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  #1  
Old 12-17-2017, 05:37 PM
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Default Breastfeeding Question

I have a 3 month old dcb that is strictly breastfed. HIs mom said that the lactation person and her doctor said that he should be eating 1 to 1.5 ounces of breastmilk for every hour. So if he eats every 3 hours it would be a bottle of 3 to 4 1/2 ounces of milk. He seems like he wants way more than that. That seems like very little imo. Does anyone have experience in that? I did not breastfeed my 2 kids. On formula though at that age, we fed more than that at a time and therefore they could go longer between feedings.
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Old 12-17-2017, 06:20 PM
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Not an expert, but did breastfeed. I would take into consideration the total amount of ounces he's getting in 24 hours, as well as, his temperment. The lactaton people will tell the mom: "You need to educate the daycare that this is all he needs. They will push for more ounces, but you have to educate them."

Some mom's will produce enough to provide more if you request it. Some moms will struggle with those 10-12 ounces a day to give the provider. Those moms will feel put in the middle and helpless.

I was the type that struggled to produce more. With dd those 3 ounce bottles were plenty, she did great. With ds he screamed for more. I listened to the lactation "experts" and insisted to my provider that he did not need more, and there had to be another way to calm him. Afterall, he did not have this problem when he was with me. When I finally caved and started supplementing, he was suddenly a different baby for my provider and I felt soooo guilty for not doing it sooner.

So moral of the story, is that it could very well be enough. And if it's not, don't be surprised if mom resists at first. Be gentle, but insistent of this is the case.
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Old 12-17-2017, 06:59 PM
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So she is going to send between 9 to 13.5 ounces a day. He's here from 7:30 to 3:45. He's been eating more than that here now and feeding every 3 hours. His temperment is good when he's full but when he's hungry he screams. So now I"m going to give him less food but she wants me to do the pace feeding method she said. Where you give him 1/2, then burp him for 5 to 10 minutes and then feed him the rest. That way his brain can know he's full. Because i don't have any other children to sit there for that length of time to do a bottle. She's going to talk to the doctor on the 29th to see about giving him really watery cereal when he turns 4 months. oi
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Old 12-17-2017, 07:11 PM
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Why not just supplement with formula and do bigger bottles instead a cereal filler? Is the cereal more beneficial in some way? (Not meant to sound smarty, I'm genuinely curious.)
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Old 12-17-2017, 07:23 PM
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I breastfed two babies ad feeding every 3 hours is something I didn’t do until later. Maybe start feeding him every two hours instead? He might be getting over hungry and then over eating at the feed time. I would also ask for more milk. I breastfed for as long as I needed to so there is no way I know how many ounces my kids got but they both only fed for 5-10 minutes at each feed.
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Old 12-17-2017, 07:25 PM
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Why not just supplement with formula and do bigger bottles instead a cereal filler? Is the cereal more beneficial in some way? (Not meant to sound smarty, I'm genuinely curious.)
She wants to do breastmilk exclusively for 1 year, no formula.
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Old 12-17-2017, 07:26 PM
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I breastfed two babies ad feeding every 3 hours is something I didn’t do until later. Maybe start feeding him every two hours instead? He might be getting over hungry and then over eating at the feed time. I would also ask for more milk. I breastfed for as long as I needed to so there is no way I know how many ounces my kids got but they both only fed for 5-10 minutes at each feed.
She told me he feeds for 45 minutes on each side. So you telling me he's only getting 3 to 4 ounces in that time? (not you, her lol)
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Old 12-17-2017, 09:07 PM
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Look up paced feeding. 1 1/2 ounces per hour is correct. The calorie content of her milk will change as he grows. If you can pace feed during the day, he’ll cluster feed with mom to make up for it.

Supplementing with formula isn’t the end of the world, but it’s also not ideal.

Hold baby VERY upright when feeding to slow the flow, and burp after every ounce. Breastmilk is very thin and they can easily gulp it all down so fast that their brain doesn’t register that they are full. If paced feeding doesn’t work, that means his belly has been stretched out because he’s getting more than that per nursing session and she’ll need to figure out how to pump a bit more or supplement. He doesn’t actually NEED more, but an empty tummy is miserable to a baby and that’s not fair to expect him to live like that.
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Old 12-18-2017, 07:52 AM
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She wants to do breastmilk exclusively for 1 year, no formula.
I find that fascinating. That one thing doesn't "count" toward her being able to say "Oh yes, we breastfed exclusively" and another does. Either way she's supplementing. And if that's the only reason, it sounds like this more about her than him, imo.
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Old 12-18-2017, 08:00 AM
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I find that fascinating. That one thing doesn't "count" toward her being able to say "Oh yes, we breastfed exclusively" and another does. Either way she's supplementing. And if that's the only reason, it sounds like this more about her than him, imo.
You got that right! She has 1st time momitis so bad. So I gave him bottle this morning. A total of 4 ounces. Halfway through I stopped and took my time changing him and we went back to the bottle. He got done with that and screamed. He was still hungry. I got a bit more from another bag of breastmilk that she got and now he's happy. It's just not enough for him that she wants to do.
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Old 12-19-2017, 08:07 AM
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She might be worried about “closed gut”. Basically, once the baby eats something beside breastmilk they no longer have a “closed system” and they are more susceptible to intestinal illness. Exclusively breastfeeding and delaying solids are part of this. BUT that’s not always possible when you have to leave your children with a caregiver, especially one that’s caring for multiple children.
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Old 12-19-2017, 10:42 AM
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I tell parents that I feed on demand. So they must provide enough to feed their baby until they are full. I do not limit them; a baby will stop eating when they are no longer hungry! My brother learned this the hard way with his son, they followed what a book said and wouldnt give their baby anymore then what the book said. So of course they were waking up a million times a night because of a crabby baby
Once they finally stopped listening to all the “experts” ..they got a full nights sleep.
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Old 12-19-2017, 10:59 AM
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I tell parents that I feed on demand. So they must provide enough to feed their baby until they are full. I do not limit them; a baby will stop eating when they are no longer hungry! My brother learned this the hard way with his son, they followed what a book said and wouldnt give their baby anymore then what the book said. So of course they were waking up a million times a night because of a crabby baby
Once they finally stopped listening to all the “experts” ..they got a full nights sleep.
Exactly! They are up literally all night. He eats every 3 hours and it takes her 45 minutes to feed. He's 4 months old next week. My kids were sleeping 10 to 6 by that age.
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Old 12-20-2017, 09:35 AM
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Breast milk digests much faster than formula so breastfed babies typically don't "sleep thru the night" like formula babies. It's very common for breastfed babies to night nurse through their entire first year of life. This is normal and parents shouldn't be shamed for how well their child sleeps "thru the night." We weren't wired that way to begin with (from a survival standpoint.) Anyways...
Pace feeding is CRUCIAL in breastfed babies so their body has time to tell their mind they are full (this can take up to 20 mins!) Babies who overeat typically show the same signs of hunger...crying from pain (too full, rather than enpty) and inconsolable. They know they have a belly ache but not why (too full.) Therefore, they can be willing to take another bottle of milk, thinking the belly pains are from being hungry. This leads to a stretched out stomach and makes for a bad cycle of eating too much.
If baby is fed from the breast at home and only gets a bottle at daycare and the bottles haven't been pace fed, chances are the stomach is already stretched a little. It might take a couple weeks of pace feeding and being a little fussy afterwards to help shrink the stomach back to its appropriate size. Since breast milk changes in macros and calories, the 1 to 1.5 oz per hour rule stands on good measure.
As a "crunchy" mom (who is still nursing my 19 month old) it was also important to me that my daughter did not get any "supplementing" for the first year as well (I won't go into all the 'whys' because a mother's wishes should be respected no matter why (as long as no harm is done.)) As long as baby is growing properly and having adequate diapers there is no need to supplement. I trusted my body that it would do what it was made to do...I think we forget what our bodies are meant for and just how capable and amazing they are.
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Old 12-20-2017, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by mabell View Post
Breast milk digests much faster than formula so breastfed babies typically don't "sleep thru the night" like formula babies. It's very common for breastfed babies to night nurse through their entire first year of life. This is normal and parents shouldn't be shamed for how well their child sleeps "thru the night." We weren't wired that way to begin with (from a survival standpoint.) Anyways...
Pace feeding is CRUCIAL in breastfed babies so their body has time to tell their mind they are full (this can take up to 20 mins!) Babies who overeat typically show the same signs of hunger...crying from pain (too full, rather than enpty) and inconsolable. They know they have a belly ache but not why (too full.) Therefore, they can be willing to take another bottle of milk, thinking the belly pains are from being hungry. This leads to a stretched out stomach and makes for a bad cycle of eating too much.
If baby is fed from the breast at home and only gets a bottle at daycare and the bottles haven't been pace fed, chances are the stomach is already stretched a little. It might take a couple weeks of pace feeding and being a little fussy afterwards to help shrink the stomach back to its appropriate size. Since breast milk changes in macros and calories, the 1 to 1.5 oz per hour rule stands on good measure.
As a "crunchy" mom (who is still nursing my 19 month old) it was also important to me that my daughter did not get any "supplementing" for the first year as well (I won't go into all the 'whys' because a mother's wishes should be respected no matter why (as long as no harm is done.)) As long as baby is growing properly and having adequate diapers there is no need to supplement. I trusted my body that it would do what it was made to do...I think we forget what our bodies are meant for and just how capable and amazing they are.
While this is all good and true - none of this takes into account that a care provider may not have 20 minutes to focus on feeding one child or considers the impact a fussy child can have on the group as a whole.

I respect every parents right to decide what's best for their child, but if they are choosing daycare then they have to also be flexible when it comes to preparing their child for a smooth and successful day at daycare
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Old 12-20-2017, 12:21 PM
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While this is all good and true - none of this takes into account that a care provider may not have 20 minutes to focus on feeding one child or considers the impact a fussy child can have on the group as a whole.

I respect every parents right to decide what's best for their child, but if they are choosing daycare then they have to also be flexible when it comes to preparing their child for a smooth and successful day at daycare
Does anyone on here have any good stories of breastfed babies that aren't fussy or difficult during the day? Every single ebf baby I have had has been extremely difficult. They sleep very little and are much crankier. Mom's d ont see that side because they just nurse when they are fussy.
I have 4 in care. 2 are formula and 2 aren't. The other two are constantly crying when put down for nap. They are hardly content unless being held . They think cribs are evil.
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Old 12-20-2017, 12:40 PM
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I tell parents that I feed on demand. So they must provide enough to feed their baby until they are full. I do not limit them; a baby will stop eating when they are no longer hungry! My brother learned this the hard way with his son, they followed what a book said and wouldnt give their baby anymore then what the book said. So of course they were waking up a million times a night because of a crabby baby
Once they finally stopped listening to all the “experts” ..they got a full nights sleep.


Here licensing requires us to feed by demand. But I would want to wait 2 hours between feeds.

My infant mom wasn't sending quite enough at one point, but she works close and told me to call if it's not enough.

You CAN'T accept this child with not enough ebm and not allowed to feed anything else.

Pumping moms lose their milk more easily than nursing moms. Pumping doesn't clear out their milk ducts as well.

Supplementing with formula will reduce some of the benefits of bfing, but what are the choices here?

I personally wouldn't agree to just ebm til one year of age. At nine months or whatever, I want to start the child self-feeding. It makes my job easier. But I guess I might agree to keep bottle feeding at my higher infant rate.
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Old 12-20-2017, 01:41 PM
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People normally say "exclusively breastfed" to mean no formula or milk...they still eat foods like any other infant.
I think breastfed babies seem to get held a little more than formula babies (possibly creating more of a "need to be held" for them) but babies are babies. I've had experience with great bf and formula infants...and fussy bf and formula infants...saying one is fussy just because the way they are fed is silly. It's more likely due to patenting choices (cosleeping and gentle parenting seem to be practiced by those who breastfeed more than those who formula feed) but that shouldn't be a blanket statement.
If you, as a provider, cannot commit to pace feeding a bf baby like the parents have requested, maybe you should bring it up to the parents and let them decide if your care is a good fit for their child. Overfeeding infants has been linked to childhood obesity...which leads to multiple other lifelong health issues. I would never want to be responsible for that. The little 5 minute intervals of feeding between at least 5 minute breaks is simple enough for me. It all depends on your group and how you run thing though.
In the end, I think the parent should get final say over what is important to them.
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Old 12-20-2017, 01:54 PM
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People normally say "exclusively breastfed" to mean no formula or milk...they still eat foods like any other infant.
I think breastfed babies seem to get held a little more than formula babies (possibly creating more of a "need to be held" for them) but babies are babies. I've had experience with great bf and formula infants...and fussy bf and formula infants...saying one is fussy just because the way they are fed is silly. It's more likely due to patenting choices (cosleeping and gentle parenting seem to be practiced by those who breastfeed more than those who formula feed) but that shouldn't be a blanket statement.
If you, as a provider, cannot commit to pace feeding a bf baby like the parents have requested, maybe you should bring it up to the parents and let them decide if your care is a good fit for their child. Overfeeding infants has been linked to childhood obesity...which leads to multiple other lifelong health issues. I would never want to be responsible for that. The little 5 minute intervals of feeding between at least 5 minute breaks is simple enough for me. It all depends on your group and how you run thing though.
In the end, I think the parent should get final say over what is important to them.
This is true! I was always up front about what I could and couldn't do for parents, and asked them for specifics on what they're looking for in a caregiver. This saved a lot of headaches for both parents and I, I think it's all about being on the same page!

Again, I'm not saying one way is right or wrong, or trying to "shame" a parent for the decisions they make. I'm just saying there has to be an open dialogue in terms of expectations and and what is going to best serve the child during their day.

the reality for many providers is that some parents form this ridged idea of how they are going to parent, but then go off to work for 8 hours a day, leaving the child and provider to deal with the consequences when that plan doesn't really work.
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Old 12-20-2017, 02:28 PM
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Does anyone on here have any good stories of breastfed babies that aren't fussy or difficult during the day? Every single ebf baby I have had has been extremely difficult. They sleep very little and are much crankier. Mom's d ont see that side because they just nurse when they are fussy.
I have 4 in care. 2 are formula and 2 aren't. The other two are constantly crying when put down for nap. They are hardly content unless being held . They think cribs are evil.
My last BF baby, dcm was a milk machine! She sent enough more than enough milk and baby was happy. I did have to sleep train the little booger though. Once we got past that she was super easy.
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Old 12-20-2017, 02:34 PM
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This is true! I was always up front about what I could and couldn't do for parents, and asked them for specifics on what they're looking for in a caregiver. This saved a lot of headaches for both parents and I, I think it's all about being on the same page!

Again, I'm not saying one way is right or wrong, or trying to "shame" a parent for the decisions they make. I'm just saying there has to be an open dialogue in terms of expectations and and what is going to best serve the child during their day.

the reality for many providers is that some parents form this ridged idea of how they are going to parent, but then go off to work for 8 hours a day, leaving the child and provider to deal with the consequences when that plan doesn't really work.
THIS! And I am saying this as a mom who bf and had that infant that needed just a little more. BUT the only dialogue I got from the lactation community was that I needed to better educate my provider, that there was no reason "not enough milk" was the issue. My provider tried everything and in the end what gave everyone peace were the extra 2 ounces added to the bottle he was already getting.

I'm not saying everyone should supplement, but everyone in the situation (provider included) needs to be able to openly discuss all options.
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Old 12-20-2017, 04:18 PM
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I do want it known that I am not shaming this mom at all. I do think it's wrong though what she's doing. She told me today that since he is up nearly the entire night, she has taken to having him in bed with her and he feeds. She said, I really don't know how much he's getting because he falls asleep during feeding and so does she. So what the heck, does he just hang off her all night and eat when he wants? I'm sorry, but I do not understand or agree with that at all for multiple reasons. Another thing is, breastfed or formula fed, don't you think he should gradually be getting more per feeding than he did a month ago? Isn't that just normal human nutrition? If he is growing and is older if he's not given more food to compensate for that, then he is going to be hungry and crabby.
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Old 12-20-2017, 05:18 PM
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I know the two babies I have in care right now it is not the supply that is the issue. Mom's send in plenty of milk. I think it is how they are taken care of at home. I suspect they both sleep with mom as it is easier to feed and they don't have to get up and feed them. They refuse to sleep in cribs during the day. Some days are fine and they aren't as fussy. Some days all they do is cry which I believe is from being tired.my other two infants sleep just fine and are formula fed and do not sleep with mom at night. We cannot replicate that in care in no shape or form.
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Old 12-20-2017, 08:08 PM
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Does anyone on here have any good stories of breastfed babies that aren't fussy or difficult during the day? Every single ebf baby I have had has been extremely difficult. They sleep very little and are much crankier. Mom's d ont see that side because they just nurse when they are fussy.
I have 4 in care. 2 are formula and 2 aren't. The other two are constantly crying when put down for nap. They are hardly content unless being held . They think cribs are evil.
I've had ALL EBF babies for many years... many exclusive until 9 months. Right now my happiest babe is 5 months and has no issues just taking a bottle of breast milk... it's when they are teething that it's an issue because they want the crackers & other stuff the older babes get
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Old 12-21-2017, 04:53 AM
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Does anyone on here have any good stories of breastfed babies that aren't fussy or difficult during the day? Every single ebf baby I have had has been extremely difficult. They sleep very little and are much crankier. Mom's d ont see that side because they just nurse when they are fussy.
I have 4 in care. 2 are formula and 2 aren't. The other two are constantly crying when put down for nap. They are hardly content unless being held . They think cribs are evil.
I've taken care of both my niece & nephew while they were exclusively breastfed. I've had great experiences with both. However, I feed on demand & don't worry about time or number of ounces. I follow baby's lead. They typically develop their own schedule pretty quickly. Right now the 4 mo eats about every 2 hours when awake & usually right about 3 oz, but she also naps well & if she sleeps for 3 hours she may wake up wanting 4-5 oz instead. If she still seems hungry after 3 oz she gets more. I've never had her "overeat" & get fussy/sick. She does like attention when she's awake, but she naps frequently so I think that's to be expected. And when she's tired I swaddle her, give her paci, & lay her in her bassinet with no problem. She goes right to sleep. The only struggle I've had with bf babies is that it does take them longer to adjust to care. We usually have a really fussy first week & semi fussy second one,but after that we're golden!
Edited to add: she naps 2-3 hours straight both in the morning & again in the afternoon with an occasional cat nap in between so she's a good sleeper too.

Last edited by mamamanda; 12-21-2017 at 04:57 AM. Reason: Add I info
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Old 12-21-2017, 06:13 AM
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I pumped for my son because he wouldnt latch, and my was i a cow! I had to pump every 30min I was so full. I fed on demand and he slept great! He is 7 now and not obese..quite the twig actually, he should eat more lol.
The breastmilk babies Ive had also were happy and slept 3hrs at a time for me and im told they sleep through the night. I can only go off of my experiences and in my experience, feeding on demand led to happier babies who slept great
To each there own.
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Old 12-21-2017, 07:10 AM
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While this is all good and true - none of this takes into account that a care provider may not have 20 minutes to focus on feeding one child or considers the impact a fussy child can have on the group as a whole.

I respect every parents right to decide what's best for their child, but if they are choosing daycare then they have to also be flexible when it comes to preparing their child for a smooth and successful day at daycare
Yup
This is why a portion of my rates are based on breastfeeding babies one to one time for feeding and prep/storage/parent conferencing etc.

I give a daily rate discount to formula fed babies because the feed time, prep (seconds) and parent conferencing is so dramatically less.

Breast fed babies are IMHO more labor intensive but it's easy work. Just takes more time so it's more expensive. I base my rates on that amount of one to one with parent and child and then discount formula fed babies because their feeding needs are much less time consuming.

Now every baby is different of course so you can have formula babies who have medical situations that increase feed times or change the way you feed. Breast fed babies can also have the same issues so it's a wash.

It's strictly the average time to manage breast milk, paced feedings, and the parent conferencing that I base a portion of my rates on. I discount that portion for formula fed.

Time is money whether it's one to one care for feeding or one to one care behavior, cloth diapering etc. Charge accordingly and the issue of whether or not you have time will be gone.
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Daycare Non-Payment Question blueskiesbutterflies Daycare Center and Family Home Forum 6 11-17-2014 10:43 AM
Dumbest Question Of The Year.... Countrygal Daycare Center and Family Home Forum 14 09-01-2012 05:08 AM
Breastfeeding blueclouds29 Daycare Center and Family Home Forum 21 02-22-2011 12:29 PM
Question About Breastfeeding Francine Daycare Center and Family Home Forum 4 07-27-2010 03:44 PM


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