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  #1  
Old 12-06-2017, 06:19 PM
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Default Why Are People So Afraid Of Vinegar?

This morning at work, I went to clean up a table one of the three-year-olds made a HUGE mess at while eating (and playing with) his breakfast.

Now, despite state regulations requiring a two-step cleaning procedure for eating and diapering surfaces, there is NO soap and water solution available in the center I work at. So, I saw on the top of the refrigerator a bottle labeled "Multisurface Cleaner." I put some on the table (I had to pour it out since the trigger on the spray bottle was broken) and realized that it was vinegar.

One of my coworkers flipped out at me saying that the vinegar was for the carpets and that they use dish detergent to clean the tables. I pointed out that the bottle didn't say it was 'carpet cleaner'- nor was it clear that they had recycled the bottle to be used for a vinegar/water solution.

I'm a little annoyed that she got mad at me for using the 'wrong' bottle when I simply followed the label ON the bottle, and it is not my fault that we do not have properly labeled (working) bottles of both soap and water and bleach and water solutions.

But I really don't understand why she was so freaked out about me using vinegar on the surfaces the kids eat off of. My old boss when I worked as a babysitter at a gym was the same way. If I used the vinegar/water solution to clean in the babysitting room, she freaked. (I was only allowed to use vinegar when mixed with the lavender scented cleaner). Sure, it's not the most pleasant smell, but they both act like I'm using toxic cleaners around children. Like they're going to be poisoned by the fumes.

I'd be more concerned about the too-strong bleach solution used in the diaper changing area than vinegar.

I just don't get it. Why are people so afraid of vinegar?
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Old 12-06-2017, 06:24 PM
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I'm not! I use a vinegar solution to clean pretty much every surface in my house. I use hydrogen peroxide, vinegar, lemon, ect. Besides the smell, i dont understand why someone would be anti vinegar.
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Old 12-07-2017, 03:33 AM
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Vinegar is not an approved disinfectant to prevent disease transmission. Community acquired diseases are not something to play around with. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17632670

"Children cared for at daycare or in preschool education exhibit a two to three times greater risk of acquiring infections, which impacts both on individual health and on the dissemination of diseases through the community."
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Old 12-07-2017, 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
Vinegar is not an approved disinfectant to prevent disease transmission. Community acquired diseases are not something to play around with. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17632670

"Children cared for at daycare or in preschool education exhibit a two to three times greater risk of acquiring infections, which impacts both on individual health and on the dissemination of diseases through the community."


Also the tables they are eating should probably be cleaned with the bleach solution or other approved disinfectant. I know we are required to use our bleach spray here.
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Old 12-07-2017, 04:20 AM
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Oh I totally get that, and I DID use bleach on the tables afterwards. However, our state requires a two-step procedure beginning with using soap and water. I had no idea the one bottle contained vinegar as it was a bottle labeled "Multi-surface Cleaner". I was just trying to do step-one. My co-worker acted as if the vinegar itself was toxic.
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Old 12-07-2017, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Lissa Kristine View Post
Oh I totally get that, and I DID use bleach on the tables afterwards. However, our state requires a two-step procedure beginning with using soap and water. I had no idea the one bottle contained vinegar as it was a bottle labeled "Multi-surface Cleaner". I was just trying to do step-one. My co-worker acted as if the vinegar itself was toxic.
Vinegar also is not a surfactant so will not remove oils effectively.
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Old 12-07-2017, 09:43 AM
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Vinegar smells bad and if you are sensitive to it, it can make you feel sick. At least it does for me. I had a cleaning lady come clean my house once using vinegar. Not good!

Like others have said it is not a good cleaning solution no matter how many “green” people say it is. It does nothing besides clean smudge off glass and just makes everything smell. Its weird that it was labeled as a “multi surface cleaner”.
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Old 12-07-2017, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
Vinegar is not an approved disinfectant to prevent disease transmission. Community acquired diseases are not something to play around with. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17632670

"Children cared for at daycare or in preschool education exhibit a two to three times greater risk of acquiring infections, which impacts both on individual health and on the dissemination of diseases through the community."


I would be concerned about the mislabeled bottle--this time it was vinegar, next time it might be toxic. It's a topic that is preached about a lot.
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Old 12-07-2017, 10:12 AM
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I am more concerned with the mis labeled bottle.

You need a new job. I would report these incidents, too.
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Old 12-07-2017, 10:16 AM
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The smell of vinegar dissipates quickly. If you don't have soapy water available to sanitize with first and you have no choice then it will work in a pinch. It's a chemical-free way to remove dirt and grime. If no soap is available then it's better to use that than nothing before using the bleach/water solution.

I use vinegar for cleaning a whole bunch of stuff first before I use soap and water. Windows, mirrors, my dishwasher, as dishwasher drying agent (I called my manufacturer first to make sure it was safe for my machine), carpet, rugs, detergent residue from towels, my oven and stove (it's a great degreaser when you mix it with baking soda and vegetable oil). It's just not a common thing for people to use for cleaning so people get weirded out by it.
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Old 12-07-2017, 10:27 AM
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I don't use it a cleaner but I'm more concerned about a mislabeled cleaning bottle. Especially since you have a bleach spray also. Bleach mixed with anything base can be really bad. Window cleaners and odor neutralizers are two things that can cause major reactions with bleach even in small amounts.
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Old 12-07-2017, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa View Post
The smell of vinegar dissipates quickly. If you don't have soapy water available to sanitize with first and you have no choice then it will work in a pinch. It's a chemical-free way to remove dirt and grime. If no soap is available then it's better to use that than nothing before using the bleach/water solution.

I use vinegar for cleaning a whole bunch of stuff first before I use soap and water. Windows, mirrors, my dishwasher, as dishwasher drying agent (I called my manufacturer first to make sure it was safe for my machine), carpet, rugs, detergent residue from towels, my oven and stove (it's a great degreaser when you mix it with baking soda and vegetable oil). It's just not a common thing for people to use for cleaning so people get weirded out by it.
I do use it commonly--since it's an acid, it binds with lime (which is alkaline) and will clean some things. But other chemicals, such as soap, bind better with actual dirt or grease.

We're not allowed to use it as a sanitizer, so I'm assuming it doesn't deal as well with bacteria, whereas the bleach spray will actually sanitize.

I once knew of a guy who was a chemist or something and he was producing his own cleaning liquids and was trying to start an MLM cleaning company. He explained the different chemical types for cleaning. It was kinda interesting--there were really only a few types: Solvent (orange, goo gone type stuff), acid, detergents, and maybe a few others.
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Old 12-07-2017, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveA View Post
I don't use it a cleaner but I'm more concerned about a mislabeled cleaning bottle. Especially since you have a bleach spray also. Bleach mixed with anything base can be really bad. Window cleaners and odor neutralizers are two things that can cause major reactions with bleach even in small amounts.
I agree with this. I'd be concerned if the daycare staff is more worried about me using vinegar to clean vs a mislabeled cleaning bottle. To me is says that the staff doesn't care that it's mislabeled.
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Old 12-07-2017, 10:53 AM
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https://www.mnn.com/health/healthy-s...-the-right-way
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Old 12-07-2017, 10:56 AM
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We're not allowed to use it as a sanitizer, so I'm assuming it doesn't deal as well with bacteria, whereas the bleach spray will actually sanitize.
I think maybe you have the two mixed up?

To sanitize is to clean (as in dirt etc), to disinfect is to kill infection (germs, bacteria and viruses).
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Old 12-07-2017, 11:07 AM
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Again, I thought it was an all-purpose cleaner- not vinegar. I was using it to get the visible mess off of the table before going over with bleach and water like the state says we are to do.

I wasn't using it to disinfect. There was a sticky mess of chocolate Cheerios and milk on the table that I was cleaning up.
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Old 12-07-2017, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa View Post
I think maybe you have the two mixed up?

To sanitize is to clean (as in dirt etc), to disinfect is to kill infection (germs, bacteria and viruses).
Actually, to sanitize is to "reduce germs to a safe level" as opposed to sterilizing, which is to basically destroy all microbes. Cleaning is just to remove dirt.

The two-step process is to clean (remove dirt) and sanitize (to reduce germs to a safe level).

I looked up our state definitions, and they do have a way to use vinegar as a sanitizer: Warm it to 150 degrees, spray while still warm, and let it sit for one minute.

"Surfaces must be clean before they are sanitized, because surfaces cannot be effectively sanitized unless they are first
clean.
If used as specified by the manufacturer, any product that has anufacturer instructions for how to use it as a sanitizer will be accepted as a sanitizing solution.

Although not required by licensing, many providers choose to sanitize with a bleach solution. An effective sanitizing solution can be made by mixing 1⁄2 tablespoon of liquid chlorine bleach in 1 gallon of water, or 1⁄2 scant teaspoon of bleach in 1 quart of water, and allowing it to sit on the surface to be sanitized for at least 2 minutes before rinsing or wiping. According to the manufacturer, after 24 hours the bleach mixture loses its ability to sanitize. However, bleach water may be kept longer than 24 hours if the provider tests the sanitizer with a test strip and the test strip indicates the bleach water registers at least 50
parts per million on the strip. CFOC, 3rd Ed. Appendix J.

When the manufacturer of a disinfecting product lists several times for a solution to be left on a surface for disinfecting, such as Quat, accept the shortest time because disinfecting is stronger than sanitizing.
If operated according to the manufacturer’s instructions, a steam cleaner may be used to meet the requirement for both cleaning and sanitizing.

Peroxide air filtration systems clean the air of many viruses and germs but do not clean and sanitize surfaces. For this reason, air filtration systems are not a substitute for cleaning and sanitizing toys and equipment.

When providers choose to use a household product they must provide documentation and instructions showing that the solution is an effective sanitizer. The instructions must be followed and must come from a reputable source such as a university or government agency.

For example, a solution of 5% white distilled vinegar, when heated to 150 degrees, sprayed on a surface while still warm, and allowed to sit for 1 minute, is an effective sanitizer.
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Old 12-14-2017, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom2Two View Post
Actually, to sanitize is to "reduce germs to a safe level" as opposed to sterilizing, which is to basically destroy all microbes. Cleaning is just to remove dirt.

The two-step process is to clean (remove dirt) and sanitize (to reduce germs to a safe level).

I looked up our state definitions, and they do have a way to use vinegar as a sanitizer: Warm it to 150 degrees, spray while still warm, and let it sit for one minute.

"Surfaces must be clean before they are sanitized, because surfaces cannot be effectively sanitized unless they are first
clean.
If used as specified by the manufacturer, any product that has anufacturer instructions for how to use it as a sanitizer will be accepted as a sanitizing solution.

Although not required by licensing, many providers choose to sanitize with a bleach solution. An effective sanitizing solution can be made by mixing 1⁄2 tablespoon of liquid chlorine bleach in 1 gallon of water, or 1⁄2 scant teaspoon of bleach in 1 quart of water, and allowing it to sit on the surface to be sanitized for at least 2 minutes before rinsing or wiping. According to the manufacturer, after 24 hours the bleach mixture loses its ability to sanitize. However, bleach water may be kept longer than 24 hours if the provider tests the sanitizer with a test strip and the test strip indicates the bleach water registers at least 50
parts per million on the strip. CFOC, 3rd Ed. Appendix J.

When the manufacturer of a disinfecting product lists several times for a solution to be left on a surface for disinfecting, such as Quat, accept the shortest time because disinfecting is stronger than sanitizing.
If operated according to the manufacturer’s instructions, a steam cleaner may be used to meet the requirement for both cleaning and sanitizing.

Peroxide air filtration systems clean the air of many viruses and germs but do not clean and sanitize surfaces. For this reason, air filtration systems are not a substitute for cleaning and sanitizing toys and equipment.

When providers choose to use a household product they must provide documentation and instructions showing that the solution is an effective sanitizer. The instructions must be followed and must come from a reputable source such as a university or government agency.

For example, a solution of 5% white distilled vinegar, when heated to 150 degrees, sprayed on a surface while still warm, and allowed to sit for 1 minute, is an effective sanitizer.
Gotcha, in my state it's different. We don't have specific cleaning protocols for family child care, just centers.
The workshops that I've been to just say to disinfect which requires bleach/water solution and sanitizing doesn't require any special cleanser, just soap and water.
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