably went bad and she'd have to rebuy it. Perhaps there was damage to the center where YOUR child goes, and so they had to pay for THAT instead of the teachers. People only look at what affects them, and not the bigger picture that maybe you didn't see, that affects EVERYONE. Consider your weekly fee a donation that made sure she could open after that week and a half by being able to go back to the store and replace all the food, to make sure that the power could come back on, to fix any damage that the storm caused and be grateful you weren't one who lost their home and have to rebuild---and didn't have flood insurance, or didn't have enough money for their deductible...you are not the only one a devastation like Sandy or Katrina affected, so stop acting like it was all about you. YOU were struggling to find care. Well, everyone else was struggling TOO.
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Old 02-16-2014, 09:58 PM
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I have a close friend who works for Primrose. She has informed me that full time workers get paid snow days, holidays and sick days. 80 per cent of her co workers are full time employees . She is happy for the most part working there and she says if she had a child she would send them. There are 2 teachers in the class and the children are always eating. She said it is high end but they are super picky about who works there. That is what you are getting for $ 50 a day, according to her.
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Old 02-16-2014, 11:13 PM
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This thread was a great read. I guess what I don't understand is how an obviously educated parent reads a contract, agrees to what's in the contract and then after the fact complains it's not fair? What's not fair? They stated this is how we do things and you agree by signing the contract. The end. If after reading the contract you felt their policies were not "fair" than that was the time to try to argue for some sort of policy change or to not agree and bring your child somewhere else. I guess the only part I find that is unfair is someone who agrees to my policies (by signing on the dotted line) then cries about what they have agreed to. There is a difference between what you don't like and what's fair. When I wake up at the crack of dawn and no one shows up till an hour and a half later, do I like it? NO. Is it fair? Yes. I agreed to be here. I guess the bottom line is if you knew going in that this was their policy then yes, it's fair. You might not like it, but it's fair. If they hid this from you and you never agreed to this than it's not fair.
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Old 02-17-2014, 06:07 AM
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What do you propose the DCP should have done, take your children during power outages? She is not allowed. Sandy is an act of God, and no one's fault. Sometimes, the act of irritation shows ungratefulness. Perhaps, the act of God and the lack of power and heat affected more than just your family. For example: The food she bought FOR YOUR (and other's) child(ren) probably went bad and she'd have to rebuy it. Perhaps there was damage to the center where YOUR child goes, and so they had to pay for THAT instead of the teachers. People only look at what affects them, and not the bigger picture that maybe you didn't see, that affects EVERYONE. Consider your weekly fee a donation that made sure she could open after that week and a half by being able to go back to the store and replace all the food, to make sure that the power could come back on, to fix any damage that the storm caused and be grateful you weren't one who lost their home and have to rebuild---and didn't have flood insurance, or didn't have enough money for their deductible...you are not the only one a devastation like Sandy or Katrina affected, so stop acting like it was all about you. YOU were struggling to find care. Well, everyone else was struggling TOO.
calm down- I said I was annoyed, but I paid the fee because I signed the contract. That's the main point of this thread. I didn't think it was fair that in a center with probably about 70 children all paying their fee with all the staff that cover their ratios plus subs (not doing the math to figure out how many staff that is) that didn't get paid that week that were all dealing with their own issue from the storm and whatnot just didn't seem cool. Add to that the fact that I had to call the corporate head of my center because I couldn't get ahold of my director or owner to let me know what was going on, but of course, that's a topic for another thread and it was a few years ago now.

TL/DR- calm down, pay your daycare, sorry to have offended
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Old 02-17-2014, 07:19 AM
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calm down- I said I was annoyed, but I paid the fee because I signed the contract. That's the main point of this thread. I didn't think it was fair that in a center with probably about 70 children all paying their fee with all the staff that cover their ratios plus subs (not doing the math to figure out how many staff that is) that didn't get paid that week that were all dealing with their own issue from the storm and whatnot just didn't seem cool. Add to that the fact that I had to call the corporate head of my center because I couldn't get ahold of my director or owner to let me know what was going on, but of course, that's a topic for another thread and it was a few years ago now.

TL/DR- calm down, pay your daycare, sorry to have offended
Honestly, I think that if they charged parents full tuition during that time, they should have paid their employees their wages as well. In fact, I would say that under any circumstances, if one is charging their customers, they should be paying their employees.
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Old 02-17-2014, 08:19 AM
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Honestly, I think that if they charged parents full tuition during that time, they should have paid their employees their wages as well. In fact, I would say that under any circumstances, if one is charging their customers, they should be paying their employees.
I agree.
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Old 02-17-2014, 08:32 AM
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This thread was a great read. I guess what I don't understand is how an obviously educated parent reads a contract, agrees to what's in the contract and then after the fact complains it's not fair? What's not fair? They stated this is how we do things and you agree by signing the contract. The end. If after reading the contract you felt their policies were not "fair" than that was the time to try to argue for some sort of policy change or to not agree and bring your child somewhere else. I guess the only part I find that is unfair is someone who agrees to my policies (by signing on the dotted line) then cries about what they have agreed to. There is a difference between what you don't like and what's fair. When I wake up at the crack of dawn and no one shows up till an hour and a half later, do I like it? NO. Is it fair? Yes. I agreed to be here. I guess the bottom line is if you knew going in that this was their policy then yes, it's fair. You might not like it, but it's fair. If they hid this from you and you never agreed to this than it's not.
Most people understand "no",.especially lawyers, but some just don't like being told "no". And if they can't get that "no" turned into a yes, they complain loudly and I'll bet that complaint contains the phrase "I'm a lawyer".
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Old 02-17-2014, 09:12 AM
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Most people understand "no",.especially lawyers, but some just don't like being told "no". And if they can't get that "no" turned into a yes, they complain loudly and I'll bet that complaint contains the phrase "I'm a lawyer".
LOL So true!

Bottom line: If it's in the contract and and the parent signs their child on agreeing to the terms of the contract, it's completely fair because you were told and agreed to the terms. It's not like it was sprung on you after-the-fact or you "didn't know". My biggest pet peeve was when parents complained and then played dumb!
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Old 02-17-2014, 11:03 PM
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Lol...

SnowdayMom should switch to the preschool chain I work for....we NEVER close. Snow days don't exist. I'm located in a Mid-Atlantic state that doesn't see a whole lot of snow, so when we do, its a big deal and there's usually a breakdown in plowing/salting. Buuuut, we are required to be there regardless.

Once, the police department demanded we close to prevent parents from endangering their kids lives by trying to drive to us. Yes, it actually took that.
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Old 02-17-2014, 11:22 PM
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Default Funny!

I had one dcp come in after two consecutive snow days in a row and say "wow! You must really LOVE snow days! You get paid two times for one day of work!" (I only watch teachers children and I do not charge them for summer break but I do require that they keep their children home with them when school is closed throughout the year. ie; spring break, Christmas break, snow days, etc..) She is referring to us having to make up these snow days at the end of the year and having to pay me for that. She was being rather passive aggressive.
I just smiled at her and said, "yep! I am ROLLING in the dough now!"
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  #93  
Old 02-18-2014, 04:38 PM
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What a great read. I am teetering on good read and stupid silly nonsense. All my forum buddies here good responses. The debate from Snowman.......eh, not so much. Its like the child that won't take NO for an answer so tries every angle until satisfied.

Bottom line is you pick and decide where to send your child to daycare. You sign the contract.

In order for me to run my childcare smoothly I charge no matter if the child is here or not for everything except if I have used my five sick days up in a year. I take Holidays off. I have two weeks paid vacation. I expect parents to have back up care. I work hard. Food is bought no matter if your child comes or not. I am paid little when all is said and done. I go above and beyond for my parents and especially the kiddo's. I am not a big center. I am a small family business. I have to depend upon a weekly anticipated income, in order to be able to do my job.

I feel it is fair to charge if you have to close down for weather. Safety trumps all. I rarely do. but.......if I had a meat head client, that didn't have enough common sense to keep off the roads in horrible weather then I would close in a heart beat. Your life is more important to me then it is you if you make a greedy choice to send your child to daycare in a horrible storm. You can't take back Dead- No debating that- It's a no brainer~

Your comparing apples to oranges.

If you want to fight for something fight for jobs for Americans that pay enough so that a choice can be made if they want to stay home with their children or make a choice to work. Fight for places of employment to have understanding of working parents and the need to take take time off for little ones for being sick, or daycare closures. Pick a fight that has more meaning then "unfair snow days"

Pay your provider well, treat your provider well, they are taking care of your most cherished possession. Respect your provider and know this person works extremely hard and long hours for little pay- Realize your provider spends more time with your child in the first few precious years of life then you do. Realize you have choices of who you send your child to and the contract you sign.

Suck it up buttercup- Life is not fair is many aspects. This is tiny in comparison of all the unfairness of the world we live in. Greater causes that a Lawyer that loves good debate could energize time with- Make it count.

I am really stuck on that suck it up buttercup.......love love love
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Old 02-26-2014, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by SnowDayMom View Post
Show me the employer who would 1) offer the employees unlimited paid sick days, and 2) agree with you that such an arrangement would be totally fair (he'll just pay you AND a temp to get the work done!). You show me that, and then you can call me hypocritical.

And I employ a daycare CENTER because I have no intention of having a care provider who can't watch my child due to illness, let alone ask me to pay.
I know I'm late to this thread but just came across it. I hate closing unless absolutely necessary, but i would never consider myself 'employed' by my clients. I run a business. Clients can choose to use my services or not (as I offer them), plain and simple. I do things for the best interest of my kiddos and have had parents that have been extremely happy over the years and run a 5 star daycare home, but I will not ever consider that I am employed by them. If I was, I would have the benefits for my hard work and education, which would include retirement plan, etc. I don't close for snow days since they have to travel to me and I know some parents don't get a choice in working, but if it might possibly put the kids in extra danger (such as not being able to get an ambulance here if something happens, or my old boiler can not keep it warm enough in here), then yes, I will occasionally close. Running a business, I make those decisions though and if my clients don't think it's fair because I am doing what I think is best overall, then they can find someone they think is 'fair.' Honestly I think what's 'fair' is relative.
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Old 03-03-2014, 12:28 PM
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Craftymissbeth....THAT is very interesting. Maybe that sorta actually helps me to understand it. I guess that's *if* my daycare used that formula to figure out their pricing, but if I choose to believe they did, then I can not feel so screwed anymore!

Sorry to hear about your water issue...OMG that kinda stuff STINKS because how many HOURS of your time did you spend just dealing with that?? You're lucky you got it sorted out.

And, hey, all you business owners out there, consider this:

This daycare I'm complaining about has another policy: Once per year you are allowed to take your child on vacation and NOT pay for that week at all.

I was so surprised to hear this. The daycare is expecting my child and they've held a spot in their school for my child and I've decided not to have my child attend. I actually EXPECT to have to pay in this scenario and they tell me I don't have to!

Honestly, I wish they'd scrap that policy entirely and instead just not charge me for snow days. Because on one hand I feel like I'm getting a benefit I don't even deserve, but on the other hand I feel like I'm getting screwed. Switch the two policies and I'm happy.

Besides, their vacation policy "punishes" families with less money and less ability to take vacation! If I'm in one of those families who don't get paid if I don't work (i.e. no paid vacation), then I might only go away on weekends and never take a week vacation. In that case I never get the BENEFIT of this policy, yet those families will also bear the worst burden on snow days. ('cause if they can't go to work, they don't get paid.)
The issue that the contract and policies are not made with YOU in mind (as in you personally and your own personal life situation). What you are missing here is that this is GROUP care. I can guarantee that there is no place or sitter that will do everything your way in order for you to feel that it is fair and ethical because it is not all about you.

No, life is not fair.

Nothing is ever fair.

If your biggest concern is having to be inconvenienced and pay for a few snow days a year, I would say that you have it pretty good. Instead of over analyzing on small portion of your daycare situation, perhaps it would do you good to count the positives of your daycare situation. All the services that they do provide and do benefit your family. You should come out with more positives than negatives and if you don't, time to find a new daycare.

You are looking at this in a mostly one sided way "what is best/convenient for me and my definition of fair" and not seeing that no matter what the daycare did, there will be some parent complaining about it and saying "thats not fair!".
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Old 03-03-2014, 12:35 PM
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Alright, I'm losing steam on this (finally), but I think I can find a *lil* bit more for one point.

Blandino, I get what you're saying, but I think it's a bad analogy. You're describing an employee on SALARY. My daycare is not on "salary" from me... What if you work at Macy's and you're not on salary, and you show up one day and Macy's is closed due to a power outage, I'm pretty certain Macy's would NOT pay you that day.

On the other hand, I DO pay by the week. It's not salary, but then it's actually not hourly either...so maybe this is some hybrid situation where there is a point in there somewhere... I'm not sure I have the energy left to ponder deeply (the only kinda pondering I know how to do) on this twist, but at least I can see from your post that it's not just black and white.

Blandino, though, you brought up a REALLY interesting point about bad weather. Part of what irks me is that the daycare center is closed when other businesses are open. That drives me crazy. My thinking was, "they don't have to bus the kids anywhere, so how do they justify closing?" But, I hadn't considered that you are RESPONSIBLE for getting the child help in an emergency situation, and so maybe that's a justification for closing when so many other establishments are open.

Now frankly, I'm not 100% sure it's a great argument, because maybe all you're legally responsible to do is call the police/firemen/ambulance and if they can't get to you, it's not your fault. (sorry, I'm thinking strictly about your liability, not whether or not that's a good idea or a "nice" way of thinking!! That's what we lawyers do...think about liability.) But, Blandino, it's a really good point worthy of further pondering...



There are some really great thinkers on here! (and clearly a lot of savvy business owners) So while I have your attention, I'm curious about your thoughts on another situation at my daycare:

This particular center has at least two "Teacher In-service Days" per school year. These are days when they are "closed" (but of course I have to pay) so that their teachers can train, clean, organize, decorate classrooms, etc. As you can imagine, I find this outrageous. I know, I know...you're surprised about that.

*If* they were a private school, I could see this happening. *If* I was paying them for their private kindergarten I can see sucking it up. Fine. But when my child is an infant, or a preschooler, or whatever, I can't see the justification around having a Teacher In-Service Day. My husband owns his own business--he doesn't "charge" his customers for training his staff, or for a special day of keeping up his offices and warehouses. Sure it's built-in to what he charges, as it should be, but there's not a special day when his customers all have to pony up $50 and don't get service in return because he's training his staff.

I'm starting to recognize why Primrose calls themselves Primrose SCHOOL. Because then they can say, "YOU, SnowDayMom, might see us as a daycare, but you're actually paying for private school for your infant (har har), so that's why we need a teacher in-service day, just like any other SCHOOL."

Also, you can probably see from this that the snow days are not the ONLY area I'm feeling a little taken advantage of here, when I'm already paying for an expensive place as it is (i.e. don't slip extra costs in too, please!). There's also a $50-75 "supply fee" I have to pay at the beginning of every school year. Grrrr.

I know I could change schools, but my hubby thinks it would be too disruptive for my lil girl, and he doesn't have the same sense of personal outrage around perceived "unfairness" as I do.

But within the next year I may "retire" from what I'm doing, and then I'll pull her out and watch her myself. Money will be tight, but then I'll have more free time to spend with my kids, and maybe put some of my energy toward helping others! (as one of your respondents suggested)
You ARE receiving a service for the teacher training.....your child is benefiting from staff that is trained, competent, confident, and up-to-date. The facility is cleaned, the rooms are organized, the staff is prepared adequately to provide excellent care for YOUR child. The staff is working that day, you are still receiving a service (not daycare, but a general benefit from the training).

And by the way, welcome to parenthood. School/childcare is frustrating no matter if you are using the services or providing the services. Don't kid yourself that the providers/teachers have all the benefits and parents are the ones with all the frustrations. Even "free" public education is enough for a parent to want to jump off the nearest bridge. If you put this much intensity on the issue of snow days, you are going to drive yourself insane when you get to kindergarten with your daughter......you will have even less control over the situation there, regardless of whether you public or private educate. Sounds like you need to consider homeschooling. or take a huge chill-pill before inflicting your intense nature on your daughter's future teachers. I say this in jest....sort of....
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  #97  
Old 03-06-2014, 09:36 AM
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Now that we've moved on to paid training days/in-service days....I'd like to add that in order for me to do my job and continue caring for your (general you) child I must attend xx amount of training hours per year.

I have to pay for these trainings out of pocket. Travel, meals and whatever else it entails. I also pay for these trainings with loss of personal time with MY family...so that I can continue to offer quality and legal care to client families.

I work 50-55 hours per week ON SITE and another 10 or so after hours and on weekends. Running errands, cleaning and keeping my environment up to code.

I can deduct some of those expenses and claim a little bit of my time (although, how do you place a price tag on loss of time with your own DH or child) but for all intents and purposes the IRS allows me a break in some of those costs/expenses.

I charge my families for days I am not open for business. It's not always about that particular day and who it is or isn't fair to. It's about the bigger picture.

I work MUCH longer days/weeks than my clients and when it's all said and done.... I make a small profit.

Not a ton, and certainly not the kind of money people who work in other fields that require the same training, degree, and/or knowledge.

I don't bring home the big bucks...I don't own a home on some tropical island where the sun shines all the time. I don't drive a giant SUV that has a gas tank bigger than my kitchen. I don't wear designer clothing and my purses do NOT say Coach or Dooney & Burke.

I live pay check to pay check and my only real plans for retirement is death or the lottery...which ever happens first.... Not because I don't want a retirement plan but because I can NOT afford one.

I have too many parents complaining about having to pay a few dollars more when it snows so that they can feel like it is fair to them.

Like I said in my previous post.....I know you want fair. I know you are looking for justification but honestly, it isn't about fair and it isn't about what you or me or anyone else thinks is morally and/or ethically right or wrong.

It's about the big picture. It's about being happy OVERALL with the care you receive....even if that care is temporarily unavailable when it snows....

If you are genuinely happy with the services you receive, let it go. Pay for the few extra days that winter is hard on folks. Pay for the snow days and let it roll off your back because technically there are worse things going on in the world of early childhood and child care that ARE worthy of this kind of attention and discussion.

Be happy that you have a place you can trust 100% with the care of your child. If paying for a snow day here and there helps your provider stay in business and continue running in the black....great!

If collecting fees for snow days is a big money maker then your daycare has stumbled upon a gold mine and more power to them because we all know (atleast those of us on the providing end) this profession is NOT a gold mine....

Most of the providers I know here and in real life would qualify for government assistance.

So all in all, thank you for the parent perspective. Thank you for the good debate (I too love a good one ) but I am signing off this thread by offering you this.

Life is a give and take. Sometimes we have to be the givers. If it paints a better, prettier picture in the grand scheme of it all, it's all good.

Even if it isn't fair at the moment.
Yes, Yes Yes!
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Old 03-06-2014, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverSabre25 View Post
There's something I'm noticing here that I think plays a big role in how both sides are viewing this issue.

Parent (Can you give yourself a user name there, so we can refer to you? ), you are using example from services that are pay-as-you-go: the deli, the tanning salon, etc.
The daycare providers tend to use examples that are monthly subscriptions, like cable, rent, etc.

Parent, you are viewing your daycare as a pay-as-you-go service, but WE tend to see ourselves as subscribe-for-the-week/month/whatever. There is a disconnect here between how YOU are viewing the service and how WE are viewing it.

Furthermore, I am familiar with the Primrose chain and the are very much more in line with a private school than with a regular ol' daycare center. As such, they (and many places like them) choose to (or may be required to, I'm not sure) follow the local public schools when it comes to weather related closures, holidays, etc.

If you choose to view your center as a school, and your "$50/day" as TUITION at a PRIVATE ACADEMY--do you still feel that it is unfair? If you choose to send your child to Catholic school for elementary, will you still consider it unfair that you still have to pay the same tuition every month, regardless of how many snow days there are?
This

I think the analogy would be better served with this:

My power goes out and I can't use my Direct TV. I want Direct TV to credit me for the days my power goes out.

Will they?

Nope

If a person pays 300 bucks a month for a parking spot and when they get there the road is blocked off because a water main breaks on the street in front of the entry... making it unsafe for the cars to gain entry into the parking garage should the person get a credit for that day?

NOPE


I always feel it is wonderful when Centers can close and not have staff expenses. If they can wiggle 5-7 days a year for snow days then boo Yah for them.

It gives them a chance to take the money and build a nest egg for unforeseen expenses. They operate on a thin margin and something like snow days helps their bottom line a lot.

As far as the parent goes... of course they would like to not pay for the day. I think it's VERY rare that parents actually find care givers for hire on days the weather is so bad the day care and schools close. I think that excuse that they have to pay someone else is actually pretty slim.

Parents need to educate themselves on these kinds of financial disagreements and look specifically for child care that meets their money belief system as well as their child care belief system. If the parent feels it is unethical to charge for those days then they should think clearly the center is unethical in every way and not be involved in their business.

It's the ever ongoing disagreement of what the parents are paying for. Parents for the most part want pay as you go... only for the days used... type of payment. MOST successful child care businesses don't operate on that model UNLESS they charge about 1.25 to 1.5 X the actual rate they need per day per day to compensate for the unused days. This is what drop in center do. If their average hourly rate is 4 bucks an hour for a ten hour a day kid who is five days a week they charge 6 bucks an hour for drop in for the same slot.
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Old 03-06-2014, 05:15 PM
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This


Parents need to educate themselves on these kinds of financial disagreements and look specifically for child care that meets their money belief system as well as their child care belief system. If the parent feels it is unethical to charge for those days then they should think clearly the center is unethical in every way and not be involved in their business.
THIS !!!


But the only childcare they are going to find to fit that kind of money belief system, is probably going to be unlicensed daycare, a SAHM "sitter", a sitter that comes to your home, or someone with no backbone at all. In those scenarios , the care is going to either be illegal, low quality, expensive (as in a paying a private sitter $20.00/hr), or unprofessional. They want to have their cake and eat it too.
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Old 03-07-2014, 12:08 PM
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THIS !!!


But the only childcare they are going to find to fit that kind of money belief system, is probably going to be unlicensed daycare, a SAHM "sitter", a sitter that comes to your home, or someone with no backbone at all. In those scenarios , the care is going to either be illegal, low quality, expensive (as in a paying a private sitter $20.00/hr), or unprofessional. They want to have their cake and eat it too.
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