Daycare.com Forum

Go Back   Daycare.com Forum > Main Category > Daycare Center and Family Home Forum

Daycare Center and Family Home Forum Daycare Center and Family Home owners, Directors, Operators and Assistants should post and ask questions here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-08-2018, 05:37 PM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Filed a Complaint on Provider - Was A Misunderstanding

Hi,
FTM here and new to daycare in general. This was my childís first week at an in home daycare. The main area is in the basement of a home. The provider always meets me at the door and doesnít invite me down to the basement. I asked to go down and she said to text her ahead of time and that I could only go there for a few minutes. She also told me if I visited at lunch, I could not nurse my baby down in the basement but would have to stay upstairs. This bothered me and I called local child care licensing to ask if this was normal or not. They said it wasnít and encouraged me to file a complaint. The same day, I went to pick up my child and the provider pulled me aside to apologize and explained her reasoning but said I could go downstairs at any time.

Long story short, I felt we had a misunderstanding about the whole thing and felt better after we talked. I immediately emailed the licensing people and said I made a mistake regarding the complaint. Will they be able to ďcancelĒ it? I donít want them pursing it especially since I feel bad for not being clearer with her and also, I donít want her upset with me (it was anonymous but sheíll know it was from me I am sure )
I wish I had just communicated better with her rather than calling them for advice and getting persuaded into making a complaint
Sorry this was so long- this daycare thing mixed with new Mom anxiety is making trouble for me
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-08-2018, 06:43 PM
Snowmom's Avatar
Snowmom Snowmom is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 1,086
Default

Wow.

Here, you would also not be allowed in the daycare space. You would have had a tour at the interview, but you would not have access to other peoples children that I care for- therefore not allowed in the daycare space during business hours without an invitation (special event).

You would also not be allowed to breastfeed on site.

You are welcome to arrive to take your child offsite. But, parents are not allowed to spend any length of time when other children are present. You do not get access to them at any time.

If that was important to you, you should have discussed this BEFORE enrolling. There are providers who allow visits and allow breastfeeding. In my state, it is not mandated to allow you access to anything beyond the front door to pick up your child. Maybe some states have breastfeeding requirements, but I can't imagine that would be mandated for private homes such as private daycare residences.

I would expect that your contract will be terminated when your provider finds out you filed a complaint. I would be 100% on her side. I sympathize that you now feel remorse. I'm glad you do. But it doesn't change the fact that you felt entitled to change her business practices to suit your needs.

SMH!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-08-2018, 10:12 PM
hwichlaz's Avatar
hwichlaz hwichlaz is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California
Posts: 1,744
Default

In my state, parents are to have access to their children AND the spaces that care is given in any time their child is in care.

We donít have to allow them to just hang out if itís causing a disruption, but we do have to allow them to nurse their child. We CAN offer a less disruptive space to do it.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-08-2018, 11:35 PM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmom View Post
Wow.

Here, you would also not be allowed in the daycare space. You would have had a tour at the interview, but you would not have access to other peoples children that I care for- therefore not allowed in the daycare space during business hours without an invitation (special event).

You would also not be allowed to breastfeed on site.

You are welcome to arrive to take your child offsite. But, parents are not allowed to spend any length of time when other children are present. You do not get access to them at any time.

If that was important to you, you should have discussed this BEFORE enrolling. There are providers who allow visits and allow breastfeeding. In my state, it is not mandated to allow you access to anything beyond the front door to pick up your child. Maybe some states have breastfeeding requirements, but I can't imagine that would be mandated for private homes such as private daycare residences.

I would expect that your contract will be terminated when your provider finds out you filed a complaint. I would be 100% on her side. I sympathize that you now feel remorse. I'm glad you do. But it doesn't change the fact that you felt entitled to change her business practices to suit your needs.

SMH!
OP here:
Yes it is a requirement in my state and we did talk about it prior to enrolling and attending. At the tour I was made to feel as if I would be welcome at any time. I also confirmed this when I was on maternity leave. However upon starting, it was a different message so hopefully you can imagine my concern and confusion.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-09-2018, 02:58 AM
Josiegirl's Avatar
Josiegirl Josiegirl is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Right here
Posts: 8,826
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
OP here:
Yes it is a requirement in my state and we did talk about it prior to enrolling and attending. At the tour I was made to feel as if I would be welcome at any time. I also confirmed this when I was on maternity leave. However upon starting, it was a different message so hopefully you can imagine my concern and confusion.
Hmmm, the provider seemed to change tactics as you went along. Not knowing details from both sides, it's hard to make a call about the situation. I do think, as you feel now, that it should've been worked out before placing that call to licensing. Usually that is for serious problems, not a simple misunderstanding. But then, as a new mom and 1st time dc client, I can almost understand the over reaction and lack of trust. However, trust is THE key issue here. And yes, even with private homes, states are cracking down to accommodate nursing moms. Not sure if it's mandated in my state but definitely highly encouraged.
There has got to be a line drawn between parents being allowed in homes, how much and what everyone is comfortable with. Privacy is a big issue, due to working with other dcfs., not to mention this is our home. I allow parents in my rooms used for dc, but not to an access. Not that I have anything to hide but due to the reasons just mentioned. I try to accommodate nursing moms and offer my living room for their comfort, which is part of the main dc area.
Go with your gut feeling; did this dc come highly recommended, do you feel comfortable now, keep the communication open and receptive. And please try to place your trust in this person. If something feels off, talk with them and express your concerns but do remember it's their home and their business.
Good luck and hope it works out for you!!!

Just wanted to add that I do completely understand why a provider wouldn't allow you to go to the basement dc. It can be very disruptive to the group, having another adult come in, upsetting even a simple routine. It can throw the whole day off for everyone. I don't see anything wrong with her allowing you to nurse your baby in a separate area.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-09-2018, 05:15 AM
Cat Herder's Avatar
Cat Herder Cat Herder is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,708
Default

My breastfeeding area is separate from my playroom. It is set up for comfort. I keep it cool, quiet, have a nice recliner, soft blanket, magazines, soft lighting and a tv. In off hours it is my reading room.

Kids are not allowed tv, access to expensive furniture or non-childproofed areas of my home. I don't allow adults access to other peoples children, I don't entertain adults during my work day. I did not like an audience when breastfeeding my children.

I do drop-off and pick-up on the porch. I don't like interruptions to our program. I do not have an assistant to engage the kids while I am forced into entertaining adults during my work day.

Yes, I will allow a parent access to their child at any time but if the parent becomes a constant disruption, I will simply replace them with the next parent on the list.

IMHO, This program does not seem to fit your needs. It would benefit both you and your provider for you to find other care.
__________________
- Unless otherwise stated, all my posts are personal opinion and worth what you paid for them.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-09-2018, 07:23 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I just don't get parents like the OP. If you want to spend so much time with your child, why are they in daycare? I always tell parents that when registering that I do group care and to really think if they want group care or a nanny/babysitter situation. You could also pump your milk before hand.

I think OP isn't ready for group care and should have a babysitter come to their home to watch their baby. You're going to have these issues with any daycare you put your child in with this attitude. Mostly likely, your provider is going to get written up and term you.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-09-2018, 08:39 AM
nannyde's Avatar
nannyde nannyde is offline
All powerful, all knowing daycare whisperer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 7,234
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Hi,
FTM here and new to daycare in general. This was my childís first week at an in home daycare. The main area is in the basement of a home. The provider always meets me at the door and doesnít invite me down to the basement. I asked to go down and she said to text her ahead of time and that I could only go there for a few minutes. She also told me if I visited at lunch, I could not nurse my baby down in the basement but would have to stay upstairs. This bothered me and I called local child care licensing to ask if this was normal or not. They said it wasnít and encouraged me to file a complaint. The same day, I went to pick up my child and the provider pulled me aside to apologize and explained her reasoning but said I could go downstairs at any time.

Long story short, I felt we had a misunderstanding about the whole thing and felt better after we talked. I immediately emailed the licensing people and said I made a mistake regarding the complaint. Will they be able to ďcancelĒ it? I donít want them pursing it especially since I feel bad for not being clearer with her and also, I donít want her upset with me (it was anonymous but sheíll know it was from me I am sure )
I wish I had just communicated better with her rather than calling them for advice and getting persuaded into making a complaint
Sorry this was so long- this daycare thing mixed with new Mom anxiety is making trouble for me
It sounds like you feel you were mislead in the interview and once you asked for access to the other children she said no but then changed her mind. Most likely she was afraid of what you already did... turn her in.

I don't allow parents in the playroom or have access to the other children.

Imagine having a day care dad who wants to hang out an hour to two hours a day to watch his child interacting with the other kids. He comes EVERY day and hangs out.

With phone in hand, he gets to videotape your child for hours if he wants. What looks like him being on the phone is really him videotaping. When you show up in the room to breastfeed, he gets to video tape you too. He can put you up on any site he wants and his daily videos of your kid up on any kiddie website he wants. He will have many followers.

The provider can't leave him unattended so he's right there when she's diapering. He has an opinion on what should be done and let's his feelings be known. If his snowflake needs something or intercession because of a perceived wrong, she HAS to leave your child unattended to do as she is told by him.

He has never taken care of other people's kids before. He doesn't know a thing about daycare regulations. What he believes should be done may actually be against the law.

He recognizes a kid in the daycare because he's the nephew of a friend of his. He gets loads of pics for the uncle and the uncle gets to do with them as he pleases too. The uncle doesn't get along with the kids parents so he uses the information and pics to taunt the parents. They can't figure out how he even knows where the kid attends daycare and he won't say.

When the daycare Dad feels his child has been wronged he disciplines the child who has offended his kid. He lifts his head from his phone and gets up to get in between the child and his child. He talks in a gruff way and tells the offender to never mess with his kid again. That kid goes home and tells his mom and dad what the daycare dad did and they immediately pull.

He's present when a phone call comes in from a mom who wants to discuss her child's vaginal yeast infection. The provider has to tell her she can't discuss it because the Dad is there and will most likely be there for a couple of hours. She explains how sorry she is but that "open door policy" the state has requires her to allow other parents access to her kid. The parents find out this dude is there every day for an hour or two and pulls their kid.

Want me to continue the story? You think it's fabricated? Well it's not.

See we don't know what every parent is going to do with the open door policy. Most won't do what he does but they surely can. Most won't videotape but it only takes one. Most won't discipline the other kids but some will. We don't know who that parent is at the interview.

Having you around the daycare kids is a HUGE liability. Having you climb up and down the stairs is a liability. I've had three adult falls, ONLY three, on my stairs and all three were my staff assistants carrying or supervising their OWN children on my stairs. Despite being HIGHLY trained on safe stair climbing, they did as they pleased when they had their own kid with them.

Having you drop off and pick up at the front door limits the liability to just the front door to the driveway. That's a huge difference.

All you had to do was just take your kid out of the daycare when you got the first no. Instead you turned her in. They will still come out and there's a VERY good chance you will be terminated. It may not come out as being from the call but if you make any wrong turn... don't bring a supply... being a minute late.. ANYTHING she will term.

I know you are a newbie mom. I get that you want to watch your provider and watch the other kids. I get that. You can have that at a center where there are multiple adults coming in and out daily and the kids are used to having strangers in the room. In a home daycare they aren't used to that and most walking kids act like little fools when a stranger is around. Most babies cry. Most providers loathe being watched as they work. Center workers don't because they are used to so many adults coming in and out and they KNOW it takes a big indiscretion that would cause them to loose their job. They really don't care because you are just one of many they will see in and out.

Lastly, why in the world would you want to breastfeed in front of the other kids? Why wouldn't you want one to one time with your baby while breastfeeding so you could devote every cell of your being to your baby? I don't get why mothers who are given the opportunity to have a private area to breast feed want to breast feed publicly especially in a daycare when they are coming during their breaks and have so little time.

I worked for two centers for a couple of years watching their video cameras. When the centers opened up the moms were allowed to breast feed in the infant rooms. They would come and hang out for hours a day... before daycare... lunch... and after they were off of work. It caused a crazy amount of conflict in the room.

The owner created AMAZING breast feeding rooms with phone, tv, recliners, internet etc. and changed the policy to breastfeeding in the breastfeeding lounge only. A couple of weeks later the only moms breastfeeding on site were the staff who had babies in the daycare and were on the clock when they fed their kid. All the moms doing in room feeding stopped. ALL of them.

When the owner required the staff to go off the clock to feed their babies, the breastfeeding lounge became a ghost town. The only time it was used was for the first week or two by a new mom.

The reason for this is that the moms weren't coming to be with their baby and spend time with them. They were coming to watch the other kid and staff and make the staff give them a ton of attention by asking questions about their baby and all the other kids. They wanted mommy attention. Once they could breastfeed somewhere else but were alone they quit coming.

I just don't understand why you weren't satisfied with having a space upstairs to feed? What made you call the state when you got what you wanted.. to be able to breastfeed your baby onsite?

I do feel badly you were misled. That's on the provider. Once you knew the rules you turned her in. That's on you. There will most likely be a price to pay unless she is DESPERATE for money. Hopefully for you, she is.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-09-2018, 09:21 AM
kendallina's Avatar
kendallina kendallina is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,604
Default

I would not be comfortable with an in- home provider that wouldn't allow me access to the playroom. My preschool is at the of my house so parents see my space and other kids daily. They see my interactions with their kid and other kids everyday. I'm not sure I would have filed a complaint but I probably would have pulled my child after the first conversation.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-09-2018, 01:20 PM
hwichlaz's Avatar
hwichlaz hwichlaz is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California
Posts: 1,744
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kendallina View Post
I would not be comfortable with an in- home provider that wouldn't allow me access to the playroom. My preschool is at the of my house so parents see my space and other kids daily. They see my interactions with their kid and other kids everyday. I'm not sure I would have filed a complaint but I probably would have pulled my child after the first conversation.
Same. Allowing access is not the same as allowing someone to just hang out. Our licensing has very clear limits on how much time per week someone can spend here before requiring back ground check etc. and we are always free to end a visit if itís disruptive. However, licensing also encourages parents to drop in early from time to time to see whatís going on. Itís right on one of the forms weíre required to hand out. The way I handle it, is I allow it, but if your child is upset when you try to leave, you must take them with you, and you can only stay for one activity. So if you drop in at craft time, please either kiss your child goodbye and leave, or take them wit you once itís over.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-09-2018, 01:33 PM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

OP again:
Thanks. I hope it was clear that I only wanted to come down at pick up/ drop off and made it clear the lunch thing would be occasional. I have a job and need to be there- I was never suggesting every day. In fact I had told her maybe once or twice per month!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-09-2018, 02:20 PM
LittleScholars's Avatar
LittleScholars LittleScholars is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: New York
Posts: 442
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
OP again:
Thanks. I hope it was clear that I only wanted to come down at pick up/ drop off and made it clear the lunch thing would be occasional. I have a job and need to be there- I was never suggesting every day. In fact I had told her maybe once or twice per month!
You're getting a lot of good feedback, but I'll chime in because I'm a nursing mom and provider, and I started my daycare primarily because I knew I'd be a nervous daycare mom (I taught elementary for over a decade before opening).

Parents do enter the daycare for drop off/pick up (if we are inside), and I do think this is important time, so I get your desire to have this time; however, not all providers have the luxury of a space that works well for this. I wouldn't necessarily think this is a red flag, although I'd be interested to know the reasoning. Parents stay in a designated area during this time but they have full view of the entire space. The goal is to get kids in/out quickly and happily, so this isn't a time to visit. If it becomes an issue, parents are required to make this time extra speedy. I think as your little one ages, you'll really understand the benefit of this.

As for nursing/visiting, I also wouldn't allow this to happen freely. Parents are welcome to come get kiddos at any time and, in that sense, I have a 100% open door policy, but parent visits are super disruptive. Some kiddos LOVE when other adults are present and are inclined to engage them (taking away from our time), and some kiddos are very introverted and pull away when visitors are present (taking away from our time). In my opinion, daycare isn't a place for parent visits. With that being said, we do schedule events in which all parents are invited throughout the year, and these are great. I can prepare all of my kiddos for this, and it is a success. As a former school teacher, I'm a huge fan of parental involvement, access, and awareness, but I think it needs to be done thoughtfully.

I don't take infants, but if I did I'd happily support a nursing mom; however, that would involve a place to nurse away from the main area. That is for the privacy of the kiddos, not mom (again, I'm super pro-nursing and have no issue with moms nursing openly).

All of that is to say, when/if you need to find a new daycare, I'd keep an open mind about why policies are in place. Again, I think it is really important that parents have a level of access and can see the day-to-day of the daycare, but I also think it is important to respect the privacy, routine, and rhythm of all of the kids.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-09-2018, 03:12 PM
Blackcat31's Avatar
Blackcat31 Blackcat31 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 16,646
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
OP again: I only wanted to come down at pick up/ drop off
Can I ask why?
Why is going downstairs (a space I am assuming you have been in or been shown prior) necessary for you?

I find it kind and courteous of the provider to bring baby to you. Letís say she has 5 kids in care; thatís 10xís she goes up and down those stairs daily and thatís probably the minimum.

Kudos to her for trying to make your pickups/drop offs so efficient for you.

As a parent Iíd appreciate that benefit of her program.

You didnít say why this is sticking point for you...
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-09-2018, 03:46 PM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

OP:
I wanted to come down and see where my LO is sleeping and playing. I also wanted to meet the assistants (there are two). I never thought it was even an issue until she pushed back on my request to go down. It made me wonder why and if there was a reason she didnít want me coming down. I think if she had just let me come down the first time, it wouldnít have planted suspicions in my mind. Also, when I told a few friends that I didnít go down there, they seemed alarmed, telling me that they were always welcome into their providers care area (in home as wel). So it made me wonder what was up with mine. Keep in mind I am a FTM and only have my friends to ask/ compare notes or my own feelings/ instincts to rely on
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-09-2018, 05:01 PM
Blackcat31's Avatar
Blackcat31 Blackcat31 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 16,646
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
OP:
I wanted to come down and see where my LO is sleeping and playing. I also wanted to meet the assistants (there are two). I never thought it was even an issue until she pushed back on my request to go down. It made me wonder why and if there was a reason she didnít want me coming down. I think if she had just let me come down the first time, it wouldnít have planted suspicions in my mind. Also, when I told a few friends that I didnít go down there, they seemed alarmed, telling me that they were always welcome into their providers care area (in home as wel). So it made me wonder what was up with mine. Keep in mind I am a FTM and only have my friends to ask/ compare notes or my own feelings/ instincts to rely on
Makes sense...

Curious... Did you tour the program prior to enrolling? Did the provider show you at that time what areas your baby would spend time in? If not did you ask?
How did you find her program? Recommendation from someone? Why did you choose this program/provider?
Is there a shortage of infant care in your area?

I apologize for all the questions but Iím trying to understand all the facts as well as both perspectives (parent/provider).
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-09-2018, 05:28 PM
nannyde's Avatar
nannyde nannyde is offline
All powerful, all knowing daycare whisperer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 7,234
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
OP:
I wanted to come down and see where my LO is sleeping and playing. I also wanted to meet the assistants (there are two). I never thought it was even an issue until she pushed back on my request to go down. It made me wonder why and if there was a reason she didnít want me coming down. I think if she had just let me come down the first time, it wouldnít have planted suspicions in my mind. Also, when I told a few friends that I didnít go down there, they seemed alarmed, telling me that they were always welcome into their providers care area (in home as wel). So it made me wonder what was up with mine. Keep in mind I am a FTM and only have my friends to ask/ compare notes or my own feelings/ instincts to rely on
did you see the sleep and playroom before enrollment? Did you ask to meet the staff assistants? Were you made aware of the staff before starting? What was the reason you didn't require meeting them before enrollment?

Most parents who want in the playroom want to see the other kids and want to watch the provider/staff care for the kids. It's unusual to have a parent even enroll without seeing the care area.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-09-2018, 06:13 PM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I had a tour of the daycare however it was after business hours. There was no option to come during the day. I was told once my LO attended I could visit during the day. I did not meet the assistants since it was closed. There is no shortage of infant care and this place was found through a search on the states website.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-10-2018, 04:52 AM
nannyde's Avatar
nannyde nannyde is offline
All powerful, all knowing daycare whisperer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 7,234
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I had a tour of the daycare however it was after business hours. There was no option to come during the day. I was told once my LO attended I could visit during the day. I did not meet the assistants since it was closed. There is no shortage of infant care and this place was found through a search on the states website.
So you did see the area where the baby slept and played? How would the rooms change during the day? What is the difference between seeing the areas when the business was open or closed?

I'm trying to figure out why you didn't just ask to meet the staff assistants. That was the only thing you hadn't seen before enrollment.

I do understand that you feel you were misled by being told you could visit the area during the day. It would have been best for the provider to just take all the kids into a different area of the house so you could see the area during the daytime I guess.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-10-2018, 05:28 AM
nannyde's Avatar
nannyde nannyde is offline
All powerful, all knowing daycare whisperer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 7,234
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
OP again:
Thanks. I hope it was clear that I only wanted to come down at pick up/ drop off and made it clear the lunch thing would be occasional. I have a job and need to be there- I was never suggesting every day. In fact I had told her maybe once or twice per month!
See that's where it becomes muddy. You are one parent and you say you wanted to come down at both drop off and pick up and lunch couple of times a month. Another parent may feel it's reasonable to do lunch every day. Another parent may hang out for a VERY long time at both drop off and pick up and do lunch every day.

As a side note... I can't imagine that kind of adult traffic on my stairs. I definitely would NOT want parents bringing their children up and down my stairs. I did daycare in one house for 13 years. If I allowed JUST parents dropping off and picking up kids in the basement I would have had over a HUNDRED THOUSAND trips up and down my stairs with parents holding their kids. That's with eight kids just on just the day shift. I did evening shift in the house for about ten years too.

In my other house I ran an average of twelve kids per day where their playrooms were upstairs for nine years. That's over a hundred thousand trips too and just counting the day shift.

If we added in the night shift between both houses my guess would be at least another 100K

What do you think the odds are that in 300 thousand trips on my stairs I would have had a number of accidents of parents on the stairs with their kids? That's just arrival and departure numbers. That's not visiting during the day.

As I said before I had three falls on my stairs in 21 years and all three were with my staff assistants with their own kids. Not once did they fall with someone else's kid and I never fell once carting kids up and down.

I have enough problems getting parents to make their kids behave on a ten foot walk from driveway to front door. I can't imagine allowing them to parent their kids inside my house, especially on my stairs... the most dangerous thing in my house.

I'm a firm believer in parents being able to go into the play and sleep areas unannounced to count kids. That's really the only way to know how many kids are in the house. A quick in and out to count heads. Other than that, I can't imagine why a parent would want to be in the playroom watching the other kids and staff. I don't want other parents around my daycare kids and I don't want myself or my staff being watched working.

I live in a tiny town that has a school preschool for ages three to five. You can't even get into the building without being buzzed in by the office staff. Once into the building you are not allowed to go ANYWHERE but the office. If you need to see your kid he is either escorted or sent to the office. Parents are never allowed in the preschool classrooms unless they are having all parents in for a party or something. They are never allowed to drop in unannounced and they certainly aren't allowed to stay in the classroom. They serve special needs kids within this group who are as vulnerable as an infant but the parents of those children have to follow the same rules.

When my son was in preschool in the early 2000's they allowed parents to "visit" any time they wanted. That lasted about a month and they shut that down. They had constant parents coming in and out and staying to watch their kids play. It was highly disruptive. They changed their rules to entry into the office only and took the kids to the office if a parent wanted immediate access.

The concept of being able to come and go into the play areas or sleep areas seems to be such a big deal with home daycare but the parent willingly allows no immediate access to the room when their kids go to preschool.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-10-2018, 05:53 AM
nannyde's Avatar
nannyde nannyde is offline
All powerful, all knowing daycare whisperer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 7,234
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kendallina View Post
I would not be comfortable with an in- home provider that wouldn't allow me access to the playroom. My preschool is at the of my house so parents see my space and other kids daily. They see my interactions with their kid and other kids everyday. I'm not sure I would have filed a complaint but I probably would have pulled my child after the first conversation.
I wouldn't be comfortable with an in home provider who would allow me access to the playroom when the other kids are present. I know I'm safe but I don't know a thing about the other parents. Just because you give birth to a kid or adopt a kid, and pay for child care or have child care paid for you, it doesn't mean you are safe to be around other people's children.

Our prisons and mental health facilities are chocked full of parents. Being a parent is NOT an indicator that you are safe to be around other people's children.

This is a great thread regarding safety of children and perpetrators. https://www.daycare.com/forum/showth...ighlight=abuse
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 06-10-2018, 06:47 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I see the validity in the points made regarding safety and access to children. However, the regulation and laws dictate that parents and guardians are allowed this access. And at any time. So when these regulations appear to be restricted, isnít something possibly amiss? I acknowledge my role in not understanding her reasons however my right to access is pretty clear in my state. And this provider made me feel as though I didnít have that right. I think some of you are correct - this provider doesnít meet our family needs. And thatís fine going forward.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-10-2018, 07:28 AM
Blackcat31's Avatar
Blackcat31 Blackcat31 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 16,646
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I see the validity in the points made regarding safety and access to children. However, the regulation and laws dictate that parents and guardians are allowed this access. And at any time. So when these regulations appear to be restricted, isnít something possibly amiss? I acknowledge my role in not understanding her reasons however my right to access is pretty clear in my state. And this provider made me feel as though I didnít have that right. I think some of you are correct - this provider doesnít meet our family needs. And thatís fine going forward.
I think the issue stems from your version of ďaccessĒ and the providers version of ďaccessĒ.

What exactly does your state say about access?
Not what they said when you called but what is the wording written in your state regulations stating how access is/isnít restricted?

If you are unsure, what state are you in?
(itís usually pretty searchable info and most states list regulations online)
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-10-2018, 08:11 AM
nannyde's Avatar
nannyde nannyde is offline
All powerful, all knowing daycare whisperer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 7,234
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I see the validity in the points made regarding safety and access to children. However, the regulation and laws dictate that parents and guardians are allowed this access. And at any time. So when these regulations appear to be restricted, isnít something possibly amiss? I acknowledge my role in not understanding her reasons however my right to access is pretty clear in my state. And this provider made me feel as though I didnít have that right. I think some of you are correct - this provider doesnít meet our family needs. And thatís fine going forward.
Could you cite your state's code for access? I'm in Iowa and we are required to provide unlimited access to the child and the provider caring for the child. This is accomplished by answering the door with child in hand. Immediate access to child and provider. It doesn't mean access to the child in any area of the house the child isn't in. It doesn't mean access to the other children.

In my State your provider would be compliant by simply meeting you at the door with your child.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-10-2018, 08:14 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

When I called licensing they made it clear itís access to the room (not just my child) as well.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-10-2018, 08:50 AM
nannyde's Avatar
nannyde nannyde is offline
All powerful, all knowing daycare whisperer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 7,234
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
When I called licensing they made it clear itís access to the room (not just my child) as well.
That's not helpful. I would need to see the actual code.

I had a deal years ago where I had a call from an aunt who just got custody of her sisters daughter who had been removed by the state. The aunt sets up an appointment to interview the next day. A few hours later... during nap... I get a doorbell ring and two ladies are at my door and a dude is at the car.

I open the nearby window instead of the door and ask if I can help them. The child's mom says she has come to inspect my daycare. She tells me her sister might bring her kid to me and dhs told her she had the right to inspect my house. I told her that I don't do unannounced inspections and she was welcome to come with her sister tomorrow. She could but her friends could not.

She repeated that she was told that she could come any time she wanted and I had to let her in.

She turned me into DHS for not allowing her access and poof.... I get inspected the next day. I KNEW I would have dhs at my door the next day so I got ready for an inspection and answered the door to the inspector with a "I was expecting you."

This lady had never met me.
she had never seen my program.
She had never been inside my house.
I never met her kid.
I never interviewed her or her sister.

I get a phone call for a potential interview from TOTAL strangers and less than 24 hours later I have a complaint and an inspection.

I talked to the inspector about what had happened and that someone in the daycare division told this lady she could come into my home and someone else took the complaint without knowing the code.

I was NOT required to allow a stranger off the street to come unannounced with two friends to inspect my house much less when I was home alone. She was a parent but not a parent in my daycare.
She was also someone the state felt was unsafe to have her own kid and I was supposed to allow her access to mine and the daycare kids?

The inspector gave me a 100 percent evaluation and went back to the two who gave her the permission and took the complaint to clarify the regulations.

So.... don't believe what someone at the daycare division tells you. It may be their interpretation. It may not be the law.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 06-10-2018, 08:52 AM
racemom's Avatar
racemom racemom is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: nebraska
Posts: 928
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
So you did see the area where the baby slept and played? How would the rooms change during the day? What is the difference between seeing the areas when the business was open or closed?

I'm trying to figure out why you didn't just ask to meet the staff assistants. That was the only thing you hadn't seen before enrollment.

I do understand that you feel you were misled by being told you could visit the area during the day. It would have been best for the provider to just take all the kids into a different area of the house so you could see the area during the daytime I guess.
I disagree with nannyde on this. I have seen numerous times where something has happened to a child in daycare and the provider was way over ratio and people says why would anyone take their child there. This is why I would want to be able to see the daycare staff and area in action. Anyone can make their daycare space look good after hours, but without seeing it during regular hours how can you know the provider isn't just warehousing kids.

I am going to claify I am not an in home provider, I have worked at the same daycare center for the past 12 years and love it!
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06-10-2018, 09:09 AM
nannyde's Avatar
nannyde nannyde is offline
All powerful, all knowing daycare whisperer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 7,234
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by racemom View Post
I disagree with nannyde on this. I have seen numerous times where something has happened to a child in daycare and the provider was way over ratio and people says why would anyone take their child there. This is why I would want to be able to see the daycare staff and area in action. Anyone can make their daycare space look good after hours, but without seeing it during regular hours how can you know the provider isn't just warehousing kids.

I am going to claify I am not an in home provider, I have worked at the same daycare center for the past 12 years and love it!
As I said in a previous post, I believe parents should be able to count heads at any time. Quick in and out.

seeing the staff in action? No. That would mean hanging out around the other people's children.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06-10-2018, 09:49 AM
kendallina's Avatar
kendallina kendallina is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,604
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
I wouldn't be comfortable with an in home provider who would allow me access to the playroom when the other kids are present. I know I'm safe but I don't know a thing about the other parents. Just because you give birth to a kid or adopt a kid, and pay for child care or have child care paid for you, it doesn't mean you are safe to be around other people's children.

Our prisons and mental health facilities are chocked full of parents. Being a parent is NOT an indicator that you are safe to be around other people's children.

This is a great thread regarding safety of children and perpetrators. https://www.daycare.com/forum/showth...ighlight=abuse
That's why you wouldn't enroll your child in my care and I wouldn't enroll my child in yours Nannyde. That's okay
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 06-10-2018, 10:46 AM
nannyde's Avatar
nannyde nannyde is offline
All powerful, all knowing daycare whisperer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 7,234
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kendallina View Post
That's why you wouldn't enroll your child in my care and I wouldn't enroll my child in yours Nannyde. That's okay
Iirc you do preschool? Do you have a multi level aged group care all year around with full time kids?
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 06-10-2018, 12:20 PM
kendallina's Avatar
kendallina kendallina is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,604
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
Iirc you do preschool? Do you have a multi level aged group care all year around with full time kids?
Ages 3-5 full time all year.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 06-10-2018, 01:09 PM
nannyde's Avatar
nannyde nannyde is offline
All powerful, all knowing daycare whisperer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 7,234
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kendallina View Post
Ages 3-5 full time all year.
By full time do you mean that each kid is there all day? You don't have a day group and afternoon group? You don't have some 3 days a week or 2 for example?

How many kids per day?
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 06-10-2018, 05:18 PM
lovemykidstoo's Avatar
lovemykidstoo lovemykidstoo is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: U.S.
Posts: 4,004
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Can I ask why?
Why is going downstairs (a space I am assuming you have been in or been shown prior) necessary for you?


I find it kind and courteous of the provider to bring baby to you. Letís say she has 5 kids in care; thatís 10xís she goes up and down those stairs daily and thatís probably the minimum.

Kudos to her for trying to make your pickups/drop offs so efficient for you.

As a parent Iíd appreciate that benefit of her program.

You didnít say why this is sticking point for you...
This was my question. In my previous house my daycare room primarily was in the basement. I always had the kids come up just before pickup time and we would all go down together after the last child was dropped off. (we also used the living area, kitchen/dining room on the main floor as well). I don't understand the need to go downstairs every time during drop off and pickup. To answer the OP question about why the provider has an issue with it is maybe it's disruptive. The kids really do put on a show when an adult is here. Things run much smoother when it's just me and the kids. Not to mention quick drop offs are just easier on the child really. I have so many that the longer the parent stays, the harder it is for the child to say goodbye.

My son was in daycare for 3 years before I started my own daycare, so I do understand your questioning it. My sons daycare was an in-home provider. You would walk into her garage that was renovated as a playroom and then knock on the door that would go into the house. I never stepped foot into the actual house, he just walked in when she opened the door. I thought for a long time that it was weird that I didn't go in. Looking back now that I'm a provider and I totally get it.

So my question to the OP is why do you need to go down every day at drop off and pickup too? I'm not meaning to sound snarky, but really are you looking for something in particular? Also, you said she pulled you aside and apologized and explained why. What did she say?
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 06-10-2018, 05:40 PM
MyAngels's Avatar
MyAngels MyAngels is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,949
Default

I didn't read completely through all the other responses so forgive me if this has already been asked, but why didn't you just talk with your provider about this issue, explaining what you wanted and why her reluctance made you uncomfortable before you decided to escalate things and call licensing on her? Trust is the cornerstone of any daycare relationship and if you couldn't even discuss something this simple with her then you obviously do not have that trust and should move on to another provider that you actually can trust.

If one of my families filed a complaint against me (opening up a whole can of worms for no good reason, btw) for something that could have been easily addressed with a simple conversation I would be terming immediately. You probably ought to start looking for a new provider.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 06-11-2018, 03:55 AM
kendallina's Avatar
kendallina kendallina is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,604
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
By full time do you mean that each kid is there all day? You don't have a day group and afternoon group? You don't have some 3 days a week or 2 for example?

How many kids per day?
All day. 6 kids. Why?
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 06-11-2018, 05:54 AM
racemom's Avatar
racemom racemom is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: nebraska
Posts: 928
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
As I said in a previous post, I believe parents should be able to count heads at any time. Quick in and out.

seeing the staff in action? No. That would mean hanging out around the other people's children.
But the OP asked to go down, and was told she needed to text first. That is my concern, why wasn't she allowed to go down when she asked. If I have to text 15 minutes ahead of time to see the area, that tells me she is hiding something.

We do pick up and drop off in the room, so parents see us in action everyday, twice a day. Yes, it can be disruptive for those few minutes but it is because they are excited to see their friends arrive and to say goodbye. I believe it is important for parents to be able to interact with us, more than just handing them their child at the door.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 06-11-2018, 07:01 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I see the validity in the points made regarding safety and access to children. However, the regulation and laws dictate that parents and guardians are allowed this access. And at any time. So when these regulations appear to be restricted, isnít something possibly amiss? I acknowledge my role in not understanding her reasons however my right to access is pretty clear in my state. And this provider made me feel as though I didnít have that right. I think some of you are correct - this provider doesnít meet our family needs. And thatís fine going forward.
The provider will term you anyways. I know I would term you since you called licensing for no good reason.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 06-11-2018, 07:05 AM
Snowmom's Avatar
Snowmom Snowmom is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 1,086
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by racemom View Post
But the OP asked to go down, and was told she needed to text first. That is my concern, why wasn't she allowed to go down when she asked. If I have to text 15 minutes ahead of time to see the area, that tells me she is hiding something.

We do pick up and drop off in the room, so parents see us in action everyday, twice a day. Yes, it can be disruptive for those few minutes but it is because they are excited to see their friends arrive and to say goodbye. I believe it is important for parents to be able to interact with us, more than just handing them their child at the door.
I'm going to answer from my perspective, because I do things very similarly.
My answer: this is a new family. I set the precedence right off the bat. The first few weeks, I make absolutely no exception to my rules. After I know the family for awhile, I will take things on a case by case basis since they now know I'm serious about my policies.

As far as parents counting heads. No, I don't openly state "sure, walk in and take a look." I take privacy very, very seriously. Plus, they (parents) don't know the ages of the children I have in care, some may look younger than 1 who are actually closer to 2 and try to say I have too many infants. Or they don't understand licensing capacities. Here, I can switch between a C1/C2 license if I want to take on an additional toddler. I can have between 10-12 kids in varying ages. I also have part timers who trade days. People who aren't in the business just don't understand the intricacies of the rules.

They just have no business in my business beyond their child and they have no real vested interest in the others.
I communicate with them in several different ways- probably TOO MUCH. They are well informed on what they need to be informed on. They see pictures, videos and in depth information on projects we do several times a week (I have a password protected website only they can view after logging on). They don't need to be face to face with the other children to see us working on our day.

To me, this is a business first. Not family or friends. I don't hang out with my own children's teachers, substitutes or admins in their school. I don't demand to be able to walk in to their classroom. I know it's disruptive to the kids and their teachers and the learning that's suppose to be actively happening all day, even in play.

I understand that the way I do things is not for everyone.
I also understand why some providers feel they want to offer that service.

What irritates me though is the people that say "If you aren't allowed to see your child (along with others-because let's face it, THAT'S what they want to see) in action, then you shouldn't trust that provider." That's wrong in my opinion. If it doesn't work for them, just move on to one who offers what you want.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 06-11-2018, 07:07 AM
mommyneedsadayoff's Avatar
mommyneedsadayoff mommyneedsadayoff is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,657
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Hi,
FTM here and new to daycare in general. This was my childís first week at an in home daycare. The main area is in the basement of a home. The provider always meets me at the door and doesnít invite me down to the basement. I asked to go down and she said to text her ahead of time and that I could only go there for a few minutes. She also told me if I visited at lunch, I could not nurse my baby down in the basement but would have to stay upstairs. This bothered me and I called local child care licensing to ask if this was normal or not. They said it wasnít and encouraged me to file a complaint. The same day, I went to pick up my child and the provider pulled me aside to apologize and explained her reasoning but said I could go downstairs at any time.

Long story short, I felt we had a misunderstanding about the whole thing and felt better after we talked. I immediately emailed the licensing people and said I made a mistake regarding the complaint. Will they be able to ďcancelĒ it? I donít want them pursing it especially since I feel bad for not being clearer with her and also, I donít want her upset with me (it was anonymous but sheíll know it was from me I am sure )
I wish I had just communicated better with her rather than calling them for advice and getting persuaded into making a complaint
Sorry this was so long- this daycare thing mixed with new Mom anxiety is making trouble for me
I have learned that every daycare operate so differently, and they all have such different set-ups, so their policies generally reflect rules to make their job go as smoothly as possible. In this case, you believed you had access to the basement at all times and she put conditions on that access, so you went above her head. When you spoke next, you cleared up the misinformation, but imo, the damage is done. Now every time she tells you no, she has to fear that you're going to call licensing on her. You would be a risky client for me, so I would most definitely terminate care.
It's very frustrating as a provider that every rule we have is questioned as though we have something to hide. Maybe she got new carpet on her stairs and didn't want people coming in and out. Maybe someone recently fell on the stairs and she's freaked out by having parents up and down them. Maybe when you come down into the basement, it squeaks the floorboards and the babies who are napping will wake up. There can be so many reasons other than she's hiding something. A simple conversation cleared up the issue. So if you liked her and felt good about her care and this was just a single issue that bothered you, have the conversation first, and if it still feels upsetting or uncomfortable, then find new care. Calling licensing was an over reaction imo, since it seems like a simple conversation cleared it up. If you truly felt she was hiding something or providing unsafe care, then I would pull my child and make the call for sure, but this doesn't appear to be the case. Anyway, best of luck in your childcare search and just remember to keep open communication with your provider!
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 06-11-2018, 07:15 AM
Blackcat31's Avatar
Blackcat31 Blackcat31 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 16,646
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmom View Post
I'm going to answer from my perspective, because I do things very similarly.
My answer: this is a new family. I set the precedence right off the bat. The first few weeks, I make absolutely no exception to my rules. After I know the family for awhile, I will take things on a case by case basis since they now know I'm serious about my policies.

As far as parents counting heads. No, I don't openly state "sure, walk in and take a look." I take privacy very, very seriously. Plus, they (parents) don't know the ages of the children I have in care, some may look younger than 1 who are actually closer to 2 and try to say I have too many infants. Or they don't understand licensing capacities. Here, I can switch between a C1/C2 license if I want to take on an additional toddler. I can have between 10-12 kids in varying ages. I also have part timers who trade days. People who aren't in the business just don't understand the intricacies of the rules.

They just have no business in my business beyond their child and they have no real vested interest in the others.
I communicate with them in several different ways- probably TOO MUCH. They are well informed on what they need to be informed on. They see pictures, videos and in depth information on projects we do several times a week (I have a password protected website only they can view after logging on). They don't need to be face to face with the other children to see us working on our day.

To me, this is a business first. Not family or friends. I don't hang out with my own children's teachers, substitutes or admins in their school. I don't demand to be able to walk in to their classroom. I know it's disruptive to the kids and their teachers and the learning that's suppose to be actively happening all day, even in play.

I understand that the way I do things is not for everyone.
I also understand why some providers feel they want to offer that service.

What irritates me though is the people that say "If you aren't allowed to see your child (along with others-because let's face it, THAT'S what they want to see) in action, then you shouldn't trust that provider." That's wrong in my opinion. If it doesn't work for them, just move on to one who offers what you want.


I also think given the actions of this parent... calling to ask licensing BEFORE thinking to ask the provider says alot about the parent. I am willing to bet this parent came across as "difficult" or "needy" immediately and more than likely fits the description of those parents that when asked about on this forum during the interview most of our responses are "RUN", "NEXT" or "Red Flag". Hence the providers unwillingness to allow her "access" to anything other than the child.

I am NOT saying this parent is any of those things but the simple fact that as an adult, they chose to "tattle" or "report" first before knowing the whole story or taking it to the person that could actually answer her questions and appease her concerns is unsettling to me.

NOT once but TWICE!!

First parent called licensing to ask BEFORE going to provider to discuss openly and honestly .
Second the parent posted here. AGAIN, before going to the provider to discuss openly and honestly.

IMHO, that's not something you can simply chalk up to first time parenting as poster alludes to several times.

That's something I equate with someone's overall character.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 06-11-2018, 07:22 AM
Cat Herder's Avatar
Cat Herder Cat Herder is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,708
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by racemom View Post
If I have to text 15 minutes ahead of time to see the area, that tells me she is hiding something.
Unless she has to secure the infants in cribs away from the toddlers. Secure the toddlers away from the preschoolers. Secure the preschoolers away from the stairs and art supplies. Go upstairs. Secure her dogs and unlock the door.

I agree with you in that if she had two full-time assistants, my point is moot. Although, none of that information was in the OP and we only have half of the story.

I work alone and have to leave my group unsupervised or move a mixed aged group of 6 through my family living space, 4 rooms, to answer the door. 3 non-mobile. My playroom is separate from my living space with easy access to the backyard and playground.

I don't require a text because I installed cameras and a driveway alarm that gives me sufficient time to free myself up to deal with an unexpected adult. Unless we are in the middle of painting/gluing or sand/water tables, then they will just stand outside watching us through the window until we are finished. Kids first. The State people even sit in their car and wait patiently in that case.

I am already surprise inspected by people trained to know what to look for every 10-12 weeks, up to four hours per visit for health and safety. Sometimes more. I am surprise observed by the State for minimum 4 hours a year to rate curriculum, engagement and interactions.

I have no problem with a parent randomly showing up, wanting to come in, do a quick look around and a head count. It is their right. But, I expect they take their kid with them when they leave. If it becomes a constant disruptive thing, I will replace them. That is my right. In reality, all of that can be done much easier during playground time, which is posted, and much less disruptive for the provider. Why don't more parents make use of that? Because it is uncomfortable and dirty?

If they are that suspicious or untrusting, they need to put their child in an environment with cameras they can view all day or glass-walled centers with many adults in and out all day. For their own emotional needs. Either family-based care is for you or it's not. It was never intended to be an institution. Common sense needs to be applied.

Not all parents want their kid around other adults after they drop them with their chosen provider. They have privacy rights, too. I work with a lot of public safety, they don't want people knowing where their kids are. None mind quick visits and head counts. It is the long visits where their kid becomes "acquainted" with other adults they don't want.
__________________
- Unless otherwise stated, all my posts are personal opinion and worth what you paid for them.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 06-11-2018, 07:36 AM
rosieteddy's Avatar
rosieteddy rosieteddy is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 821
Default

I think its time to look for a center.First time parent or not calling licensing was wrong.You do not trust the provider so that home is not a good fit.A center would be more open door policy .I rarely let parents into the daycare area.Only because it was chaotic when parents were around,not because I had children hidden.I do understand your concern.Things are not always as they seem and its your child.I welcomed parents in the playyard at pickup and if they had expressed an interest in viewing inside while we were out I would have let them.I think you need to trust that you picked the right caregiver or try a center.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 06-11-2018, 07:45 AM
nannyde's Avatar
nannyde nannyde is offline
All powerful, all knowing daycare whisperer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 7,234
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kendallina View Post
All day. 6 kids. Why?
I was just trying to imagine how it worked. I think I have you confused with someone else who just did preschool for a few hours a day and took the summers off.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 06-11-2018, 08:11 AM
Cat Herder's Avatar
Cat Herder Cat Herder is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,708
Default

"Anyone can make their daycare space look good after hours, but without seeing it during regular hours how can you know the provider isn't just warehousing kids."

By discretely parking and watching your children play and interact on the playground. Most providers can tell you where the best viewing is that your child won't see you and get upset or stop participating. Some of us even have a nice bench in the shade set up.

The provider won't care if you are there unless you demand they stop their work day to give you their full attention. That is the problem. Disrupting kids learning and the providers' schedule.

Outside viewing, out of your childs sight, does not disrupt the flow and allows a more natural view of the relationship of your children to their peers and provider. That is what most parents really want to see, isn't it?

Why interrupt circle time, art, cooking, music, center time and nap? Obviously, the kids and provider will be upset. That is not a natural view of their day.
__________________
- Unless otherwise stated, all my posts are personal opinion and worth what you paid for them.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 06-11-2018, 09:21 AM
racemom's Avatar
racemom racemom is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: nebraska
Posts: 928
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
"Anyone can make their daycare space look good after hours, but without seeing it during regular hours how can you know the provider isn't just warehousing kids."

By discretely parking and watching your children play and interact on the playground. Most providers can tell you where the best viewing is that your child won't see you and get upset or stop participating. Some of us even have a nice bench in the shade set up.

The provider won't care if you are there unless you demand they stop their work day to give you their full attention. That is the problem. Disrupting kids learning and the providers' schedule.

Outside viewing, out of your childs sight, does not disrupt the flow and allows a more natural view of the relationship of your children to their peers and provider. That is what most parents really want to see, isn't it?

Why interrupt circle time, art, cooking, music, center time and nap? Obviously, the kids and provider will be upset. That is not a natural view of their day.
I agree this is ideal. Everyone seems to think OP was planning on hanging out with the kids. My understanding was during drop off or pick up she asked to see the daycare space and was told she needed to text 15 minutes ahead of time. Maybe I see thing differently then home providers, but why need 15 minutes heads up when the parent is standing right there. Why couldnt she go downstairs, quick look around and leave. Some of the comments are I can't leave the kids but she already had to come upstairs. If ahe thought the parent wanted to stay, she should have told her they needed a quick drop off, but she could have done it downstairs.

I still feel like the provider was hiding something and would not leave my child somewhere I was not allowed to come into.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 06-11-2018, 09:38 AM
Josiegirl's Avatar
Josiegirl Josiegirl is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Right here
Posts: 8,826
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by racemom View Post
I agree this is ideal. Everyone seems to think OP was planning on hanging out with the kids. My understanding was during drop off or pick up she asked to see the daycare space and was told she needed to text 15 minutes ahead of time. Maybe I see thing differently then home providers, but why need 15 minutes heads up when the parent is standing right there. Why couldnt she go downstairs, quick look around and leave. Some of the comments are I can't leave the kids but she already had to come upstairs. If ahe thought the parent wanted to stay, she should have told her they needed a quick drop off, but she could have done it downstairs.

I still feel like the provider was hiding something and would not leave my child somewhere I was not allowed to come into.
Plus OP was told she could visit anytime, miscommunication problem possible? Or misinterpretation of open door policy?
I live in a small town, all my parents see one another between shopping, different events and activities offered in our community. They're not strangers and know all the other kids and families, some better than others. Guess I'm lucky in that way.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 06-11-2018, 09:39 AM
Cat Herder's Avatar
Cat Herder Cat Herder is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,708
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by racemom View Post
My understanding was during drop off or pick up she asked to see the daycare space and was told she needed to text 15 minutes ahead of time. Maybe I see thing differently then home providers, but why need 15 minutes heads up when the parent is standing right there. Why couldnt she go downstairs, quick look around and leave. Some of the comments are I can't leave the kids but she already had to come upstairs. If ahe thought the parent wanted to stay, she should have told her they needed a quick drop off, but she could have done it downstairs.

I still feel like the provider was hiding something and would not leave my child somewhere I was not allowed to come into.
To me the OP was discussing future random mid day visits, not that actual moment during that particular drop off. That did not sound rational. It is possible I was wrong. The fact that she also said "if I visited at lunch" implied she was more likely discussing future visits.

When offered a separate room to breastfeed in, she did not want it. She wanted to sit and breastfeed in the playroom with other kids and the providers present. To observe the providers and other children's interactions.

"The provider always meets me at the door and doesn’t invite me down to the basement. I asked to go down and she said to text her ahead of time and that I could only go there for a few minutes. She also told me if I visited at lunch, I could not nurse my baby down in the basement but would have to stay upstairs."

She was told she could come down but could not linger. She did not like that so filed a complaint without discussing her concerns with the provider. Now she wants to take it back because once she discussed it with her provider she realized the reason for the heads up request was valid.
__________________
- Unless otherwise stated, all my posts are personal opinion and worth what you paid for them.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 06-11-2018, 09:48 AM
hwichlaz's Avatar
hwichlaz hwichlaz is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California
Posts: 1,744
Default

Cat herder, she was told she could come down for a few min at pick up.....with advance notice. Iíd pull my kid too. We read about providers with babyies all lined up in car seats in basements and wonder how they get away with it for years....this is how.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 06-11-2018, 09:58 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sodius

Maybe the DC provider wanted the 15 minutes heads up so she could put the room in some kind of order. You know, pride in your home and all that. Just my thoughts.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 06-11-2018, 10:01 AM
hwichlaz's Avatar
hwichlaz hwichlaz is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California
Posts: 1,744
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Maybe the DC provider wanted the 15 minutes heads up so she could put the room in some kind of order. You know, pride in your home and all that. Just my thoughts.
Thatís a big red flag.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 06-11-2018, 10:02 AM
Cat Herder's Avatar
Cat Herder Cat Herder is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,708
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hwichlaz View Post
Cat herder, she was told she could come down for a few min at pick up.....with advance notice. I’d pull my kid too. We read about providers with babyies all lined up in car seats in basements and wonder how they get away with it for years....this is how.
Where is that?

"The same day, I went to pick up my child and the provider pulled me aside to apologize and explained her reasoning but said I could go downstairs at any time." - Implies other conversation was at drop off.

I am not reading that the same way you are. I added both direct quotes from OP.
__________________
- Unless otherwise stated, all my posts are personal opinion and worth what you paid for them.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 06-11-2018, 10:03 AM
amberrose3dg's Avatar
amberrose3dg amberrose3dg is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: somewhere
Posts: 1,095
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
"Anyone can make their daycare space look good after hours, but without seeing it during regular hours how can you know the provider isn't just warehousing kids."

By discretely parking and watching your children play and interact on the playground. Most providers can tell you where the best viewing is that your child won't see you and get upset or stop participating. Some of us even have a nice bench in the shade set up.

The provider won't care if you are there unless you demand they stop their work day to give you their full attention. That is the problem. Disrupting kids learning and the providers' schedule.

Outside viewing, out of your childs sight, does not disrupt the flow and allows a more natural view of the relationship of your children to their peers and provider. That is what most parents really want to see, isn't it?

Why interrupt circle time, art, cooking, music, center time and nap? Obviously, the kids and provider will be upset. That is not a natural view of their day.
I think the person called licensing to get her "way".Here is what I think. You could of spoken to your provider first. I feel you wanted to tattle instead of talking like an adult to get her to give you your way from the start. That said I think most providers would terminate your contract over that.You are only thinking about you and not the other families and children in this scenario. People that have to call the shots need to hire a nanny.I have 12 children in my care. Parents should drop off and pick up as soon as possible. It is not because I am trying to hide something or doing something wrong. It is disruptive and makes a scene for chaos. I also have limited parking spaces for drops offs and pick ups. If all 12 decided to hang out I'd have some upset neighbors.Nannyde makes a great point. How does the provider know you are safe to be around other people's children? She does not.I have had some children with shady family members. I would never let them in to hang out with my daycare kids no matter what! I am responsible for the safety of those kids before anything. Read some stories on this forum and you will see why parents can't just come in to hang out. If you have free time to hang out take your child home and spend some one on one time. I had a little girl that was in grandma's custody(mom was in prison for drug charges and assault) and guess what mom got out and grandma sent the mom to pick up the little girl. Do you think I should of let her in my mom to hang out with the other children? People can do strange things. I do not want to have to worry about what someone might do.If you do not trust your provider go to one that you do.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 06-11-2018, 10:04 AM
Cat Herder's Avatar
Cat Herder Cat Herder is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,708
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Maybe the DC provider wanted the 15 minutes heads up so she could put the room in some kind of order. You know, pride in your home and all that. Just my thoughts.
That would not be ok with me, either. And I work alone with mixed age group, medically fragile and special needs.
__________________
- Unless otherwise stated, all my posts are personal opinion and worth what you paid for them.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 06-11-2018, 10:06 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sodius

Well I like a clean home where tripping over toys isn't an issue when I am showing someone the play are. Maybe that is just me.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 06-11-2018, 10:07 AM
amberrose3dg's Avatar
amberrose3dg amberrose3dg is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: somewhere
Posts: 1,095
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hwichlaz View Post
Thatís a big red flag.
Yeah but what is she gonna do in those 15 minutes? Hide babies in closets?
It may be to clean up messes or to make sure she has no immediate needs to care for like diaper changes etc...
People that are doing shady stuff aren't gonna let you in no matter what.I think she should let her look around and then take her child home. The child will be really upset once mom leaves.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 06-11-2018, 10:09 AM
Josiegirl's Avatar
Josiegirl Josiegirl is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Right here
Posts: 8,826
Default

I still am chalking it all up to first time mom and first time daycare user.
Not long ago, I received a call from a mom-to-be who, just because I told her that I did have an infant opening, and we set up an appt. for a month down the road, she assumed she had the spot. We never met and only talked a couple minutes on the phone. 1st time mom and 1st time daycare user.
It's really easy to look at all this from a seasoned providers' POV or experienced mom and think certain things but at the end of the day, I feel she was only looking out for the best for her own non-verbal infant in the best way she knew how.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 06-11-2018, 10:15 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Well, I hope she fines a daycare she can trust and not assume babies are being hidden out of sight. Or that something shady is going on.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 06-11-2018, 10:18 AM
hwichlaz's Avatar
hwichlaz hwichlaz is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California
Posts: 1,744
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amberrose3dg View Post
Yeah but what is she gonna do in those 15 minutes? Hide babies in closets?
It may be to clean up messes or to make sure she has no immediate needs to care for like diaper changes etc...
People that are doing shady stuff aren't gonna let you in no matter what.I think she should let her look around and then take her child home. The child will be really upset once mom leaves.
Unstrap them from containment devices. Put away something dangerous....turn off her soaps.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 06-11-2018, 10:18 AM
Cat Herder's Avatar
Cat Herder Cat Herder is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,708
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Well I like a clean home where tripping over toys isn't an issue when I am showing someone the play are. Maybe that is just me.
Me, too. In a perfect world.

Luckily most parents expect a playroom full of children will be in disarray several times a day, at the minimum. Clean and safe is obvious even with toys (and shoes, lately) strewn about.

That is a lot of pressure to put on yourself.
__________________
- Unless otherwise stated, all my posts are personal opinion and worth what you paid for them.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 06-11-2018, 10:20 AM
Snowmom's Avatar
Snowmom Snowmom is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 1,086
Default

Ugh.


Just because a provider doesn't allow unscheduled visits, does NOT automatically mean they must be hiding something.


There are good providers and yes, some bad ones.

Each provider in this industry has their own set of rules and policies. They differ greatly, likely for all good reasons. Having the freedom to choose is a blessing. Finding out your wants and needs within those choices is equally, a blessing.

Neither approach to "the open door policy" is better than the other, just different.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 06-11-2018, 10:22 AM
Cat Herder's Avatar
Cat Herder Cat Herder is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,708
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hwichlaz View Post
Unstrap them from containment devices. Put away something dangerous....turn off her soaps.
They still make soaps?
__________________
- Unless otherwise stated, all my posts are personal opinion and worth what you paid for them.
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 06-11-2018, 10:24 AM
Josiegirl's Avatar
Josiegirl Josiegirl is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Right here
Posts: 8,826
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Well, I hope she fines a daycare she can trust and not assume babies are being hidden out of sight. Or that something shady is going on.
Sometimes it's hard to find that trust when the negative dc news always hits the media fast and furious. And let's face it, infants are the most vulnerable because they have no voice to protect themselves or can't hit kids back like other kids do. That's the main reason I just could never let anyone else take care of my kids. I would never trust anybody enough.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 06-11-2018, 10:24 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

My wife said I should stop, so I hope all the best for you all and hope everything runs well in all of your day cares. It is added pressure but one I happily do, so daycare moms down have to tip toe around the room. Has worked fine for several decades and I don't think we are going to change anytime soon. Be safe and hug a child today.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 06-11-2018, 10:38 AM
Rockgirl's Avatar
Rockgirl Rockgirl is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,771
Default

I do think dcm jumped the gun by calling licensing. But I donít think sheís being unreasonable to expect to occasionally see the daycare space. Especially since it sounds like she was initially told she was welcome to.

Parents come into my daycare room to drop off and pick up their children. Yes, they see the other children in care. They say hello and goodbye to them. Theyíre not plopping down on a rug, hanging out, taking pics, etc. I agree that that would be a problem. Itís in my contract to keep drop off and pick up times short, and they all comply. This is how I run my program. Parents interviewing are told this, and itís up to them to choose me or not. If my own children had been in daycare when they were young, I would have looked for a program being run the same way. I personally wouldnít have enrolled in a program where I couldnít see my children in the daycare space. Thatís just me.

Itís fine that we have our own ways of doing things, and itís fine that each parent will have their own expectations.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 06-11-2018, 10:43 AM
Cat Herder's Avatar
Cat Herder Cat Herder is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,708
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
My wife said I should stop, so I hope all the best for you all and hope everything runs well in all of your day cares. It is added pressure but one I happily do, so daycare moms down have to tip toe around the room. Has worked fine for several decades and I don't think we are going to change anytime soon. Be safe and hug a child today.
I completely understand what you are saying.

It did work well and was commonly expected and understood for many decades. There was a mutual respect. Now we are guilty before being proven innocent.

I had to let go of my pride and privacy to stay in business a tad bit longer. Our regulation is worded: "Parents have the right to go into any area of the home used for child care any time during the home’s operating hours. " Even if the kids are already gone for the day, early. They can come back.

Inspectors go into my bedrooms, bathrooms, closets, attic, sheds and barn. None of which are used for daycare. It is my new normal.
__________________
- Unless otherwise stated, all my posts are personal opinion and worth what you paid for them.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 06-11-2018, 11:54 AM
amberrose3dg's Avatar
amberrose3dg amberrose3dg is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: somewhere
Posts: 1,095
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
I completely understand what you are saying.

It did work well and was commonly expected and understood for many decades. There was a mutual respect. Now we are guilty before being proven innocent.

I had to let go of my pride and privacy to stay in business a tad bit longer. Our regulation is worded: "Parents have the right to go into any area of the home used for child care any time during the homeís operating hours. " Even if the kids are already gone for the day, early. They can come back.

Inspectors go into my bedrooms, bathrooms, closets, attic, sheds and barn. None of which are used for daycare. It is my new normal.
Oh yeah that makes sense. There should be a line between the two somewhere.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 06-11-2018, 12:02 PM
Cat Herder's Avatar
Cat Herder Cat Herder is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,708
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amberrose3dg View Post
Oh yeah that makes sense. There should be a line between the two somewhere.
It's a pendulum swing. Give it time.

People like Jessica Tata caused this.
__________________
- Unless otherwise stated, all my posts are personal opinion and worth what you paid for them.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 06-11-2018, 12:34 PM
Country Kids's Avatar
Country Kids Country Kids is offline
Nature Lover
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,026
Default

Huge news story from my state broke just last week about an in home childcare that wasn't allowing parents in the home.

She talked smooth, had all the credentials, beautiful home, assistants, etc.

Till one of the assistants took pictures of a baby tied to the crib, children being left in the basement all day long, all types of horrors came from this story.

The parents were notified by a letter there was a problem!!! She had been shut down in two other states, she now has packed up and is on the move again.

Parents need to be able access to their children at all times!
__________________
Each day is a fresh start
Never look back on regrets
Live life to the fullest
We only get one shot at this!!
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 06-11-2018, 12:40 PM
Cat Herder's Avatar
Cat Herder Cat Herder is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,708
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Country Kids View Post
Huge news story from my state broke just last week about an in home childcare that wasn't allowing parents in the home.

She talked smooth, had all the credentials, beautiful home, assistants, etc.

Till one of the assistants took pictures of a baby tied to the crib, children being left in the basement all day long, all types of horrors came from this story.

The parents were notified by a letter there was a problem!!! She had been shut down in two other states, she now has packed up and is on the move again.

Parents need to be able access to their children at all times!
But how long should they be allowed to stay?
__________________
- Unless otherwise stated, all my posts are personal opinion and worth what you paid for them.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 06-11-2018, 12:46 PM
amberrose3dg's Avatar
amberrose3dg amberrose3dg is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: somewhere
Posts: 1,095
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
But how long should they be allowed to stay?
Exactly. What if the parent is a bad person. As providers we are stuck in the middle. Parents should check in on their children. They also have to know that we cannot have our attention taken away from the other children in care.i can tell you I know of some scary people that shouldn't be allowed to hang at their children's daycare around other kids just because they are parents.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 06-11-2018, 12:50 PM
Cat Herder's Avatar
Cat Herder Cat Herder is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,708
Default

Was it this story? https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...75cdfa8ad.html
__________________
- Unless otherwise stated, all my posts are personal opinion and worth what you paid for them.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 06-11-2018, 12:51 PM
Country Kids's Avatar
Country Kids Country Kids is offline
Nature Lover
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,026
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
No-different state
__________________
Each day is a fresh start
Never look back on regrets
Live life to the fullest
We only get one shot at this!!
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 06-11-2018, 12:56 PM
Cat Herder's Avatar
Cat Herder Cat Herder is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,708
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Country Kids View Post
No-different state
Ok. I am shocked there is more than one. Both tied into blankets to constrict movement during nap. I hate to see this is becoming a thing. I thought it went away in the 90's.

http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/i...ntify_day.html
__________________
- Unless otherwise stated, all my posts are personal opinion and worth what you paid for them.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 06-11-2018, 01:00 PM
Blackcat31's Avatar
Blackcat31 Blackcat31 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 16,646
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Country Kids View Post
Huge news story from my state broke just last week about an in home childcare that wasn't allowing parents in the home.

She talked smooth, had all the credentials, beautiful home, assistants, etc.

Till one of the assistants took pictures of a baby tied to the crib, children being left in the basement all day long, all types of horrors came from this story.

The parents were notified by a letter there was a problem!!! She had been shut down in two other states, she now has packed up and is on the move again.

Parents need to be able access to their children at all times!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Country Kids View Post
No-different state
Are you referring to the story where the state failed to tell parents why the program was shut down?
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 06-11-2018, 01:01 PM
Snowmom's Avatar
Snowmom Snowmom is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 1,086
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Country Kids View Post
Huge news story from my state broke just last week about an in home childcare that wasn't allowing parents in the home.

She talked smooth, had all the credentials, beautiful home, assistants, etc.

Till one of the assistants took pictures of a baby tied to the crib, children being left in the basement all day long, all types of horrors came from this story.

The parents were notified by a letter there was a problem!!! She had been shut down in two other states, she now has packed up and is on the move again.

Parents need to be able access to their children at all times!
Do you really think if parents had access to her home "at all times" that this person would never have acted in such a way? That would have stopped her?
According to you, she had already had adults there (assistants). She's done it in other states.

There will always be terrible humans. No matter their occupation.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 06-11-2018, 01:04 PM
Blackcat31's Avatar
Blackcat31 Blackcat31 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 16,646
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
Ok. I am shocked there is more than one. Both tied into blankets to constrict movement during nap. I hate to see this is becoming a thing. I thought it went away in the 90's.

http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/i...ntify_day.html
Same story ....
https://www.opb.org/news/article/por...yside-sprouts/


We have something similar happening here....
DHS issues a ton of violations in some serious areas and yet provider is still open and operating

Last edited by Blackcat31; 06-11-2018 at 01:06 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 06-11-2018, 01:06 PM
amberrose3dg's Avatar
amberrose3dg amberrose3dg is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: somewhere
Posts: 1,095
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
Ok. I am shocked there is more than one. Both tied into blankets to constrict movement during nap. I hate to see this is becoming a thing. I thought it went away in the 90's.

http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/i...ntify_day.html
That is scary
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 06-11-2018, 01:08 PM
amberrose3dg's Avatar
amberrose3dg amberrose3dg is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: somewhere
Posts: 1,095
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmom View Post
Do you really think if parents had access to her home "at all times" that this person would never have acted in such a way? That would have stopped her?
According to you, she had already had adults there (assistants). She's done it in other states.

There will always be terrible humans. No matter their occupation.
Most daycares dont allow parents to come in and hang out at nap time. The kids wont sleep. She clearly thought it was ok that she did it in front of assistants.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 06-11-2018, 01:18 PM
Country Kids's Avatar
Country Kids Country Kids is offline
Nature Lover
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,026
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Same story ....
https://www.opb.org/news/article/por...yside-sprouts/


We have something similar happening here....
DHS issues a ton of violations in some serious areas and yet provider is still open and operating
Thank you for posting this-I don't know how to link stories. This is a very, very scary situation and our state is implementing tons of new rules and we think because of this story is why.

Some new rules:

No swaddling infants
No sleep sacks (I think)
Not being in a stroller, swing, saucer for longer than 20 minutes. I believe I also heard high chair is being added to this.

Then I heard something about infants not being in childcare before three months but not sure what that was about.
__________________
Each day is a fresh start
Never look back on regrets
Live life to the fullest
We only get one shot at this!!
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 06-11-2018, 01:21 PM
Country Kids's Avatar
Country Kids Country Kids is offline
Nature Lover
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,026
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
But how long should they be allowed to stay?
My parents come in, drop off and at pick up come into the preschool room, kids get shoes, coats, etc and then out the door-total time 10 min if that?

This way I'm always present with the kiddo's and not having to leave and answer the door, go back have the kiddo get ready and then bring back to the parent.
__________________
Each day is a fresh start
Never look back on regrets
Live life to the fullest
We only get one shot at this!!
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 06-11-2018, 01:28 PM
Cat Herder's Avatar
Cat Herder Cat Herder is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,708
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Country Kids View Post
Some new rules:

No swaddling infants
No sleep sacks (I think)
Not being in a stroller, swing, saucer for longer than 20 minutes. I believe I also heard high chair is being added to this.
Those have been law here for a long while. The 20 minutes applies to cribs, too. Infants are to be placed awake on backs, no blankets, no toys. If still awake after 20 minutes, they are to be placed on the rug for free play.

Blanket sleepers (footed pj's), with legs, are allowed and recommended.
__________________
- Unless otherwise stated, all my posts are personal opinion and worth what you paid for them.
Reply With Quote
  #81  
Old 06-11-2018, 01:31 PM
Country Kids's Avatar
Country Kids Country Kids is offline
Nature Lover
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,026
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
Those have been law here for a long while. The 20 minutes applies to cribs, too. Infants are to be placed awake on backs, no blankets, no toys. If still awake after 20 minutes, they are to be placed on the rug for free play.

Blanket sleepers, with legs, are allowed and recommended.
So what happens if you go on a walk that last longer than 20 min? Our walks are generally 30 min-45.
__________________
Each day is a fresh start
Never look back on regrets
Live life to the fullest
We only get one shot at this!!
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 06-11-2018, 01:36 PM
Blackcat31's Avatar
Blackcat31 Blackcat31 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 16,646
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Country Kids View Post
So what happens if you go on a walk that last longer than 20 min? Our walks are generally 30 min-45.
Then you wake baby... or don't go for a walk until baby has napped.

Infants disrupt the flow of the regular day and that's just the way it is. Infants have a specific set of needs and those needs trump everyone else's needs.

Hence the reason many providers no longer accept infants.
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 06-11-2018, 01:45 PM
Country Kids's Avatar
Country Kids Country Kids is offline
Nature Lover
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,026
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Then you wake baby... or don't go for a walk until baby has napped.

Infants disrupt the flow of the regular day and that's just the way it is. Infants have a specific set of needs and those needs trump everyone else's needs.

Hence the reason many providers no longer accept infants.
Has nothing to do with the baby napping-they do not want them in a stroller for longer than 20 min (awake or not).
__________________
Each day is a fresh start
Never look back on regrets
Live life to the fullest
We only get one shot at this!!
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 06-11-2018, 01:48 PM
Cat Herder's Avatar
Cat Herder Cat Herder is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,708
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Country Kids View Post
So what happens if you go on a walk that last longer than 20 min? Our walks are generally 30 min-45.
We must stay within the fenced (inspected/approved) area unless we have a very detailed, signed, field trip form from each parent. Even to play with sidewalk chalk or hunt Easter eggs in the front yard.

Going for a twenty minute walk would require two extra adults (because of ages, needs), a phone call to licensing, an activity, curriculum goals for each age group and 6 signed permission forms.

It would not be worth it for me. More likely I'd have DH (registered sub) stay with youngers and do a preschool only trip.

Any infant in a stroller would be required to be removed after 20 minutes. The field trip planning would have to take this into account and plan a stop or two for large muscle movement and social/emotional interaction before return to stroller. Pop tents and play hut tunnels are great for this purpose.
__________________
- Unless otherwise stated, all my posts are personal opinion and worth what you paid for them.
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 06-11-2018, 01:57 PM
Blackcat31's Avatar
Blackcat31 Blackcat31 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 16,646
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Country Kids View Post
Has nothing to do with the baby napping-they do not want them in a stroller for longer than 20 min (awake or not).


Oh yeah that's right..... I forgot CHs state is more rigid about that... given her regulations, I wouldn't even bother taking the kids off site. Too much work for too little gained.

My state dictates only where infants sleep not how long or how little they can be in any type of baby equipment.
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 06-11-2018, 02:10 PM
Cat Herder's Avatar
Cat Herder Cat Herder is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,708
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Oh yeah that's right..... I forgot CHs state is more rigid about that... given her regulations, I wouldn't even bother taking the kids off site. Too much work for too little gained.

My state dictates only where infants sleep not how long or how little they can be in any type of baby equipment.
It is because of the number of places that were strapping difficult or violent kids in high chairs and giving them one cheerio every 5 minutes - for hours- to keep from having to term them or deal with the fall out.

The ones that used the cribs the majority of the day to keep from having to disinfect toys or prevent injuries.

The ones leaving kids strapped in carseats, bouncy seats or exersaucers in front of TV's the majority of the day.

We saw so many preschool kids without basic motor skills, low cognitive function and limited verbal function from years of this. It was a serious problem.
__________________
- Unless otherwise stated, all my posts are personal opinion and worth what you paid for them.
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 06-11-2018, 03:23 PM
racemom's Avatar
racemom racemom is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: nebraska
Posts: 928
Default

I just wanted to say I love how we can have this discussion about something a lot of us have different views on without anyone getting upset. Some message boards would have corroded into yelling/name calling and people leaving or being band. I feel like this is a group of friends sharing their experiences.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 06-11-2018, 04:15 PM
hwichlaz's Avatar
hwichlaz hwichlaz is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California
Posts: 1,744
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amberrose3dg View Post
Exactly. What if the parent is a bad person. As providers we are stuck in the middle. Parents should check in on their children. They also have to know that we cannot have our attention taken away from the other children in care.i can tell you I know of some scary people that shouldn't be allowed to hang at their children's daycare around other kids just because they are parents.
No one is suggesting they be left alone with the kids. What can they do with you watching that they canít do by walking past you into the daycare room uninvited?
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 06-11-2018, 04:25 PM
Blackcat31's Avatar
Blackcat31 Blackcat31 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 16,646
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by racemom View Post
I just wanted to say I love how we can have this discussion about something a lot of us have different views on without anyone getting upset. Some message boards would have corroded into yelling/name calling and people leaving or being band. I feel like this is a group of friends sharing their experiences.


I like these conversations for that reason too!

I also like reading/learning about the different perspectives!
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 06-11-2018, 09:16 PM
mommyneedsadayoff's Avatar
mommyneedsadayoff mommyneedsadayoff is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,657
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hwichlaz View Post
No one is suggesting they be left alone with the kids. What can they do with you watching that they can’t do by walking past you into the daycare room uninvited?
I am pretty sure Meeko still posts occassionally, but there are some great threads in the archive about having parents around the kids, even supervised. I cannot find the exact thread, but the father of her dcg ended up going to prison I think for pedophilia and molesting his daughter. I remember reading it and feeling how haunted she felt by something she thought was so innocent. I guess he "dropped in" in often and seemed very normal and nice.

There are a LOT of things that can be done even if notleft unsupervised. Not just to the children, but to the LONE adult in charge of a vulnerable population. We need to be keeping our own protection in mind as well, as we are the first line of defense for the kids.
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 06-12-2018, 03:07 AM
amberrose3dg's Avatar
amberrose3dg amberrose3dg is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: somewhere
Posts: 1,095
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mommyneedsadayoff View Post
I am pretty sure Meeko still posts occassionally, but there are some great threads in the archive about having parents around the kids, even supervised. I cannot find the exact thread, but the father of her dcg ended up going to prison I think for pedophilia and molesting his daughter. I remember reading it and feeling how haunted she felt by something she thought was so innocent. I guess he "dropped in" in often and seemed very normal and nice.

There are a LOT of things that can be done even if notleft unsupervised. Not just to the children, but to the LONE adult in charge of a vulnerable population. We need to be keeping our own protection in mind as well, as we are the first line of defense for the kids.

This is what I meant. Nannyde just posted about a dad filming the kids. I cannot think of a good reason a parent should be hanging all day at the daycare. If they dont have to work maybe that time would or been better spent with their child at home. I know my littles like to show off when there is a new adult. Just last week during our fire marshal inspection it was chaotic and I have an assistant. Some of you guys work alone. I know i encourage parent interaction but at the same time there is a lot to consider. I'm just saying there should be a balance instead of small home daycares having to watch parents too.
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 06-12-2018, 09:53 AM
daycarediva's Avatar
daycarediva daycarediva is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 11,202
Default

OP- I am a licensed daycare provider, but I would NEVER enroll my child in an area I didn't SEE personally, daily. That's just me. I know of three providers with basement daycares. Two are perfectly wonderful people and the third is a dirty over ratio nightmare.

My state regulations say that parents must have access at any time to their CHILD. Not the space. What state are you in?

My space is a walkout basement, but parents come in/exit through the door and into the classroom. I ask that they not leave the entry area for sanitary reasons, but they can SEE the kids.

If a parent was spending any amount of time here I would speak up. Pack kiddo up, say goodbye. I cover it at interviews.

I would NOT be comfortable with a parent spending time with my child. I didn't vet this parent, the parent has no background check, and who knows what type of person they are, so as a provider, I would ask that you BF in a separate space as well.

I realize that you're new to DC- but going straight to licensing is similar to having an issue with the homework the teacher gives out, and calling the principal. First stop should have been your provider. I would terminate care immediately for lack of trust.
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 06-13-2018, 07:13 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
But how long should they be allowed to stay?
As a parent could I come in and have lunch?
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 06-13-2018, 07:46 AM
Cat Herder's Avatar
Cat Herder Cat Herder is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,708
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
As a parent could I come in and have lunch?
Yes. That would be fun.

Especially if you brought a food or gave me a recipe beforehand with a cultural significance from your home and shared something about it with the kids.

I would have to get signed permission forms from the other parents, but they would love it.
__________________
- Unless otherwise stated, all my posts are personal opinion and worth what you paid for them.
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 06-13-2018, 08:29 AM
nannyde's Avatar
nannyde nannyde is offline
All powerful, all knowing daycare whisperer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 7,234
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
As a parent could I come in and have lunch?
No but you could pick up early for lunch and then take the rest of the day off to spend with your child. Schedule your lunch trips on days you get off early.
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 06-13-2018, 08:30 AM
Country Kids's Avatar
Country Kids Country Kids is offline
Nature Lover
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,026
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
As a parent could I come in and have lunch?

Since I'm in the STARS program, my parents are encouraged to come in and participate in my program. Parties, story time, sharing family culture, meals, etc. Parent involvement is very encouraged.
__________________
Each day is a fresh start
Never look back on regrets
Live life to the fullest
We only get one shot at this!!
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 06-13-2018, 08:53 AM
Cat Herder's Avatar
Cat Herder Cat Herder is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,708
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Country Kids View Post
Since I'm in the STARS program, my parents are encouraged to come in and participate in my program. Parties, story time, sharing family culture, meals, etc. Parent involvement is very encouraged.
Same.

The key here is a scheduled time, pre-approved by licensing with written curriculum goals and signed permission forms.

Kids not old enough to participate would stay in the playroom with my sub for the duration of lunch in the dining area, 12:00-12:30.

Child would leave with parent at the conclusion.
__________________
- Unless otherwise stated, all my posts are personal opinion and worth what you paid for them.
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 06-13-2018, 10:07 AM
Play Care's Avatar
Play Care Play Care is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 6,609
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by daycarediva View Post
OP- I am a licensed daycare provider, but I would NEVER enroll my child in an area I didn't SEE personally, daily. That's just me. I know of three providers with basement daycares. Two are perfectly wonderful people and the third is a dirty over ratio nightmare.

My state regulations say that parents must have access at any time to their CHILD. Not the space. What state are you in?

My space is a walkout basement, but parents come in/exit through the door and into the classroom. I ask that they not leave the entry area for sanitary reasons, but they can SEE the kids.

If a parent was spending any amount of time here I would speak up. Pack kiddo up, say goodbye. I cover it at interviews.

I would NOT be comfortable with a parent spending time with my child. I didn't vet this parent, the parent has no background check, and who knows what type of person they are, so as a provider, I would ask that you BF in a separate space as well.

I realize that you're new to DC- but going straight to licensing is similar to having an issue with the homework the teacher gives out, and calling the principal. First stop should have been your provider. I would terminate care immediately for lack of trust.
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 06-13-2018, 10:26 AM
Annalee's Avatar
Annalee Annalee is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,164
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
Same.

The key here is a scheduled time, pre-approved by licensing with written curriculum goals and signed permission forms.

Kids not old enough to participate would stay in the playroom with my sub for the duration of lunch in the dining area, 12:00-12:30.

Child would leave with parent at the conclusion.
In the new rules, we have to have a documented monthly activity for parent engagement
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 06-13-2018, 11:25 AM
racemom's Avatar
racemom racemom is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: nebraska
Posts: 928
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amberrose3dg View Post

This is what I meant. Nannyde just posted about a dad filming the kids. I cannot think of a good reason a parent should be hanging all day at the daycare. If they dont have to work maybe that time would or been better spent with their child at home. I know my littles like to show off when there is a new adult. Just last week during our fire marshal inspection it was chaotic and I have an assistant. Some of you guys work alone. I know i encourage parent interaction but at the same time there is a lot to consider. I'm just saying there should be a balance instead of small home daycares having to watch parents too.
I think people are interpreting OP differently, I didn't think she wanted to hang out in the area, I thought she wanted to walk dck downstairs for drop off only and was told no she had to text 15 minutes ahead of time. Breastfeeding was a different issue, but I may be reading it wrong. Hanging out with the group is an entirely different situation than coming in for drop off.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
access, breastfeeding in daycare, false allegations, interrupting, interrupting - playtime, interruptions, misunderstanding, mixed age group, unreasonable parental expectations

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Kicking Child Out of Daycare Unregistered Parents and Guardians Forum 57 02-14-2018 10:33 AM
Subsidy Card...The Future Heidi Daycare Center and Family Home Forum 31 01-11-2014 04:22 PM
Can A Complaint Be Filed? Candy Daycare Center and Family Home Forum 11 02-15-2013 03:38 PM
Payment When Provider Is Out Sick Unregistered Parents and Guardians Forum 18 02-16-2009 01:07 PM
Question from a mom about provider driving Unregistered Daycare Center and Family Home Forum 6 01-06-2009 09:24 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:35 AM.



Daycare.com         Find A Daycare         List Your Daycare         Toys & Products                 About Us

Daycare.com
Please read our Disclaimer before continuing.

Topics pertain mainly to the following States:

Alabama Alaska Arizona Arkansas California Colorado Connecticut Delaware District of Columbia Florida Georgia Hawaii Idaho Illinois Indiana Iowa Kansas Kentucky Louisiana Maine Maryland Massachusetts Michigan Minnesota Mississippi Missouri Montana Nebraska Nevada New Hampshire New Jersey New Mexico New York North Carolina North Dakota Ohio Oklahoma Oregon Pennsylvania Rhode Island South Carolina South Dakota Tennessee Texas Utah Vermont Virginia Washington West Virginia Wisconsin Wyoming